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Hope and charge!
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[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!"
] |
>
Go, Fani, go!!!
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!"
] |
>
As an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!"
] |
>
I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down."
] |
>
In GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker."
] |
>
And so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect"
] |
>
When did we do that?
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws."
] |
>
Nixon though arguably Wilson.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?"
] |
>
Yeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson."
] |
>
Doesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at "Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical."
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators."
] |
>
Still amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\""
] |
>
The fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him."
] |
>
No, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see."
] |
>
Surprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable."
] |
>
The first perhaps, but not the last.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are."
] |
>
The walls are closing in for Trump
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last."
] |
>
I mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump"
] |
>
It seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently"
] |
>
No.
Nothing is happening against TFG.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all."
] |
>
That would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG."
] |
>
Can’t in this state.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?"
] |
>
I hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.
I really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state."
] |
>
She has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody.
Trump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day.
imo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him.
On top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?
Bottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)"
] |
>
Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody.
Bannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.
What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?
Washington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”."
] |
>
Yeah yeah yeah
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6."
] |
>
Now this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah"
] |
>
Yuuup
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)"
] |
>
It would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup"
] |
>
my favorite word in that sentence is
FIRST
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest."
] |
>
i highly doubt it
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST"
] |
>
Nope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it"
] |
>
No, because no one will indict him
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual"
] |
>
Betteridge’s Law
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual",
">\n\nNo, because no one will indict him"
] |
>
Nevertheless...
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual",
">\n\nNo, because no one will indict him",
">\n\nBetteridge’s Law"
] |
>
He’s a rich white politician, he’ll never be indicted for anything
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual",
">\n\nNo, because no one will indict him",
">\n\nBetteridge’s Law",
">\n\nNevertheless..."
] |
>
The fuck's that got to do with this?
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual",
">\n\nNo, because no one will indict him",
">\n\nBetteridge’s Law",
">\n\nNevertheless...",
">\n\nHe’s a rich white politician, he’ll never be indicted for anything"
] |
>
|
[
"It was be ironic if the misogynistic, racist, twice impeached, disgraced former president is brought to justice down by a black female. \nI’d like to see that happen.",
">\n\nWell first he has to get convicted, and second, the Georgia Governor has to not pardon or commute his sentence.",
">\n\nI detest both men, but I think there’s a fair chance Kemp would let Trump rot.",
">\n\n“Georgia is one of nine states in the U.S. with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons.” - Wikipedia",
">\n\nThen I think it would be even more unlikely that he skates.",
">\n\nThis is what upsets a lot of ppl. If Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State. Now we hear the Fulton County DA can seek an indictment w/o waiting for the Judge.",
">\n\n\nIf Trump was an ordinary citizen, he would have been indicted over a year ago based on the phone call to the Sec of State.\n\nEverybody likes to say that, but it's simply not true. They've had a grand jury examining evidence for months. The call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time of the call and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended for Raffensberger to commit election fraud, when his words technically said otherwise. \nI imagine the House Committee report will be invaluable in demonstrating that Trump knew he was lying on that phone call. Rushing a prosecution before those hearings concluded would have been foolhardy.",
">\n\n\nThe call is not enough without a preponderance of evidence attesting to Trump's mental state at the time\n\nEvidence of Trump's mental state? Like wtf? There's no reason to suspect Trump wasn't of sound mind when he made that call, why would the prosecution need to gather evidence regarding his mental state? \nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call. Especially when paired with all the publicly avaliable Trump's unproven claims of stolen elections - as if the context of a incumbent struggling for a second term and abusing his presudential position to influence election officials wasn't enough already. On top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \nSo either we're gonna keep making excuses why an attempt to overturn American democracy has gone unpunished, or it's time to finally face the fact that Trump is above the law, and unless the American public actively demands justice, nothings going to be done, and Trump won't live to see the inside of a courthouse, much less a conviction.",
">\n\n\nAll the evidence prosecution needed are right there in that phone call.\n\nWhere did you go to law school? \nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent. It is the prosecution's burden of proof to demonstrate that Trump meant \"feloniously fabricate 11,780 votes that don't exist,\" when technically his words said \"my sources tell me that thousands of my votes were illegally discarded and thousands of Biden votes were illegally created, so I need you to investigate until you find enough of these fraudulent votes, at least 11,780, to show that the election was stolen from me.\" \nOf course we all know what he really meant. But the law is very literal, and the prosecution is required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he meant something different from what he said. If anyone on that jury suspects that Trump really believed there was ballot-stuffing in Georgia, then the prosecution fails to prove criminal intent, and therefore he cannot be convicted of solicitation of election fraud. \nI wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Donald J. Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory that served his ego. \n\nOn top of all that, any further evidence they might have needed could've easily been gathered in the past two years. \n\nAnd that is exactly what they have been doing. There have been grand juries examining evidence, gathering testimony and communications records from various election officials, lawmakers, people in Trump's orbit, etc., and, considering the timing of their recent conclusion, I presume they have also been examining the House Committee hearings, which make the strongest case so far that Trump knew he lost Georgia. I believe they are also looking at crimes beyond the phone call, related to fraud, intimidation, etc. \n\nwe're gonna keep making excuses \n\nNobody is making excuses to not prosecute Trump. I am explaining the legal steps they have been taking to prosecute him. \nEverything Georgia has been doing signals that they are serious about building a strong case to prosecute Trump and, probably, others in his orbit. You don't impanel grand juries and subpoena congressmen and presidential advisors just for funsies. \nNote that I'm not saying they definitely will indict, and I'm not saying \"the walls are closing in, it's really gonna happen this time.\" There is still a possibility that that the Grand Jury has concluded \"it's obvious Trump is guilty as fuck, but the evidence is ambiguous/circumstantial enough that it may not be possible to secure a conviction under the law as it is written. Given what we know, and what legal scholars have argued in various articles, I think it's more likely they will move forward with indictments. \nApparently under Georgia law, the next step is to impanel another Grand Jury with indictment powers. I don't know how long that process takes. Again, I'm not saying that Georgia will definitely indict: I don't have enough information to make this claim. But I am saying that they have done everything possible to get this case to third base with the bases loaded and a strong hitter at bat, so suggesting they are not serious about trying to hold Trump accountable is verifiably incorrect.",
">\n\n\nThe Georgia law re: criminal solicitation of election fraud requires proof of intent\n\nWhen did I say that prosecutors should not bother proving Trump had an intent to falsy election results? And why did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent? Maybe because you realized your original post made no sense?\n\nThere have been grand juries examining evidence\n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nwhy did you suddenly switch from taking about Trump's 'mental state' to discussing his intent?\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent. In this case, it is crucial for the prosecution to prove that Trump's state of mind, at the time of the phone call, was the felonious intention to willfully solicit a fabricated vote count. \n\nJan 6th commite has also conducted an investigation into a much more complicated matter. It resulted in a criminal referral. Two years after the fact. So I think my comment still stands, Trump won't live to see the inside of a courtroom.\n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. The House Committee has reached a conclusion that Trump could be charged with at least 4 crimes, and has released all their evidence. The Georgia grand jury has reached a conclusion that has not yet been released, but I think it's likely it has gathered enough to justify criminal state level indictments. \nI'm not going to say that indictments are definitely imminent, but the conclusions of these two major investigations suggest that we are significantly closer to, not farther from, the likelihood of seeing Trump in a courtroom.",
">\n\n\nThese are both the same thing. A defendant's \"mental state\" is a legal term for establishing (among other things), whether the defendant had criminal intent.\n\nThat's my mistake then, you were using such a broad term, I had no idea you wers referring to actual intent. I really didn't expect anyone would quest Trump's intent considering its blatantly obvious from the contents of his phone call, especially in the context of all his public statements regarding unbased claims of stolen elections. \nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering without even an indicement, yet here we are. \n\nThe DOJ, the House Committee, and the Georgia AG have been working overtime for 2 years to gather a preponderance of evidence that Trump (and his cronies) behaved criminally in various ways. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \nI'll add that it's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months after Trump organized a coup to overthrow the US government. \nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\nIt took all this time and effort just to reach a conclusion that Trump 'could be charged'.\nThat would be so completely laughable if the continuation of democracy itself wasn't in question.",
">\n\n\nWith so many evidence avaliable it certainly doesn't seem like a case that would require over two years of evidence gathering \n\nThe evidence is available because of the two years of evidence gathering. \nA lot of that time involves the legal battles of procuring the evidence in the first place. For example the Georgia grand jury issued a subpoena to Senator Lindsey Graham in early July, and he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court, which denied his appeal, and he finally had to testify in late November. So he was able to delay for almost half a year, and in the meantime Georgia prosecutors had to prepare and defend their subpoena in court every step of the way. Practically every bit of evidence takes extensive preparation to justify demanding it, then to negotiate and/or battle over how much they can legally demand, when and how the evidence will be provided, and under what limitations. Trump and his cronies are notorious for gumming up the process in appeals which delay every step by months or years. \nMy understanding is that the Georgia grand jury looked at far more than just Trump and a single phone call. They were looking at \"a multi-state, coordinated plan by the Trump Campaign to influence the results of the November 2020 election in Georgia and elsewhere.\" The phone call was one piece of the puzzle, but there were other phone calls by Trump and his allies, false statements made by the Trump campaign in Georgia legislative meetings, several people signing fake elector certificates, attempts to pressure/intimidate election workers, breaches of election equipment, etc. That's a lot. It takes time. Two years is actually pretty fast for something of this magnitude. \n\nAnd that's amounted to nothing at all so far. Again, not even an indicement. \n\nSo far. The DOJ case is the largest and most widespread investigation in DOJ history, with the largest number of defendants of any criminal investigation. This takes time. \n\nit's entirely bizzare that a special house commite had to be formed just to conduct an investigation that DoJ could've conducted in the first six months\n\nThe DOJ was investigating during the first six months. In the first six months the DOJ identified, arrested, and charged hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. In the meantime they were raiding Giuliani's house and confiscating phones and devices from him and other Trump lawyers and advisors. In the meantime they were preparing Seditious Conspiracy prosecutions for Proud Boys. In the meantime they were building up justification to raid Mar a Lago, and then fighting in court to get access to the documents they confiscated. In the meantime they were fighting in court to enforce subpoenas and to overcome executive privilege claims that were obstructing their investigation. \nThe DOJ has limited resources and only so many prosecutors to go around. Reportedly the DOJ has had to \"borrow\" state prosecutors just to keep up with the massive amount of work this investigation requires. So it's a good thing the House Committee conducted their own investigation, as it procured shitloads of evidence and testimony that the DOJ didn't have to devote resources to. And now that the DOJ has the House report, they have a new batch of leads to follow, which is evident from the new round of subpoenas Smith issued in the last few weeks. \n\nYet, two years after the fact, countless evidence were gathered all pointing to an unmistakable conclusion that was apparent from the very start, Trump perposefuly organized a coup, lied about election fraud and tried to falsfy election results.\n\nIf you think building a case of this magnitude should be quick, I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to give you a sense of the monumental amount of work involved, and the monumental amount of work that it takes to prepare and battle each and every step of the overall monumental work. The fact that it's only been two years and several of these investigations are already concluding and appear to be on the cusp of indictments, is actually pretty fast, when you consider the massive number of people and the wide range of alleged crimes involved.",
">\n\nWho knows but lets go already!!",
">\n\nIt'll be like smashing a champagne bottle against his thick skull.",
">\n\nSatisfyingly squelchy?",
">\n\nShe needs to hire heavy security if she does, given how unhinged his fanclub is.",
">\n\nThat’s what worries me. And not just her— basically anyone who goes after or even speaks out against Trump. I’d be scared to sleep at night or go pretty much anywhere…",
">\n\nTreat them as terrorists. Instant death.",
">\n\nWhen it comes to Trump, the word indictment has lost all meaning. Impeachment, criminal, fraud, President…All lost their meaning. \nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked",
">\n\n\nPansy ass America is what we are, letting these criminals run unchecked\n\nFor a bunch of people who want to let criminals run unchecked, rhe DOJ, Georgia, and the House Committee have been mounting some pretty damn huge and aggressive investigations. It's almost as if they're working their asses off so they can stop these criminals from running unchecked.",
">\n\nYes, next question.\nI may be biased in my opinion, because I voted for Fani Willis to be my county's DA.",
">\n\n*bated",
">\n\nI hope so. He needs to be taken down.",
">\n\nCould be, might be, possible, soon, never, lol yeah right. \nMoney in mouth, but it’s cheap talk and what not.",
">\n\nHe’s in so much trouble! Article #1,980,420.",
">\n\nHes really gonna get it now! Just you wait! This time its different!",
">\n\nHope and charge!",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nAs an Atlanta resident it would be so so sweet if the Fulton DA ends up being the one that takes him down.",
">\n\nI’ll believe it when I see it. I’m in the camp of nothing is going to happen to this orange fucker.",
">\n\nIn GEORGIA? This woman has ovaries of steel. Much respect",
">\n\nAnd so what then? He was a president and the US decided long ago presidents are allowed to be 4 year dictators immune from laws.",
">\n\nWhen did we do that?",
">\n\nNixon though arguably Wilson.",
">\n\nYeah. I don't think that's how that works. Ford pardoning Nixon was dumb, but they thought it was the right move for the country. But regardless of that happening, I don't think most people agree that they're immune from prosecution, or dictators.",
">\n\nDoesn't matter what you think most people agree or don't. The supreme court has beat around the bush on this issue multiple times always ending at \"Qualified immunity isn't full immunity because then that would look hypocritical.\"",
">\n\nStill amazes me with all these cut throat lawyers everywhere able to sue for the things they do….we haven’t found one that’s able to take one of the many obviously illegal things this clown has done during his term and make a winning case against him.",
">\n\nThe fact that the Grand Jury report is likely to be released next week makes it less likely. But we’ll see.",
">\n\nNo, I don't believe he'll ever be indicted or held accountable.",
">\n\nSurprised we’re still clamoring for a first at this but here we are.",
">\n\nThe first perhaps, but not the last.",
">\n\nThe walls are closing in for Trump",
">\n\nI mean the fucking AG isn’t doing it anytime soon apparently",
">\n\nIt seems like he isn’t getting indicted at all.",
">\n\nNo.\nNothing is happening against TFG.",
">\n\nThat would be great but won't Kemp just pardon him?",
">\n\nCan’t in this state.",
">\n\nI hope not. She should wait until DOJ has brought the indictment so Trump is in federal custody. Trying to execute an interstate extradition will just invite DeSantis fuckery.\nI really hope she is coordinating with Smith on the prosecution roadmap. They should be acting in harmony (and yes, right wing conspiracy theorists, such coordination is perfectly appropriate/common in complex multilevel prosecutions)",
">\n\nShe has no reason to coordinate with SC’s office. Even if he’s ever in federal custody, and that’s a huge IF, it won’t be for years. Bannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \nTrump may face a federal trial. He may face two. But the prelims and the appeals and the appeals of the appeals, on every single court decision, will almost certainly protect him until his dying day. \nimo the only custody we’ll ever see is when they agree to let him ride down to some place and be booked. Then he’ll ride right back to the beach motel. Same goes for Georgia. Even if he’s convicted in GA, he’ll avoid incarceration for years awaiting appeals. Then the Pardons Board will decide it’s too expensive and dangerous to house him. \nOn top of all that, there’s jury nullification. What are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail? What are the chances all the jurors won’t fear for their life if they convict?\nBottom line: House arrest at the beach motel, charging people to show up at their wedding reception, is imo the best case scenario for Trump “justice”.",
">\n\n\nBannon was convicted in an open and shut contempt case, and he’s still not in custody. \n\nBannon was taken into custody when he was indicted, so this example does not support your argument. He arrived at his arraignment in handcuffs.\n\nWhat are the chances that any group of 12 Americans won’t have one person who says they don’t care about evidence, a prez shouldn’t go to jail?\n\nWashington D.C. only gave Trump 5% of the vote in 2020. That was before January 6.",
">\n\nYeah yeah yeah",
">\n\nNow this is the type of competition I can get behind - The Great Race to indict!!!! (Includes a free trip to MaraLardo)",
">\n\nYuuup",
">\n\nIt would be a high honor. Yuge. The bigliest.",
">\n\nmy favorite word in that sentence is\nFIRST",
">\n\ni highly doubt it",
">\n\nNope. Trump is not going to get indicted or charged with anything. If he is, he'll find a way to get out of it as usual",
">\n\nNo, because no one will indict him",
">\n\nBetteridge’s Law",
">\n\nNevertheless...",
">\n\nHe’s a rich white politician, he’ll never be indicted for anything",
">\n\nThe fuck's that got to do with this?"
] |
Treason because she won the election.
|
[] |
>
Treason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election."
] |
>
She's the real president of Belarus.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can."
] |
>
Legitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus."
] |
>
Yeah, he probably saw the real results and thought "Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like" and switched the names.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote."
] |
>
Jan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a "farce and a show".
Tsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.
Following a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.
Tsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.
"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice," Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.
She said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.
The BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.
"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people," the General Prosecutor's Office said.
A day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.
His arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.
Rights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.
Belarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names."
] |
>
"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo"
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money."
] |
>
Saves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\""
] |
>
WTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed."
] |
>
Which is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus."
] |
>
You've meant to say "dictator", right?
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus"
] |
>
Yeah, same thing in this case
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?"
] |
>
no, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case"
] |
>
Watch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president."
] |
>
Not that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role."
] |
>
*legitimate President
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.",
">\n\nNot that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L"
] |
>
Treason? Like selling out your country’s sovereignty in exchange for foreign military support to keep you in power?
I think we know who should be on trial here.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.",
">\n\nNot that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L",
">\n\n*legitimate President"
] |
>
Lukashenko was bogus long before this invasion.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.",
">\n\nNot that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L",
">\n\n*legitimate President",
">\n\nTreason? Like selling out your country’s sovereignty in exchange for foreign military support to keep you in power?\nI think we know who should be on trial here."
] |
>
For those looking for that same old Russia Classic flavor and fewer calories. Try Russia Light Belarus. Same great flavor, 1.21% the calories.
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.",
">\n\nNot that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L",
">\n\n*legitimate President",
">\n\nTreason? Like selling out your country’s sovereignty in exchange for foreign military support to keep you in power?\nI think we know who should be on trial here.",
">\n\nLukashenko was bogus long before this invasion."
] |
>
|
[
"Treason because she won the election.",
">\n\nTreason against autocrat? Not by western standard. She was smart to leave Belarus while she can.",
">\n\nShe's the real president of Belarus.",
">\n\nLegitimately, with identified unique ballots she had over 80% of the vote, lukafuckshow had less than 10 if I remember correctly. Then he stated he had 84% of the vote.",
">\n\nYeah, he probably saw the real results and thought \"Oh so that's what a fair election result looks like\" and switched the names.",
">\n\n\nJan 17 (Reuters) - Belarus put exiled opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia on treason charges on Tuesday, in what the outspoken critic of veteran leader Alexander Lukashenko said would be a \"farce and a show\".\nTsikhanouskaya, 40, fled Belarus after running against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential election which was followed by mass protests over alleged electoral fraud. She faces a possible jail term of up to 15 years.\nFollowing a crackdown on protesters, she became the head of an opposition-in-exile and denounced the election after Lukashenko, in power since 1994, declared himself the winner.\nTsikhanouskaya, who now lives in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, told Reuters in the Swiss resort of Davos that she did not expect the trial to be fair.\n\"In Belarus there are no honest trials. We live in absolute lawlessness in our country so tomorrow's trial will be a farce and a show but not real justice,\" Tsikhanouskaya said on Monday in an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum.\nShe said she had asked for the necessary documents from the court-appointed lawyer, but had not received anything.\nThe BelTa state news agency said the trial had started on Tuesday morning. Tsikhanouskaya and several others were to be tried on charges of treason and attempting to seize power, the court said before the trial.\n\"Tsikhanouskaya, while on the territory of the Republic of Lithuania, proclaimed herself the winner of the last election... and the only national leader elected by the Belarusian people,\" the General Prosecutor's Office said.\nA day before the trial was due to begin, Belarus brought new criminal charges against Tsikhanouskaya's jailed husband, a 44-year-old video blogger, who was arrested in 2020 while attempting to run for office against Lukashenko himself.\nHis arrest prompted Tsikhanouskaya to run for office in his place despite having no public profile, and she was allowed onto the ballot.\nRights activists estimate about 1,500 people are in jail in Belarus on politically motivated charges. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia who has been in power since 1994, is a pariah in the West and a close ally of Russia.\nBelarus also put rights activist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Ales Byalyatski, and two others, on trial this month on charges of financing protests and smuggling money. They could face from seven to 12 years in jail on charges of financing protests and smuggling money.",
">\n\n\"Hey I know you won the election fairly, but I already jailed your husband for running against me sooooo\"",
">\n\nSaves Putin the trouble after Belarus is annexed.",
">\n\nWTF with Reuters? She's not an opposition leader, she's lawfully elected the President of Belarus.",
">\n\nWhich is still an opposition to the current de-facto ruller of Belarus",
">\n\nYou've meant to say \"dictator\", right?",
">\n\nYeah, same thing in this case",
">\n\nno, it would be more technically correct -and better form - to respect the fact that no reputable nation in the free world recognizes Lukashenko. s far as international recognition goes, tikanouskaya is the legitimate president. president in exile, but president.",
">\n\nWatch this lady's interviews on YouTube. She's remarkably brave. The only reason she got into politics was because her husband was imprisoned so she took on his role.",
">\n\nNot that she was wrong for running and she obviously won, but it should of been obvious that guy was never going to play fair or just take an L",
">\n\n*legitimate President",
">\n\nTreason? Like selling out your country’s sovereignty in exchange for foreign military support to keep you in power?\nI think we know who should be on trial here.",
">\n\nLukashenko was bogus long before this invasion.",
">\n\nFor those looking for that same old Russia Classic flavor and fewer calories. Try Russia Light Belarus. Same great flavor, 1.21% the calories."
] |
Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks
|
[] |
>
She has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks"
] |
>
A different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat.
The bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win."
] |
>
It would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like "oh no what do I do?" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted."
] |
>
Angus king does not run in the primary?
Edit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running."
] |
>
Unlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ."
] |
>
I edited my comment to
Include RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024."
] |
>
It's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers."
] |
>
Yeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018"
] |
>
Okay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away."
] |
>
This lady just refuses to read a room.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all"
] |
>
Nobody cares what she thinks.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room."
] |
>
Senator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.
Edit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks."
] |
>
Maybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do."
] |
>
Arizona primary voters, please take care of this waste of space.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.",
">\n\nMaybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean."
] |
>
She’s an independent now, so she can’t be primaried. That said, she basically has no constituency, so her re-election campaign is already doomed
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.",
">\n\nMaybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean.",
">\n\nArizona primary voters, please take care of this waste of space."
] |
>
What an absolute stooge.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.",
">\n\nMaybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean.",
">\n\nArizona primary voters, please take care of this waste of space.",
">\n\nShe’s an independent now, so she can’t be primaried. That said, she basically has no constituency, so her re-election campaign is already doomed"
] |
>
Prada bag of shit.
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.",
">\n\nMaybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean.",
">\n\nArizona primary voters, please take care of this waste of space.",
">\n\nShe’s an independent now, so she can’t be primaried. That said, she basically has no constituency, so her re-election campaign is already doomed",
">\n\nWhat an absolute stooge."
] |
>
|
[
"Arizona, please do me a solid and vote for someone else. Thanks",
">\n\nShe has the Democratic Party in a bind. If they nominate a different candidate and she runs as an independent they’ll split the vote and a Republican will win.",
">\n\nA different candidate will be nominated. She is not a democrat. \nThe bind is the DSCC’s. But they can’t support her. They can be allowed to be extorted.",
">\n\nIt would be a bind if there wasn't such a clear standard. Then you'd be like \"oh no what do I do?\" The standard here is clear. The DSCC and the Democratic Senate Caucus as an institution in itself supports incumbents. They're going to support her because they're also going to support Angus King, who is going to run in a three way race, and Bernie Sanders, who is going to win the Democratic primary and run as an independent anyway. This would be true in any year, but it's even more direct this year because all three of them are running.",
">\n\nAngus king does not run in the primary?\nEdit: also maine has RCV so it’s not as big a deal as AZ.",
">\n\nUnlike Sanders, he really runs as an independent, taking on both major party candidates and winning. 4-0 between his gubernatorial and Senate runs. In 2012, before King was an incumbent, the Democratic apparatus just ignored the Democratic nominee and went after the Republican. King had the full backing in 2018, as an incumbent, and will again in 2024.",
">\n\nI edited my comment to \nInclude RCV. It is a factor in ME that prevents spoilers.",
">\n\nIt's not a factor here. The DSCC supports incumbent members of the caucus, which King, Sanders, and Sinema all are. The DSCC supported King before the RCV referendum in 2016. They supported him when the government overruled the referendum in 2017. They supported him when the new referendum was passed in 2018",
">\n\nYeah, but Sinema is 100% going to lose. Sinema cannot win if both a Republican and a Democrat are on the ballot. The DSCC is not going to throw its money away.",
">\n\nOkay and? The DSCC supports candidates who are going to lose all the time because they support incumbents. That's all",
">\n\nThis lady just refuses to read a room.",
">\n\nNobody cares what she thinks.",
">\n\nSenator Sinema, as someone who voted for you: Eat a bag of socks.\nEdit: I’m leaving it. I type “dicks” on my phone all the time. I dunno why my phone thought I wanted to say “socks”. Maybe my phone knows her better than I do.",
">\n\nMaybe McCarthy and Sinema can run off together . . . hike the Appalachian Trail, if ya know what I mean.",
">\n\nArizona primary voters, please take care of this waste of space.",
">\n\nShe’s an independent now, so she can’t be primaried. That said, she basically has no constituency, so her re-election campaign is already doomed",
">\n\nWhat an absolute stooge.",
">\n\nPrada bag of shit."
] |
Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.
|
[] |
>
The West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long."
] |
>
...for decades.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment."
] |
>
for centuries.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades."
] |
>
Well there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries."
] |
>
Yup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that."
] |
>
Good thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty"
] |
>
Most chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.
Another aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.
In a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.
This is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.
Most water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%
Necessity drives innovation.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem."
] |
>
Wonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation."
] |
>
That's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well."
] |
>
2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.
I work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China."
] |
>
Nice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year"
] |
>
6 months as best I can do, sorry
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot."
] |
>
I'll believe it when I can buy a pi again
Finally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry"
] |
>
Agree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year.
But this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status.
And anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180"
] |
>
Yeah, when asked if the problems had been resolved he didn't confirm that he just started talking about a related issue and ignored the question.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180",
">\n\nAgree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year. \nBut this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status. \n \nAnd anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry."
] |
>
Good. Price of PS5 might drop.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180",
">\n\nAgree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year. \nBut this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status. \n \nAnd anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry.",
">\n\nYeah, when asked if the problems had been resolved he didn't confirm that he just started talking about a related issue and ignored the question."
] |
>
All "chips" are not the same.
Chips for cars are not the same as chips for PC's. Which are not the same as web server chips, or Nintendo Switch chips.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180",
">\n\nAgree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year. \nBut this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status. \n \nAnd anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry.",
">\n\nYeah, when asked if the problems had been resolved he didn't confirm that he just started talking about a related issue and ignored the question.",
">\n\nGood. Price of PS5 might drop."
] |
>
Seems like everyone saying inflation was just a transitory effect caused by disruption from the pandemic we're right.
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180",
">\n\nAgree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year. \nBut this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status. \n \nAnd anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry.",
">\n\nYeah, when asked if the problems had been resolved he didn't confirm that he just started talking about a related issue and ignored the question.",
">\n\nGood. Price of PS5 might drop.",
">\n\nAll \"chips\" are not the same. \nChips for cars are not the same as chips for PC's. Which are not the same as web server chips, or Nintendo Switch chips."
] |
>
|
[
"Sourcing the rare minerals for the semiconductor fabrication will be the next bottleneck. That's a big part of why China has been cozying up to various African nations for so long.",
">\n\nThe West has really dropped the ball on Africa investment.",
">\n\n...for decades.",
">\n\nfor centuries.",
">\n\nWell there was that whole outsourcing situation that ended around the 1860s. The locals were understandably a little miffed about that.",
">\n\nYup, the chips act that was passed months ago is going to have a huge positive effect for chips in North America. So many companies, big and small, got the money to start building ridiculously big fabs. Give it 5-10 years for them to really start cranking out chips and we’ll be sitting pretty",
">\n\nGood thing they are building two huge water intensive fabs right in the middle of the dessert in Arizona. That will never become a problem.",
">\n\nMost chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.\nAnother aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.\nIn a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.\nThis is already happening and has been happening with Intel in Arizona.\nMost water usage in the state is agriculture (72%). Municipal is 22% and industrial is 6%\nNecessity drives innovation.",
">\n\nWonder how long it will take to see new car prices come down. Used as well.",
">\n\nThat's something I'd like to know too. My old VW is hanging by a thread. Can't even get parts for it right now. Around here everything new is still MSRP and every thing used is overpriced and ragged out. If you get a ragged out one, mechanic labor is through the roof and some parts are back ordered for months. Recovery will be delayed further if Covid really hammers China.",
">\n\n\n2022 was deeply challenging for ABB, Voser said, with the coronavirus in China and its related disruptions to global trade hitting the company hard. During pandemic-related shutdowns, ABB was forced to close factories in China, while hundreds of employees had to live in factories due to strict curbs on public life, he added.\n\nI work for ABB and we definitely didn’t have that problem in the US market. At least my division of the company kept producing well. We had a record year",
">\n\nNice now give me a lead time on my VFD you old coot.",
">\n\n6 months as best I can do, sorry",
">\n\nI'll believe it when I can buy a pi again\nFinally decided to pick up a 400 for a retropie deck and those kits have spiked to like $180",
">\n\nAgree. Have not seen a RPi 4 locally in forever. Maybe inventories will improve this year. \nBut this article is full of “worst is behind us” and “great future comments” with zero data on lead times and production status. \n \nAnd anyone thinking a new fab plant “planned” will change anything right now knows absolutely nothing about this industry.",
">\n\nYeah, when asked if the problems had been resolved he didn't confirm that he just started talking about a related issue and ignored the question.",
">\n\nGood. Price of PS5 might drop.",
">\n\nAll \"chips\" are not the same. \nChips for cars are not the same as chips for PC's. Which are not the same as web server chips, or Nintendo Switch chips.",
">\n\nSeems like everyone saying inflation was just a transitory effect caused by disruption from the pandemic we're right."
] |
Russia retroactively revokes its recognition of human rights 10 months after commencing war crimes
|
[] |
>
Putin approves Russia's withdrawal
:D
from Council of Europe agreements
D:
|
[
"Russia retroactively revokes its recognition of human rights 10 months after commencing war crimes"
] |
>
I had this exact response. Such a bummer!
|
[
"Russia retroactively revokes its recognition of human rights 10 months after commencing war crimes",
">\n\n\nPutin approves Russia's withdrawal\n\n:D\n\nfrom Council of Europe agreements\n\nD:"
] |
>
This is his legacy.. he is going full tilt at being a cunt.
|
[
"Russia retroactively revokes its recognition of human rights 10 months after commencing war crimes",
">\n\n\nPutin approves Russia's withdrawal\n\n:D\n\nfrom Council of Europe agreements\n\nD:",
">\n\nI had this exact response. Such a bummer!"
] |
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