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I read that as "their 155MM (million) howitzers" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine."
] |
>
It's called the "1 Person 100 Howitzers" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!"
] |
>
They're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth."
] |
>
The thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now."
] |
>
The arms dealers are loving this one
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us."
] |
>
If their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one"
] |
>
ru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.
I'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact."
] |
>
How many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat."
] |
>
There going to need them, themself soon
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?"
] |
>
The defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon"
] |
>
It’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times."
] |
>
iirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big."
] |
>
While I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much."
] |
>
Why would an illustrative image contain all of them?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?"
] |
>
All three of them
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?"
] |
>
So your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them"
] |
>
Estonia is a NATO member since 2004.
Good luck with that.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?"
] |
>
Now it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that."
] |
>
Germany could learn a thing or two
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine."
] |
>
You know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two"
] |
>
Russia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?"
] |
>
You hear about this Germany??
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow"
] |
>
Meanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??"
] |
>
Poland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony."
] |
>
Poland is allowed, like everyone else.
Can't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional."
] |
>
Yes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission."
] |
>
Russias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news."
] |
>
You forgot the /s
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs."
] |
>
For those who don't wanna look up "howitzers" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s"
] |
>
My brain briefly red donates as detonates
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon."
] |
>
Great gift and tax deductible so win.
Dear Russia you now pay tax ok
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates"
] |
>
So is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok"
] |
>
Yes, it's called NATO member since 2004.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?"
] |
>
Oh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004."
] |
>
Wow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor."
] |
>
what are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers"
] |
>
Article 5
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?"
] |
>
Lady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5"
] |
>
Estonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries.
Had Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly."
] |
>
Russia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves
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[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already"
] |
>
I don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves"
] |
>
It’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns."
] |
>
I'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t"
] |
>
Show us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.
What a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine."
] |
>
We would send much much more, but like you said, we are small..
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.",
">\n\nShow us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.\nWhat a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can."
] |
>
Don't mind clowns like /u/x_is_mad, the contributions of small Baltic nations are recognized as being very important, and not just in physical goods delivered.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.",
">\n\nShow us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.\nWhat a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can.",
">\n\nWe would send much much more, but like you said, we are small.."
] |
>
shows you that Russia has no interests in ''attacking'' other countries or all of Europe like so often claimed by the media, Estonia is giving away large chunks of it's Military arms.
just noticed that.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.",
">\n\nShow us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.\nWhat a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can.",
">\n\nWe would send much much more, but like you said, we are small..",
">\n\nDon't mind clowns like /u/x_is_mad, the contributions of small Baltic nations are recognized as being very important, and not just in physical goods delivered."
] |
>
Oh they are interested alright. But those howitzers do more to curb those ambitions in Ukraine, than they could gathering rust in Estonia.
At the same time as gifting those old howitzers to Ukraine, Estonia is spending more to buy better self propelled howitzers from Korea and rocket artillery from US. If you think Estonia is decreasing it's defense capabilities you don't know what you are talking about.
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.",
">\n\nShow us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.\nWhat a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can.",
">\n\nWe would send much much more, but like you said, we are small..",
">\n\nDon't mind clowns like /u/x_is_mad, the contributions of small Baltic nations are recognized as being very important, and not just in physical goods delivered.",
">\n\nshows you that Russia has no interests in ''attacking'' other countries or all of Europe like so often claimed by the media, Estonia is giving away large chunks of it's Military arms.\njust noticed that."
] |
>
|
[
"Estonians are replacing the 155mm howitzers with K9 thunders from South Korea and HIMARS from USA.",
">\n\nThe Ukraine conflict does seem to have solved the problem of what to do with aging Cold War relics.",
">\n\nAnd created a business opportunity for weapons manufacturers",
">\n\nOhhhhh yeah, which in turn is a key pillar of US diplomacy. We use parts as a tool to help \"encourage\" other countries to cooperate. Our old fighters (f-16 for instance) make us a boatload of money in supplying parts. Also a tool we use to encourage countries to play ball with us. I would hazard a guess that the f-16 program has paid for itself several times over through parts and selling to other countries",
">\n\nAnd probably further advanced US interests waaaay more than that dollar amount would in other ways. Foreign countries love American things that go boom. \nI’m actually curious to know what kind of foreign relations deals have been sealed by some good ‘ol fashion weapons. Like how the US is trying to cajole Turkey into accepting new NATO members by promising to upgrade their F16’s (read this somewhere).",
">\n\nOh absolutely, and the more Russian made weapons get hard to find ammo for the more practical American made weapons are. You want to arm your small country, you trying to buy 7.62 from China or North Korea or want to buy from 5.56 from the US who can get you tons? How about for something more technical like a missile? Want to split the difference and need to get two world powers to back you all the time?",
">\n\nI find it hilarious though, that Russia fighting pretty much any of its neighbors, will be fighting AGAINST their own weapons (until the NATO stuff gets brought out).",
">\n\nLol, that's a funny thought.",
">\n\nWhile nothing is really funny in war (my correction), it is quite ironic. When I read that the Russian soldiers had fled a battlefield, abandoning a functional tank and the Ukrainians just driving off in that shit, it makes me smile. I understand a lot of the military hardware in their neighbors’ armies was “left” in these countries when the USSR dissolved, but the way they sell arms to pretty much anybody, they were bound to end up in conflict facing their own weaponry. Gotta have some chill when it comes to export controls. I have a gut feeling that the US pretty much only doles out the stuff that they have definitive counter/kill capabilities for (obviously there are exceptions)",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that we give out F35s like an ice cream man, but the F22 stays under lock and key",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nThe government of Estonia has decided to give all of its 155mm howitzers to the Ukrainian army, Ukraine's military General Staff wrote on Facebook on Jan. 23.\n\"We are giving all of our 155mm howitzers to Ukraine and we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't give Ukraine the weapons to win the war,\" Estonian Ambassador to Ukraine Kaimo Kuusk said.\nDozens of FH-70 155mm and D-30 122mm howitzers are to be sent to Ukraine.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 Estonia^#2 military^#3 howitzers^#4 give^#5",
">\n\n\n\"we want to set a precedent in this way so that other countries don't have excuses why they can't”\n\nLOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY 👀\nEdit: Germany just pledged support. I’d like to think this was because of my comment.",
">\n\nIf it was for me, all our depots would be empty and be refilled with shiny new stock directly out of the factory. For some reason, somebody seems to have a big bag of dirty laundry from Mr. Scholz, and they let him know.",
">\n\nEstonia knows how to support during team ganks.",
">\n\nI used to gank. One of my big regrets.",
">\n\n\"The biggest ever Estonian military aid package for Ukraine, worth EUR 133 million ($145 million) or over 1% country's GDP...\"\nThe Baltics have really been stand-up states in this whole thing.",
">\n\nThey know the stakes",
">\n\nYeah but all?!? That's daring.",
">\n\nI get your point, but it kinda doesn't matter once you're in NATO.",
">\n\nIt does, NATO cannot be there in significant quality within 1-2 days. Stopping or slowing down any enemy movement in the initial push can mean a lot.",
">\n\nThere’s 40,000 NATO troops and equipment stationed in Poland right now—that is ready to deploy as a reactionary force. In normal circumstances, I’d agree with you. At the moment, NATO is ready to go.",
">\n\nWithin 1 day? I don't know stuff, but my best guess is that planes (and ships) are the bottleneck here figuratively, while the long convoy® through the Suwalski gap would be the bottleneck literally. Easy target for bombing.\nSo I would suspect lots of NATO forces pour in every day from all possible directions (especially if Sweden+Finland manage to join) but not a signicifant amount on day one. Plus on day one you have the least knowledge of enemy operations and positions, so your first planes would have the highest risk of a surprise attack from ground or air. So it's tricky. \nGive it three days and you probably have a clear air superiority though. Then it's game over.",
">\n\nIntelligence saw the buildup of Russian troops well in advance of when they crossed the border into Ukraine. If they were to begin mobilizing in a direction that would encroach on NATO territory, NATO troops would surely be moved in preemptively.\nAlso, no, Russia's not going to be shooting down a \"convoy\" of NATO aircraft in NATO airspace.",
">\n\nI meant ground units, obviously. The Suwalski gap is literally a bottleneck in logistics. Russia on both sides, more or less.",
">\n\nGround units don't typically travel on the ground. That's what C-5s, C-17s, and C-130s are for, and they fly with protection. Russia doesn't even have air superiority over their current battleground, there's no way in hell they're taking on groups of US aircraft over an area they don't control.",
">\n\nThank you Estonia. This Russian aggression must end.",
">\n\nThe Baltics are next on Putin's hit list. They know that stopping him now is imperative to avoiding a direct conflict later. Putin has done a stellar job in uniting NATO, and other groups of nations, against him.",
">\n\nThey're all members of NATO, so he'll have to be very careful about how he messes with them.\nAssuming he doesn't fall out of a window anytime soon.",
">\n\n\"Hrr drr it's not us invading it's just the Russian separatists fighting genocide and we're just sending humanitarian aid and thousands of aid workers to help them. Oh oops they were so moved by the separatists movement they decided to deflect and join their fight. What can we do?\"\nI mean that was his approach the last 4 or 5 times.",
">\n\nI don't think that is going to work in a NATO country.",
">\n\nProbably not after all the other times Putin used this approach, but in truth, he would just have to sow enough deniable chaos that other members don't want to trigger Article 5. We saw with the Polish missile incident how reluctant NATO is of going to war with Russia (which is a good thing, generally).",
">\n\nHow would he be able to sow enough chaos to not have article 5 invoked during an invasion of Estonia? I can't see it happening. The missile strike in Poland was a very different situation, and was pretty quickly determined to be a Ukrainian air defense missile.",
">\n\nAnd an error, as is common in the fog of war. A deliberate invasion or other attack would be handled very differently.",
">\n\nEstonia has always been a great country.",
">\n\nDamn, Russia expelled an ambassador and Estonia expelled months of artillery barrage.",
">\n\nWell done Estonia!\nHopefully they still have some other artillery of their own or will replenish their equipment soon.",
">\n\nI believe Estonia had already acquired K9 Thunders from South Korea, and have moved to buy more.\nWhat they have sent is the older stuff just sitting in reserves.\nEdit: my bad, the artillery they sent was not just reserve artillery. It also included guns still being actively used.",
">\n\nThat's a good way to do it!",
">\n\nReminder that Estonia is a tiny nation of 1.33 million people, the level of their support is incredible.",
">\n\nThey directly border Russia as well.\nPretty sure I read that the NATO strategy in the Baltic states is to delay any Russian advance until reinforcements arrive in force.\nLosing all of your artillery makes that harder.\nSmall country but generous and brave.",
">\n\nThey'd have to delay for at most a few hours while NATO airforce arrives from neighbouring countries, and establishes air superiority.",
">\n\nNATO forces will probably be able to establish air superiority, but you still have 100k-300k Russian troops on the ground. The reaction time of NATO land forces is measured in months. Chances are Estonia will be gone before any meaningful reinforcements arrive. Though after that the Russians will be fighting for every inch.",
">\n\nWhat ru troops?\nThe ones currently engaged in Ukraine, or more reluctant and untrained conscripts and criminals?\nru is already showing signs of ammo shortages.\nAny build-up on NATO borders would also provoke similar counter build-up.",
">\n\nCan we talk about the thumbnail image for this article??\nPerfectly captured picture captures a shell leaving the barrel!",
">\n\nCan also see the arc of the shockwave on the rhs.",
">\n\nWay to go Estonia.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nIs that them? All of them? Thank Estonia! Ya’ll are bros. You had half a loaf of bread and gave someone else all of it. For real, you’re amazing.",
">\n\nGood to see kind words here.\nIt really isn't a difficult decision for us, because Ukraine is also fighting our fight in both a figurative and literal sense. Figurative because if Ukraine loses or is forced to make peace on unfavourable terms then Putin will only grow more ambutious, bold and aggressive and we are next on the list. And literal because many of the Russian units that were stationed near our borders have taken a heavy beating by the Ukrainians.",
">\n\nEstonia donates weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine generously donates the ammo to Russia.",
">\n\nIt's dangerous out there. Here, take this with you!",
">\n\nBecause they know Russia can't invade them without setting off WW3",
">\n\nAll my homies hate russia!",
">\n\nThose howitzers were meant to kill Russians and they will be doing that now =).",
">\n\nThanks Estonia!",
">\n\nAlways liked Estonia!!",
">\n\nThey'll be used in Ukraine next week, or in Estonia next year. That's the choice for them.",
">\n\nSuur äitah Eesti!!!",
">\n\nTime to rain some hate",
">\n\nWell done Estonia.",
">\n\nI can't possibly speak highly enough for the Baltic states and how much they've shown leadership despite their size. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are punching leagues above their weight class.\nThe contrast in Germany being the 4th largest economy in the world should come as glaring shame, not saying they haven't given over arms and support...but by measure, it's a pittance.",
">\n\nEconomy size doesn't really matter. You can't just make weapon systems appear out of thin air. Some things to consider:\n1) Germanys army was gutted after the reunification\n2) Germany has special laws regarding its army. For example tanks cannot be produced as a reserve. They can't just build tanks and stash them. Probably also affects other weapon platforms. \n3) Germany is leading VJTF currently and has equipment bound there. \n4) Germanys Ringtausch is not counted towards their donated equipment. \nThese are all things that you should keep in mind if you want to compare the donations.\nEdit: 5) in Estonia and the Baltics in general is also a permanent Nato defense stationed, with a big share also Germany.",
">\n\nGermany still very much has the undoubtedly biggest and most capable military industrial complex of European continent, including Europe's biggest tank factory and Europe's biggest small arms factories......there is plenty more they could have done and could be doing right now, if they wanted\nCzech republic agreed to use its much smaller factory to buy and refurbish 90 T-72 tanks for Ukraine.....German Rheinmetall could do 3x as much as that little Czech \"Excalibur army\" factory can. Again, if German government gave it a order to do so",
">\n\nThey are getting replacement equipment but they are sending their current equipment before the replacements arrive which still takes some moxy. The Baltics are by far the most at risk NATO states and so they should theoretically have the greatest reason to keep every weapon they’ve got and yet they have gone the farthest to arm Ukraine even at the point of putting their own security under greater risk.",
">\n\nThe irony that Estonia could feasibly need that weaponry in a land war yet western nations bleat about depleted military stocks they’ll never actually need. The UK is now sending top tier tanks, follow suit Europe!",
">\n\nEstonia is giving away their old gear and getting it replaced with new gear from the US and Korea. Different countries are in different situations. People need to relax.",
">\n\nWhen will it arrive though?",
">\n\nShhh, you are not supposed to ask that.\nSlava Ukraine",
">\n\nJeez! They sure hate the Russians, and rightly so!👍❤️‼️",
">\n\nDamn. These Estonian boys got some beef with old dwarf Putin",
">\n\nPutin playing 4d chess: “Finally all our efforts have succeeded! Reroute all troops to Estonia!”",
">\n\nI don't think these particular weapons are what's keeping them from attacking NATO!",
">\n\nIf Ukraine falls, so will Moldova. The Baltics would be next. They obviously know this.",
">\n\nYour thinking of the Balkans.\nBaltics are north and already bordering Russia.",
">\n\nNo, I'm thinking of the Baltics, like I said. lol",
">\n\nSorry I misunderstood.\nI assumed you meant that Ukraine and Moldova physically stood in-between the Baltics and Russia.",
">\n\nOTHER COUNTRIES NEED TO GIVE MORE. I appreciate all the support, but support has to be OVERWHELMING",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with sending some freedom dollars to Estonia!",
">\n\nAs an American I would certainly be ok with you personally doing so.",
">\n\nJapan's sending Playstations",
">\n\nPlayStation 1 or 2?",
">\n\nEstonia showing Germany and turkey what’s up",
">\n\nUkraine’s been getting slammed since the new year this is good",
">\n\nToday you. Tomorrow hopefully not me.",
">\n\nEstonia rocks…",
">\n\nWhat's the best way *I can help the Ukrainians fight?Unable to leave to go fight because I must work & pay bills, etc.",
">\n\nUkraine will need every bit of equipment it can get for the coming Russian offensive. At some point those 150K plus Russian conscripts are going to get their orders to attack.",
">\n\nEstonia realizes that their defense against Russia is 99% their status as a NATO member state.",
">\n\nThank you dear Estonia",
">\n\nAn example and not so subtle pressure on the other allies. Good on Estonia!",
">\n\nDonated every single artillery piece! This reminds me of Slovakia gifting their ENTIRE FLEET of Mig29's. Ukraine has friends nearby to help and every bit counts.\n\nI mean, Russia isnt stupid enough to attack Estonia surely? Article 5. Those howizers would probably just be sitting unused or for military training. Now they are put to good use. Disposing of this evil beset on Ukraine.",
">\n\nI read that as \"their 155MM (million) howitzers\" and was briefly very frightened of Estonia. Why they have 150 million howitzers??!",
">\n\nIt's called the \"1 Person 100 Howitzers\" plan, and they're positive about their future population growth.",
">\n\nThey're a relatively small country... I wonder what other things they have left in storage to defend themselves... Or what they're building now.",
">\n\nThe thing is...the only country that would be interested to invade Baltics is Russia. If we can remove this threat via Ukraine war, we don't really need the weapons on site. If Ukraine fails to win the war, then not even those weapons will save us.",
">\n\nThe arms dealers are loving this one",
">\n\nIf their was going to be an invasion they would know about the build up. Estonia probably doesn’t have enough of this equipment to make a difference alone so makes sense going to Ukraine for a greater impact.",
">\n\nru defencess in the area have been withdrawn long before the announcement.\nI'm not a military strategist, but ru probably doesn't see them as a threat.",
">\n\nHow many howitzers is all of them? I see the dollar value ($145 million), but how many does that represent?",
">\n\nThere going to need them, themself soon",
">\n\nThe defense industry just ask for one thing: keep at least one major conflict going at all times.",
">\n\nIt’s depressing how the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain and France do so little. The Baltic and Nordic countries know the stakes but are too small to make the impact needed. At least UK and US have spent big.",
">\n\niirc France has also given tons of material, it just isn't in the media as much.",
">\n\nWhile I think it’s a nice gesture is that all of them in the picture?",
">\n\nWhy would an illustrative image contain all of them?",
">\n\nAll three of them",
">\n\nSo your saying now might be a good time for me to invade Estonia?",
">\n\nEstonia is a NATO member since 2004.\nGood luck with that.",
">\n\nNow it's Germany's turn to approve their tanks being sent to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany could learn a thing or two",
">\n\nYou know Germany announced a billion dollar package days ago right?",
">\n\nRussia is a “bully” and must be treated as such …..Give Ukraine all the arms that it needs to kill every fukin Russian on Ukrainian soil period …Give them weapons to destroy Moscow",
">\n\nYou hear about this Germany??",
">\n\nMeanwhile, Germany still wringing its collective hands over allowing Poland to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They are now Europe's Neville Chamberlain. The irony.",
">\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. You are delusional.",
">\n\n\nPoland is allowed, like everyone else. \n\nCan't send tanks bought from Germany to Ukraine w/o German permission.",
">\n\nYes they can if they would request, as seen in todays news.",
">\n\nRussias plan is working perfectly... wait until all the nato countries send all their weapons to Ukraine, and after they take over Ukraine, the world is theirs.",
">\n\nYou forgot the /s",
">\n\nFor those who don't wanna look up \"howitzers\" or click on the link they're a type of cannon.",
">\n\nMy brain briefly red donates as detonates",
">\n\nGreat gift and tax deductible so win.\nDear Russia you now pay tax ok",
">\n\nSo is it like they just gave them over without a war or do they have other weapons?",
">\n\nYes, it's called NATO member since 2004.",
">\n\nOh, you wanna say we’re Russia-phobic and remove all your delegates? Well fine, we’ll remove these old things hanging around like lawn gnomes and give them to our neighbor.",
">\n\nWow today I learned that they aren’t called Howardzers",
">\n\nwhat are they going to use to defend themselves if things escalate?",
">\n\nArticle 5",
">\n\nLady Mormomt speaks harshly but speaks truly.",
">\n\nEstonia has spent already 1% of its entire GDP in aid to Ukraine.....to put that into perspective, that's almost as much as Germany and Spain spend on their own national militaries. \nHad Germany done the same as Estonia, Ukrainians would have chased Russians back to Moscow already",
">\n\nRussia’s master plan is beginning to reveal itself. Convince all other nations to disarm themselves",
">\n\nI don't understand why any NATO countries still used towed artillery. They should get rid of it and get self-propelled guns.",
">\n\nIt’s WWIII and everyone is acting like it isn’t",
">\n\nI'm glad that Estonia thinks what they do is important but I am glad countries like US and Germany are having actual helpful results for the brave people of Ukraine.",
">\n\nShow us the 133 million Euro you've sent Ukraine then bud.\nWhat a trash post against a small nation that is sending as much as they can.",
">\n\nWe would send much much more, but like you said, we are small..",
">\n\nDon't mind clowns like /u/x_is_mad, the contributions of small Baltic nations are recognized as being very important, and not just in physical goods delivered.",
">\n\nshows you that Russia has no interests in ''attacking'' other countries or all of Europe like so often claimed by the media, Estonia is giving away large chunks of it's Military arms.\njust noticed that.",
">\n\nOh they are interested alright. But those howitzers do more to curb those ambitions in Ukraine, than they could gathering rust in Estonia. \nAt the same time as gifting those old howitzers to Ukraine, Estonia is spending more to buy better self propelled howitzers from Korea and rocket artillery from US. If you think Estonia is decreasing it's defense capabilities you don't know what you are talking about."
] |
This is not unpopular opinion
|
[] |
>
Not unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion"
] |
>
Outside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today."
] |
>
r/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it.
And for what it's worth ITA
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain."
] |
>
Thanks homie
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA"
] |
>
This channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.
Omg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.
How cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.
What a junk.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie"
] |
>
Get a bicycle!
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk."
] |
>
get a horse!
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!"
] |
>
That wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!"
] |
>
Most cities are boring and lame.
In America there are like 8 cool cities total.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!"
] |
>
Which do you consider cool?
NYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total."
] |
>
New York and DC are great to live in
Nashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.
LA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion."
] |
>
i'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count."
] |
>
This is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country."
] |
>
It's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply"
] |
>
Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.
Nobody does this.
They take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place.
You know who walks?
Small town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation.
Africans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc."
] |
>
Nobody does this.
My guess is you've never been to these cities.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand."
] |
>
I've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd.
Trying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities."
] |
>
Yeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity.
Walkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be."
] |
>
Most cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean."
] |
>
They may have public transit, but they're far from "walkable" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there"
] |
>
I can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.
American car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too."
] |
>
Not really.
Its far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.
Cities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.
It's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad."
] |
>
You mean New York and maybe Chicago have a decent public transport system
3 light rail lines in the downtown region of a city of 5 million isn’t a “massive public transport system”
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.",
">\n\nNot really.\nIts far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.\nCities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.\nIt's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice."
] |
>
What major city doesn't have mass transit? And if drinking is the only reason you're complaining about needing a car, then just Uber instead of driving. There is absolutely no reason to drink and drive at this point. If we're going to a bar, we Uber both ways. If we're going to party at a friend's house, we drive there and Uber home. Easy enough to go back for the car the next day.
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.",
">\n\nNot really.\nIts far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.\nCities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.\nIt's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice.",
">\n\nYou mean New York and maybe Chicago have a decent public transport system \n3 light rail lines in the downtown region of a city of 5 million isn’t a “massive public transport system”"
] |
>
Uber is a very expensive alternative to mass transit. And plenty of cities mass transit networks stop working at 11 or 12PM. If you live outside of the city you're visiting, you're looking at a $60+ Uber expense for one night. I'm not defending drinking and driving, but relying on mass transit isn't that feasible in the US unless you live strategically close to mass transit stops (which is also expensive to do).
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.",
">\n\nNot really.\nIts far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.\nCities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.\nIt's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice.",
">\n\nYou mean New York and maybe Chicago have a decent public transport system \n3 light rail lines in the downtown region of a city of 5 million isn’t a “massive public transport system”",
">\n\nWhat major city doesn't have mass transit? And if drinking is the only reason you're complaining about needing a car, then just Uber instead of driving. There is absolutely no reason to drink and drive at this point. If we're going to a bar, we Uber both ways. If we're going to party at a friend's house, we drive there and Uber home. Easy enough to go back for the car the next day."
] |
>
car centric, thats most cities here in the US lol
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.",
">\n\nNot really.\nIts far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.\nCities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.\nIt's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice.",
">\n\nYou mean New York and maybe Chicago have a decent public transport system \n3 light rail lines in the downtown region of a city of 5 million isn’t a “massive public transport system”",
">\n\nWhat major city doesn't have mass transit? And if drinking is the only reason you're complaining about needing a car, then just Uber instead of driving. There is absolutely no reason to drink and drive at this point. If we're going to a bar, we Uber both ways. If we're going to party at a friend's house, we drive there and Uber home. Easy enough to go back for the car the next day.",
">\n\nUber is a very expensive alternative to mass transit. And plenty of cities mass transit networks stop working at 11 or 12PM. If you live outside of the city you're visiting, you're looking at a $60+ Uber expense for one night. I'm not defending drinking and driving, but relying on mass transit isn't that feasible in the US unless you live strategically close to mass transit stops (which is also expensive to do)."
] |
>
|
[
"This is not unpopular opinion",
">\n\nNot unpopular. This is literally a subject of study at many, many universities across the world. People are constantly working to change car-centric cities and it is one of the main topics in architectural and urban design discourse today.",
">\n\nOutside of reddit I think this would be hugely unpopular. Everyone I know is a carbrain.",
">\n\nr/fuckcars would suit you down to the ground if you don't already know of it. \nAnd for what it's worth ITA",
">\n\nThanks homie",
">\n\nThis channel is pure trash. His analysis comparing some liquor stores to drive thrus and how drive thrus ruin cities is infantile.\nOmg let's not talk about stroads and how those bankrupt cities.\nHow cities hide their entire budgets and spend all the money on just roads all day.\nWhat a junk.",
">\n\nGet a bicycle!",
">\n\nget a horse!",
">\n\nThat wouldn't work where I live. There are sidewalks and paved roads. Meant for cars and walking, but cycling fits in just fine!",
">\n\nMost cities are boring and lame.\nIn America there are like 8 cool cities total.",
">\n\nWhich do you consider cool?\nNYC and Miami definitely make the list in my opinion.",
">\n\nNew York and DC are great to live in\nNashville, New Orleans, and Miami are great to visit.\nLA, San Francisco, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Boston are great if you’re really into Celebrity, LGBT, Stoner, Mormon, or Asshole cultures respectively. Therefore they all half count.",
">\n\ni'm glad my city is on this list let's keep it underground. rent's already high enough i don't need more people getting clued in on the best city in the country.",
">\n\nThis is a huge difference indeed between US cities and European cities, it's crazy to see how cars could shape cities so deeply",
">\n\nIt's almost like European cities were mainly developed before cars. Go walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.",
">\n\n\nGo walk around in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.\n\nNobody does this.\nThey take Ubers that will take longer to arrive than it would take to walk 15 blocks & cost more than the thing they went out to do in the first place. \nYou know who walks? \nSmall town kids' from Binghamton or Scranton or Ithaca or Easton who grew up having to get to work & school in a spread out place without public transportation. \nAfricans & Asians & Europeans are the same. Rural people will walk like 10 miles to get to class, city people will Uber & take subways & look down on the rural people they don't understand.",
">\n\n\nNobody does this.\n\nMy guess is you've never been to these cities.",
">\n\nI've worked in 1, lived & worked in another, and have family who lives in the 3rd. \nTrying to get drunk people or working professionals to walk from City Hall to Penns Landing, Dumbo to Alphabet City is a lot harder than it should be.",
">\n\nYeah, but unfortunately technology (like the automobile) tends to start as a convenience and then gradually become a necessity. \nWalkable major cities are no longer realistic unless you're wealthy, just like living on the ocean.",
">\n\nMost cities are walkable around the world. The USA is the outlier here so not unrealistic at all just the way they do things there",
">\n\nThey may have public transit, but they're far from \"walkable\" unless you're rich and live downtown. We can do that too.",
">\n\nI can literally walk anywhere in my metro area of 1mln. And take public transit where distance is an issue. I don't even own a car and never needed one.\nAmerican car dependency is artificially created by zoning laws. They force people to spread in a giant desolate suburbian hellscape. It's just sad.",
">\n\nNot really.\nIts far cheaper to build out than it is to build up because property is cheap here and most people, when given the choice, are going to choose whatever option gives them the most for their dollar, and most of the time that's going to be house in the burbs with a yard.\nCities in places like Europe or Japan, by and large don't have the option to just keep expanding like American cities do and are essentially left no choice but to build denser.\nIt's so weird that so many people on Reddit believe that millions of Americans live in suburbia because they have no choice.",
">\n\nYou mean New York and maybe Chicago have a decent public transport system \n3 light rail lines in the downtown region of a city of 5 million isn’t a “massive public transport system”",
">\n\nWhat major city doesn't have mass transit? And if drinking is the only reason you're complaining about needing a car, then just Uber instead of driving. There is absolutely no reason to drink and drive at this point. If we're going to a bar, we Uber both ways. If we're going to party at a friend's house, we drive there and Uber home. Easy enough to go back for the car the next day.",
">\n\nUber is a very expensive alternative to mass transit. And plenty of cities mass transit networks stop working at 11 or 12PM. If you live outside of the city you're visiting, you're looking at a $60+ Uber expense for one night. I'm not defending drinking and driving, but relying on mass transit isn't that feasible in the US unless you live strategically close to mass transit stops (which is also expensive to do).",
">\n\ncar centric, thats most cities here in the US lol"
] |
Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....
|
[] |
>
Not at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings...."
] |
>
Biden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too.
It’s not just the Executive Branch.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this."
] |
>
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
And you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety.
On the same note, politicians are only human.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch."
] |
>
Welp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human."
] |
>
Yup.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'..."
] |
>
USAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret.
How in the hell …?
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup."
] |
>
I had a TS/SCI...
I second that. How in the hell?
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?"
] |
>
Did he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?"
] |
>
Any of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard"
] |
>
I work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us."
] |
>
When the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder"
] |
>
This is so fucking funny
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course."
] |
>
"I am Spartacus", classified documents edition.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny"
] |
>
Thanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition."
] |
>
Let's have a gander, eh?
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed."
] |
>
I don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?"
] |
>
Reaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind."
] |
>
Put 'em all in the same jail cell /s
Seriously we need to know what the documents contained. Personnel files or nuclear attack plans makes a difference.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.",
">\n\nReaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!"
] |
>
They make a difference, yes. But both actions are still a violation.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.",
">\n\nReaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!",
">\n\nPut 'em all in the same jail cell /s\nSeriously we need to know what the documents contained. Personnel files or nuclear attack plans makes a difference."
] |
>
At this point, maybe they should just release a list of who hasn't taken files home.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.",
">\n\nReaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!",
">\n\nPut 'em all in the same jail cell /s\nSeriously we need to know what the documents contained. Personnel files or nuclear attack plans makes a difference.",
">\n\nThey make a difference, yes. But both actions are still a violation."
] |
>
The answer is they all have. The problem is some don't want to give them up.
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.",
">\n\nReaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!",
">\n\nPut 'em all in the same jail cell /s\nSeriously we need to know what the documents contained. Personnel files or nuclear attack plans makes a difference.",
">\n\nThey make a difference, yes. But both actions are still a violation.",
">\n\nAt this point, maybe they should just release a list of who hasn't taken files home."
] |
>
Is that actually seen as a problem though? I haven’t seen any indictments. Obstruction of Justice, what’s that?!
|
[
"Doesn't install confidence in our classified handlings....",
">\n\nNot at the executive branch anyway. This is honestly disgusting and makes you wonder just how wide spread of a problem is this.",
">\n\nBiden had some out and about from his time as a Senator, too. \nIt’s not just the Executive Branch.",
">\n\n🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ \nAnd you know if there's one person doing it there's 100. Makes me weep for the men and women in uniform, and all of our safety. \nOn the same note, politicians are only human.",
">\n\nWelp, time to send the feds out to the Obamas' and to the Bushes' and to the Cheneys' and the Clintons' and to the Gores'...",
">\n\nYup.",
">\n\nUSAF Veteran here- Had a Security Clearance, though not Top Secret. \nHow in the hell …?",
">\n\nI had a TS/SCI...\nI second that. How in the hell?",
">\n\nDid he age 20 years in the past 3 years or something? I don't remember him looking that haggard",
">\n\nAny of us would age like that if Y'all Qaeda issued a fatwa against us.",
">\n\nI work at a law firm. We got a file from another reaffirm that had tracking chips on it and on every subfolder",
">\n\nWhen the vice president moves out, take the boxes not to their home, but to a filter facility where a filter team from FBI/NAR can go through the material and make sure any classified documents are processed properly. After that the boxes can be delivered to the former VP's home. Same procedure goes for ex-presidents of course.",
">\n\nThis is so fucking funny",
">\n\n\"I am Spartacus\", classified documents edition.",
">\n\nThanks! I started looking around and found some boxes of weird Cointelpro shit about LSD experiments and remote viewing in my Grandpa's shed.",
">\n\nLet's have a gander, eh?",
">\n\nI don't have any, but only because I just declassified them all with my mind.",
">\n\nReaches behind OP's ear: Is this a classified document?!",
">\n\nPut 'em all in the same jail cell /s\nSeriously we need to know what the documents contained. Personnel files or nuclear attack plans makes a difference.",
">\n\nThey make a difference, yes. But both actions are still a violation.",
">\n\nAt this point, maybe they should just release a list of who hasn't taken files home.",
">\n\nThe answer is they all have. The problem is some don't want to give them up."
] |
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