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As a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.
They can produce the public records or be removed.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it."
] |
>
Any grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed."
] |
>
Hunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC."
] |
>
Is it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward."
] |
>
I think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one."
] |
>
Or asking for a friend.....
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course."
] |
>
Honestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend....."
] |
>
Screw the Atlanta DA.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying."
] |
>
translation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA."
] |
>
Why not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are"
] |
>
If it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump."
] |
>
So
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?"
] |
>
Of course they don’t
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo"
] |
>
God is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.
And shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t"
] |
>
Pursuing facts is apparently a liberal practice.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t",
">\n\nGod is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.\nAnd shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one."
] |
>
I think that's called a coverup
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t",
">\n\nGod is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.\nAnd shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one.",
">\n\nPursuing facts is apparently a liberal practice."
] |
>
As far as I am concerned, this is most definitely in the public interest, and that is why she doesn’t have to release shit until it is time. Lock that fat orange piece of shit, lies, and hatred up, and all of his little minions too.
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t",
">\n\nGod is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.\nAnd shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one.",
">\n\nPursuing facts is apparently a liberal practice.",
">\n\nI think that's called a coverup"
] |
>
I swear to god I thought that was Cardi B
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t",
">\n\nGod is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.\nAnd shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one.",
">\n\nPursuing facts is apparently a liberal practice.",
">\n\nI think that's called a coverup",
">\n\nAs far as I am concerned, this is most definitely in the public interest, and that is why she doesn’t have to release shit until it is time. Lock that fat orange piece of shit, lies, and hatred up, and all of his little minions too."
] |
>
|
[
"TL;DR: DA Fani Willis doesn't want the special grand jury's report to be public, because there is information contained that is essential to future indictments and prosecutions. The contents will become public when this goes to court.\nEdit: LOL, a quickly deleted reply to me was accusing \"you all are no different than the Lock Her Up Crowd\". Because apparently summarizing the facts of an article succinctly is now a partisan act.",
">\n\nso you admit you read the article in direct violation of Reddit's number one tacit rule?",
">\n\nYes.\nShall I wear the French maid outfit for the spanking this time?",
">\n\nYes please, what size pineapple do you prefer?",
">\n\nIt was this film that made me realize hell might not be so bad after all",
">\n\nI'm sure we all know enough people there, we won't be lonely.",
">\n\nIt's the fact that all the people who got into heaven will be watching us on the biblical equivalent of CCTV for all eternity that gives me the creeps.\nThere's no way they'll just be singing hymns all day. The best part about Heaven for them is going to be watching the people they hate getting extremely creatively and incredibly painfully tortured in Hell.",
">\n\nGood thing neither is real.",
">\n\nI like the joke about Satan showing people around Hell and it’s all nice, then they see over a fence and it’s people being burned and tortured and he says “oh those are Christians, they prefer it that way for some reason.”",
">\n\n\"Sometimes we torture them by insisting they choose a safe word, or by just giving them a hug afterwards.\"",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis said.",
">\n\n\nfuture defendants'\n\nThat is quite an important choice of words. That would suggest a decision has been made to charge?",
">\n\nShe literally said “decisions are imminent”",
">\n\nthat's good, but my imminent and her imminent might be different. time is relative.\ni am eager is all i'm saying.",
">\n\nSomeone in lawyer world predicted that he would be indicted on or around January 23rd months ago. I wish I could find it now.",
">\n\nIf they're going to use it to prosecute him they can't make it public or it undermines their case. If they don't prosecute him then it's a coverup.",
">\n\nDoesn't the prosecutor have to tell the defendent what evidence they have before the trial?",
">\n\nIn the United States, the prosecutor is required to disclose to the defense any evidence in their possession that is FAVORABLE to the accused and MATERIAL TO GUILT or punishment as part of the discovery process. This is known as the Brady rule, named after the Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland. This includes physical evidence, witness statements, and any other information that may help the defense prepare for trial or potentially exonerate the defendant. The defense also has the right to request additional evidence from the prosecution through a process known as discovery.",
">\n\nAnd in some states like California, the defense has to give the prosecution discovery also. Both sides know pretty much what evidence us coming in before trial. Not sure if all states have this procedure or not",
">\n\nCalifornia requires discovery by the defendant in a criminal case? That sounds like crap.",
">\n\nI don't need to see it.. I just need to see charges that will stick.",
">\n\n100%. Here's to being cautiously hopeful about it.",
">\n\nMakes sense. Don't wanna poison the jury pool.",
">\n\nDoesn’t want public to see it yet.\nIf he’s prosecuted, doubt she’ll care about the report being public after that’s completed.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult.",
">\n\nJury selection in Fulton County is going to be challenging, but it is unlikely that political affiliation of the county is going to be sufficient ground for a change of venue.",
">\n\nIt will be challenging for Trump’s lawyers for sure! Although Buckhead is Fulton and has plenty of wealthy Republicans…",
">\n\nExactly, not that any of them would be caught dead serving on a jury.",
">\n\nTrue!",
">\n\nWell the good news is that the prison golf team is about to get a lot stronger next year...",
">\n\nBut, I heard the prison golf league is very tough on anyone that uses the foot wedge.",
">\n\n\nIn an Atlanta courthouse, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis said the report, from a special grand jury, should not be released \"at this time.\" She said its release might impact the rights of multiple defendants if her office brings criminal charges. \nMcBurney appeared skeptical that he had any authority to keep the report private. He pointed out that the district attorney's office, witnesses, and jurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents. Refusing to publish it, he said, would be an additional gag on a subject of great public interest.",
">\n\n\njurors themselves were all free to talk about the report's contents\n\nHave any of them talked yet?",
">\n\nThen indict him already.",
">\n\nThere is a criminal grand jury coming, or it may have already been empaneled. They don't tend to be advertised.",
">\n\nWhat, no billboards!? Where’s the fun in that?!",
">\n\nthat's silliy. \nin the South i get most of my important information from BILLBOARDS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!\n/s",
">\n\n…because it would taint the jury pool and other prosecutions.\nBut nice way to stoke a bit more emotional response out of creating ambiguity",
">\n\nOnly a problem if said DA does NOT indict, try, convict and JAIL Marmalade Moses. They USE the stuff the Grand Jury found, no problem. The DA decides to CONCEAL said stuff, BIG problem.",
">\n\nGrand jury is never public until it goes to trial.",
">\n\nNot in Georgia and their 2-grand-jury system apparently",
">\n\nI don't think he knows about second grand jury, Pip.",
">\n\nI never say \"lol\" but I actually lol'd a bit, so I think an LOL is merited here. LOL.",
">\n\nTired of waiting for justice? I sure am.",
">\n\nThe reason is: she wants the state and federal indictments to remain separate, because no one can pardon the state conviction. If a Republican becomes president, he or she would be able to pardon Trump for the federal conviction.",
">\n\nAdd a fucking \"yet\" to the title.\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the public to see it YET, until the prosecution etc.",
">\n\nReleasing it before charges are even levied taints the jury pool and gives Trump's lawyers a way to pack the jury(ies) with MAGA.",
">\n\nHow could they even pick an unbiased jury in this country? You’re either MAGA or you’re absolutely not.",
">\n\nWe've already seen MAGA people on juries shield those in the Trump orbit from culpability. On the flipside, when that happened, another MAGA person on the same jury called bullshit strongly and got the person to relent. This case study shows that Trump likely won't be able to be fully shielded, but perhaps will gain the benefit of a partial political shield in the courtroom.",
">\n\nThe media banding together to push for a reveal irks me. They do such a poor job at everything except trying to generate ratings that I hate that they get to call their activities as supporting \"public interest.\" \nThey do nothing to educate the public. They only incite, tease, mislead but never inform. The public can wait a little bit to have this information. What are we going to do with it? It is not going to change anyone's mind about anything. Even if there is someone who doesn't have a hard and fast opinion on trump who will review this information and changes their mind, it won't do anything for the millions of other people who either want the guy convicted or exonerated in court.",
">\n\nAtlanta DA doesn't want the special grand jury report public because trump and his minions have a nasty habit of harassing witnesses.",
">\n\nWont brian kemp, or the next republican governor of georgia, just pardon trump if he is actually convicted of something?\nSame thing with any federal indictments\nRepublicans have a long track record of party over law/people. They will protect their own, especially with trump.",
">\n\nGeorgia is one of the few states where the governor does not have pardon power. There is a state clemency board. \nAlso, there is a minimum time served before you are even eligible to be considered (and it's multiple years).\nFinally, the appeals courts only can order a retrial to correct improper procedure (say, ruling out certain pieces of evidence), not throw out the whole thing. \nIn other words, a conviction in Georgia is much harder to get out of than a federal one, or indeed in nearly any other state.\nI don't think Willis will end up indicting djt, but I hope I'm wrong.",
">\n\nI did not know that, thank you.",
">\n\nThis is NOT an accurate headline. \nThe DA wants the report released — just not until she makes her decisions around indictments. \nAnd that is a perfectly reasonable stance .",
">\n\nMakes sense if there is to be an indictment coming. You can't let trump baby make the case of a prejudiced jury against him because the information is out there. I want to see everything too, but damn, I'll wait if someone will actually hold him to accountability. I can see the findings after or during the trial. I just want that pos to pay for his crimes; for trying to destroy and continuing to have a hand in the ongoing destruction attempts of this country.",
">\n\nWhy. We all know exactly what happened.",
">\n\nIf they plan on scuttling the investigation, that shit needs to go public. If they withholding pending charges/trial that’s fine. If it goes to trial all the important information should come out during the trial.",
">\n\nFine. Indict already!",
">\n\nNot yet. You forgot that part.",
">\n\nBefore the Orange One gets sent to Hell I want to see live video of him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffed and chained to the other prisoners. Shuffling down the hall to yet another sentencing hearing.",
">\n\nProsecutors are allowed to conduct a grand jury investigation without sharing the details of the investigation until they are ready to hand down indictments. The statement that they are imminent is not even necessary. It’s not the judges investigation nor the judges decision. It would be appealed and lose even if the judge tried to act like a prosecutor.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!",
">\n\nIf by law it should be public then it should be public. If there's reluctance to relay the findings then obviously relaying the information goes against certain political agendas",
">\n\nTranslation: theyre trying to come up with a lie",
">\n\nIt is important to keep a case secret. How people don't grasp this I don't understand. \nThey never open the books on RICO case, and this is basically what we have, except with treason.",
">\n\nOh I already “see” the right spin on this: “so, what are they trying to 🫣hide? Probably more Russer, Russer, Russer, one big nothing burger.”\nWhen, in reality, she may be closer to indicting trump for the first time in his entire criminal career and for RICO charges.",
">\n\nBECAUSE THE CASES AGAINST SHITLER ARE STILL ONGOING.\nDuh.",
">\n\nI mean yes, that’s how grand jury’s work. For better or worse they are not public like a trial….",
">\n\nI think that means she's planning on indicting him. Why would she want to give his lawyers a heads up on what evidence they have against him?",
">\n\nThe public deserves to hear what trump tried to do here. We’ve all heard the “phone call from hell” and now need to see the evidence against trump and his merry band of dipshits.",
">\n\nThis title leaves out the reason, she doesn’t want the report released until after indictment decisions are announced. Which she says are imminent.",
">\n\nSounds like a boring sensible reason not to release it too early.",
">\n\nPublic opinion is not a legal indictment. As long as the DA is ready to indict, I don’t see a problem.",
">\n\nHeadlines are a helluva drug",
">\n\nOur democracy is damaged and in need of repair under the heading of trust.\nThis psycho Trump took the classic fascist pathway dividing the nation while exploiting the relatively new platform known as the Internet and its mass reaching social media to ply his narcissist freak show. Now Trump's spectacle has spawned any number of filthy emulators, the names of which you all know and the media henchmen like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones and the Fox Noose creeps.\nThe only answer that satisfies justice with the promise to re-instate our Democracy as irrefutable including the well challenged 2020 POTUS election, is to take this filthy fascist psycho Trump and his surrogates before the full fury of the law. If Trump and his co-conspirators do not meet with the full extent of the law, next time the insurrection won't fail.",
">\n\nGrand juries are supposed to be secret",
">\n\nWake me up when Trump goes to trial or pleads guilty.",
">\n\nI feel like Green Day should Remake Wake Me up When September Ends with this idea",
">\n\n\"The state understands the media's inquiry and the world's interest, but\n we have to be mindful of protecting future defendants' rights,\" Willis \nsaid. \nShe doesn't want to violate anyone's rights because that's how a good defense attorney gets cases thrown out. She wants to nail each and every one of treasonous assholes.",
">\n\nHow is she violating a defendant’s rights by releasing the evidence that shows he broke the law?",
">\n\nIt might be something related to putting together a jury that hasn't been tainted.",
">\n\nGiven the law and the grand jury’s vote to release their report, I don’t really understand why the DA thinks she has a solid case for not releasing it.",
">\n\nAs a stakeholder of America, the employer of all public employees; WHY the fuck would I care a mouth full of spit about what they want.\nThey can produce the public records or be removed.",
">\n\nAny grand jury decisions involving PUBLIC officials should have their results be just that: PUBLIC.",
">\n\nHunter's dong first, please. The nation needs that phallus if we're to possibly heal and move forward.",
">\n\nIs it? I thought it wasn't readily available, and I'm not about to search to find it. I'll just take your word on this one.",
">\n\nI think the majority of maga cult members all have his Baloney Pony saved on their laptops or phones. You know for pure research purposes of course.",
">\n\nOr asking for a friend.....",
">\n\nHonestly sounds like a dud. The fact she’s trying to build up PR is worrying.",
">\n\nScrew the Atlanta DA.",
">\n\ntranslation. we do not want the country to know how heinous trump and company truly are",
">\n\nWhy not? We had to live through it and too many suffered threats of violence and actual violence because of Trump.",
">\n\nIf it's released, the Defense has a strong argument to have the trial moved? Maybe?",
">\n\nSo",
">\n\nOf course they don’t",
">\n\nGod is she a master of suspense. Fine, for the reasons laid out in the article, I'm in. We've waited this long. I swore up and down since 2016 that Trump would commit crimes as President, lose reelection to a moderate in 2020, and be exonerated from his presidential crimes in 2023.\nAnd shit, I'd happily be wrong about the last one.",
">\n\nPursuing facts is apparently a liberal practice.",
">\n\nI think that's called a coverup",
">\n\nAs far as I am concerned, this is most definitely in the public interest, and that is why she doesn’t have to release shit until it is time. Lock that fat orange piece of shit, lies, and hatred up, and all of his little minions too.",
">\n\nI swear to god I thought that was Cardi B"
] |
And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.
|
[] |
>
What’s he saying?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing."
] |
>
Here you go:
My phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...
With many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….
That was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?"
] |
>
Holy shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!"
] |
>
This jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?"
] |
>
Everything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit."
] |
>
Not really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise."
] |
>
He got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him.
The ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg."
] |
>
You mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water."
] |
>
The Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into "multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc.
The call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant "fabricate votes out of thin air" when he technically said "find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me."
(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter).
If even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory.
I think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?"
] |
>
I think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be.
I think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said "it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!"
It doesn't matter what Trump thinks.
It does though. The words "knowingly" and "willfully" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution."
] |
>
The law in question is not "going outside appropriate channels," the law in question is "criminal solicitation of election fraud." If his intention were for Raffensperger to "find" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony.
I agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point."
] |
>
Listen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary.
But if Trump had gone "outside of the appropriate channels" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying.
With only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law."
] |
>
Fani's gonna get Ya!
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous."
] |
>
Big Fat gonna be hot 🥵
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!"
] |
>
How about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵"
] |
>
I would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one."
] |
>
We probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.
Prosecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America."
] |
>
People worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it."
] |
>
I don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind"
] |
>
I care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax."
] |
>
What do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE."
] |
>
Everyone knows he's a criminal.
Releasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.
The DOJ needs to prosecute him now.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?"
] |
>
This is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now."
] |
>
The DOJ needs to prosecute him now.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation."
] |
>
Sure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now."
] |
>
sigh... throw it in the Could Bin
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ."
] |
>
I am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin"
] |
>
Cops, including the fbi, are maga.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations."
] |
>
"Could" is not news
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga."
] |
>
Or when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news"
] |
>
And nothing will be done.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait."
] |
>
Trump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.
She spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic.
Charges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.
It would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.
And obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially "there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”
So - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done."
] |
>
The order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are:
The classified documents case
The Georgia case
The January 6th case
The docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation.
I don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious.
The J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged."
] |
>
It could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!
The circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top."
] |
>
The only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: "See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden
and Pence did it!"
Fellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”"
] |
>
We have the right to know.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind."
] |
>
Sure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know."
] |
>
I realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial."
] |
>
Based on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?"
] |
>
Details are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate."
] |
>
fani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests."
] |
>
Yeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming"
] |
>
I really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it."
] |
>
Right? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be."
] |
>
We heard the phone call over two fucking years ago.
I am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something."
] |
>
downvote anything with "could" "should" "maybe" "might" in the headline.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system."
] |
>
The final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline."
] |
>
It will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing."
] |
>
Trial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters."
] |
>
Oops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him"
] |
>
Merrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up."
] |
>
I think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI."
] |
>
More info beyond "hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk"
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more."
] |
>
Why could be?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\""
] |
>
Could…
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?"
] |
>
Like I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…"
] |
>
Trump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??"
] |
>
Another "could be" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding."
] |
>
You don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening."
] |
>
So, no indictment? Figures.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes."
] |
>
Its debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures."
] |
>
So frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped."
] |
>
Do it
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything."
] |
>
hurry up already!
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it"
] |
>
I'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!"
] |
>
Not yet
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal."
] |
>
Funny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet"
] |
>
Lol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC."
] |
>
I feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns"
] |
>
Yes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind."
] |
>
Everything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy."
] |
>
When?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…"
] |
>
Won’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?"
] |
>
How can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences."
] |
>
Go, Fani, go!!!
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up."
] |
>
Don’t we have the audio of him asking to find 10,000 votes? What else do you need?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!"
] |
>
“Could be” - articles like this are worthless.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nDon’t we have the audio of him asking to find 10,000 votes? What else do you need?"
] |
>
With all these investigations, grand juries, special counsels; did anyone calculate how much he has costed the American tax payers financially for all this?
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nDon’t we have the audio of him asking to find 10,000 votes? What else do you need?",
">\n\n“Could be” - articles like this are worthless."
] |
>
Nothing will happen
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nDon’t we have the audio of him asking to find 10,000 votes? What else do you need?",
">\n\n“Could be” - articles like this are worthless.",
">\n\nWith all these investigations, grand juries, special counsels; did anyone calculate how much he has costed the American tax payers financially for all this?"
] |
>
And will be met with a collective yawn.
|
[
"And of course, Trump is confessing again on Truth ahead of the hearing.",
">\n\nWhat’s he saying?",
">\n\nHere you go:\nMy phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia, and a second call which the Marxists, Communists, Racists, and RINOS don’t even want to talk about, were “PERFECT” calls. Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line. I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election, which evidence proves it was. I won Georgia by a lot, but only needed a small number of votes from that total number. They cheated in many ways including STUFFING Ballots, ALL CAUGHT LIVE ON TAPE...\nWith many people on the line on what was a PERFECT call protesting the Rigged Georgia Election, which I have a clear right to do, and in fact an obligation to do since I made the call as President, how come not one person said, while on the call, that I acted inappropriately, or made a statement of protest at what I said, & then slammed down the phone. Not one, even with so many opposing people, lawyers, and others on the line. NO ADMONISHMENT at all. We nicely agreed to speak again….\nThat was the call to Georgia. It was PERFECT, nothing done or said wrong. We agreed to continue our conversation at a later date. The other call, that was probably taped by them illegally, was so good that when the Washington Post heard it, they did a retraction and apology because they were fed false information, perhaps by the Secretary of State’s office, and they were angry about it! The Election in Georgia was RIGGED AND STOLEN. We have all the evidence needed. That is the CRIME!",
">\n\nHoly shit, he's still spouting the same bullshit he did from day one?",
">\n\nThis jackass hasn't changed his tune in years. It's the same dribble of bullshit.",
">\n\nEverything he is doing and say are actually working, Until proven otherwise.",
">\n\nNot really. He's no longer useful and the right wing media machine that brought him his throngs of worshippers is starting to steer clear of him, even acknowledging they want to move on from Trump. Yes, he still holds sway over his biggliest sycophantic devotees, but it's clear that he's a lost cause to everyone else who even has a toe in reality. The S.S. Trumpanic is starting to take on water, no matter how much he denies there is an iceberg.",
">\n\nHe got to live a lavish lifestyle and became president of the United States, Attempted to overthrow the US and Still out playing golf. Heck his financial guy went to prison for him and his lawyer dropped on a sword for him. \nThe ship might be sinking, He'll die an old life peacefully. Before his feet even touch water.",
">\n\nYou mean the details like the absolutely open and shut proof in the phone call everyone on earth already heard?",
">\n\nThe Georgia investigation's scope is much wider than just the Raffensperger call. The Special Grand Jury was looking into \"multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere\" and included other calls and attempts to pressure state and local officials (by Trump and by others), the Georgia fake electors, I think some financial crimes, false statements made to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of poll workers, etc. \nThe call itself isn't as open and shut as it seems on the surface, either. The Georgia law re: solicitation of election fraud requires proof of criminal intent. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that Trump meant \"fabricate votes out of thin air\" when he technically said \"find the existing votes that were made and/or discarded illegally, resulting in the election being stolen from me.\" \n(You don't have to argue with me: I know what he really meant just as well as you and everyone else does, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in court is a different matter). \nIf even part of the jury thinks Trump may have genuinely believed the election was stolen and he was defrauded of hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, then he can't be convicted of willful solicitation of election fraud. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who has to prove Trump didn't believe a conspiracy theory. \nI think the House Committee's case did a great deal to demonstrate that Trump knew the conspiracy theories were false, but I haven't looked closely enough to see whether there's enough to show he knew at the time of the phone call which will be essential to the prosecution.",
">\n\n\nI think that's a much weaker argument for the defense than you're making it out to be. \n\nI think it's much weaker now than it was a year or two ago. With the evidence we know now, I think the defense I described is likely to lose. That's why I'm glad the various investigations have taken their time to gather a preponderance of evidence instead of prosecuting 2 years ago when everyone on Reddit said \"it's open and shut, just play the phone call and it's over!\" \n\nIt doesn't matter what Trump thinks.\n\nIt does though. The words \"knowingly\" and \"willfully\" count for a lot in the law. If the defense is able to convince a jury that Trump really believed he was asking Raffensperger to find and count genuine discarded votes and not just fabricate a number, then he did not solicit election fraud, and he cannot be convicted of it, no matter how boneheaded his belief was. Fortunately I think his case for this has seriously weakened with time and evidence and this defense is not likely to succeed at this point.",
">\n\nThe law in question is not \"going outside appropriate channels,\" the law in question is \"criminal solicitation of election fraud.\" If his intention were for Raffensperger to \"find\" existing votes that had been discarded, and not to fabricate a false vote count, then he did not solicit Raffensperger to commit a felony. \nI agree with you, of course he was wrong and guilty as fuck, and of course he knew he was lying on that phone call. I'm not defending Trump here, I'm just explaining a challenge involved in prosecuting this particular law.",
">\n\nListen, we're splitting the hairs of a hypothetical defense. I agree fully with you that Trump committed criminal solicitation of election fraud. And I think the context and the current evidence is enough to overcome an argument to the contrary. \nBut if Trump had gone \"outside of the appropriate channels\" to ask an official to find and count fraudulently discarded ballots, this would not be solicitation of election fraud, because the official finding and counting fraudulently discarded ballots would not be election fraud. His approach would be inappropriate and it might merit charges related to intimidation, etc., but it would not be criminal solicitation of election fraud. That's all I'm saying. \nWith only the call transcript/recording as evidence, two years ago, this could have been a genuine obstacle to prosecution. A surmountable obstacle, but not a sure thing. Now, because of the diligence of two years of investigations, there is (what I believe to be) a preponderance of evidence which destroys any argument that his intent was innocent or ambiguous.",
">\n\nFani's gonna get Ya!",
">\n\nBig Fat gonna be hot 🥵",
">\n\nHow about you put the traitor in prison for life? I'd like the details on that one.",
">\n\nI would just be happy f I never heard his voice, saw his face or had to read about that guy ever again. He single handedly ruin America.",
">\n\nWe probably will not see much of this report, if any, until charging decisions are reached with the regular grand jury.\nProsecutors aren't going to want specifics divulged to a potential defense or a media reaction if they can avoid it.",
">\n\nPeople worship this serial liar crybaby dunce. Still blows my mind",
">\n\nI don’t think the read Reuter’s, probably too busy watching Newsmax.",
">\n\nI care about an indictment, I can wait for details until the trial. We know much of what happened already with the J6 proceedings and prior reporting. An indictment would be big, many people, good people, maybe the best people, are saying it would be YUUGE.",
">\n\nWhat do you think will be first the trial or the moon landing?",
">\n\nEveryone knows he's a criminal. \nReleasing more info that everyone already knows won't do anything.\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nThis is the Georgia grand jury, not the DOJ investigation.",
">\n\nThe DOJ needs to prosecute him now.",
">\n\nSure, but that's probably better for a comment section concerning the DOJ.",
">\n\nsigh... throw it in the Could Bin",
">\n\nI am beginning to think nothing will happen for this, or any of the other investigations.",
">\n\nCops, including the fbi, are maga.",
">\n\n\"Could\" is not news",
">\n\nOr when they write “may” or my favorite “people raft to…” total clickbait.",
">\n\nAnd nothing will be done.",
">\n\nTrump will probably be indicted here unless Fani drops the prosecution against him. I know that's an easy thing to doubt after all these years, but I just don't see her dropping it. Things have gone too far to turn back and Trump can't afford any of the executive protections he once enjoyed, especially in a state investigation.\nShe spent almost a year subpoenaing the entire Georgia government, U.S. Congressmembers - and informed 16 fake electors, the head of the GA GOP, and Rudy Giuliani that they are criminal targets. She is also notoriously aggressive and unapologetic. \nCharges being weighed include election fraud, conspiracy, oath of office violations, racketeering and other offenses.\nIt would be shocking and mark her legacy if she went this far and didn't proceed against the investigation's obvious target, especially something that has such historical ramifications.\nAnd obtaining an indictment is not particularly difficult at this point. Only 12 out of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote to return it, and the bar is quite low - nothing like conviction. It's essentially \"there is probable cause from the evidence provided and a trial is needed to determine guilt.”\nSo - I think all roads lead to Trump getting charged here. But the place to remain skeptical and cynical is a trial and conviction. We still have a long ways to go and Trump still may never be held accountable, even if charged.",
">\n\nThe order of likelihood for both charges and conviction are: \n\n\nThe classified documents case \n\n\nThe Georgia case \n\n\nThe January 6th case \n\n\nThe docs case is pretty open and shut, I just think they're trying to determine how bad it is, which may have been difficult since he put up resistance (obstruction), which itself was a crime, and now it's complicated by Biden's docs situation. \nI don't see this whole Georgia being being tossed aside - at least someone close to trump will get some charges, but man - that call was ridiculously obvious. \nThe J6 case is being made by the seditious conspiracy convictions, and almost all that remains is the people at the very top.",
">\n\nIt could be complicated by Biden’s docs situation, if people aren’t doing their fucking jobs, but that really should not complicate anything. If Trump broke the law, enforce it. If Biden broke the law, enforce it. The law clearly makes sense, we don’t need to repeal it, so just fucking enforce it!\nThe circumstances are clearly vastly different, and that should probably affect how they’re responded to. If anyone doesn’t like that, the response from prosecutors should be “Ok, I don’t give a shit about your feelings.”",
">\n\nThe only way it should theoretically complicate Trump's docs case is that it would come down to 12 jurors' understanding of our judicial system, which Trump's lawyers, I'm sure, would soil a bit to ensure they understand that it's no big deal and thus, not really a crime: \"See? It's not such a big deal and happens all the time! Even Biden \n and Pence did it!\" \nFellow citizens have proven how dumb and susceptible they are, so that's what I meant by complicated, since the DOJ would have to build their prosecution with that in mind.",
">\n\nWe have the right to know.",
">\n\nSure, but I'd rather it come out as part of the trial.",
">\n\nI realize with trumps money and knowledge of misuse of our legal system this will take time but, Just do something, anything, please. How long must this go on?",
">\n\nBased on prior outcomes, a few peons get thrown under the bus and the principals skate.",
">\n\nDetails are nice, but let's have some indictments and arrests.",
">\n\nfani willis basically just said this should be kept secret to be fair to future defendants based on the contents, pretty much saying that charges WILL be coming",
">\n\nYeah, everyone is talking a good game. However, I think most of us will only believe it when we see it.",
">\n\nI really doubt it. Mainly because the DA asked for it not to be.",
">\n\nRight? No reason to hide the inevitable. I am thinking no incitements now, but maybe they can use the testimony in a Federal case if anyone every decides to actually do something.",
">\n\nWe heard the phone call over two fucking years ago. \nI am so sick of this shit. Every time this criminal doesn't get charged it's an indictment of the US justice system.",
">\n\ndownvote anything with \"could\" \"should\" \"maybe\" \"might\" in the headline.",
">\n\n\nThe final report from a Georgia grand jury investigating then-President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat in the state's 2020 election could soon be publicly released, depending on the outcome of a Tuesday court hearing.",
">\n\nIt will make jury selection much more difficult. Easier for trump to claim a trial in DC would be prejudiced because FL people are much less likely to have been exposed to it, only having watched Fox News, and thus his supporters.",
">\n\nTrial would be in Georgia, since this would be state charges against him",
">\n\nOops! You're right. I was thinking documents. It's hard to keep up.",
">\n\nMerrick Garland is bracing himself to do nothing. It will take much resolve and patience, but no one can do nothing like Merrick. Every day, he demonstrates the resolve of great leaders like Neville Chamberlain and King Louis XVI.",
">\n\nI think James Buchanan is a good comp here, they both coddled an insurrection and invited more.",
">\n\nMore info beyond \"hey could you find me some more votes that could accidentally fall out of this envelope of money I just set on your desk\"",
">\n\nWhy could be?",
">\n\nCould…",
">\n\nLike I know it’s joked about a lot, but does he not look conspicuously orange??",
">\n\nTrump is bleeding… bleeding…. And bleeding.",
">\n\nAnother \"could be\" piece. Nothing ever definite. We all saw this as it was happening.",
">\n\nYou don’t have to wait.. he just asked whoever picked up the phone in Georgia to find him 12k votes.",
">\n\nSo, no indictment? Figures.",
">\n\nIts debatable. Da wants it delayed it sounds like. But not stopped.",
">\n\nSo frustrating. Seems like there are literally no consequences for anything.",
">\n\nDo it",
">\n\nhurry up already!",
">\n\nI'd say keep the details under wraps. Don't want to be accused of tainting the jury pool. Give him a completely fair trial and let all the details out in court. Prevent an appeal.",
">\n\nNot yet",
">\n\nFunny to see this article immediately after reading an article about the Georgia DA WILL NOT BE MAKING THIS PUBLIC.",
">\n\nLol ever since he announced he was gonna run again the anti trump stuff has been in full force, it’s weird they kinda sorta turned in joe too. Why is America controlled by clowns",
">\n\nI feel like all these publications are an attempt to slowly condition his little yet unstable group of remaining supporters into understanding he will be imprisoned. Jan6 committee have concluded, they’ll definitely convict him for it. No other way in my mind.",
">\n\nYes this. Nothing sticks though it's kinda crazy.",
">\n\nEverything he was planning on doing was already shown. We heard the phone call…",
">\n\nWhen?",
">\n\nWon’t happen. And if it did, there will be no consequences.",
">\n\nHow can any lawyer work for this guy? He never shuts up.",
">\n\nGo, Fani, go!!!",
">\n\nDon’t we have the audio of him asking to find 10,000 votes? What else do you need?",
">\n\n“Could be” - articles like this are worthless.",
">\n\nWith all these investigations, grand juries, special counsels; did anyone calculate how much he has costed the American tax payers financially for all this?",
">\n\nNothing will happen"
] |
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