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Tut tut it looks like rain
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\""
] |
>
Pretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a "serious violation of international practice".
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain"
] |
>
I agree.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\"."
] |
>
Me, too.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree."
] |
>
Quick question:
Why wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too."
] |
>
Sometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?"
] |
>
This. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen."
] |
>
there were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know."
] |
>
I know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first"
] |
>
trump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down."
] |
>
Nah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi"
] |
>
Why is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response?
Army General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”
“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely”
Seems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏"
] |
>
Because republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response."
] |
>
Absolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond."
] |
>
1,000%
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3."
] |
>
"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it"
Straight to "how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over"
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%"
] |
>
How can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated.
Not even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\""
] |
>
Also entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol."
] |
>
Or the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law."
] |
>
Kind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it"
] |
>
But it was an accident!
/s
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it."
] |
>
The EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s"
] |
>
The EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision
Which is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to
and the pilot of the Chinese jet died
They claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.
It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.
It could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3."
] |
>
You know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying "it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response "s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n"
Big flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't."
] |
>
Chill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho"
] |
>
Also run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities."
] |
>
Balloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon."
] |
>
It will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium."
] |
>
My mom just dropped this line:
"This only happened because we have a weak president."
When I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the "entitled to my own opinion" card.
I can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come."
] |
>
My dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?"
] |
>
I spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used."
] |
>
Maybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day."
] |
>
Honestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated."
] |
>
Those are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican."
] |
>
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big "No-No".
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society."
] |
>
Send a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\"."
] |
>
Imagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned.."
] |
>
the world went crazy after 9/11.
It was really different before then
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”"
] |
>
It was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then"
] |
>
It really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for "the future". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there."
] |
>
I was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.
So I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again."
] |
>
A civilian spy balloon?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth."
] |
>
If you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?"
] |
>
Hold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately."
] |
>
if they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.
jzeesh.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!"
] |
>
Probably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh."
] |
>
I thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series."
] |
>
They can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms"
] |
>
Oh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct."
] |
>
I'm really getting a kick out of all the "some company's property" whining from China.
I mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for "it doesn't exist."
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway."
] |
>
How many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\""
] |
>
None. China has no actual private companies.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?"
] |
>
China would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies."
] |
>
They wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace"
] |
>
Lmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people."
] |
>
China is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down."
] |
>
International practice these nuts, Jack
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this."
] |
>
I just read this in Biden's voice
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack"
] |
>
Nobody fucks with joe Biden
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice"
] |
>
This is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden"
] |
>
But they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see?
/s just in case.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea"
] |
>
How dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case."
] |
>
I'm sorry, what?
We shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.
Eat me.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon."
] |
>
I wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, "We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass."
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me."
] |
>
Seriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\""
] |
>
There they go threatening "repercussions" for their own fuck up.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?"
] |
>
It’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up."
] |
>
You know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china."
] |
>
That's fucking hilarious. "You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!"
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos."
] |
>
Are they fucking serious?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\""
] |
>
"serious violation of international practice"
Lol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?"
] |
>
LMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?
China is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean."
] |
>
Tried? They did in 2001...
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace."
] |
>
MAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001..."
] |
>
Of course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!"
] |
>
So basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump."
] |
>
Pretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US."
] |
>
Dark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for "Go Fuck Yourself!"
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”"
] |
>
Put down the meth pipe China.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\""
] |
>
CCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China."
] |
>
Dear china…..go fuck yourself
Respectfully
Uncle Sam
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing."
] |
>
Thanks uncle
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam"
] |
>
I’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle"
] |
>
but it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either"
] |
>
Repercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course..."
] |
>
I hate to burst their bubble 😂
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?"
] |
>
Shots fired
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂"
] |
>
USA: "What are you gonna do about it?"
China: sniff "nothing"
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired"
] |
>
Whatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\""
] |
>
Says the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they "annexed" by building islands.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same."
] |
>
US needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands."
] |
>
Gotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.
Having a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol."
] |
>
"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited"
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty."
] |
>
You’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\""
] |
>
Piss off, China
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?"
] |
>
China: “it’s a weather ballon that blew off course. It’s worthless ”
US: “ok well we think it’s a surveillance device and it’s in our air space. We’re going to destroy it after it enters open water to avoid any unnecessary casualties”
China: “how dare you”
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?",
">\n\nPiss off, China"
] |
>
China: how is it our fault that the jet stream just happens to flow over your missile silos and sometimes stalls out right over one??
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?",
">\n\nPiss off, China",
">\n\nChina: “it’s a weather ballon that blew off course. It’s worthless ”\nUS: “ok well we think it’s a surveillance device and it’s in our air space. We’re going to destroy it after it enters open water to avoid any unnecessary casualties”\nChina: “how dare you”"
] |
>
Spoiler alert China. You're not special.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?",
">\n\nPiss off, China",
">\n\nChina: “it’s a weather ballon that blew off course. It’s worthless ”\nUS: “ok well we think it’s a surveillance device and it’s in our air space. We’re going to destroy it after it enters open water to avoid any unnecessary casualties”\nChina: “how dare you”",
">\n\nChina: how is it our fault that the jet stream just happens to flow over your missile silos and sometimes stalls out right over one??"
] |
>
Keep your “civilian” aircraft out of our sovereign airspace and maybe there wouldn’t be such a harsh response.
As a South Carolinian was proud to see it get shot down off our coast. Who knew a balloon would create such unity between people.
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?",
">\n\nPiss off, China",
">\n\nChina: “it’s a weather ballon that blew off course. It’s worthless ”\nUS: “ok well we think it’s a surveillance device and it’s in our air space. We’re going to destroy it after it enters open water to avoid any unnecessary casualties”\nChina: “how dare you”",
">\n\nChina: how is it our fault that the jet stream just happens to flow over your missile silos and sometimes stalls out right over one??",
">\n\nSpoiler alert China. You're not special."
] |
>
Yeah, maybe if we go to war America will forget about their silly culture war
|
[
"For the second time in my life, the USA has been mesmerized by a news story about a balloon.",
">\n\nWhich isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?",
">\n\nTo be fair, the balloon boy one was weirder. A “spy balloon” feels a little more appropriate to be concerned about. But it’s 2023, who uses a balloon?",
">\n\nThat's the part that doesn't add up about all this. The Chinese have satellites. This stupid balloon couldn't have been accomplishing much, so what even was the point? ICBM sites aren't really secret.\nPeople will bring up \"testing our defenses\" or some shit, but for what? If they'd thought it was a real threat, it would've been shot down before it ever left Alaska. None of it makes any sense.",
">\n\nWell… they get to see how long it took us to notice them. Also, just because we aren’t sure what this thing can do doesn’t mean we take their word for it that it’s nothing. Their batshit response doesn’t suggest it’s nothing. I hope we recover useful bits from the downed balloon.\nEdit: I am not making conclusions about how long or not long it took us to notice. Only saying that might be a motivation for this weird Chinese balloon shenanigans.",
">\n\nJust because we didn't go public with it at first doesn't mean it wasn't tracked from the start. We literally have radars in Hawaii and the Aleutian islands that can spot targets the size of seagulls from thousands of miles away, and distinguish between that target and background noise or even active countermeasures. We absolutely noticed it days before it crossed into CONUS airspace, and the only reason the government said anything was because it was going to get noticed by the public. Source: I used to help design security measures for radar systems like the SBX in Hawaii and the TPY-2 theater air defense radars.",
">\n\nBingo. If it was not going to get seen by the public we (the public) probably wouldn't know about it. They wouldn't tell us about it unless there was some useful political reason to do so. The idea that the military only knows things when we do is ludicrous and naïve.",
">\n\nI don't think this was political at all. This was an intelligence decision. We spotted that balloon with early warning radars when it was over the Pacific, and likely started pointing ELINT and SIGINT assets at it. \nThe benefit of potentially intercepting Chinese BLOS/SATCOM waveforms, seeing what kind of encryption/spread spectrum algorithms they may be using, and using reach-back-and-attack methods to pinpoint potential satellites, ground stations or ships the balloon may be communicating with far outweighed the risks of letting it float over CONUS. \nThe chances of it being spotted by civilians with binoculars or semi-decent telescopes and creating a panic when it couldn't be explained was the risk. So, the government finally let folks know when it was over Montana. It had already crossed the Pacific, over the Aleutians (where the Pave Paws radar station is), and then down the western coast before the government went public. \nAnnouncing it in Montana was just to keep the public from freaking out. They'd already had days to use radar, satellite and aircraft imagery, and ELINT intercepts to figure out what it was and what it's potential capabilities were. \nWhy do you think the DoD said over and over that it wasn't a threat and the risk of shooting it down over CONUS was too great? The reason is not politics. They were collecting as much intel as possible before shooting it down safely to try and recover any debris that could be used to help reverse engineer Chinese comms from the Intel they've already gathered. That data is invaluable to cyber security and jam/counter-jam reverse engineering applications for the next decade.",
">\n\nWise words.\nPeople dont get how important it is to observe and track activity before intervening. You get way more back than the owner of the device for a few more kms of intrusion.",
">\n\nNot to mention, by sending the message that you think it is no threat and letting it continue on its way, you open up the possibility that it continues recording its targeted information since the possibility of recovery may exist (by the sender). Then when it reaches the ocean and you retrieve it, you can get a better idea from its data on what exactly its intentions were.\nMy question is why was China so obvious about it? I mean, they didn’t even color the thing blue, white in the sky serves as a mirror for the sun, making the thing stick out like a sore thumb. Why would they send something so flambuoyant? I can only speculate that they wanted the attention for some reason. Either to use this event as a pretext for some ‘response’ by them or to make a point to someone in our leadership.",
">\n\nHey, we'll just send one of ours over and they can shoot it down.",
">\n\nNot the Goodyear Blimp!",
">\n\nNah. It should just be a giant Winnie the Pooh. No attachments other than a card that says \"Oh, Bother.\"",
">\n\nTut tut it looks like rain",
">\n\nPretty sure sending aerial surveillance equipment into another country's sovereign airspace is also a \"serious violation of international practice\".",
">\n\nI agree.",
">\n\nMe, too.",
">\n\nQuick question:\nWhy wasn't that enormous balloon picked up on radar and shot down long before it reached the US?",
">\n\nSometimes knowing what other countries want to know is interesting so you let it happen.",
">\n\nThis. Who says we weren't intercepting their feed all along. It's safe to assume there're plots a brew we aren't meant to know.",
">\n\nthere were 3 during Trump's presidency, this isn't the first",
">\n\nI know and he’s running his mouth he would of shot it down.",
">\n\ntrump would be saying how much he loves and trusts president xi",
">\n\nNah, Xi ain't what Trump's been Putin in his mouth... 😏",
">\n\nWhy is this being seen as an indictment on a ‘weak’ president and not a logical military response? \nArmy General “Hey there’s this Chinese spy balloon floating over our territory. We calculate its capabilities to be negligible and the intelligence risk insignificant. What do you want to do?”\n“Don’t shoot it down to early to avoid making this a bigger incident. Monitor what it’s doing. Learn what we can and then shoot it down after absolute precedent is established and it can be done safely” \nSeems like a pretty strong, rational and logical response.",
">\n\nBecause republicans will twist any situation to try to make democrats look bad, no matter how they respond.",
">\n\nAbsolutely. If they had shot it down immediately they would have called Biden a war monger who is trying to start WW3.",
">\n\n1,000%",
">\n\n\"It's a rogue weather instrument. We can't control it\" \nStraight to \"how dare you remove the big ass balloon that we definitely had no control over\"",
">\n\nHow can you even violate 'international practice'? Practice means that it's not a law or agreement, so by definition it can't be violated. \nNot even to mention allowing foreign spy balloons through your restricted airspace untouched definitely isn't international practice lol.",
">\n\nAlso entering airspace without clearance alone is a violation of practice and law.",
">\n\nOr the fact that even if it was a weather balloon they didn’t tell anyone about it",
">\n\nKind of like forcibly downing a US Navy EP-3, holding its crew hostage, stealing its military tech, and dismantling it.",
">\n\nBut it was an accident!\n/s",
">\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision and the pilot of the Chinese jet died. It was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.",
">\n\n\nThe EP-3 was brought down by a midair collision \n\nWhich is kinda what you would do if you want to get your hands on a plane you would never in a million years be able to get access to\n\nand the pilot of the Chinese jet died\n\nThey claim, and would coincidently give a great reason why those people should be held temporarily WITH the plane.\n\nIt was an accident, although the collision happened due to the jets intentionally flying close to harass the EP-3.\n\nIt could be an accident, but its equally likely it wasn't.",
">\n\nYou know that's pretty funny. I find the US response of just ignoring the balloon the first few days, not throwing a diplomatic fit and taking it down with missiles but instead saying \"it's a spy balloon, there's no cause for concern because it cannot gather any intel that Chinese satellites already cannot\", then waiting for it to go over water before shooting it down to avoid any kind of casualties as a pretty chill response. Yet here is China throwing a tantrum calling the response \"s3Ri0uS vI0lAt10n\" \nBig flex for the US to hit the thing with a million dollar missile tho",
">\n\nChill and also basically the correct response. If we could have grounded it without a missile that would have been better but all in all, we didn't over-react at all and in so doing, reduced the amount of intelligence china could gather about our response capabilities.",
">\n\nAlso run our own intelligence on the technology and capabilities of the balloon.",
">\n\nBalloon was floaty, umm, filled with unknown gas, probably helium.",
">\n\nIt will keep our best scientists and engineers busy for decades to come.",
">\n\nMy mom just dropped this line:\n\"This only happened because we have a weak president.\" \nWhen I asked her to elaborate, her sentiment was that Trump was strong, and our international diplomacy was better under him. When I contradicted her, she played the \"entitled to my own opinion\" card.\nI can't keep up with this blind ignorance anymore, ya'll. How does somebody rationalize that worldview? Can I even help her?",
">\n\nMy dad said the exact same thing today. Verbatim. I assume Tucker said it. My dad repeats everything Tucker says. If he says something I think seems strange, I’ll google Tucker’s last segment and I hear exactly what my dad is upset about with keywords repeated and all. Words my dad previously never used.",
">\n\nI spent an hour with my dad today at a sporting event. Hadn’t seen him in two months. In the 60 minutes of time he managed to bring up “being woke” twice and that our president is weak for not shooting down the balloon immediately. And if it isn’t already evident, yes he watches Fox News all day every day.",
">\n\nMaybe try “I notice when you watch Tucker you become agitated and angry? Have you noticed how your behavior changes after you watch him?” I might also say “When I hear you say mean things, I check to see what Tucker Carlson said. Most of the time I find that you are repeating what Tucker told you to believe. Have you noticed that?” Sometimes these “free thinkers” when called out for being a Tucker automaton will be embarrassed about being manipulated.",
">\n\nHonestly, this exact strategy worked on my boomer mom. She has stopped watching Fox News. Important context though is that she is a Republican but hated trump from the beginning, and she’s not religious. I’d say she truly is a moderate Republican.",
">\n\nThose are the folks we desperately need to peel away from right wing media. She’s not actively seeking to hurt people, but that training will make her stand aside while christians destroy our society.",
">\n\nI mean, correct me if I'm wrong....but flying a device, doesn't matter if it's civilian or government, over a sovereign nation's air space is a pretty big \"No-No\".",
">\n\nSend a balloon over china full of tienamen square paperwork, everything china firewall banned..",
">\n\nImagine in 20 years from now, if some kid asks you when the world went crazy and you reply, “It all started with that damn balloon.”",
">\n\nthe world went crazy after 9/11.\nIt was really different before then",
">\n\nIt was culturally as if a dark cloud descended upon us. No matter how hard the sun shines now, it's always there.",
">\n\nIt really was a different vibe. Maybe it was just because I was younger. The time before felt like living in an upbeat TV show where everything was looking up and the future looked great. Everyone was optimistic and ready for \"the future\". Since then I've slowly become 100% convinced that nothing good will ever happen again.",
">\n\nI was quite young for 9/11 so I don’t really remember a world before. But media and news became very dark in the early 2000s after 9/11, that was obvious even to 6 year old me. The fearmongering on news channels made it hard for me to sleep. They spoke in hushed tones about terrorists here, there, everywhere. War. Movies changed too.\nSo I don’t think it’s just romanticised youth.",
">\n\nA civilian spy balloon?",
">\n\nIf you zoom in on the clear pictures the device underneath the balloon is clearly wearing an I heart New York shirt so it's probably just a tourist balloon. Guided tours around the U.S' Nuclear Command and ICBM silos has been really popular lately.",
">\n\nHold fire hold fire! He’s got a fucking pin from the 9/11 memorial!!! Hold fire!!!",
">\n\nif they wanted to know the weather over Montana, they could have just asked.\njzeesh.",
">\n\nProbably super obsessed with Yellowstone, the series.",
">\n\nI thought it was because we use montana for nukes and icbms",
">\n\nThey can shove their wolf warrior diplomacy up their ass - The actions taken by the USAF are established as legal and correct.",
">\n\nOh FFS, they said it was a weather balloon, why should they care? 🙄 If it was a private company's property the loss should teach them a good lesson about properly managing their things anyway.",
">\n\nI'm really getting a kick out of all the \"some company's property\" whining from China. \nI mean, c'mon. If it really was a legitimate accident they would have thrown the company under the bus from the beginning. The fact they haven't even told us their name is code for \"it doesn't exist.\"",
">\n\nHow many private companies in China that are flying sophisticated high altitude balloons, that the Chinese Gov't doesnt have a controlling interest in?",
">\n\nNone. China has no actual private companies.",
">\n\nChina would have shot it down if it was a us balloon in their airspace",
">\n\nThey wouldn't have even waited for it not to be over land and endanger their people.",
">\n\nLmao what in the gaslighting master class is this. We send spy equipment over your airspace then get mad when you shoot it down.",
">\n\nChina is just doing what North Korea does. They know we were completely justified in doing this.",
">\n\nInternational practice these nuts, Jack",
">\n\nI just read this in Biden's voice",
">\n\nNobody fucks with joe Biden",
">\n\nThis is a Country who crashes their planes into our planes when we go into the South China Sea",
">\n\nBut they didn't shoot at us, so it wasn't technically an act of aggression, see? \n/s just in case.",
">\n\nHow dare you shoot down our completely peaceful and not secret at all civilian weather balloon.",
">\n\nI'm sorry, what?\nWe shot down a surveillance device in our airspace.\nEat me.",
">\n\nI wish Biden or some official would come out and say, in an official capacity, \"We've heard China's complaints, they can shove their bullshit all the way back up their own ass.\"",
">\n\nSeriously, the hypocrisy. I mean think about it, isn’t sending an aerial surveillance balloon to another country also a serious violation of international law and practice?",
">\n\nThere they go threatening \"repercussions\" for their own fuck up.",
">\n\nIt’s much easier to spy on a democratic country than a authoritarian one. I think it’s just a great opportunity for the USA to get away with increased surveillance of china.",
">\n\nYou know what else is a serious violation of international practice? Flying a spy balloon in another sovereign nation’s airspace over missile silos.",
">\n\nThat's fucking hilarious. \"You shot down our spy balloon above your country in your airspace!\"",
">\n\nAre they fucking serious?",
">\n\n\"serious violation of international practice\" \nLol they realllly struggled to justify their outrage here. Meanwhile, they've got aggressive, nonsense territorial disputes with basically half the Pacific fucking ocean.",
">\n\nLMAO. The same china that tried to knock US aircraft out of international airspace by running into them with fighter jets?\nChina is just posturing. US airspace is US airspace.",
">\n\nTried? They did in 2001...",
">\n\nMAGA was losing their minds that Biden didn't shoot this down right away - then the Pentagon said there were 3 of them that flew across the US when Trump was POTUS and he did nothing about it!",
">\n\nOf course they are upset. According to the pentagon they've been allowed to send balloons unimpeded under Trump.",
">\n\nSo basically the whole point of the balloon was to create tension with the US.",
">\n\nPretty similar to the Russian attitude toward Ukraine. Invade another country and they start fighting back and Russia is all, “Where did all this hostility come from!?”",
">\n\nDark Brandon pulls up google translate to find out the Chinese for \"Go Fuck Yourself!\"",
">\n\nPut down the meth pipe China.",
">\n\nCCP having a hissy fit just means we're doing the right thing.",
">\n\nDear china…..go fuck yourself\nRespectfully \nUncle Sam",
">\n\nThanks uncle",
">\n\nI’m quite sure China would not let a surveillance balloon float all over their country either",
">\n\nbut it's just a weather balloon that was blown off course...",
">\n\nRepercussions!? What'll they do? Stop sending knock-off/fake products?",
">\n\nI hate to burst their bubble 😂",
">\n\nShots fired",
">\n\nUSA: \"What are you gonna do about it?\"\nChina: sniff \"nothing\"",
">\n\nWhatever, China. As if you wouldn't have done the same.",
">\n\nSays the country that will attack you in previously international waters that they \"annexed\" by building islands.",
">\n\nUS needs to do the same thing. Build a couple of small islands right next to Taiwan. Call it US Pacific Islands. St. Jon. St. Jane, and St Doe. Lol.",
">\n\nGotta love China blustering and whinging about literally anything that might conceivably hurt their feelings.\nHaving a god-damn spy balloon over the U.S. violates international sovereignty.",
">\n\n\"How dare you shoot me after I came into your house uninvited\"",
">\n\nYou’d think that if China was really concerned and “regretful” about accidentally letting a weather balloon drift over US and Canadian Airspace, they’d let someone know in order to prevent an international incident?",
">\n\nPiss off, China",
">\n\nChina: “it’s a weather ballon that blew off course. It’s worthless ”\nUS: “ok well we think it’s a surveillance device and it’s in our air space. We’re going to destroy it after it enters open water to avoid any unnecessary casualties”\nChina: “how dare you”",
">\n\nChina: how is it our fault that the jet stream just happens to flow over your missile silos and sometimes stalls out right over one??",
">\n\nSpoiler alert China. You're not special.",
">\n\nKeep your “civilian” aircraft out of our sovereign airspace and maybe there wouldn’t be such a harsh response. \nAs a South Carolinian was proud to see it get shot down off our coast. Who knew a balloon would create such unity between people."
] |
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