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Damn, food would be fire.
Whoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos."
] |
>
I like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.
I think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot."
] |
>
So can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish."
] |
>
I think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community."
] |
>
this feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a "funny"
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?"
] |
>
Don't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\""
] |
>
I thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?"
] |
>
Does this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!"
] |
>
I’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?"
] |
>
Imagine you were the only white kid at a majority black school and for St. Patrick's Day they served boiled unseasoned chicken, tuna casserole, and a side of mayonnaise, and everybody's just staring at you with a sly smirk. You'd just put on a smile and enjoy the free food amirite? The food can be tasty, in a vacuum, but none of us are stupid and we all understand the context of what's happening.
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?",
">\n\nI’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄"
] |
>
Unfortunately tons of people in this thread do not understand context, in this situation but also probably in the general sense as well.
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?",
">\n\nI’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄",
">\n\nImagine you were the only white kid at a majority black school and for St. Patrick's Day they served boiled unseasoned chicken, tuna casserole, and a side of mayonnaise, and everybody's just staring at you with a sly smirk. You'd just put on a smile and enjoy the free food amirite? The food can be tasty, in a vacuum, but none of us are stupid and we all understand the context of what's happening."
] |
>
They're being purposely obtuse because they are desperately trying to draw a line in the sand for a changing society because they're scared their list of acceptable racist comments is shrinking at an alarming rate for them.
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?",
">\n\nI’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄",
">\n\nImagine you were the only white kid at a majority black school and for St. Patrick's Day they served boiled unseasoned chicken, tuna casserole, and a side of mayonnaise, and everybody's just staring at you with a sly smirk. You'd just put on a smile and enjoy the free food amirite? The food can be tasty, in a vacuum, but none of us are stupid and we all understand the context of what's happening.",
">\n\nUnfortunately tons of people in this thread do not understand context, in this situation but also probably in the general sense as well."
] |
>
Oh hell no. That’s NO accident. Fire their asses!
|
[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?",
">\n\nI’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄",
">\n\nImagine you were the only white kid at a majority black school and for St. Patrick's Day they served boiled unseasoned chicken, tuna casserole, and a side of mayonnaise, and everybody's just staring at you with a sly smirk. You'd just put on a smile and enjoy the free food amirite? The food can be tasty, in a vacuum, but none of us are stupid and we all understand the context of what's happening.",
">\n\nUnfortunately tons of people in this thread do not understand context, in this situation but also probably in the general sense as well.",
">\n\nThey're being purposely obtuse because they are desperately trying to draw a line in the sand for a changing society because they're scared their list of acceptable racist comments is shrinking at an alarming rate for them."
] |
>
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[
"If I was a student I would just want to get rid of Aramark for the food. My grade school used them and it always tasted like shit.",
">\n\nWhen I first started working at my school the food was actually “decent” they made staff lunches and most teachers would get it almost every day. The food the kids got was pretty standard school food, but it was fine. Then Aramark came in. No more staff lunches and while we are certainly allowed to buy food from the student line, I don’t know a single adult that would. It’s pretty awful. \nHowever you know Aramark’s food sucks, but the contract the school signed is also super restrictive. Home economics teachers have a hard time ordering ingredients since all food purchases must go through Aramark. The school guarantees a certain number of days where lunch is served so all half days must have lunch even if the timing makes no sense. It even restricts how we handle emergency closures. Of course now the district doesn’t have to give any benefits to underpaid “lunch ladies” so it will never go away.",
">\n\nMy wife tried to be friendly with the trustees and she was effectively run out of the job for acting like they are human beings deserving of even the basics of human decency. This was in a prison though... Not sure about their school side 🤔\nYou cannot have a kind heart and work for Aramark, apparently.",
">\n\nSchool side and prison side are probably the same side.",
">\n\nWhen my campus had them the truck's next stop after us was San Quentin prison. \nThen we changed to a cheaper food supplier :(",
">\n\nThey reportedly were serving maggot and rat infested meals in Detroit prisons, as well as food taken out of the trash. You guys made the correct choice.",
">\n\nWe’re having homemade fried catfish, instant grits, collard greens, fried breaded okra and some black eyed peas for dinner and we always have enough for company!",
">\n\nNo self respecting southerner eats instant grits",
">\n\nSo how many minutes would it take to make your grits? Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!",
">\n\nI love how any line from the movie I can hear in whoever's voice, with the exact ~~annunciation~~ enunciation and inflection.\nEdit - I no spell good.",
">\n\nThe two yoots",
">\n\nDid you say yoot?\nWhat is a yoot?",
">\n\nOh... excuse me your honor... two y o u u u t h h z z...",
">\n\nIs it possible the two defendant's...",
">\n\nPlease take this the right way. I mean this with a good heart. What would be a good menu to celebrate black heritage that wouldn't be offensive?",
">\n\nThe first thing I clicked on had fried chicken as an entree and watermelon salad as a side.",
">\n\nCause they're fucking delicious tbh. Like dude, they didn't just eat it because it was the only thing available, they ate it because it was decent good for cheap AND frying chicken is AMAZING.",
">\n\nOne of the best meals of my life was eaten in New Orleans at some lunch Buffett I found off the beaten path. I had about 7 pieces of fried chicken.",
">\n\nI literally just added stuff to make fried chicken to my instacart. Alas watermelons aren't available right now but holy shit I can't wait for a meal of fried chicken next week rofl. Prolly going cantaloupe",
">\n\nFor Cinco de Mayo, serve me tacos with a side of rice and beans. I’m Mexican American. I DO eat that and often",
">\n\nBack in the day. The mental institutions used to grow food and feed the institution. They would sell excess food to the prisons. The money received would help fund the hospital. The patients there had a job and responsibilities, giving them a sense of purpose.\nNow we have neither mental health care or home grown food. Instead we have Aramark.",
">\n\nThis sort of thing should be a teaching moment, though. Everyone eats food, so the history of food is really just... history, but through a lens that everyone can identify with.\nWatermelon was a staple crop among the freed slaves in the post-Civil War years due to being fast-growing, readily portable, and usable without infrastructure-intensive processing. That black people flocked to grow it didn't escape notice, and a whole bunch of negative stereotypes showed up almost immediately. Fried chicken, similar story. It first showed up in American in the first third of the nineteenth century, but took off after the war where it combined some Scottish frying techniques with West African seasoning styles.\nIt's okay to have a stereotypical food as part of a history month, because stereotypes are part of history, and we should examine them. It's critical to make it about the knowledge, though, and not \"oh lol yeah black people like watermelon, we'll do that.\"",
">\n\nEhh... yes and no.\nYou're right: this is a teachable moment. Stereotypes exist, and frankly we should be teaching kids about stereotypes with an eye for identifying harmful ones and not perpetuating them, while also identifying legitimate aspects of culture, and even how a thing can be both of those things depending on the context.\nBut serving stereotypes for lunch isn't the right context when you're cramming stereotypes in. Chicken and waffles? Sure. But maybe with a side of biscuits, or okra, or any number of other soul-food items that are more legitimate than stereotypical. Watermelon? Same thing, but maybe with a culturally relevant main that's not a raging stereotype.\nIt's the context that matters here. This is the school-lunch equivalent of Gabriel Iglesias' racist gift basket, except not done as a joke between good friends. It's not that any of the items are offensive in and of themselves, it's that when grouped together like that it's clearly an insensitive racial message, not an educational cultural one.",
">\n\nI'm gonna be fucking PISSED if someone serves me birthday cake for my next birthday. That shit is SO STEREOTYPICAL.",
">\n\nThat's really not a great analogy at all. \nFirst--serving birthday cake at a birthday party actually is a cultural thing. So, when living in that culture, it's not a negative stereotype, just a cultural trait.\nSecond--in some hypothetical future society where kids are being taught about US culture around the turn of the millennium, serving birthday cake at a mock birthday party would be actually teaching the kids about that culture through participation in what amounts to a cultural ritual. \nYou'd have to frame it as \"hurr durr, look at me, I'm a white guy, I'm eating birthday cake and and saltine crackers and a hot-dog aspic, now I'm going to put some mild hot sauce on a chicken wing and complain about it being too spicy\" for it to be offensive. Much like \"I'm eating what black people eat, look, fried chicken and watermelon.\"",
">\n\nI think it would be fine if the food was a part of a history lesson and taught kids that yes, these foods were stigmatized (despite being delicious). Ofcourse you couldn't even have that discussion in Texas or Florida.\nA little girl has a crush on my son,.and missed his birthday party. So she got her parents to throw my son a second birthday party. They asked me what my son's favorite food was, and besides bagel and lox, his favorite was fried chicken and watermelon (he has a summer birthday btw).\nFor years my sister refused to eat watermelon and friend chicken, around non black people because she felt like she was playing into the stereotype. So she was not happy that I told that family, what my son's favorite food was. \nWatermelon is a delicious healthy fruit, that's fun to eat, and I don't think we should let the next generation continue to be afraid of the stereotype. Especially because it's just fucking ridiculous. So they used to call watermelon's n-word apples. So fucking what.",
">\n\nWe've gotta just let comedians guide us through this shit. Dave Chapelle already did that a decade ago when he talked about fried and chicken and watermelon.\nIn the end it was like: \"Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?\" And that's true, most people love it.\nI agree with you completely. We gotta get past this stuff soon, it's really fucking up these most recent generations who don't realize how much better things got over the past few decades regarding racism. I feel like a lot of it is being undone now because people are tired of having to defend themselves in every direction.",
">\n\nI really don't think its gotten any better, in fact its gotten worse, with law makers passing laws to attack segments of the population they want to oppress.",
">\n\nThe trajectory has been bumpy for sure. I certainly feel racism is much less an issue today than it was in the 60's for example. That said, I also feel racism is worse today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's subjective.",
">\n\nthere is so much less racism in society today, but many more things are considered racist by default depending on the ethnicity of the group in question. celebratory if done by the ethnicity that’s being celebrated or another minority, performative or racist if done by white. side effects of social media and resegregation efforts tbh",
">\n\nWay less of the racism that was fought against, but new racism has popped up in its place. Much of it also comes from the side most opposed to racism, which is hilariously ironic. Then there is the divide. Despite the fact there is less racism, many people actually think it is a bigger problem than ever.\nI don't know what to do about it, I just know I am sick of it and so are plenty of others. I'd love to see the pendulum arrive to its rightful place: judge people for who they are, not what they look like.",
">\n\nComments about this make me think the watermelon stereotype isn't as prevalent as it was when I was growing up. But TLDR for anyone unaware of it, it's a Reconstruction era racism that black people had no higher ambitions than a farm animal that wants to be fed its favourite snack like a good boy.",
">\n\nBlack farmers were making money off of chicken and watermelon. White ppl made them feel guilt for being good at things they could commercialized, black farmer could get into with not much capital.",
">\n\nSame with salt. For eons the stereotype was that black ppl put to much salt on everything and ate foods high in sodium and sugar and saturated fat. Now the new cliche is black ppl proclaiming that white people dont season their food or that white peoples cooking is bland and that healthy eating should be ridiculed. Black ppl created and innovated something of their own and then here comes mainstream society to try and twist it around into a criticism of the black community.",
">\n\npretty sure the Chinese or Romans harvested salt first",
">\n\nGood tasting food in the US is the result of Black America’s influence on cooking post reconstruction.",
">\n\nIm not arguing that black Americans didn't improve food (they did), just the literal origin of salt aha",
">\n\nAramark is a reprehensible company. They do not care.",
">\n\nAt a certain point, it's not a mistake.",
">\n\nWow serving culturally relevant food during a cultural festival what a crazy controversial idea I can’t believe they did this wow.\nAmerica is devouring itself.\nEdit: To people saying racist people satirize black people eating fried chicken and watermelon. I know, no shit racist people satirize every food of every ethnicity. That doesn't make it racist for people to eat that food or serve it at a cultural festival.",
">\n\nThe first two are fine. But there's always been a problematic relationship with associating fried chicken and African Americans.",
">\n\nThere is no problem with being associated with fried chicken . That just doesn't make sense. Every race or country of people has some sort of food stereotype.",
">\n\nIt's the historical depictions that make it at issue. Do a little googling you'll find bug eyed big lipped images/cartoons of black people with watermelon and broken servile English. Yassuh boss, nossuh, ion know boss. Everyone eats watermelon now but it used to be a garbage food along with a lot of other \"traditional \" black food. Only worthy of feeding the slaves while the white people considered it beneath them. So yes that food stereotype exists but it wasn't by choice, it was forced upon people and then used as a mockery of who they were.",
">\n\nEvery culture has had its food of choice used against it.\nThere are tonnes of old magazines depicting the Irish as literal potato eating monkeys (yes, monkeys), will that stop me, an Irish person, from eating or feeling bad eating Irish potatoes, fuck no, those pricks can go fuck themselves, I'll eat a potato if I want to eat a potato.\nI won't give them or their shit a second thought.",
">\n\nThe point being it wasn't their food of choice. It was given as slops unworthy to feed those above them and then used to mock them. The Irish had a spell of similar harassment yes I'd agree. There was a time when they weren't allowed in various establishments. That period was relatively small in comparison though. However it's not even about whether it's good or not. Undeniably potatoes, chicken, watermelon are all good foods. \n It's the presumption that's just what you feed a black person. Like a new pet you got and are unsure of it's diet. Black people are above all, people. Imagine having an asian festival and only serving rice, or meatballs to Italians, lox and bagels to Jewish people. Sure those things are good but people aren't a stereotype. Jewish people like Chinese food, everybody likes pizza, Italians eat burgers. The question here is were they feeding people or feeding the stereotype stamped into their minds by their narrow world view? If you as an Irish person went to an event and everything was potatoes and Guinness might that not seem a bit presumptuous to you?",
">\n\nHonestly, and I really mean this honestly: yes it is presumptuous, but no, it is not offensive. I say this from a position of experience, I've gone to lots of events like this in high end spots and low effort locales. Some have nailed it and some have not, but I was never offended, I just put it down to normal sloppiness or, if done well, class.\nHigh end Italian events will have high end Italian cultural execution and low effort Italian events will have slightly lazy Italian cultural execution, this is just how it plays out in every other circumstance.\nBlack history month, if it takes off outside the US, or if it develops more within the US, will grow like this.",
">\n\nEven a low end execution in this case would be burgers and hot dogs. Those specific items in combination are just not acceptable simply because they have been weaponized as a denigration against a particular people. \n Shott story time, I'm a biker also I'm black. On a ride with friends who weren't of my perpetual tan, we stop at a place to cool off it's close to 100 degrees outside. We walk in and the woman behind the bar had just finished cutting a huge tray of watermelon. She absolutely lit up when we walked in and loudly announced they had watermelon with a rather strange emphasis on the word. That tone when you're trying to get a kid excited about something. Anyway, they were serving it to the people who were already there and anybody who walked in. No big deal right? Except in this case she was laser focused on me, ignoring the 4 other people who walked in with me. In her mind she absolutely knows this dark skinned guy is going to be all over this damned watermelon. She handed me the whole tray she just cut and said find a seat. \n Lest you think I'm sensitive here my friends were doing their best not to laugh at me because of how obviously focused she was on making sure that I in particular got some watermelon. They couldn't hold it in once we got to the table and at this point it's something we laugh about. So, is the watermelon itself a bad thing, no. It's hot out it cools you down and tastes good. Is the fact that she ignored 4 white people to hand the tray to the black guy? Well that's where it gets a bit questionable. That's the fine distinction in this meal choice. Feeding a stereotypical idea of who they imagine a people are defined by.",
">\n\n\"This year it will work. Trust me.\"",
">\n\nWho complained? A handful of people on Twitter?",
">\n\noutrage culture is getting exhausting.",
">\n\nAramark is shit all around",
">\n\nChicken and waffles with watermelon sounds really good.",
">\n\nSeriously. Watermelon and Kool Aid? Yeah that’s pretty bad. But who the hell is gonna complain about chicken and waffles? (Or bbq ribs and cornbread, for that matter?)",
">\n\nNotice, they didn’t say what the kids thought about the menu",
">\n\nIt's so easy to not do this kind of stuff.",
">\n\nI want to know if black people are mad or if this is silly white people anger. I would be sooooo happy if I was fed and kind of soul food",
">\n\nSpecifically AWFLs.",
">\n\nAll White Female Lawyers?",
">\n\nAmericans Who Fetishize Lunch?",
">\n\nSomeone messaged me, it means \"Affluent White Female Liberal\" \nIn other words, OP there was insinuating that outrage over racism is the domain of people unaffected by racism, which is a common tactic used by racists.",
">\n\nMeanwhile Florida is banning books written by black authors left and right. I think our focus in this country is so far off the mark. It’s depressing as hell. Journalists are reporting about fried chicken and totally ignoring the white nationalist movement taking over our country. Just serve the cardboard pizza and dried up potato of the day and buy a book!",
">\n\nI think when we are several generations removed from any negative stereotypes attached to something, it’s easy to not see it as a negative thing. I’m sure a lot of people just thought of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as representing beloved extended family members with the family’s recipes — no different than if they had had Caucasian faces. \nI’m sure none of the kids being served chicken and waffles were thinking: “Hmmm… chicken… something only uncultured Black people would eat so they could make a mess throwing the bones everywhere.” They probably just thought: “Yum! This is a good menu today.”\nBut considering that these things had negative connotations to those kids’ great grandparents and many adults still know about those connotations, it seems best not to serve them. But what would be appropriate to serve? Do foods exist that would have a positive connection to Black American traditions?",
">\n\nWhy they feel the need to make the effort is what puzzles me. Just make food for the students. That's it. Don't have to do gimmicks and adhere to holidays or concepts. Just.. Make the fucking food.\nLiterally no trouble to get into.",
">\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group? Chinese, but no rice? Pakistani, but no lamb? Indian but no curry?\nGet a grip here folks.",
">\n\n\nHow can you have food for \"Ethnic Group Appreciation Event\" without stereotyping the foods eaten by that group?\n\nPretty easily, actually. \n• Fried chicken, side of dirty rice, collard greens, or okra.\n• Fried rice, one or two baozi, spring roll, or a tofu dish.\n• Some type of vindaloo, a side of samosas and/or naan, maybe a small biriyani.\nThe trick is taking authentic cultural dishes and showcasing them. This is the equivalent of serving general tso's, an egg roll, and a fortune cookie with a little shallow-cone straw hat like an umbrella in your drink.\nThese foods in particular--watermelon and fried chicken--are essentially the default racist foods when talking about black people, at least in the US. Putting them onto a plate by themselves and not making an effort to include other dishes authentic to the culture is the racist part, not the serving of those foods in the first place.",
">\n\nfried rice, spring rolls and tofu are just as stereotypical as general tsos' egg rolls and a fortune cookie... (chinese american food was made by chinese/asian immigrants fyi even the fortune cookie although origins are a bit vague for that). And as a chinese immigrant I would be perfectly happy eating any of it. \n\nChinese people don't have as deep seeded racism as black people in the US of course. That's probably the main issue. Most other cultures don't have that history so we're fine with most of these stereotypes as long as they aren't directly negative in and of themselves.",
">\n\ni would've loved this combo tbh",
">\n\nThe Kool-Aid was a little much. I remember whoever catered our college having collard greens and fried chicken in February. This was back in 2007",
">\n\nI used Aramark for years, they did the laundry for my restaurant, I had NO CLUE they sold food.",
">\n\nCan't wait until the find out about every single military dining facility. /s",
">\n\nBeing offended is internal. We are offended because we deem it offensive. We have the power to not be offended by something. If you said to me that my mother was a whore, I decide whether or not that bothers or offends me. \nI’m Asian and If my cafeteria served egg rolls and fried rice and fortune cookies on Chinese new year, I’d be stoked.",
">\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food? Those are like the two most delicious foods the world, i don’t know too many people who don’t like either of those, I would love to have that at school. (It’d be better than the stale and plastic pizza and mozzarella sticks they served at my school)",
">\n\n\nMaybe I’m dumb, but why is watermelon and fried chicken the racist food?\n\nBoth of those have historical connotations to them. Watermelon in particular was a big trope back in the day when people were dressing in blackface and putting on minstrel shows. Fried chicken less so, but not \"not\" either. The fact that both of them have existing Wikipedia pages pointing out their racial associations is pretty good evidence of this.\nBoth of those foods have legitimate roots in culturally black food; watermelons actually were a big crop in the post-Emancipation sharecropping era, and fried chicken is a staple of soul food. \nBut they're also probably the foods that are most commonly part of racial stereotypes against black people, so picking them specifically instead of one of them plus other soul-food dishes is basically like saying \"I don't know shit about what black people eat, they like fried chicken and watermelon, right? What about a drink, is grape soda going too far?\"",
">\n\nCan we stop being upset that people are upset?",
">\n\nwhat, no grape Koolaid?",
">\n\nThe outrage machine keeps chugging along. \nIf ANYONE thinks that this particular battle could result in things being more fair/equitable for anybody... they need a reality check. Why is the news even reporting on this? Trump was and is a pos, but he was right in criticizing media outlets (but for the wrong reasons). They want us to lose hope and live in fear, just like politicians! They're the problem, not eating fried chicken and watermelon.",
">\n\nI thought briefly that this could be due to Aramark being a foreign company, meaning well but not being fully up to speed with American cultural context but no... Aramark is headquartered in Philadelphia... There's no excuse.",
">\n\n\nA vendor that provides food service to schools apologized for the \"unintentional insensitivity\" of its Black History Month menu, echoing similar apologies it has made for more than a decade amid backlash over racially insensitive menus.\n\nHow can it be unintentional if they've been using insensitive stereotypes in their menus for more than a decade? How many times do they have to apologize before they get it? Either fix it or just admit they're stupid or racist. One of those two would be better for business because whether it's racist or not is not the point. It's how it is perceived by their customers. What a dumb company.",
">\n\nMight be racist, but I bet everyone loved eating that vs eating cardboard pizza and tots",
">\n\nI'm biracial, and I love fried chicken and watermelon. Waffles I like when I'm in the mood. But you just don't pair those foods together and label it a celebration of Black History Month. And if Aramark has incidents of doing this previously, I'd say they know exactly what they're doing and they need to stop.",
">\n\nAll these years I thought I like chicken because it was delicious! Turns out, I’m genetically predisposed to it.",
">\n\nI like how they apologized as if they didn’t know what they did, it was not an accident",
">\n\nif i go to a black owned soul food restaurant all of this will be on the menu",
">\n\nSooo we can’t eat these foods in February? I happen to like chicken, waffles and watermelon. That’s racist now?",
">\n\nNobody said anyone can't eat those foods in February, but there's a major difference between you choosing to go eat those things and kids being served that at school. \nThere's nothing wrong with any of those foods, but cramming them together as a \"black history month\" meal is tone-deaf at best.",
">\n\nHow about we switch friend chicken with grilled and celebrate good nutrition and the fight against childhood obesity.",
">\n\nIt’s not like they’re doing god damned chicken and waffles, and watermelon.\nClicks article\nWell fuck me runnin’, I stand corrected",
">\n\nIs serving kosher food for jews racist?",
">\n\nOh cmon seriously? People r pissed about this???",
">\n\n>I love this food, stop serving it!",
">\n\nWhat next? Vendor apologizes for using cotton sheets during black history month?\nAnyone who thinks this is not ridiculous is being ridiculous.",
">\n\nTo make your example comparable, the vendor would need to market the cotton sheets as \"special cotton sheets in recognition of black history\"...",
">\n\nOkay? Special cotton sheets with related insignia for month of black history that you got offended of because it's cotton? \nYes it is ridiculous",
">\n\nI think you're starting to get it. Yes, marketing cotton sheets for black history month would be ridiculously offensive",
">\n\nNo, it would not be. And people like you are the reason that people like me who want united healthcare, women freedom over your body, and so on and so forth shy away from democratic party. Because wakos like you make it a package deal, where one has to accept the whole set of values or go to GOP.",
">\n\nThose things taste good but Black History Month is not the time.",
">\n\nWhat other foods and months have similar blackout periods?\nPrior to this thread, I didn't know anything about poor black farmer eating habits or the 1915 silent film called \"Birth of a Nation\". Is there a list of which foods/timeframes might be considered rude? For example; should street tacos be avoided during Hispanic heritage month?\nNot being facetious here. I always thought chicken and waffles was a Texas thing because my buddy from TX introduced me to the combination. And watermelon as a desert would not have registered on my radar as a racially offensive food item.\nEdit: If someone served a meal with the intention of being mean, that's not cool. I'm interested in hearing about other cultural cuisine landmines so I can avoid offending anyone in the first place.",
">\n\nI don’t think anyone is suggesting that these things would need to be taken off the menu if they were standard items served year round. The problem is that they’re obviously not standard.",
">\n\nMaybe just stop with the \"\"\"themed\"\"\" foods lmfao",
">\n\nHow about there is nothing racist about themed food",
">\n\nI'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you because you're not aware of some of the history of racism against black people in America.\nThe sensitivities many people have to food-related stereotypes about black people can be traced back to minstrel shows. These were 19th-century American stage performances where white performers painted their faces black to imitate and caricaturize black people. In these shows, black people were often depicted as lazy, unintelligent, buffoonish, and musical. Performers painted their faces black to look like black people and used various costumes, makeup, and mannerisms to exaggerate black stereotypes. \nFood was often used as a tool to further caricature black people and reinforce negative stereotypes. Watermelon was a particularly common food that was portrayed in minstrel shows, with black characters often being depicted as excessively fond of the fruit and eating it in a gluttonous, comical manner. This depiction helped to reinforce the stereotype of black people as lazy and indulgent. Other foods, such as fried chicken and ribs, were also used to reinforce this stereotype. \nThe legacy of minstrel shows continues to shape the way that black people are perceived and represented in American culture to this day.\nThat's why people are upset over this. And the fact that it occurs over and over again shows how deeply embedded the legacy of minstrel shows are in our culture.",
">\n\nmaybe im just uninformed but the supposed racist implications of this food would never have occurred to me\nedit: im not saying it's not racist i just meant i see how that nuance could be missed. but i'm not american so idk",
">\n\nvery uninformed if you don't know the racist fried chicken and watermelon stuff.....",
">\n\nfirst of all i'm not american, second of all i knew about fried chicken but that could be something schools serve all the time. never knew watermelon and waffles were anything racist",
">\n\nwe learn new stuff every day my man. here in America we have racism down to a science. it's awesome that people from other countries need some of the ridiculousness explained. shows how dumb it all is.",
">\n\nWatermelon flavored water had me laughing idk why. Like it’s so offensive it’s almost hilarious at that point? Who would’ve thought that was even slightly appropriate? Also it just sounds disgusting to drink.",
">\n\nOk, so I'm white as flour, and I've ordered collard greens once, from a food truck that served vegan variations of soul food.\nChicken was amazing, but collard greens... was it just one bad experience, is it acquired taste, or is it just awful all around and it's cherished as a part of culture because it was one of few crops people were allowed to grow?",
">\n\nNo you're spot on. Collared greens are gross.",
">\n\nThis whole comment thread is exactly why history and teaching *complete history is important.",
">\n\nAre there any black people that can weigh in on this as to whether or not this is offensive? Chicken and waffles is soul food no?",
">\n\nI don't have any problem with chicken and waffles being used to represent African American cuisine. It isn't what comes to my mind when I think of \"black food\" since I don't know how many black grandmamas are actually serving chicken and waffles for Sunday dinner as opposed to just eating it at a restaurant for Sunday brunch. But it isn't an offensive offering. \nBut watermelon is stretching it, I think. It has been my experience that black people enjoy watermelon just as much as anyone. It's not any more \"black\" than apples are \"white\". But it is a stereotype originally entrenched by minstrel shows. I don't think black people are wrong for not wanting to be reminded of that history when they are eating lunch.",
">\n\n\nBut watermelon is stretching it\n\nThe watermelon was just one of several options no?\n\"Students at Nyack Middle School in New York were served chicken and waffles with a choice of watermelon for dessert\"\nI assume the choice was watermelon or other fruits and not watermelon or nothing.",
">\n\nAt first, I was like.. could it have been an unfortunate coincidence? And then this… nope, definitely not. \n“Students at New York University demanded the school cut its ties with Aramark after its Black History Month menu in 2018 included barbecue ribs, cornbread, collard greens, Kool-Aid and watermelon-flavored water, according to The New York Times.”",
">\n\nAt what point does endless repetition of the 'hur hur black people and watermelon' thing stop being an accident.\nLike, you pull that once, alright maybe you aren't aware of the whole mess there. You pull that five, ten times? Um.",
">\n\nOf course - Chicken and Waffles and Watermelon happen to be delicious. Maybe the Children would like Liver and Onions?",
">\n\nI work in a highschool, I know our menus are setup yearly and are verified and checked by multiple people, I wonder how this slipped through the cracks, guess I'll keep an eye on this story.",
">\n\nLong line of people afraid to say no to their boss I suppose",
">\n\nwith how schools work yeah, that's one of the bigger issues lots of us face.",
">\n\nIt's soul food. When too woke becomes dumb.",
">\n\nIt's specifically about the watermelon. During Reconstruction former slave owners created a PR campaign to make black people seem \"simple\" by creating a bunch of media implying that all the slaves needed to be happy was some watermelon.",
">\n\nEverything is racist nowadays even food lol",
">\n\nFeigned ignorance is still ignorance, man.",
">\n\nNo actually feigned ignorance isn't ignorance.",
">\n\nSounds damnnn good to this pecker wood.",
">\n\n“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”",
">\n\nSounds like what happens when you plan a menu based on what you googled what black people eat but you failed to consult with actual black people about whether or not they want to be portrayed that way.\nI'm 99 percent certain you have to walk a very careful line when talking about stereotypes, history and culture.\nA generic food offering from a corporation is probably not the ideal way to talk about black food unless they're working directly with black chefs to plan these meals.\nAll they have to do is not connect meal service to black history month and nobody would question why the kids getting a chicken sandwich because it's just a chicken sandwich.",
">\n\nWhat is the problem with chicken, waffle and watermelon?",
">\n\nImagine serving a single baked potato to people on St Patrick's day.",
">\n\nNo beer?",
">\n\nTake that back!\nPint of stout. The black stuff.",
">\n\n\"Guinness is food\"",
">\n\nOh come on, how tf is serving chicken and waffles with watermelon an accident? That took work. \nThat's also some high quality food compared to the actual human shit these companies typically feed kids. Like the quality they only bring out for holidays. This was 100% Intentional cartoonishly racist decisionmaking.",
">\n\nIf only the decision makers had POC they could consult before making such tone-deaf gaffes.\nI remember McDonalds had a brief advertising campaign where the tagline was \"I'd hit that!\" \nThis was long after they had to remove all of those coke-sniffing-shaped coffee stirrers. 🙄🙄🙄 😅😅",
">\n\nWas the same guy responsible for McDonald’s “adult cream pie” here in Japan?",
">\n\nHA! I hadn't heard that one.",
">\n\nPerhaps he’s like the Littlest Hobo.\nHe arrives. Creates saucy marketing. And then moves on, with slow motion explosions in the background behind him :-)",
">\n\nA black friend when a local restaurant had a similar menu for black history month: \"Man, what kind of racist shit is that! It was good though.\"",
">\n\nThe smithsonian black history department with a black chef made a similar menu as well (although not the grape drink. that's a bit much).",
">\n\nThere is nothing ethnic about fried chicken or watermelon. I remember my great grandmother’s fried chicken and sitting out in the yard spitting seeds afterwards. Every dinner had ham, black eyed peas and cornbread. We ate the leftovers for supper.",
">\n\n\nWhy isn't there a White History Month\n\npretty sure there's 11 of em",
">\n\nMore latent racism packaged as mistakes.",
">\n\nSo no one likes Chicken and Waffles?",
">\n\nRight? Who likes fried chicken? Shame.",
">\n\nI guess no egg rolls, shrimp fried rice and lo-me in for Asian heritage month",
">\n\nMy kid's school has a regular rotation of menu items. I just checked it - on the first they had a chicken waffle sandwich or a pizza as the main entree options. They will have that again on the 15th. They have cheeseburgers on the 10th and again on the 24th. Looking at the rest of the menu it seems like a 14 day rolling thing.",
">\n\nOk, but, I LOVE chicken and waffles.... definitely my favorite thing to order from the local bar&grill, comes with some ranch and spicy sauce, and they bake the syrup right into the waffles...SO good. Im not a fan of watermelon (ya, I'm a monster, I know) but I understand most people like it.\nWould anyone have been mad if it was served the day prior?\nWhy are chicken, waffles and watermelon considered a bad thing for black people? I've never even heard of waffles being associated with them. I'm pretty sure most people like chicken and waffles. \nIs 1/12 of the year an inappropriate time to serve fried chicken waffles and watermelon?\nI don't know what to think anymore",
">\n\nIt's the context that matters, the food is fine by itself.\nBoth watermelon and fried chicken have strong associations with both positive cultural influence and negative racial stereotypes, but they're basically \"the racist food\" mostly because they are \"the racist food.\" Fried chicken and watermelons are probably the top two things people think of when they're trying to make fun of soul food, and both used to feature heavily in the very racist minstrel shows.\nHad they served fried chicken along with a side of some other soul-food dish today and another soul-food dish plus a side of watermelon next week, that would probably be a different story--but then, it'd also be more likely that they were deliberately choosing culturally relevant foods with an aim to showcase them.\nInstead, they chose what are the de facto default racist foods and put them on the same plate, during black history month. Even if unintentional, it's a message that they care enough to be seen making a statement but not enough to actually see how that statement will be heard.",
">\n\nThis happens every year. Fire the mofos.",
">\n\nDamn, food would be fire.\nWhoever complained about this surely shot themselves in the foot.",
">\n\nI like some watermelon, collard greens and chicken though.\nI think the food itself needs to be served multiple times until it’s in the culinary menu similar how Latin foods have become a main dish.",
">\n\nSo can anyone explain why chicken, waffles and melon are offensive please I as I've never heard of them being associated with the black community.",
">\n\nI think context and intent need to matter. It just seems like people want this soul less corporation to be racist so they're racist when in reality it's just fucking food being served. Should school lunches just be bland slop every day so they don't offend someone?",
">\n\nthis feels like someone racist at Aramark has too much power and thought they could pull a \"funny\"",
">\n\nDon't get it ,there was a fried chicken and waffle restaurant in the city I worked in owned by a black family ,mainly patronized by black customers .I went a couple of times with black co-workers who raved about it for the fried chicken and waffles ,they greeted them said acted like I was invisible .I would never go on my own . So is the inexcusable part that white people served them a food they like?",
">\n\nI thought a majority of blacks love chicken and Waffles? In my early 30s I was first introduced to this By a black coworker. Had he not been talking about how good his weekend was I probably never would have known. Then theirs watermelon... Who doesn't love watermelon!",
">\n\nDoes this mean you are not allowed to serve Friday chicken to.black people lest you offend them?",
">\n\nI’m white. Like super white. I like chicken. I like waffles. I love watermelon. Someone is hungry and is offered food. What’s the problem? None until someone makes it one🙄",
">\n\nImagine you were the only white kid at a majority black school and for St. Patrick's Day they served boiled unseasoned chicken, tuna casserole, and a side of mayonnaise, and everybody's just staring at you with a sly smirk. You'd just put on a smile and enjoy the free food amirite? The food can be tasty, in a vacuum, but none of us are stupid and we all understand the context of what's happening.",
">\n\nUnfortunately tons of people in this thread do not understand context, in this situation but also probably in the general sense as well.",
">\n\nThey're being purposely obtuse because they are desperately trying to draw a line in the sand for a changing society because they're scared their list of acceptable racist comments is shrinking at an alarming rate for them.",
">\n\nOh hell no. That’s NO accident. Fire their asses!"
] |
Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.
|
[] |
>
Goodwill not displaying goodwill.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage."
] |
>
And they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill."
] |
>
More like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open."
] |
>
When it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour.
In October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage.
For now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free."
] |
>
I went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year."
] |
>
Ohio. Cruelty is the point
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole."
] |
>
Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point"
] |
>
Goodwill not displaying goodwill.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage."
] |
>
And they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill."
] |
>
More like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open."
] |
>
When it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour.
In October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage.
For now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free."
] |
>
I went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year."
] |
>
Ohio. Cruelty is the point
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole."
] |
>
|
[
"Many of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point",
">\n\nMany of them probably still continue to work at Goodwill for subminimum wage.",
">\n\nGoodwill not displaying goodwill.",
">\n\nAnd they sell all the best stuff at auction, and the stuff they do let onto the sales floor gets snapped up by scalpers the second the doors open.",
">\n\nMore like the second best stuff will get auctioned, the store owners will probably take whatever they want to keep for themselves first, before it even has time to be accounted for. Why bother paying for a $500 dress they can definitely afford when one just appeared right in front of them for free.",
">\n\n\nWhen it was passed in 1938, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) established a federal minimum wage, guidelines for overtime pay, and child labor restrictions. It also created 14(c) certificates that permit employers to pay people with disabilities less than the minimum wage. According to a 2020 report from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Americans with disabilities earn on average less than half of the federal minimum wage per hour. \nIn October 2022, at least 70,000 people with disabilities were working for 14(c) certificate holders, earning less than the minimum wage. \nFor now, Ohio retains its practice of upholding 14(c) certificates despite the Ohio legal code stating that it is unlawful for any employer to discriminate against or limit the employment opportunities of a person because of a disability. According to Dougherty, plans are underway to reintroduce the bill in the state general assembly sometime this year.",
">\n\nI went back to Ohio but my city was gone.....Ohio is a hellhole.",
">\n\nOhio. Cruelty is the point"
] |
China says it’s a weather balloon. USA says it’s surveillance. USA has it now. Someone’s story is going to have to change and how they handle it is what’s important. Not weather balloons.
|
[] |
>
Weather surveillance!
|
[
"China says it’s a weather balloon. USA says it’s surveillance. USA has it now. Someone’s story is going to have to change and how they handle it is what’s important. Not weather balloons."
] |
>
Special Op Weather Balloon
|
[
"China says it’s a weather balloon. USA says it’s surveillance. USA has it now. Someone’s story is going to have to change and how they handle it is what’s important. Not weather balloons.",
">\n\nWeather surveillance!"
] |
>
Beyond the made-for-cable-news spectacle, the entire balloon incident also speaks volumes about how little Washington and Beijing communicate, almost 22 years after the collision of an American spy plane and a Chinese fighter about 70 miles off the coast of Hainan Island led both sides to vow that they would improve their crisis management. The incident came at a moment when Democrats and Republicans are competing to demonstrate who can be stronger on China.
Read the full news analysis without a subscription here or in the link above
|
[
"China says it’s a weather balloon. USA says it’s surveillance. USA has it now. Someone’s story is going to have to change and how they handle it is what’s important. Not weather balloons.",
">\n\nWeather surveillance!",
">\n\nSpecial Op Weather Balloon"
] |
>
|
[
"China says it’s a weather balloon. USA says it’s surveillance. USA has it now. Someone’s story is going to have to change and how they handle it is what’s important. Not weather balloons.",
">\n\nWeather surveillance!",
">\n\nSpecial Op Weather Balloon",
">\n\nBeyond the made-for-cable-news spectacle, the entire balloon incident also speaks volumes about how little Washington and Beijing communicate, almost 22 years after the collision of an American spy plane and a Chinese fighter about 70 miles off the coast of Hainan Island led both sides to vow that they would improve their crisis management. The incident came at a moment when Democrats and Republicans are competing to demonstrate who can be stronger on China.\n\nRead the full news analysis without a subscription here or in the link above"
] |
Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. "Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?" He's a new bill saying they can!", "Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!"
"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!"
|
[] |
>
You are correct
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\""
] |
>
And it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct"
] |
>
How are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)
Of course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy"
] |
>
See, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal.
Now picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power."
] |
>
As a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans."
] |
>
I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do
You're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways."
] |
>
Gov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...
The special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.
DeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters."
] |
>
making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.
Seems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida."
] |
>
Texas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims
Go right ahead. The rightwing talking heads will turn on DeSantis, because his stunts helps immigrants remain in the US.
Florida can change their law, but that's not the law that is going to bite DeSantis on the ass. It's still illegal activity.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.",
">\n\n\nmaking it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.\n\nSeems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023."
] |
>
Florida Constitution Article I, Section 10, states that “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.” So how is this legal as this is literally the definition of ex post facto?
The again, the MAGA idiots just enjoy using the foundational documents as jizz tickets so this is par for the course.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.",
">\n\n\nmaking it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.\n\nSeems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023.",
">\n\nTexas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims\nGo right ahead. The rightwing talking heads will turn on DeSantis, because his stunts helps immigrants remain in the US. \nFlorida can change their law, but that's not the law that is going to bite DeSantis on the ass. It's still illegal activity."
] |
>
Nothing like setting law like a dictator and having your slaves make it legal. I'm literally ashamed that America still allows Florida to be a state. Really y'all should discard us faster than a lit piece of dynamite......
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.",
">\n\n\nmaking it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.\n\nSeems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023.",
">\n\nTexas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims\nGo right ahead. The rightwing talking heads will turn on DeSantis, because his stunts helps immigrants remain in the US. \nFlorida can change their law, but that's not the law that is going to bite DeSantis on the ass. It's still illegal activity.",
">\n\nFlorida Constitution Article I, Section 10, states that “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.” So how is this legal as this is literally the definition of ex post facto?\nThe again, the MAGA idiots just enjoy using the foundational documents as jizz tickets so this is par for the course."
] |
>
This is a preview of what a DeSantis presidency with republican house/senate would look like, and it's terrifying.
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.",
">\n\n\nmaking it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.\n\nSeems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023.",
">\n\nTexas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims\nGo right ahead. The rightwing talking heads will turn on DeSantis, because his stunts helps immigrants remain in the US. \nFlorida can change their law, but that's not the law that is going to bite DeSantis on the ass. It's still illegal activity.",
">\n\nFlorida Constitution Article I, Section 10, states that “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.” So how is this legal as this is literally the definition of ex post facto?\nThe again, the MAGA idiots just enjoy using the foundational documents as jizz tickets so this is par for the course.",
">\n\nNothing like setting law like a dictator and having your slaves make it legal. I'm literally ashamed that America still allows Florida to be a state. Really y'all should discard us faster than a lit piece of dynamite......"
] |
>
|
[
"Republicans in the state legislature are passing all kinds of stuff for laws that DeSantis violated. \"Oh, this group he created isn't legally allowed to bring charges against people?\" He's a new bill saying they can!\", \"Oh, DeSantis broke the law using funds to fly migrants from another state to ANOTHER state just for a political stunt? Oops here's a bill saying he can!\"\n\"Oh, DeSantis needs authority to carry out his vendetta against Mickey Mouse? Oh here's a bill for that!\"",
">\n\nYou are correct",
">\n\nAnd it’s retroactive. Trump would have loved that remedy",
">\n\nHow are retroactive laws legal? If a politician violates a law, they shouldn't be able to pass a new law that says their past activity was actually legal. I thought all laws need to be effective when they are passed. (Or at some time in the future.)\nOf course, what are you going to do? Sue DeSantis in the state courts in front of the judges that DeSantis appointed? They'll likely say that the governor can do anything he wants. Unless a Democrat somehow is elected, of course. Then, governor is a position with very limited power.",
">\n\nSee, this is why I'm worried about DeSantis. He's spent months pulling stunts that have no basis in law to rile the MAGA base up with culture war bullshit... And now he's going back and making it real and legal after the fact. He's figured out that when you can write the laws, nothing is illegal. \nNow picture him as president. He's way more dangerous because he'll be just as evil, but actually have the ability to form thoughts and make plans.",
">\n\nAs a Floridian who has watched DeSantis's career evolve, in some ways I think you give him too much credit. He is not smart enough to make plans, just smart enough to spout off what he knows people want to hear. I don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do. What is scary about him is that he has gotten bolder and more willing to just spew whatever his base, party, or financial backers want him to. A Desantis presidency would be like an even crazier Andrew Jackson/Donald Trump hybrid in all of the worst ways.",
">\n\n\nI don't think he even realizes what he does or doesn't have the power to do\n\nYou're mistaking him for someone who has any respect or regard for his legal boundaries. As long as no one holds him accountable and/or supports what he does no matter what, DeSantis has the power to do whatever he wants. He knows this, and so do his supporters.",
">\n\nGov DeSantis is coming to grab your migrants...\n \n\nThe special session will also take up an immigration bill that would create the Unauthorized Alien Transport Program, making it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one. A law approved last year said the migrants had to be in Florida.\nDeSantis was criticized for using state tax dollars to fly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were having their asylum requests processed by the federal government from Texas to Massachusetts, with only a brief layover in Florida.",
">\n\n\nmaking it legal for DeSantis to fly migrants from any state to another one.\n\nSeems like the other states should need to agree to something like this but hey I'm just an ordinary person in the US in 2023.",
">\n\nTexas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims\nGo right ahead. The rightwing talking heads will turn on DeSantis, because his stunts helps immigrants remain in the US. \nFlorida can change their law, but that's not the law that is going to bite DeSantis on the ass. It's still illegal activity.",
">\n\nFlorida Constitution Article I, Section 10, states that “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.” So how is this legal as this is literally the definition of ex post facto?\nThe again, the MAGA idiots just enjoy using the foundational documents as jizz tickets so this is par for the course.",
">\n\nNothing like setting law like a dictator and having your slaves make it legal. I'm literally ashamed that America still allows Florida to be a state. Really y'all should discard us faster than a lit piece of dynamite......",
">\n\nThis is a preview of what a DeSantis presidency with republican house/senate would look like, and it's terrifying."
] |
I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly.
As example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.
So while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.
|
[] |
>
I don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer."
] |
>
They definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory.
Ukraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood.
The only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently."
] |
>
Thanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits."
] |
>
The problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?"
] |
>
When they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately."
] |
>
The whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive"
] |
>
To me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s"
] |
>
I'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod."
] |
>
Rumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs"
] |
>
So where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians."
] |
>
My guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?"
] |
>
Deeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson"
] |
>
I don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.
Sensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use."
] |
>
Member during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?
Yeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border."
] |
>
The article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit."
] |
>
Two things can be true at the same time
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference."
] |
>
I think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.
Go watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. "It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet" .. "Bahkmut is falling" and such.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time"
] |
>
Bakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.
It's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.
Unlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.
Overall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.
Also as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such."
] |
>
I hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static."
] |
>
I think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west."
] |
>
Tanks ?
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid."
] |
>
There's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?"
] |
>
I'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too."
] |
>
This guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died."
] |
>
thank you for your service.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else."
] |
>
The minister has been fired.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.",
">\n\nthank you for your service."
] |
>
The fighting against Japan got tough in 1945 in the Philippines (Manila was Stalingrad level bad).
It doesn’t mean that they were winning.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.",
">\n\nthank you for your service.",
">\n\nThe minister has been fired."
] |
>
Another good example would be Germany in World War I; its second largest offensive on the Western Front happened in 1918, and the Entente still hadn't reached Germany when the armistice was signed (though the German army was beaten this still led to the "stab in the back" myth).
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.",
">\n\nthank you for your service.",
">\n\nThe minister has been fired.",
">\n\nThe fighting against Japan got tough in 1945 in the Philippines (Manila was Stalingrad level bad).\nIt doesn’t mean that they were winning."
] |
>
Good point and a better example than mine.
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.",
">\n\nthank you for your service.",
">\n\nThe minister has been fired.",
">\n\nThe fighting against Japan got tough in 1945 in the Philippines (Manila was Stalingrad level bad).\nIt doesn’t mean that they were winning.",
">\n\nAnother good example would be Germany in World War I; its second largest offensive on the Western Front happened in 1918, and the Entente still hadn't reached Germany when the armistice was signed (though the German army was beaten this still led to the \"stab in the back\" myth)."
] |
>
|
[
"I think it's important that we don't commit the same folly that the Russians did when they invaded, forcing the facts to fit their narrative and refusing to believe their opponents could learn and change accordingly. \nAs example, the Russians managed to retreat from Kherson across a major river quietly and competently. They still have a pro core of troops, plenty of equipment, and lots and lots of artillery.\nSo while sending 100 western tanks and 50 Bradleys is great and all, Ukraine is a big place and those numbers need to go up by a LOT. The US has 2,000 Bradleys sitting in deep reserve just waiting to be decommissioned, I'd like to see us donate 500-1000 of them. THAT would be a game changer.",
">\n\nI don’t think the Ukrainians would mind let alone be threathened by Russians retreating too swiftly and efficiently.",
">\n\nThey definitely would be. This is actually the biggest problem for Ukraine since the war started. Russia has shown the ability to absorb lots of losses and keep fighting. Add in that Russia has nukes making their troops and equipment nigh invulnerable on Russian territory. \nUkraine has already beaten Russia, but they'll have to do it again with this new offensive. And who knows how many times after that? And each time at the cost of blood. \nThe only reason Ukraine hasn't given up already is that if they lose they face genocide. They are in dire straits.",
">\n\nThanks but I fail to see how retreating is the problem, because isn’t that how the war will ultimately end?",
">\n\nThe problem is not retreating, it's retreating competently. It wasn't a total debacle. This means they are still very much capable of being organised, and if they can retreat swiftly, then they can probably do the same in offensive too. Would it be efficient? Not necessarily. Would it be deadly? Absolutely. And Ukraine cannot afford to lose as many people as Russia can, unfortunately.",
">\n\nWhen they get those M1 Bradley fighting vehicle's, it's going to be a game changer, watching the videos on those bad asses it's pretty impressive",
">\n\nThe whole NATO package of strykers, Bradley’s, CV-90s and Marders is really what will change the game. They are getting more strykers than Bradley’s",
">\n\nTo me the M1 Bradley and it's 2 tow missiles system it is going to absolutely annihilate what is left of Russian armor. The fact that they can roll up into a spot and launch those bad boys after 3 miles give or take it's going to be a bad day for somebod.",
">\n\nI'm not here to say the M1 is bad, but Russian armor also uses ATGMs too, and it fucks Bradleys just as hard as the other way around. Don't get me wrong they are great vehicles, but ATGMs are still lethal to many tanks, much less IFVs",
">\n\nRumors that Reznikov is stepping down as the defense minister and will be taking the role of justice minister. The current head of intelligence will be taking over as minister of defense. I hope this doesn't impact the chain of command and Ukraine's ability to push back the Russians.",
">\n\nSo where is this offensive headed, surely they are not considering attacking Kyiv again, not after how it went last time?",
">\n\nMy guess a concerted effort in the east, battle of the bulge style, since Russia previously lessened it's (for now) objectives to the 4 eastern/southern regions. Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson",
">\n\nDeeply motivated defenders against poorly trained invaders. I'm sure the Ukrainians will put all given equipment to good use.",
">\n\nI don’t think you can be too prepared for situations like this, so I hope countries are sending what they can as soon as they can.\nSensor fuzed weapons and other cluster munitions seem well suited to blunt an offensive along the northern border.",
">\n\nMember during Iraqi freedom when they had to tell the news to chill tf out with shit they're saying bc literally ANYONE with internet could see it?\nYeah, let's try that again. Maybe save the surprise for idk...when they show up so they don't coordinate a whole other level of shit.",
">\n\nThe article is quoting the Ukrainian Minister of Defence. If they were concerned about Russians having this information they wouldn’t be holding a press conference.",
">\n\nTwo things can be true at the same time",
">\n\nI think he was being sarcastic and making fun of the Russian shills that have been flooding the internet.\nGo watch any Bradley / Abrams / Leopard video on YouTube and you'll see it quite clearly. \"It's a great tank but no match for the mighty Kornet\" .. \"Bahkmut is falling\" and such.",
">\n\nBakhmut may very well fall. It's ugly over there.\nIt's annoying seeing people acting like cheerleaders here like it's an easy fight. If it was an easy fight then Ukraine would be pushing Russia back. They are not. They are slowly ceding ground in that area while taking heavy losses.\nUnlike most people on reddit I am seeing footage from both sides and there are a lot of Ukrainians being killed each day, even if Russian losses are higher.\nOverall pretty immature way to view the war on both sides.\nAlso as pointed out elsewhere, obviously it can be going poorly in one part of the front and better in another -- in fact that is exactly how it always works as the pressure is not even/static.",
">\n\nI hope they sorted the corruption part prior to the next stage of defense. Otherwise I fear sabotages will f them up before they even get the necessery aid from the west.",
">\n\nI think the corruption may have been slowing down western military aid.",
">\n\nTanks ?",
">\n\nThere's no offensive coming. Ukraine is trying to get Russia to do something stupid and overconfident. They'll fall for it, too.",
">\n\nI'm confident they can. I remember checking the news obsessively when that huge line of tanks was headed to Kiev, but they managed. I'm sure they can handle this. Still, it would be much better if they didn't have to. Too many people have died.",
">\n\nThis guy is paid to make these comments. Everything he ever writes is either about Ukraine losing or random comments in other subs for karma farming. Go be Purim’s cockholster somewhere else.",
">\n\nthank you for your service.",
">\n\nThe minister has been fired.",
">\n\nThe fighting against Japan got tough in 1945 in the Philippines (Manila was Stalingrad level bad).\nIt doesn’t mean that they were winning.",
">\n\nAnother good example would be Germany in World War I; its second largest offensive on the Western Front happened in 1918, and the Entente still hadn't reached Germany when the armistice was signed (though the German army was beaten this still led to the \"stab in the back\" myth).",
">\n\nGood point and a better example than mine."
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.
|
[] |
>
Probably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
>
It's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging."
] |
>
The M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots."
] |
>
You're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement."
] |
>
The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.
The reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms."
] |
>
Pretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth."
] |
>
Or root beer.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream"
] |
>
Yeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer."
] |
>
Well root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well."
] |
>
Huh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla."
] |
>
Coke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂
I ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better."
] |
>
I’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day."
] |
>
You’re welcome 😭
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it."
] |
>
Lol I’ll get over it.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭"
] |
>
Entierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it."
] |
>
Basically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.",
">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm"
] |
>
Whoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.",
">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm",
">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing."
] |
>
I sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.
But yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a "meal" is so weird.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.",
">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm",
">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.",
">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise"
] |
>
I used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.",
">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm",
">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.",
">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise",
">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird."
] |
>
Don't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.",
">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.",
">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.",
">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.",
">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.",
">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream",
">\n\nOr root beer.",
">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.",
">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.",
">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.",
">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.",
">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.",
">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭",
">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.",
">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm",
">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.",
">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise",
">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.",
">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning."
] |
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