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> Gives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference." ]
> Shouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water" ]
> Stopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?" ]
> Orange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange. I know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago. Like celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y" ]
> no because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry." ]
> Anyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast" ]
> Yes	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?" ]
> orange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes" ]
> Doesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen" ]
> Yup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. However, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom" ]
> Orange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo." ]
> EVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. This is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it" ]
> That’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared." ]
> After brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…" ]
> That is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice" ]
> I’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink." ]
> Clearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast. I agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes." ]
> I thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross." ]
> Our whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?" ]
> Bro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste (Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising" ]
> What's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast? I was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)" ]
> Well theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all." ]
> The SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree! Or at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up." ]
> Its weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways." ]
> Side note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste" ]
> That's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of "oh, right" at best.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had" ]
> Back in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best." ]
> I just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)" ]
> The problem is drinking orange juice after you brush your teeth. Normally you'd eat your breakfast before and so this wouldn't be an issue.	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)", ">\n\nI just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste." ]
> There’s a simple solution to this. Don’t brush your teeth or make orange toothpaste	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)", ">\n\nI just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste.", ">\n\nThe problem is drinking orange juice after you brush your teeth. Normally you'd eat your breakfast before and so this wouldn't be an issue." ]
> are there people who brush their teeth before eating breakfast? what's the point then?	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)", ">\n\nI just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste.", ">\n\nThe problem is drinking orange juice after you brush your teeth. Normally you'd eat your breakfast before and so this wouldn't be an issue.", ">\n\nThere’s a simple solution to this. Don’t brush your teeth or make orange toothpaste" ]
> Orange juice and mint taste good together (like a cousin of the mojito and the screwdriver). It's the chemical aftertaste of toothpaste that makes orange juice taste bad, not the two flavors inherently. Source: my second favorite cocktail is a mix of grenadine, oj, and creme de menthe	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)", ">\n\nI just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste.", ">\n\nThe problem is drinking orange juice after you brush your teeth. Normally you'd eat your breakfast before and so this wouldn't be an issue.", ">\n\nThere’s a simple solution to this. Don’t brush your teeth or make orange toothpaste", ">\n\nare there people who brush their teeth before eating breakfast? what's the point then?" ]
>	[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nProbably many of our traditions are actually successful marketing in the 40s-60s. You know, the traditions that make boomers gasp that we're now challenging.", ">\n\nIt's bizarre the capitalist marketing gimmicks that the Right seems to hold sacred and loses their absolute minds when they change. Like the M&Ms mascots.", ">\n\nThe M&M thing has nothing to do with the actual food though. That was all a fuzz just because the green M&M now uses shoes instead of heels, not because M&Ms had a replacement.", ">\n\nYou're missing the latest M&M debacle where Tucker Carlson has a shitfit because there's a new Purple M&M lady who actually has a personality and isn't sexualized. The dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.", ">\n\n\nThe dude has a...weird relationship with M&Ms.\n\nThe reality of the situation is that even on slow news days the perpetual outrage machine still needs to be fed. He has 5 hours a week to fill so they just make up shit to be upset about. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't give a shit about any of it. He just enjoys being famous and increasing his wealth.", ">\n\nPretty much everything is incompatible with toothpaste, except maybe leg of lamb or mint chocolate chip ice cream", ">\n\nOr root beer.", ">\n\nYeah — even though it absolutely annihilates everything you were trying to do with the toothpaste — Coke, Pepsi, root beer, just sugary soda in general works pretty well.", ">\n\nWell root beer is also made with sassafras or wintergreen which gives it a mint flavor. Most root beers are a mix of mint and aged vanilla.", ">\n\nHuh…I was not aware of that. I guess that would set it apart from the other sodas I mentioned. I just remember my sister used to have to have a coke after she brushed her teeth bc she absolutely abhorred the taste of toothpaste (idk how — we were a Crest family, so maybe that had something to do w it?). But yeah, root beer would likely go better.", ">\n\nCoke makes sense, too. But the reason most people who hate root beer hate it is because it tastes like mint. I did an experiment with my students one day. I gave them a mint life saver (one in the green bag, NOT blue) and then had them drink a mint and they couldn’t untaste it 😂😂😂\nI ruined root beer for a lot of teens that day.", ">\n\nI’m pretty sure you just ruined it for me. I never ever drank root beer & thought, “mmmm, minty!” However, now that you mention it, there is a STRONG sensory-recall correlation (just coined that scientific phrase)between root beer & wintergreen life savers now that I think of it.", ">\n\nYou’re welcome 😭", ">\n\nLol I’ll get over it.", ">\n\nEntierly marketing. Some marketing campaigns are so successful they become culture and part of norm", ">\n\nBasically every aspect of the American breakfast is inorganically cultivated by marketing.", ">\n\nWhoever convinced the US (world?) that PopTarts and donuts are breakfast deserves a raise", ">\n\nI sorta get that, because you have a coffee or tea to wake up, and a pastry is good with coffee and tea.\nBut yeah, waking up and eating dessert for a \"meal\" is so weird.", ">\n\nI used to work the morning shift at different convenient stores. So many dudes live off of coffee/energy drink and Hostess snacks every morning. Wild how they have the energy to do some labor job the rest of the morning.", ">\n\nDon't get me wrong, carbs are delicious, but booting up on nothing but bread and sugar makes me miserable.", ">\n\nPfsh, what are you talking about? I rinse with orange juice after brushing!", ">\n\nTruly, you live life on the edge.", ">\n\nBold of you to assume that most people brush their teeth in the morning", ">\n\nBut this also assumes that wash their teeth before breakfast. Wouldn't it be better to do so afterwards?", ">\n\nNo, I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food 🤢", ">\n\nI don't want my minty breath to ruin my morning food either. \nGuess we'll have to agree to disagree.", ">\n\nYeah, you do your thing, I do my thing. We're not forcing each other to adopt the same habits. Besides, I'm able to do this because I usually don't eat breakfast (I just drink water and coffee), and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up.", ">\n\nDrinking coffee after brushing your teeth is like un-brushing your teeth.", ">\n\nI don't care", ">\n\nFair", ">\n\nMight be just where you live. I didn’t even know people drink orange juice on the regular. We have full oranges 🍊 and it’s mostly for desert.", ">\n\nIn America, yes. This is exactly why I was surprised about this when I visted America. Americans thought it was strange I had it with dinner.\nBesides the taste, brushing teeth within 30 mins of some acidic drink is really bad for teeth AFAIK.", ">\n\nBrushing after drinking it for sure. I can't say for the reverse", ">\n\nWho eats breakfast after brushing their teeth?", ">\n\nThere's pros and cons to both brushing before and after eating. If you brush before eating, then you remove the plaque before it gets fed with sugars and food that makes it produce acidic waste. There's going to be a decent amount of plaque on your teeth in the morning since it's been growing all night. \nBrushing after eating does of course have the pro of removing food stuck in your teeth. But you could always use a toothpick.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just candy with better marketing. \nThey take all the best parts of the fruit out and concentrate the bad parts until it is basically just flavored sugar water then try to convince you that drinking it is good for you because it has vitamin c. \nSo does the whole fruit and the fruit has fiber that ameliorates the sugar uptake and keeps you full. Have some strawberries with your orange as well, those have more vitamin C per ounce than oranges.", ">\n\nBut I mean, you’re assuming processed ones right? If you get naturally squeezed OJ, it isn’t liquid candy. It’s fruit in Liquid form.", ">\n\nSure, but all the nutrients is in the fibre of the physical fruit. The juice is mostly sugar.", ">\n\nI press my own oranges that I grow. It has a lot of pulp. I don’t think it’s basically sugar water. Am I wrong?", ">\n\nPulp does have a small bit of fibre but you're still missing out on most of the important fibre in the fruit.\nJust the juice is Bailey just pure sugar.", ">\n\nTell me you're using voice to text without telling me you're using voice to text.", ">\n\nI'm not using voice to text. I'm just typing on a phone keyboard with autocorrect", ">\n\nI still don’t know why people brush their teeth before breakfast instead of after", ">\n\nI know, all it does is eat at your teeth and pump you full of too much sugar. \nJust eat the fruit or have it in smoothie form so you get the actual health benefits from the meat, rind, and pulp of very needed fruit. I LOVE fruit juice, but 9/10 it's as good as an uncarbonated soda in terms of \"health benefits\" :/", ">\n\nFYI \nIt's the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in toothpaste that makes it foam up that reacts with things like OJ. \nSensodyne doesn't use SLS so no bad reactions!", ">\n\nYup, I can eat / drink near anything right after Sensodyne. Plus less canker sores now!", ">\n\nYeah that chemical is terrible! Love sensodyne!", ">\n\nOnly if you brush before breakfast, and if you're at home, why are you doing that?", ">\n\nI never understood that at all. Anytime i hear people say to brush before eating i tell them \"you're defeating the purpose of brushing, and ruining your first meal.\"\nBrush after you eat. Let the fluoride do its job instead of rubbing it off with food.... And then ruining your breath a 2nd time.", ">\n\nThe purpose of brushing in the morning is not to clean off your breakfast, it’s to clean off the damage that has happened while you’re sleeping. In fact, you need to wait for half hour or so after eating to brush without causing damage.", ">\n\nMy dentist says that's bullshit. \nBrushing after breakfast is meant to remove food material from the gums and prevent food from causing bacteria buildup.\nYour mouth is perfectly capable of keeping itself clean overnight without external help unless you have some form of disease otherwise.\nThe half hour after breakfast is to prevent the softened enamel from being brushed off due to sugary foods. A quick rinse and spit can help alleviate this problem so long as you remove as much sugar as possible from your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's because you're means to brush your teeth after breakfast, not before.", ">\n\nWhy are you eating breakfast AFTER you’ve brushed your teeth?", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.", ">\n\nyour breathe is so bad that you can taste it?", ">\n\nWhat came first into our morning routine? Orange juice or toothpase? \nmaybe toothpaste was in the wrong all alone, I stan for orange juice", ">\n\nNo it was definitely toothpaste. Orange juice was pushed on American society by the sugar industry.", ">\n\nSo you're telling me my life was a lie", ">\n\nYes. Orange juice is just sugar water. Sure, if you just squeeze actual oranges and drink that (with the pulp!) then it's not bad. But orange juice from a carton at the supermarket, you might as well just crack open a can of Coke for breakfast.", ">\n\nThere is a reason for this! Before WW1, the most common beverage to have with breakfast was actually beer. During the war, companies tried to make a powdered beer to put in with rations but it never worked properly. They ended up trying different fruit based drinks instead and the most successful one was orange flavored. So when the soldiers came back, they continued drinking orange juice with breakfast instead of beer and thus was born the trope. The second piece is fresh citrus was expensive unless you lived in an area that grew it so it was a status symbol that you were wealthy enough to have fresh fruit juice with your breakfast.", ">\n\nThat’s why I switched to Diet Coke. Nothing blocks the delicious taste of metal and cancer.", ">\n\nAre people brushing their teeth before breakfast? I always wait until after eating because it's waaaaay better for your teeth", ">\n\nBecause I don't want my morning breath mixing with the flavor of my food.\nAnd no, the answer is not actually clear whether it's better to do it before or after.", ">\n\nBut your ok with a minty breakfast experience? \nHow bad is your morning breath that it pollutes the taste of your food that bad? \nCould be improper digestion or even constipation resulting in halitosis?\nNot being rude mate, just curious.", ">\n\nOk to be serious, it's a mental thing. In reality, I probably don't notice. But I mind, I feel nasty if I don't brush my teeth right after waking up. How do I deal with the minty taste? Well to me, the minty taste is not as bad as having morning breath, so it's kind of a \"lesser of two evils\" thing. I also don't mind the taste really, because it doesn't bother. Third, I usually don't eat breakfast, and if I do, it happens hours after I wake up, and the toothpaste taste only lingers for a few minutes at most. Fourth, I drink a ton of water for \"breakfast\" to rehydrate from the night before, so the toothpaste taste gets washed away regardless.", ">\n\nShit mate take a breath, I'm kinda tired just reading your points. In all seriousness you do you bud. Was just engaging and innocently wondering. \nHave a class night.", ">\n\nWell, you asked. I just wanted to give you the best answer I could. Cheers.", ">\n\nOrange Juice? You mean the mixer? People drink that straight?", ">\n\nI like the cut of your jib", ">\n\nFor those that love toothpaste and orange juice and want a lovely cocktail next time round, pair your orange juice with absinth.", ">\n\nMy tradition with oj is with alcohol or about 4 hours after the mushrooms.", ">\n\nApple Juice is really the star of morning drinks imo. Orange Juice is great for an afternoon snack.", ">\n\nMaybe because you're meant to brush your teeth after you've had breakfast, not before?", ">\n\nIt's incompatible because you weirdos brush your teeth before eating", ">\n\nYou’re supposed to brush your teeth after, not before eating/drinking.", ">\n\nA lot of “traditions” in America are probably based off bad info", ">\n\nWhat's compatible with toothpaste besides a tooth brush homie", ">\n\nThe reason it makes OJ taste bad is that the foaming agent in toothpaste, SLS, damages your taste buds. It has nothing to do with the mint flavor. So all you have to do is get an SLS-free toothpaste and you can drink OJ right after brushing, no problem.", ">\n\nthats because yall dumbass are using bottom tier mint flavor toothpaste, cinnamon tothpaste is superior in everyway", ">\n\nGood point. I don't usually do either in the mornings, but maybe someone who does could have breakfast then brush their teeth. When I brush after a meal, I feel significantly less food and snacking cravings.", ">\n\nNo juice is good for breakfast... That'll make you hyperglycemic in a second. \nI never associated juice and breakfast... Only corporations suggest that garbage.", ">\n\nFunny story. For the first 25 years of my life I thought I hated orange marmalade.\nUntil someone pointed out the only times I'd actually tried it were right after brushing my teeth in the morning. It kind of blew my mind that marmalade in fact doesn't taste like crap.", ">\n\nPro tip: DO NOT eat or drink right after brushing your teeth. It actually destroys a protective layer around the teeth. Instead, use a copper tongue scrubber and rinse your mouth with water.", ">\n\nWho's having their breakfast AFTER brushing their teeth? Seems a little self-defeating.\nI brush my teeth before bed, and again after the first thing I eat the next day. I thought that was normal.", ">\n\nBecause it doesn't make sense to brush your teeth before you eat", ">\n\nYou should brush your teeth after eating breakfast anyway. If you eat breakfast away from home, the minty taste has already gone away by then.", ">\n\nMy dad always used to brush his teeth first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast.\nThat man baffled me sometimes.", ">\n\nThat's what dentists have recommended for years.", ">\n\nYou brush your teeth AFTER breakfast, otherwise it doesn't make any sense", ">\n\nJust a quick search in google indicates that for various reasons (which are mentioned in this thread already) its more beneificial to brush before eating. And if you still insist on brushing afterwards, you should wait 30-60 minutes depending on your breakfast to not harm your teeth.", ">\n\nThat's why I chew gum after breakfast instead of brushing...", ">\n\nWhat type of gum do you recommend?", ">\n\nAnything sugar free, I prefer peppermint+whitening", ">\n\nwell, I know of one dentist who would disagree.", ">\n\nIt's always one out of 10 dentists, innit?", ">\n\nStatistically, 1 out of 5. 4 out of 5 would recommend sugar-free gum for their patients who chew gum.", ">\n\nHave beer I’ve always noticed beer tastes good after brushing my teeth", ">\n\nProbably because people were drinking it for breakfast before toothpaste was invented. Also your should brush your teeth after breakfast not before", ">\n\nThe same goes for coffee.\nReally, any acidic drink in the morning is counterproductive when factoring in tooth brushing", ">\n\nPeople were probably drinking orange juice in the morning before toothpaste had that foaming agent in it that messes up your taste buds. The tradition just stuck regardless. I've heard you can damage your teeth when you brush right after an acidic drink as the enamel is softened a little.", ">\n\nIf your toothpaste doesn’t past the orange juice test then you should swap toothpastes.", ">\n\nEspecially since it's acidic and it's generally a bad idea to put acid first thing in your stomach in the morning", ">\n\nI mean, so is coffee. I just brushed my teeth so they are nicr and white, lemme douse them with one of the most teethstaining drinks ever.", ">\n\nBrush first, then drink OJ and you find it is surprisingly sweet.", ">\n\nAre you telling me orange juice after toothpaste is not delicious? Am I the only one who unironically enjoys this taste?", ">\n\nI recently heard that Simply Orange is in some hot water over chemicals in their orange juice. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!", ">\n\nMint flavored toothpaste was created fairy recently, people have been drinking the juice from oranges for..I don’t know when oranges were first around.", ">\n\nThat is one bad flavor that was also a guilty pleasure as a kid", ">\n\nNo it isn't. Where I am from most of us we drink sauerkraut juice, especially after drinking the day before.", ">\n\nI’m surprised that “Big Orange” hasn’t had this removed! Be careful", ">\n\nOrange juice breakfast is not a thing in Asia. I guess they never bothered to market it here.\nIt's weird. Why would you drink something that acidic and cold in the morning? Drink something warm like coffee or tea.", ">\n\n\nsomething that acidic and cold in the morning \n\nReminds me of my ex wife.", ">\n\nIn the last 20 years, OJ consumption has dropped by more than half.", ">\n\nI had a friend in HS and every morning his grandma gave him orange juice and Oreos. What a horrible combination", ">\n\nSo, I am allergic to a chemical in most toothpaste called \"sodium lauryl sulphate\"; which, it turns out, is the chemical that messes with your taste buds and makes orange juice awful. So with the stuff I use now it is just a bad combination of flavours for a couple of sips, rather than the usual jaw-clenching vileness. \nSo if this happens to you often, look for toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulphate in it :)", ">\n\nOrange juice is traditional in US and popular american movies", ">\n\nI learned this year that there are people who LOVE the OJ/toothpaste thing that happens, and will do it intentionally! \nThis does not negate your point, but damn, there is something for everyone out there", ">\n\nGet SLS-free toothpaste. That ingredient is what causes the bad aftertaste.", ">\n\nBrush your teeth after breakfast? and i like apple juice more", ">\n\nYSK that some medication can be essentially neutralized by Citric Acid. I learned this recently about my depression medication recently. I cut out citric acid in the morning and noticed a major difference.", ">\n\nGives me heartburn, especially in the morning lol. I'll take water", ">\n\nShouldn't brushing teeth after eating and drinking (except water) be better than doing vice versa?", ">\n\nStopped drinking it for this reason. Also, it makes me phlegm-y", ">\n\nOrange Juice was meme'd into becoming a morning drink by a PR firm hired by big orange.\nI know this sounds like a conspiracy but you'll find that more often than not our traditions and customs are just someone's get rich scheme from 100 years ago.\nLike celebrated American folk legend Paul Bunyan. We wouldn't know anything about him but he's the perfect mascot for the logging industry.", ">\n\nno because you're supposed to brush your teeth AFTER you eat breakfast", ">\n\nAnyone else think Sprite tastes weird after eating French fries?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\norange juice always makes me feel better. if i have a minor headache from getting up orange juice alleviate it idk it's weird but it does happen", ">\n\nDoesn’t mix well with coffee or my butthole either. Bacon is fine. Eggs are fine. Bacon and eggs are fine. But if I eat bacon and eggs and wash it down with acidic orange juice my ass about to go boom boom", ">\n\nYup. Colgate toothpaste makes OJ taste just horrible. Can't brush my teeth in the morning until I've had the OJ. \nHowever, OJ and chocolate chip cookies is a great combo.", ">\n\nOrange juice is just gross to me. It’s like I can feel my tooth enamel eroding as I drink it", ">\n\nEVERYONE LISTEN - YELLOW GATORADE TASTES GOOD AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH. \nThis is not a prank it’s knowledge that deserves to be shared.", ">\n\nThat’s why you drink it before you brush your teeth. Like with your breakfast…", ">\n\nAfter brushing my teeth I use to eat my eggs or other savory food before drinking orange juice", ">\n\nThat is why I don't mix toothpaste and orange juice. A disgusting drink.", ">\n\nI’ve also never understood how people have it alongside coffee. While both acidic, they’re clashing tastes.", ">\n\nClearly you brush your teeth before breakfast. I only rarely have freshly squeezed oj on some weekends, and at the beginning of breakfast. I have my shower and brush my teeth after breakfast.\nI agree that having OJ right after brushing your teeth is kinds gross.", ">\n\nI thought about this today. Why is it a morning drink exclusively?", ">\n\nOur whole concept of American breakfast is just profit driven advertising", ">\n\nBro even water isn’t compatible with toothpaste \n(Although the effects aren’t as bad if it’s warm water)", ">\n\nWhat's with all these people who brush their teeth before/after breakfast?\nI was raised to brush my teeth before I go to bed. Then, I just don't eat breakfast at all.", ">\n\nWell theirs nothing the same as drinking orange juice and then remembering you just brushed your teeth. Then you feel the pain following. But on the bright side it wakes you up.", ">\n\nThe SLS-free gang would respectfully disagree!\nOr at least I would if I could actually drink OJ anyways.", ">\n\nIts weird but I love orange juice after I brush my teeth with toothpaste", ">\n\nSide note, my sister's bf tried to make some cocoa-mint macerated rhum, but the same incompatibility occurred and it made the vilest most disgusting drink I've ever had", ">\n\nThat's because the toothpaste orange juice interaction is grossly blown out of proportion. It's like a half second of \"oh, right\" at best.", ">\n\nBack in my day our orange juice came in a can. And it came out as a weird clump. And we were damn grateful to have it :)", ">\n\nI just might be the only person in the world that likes this taste.", ">\n\nThe problem is drinking orange juice after you brush your teeth. Normally you'd eat your breakfast before and so this wouldn't be an issue.", ">\n\nThere’s a simple solution to this. Don’t brush your teeth or make orange toothpaste", ">\n\nare there people who brush their teeth before eating breakfast? what's the point then?", ">\n\nOrange juice and mint taste good together (like a cousin of the mojito and the screwdriver). It's the chemical aftertaste of toothpaste that makes orange juice taste bad, not the two flavors inherently.\nSource: my second favorite cocktail is a mix of grenadine, oj, and creme de menthe" ]
Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.	[]
> Indigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility. You cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world. Say Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just "genetics", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people. Its hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not "happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty" instead of being pro-environment. For many people, indigenous communities are still "in the way".	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas." ]
> Could you explain how "non-indigenous" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\"." ]
> I'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that "gender scholars" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous "gender theory" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all." ]
> The ones you call "gender scholars" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word. I mean, there are many articles about this. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that "gender scholars" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. You are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another. You are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture. This is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling "stone age savages" as late as the 1950s. I think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory." ]
> You are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. No... I'm not treating it that way. I used "gender scholars" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion. You are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture. No... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my "modern," western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve." ]
> I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. Gender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have. I have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers. How is my "modern," western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? It is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening. two spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them. This is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you "president of the house" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them. How you miss the mark this bad I will never know.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing." ]
> That's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know." ]
> I literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry. You can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people." ]
> Im from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word." ]
> I'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af." ]
> The old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart." ]
> the blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel." ]
> In Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for "improving the race". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. Addendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the "unsaid part" basically being "mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections." I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing. As I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening." ]
> Worked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain)." ]
> Am sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that." ]
> I was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features." ]
> I’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking" ]
> Well that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all." ]
> No Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil... As for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised." ]
> Argentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world." ]
> The photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals." ]
> Their traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art." ]
> Aren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”" ]
> a very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…" ]
> And a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white" ]
> Do you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️" ]
> “Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” Hmm, tough question.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election." ]
> Well that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question." ]
> Ffs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because "they don't approve what I want" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense." ]
> It’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph." ]
> But it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal." ]
> And that drug isn't called coincidentally "lust for power"?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him." ]
> How can one bypass the login page?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?" ]
> I wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?" ]
> Yes, it's totally ignored. :(	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned)." ]
> It’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(" ]
> I want to talk about Hawaii	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash." ]
> Dole says "No".	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii" ]
> It’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\"." ]
> Which ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color" ]
> Because them not having them means black people were treated better?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?" ]
> Actually, yes.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?" ]
> They weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes." ]
> They weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Because they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America." ]
> They intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population." ]
> because the goverment promoted it Do you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married? Intermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out." ]
> Are you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women" ]
> always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Do you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit." ]
> And on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. Hey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass." ]
> Guinea Pig is eaten in Peru..	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?" ]
> So these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru.." ]
> What's a neglect spill?	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru..", ">\n\nSo these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?" ]
> “Stand up! Defend yourself from their whips! Let them see how many of you there are!” —Peter Brook, “Marat/Sade”	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru..", ">\n\nSo these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?", ">\n\nWhat's a neglect spill?" ]
> The claim that others don't see them or treat them as humans is made too often. It assumes that those others would be unable or unwilling to treat those they see as humans in a cruel or dismissive fashion, but there's no reason to believe that. It is entirely possible, even probable, that they see them as humans and are just not moved by that fact. Their other priorities take precedence.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru..", ">\n\nSo these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?", ">\n\nWhat's a neglect spill?", ">\n\n“Stand up! Defend yourself from their whips! Let them see how many of you there are!”\n—Peter Brook, “Marat/Sade”" ]
> Been to Peru - a lovely multicultural society with its share of bigotry. Sometimes very petty. For example, if you are of Japanese descent it's better to be pure Japanese than mixed with caucasian. I imagine it's difficult for indigenous people. The truly indigenous people in LatAm do not look like American Indians, or like most Latins who are mestizo. They appear to be a much older form of humanity - particularly in remote regions. In Latin America, you CANNOT ARGUE RACIAL INFERIORITY. These indigenous people built the Aztec pyramids, calculated the Mayan calendar, and raised Macchu-Picchu to the skies. Perhaps like the blue people of Kentucky, because they have remained isolated for so long, they interbred. I can of a few reasons why. Perhaps they were in remote areas to begin with and didn't realize the world had changed. Perhaps they specifically avoided civilization because they associated it with disease, exploitation, and slavery. For some reason, they venturing out of Andes and the Amazon and trying to establish relationships.	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru..", ">\n\nSo these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?", ">\n\nWhat's a neglect spill?", ">\n\n“Stand up! Defend yourself from their whips! Let them see how many of you there are!”\n—Peter Brook, “Marat/Sade”", ">\n\nThe claim that others don't see them or treat them as humans is made too often.\nIt assumes that those others would be unable or unwilling to treat those they see as humans in a cruel or dismissive fashion, but there's no reason to believe that.\nIt is entirely possible, even probable, that they see them as humans and are just not moved by that fact. Their other priorities take precedence." ]
>	[ "Sadly this is the situation with many native/indigenous communities across the Americas.", ">\n\nIndigenous communities have been fighting for centuries but still get massive backlash and hostility.\nYou cant even talk about indigenous political stances because decolonization politics attacks the foundations of pretty much the entire political world.\nSay Identity Politics in the Americas has roots in racial essentialism and erases indigenous culture to just \"genetics\", and that gender theory appropriates indigenous concepts like two spirited people without actually understanding the concept and you get in trouble with people who talk over feelings of Indigenous people.\nIts hard to find political support when there is so much institutional hostility and these institutions literally do not think of the world the same way. An interview with an indigenous author had the interviewer ask if she was not \"happy civilization lifted everyone out of poverty\" instead of being pro-environment.\nFor many people, indigenous communities are still \"in the way\".", ">\n\nCould you explain how \"non-indigenous\" gender theory appropriates indigenous gender theory? I've never met a 2S person who thought this way about it at all.", ">\n\nI'm familiar with this history, but I still don't see how it equates to non-indigenous gender theory appropriating indigenous gender theory. That would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with. This isn't the case though, and modern non-indigenous \"gender theory\" is primarily a collection of ideas from trans people about their place in their societies and cultures. Some number of non-indigenous people trying to understand two-spirit identities without the specific cultural background is just not appropriation, and it isn't even part of a wider gender theory.", ">\n\nThe ones you call \"gender scholars\" are cultural anthropologists, and whether you personally agree or not does not change that these same scholars might adopt another word due to all the misinformation and controversy surrounding the word.\nI mean, there are many articles about this.\n\nThat would assume modern gender theory is built on or borrows from a culture (in this case - a wide variety of indigenous cultures) that \"gender scholars\" (which are barely even a thing anyways) have little understanding of or experience with.\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in. Experience in one culture does not always translate to another.\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\nThis is an area of history where the papers published is really low, and some cultures havent had papers written about them in a very long time, sometimes decades. These are cultures historians were calling \"stone age savages\" as late as the 1950s. \nI think you realize the problem this is trying to solve.", ">\n\n\nYou are treating gender as a hard science, which it is not. Gender is a social construct, and relies on the culture it exists in.\n\nNo... I'm not treating it that way. I used \"gender scholars\" in quotes and mentioned that they're barely a thing to illustrate this point in particular. I then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender. I'm confused as to how you came to this conclusion.\n\nYou are also assuming scholarly work is always objective and impartial. If it was, Academia would not push this. It exists because anthropology is flooded with old thinking that effects the ability of anthropologists to study culture.\n\nNo... I'm not assuming that and I never made any kind of claim like that at all. You said that gender theory is appropriative of indigenous culture. I've yet to hear how that's true in any way. How is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture? That's all I'm asking, since you claimed it was. If you mistakenly said that and moreso meant that indigenous history and culture is often painted with an ignorant brush, using frameworks more familiar to those writing that history, then that's totally okay; it's just a totally different thing.", ">\n\n\nI then went on to say that gender theory is moreso a loose connection of ideas that primarily trans people have about gender.\n\nGender Theories are ideas about gender that have been evolving with society, there are many of them and are competing ideas in gender development. They are not ideas only trans people have.\nI have no idea how you think sociology ideas about gender is something only trans people think about. There are archives full of these papers.\n\nHow is my \"modern,\" western understanding of gender appropriative of indigenous culture?\n\nIt is not the understanding or gender theory, it is the use of indigenous words with specific meanings which I showed you is so common it has a wikipedia page. I didn't even need to dig into my written books show its happening.\ntwo spirited is a very specific concept from a very specific range of cultures with a very specific meaning and it has layers beyond just what is obvious to outsiders. It is not just a word, its an expression of a greater world view and spiritual belief. Western thinking does not see people in this way because western religion usually condemns them.\nThis is like an alien coming down to earth, walking up to your door, and calling you \"president of the house\" because the full weight of this specific word is not known to them.\nHow you miss the mark this bad I will never know.", ">\n\nThat's all well and good, and I agree with it. It's still not appropriation, since the definition of 2S isn't contained within western non-indigenous gender theory and since the term is of largely indigenous origins. My 2S friends use it because it's easy to get a broad point across about their identity, mainly to other indigenous and/or queer people.", ">\n\nI literally linked you an article on how the definition and view of the word is being changed by non-natives who do not respect the original definition to push new age beliefs pretending to be indigenous practices. That is why people are angry.\nYou can personally disagree, but this does not change the fact it is a controversial word.", ">\n\nIm from Peru that Country is a shit show, they dont care about people outside Capital of Lima, President Runners only go to these places for votes giving them false hope , it so fucking sad that even people that have money are not able to help them. Arequipa is trying to do their own shit and it kind of works for them. Peru is Corrupted af.", ">\n\nI'm from Bolivia. Much of the same. It pains my heart.", ">\n\nThe old blanco/mestizo/Indio order so prevalent in Latin American countries. So cruel.", ">\n\nthe blanco against mestizo/indio is expected and historical, but the real stupid, illogical and surprising one is mestizo to indio hate, since Mestizos are primarily descendants of the indio. It is sickening.", ">\n\nIn Mexico, mestizos that date/marry/have children with white people are often heralded for \"improving the race\". Being of more indigenous descent than European descent is often viewed as being racially inferior. \nAddendum: Most mestizos actually think of themselves as inferior to white people. It ends up resulting in some inferiority/superiority complex that makes race relations in Mexico really complicated. Mexico's president, AMLO, is really exploiting this at the moment, with the \"unsaid part\" basically being \"mestizos need to do more to keep white people down and keep white people out of the country, because that's the only way mestizos can have their own country, because we don't believe we're able to compete with white people without protections.\" I can understand a lot of this as post-colonial inter-generational trauma, but it's still fucked and doesn't lead to racial healing.\nAs I understand, a lot of this can also be extrapolated to other Latin American countries, which have faced similar patterns of colonization by European powers (mostly Spain).", ">\n\nWorked w/an old filipino man who said once how wonderful it was that the spaniards invaded the Philippines and ‘softened our ugly faces’ with their whiteness. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to even say to that.", ">\n\nAm sorry but am also filipino. I think it’s human nature. What the old filipino man said to you rings true most if not all filipinos. Look at our beauty pageant contestants, they look westernized or mixed. We do love our asian beauty but standing beside mestizos and western beauty, i admit that they look more beautiful than us. Even when i was a kid, i can tell who looks better or not and nobody told me who is suppose to look beautiful or not. Other kids know who looks ugly or not and they and i generally viewed western beauty as superior or more beautiful. Collectively, what i and most filipinos viewed as fairer/beautiful are the ones with long noses, thin lips, small faces, taller in height, fairer or darker features.", ">\n\nI was pretty surprised at the racism towards dark skinned Latin Americans by other Latin Americans. It was surprising but not shocking", ">\n\nI’v worked with guys from all over South and Central America and they all say Argentinians are the worst/most arrogant and racist of them all.", ">\n\nWell that’s were the Nazis and confederates fled to, and the government tried its best to get European migration, so I am not surprised.", ">\n\nNo Confederates fled to Argentina, you're confusing it with Brazil...\nAs for the Nazis, that boiled down to the fact that Argentina already had millions of German descendants which they could blend into, not because Argentina was a pro-Nazi country or something. In fact, Argentina has the biggest Jewish population in the Hispanic world.", ">\n\nArgentina was pretty much pro-nazi, the largest meeting of nazis outside germany happened in 1938 in Argentina to celebrate the Anschluss with 15,000 Argentinian Nazis attending. Peron provided protection to thousands of Nazis and Ustase war criminals.", ">\n\nThe photo of that protestor's uniquely flamboyant, colourful outfit in contrast to the conformist uniforms of the police behind her is pure art.", ">\n\nTheir traditional clothing is art, the contrast I personally wouldn’t call it “art.”", ">\n\nAren’t these guys protesting to reinstate the ex president after he tried to dissolve the Congress, scrap the constitution and take over the courts…", ">\n\na very very corrupt congress* yes. not that black/white", ">\n\nAnd a very corrupt president 🤷🏻‍♂️", ">\n\nDo you think MLK or Malcolm would care if it was a corrupt president that decides to treat them as not being subhuman? It wasn't 30 years ago that hundreds of thousands of indigenous Peruvians were forcibly sterilized by the father of the loser in the last election.", ">\n\n“Would a sane person be concerned about a corrupt president overturning civil rights, the constitution and democracy to become a dictator?” \nHmm, tough question.", ">\n\nWell that is not what happened though. The president wanted to dissolve the congress because the congress was clearly obstructing any work the gov tried to do, and this is actually the constitutional right of the president. The whole political system in Peru is pretty messed up, it doesn’t really make sense.", ">\n\nFfs, no. It's not the right of the president to dissolve Congress whenever he wants because \"they don't approve what I want\" (does requesting the nationalization of gas sounds like it would be approved by a Congress not controlled by leftists?). Go read art. 134 first paragraph.", ">\n\nIt’s not whenever he wants and whether all the conditions where there or not can be argued about, but it’s not like the president did something completely unconstitutional and illegal.", ">\n\nBut it was completely unconstitutional and illegal, he doesn't have to power to dissolve Congress just because he wants to. Castillo himself is not claiming it was legal to do so, his defense is that someone else drugged him.", ">\n\nAnd that drug isn't called coincidentally \"lust for power\"?", ">\n\nHow can one bypass the login page?", ">\n\nI wish there was more attention on West Papua, Indonesia, with the constant genocide of indigenous/natives around the Grasberg Gold Mine (American owned).", ">\n\nYes, it's totally ignored. :(", ">\n\nIt’s sad how common this is in Latin America. The whole world really but I have experience in Latin American racism. So quick to suck off their European heritage while throwing their indigenous heritage in the trash.", ">\n\nI want to talk about Hawaii", ">\n\nDole says \"No\".", ">\n\nIt’s wild how all of the ex Spanish colonies end up being the most racist against anybody of color", ">\n\nWhich ex-Spanish colonies had Jim Crow laws and segregation laws?", ">\n\nBecause them not having them means black people were treated better?", ">\n\nActually, yes.", ">\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left. Slaves in Latin America were treated the same if not worse than in America.", ">\n\n\nThey weren’t, look at Argentina’s black population oh wait you can’t since there’s barley any left.\n\nBecause they intermarried and had kids with the mostly white population, yeah. DNA tests reveal exactly where the black Argentines are, they're in everyone's DNA, but they don't appear in phenotype because they were never a sizable part of the population.", ">\n\nThey intermarried because the goverment promoted it to whiten the races so that black people would slowly go out.", ">\n\n\nbecause the goverment promoted it \n\nDo you think government agents were going around door to door and forcing people to get married?\nIntermarriage with non-whites was normal in Spanish colonial society, Spanish women were rarely brought to the colonies so the men had always intermarried with African or Amerindian women", ">\n\nAre you intentionally obtuse lmao. When did I say they were going door to door?? I said they promoted it. Acting like the intermarriage was always consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women. Also don’t see the need to defend what Argentina did, But this is Reddit.", ">\n\n\nalways consent full on both sides rather than Spanish forcibly marrying or rapeing non white women.\n\nDo you have any evidence for this whatsoever? Yes, it is a fair general assumption that they were consentually marrying. You don't actually intermarry for generations and produce millions of offspring if someone hates you to death and just wants you dead, you know. You're really just pulling this out of your ass.", ">\n\nAnd on top of that apparently Netflix is using their country as a Guinea pig for their password sharing stuff. Folks can’t catch a break. \nHey, don’t Guinea pigs come from Peru?", ">\n\nGuinea Pig is eaten in Peru..", ">\n\nSo these protestors wanted the president to dissolve the senate and the courts and now they are protesting over racism? Wtheck? Do they want a Dictatorship that do not gonna fix Peru's issues at all?", ">\n\nWhat's a neglect spill?", ">\n\n“Stand up! Defend yourself from their whips! Let them see how many of you there are!”\n—Peter Brook, “Marat/Sade”", ">\n\nThe claim that others don't see them or treat them as humans is made too often.\nIt assumes that those others would be unable or unwilling to treat those they see as humans in a cruel or dismissive fashion, but there's no reason to believe that.\nIt is entirely possible, even probable, that they see them as humans and are just not moved by that fact. Their other priorities take precedence.", ">\n\nBeen to Peru - a lovely multicultural society with its share of bigotry. Sometimes very petty. For example, if you are of Japanese descent it's better to be pure Japanese than mixed with caucasian. I imagine it's difficult for indigenous people.\nThe truly indigenous people in LatAm do not look like American Indians, or like most Latins who are mestizo. They appear to be a much older form of humanity - particularly in remote regions. In Latin America, you CANNOT ARGUE RACIAL INFERIORITY. These indigenous people built the Aztec pyramids, calculated the Mayan calendar, and raised Macchu-Picchu to the skies. Perhaps like the blue people of Kentucky, because they have remained isolated for so long, they interbred.\nI can of a few reasons why. Perhaps they were in remote areas to begin with and didn't realize the world had changed. Perhaps they specifically avoided civilization because they associated it with disease, exploitation, and slavery. For some reason, they venturing out of Andes and the Amazon and trying to establish relationships." ]
The key phrase is "in cash." Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.	[]
> It's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing." ]
> I mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of "can't afford it"	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading." ]
> If you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it? If you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"" ]
> If you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it? If you can't pay it off right away, yes. If you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it? Did you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?" ]
> If you can't pay it off right away, yes. Ok, so then anyone who gets a mortgage or a car loan can't afford their house or car, right? Did you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? This is not relevant. "If you sell something you don't want, then you can afford something else, but if you sell something you want, then you can't," isn't logic.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?", ">\n\n\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes. \n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference." ]
> The statement is clear and your view is confused. The suggestions you've offered in refute of the claim are actually backing up the claim itself. put on a credit card This means you can't afford to pay it now, so you're paying it later (30-45 days later, unless you're willing to pay interest - in which case, you still don't have the money to pay it off). sell something of value This means you can't afford to pay it now, as you don't have the $1,000 now. So you need to give up things you already spent $1,000s on to recoup the $1,000 you need. get money from friends/family This means you can't afford to pay it now; so, you're going to get a loan or a gift from someone else that does have $1,000. "50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts" or "50% of Americans would have to pay an unexpected $1,000 expense with their credit card" These phrases mean the same thing. Credit card isn't money, it's a high-interest loan. Basically, it's legal loan-sharking. Using a credit card to get by is a temporary solution to the problem "50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts"	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?", ">\n\n\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes. \n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference.", ">\n\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes.\n\nOk, so then anyone who gets a mortgage or a car loan can't afford their house or car, right?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items?\n\nThis is not relevant. \"If you sell something you don't want, then you can afford something else, but if you sell something you want, then you can't,\" isn't logic." ]
> You could have $10,000 in credit lines. Which means you could spend another $9000 if you really needed to. A line of credit isn't your money, you'd be using someone else's money to cover the expense until you can get the money yourself. Being able to spend money on credit is not the same as having money in a savings account for an emergency. They literally just asked "how would you pay it". You're right, I agree- they worded the question in a way that gave misleading answers so they could write a click-bait headline. If someone asked me to pay a $1000 bill right now, I'd put it on my credit card, even though I have 10k in the bank. So, the "researcher" (if you can even call them that) would have gotten a 'false-positive' on their analysis as they would mistakenly assume that I didn't have an emergency savings. But, I'm just cheap and want the credit card point, so I'll put it on the card and pay it off next month. But, we can't deny that there are many in this "study" that actually are barely making ends meet and live paycheck to paycheck due to the job market, inflation, and overall economic conditions.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?", ">\n\n\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes. \n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference.", ">\n\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes.\n\nOk, so then anyone who gets a mortgage or a car loan can't afford their house or car, right?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items?\n\nThis is not relevant. \"If you sell something you don't want, then you can afford something else, but if you sell something you want, then you can't,\" isn't logic.", ">\n\nThe statement is clear and your view is confused. \nThe suggestions you've offered in refute of the claim are actually backing up the claim itself. \n\nput on a credit card\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, so you're paying it later (30-45 days later, unless you're willing to pay interest - in which case, you still don't have the money to pay it off). \n\nsell something of value\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, as you don't have the $1,000 now. So you need to give up things you already spent $1,000s on to recoup the $1,000 you need.\n\nget money from friends/family\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now; so, you're going to get a loan or a gift from someone else that does have $1,000. \n\n\"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\" or \"50% of Americans would have to pay an unexpected $1,000 expense with their credit card\"\n\nThese phrases mean the same thing. Credit card isn't money, it's a high-interest loan. Basically, it's legal loan-sharking. Using a credit card to get by is a temporary solution to the problem \"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\"" ]
> It's not misleading at all. It says 50% of Americans don't have a cash reserve that could pay for a $1k unexpected expense. No where does it say or imply that the person can't or won't borrow to pay the bill. Credit card debt is incredibly commonplace. This is an issue of reading comprehension, not an issue of a misleading statement.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?", ">\n\n\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes. \n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference.", ">\n\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes.\n\nOk, so then anyone who gets a mortgage or a car loan can't afford their house or car, right?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items?\n\nThis is not relevant. \"If you sell something you don't want, then you can afford something else, but if you sell something you want, then you can't,\" isn't logic.", ">\n\nThe statement is clear and your view is confused. \nThe suggestions you've offered in refute of the claim are actually backing up the claim itself. \n\nput on a credit card\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, so you're paying it later (30-45 days later, unless you're willing to pay interest - in which case, you still don't have the money to pay it off). \n\nsell something of value\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, as you don't have the $1,000 now. So you need to give up things you already spent $1,000s on to recoup the $1,000 you need.\n\nget money from friends/family\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now; so, you're going to get a loan or a gift from someone else that does have $1,000. \n\n\"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\" or \"50% of Americans would have to pay an unexpected $1,000 expense with their credit card\"\n\nThese phrases mean the same thing. Credit card isn't money, it's a high-interest loan. Basically, it's legal loan-sharking. Using a credit card to get by is a temporary solution to the problem \"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\"", ">\n\n\nYou could have $10,000 in credit lines. Which means you could spend another $9000 if you really needed to.\n\nA line of credit isn't your money, you'd be using someone else's money to cover the expense until you can get the money yourself. Being able to spend money on credit is not the same as having money in a savings account for an emergency.\n\nThey literally just asked \"how would you pay it\".\n\nYou're right, I agree- they worded the question in a way that gave misleading answers so they could write a click-bait headline.\nIf someone asked me to pay a $1000 bill right now, I'd put it on my credit card, even though I have 10k in the bank. So, the \"researcher\" (if you can even call them that) would have gotten a 'false-positive' on their analysis as they would mistakenly assume that I didn't have an emergency savings. But, I'm just cheap and want the credit card point, so I'll put it on the card and pay it off next month.\nBut, we can't deny that there are many in this \"study\" that actually are barely making ends meet and live paycheck to paycheck due to the job market, inflation, and overall economic conditions." ]
> Most of the friends and family i have asked about how they interpret that statement, and myself initially, interpreted it to mean that the bill will simply go unpaid. It is only after a discussion and pointing out that is doesn't include credit is the true meaning understood.	[ "The key phrase is \"in cash.\" Putting something on credit or selling something to come up with the cash are the same as not having the immediate cash to pay a $1000 bill. I don't believe it's misleading when they mean the same thing.", ">\n\nIt's misleading because, while technically true, it leads people to believe something that isn't. Saying that people don't have the cash to pay for something leads the reader to believe that those people can't afford it, which isn't true, hence the misleading.", ">\n\nI mean, if you have to sell your stuff or take on debt to pay for something I think that fits the definition of \"can't afford it\"", ">\n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?", ">\n\n\nIf you pay for something with a credit card, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes. \n\nIf you buy something with the money you made from a garage sale, does that mean you couldn't afford it?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items? There's a difference.", ">\n\n\nIf you can't pay it off right away, yes.\n\nOk, so then anyone who gets a mortgage or a car loan can't afford their house or car, right?\n\nDid you have the garage sale because you needed money, or because the garage is too full of junk? Did you sell things you wanted to keep, or just sold unwanted items?\n\nThis is not relevant. \"If you sell something you don't want, then you can afford something else, but if you sell something you want, then you can't,\" isn't logic.", ">\n\nThe statement is clear and your view is confused. \nThe suggestions you've offered in refute of the claim are actually backing up the claim itself. \n\nput on a credit card\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, so you're paying it later (30-45 days later, unless you're willing to pay interest - in which case, you still don't have the money to pay it off). \n\nsell something of value\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now, as you don't have the $1,000 now. So you need to give up things you already spent $1,000s on to recoup the $1,000 you need.\n\nget money from friends/family\n\nThis means you can't afford to pay it now; so, you're going to get a loan or a gift from someone else that does have $1,000. \n\n\"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\" or \"50% of Americans would have to pay an unexpected $1,000 expense with their credit card\"\n\nThese phrases mean the same thing. Credit card isn't money, it's a high-interest loan. Basically, it's legal loan-sharking. Using a credit card to get by is a temporary solution to the problem \"50% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their bank accounts\"", ">\n\n\nYou could have $10,000 in credit lines. Which means you could spend another $9000 if you really needed to.\n\nA line of credit isn't your money, you'd be using someone else's money to cover the expense until you can get the money yourself. Being able to spend money on credit is not the same as having money in a savings account for an emergency.\n\nThey literally just asked \"how would you pay it\".\n\nYou're right, I agree- they worded the question in a way that gave misleading answers so they could write a click-bait headline.\nIf someone asked me to pay a $1000 bill right now, I'd put it on my credit card, even though I have 10k in the bank. So, the \"researcher\" (if you can even call them that) would have gotten a 'false-positive' on their analysis as they would mistakenly assume that I didn't have an emergency savings. But, I'm just cheap and want the credit card point, so I'll put it on the card and pay it off next month.\nBut, we can't deny that there are many in this \"study\" that actually are barely making ends meet and live paycheck to paycheck due to the job market, inflation, and overall economic conditions.", ">\n\nIt's not misleading at all. It says 50% of Americans don't have a cash reserve that could pay for a $1k unexpected expense.\nNo where does it say or imply that the person can't or won't borrow to pay the bill. Credit card debt is incredibly commonplace.\nThis is an issue of reading comprehension, not an issue of a misleading statement." ]

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