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https://youtu.be/tOj3A8NJIO4	/r/videos/comments/qeeo1m/professional_horror_artist_turns_popular_logos/	[ "Neat art. Would've been better without the commentary, imo", "I wonder how long all of the drawings combined took to make.", "That's the most annoying voice over I've ever heard. Had to close the video.", "He's pretty good, but it seriously annoys me that his finishing move for every drawing is to add blood all over. Like... sometimes less is more, dude.", "On the contrary, the commentary made the video for me. S'pose we just share the same sense of humor.." ]	5	videos	Professional horror artist turns popular logos into apocalyptic artwork.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuLaQoQP9oo	/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/imagine_paying_40000_a_semester_for_this/	[ "Also imagine loosing a scholarship because a professor doesn't like you and gives you a bad grade. It shouldn't be like this.", "I think 40,000 dollars to learn basic fucking manners in today's society which seems to be filled with self righteous and angry children who are both ignorant of the world and deeply convinced of their superiority is probably a good value. \n\nBut whatever.", "\"My bad side is bad as my pleasant side is pleasant.\" \n\nAll I can think is \n\n1. false, I can't imagine this guy having a pleasant side, but he seems like a real dick.\n\n2. Ok so obviously this isn't a literature course.", "Fuck that. Someone yawned, big fucking deal. These kids, or their parents are paying top dollar for the education, if they fuck it up and don't pay attention that's on them. Seems like a self righteous person to get so worked up over a fucking yawn. You're a professor at Cornell you're getting paid either way get over your fucking self.", "When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor. -- Paulo Freire", "It's pronounced \"Cor-nell\" it's the highest rank in the Ivy League.\n\nSeriously though this professor is a fucking rube. Get over yourself. You're there to collect a paycheck and provide value for that paycheck. You're not the fucking gatekeeper of whether it's appropriate to be tired.", "280 students are paying top dollar so 1 asshole can interrupt a lecture with his bullshit and you take the side of the 1 asshole. \n\nYou probably like people who talk in movie theaters. They paid their ticket, right?", "He is there to teach. Not preach. Looks as engaging as watching paint dry.", "I know you think that's pithy and deep, but this is hardly fucking oppression. \n\n1 year of Covid mandates is OK.... but being polite so people can learn is oppression? \n\nYou guys are the self righteous and angry kids I was talking about.", "I was talking about you.\n\n\\>You guys are the self righteous and angry\n\nHave you considered what a snowflake you are if you're triggered by yawning? \n\n\nEdit: not to mention your shoehorning in how triggered you are by even weak attempts to manage a pandemic. \"Don't yawn but go ahead and die.\" My, what moral character you were taught in school.", "> \"My bad side is bad as my pleasant side is pleasant.\"\n\nThat's strong \"If you can't take me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best\" vibes right there.\n\nWhenever you hear someone say that: Run!", "I feel like the professor interrupted the lecture more than the yawn did.", "“How could anyone YAWN during one of my lectures?!?!?!\n\nAnyways, back to the kilobyte…”", "The dude yawned. He wasn't making fart noises with his mouth. It's a big difference. Do you get mad when someone sneezes in the theater?", "I've always found people who can gradually talk themselves into angry hysteria to be really fucking weird.", "The professor very specifically said \n\n1. It was an overly loud yawn\n2. It kept happening. \n3. You see people turning around and looking behind them to see where the noise came from.\n\nnot sure why you're defending this asshole for deliberately disrupting a class, but go for it.", "You didn't notice people turning around to see what was going on?", "Lol I probably wouldve done the same. I hated the ass-hat teachers in school. I sat quietly most of the time and paid attention but they always seem to have a problem with me. I didn't help myself being combative when I was being treated unfairly but I still never hesitated. \n\nIf you're not cut-out to be a teacher don't be.", "So in your world, not being allowed to yawn so loud, multiple times, that it interrupts the lecture and people are looking back to see where the noise came from (you can hear it and see people looking on the video) is oppression, but collapsing an economy and forcing people to get a vaccination for something that has a 97-99% recovery rate isn't. Because \"YoU cOuLd DiE!\" \n\nGot it. \n\nGo back to drinking your shitty coffee and wearing your Che T-Shirt there buddy.", "Who cares? Teach your class and move on. I'm defending someone who was having a natural bodily reaction. Seems like professor little dick here has let the over-priced tuition go to his head. \n\nI would not be defending anyone if they were actually being disruptive and not just yawning. I'm not sure why you're dead set on trying to make this into as big of a deal as the professor here is but if you can't handle tired college kids get a fucking job that doesn't involve them. But let's be honest, this dude could never make it in a job that doesn't involve listening to himself speak.", "Imagine education not being free in your country", "When I went to school professors literally just gave their lectures and if you fail you fail. Both you and the professor are letting some kids get under your skin and it's pretty entertaining.", "OK, we've reached the point where either you're trolling or you're an idiot. \n\nIt was so loud it was audible on the video and people looked back to see where it came from. Anyone teaching would clearly see it as an intentional disruption. Either way, have the last word.", "I don't think \"if you fail you fail\" should apply to someone disrupting a lecture, but rather to your own effort. Also, probably not the best way to do business. \n\nI think it's sad that you see writing a post on Reddit about people being rude as it \"getting under your skin\". People are rude around me all day every day. It's be really cool if they weren't, though.", "Well, you get what you pay for.", "Lmao, so you really think that education in Europe is shit just because is mostly free?", "he's acting like a douche bag, but, depending on just how \"exaggerated\" the yawns really were, i can totally see his point.", "Found the professor", "“I’m Yawn-icus”\n….\n“I’m Yawn-icus”", "I think you're so ignorant of the US educational system that you don't know why Cornell costs $40,000 a semester and you don't seem to understand you can get mostly free or entirely free education in the US. \n\nSo... GOOD JOB to your Uni!", "I love how you keep trying to shoehorn in more of your \"End is Nigh\" crazy person rants into this conversation because you're so grateful someone's finally giving you an audience.\n\nBut thanks for confirming that you are, in fact, triggered by yawning. :yawn:", "Found the self righteous angry child. Or, like, one of them.", "Lol what a snowflake. No wonder the students have no respect for him.", "Professors are typically mostly passionate about research and that's why they're there in the first place. Teaching is just one of those things you gotta do regardless if you want to or not. \n\nSo then I understand getting upset over terrible manners and conduct such as loudly yawning when you're really only there for the sake of the students. I mean I would never make a scene myself because what's the point, but this video is like professor porn. How would you feel like if a friend asked you for help with a computer program and you took your time to go and help and prepared some instructions, and then when you arrive your friend is just sitting there half-asleep and yawning?", "Studying in cornell won't get you further than anyone not studying there. It might but only because you're already coming from money to begin with. There's definitely not. 40k value coming out of studying there", "Imagine being among the overwhelming majority of adult Redditors with the maturity level of a child and siding with some intentionally disruptive dingus while paying $40,000 a semester to try and learn things. Most of you don't have to imagine.", "Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would agree with you, but unfortunately those are sparse on Reddit.", "You and I both know that you wouldn't have. You couldn't even manage to talk to girls in college.", "They turned around as soon as the professor stopped what he was doing and put his entire attention in that direction.", "You would really pay $40,000 to learn manners? Or pay that for your son/daughter to learn about manners?", "Well now I want to see John malkovich reenact this", "You the professor huh?", "Fuck. You didn't have to but you did anyways. That man had a family.... or didnt based on your comment.", "Thank god… Someone in this thread over the age of 16.", "God I was hoping the yawning guy would do it again right at the end", "Bingo.", "That would have sealed it!!!", "Imagine hearing some chucklefuck loudly and excessively yawn 5 times an hour every day and not stifling it like the rest of humanity. Attitude is as much a part of your scholarship as is the performance in your subject.", "But is it terrible manners? I'm a loud yawner. It doesn't mean when I yawn it's because I'm not interested or paying attention, I'm just tired. There are other jobs where you can do research and not teach. This guy losing his shit was more disruptive than the yawn. It just seems like an over reaction and self righteous behavior. \n\nIf I lost my shit over every client who couldn't follow simple direction, I would be out of the job.", "“We’ll stay here as long as it takes for you to confess or get ratted out”, or like 30 seconds, whichever comes first.", "I thought he was yelling at the someone adjusting their volume noise.", "What an incredibly uneducated take this is.", "Your perceived arguments are outdated. While dying of covid probably particularly sucks, that’s not what the majority of people are worried about. People educated on the subject are not using the mortality rate as their yardstick, but rather the long term effects of covid.\n\nSpecifically, in the pulmonary (that’s your lungs) and neurological (that’s your brain) systems.\n\nThe REAL argument people should have is, “if the covid vaccine is free because it helps save lives, why aren’t all vaccines, and by extension healthcare, also free?”", "imagine paying $40K to learn what Kilobyte is.", "Cocky prick", ".", "He got a bit too emotional sure, but the yawning douche is the bigger asshole there. \n \nI'd side with the professor if some kid kept disrupting my class - that I payed a lot of money for - like that.", "Looked him up and he died when he was 55. Imagine not being remembered for your contributions to education, but instead for losing your shit over a yawn.", "I love it when idiots go on the internet to say \"this is uneducated\" without presenting a counter argument. Makes it easier to just dismiss them.", "I think you're kind of missing the point of my comment. If someone says \"I'd pay a million dollars for a candy bar right now\" they're not being literal. I was saying that there's a lot of TIV having, angry children out there who hate this professor but he's right. You shouldn't disrupt a whole class just because you feel like it.", "> I'm a loud yawner. It doesn't mean when I yawn it's because I'm not interested or paying attention, I'm just tired. \n\nSure, but are you completely incapable of controlling yourself? It's not just disruptive to this professor, but to 200+ other people. And the prof indicates in the video this has happened repeatedly.\n\nI don't think any of that justified wasting everyone's time even more by throwing a temper tantrum, but I can at least see that it was rude.", "As opposed to lookin at him in surprise. \n\nFurther, the girl in the back eventually pointed to further back in the room. It's not like people were \"what? What yawn? I didn't hear a yawn!\" \n\nY'all are going through a lot of trouble to defend bad behavior.", "Do you have any evidence to support your claim? \n\nI mean, if you're an idiot, it doesn't matter what school you go to. If you're going to be a gas station attendant, it doesn't matter what school you go to. If you want a good education because you're going to work hard and try to be the top of your field, then having a good school helps dramatically. \n\nJust look at Europe, Uni is mostly free there and their children still think socialism is good!", "I love how you keep trying to shoehorn more \"you're triggered\" stuff in there. \n\nI guess the Trumpies called you triggered too much. Must have gotten under your skin and now you run around the internet claiming someone else is upset. \n\nNext time you see your therapist, tell him about this. Maybe he can help.", "[The long term affects](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-researchers-say-about-long-term-effects-covid-19-2021-10-07/). \n\nAnd if people are concerned, they can wear masks, social distance, WFH and get vaccines and boosters if they choose. \n\nThe argument here is \"I can't disrupt a lecture\" = oppression\n\n\"you must take a vaccine\" = freedom", "At this point just announce the pandemic over, regardless of factual truth.\n\nLet the ignorant /r/hermancainaward themselves out, since they’re willing to take horse dewormer over a free and approved vaccine.\n\nAlso if you’re scared of shots, just say that. Anti covid vaccine is just standard fare antivaxx at this point", "Am I incapable of yawning quietly? No. But I'm not thinking about that when I need to yawn. \n\nHe may have heard it repeatedly but had he mentioned it prior to throwing a fit like a child? If he had asked the offending party to try to be quiet that's one thing but he obviously hadn't seeing as he didn't even know who was doing it. There's also a possibility that it was a different student every time. \n\nEven with a brief interruption it's not inhibiting any of the students from learning, and I know this because I have experienced similar interruptions in school. It's pretty obvious to me the professor just took offense to someone yawning during his lecture and decided to throw a fit over it. The biggest disruption to his lecture is himself. A \"whoever is yawning loudly be quiet because I don't need interruptions\" would've sufficed.", "No, I'm just not completely stupid", "Like I said, it didn't justify the tantrum. But if someone was repeatedly yawning loudly over a span of days without themselves bringing it up and apologizing...they're just as complicit in the disruption as this teacher.", "Calm down. I'm vaccinated. \n\nMy point isn't that the vaccine is bad.\n\nMy point was that we just suffered a year long lockdown, people are being forced to take a vaccine that they neither want, nor in some cases need due to natural immunity. \n\nAnd this guy is bitching about a professor yelling at someone in a class who's being deliberately disruptive as \"oppression\"\n\nHoly shit, I understand you're operating with a virus in your brain that's making you all crazy and shit, but surely you can understand the difference between arguing about a vaccine and arguing that a year long lockdown and government mandated vaccine is CLOSER to \"oppression\" than getting yelled at in a lecture. \n\nYou cultists are getting further and further removed from reality.", "Ya I'm trying to imagine the type of person who yawns loud enough for it to be an issue in a big lecture hall and they probably are a douchebag. Yawns can be silent without really any effort.", "My what a ramble", "Holy shit these comments are a shit show. We don't know the context, the comments are acting like he is at fault. I do think he should have said sorry for addressing a single person like this in front of so many people, but beyond that i agree with him fully, we shouldn't ruby each others toxicity on each other or try to humiliate someone, but sadly sometimes pushing back is the only option to some people who do this.\n\nSadly some people exist who just have to be toxic for no reason because they have problems and the only way to address them is exactly what he is doing here.. I had a similar experience with a person like that a few weeks ago, you either have to try to put yourself in their place and in their mind or you have to address them like this.", "maybe I am a stupid pleb, but he jumped straight from telegram to kilobyte??", "You want me to make a counter argument to your claim that \"society which seems to be filled with self righteous and angry children who are both ignorant of the world and deeply convinced of their superiority\"?\n\nSure, here it is - its just plain wrong. It's an uneducated opinion based on a world view that assumes that you are one of the smartest people in the world and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and stupid. \n\nA quick read through your post history confirms this - you regularly insult people who disagree with you and accuse them of being a brainwashed cultist, simply because they disagree with you.", "You don't need to make noise when you yawn and you certainly don't need to be loud enough for a professor to hear at the front of a class. That being said this guy lost his mind over it.", "The fucker has no point. This isn't highschool, you don't delay a session \"220\" other customers paid for because of one.", "Yes because the yawning was more disruptive than a rant. Used to have a professor who would give a 10 minute lecture if someone came in late by 10 seconds about how it's rude and wastes everyone's time who's paid to be there.. while they just wasted 10 minutes by saying that. So fucking dumb.", "Also they are being paid to be there…. While students pay to be there.", "(You son of a)....", "Hey! that's like a thousand bytes!", "and he indicated it wasn't the first time either.", "> A quick read through your post history confirms this - you regularly insult people who disagree with you and accuse them of being a brainwashed cultist, simply because they disagree with you.\n\nHalf of your most recent posts are insulting people, yikes.", "It's rude to yawn loudly when someone else is speaking, and this professor is a narcissistic bozo who handled things about as poorly as one could. \n\nHis reaction was all about his own delicate ego and a sense of self-importance. If he actually wanted to impart a lesson, he could have paused and kindly said, \"I know college is difficult and sleep is hard to come by, but when you yawn theatrically, it makes you look inconsiderate and makes me think I'm boring you,\" or something like that that showed a little compassion and humor.", "Nah, it's always the butler.", "Seriously. That's forty bucks per byte!", "Yeah but nobody who yawns is making a conscious effort to yawn loudly. Like I said I'm a loud yawner. It's entirely subconscious. I could make a conscious effort to be more quiet but I'm not thinking about that in the moment.", "What was the cause of death?", "lmao", "Boredom", "If you've got someone repeatedly yawning like what was heard at the beginning of the video, it's distracting (and to some people, mildly insulting). Personally, I'd have just paused for ten seconds to say \"You seriously don't have the self control to yawn quieter? Most people learn that in pre-K.\" and moved on.", "Your comment history begs to differ", "Antivaxx psychos just can’t keep it to themselves. \n\nYou guys are the vegans of 2021.", "a KILOBYTE", "Right? Pretty sure the telegraph and telephone are somewhere in between…", "I'm vaccinated. Was vaccinated before mandates. My choice. \n\nYou're missing the point. Also Vegans are gross.", "Not $40k a semester but ok \n\nSource: went to school there and this was years before I went when it was probably closer to $40k for a year", "Cornell is a research university which means he was more likely there for research and teaching just goes along with that", "That’s….that’s not how grades work…", "Came here to say this. There's a total lack of respect from the douche that loud yawns like that on a regular basis.", "“Despite the gorge suicides, Cornell does not have an above-average suicide rate compared to other colleges. The misperception of a high suicide rate has been attributed by some to the public nature of suicides in the gorges”", "You’re going out of your way to bring misleading statistics about Covid vaccines into a comment section that has nothing to do with Covid. \n\nYou’ll understand if I go with actions being louder than words on this one.", "Misleading statistics? You're one of those \"buzzword\" arguers are you? \n\nThe point was juxtapositioning a year of lockdown and mandated vaccines vs being told to be quiet in a lecture visa vis the concept of \"oppression\". \n\nI never said anything bad about the vaccine, or getting the vaccine. But if the government said \"you can't have cheeseburgers because they're bad for you\" that'd be more oppressive than \"shhh during the lecture\". \n\nSo... your actions suggest you're still missing the point.", "sometimes on reddit i have this intense feeling of hopelessness as i look upon the one comment everybody really \"should\" be reading.", ">We don't know the context…\n\nWhen has that ever stopped anyone on the internet?", "I think it's fair to say that both parties are at wrong. While we don't have footage to evidence both perspectives, the student was presumably yawning audibly in multiple occasions. And the professor who escalated the issue unnecessarily when there were better ways to handle it at the end of lecture.", "So, you’re saying you don’t feel you’re using misleading (wrong) statistics to make your…. whatever you call that jumble of conspiracy shit?", "I understand your point about manners, I really do, but I don't think we should pretend professors are doing students favors. It's a transaction, I'm not sure how it actually works, but I would imagine at least some of the tuition the students pay goes towards the funding needed for research.\n\nFor the analogy it would be more accurate to compare it to a friend paying me a living to come by and help with a computer program. They could be half asleep or not there at all. I'm getting paid either way", "Seriously. Never heard someone say they’re pro-vaccine while also spouting “nATuRaL iMmUnITy”.", "I'm guessing that whoever posted the video was recording his or her own screen. Maybe the class was live streamed and that's why they had video cameras?", "High blood pressure I imagine", "If I was teaching a class, I would say same exact thing as professor. I have been in countless lectures as a student in middle of class this size and because of few rotten apples the other “paying customers “ are also disturbed. So yeah, if I was paying 40,000 for a semester, I would appreciate my professor stop for a minute and take care if it.", "So when you fart you just let it out without thinking about it? Doubt.", "If I paid £40k for a training course and someone erupted like this I'd expect compensation and to not have this person teaching me again. Seeing as this is uni people are expected to take it.", "> I'm a loud yawner.\n\nNo you're not. That is not an identity. You can yawn loudly in private or an appropriate setting. If you yawn loudly when quiet is expected (such as during a class), you're being an asshole, full stop.", "Was at Cornell when this happened. For the next couple weeks after this any time someone yawned someone would tell “YAWN OUTSIDE”", "Imagine not being remembered ever, even when you are alive…….not very hard for you to imagine is it.", "> Teaching is just one of those things you gotta do regardless if you want to or not.\n\nthis is the worst possible excuse you could possibly make for someone whos job is literally to teach people", "In college I had a weird hiccup-turned-burp that I couldn’t control. It was a small public speaking class. The professor made me stay after. My friends in the class were bullshit for me. I talked to the professor and cleared it all up. Still got a 4.0. That was in like 2002. Some professors are on a serious power trip. In all honesty, it prepared me for real life a bit more. You’re always going to encounter higher level coworkers on a power trip that think their “Doctorate”title means they’re supreme (unless you run your own business) But yeah, stifle that shit when it’s rude. Learn to roll with stuff and don’t let it rile YOU up too much. I now work for a large corporation, and I’m nowhere near the top. Sometimes you have to wear the “dunce cap” to make the higher ups feel like they put you in your place. It’s dumb, but choose your moments to act accordingly.", "If the class has a problem, they'll report the student themselves. The professor is just on a power trip.", "I’m going to assume it’s an intro to circuits or signals class since he mentioned a telegram and was explaining a kilobyte.", "As someone paying, I'd tell them to shut the fuck up if the professor didn't (shrug).", "What a fucking cunt.", "Daddy chill", "I’ve always found these kinds of people interesting to “test” through trial and error. To challenge myself to tote the line and see if I can’t get them to like me while being sarcastic. Mental chess is my favorite. Like if I had said “come on, while we can both agree the material is important, you have to agree this isn’t the most entertaining subject to read about”. Trying to predict his reaction or what he would say and then seeing the outcome regardless is just interesting.", "from yawning", "This root of the issue here though was him making a mountain out of a mole hill. His easily offended ego was way too triggered to let a \"loud yawn\" slide under the radar without turning it into a frenzy. He took it as a personal affront to his very being and whipped himself into a frenzy over it. Both of those things combined are the red flags to his underlying issues.\n\nThe irony is people who constantly get nuts over small things probably have bad life situations that they have created for themselves with their constant bad attitudes. It's a self perpetuating downward spiral. It gets to the point where they eventually take umbrage to everything and leads to depression making it even worse. They have short fuses and way too many buttons for their own good, to the point that not even their loved ones can love them anymore. \n\nIt's very important every now and then in life, to see yourself from the outside in... in a very real and honest way. Revaluate and make course corrections. Applied small changes over time can have huge effects in the grand scheme. \n\nOn some odd level I have empathy for this man's faults, because I can see they are easily correctable. While minor in this selected moment, these types of behaviors repeated constantly at work and at home can have huge deleterious effects on life. It's easy to fall into a routine of bad social behavior like this, if you take a series of bad turns, it becomes cumulative and you train yourself to be jaded, bitter and angry. The end effects can be divorce or alienating themselves in a relationship with their kids or even being fired from their career. \n\nHe has to learn temperance and learn not to indulge his inclinations to anger. ie: Self Discipline. Something we can all do when we apply ourselves. If he can't fulfil this on his own he should get phycological help. In reality how many people do we know in life that fit this man's personality type though? How many of those type to fix their situation or seek help to fix it? Weak egos tend to never admit fault or seek help. Sadly, it's rare and everyone else has to deal with their toxicity.", ">if you can't handle tired college kids get a fucking job that doesn't involve them.\n\nIf you don't want to learn the content, fuck off and leave the other students in peace to learn.", "I barely heard the yawn but I could see that getting on my nerves if it kept happening. But all I could think about was what if the student was yawning because they work and barely get any sleep before class and this was the only section being offered.", "That is why I would have went into teaching college kids just for the grants and then have my graduate assistant teach the classes like most of my high level engineering courses. Why waste my time on students who aren’t eager to learn? I honestly did not go to class half the time because if I had their power points or lecture I could teach myself, which is how I think it should be. Learn the material before going to class and then go if you have questions.", "Also the campus and area is depressing as hell. They even got these small walking bridges over deep ridges with nets all inside them because apparently cause some people jumped over. Maybe cause they had this guy as a professor", "loud yawn", "Imagine having a career at Wendy’s.", "Hahaha God damn son - they pull you out of a y2k bunker or something?\n\nWho even speaks like that any more? Hahaha", "I believe 40k a semester would be an all expenses paid + tuition price.", "Wow, one teacher for 221 students? That’s not education.", "Seems like he got a few laughs from his classmates", "Even his rant was boring. Yyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn", "Time for some self reflection.", "WHAT THE HELL IS EVEN THAT?", "Andy Bernard is NOT. HAVING. IT.", "Haha found the professor.", "As soon as he turns around. BAM. Yawn. Would have loved to see the prof flip his shit.", "Another poster says he's passed away. Seeing as you know who he is, can you confirm he is no longer?", "Is his class ‘how to be a douche’? He’s got his Doctorate in that field.", "Well now it makes total sense that he would get pissed off at the loud yawning.", "Very well said. Where was this when I was like 17? Lol Anyways this is very true and tragic.", "Don't be a retard.", "This kind of emotional fragility is what's creating fragility in the next generation.", "This seems to be a world wide problem in universities that do research. Being a top researcher does not make you a good lecturer especially if you only wanted to do the science part of the job.", "i dont know if those brackets were totally necessary", "Didnt have to press play to be able to say...no, i cant imagine that.", "Get the fuck over yourself. There’s a reason you’re in academia instead of the private sector.", "Had a professor that would laugh and say \"Let me know if I'm keeping you awake!\" whenever someone loud yawned in class. Very different response.", "Or if the class did it on masse, in a Spartacus show of solidarity.", "What a dipshit", "“The kilobyte was invented in 1905 by sir Edmond Kilo Byte. When we travel back in time we find that even the most boring of stories becomes quite the yarn. Join me on a journey to a world of black and white ppt slides and garbled shorthand.. let’s begin. No yawning.”", "Must be his ghost.", "I don't think he'll be learning anything. \n\nHe passed away like six years ago.", "What word would you prefer, my triggered little angel?", "Oh gosh I'm so offended /s\n\nCome on mate. You speak like you're 14 but also somehow exclusively limited to browsing internet archives of dial-up era forums.\n\nIf you're young, get on tik tok and refresh the zingers I guess, but no one has any right to go around confounding people with all these anachronisms.\n\nWhat do I have to do, fax you back an insult?", "You really showed him! \n\nby being the exact stereotype he was making fun of", "Guys, I’m being serious here.", "Sorry you’re not seeing the big picture. This professor is right. Yawning disruptively in a class is not only disrespectful towards the teacher, but for the other students who are paying a lot of money to be there, regardless of how “boring” anyone thinks it is. No one has to go to college, no one has to take classes. He’s right, take the yawning outside. It’s extremely rude.", "Lol likewise.", "You’re not thinking about it period, and that’s your problem. Your disrupting a class that OTHERS have paid to attend regardless of how tired you feel. I can yawn quietly, why can’t you? It’s not that hard. Have some consideration, you are not the most important person in that room, because that person is actually the professor. They are all there to hear that person talk.", "Telegram? No one really used telegrams. I mean, they were plot devices for TV shows, but really? \n\nDid he mean telegraph?", "Shut up old man, schools for losers! Teachers suck. They should get real jobs instead of hassling me with homework and stupid facts and dumb knowledge. /s", "You have a lot to learn about life, kid.", "If Covid didn't do it....meh I'm being a dick I guess.", "I agree. I think it's an odd dichotomy, with \"gradual\" being the key. \n\nWhat they're essentially doing is gaining self-confidence in their power; and in the most negative way. \n\nIt's like... Oh shit! Did I just speak out? Yeah. I did. Too late to stop now. I'm gonna double-down! That's right! I'm speaking up! I have authority here! DO YOU HEAR ME?! Wait... do I hear me? Oh, God, what am I doing? Don't show fear! Yes, I'm in control! YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME. Ah shit... I'm a douche and I'm going cry alone tonight.", "Ving Rhames", "Do you know my boss? You've described them perfectly.", "Yeah but your mom remembers me.", "This is a college level course? What's next, graham crackers, chocolate milk and a nap?", "He heard voices yawning.", "Unless this guy is using an ouija board, that is highly unlikely.", "\n>As an example, in that same room every Friday morning, there is a mandatory lecture series for the entire freshman class where all of the students have to wear formal dress (Ie dress or suit/tie).\n\nOh cool, so on top of over $76,000/year (https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/new-york/cornell-university/price/) to attend, let's throw on the cost to have and clean formal wear to sit in a lecture hall. Seriously, fuck everything about that.", "What a terrible professor.", "What wrong statistics am I using?", "Okay, that was good. \n\nTrolls gonna troll, I get it.", "If you wouldn‘t think about and type that shit during nighttime, maybe you still had a future at Cornell.", "You're touching upon a pretty large problem: when a professor really wants to research/publish and is forced to teach, they can also half-ass the teaching aide, or treat it like they're doing students a favor by teaching them.", "Are we talking about farting?", "I mean if you can't consciously avoid yawning even though it's extremely rude and looked down upon when you do it in front of people it must mean you fart and burp in front of them to?", "Anyone who uses \"full stop\" exudes pretentious grandiosity. I yawn loudly subconsciously. If I make a conscious effort not to I can yawn quietly I can do so but I'm not usually thinking about that because A) I'm tired B) I don't expect some self important ass-hat to lose their shit over something so minor. Please tell me more about myself.", "It was 2010, so that seems unlikely.", "Meh, this is still pretty ok.", "The kid wasn't banging fucking pots together in the back of the auditorium. They yawned. If you can't pay attention to class because someone yawned you have bigger issues to address.", "They are hospitality students my dude. That's like getting angry about ROTC students performing training on the weekend.", "I mean it's an ivy league university what'd you expect? If you get in and can't afford it they just pay it for you.", "They use it as a 1.5hr test to see if you can hold in a yawn.", "Okay this comment is just bullshit. Yawning and farting aren't even on the same level. Also sometimes you can't control a yawn, fart, burp, or sneeze it just comes out. I've been able to pay attention with bigger disruptions, ADHD, and at a younger age. But I also don't behave like a grown ass child so.🤷‍♂️\n\nYawning isn't disrespectful, it's just something you do when you're tired and sometimes as a reaction to someone else yawning. How overly dramatic...", "He yawned and a bee flew into his mouth, and then he choked on said bee", "\"The kilobyte is the powerhouse of the cell\"", "Ok. You understand ad hominem only works if you achieve some type of respect first right? You have to matter to someone in some fashion before what you say matters to them.", "I went to Cornell and it was by far the cheapest option I had. They essentially paid me to go there since my family was not well off. The ivy leagues are \"need-blind\" if you can get in but can't pay, they will always make it affordable. I ended up graduating from Cornell with 0 debt and my parents did not help me with college.", "I do and you don’t. You have now responded several times to someone that doesn’t matter. I bet i can get you to do it again.", "We can now see where Andy Bernard comes from…", "What I would give to see a new magic school bus remake with this guy as Mrs frizzle. Whole episodes of him ragging out Arnold.", "Not really. It would be like ROTC if they had to provide their own uniforms equipment etc. Plus those in ROTC sometimes get scholarships in exchange.", "It is my belief angry people die sooner.", "Good shit. Yawning won’t be loud. People who loudly yawn are obnoxious,rude and saying they are bored when they can’t talk or need attention. You can yawn without people hearing. You are mostly inhaling so making noise is people just being loud when they yawn. The professor is talking and they are still getting paid to have the attention of whoever is there and to educate students . If Students are bored or disruptive , they can act like adults and walk out. They are wasting their own time and money. If it’s a one time thing, professor is just an asshole looking for an excuse to show it.", "Right that's what I meant. I went to Columbia too and I was more remarking on the price as well as the over the top nature of the hospitality school", "I didn't see anything wrong with his reaction. Some jackoff was intentionally making a scene in his class and showing him massive disrespect? And he is supposed to ignore that?", "Or he just a bad day, like all of us have from time to time.\n\nI don't feel those 2 minutes of video justify a psychiatric profile of \"this man's faults\". \n\nThere's a former student of his further down below in the thread decribing him as pleasant and friendly with his stundents.", "Snitches get stitches.", "Uh yeah, i don't know anyone who needs to AUDIBLY yawn when they yawn. Whoever did it was intentionally being a massive douchebag.", "The yawn was WAY less disruptive than his fucking tirade.", "I refuse to use the metric system!", "What the fuck is a 'loud yawn'? Are you physically incapable of yawning without adducting your vocal cords? Did you have a stroke?", "Thank god. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.", "Oh shit, you're TROLLING. Ok, gotit. You got me for a second.", "Yeah, his voice is very similar to John Malkovich's voice. lol I didn't notice it until I saw this comment.", "https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/10/mark-talbert-senior-lecturer-sha-dies-age-55", "Nobody normal becomes this from \"a bad day\"", "[https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/comment/hhtq0z1/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/comment/hhtq0z1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)\n\nHow about listening to someone who actually knew the man?", "You are going to need to pay more than $40000 grand to learn from this guy, given how dead he is currently.", "🥱", "What the fuck is Hotel school? American education is fucking weird.", "It would actually be really annoying to teach people who were falling asleep. I was definitely one of those people in college and I always felt bad when it happened.", "What a dweeb", "How do you know? Can you give some more details? Thanks!", "Meh, there are programs like that in Swedish universities too, called \"service management\". It's everything from being a tourist guide to managing hotels as far as I can tell.", "Yeah he should ignore it, because he's wasting everyone's time", "Its an old vid, probably paid more like 1000 per semester", "When I was in college, this never happened.\n\nIf some professor said something like like this, I'd have come down to the front and loudly address the class.\n\nThen I would explain to the entire class that I hadn't slept in 3 days so I'm a bit tired, but I'm still here for this shitbag's class. Let's all go to the student Union and take a nap in the nice chairs and I'll take the fall. Then I'll do it again. I'll be the stinging gadfly in the class and I'll make it my point to fail it every year just to ruin this guys day for the rest of my life. Then I'll come back 10 years later and take classes from him just to be a bastard and I'll just spend the rest of my life ruining things.\n\nOr he can shut the fuck up. \n\nI never put up with that shit when I was in grade school, middle school, high school, college, work, or ever. No-one gets to be a petty child around me.\n\nI have grumpy pants.", "Looks like there’s a decent hospitality program at IULM Milan, and good programs throughout Europe including at Oxford. I had to check if this was a uniquely American thing to get formal training in, since I know of a few people who took this path.", "It didn't seem like that big of an outburst to me. I have had way worse from teachers", "The really weird and over the top outburst and it being someone from Cornell leads me to the only logical conclusion, that the teacher is indeed: Andy Bernard.", "I mean it kind of sounds like you like to behave like a petty child if that's how you react to things.", "Nochillitis", "I'm Swiss and we have these too. [Glion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glion_Institute_of_Higher_Education) is apparently one of the best. If you're Italian surely you have these programs there as well?", "[Glion Institute of Higher Education](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glion_Institute_of_Higher_Education) \n \n >Glion Institute of Higher Education (informally Glion) is an international hospitality management school with campuses in Switzerland and the UK. It offers Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees, as well as summer programs. All programs are taught in English, and the school offers specialized English language courses to students that require them. Established in 1962 as the Institut International de Glion, the school was founded by Swiss professors Walter Hunziker and Frédéric Tissot on the site of the former Grand Hôtel Bellevue, in Glion sur Montreux, Switzerland.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Desktop version of /u/san_murezzan's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glion_Institute_of_Higher_Education>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "We would throw paper airplanes at our second year calculus prof and he would just ignore them. I got an ovation once for sticking the landing on top of an exit sign.\n\nYes we were awful and he was a saint.", "I am Yawnicus!", "I know a program like this in Germany also.", "sleep deprivation", "Why is this viral-worthy? Maybe he goes a bit OTT but this is pretty justified imo.", "https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/10/mark-talbert-senior-lecturer-sha-dies-age-55", "It's a degree for people who plan to work in hospitality. It's not just an American thing. Most places have degrees like this, and they're especially popular in countries where tourism is an important part of GDP. We have degrees like that in Mexico for example", "From what and actual student of this professor [is saying](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/imagine_paying_40000_a_semester_for_this/hhtq0z1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) a lot of people left with fond memories of him. I don't think he'll be remembered for this by most people, just by a small group of people on the internet", "I read this as \"the stories becomes quite the yawn\" and loved. Even funnier as written. May start all my stories with \"let's begin. No yawning.\" from now on.", "You know what a lecture is right?", "There's someone further up who was a student of his and quite clearly says that he was unironically a very pleasant professor who tried to keep his lectures light and fun. I think we're seeing his worst reaction from his lectures. It feels like an overreaction, but I get why it must have struck a nerve.", "I figured it was a test on how you deal with an angry Karen / Kevin when they want to talk to your manager AKA you", "It's not his main job. It's one of the things that the university kind of pushes professors to do. Their main job and the reason often they're working at a university is so they can do research. They're often not there to teach, contrary to popular belief.", "shhhh, hive mind Reddit goldfish have their pictchforks out.", "You can suppress and hold in a yawn, or do it discretely if you must. It's very basic manners.", "That's because the only people qualified to teach the topic at a university level are the experts i.e. researchers. \n\nAnd it's not really a problem. I personally can't recall ever having a professor incapable of teaching. Some are worse than others, but then you just gotta work a little harder as a student.", "So because you're getting paid you dont deserve some basic decency and respect?", "I had a professor like this in Germany who would absolutely freak out if anyone took a photo of his lessons on the whiteboard. He would literally use his body to cover as much as possible and yell, \"get out this is my copyright!\" I don't know why but most professors in Germany think they're godlike.", "expelled", "Interesting. Can you give a more in depth explanation and list your education background in psychology?", "Who suggested SELF REFLECTION. \n\nI'm not leaving the comments until someone speaks up!", "And probably the people in that specific class. I would remember it if one of my teachers lost his shit over something so benign.", "Well that sounds very arrogant. Was everything you said based on this 3 minute long video?\n\nLet me present an alternate view. The prof said \"I have been hearing it in this room like regularly\". Now assuming the possibility of one person being immature asshole in the group of 200+ people is greater than the possibility of this professor being bonkers, what if some immature asshole has been comically exaggeratingly yawning for some time? \n\nI have attended university with 300+ people in a lecture and we had few people purposefully distracting and doing dumb shit when they were bored.", "To be honest. I think the lecturer is absolutely spot on.", "Assuming somebody was doing it on purpose, then he was distracting not only the professor, but also the rest of 200+ students. Taking less than 2 minutes out of single lecture to address this issue sounds like a very good use of time actually.", "Well if his pleasant side is as pleasant as his bad side is bad then judging from the video the guy is pretty pleasant.", ">I yawn loudly subconsciously.\n\nThen when you feel like yawning start consciously yawning quietly like the rest of the world. Nobody is a \"quiet yawner\". The rest of us just have manners.", "I always find it funny when people get angry over yawns. Yawning is your brain trying to increase its oxygen supply. It only happens when you're actually trying to stay awake, which can be challenging for anyone early in the morning. Ever been to an exam location? Notice how 90% of the examinees will keep yawning throughout the test; it's not because of boredom.\n\nSure, don't yawn loudly, obnoxiously and invitingly. But the fact that someone yawns in and of itself is the exact opposite of disrespect. They're trying to pay attention!", "Because thats the world we are currently living in. Any kind of authority is frowned upon. Everything is an abuse of power and nobody is innocent.", "same", "Nobody is required to attend. If you choose to, you probably want to hear what the guy is saying, not someone comically yawning.", "Most people have a professional outfit... Really...\n\nI'd wager that most people haven't had to dry clean a thing in their lives.\n\n\nFor your last point I'd say you are correct, a suit would be far cheaper than textbooks, and definitely more reusable since with text books they just change out a page every year and make you buy the new version.\n\n\nBut with most of the world living in poverty to serve the rich... I just don't see even close to half of the population as having a professional \"outfit\"\n\nUnless you count everyone in a fast food uniform as having a professional outfit?", "Something you should know: his level of very bad-assery is the same as his level of coolness.", "It incredibly disrespectful to someone who is trying to educate you and also funny in an 80’s “I’ve got detention with the Principal” kind of way.", "You can often take a class or two in anything you find interesting.", "I'm gonna continue to yawn loudly just to piss off crybabies like you. It's not impolite to yawn. I'm sorry you're boring and insecure about it.", "I was there too! I was the one thst yawned.", "People are giving him shit for lashing out. He states that he's been hearing it often. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a \"bro\" ironically yawning to his other \"bros\" as if to say it's a boring class. Imagine paying 40000 a semester to do that", "Someone should organize a mass yawn event.", "Also, tuition is far less than $40k per course", "It's multicam, so not sure what that means for the circumstances.", "University is a waste of fucking time for most people. Unless your dream profession needs it, like being a doctor, then I hope you have a scholarship because otherwise you’re getting robbed. \n\nI hired a guy, 20 years old, brilliant. No college. Just learned his skills solo, which anyone can do, and probably better than learning at university. He’s a multi millionaire now.\n\nAlmost none of the brilliant people I have hired have been university educated. Some are, but I highly doubt university is what did it for them. \n\nI mean to each their own but if you’re ever ashamed you don’t have a college degree don’t sweat it. Just to amazing shit. The right people will notice.", "It was someone outside", "There's a reason even general psychology field is one of the worst offenders in the great replication crisis that plagued (and is currently plaguing) most of the \"soft\" sciences in recent years. (psychology, sociology, and many other social sciences like political science, etc)\n\nIts not just reddit armchair psychology that's causing harm, even regular psychologists are doing this.\n\n[For more info](https://nobaproject.com/modules/the-replication-crisis-in-psychology)", "Are you sure there is not a more mature option that would solve the issue?", "I had a professor like this. Same type of classroom too. Saw him lose his shit repeatedly over nothing. \n\nAlso had a professional rescuer cpr trainer like this. And it was for a college credit, semester long class. She was abusive. Just outright yelling and screaming. Her code of conduct speech was half of the first class. She was very good at being a life-saving first responder, in years and health care jobs since I don't think I've seen better, but she was professionally abusive. \n\nA student's phone dinged once. She demanded everyone turn off phones. She lost it. Screaming. Kicked him out of the class for good.\n\nShe'd been there for forever. I had a teacher evaluation to do at the end and she loved me because I had lots of healthcare experience and knew a lot of what she was talking about. She came back twice to the room to ask \"everyone done yet?\" And it was just me writing (I'm sure these are all online now to avoid this).\n\nI wrote a page on how good teaching doesn't need abuse, how her behavior would get anyone else in any other public setting the cops called, and that she was unfit to teach with her childish and abusive mentality. \n\nChatted with her long after handing that in (they all went in an envelope to be typed up and given to her as feedback anonymously) because her class was actually very informative and I knew a lot of it so it was two professionals talking shop. But she knew I wrote for 20 minutes when everyone else was done in 5. So she knew my review was me.", "Part of a teacher’s/professor’s job is to control the classroom. He’s not wasting their time, he’s doing his job.", "I'd have gotten about halfway through that rant and told him to stop screaming about bodily functions or pay me back the $50 that just cost me.", "Little details about what happened and some support services boilerplate text below the article... Reads bad", "Or you just want to graduate.", "This professor passed away", "He was just really sleepy. Tuckered out little guy.", "Then you are not required to attend.", "Is that how college works?", "Good to hear that it's not that common after all. I've studied education so I'm often critical about this kind of stuff like the structure of lessons, assesment and assignments.", "Thats how university worked when I attended and I cant imagine anyone taking down attendance of 200+ people. You are required to attend classes, not lectures. Of course the classes assumed you learned the topic in a lecture before. \n\nI started skipping some lectures after first semester and didnt attend a single lecture in my last year.", "People audibly yawn all the time. Like ALL THE TIME. I've even seen people who yawned and being much louder than they thought they would be, get really embarassed that it happened. Not saying that this is the case here but your take is so wrong.", "Mad?", "I'm a loud farter. I'm just gassy. Sorry not sorry.", "I got so angry watching this. Motherfucker, I pay YOU 40.000 a year to teach ME. If I want to dress up as Dorothy and spaceout on acid while you talk, I blood well will. So long as I don't disturb the lecture hundreds of other students have paid 40.000 a year for, I can do whatever the fuck I want in that lecture room. \n\n\nIn fact, how the fuck do you dare to scold me, using up lecture time that hundreds of people paid 40.000 for? \n\n\nGet the fuck back to doing your job, right now.", "What a piece of shit. What kind of insecure cunt is this", "stitches get snitches", "Yawning extra loud (communicating boredom) is really benign according to a lot of comments here. Until someone does it to you. Then it is disrespect.", "The context is missing. He mentions that this happened several times before, which sounds a lot like an attention grabbing student. I don't think voicing his displeasure at this sign of disrespect is a bad thing, and it was only a minor interruption altogether. At least the yawner now knows where he stands.", "It's possible to keep it almost completely silent, how else do you think ninjas does it?", "A lot of people were left with fond memories of serial rapists and murderers too. Psychopaths can be charming when they want. This guy was fucked in the head and kept it together enough of the time to get where he got. Having fond memories of someone acting like a normal person sometimes isnt reality.", "Imagine being such a douche that you have to make a room full of people watch the volume of their already barely audible yawns. Get a fucking life.", "What you just said is called projecting. Not everything that seems like you experienced is actually what went down.", "You sound like a wife making excuses for her husband who beats her on the regular, not seeing the toxic person he truely is, trying to explain “but he’s really nice most of the time he just gets a little angry when dinner isn’t quite warm enough”.", "Jesus, ya'll think this is bad? Should been in college in the 80s. I had a professor zip a clipboard at a dude.", "I don't know about angry but being pessimistic can cut off a few years of life. First learned that from deathclock.com as a wee kid just trying to explore the internet gods the nostalgia.", "Lol, same here, I was hoping for one little “click” at the end just to set the asshole off.", "The real outrage is 40,000 a year and he's teaching what a kilobyte is.", "lollll", "I'm glad someone here in the comments doesn't jump on the bandwagon that the title creates. The first question to ask yourself when watching things on the internet is \"Do I have the full/both sides of the story?\" which is usually answered with a no.", "A kilobyte", "I was just responding to Zealot's comment about how he would be remembered over him loosing his shit at yawning and not teaching which is clearly not true if people who actually studied there remember his teaching.\n\nEven with that though, what you're saying is a bit... Dramatic don't you think? I don't think anyone here is claiming he's a serial rapist or a murderer. At most people are saying he was a bitter man, or that he was always angry in classes but we have people who studied under him saying that was not the case at all to what they saw. Sure, maybe he was an awful human being behind closer doors, I can't completely rule that out either, but I can't really rule it out either for you, or for OP. It's just this is a bit flimsy if people who actually knew him say otherwise and all we have to go on in a short video where it's pretty clear this isn't the first time someone yawned loudly in the middle of his class. Hardly enough to somehow \"prove\" he's a psychopath.", "This happened in 2010 and he died in 2015 he was probably getting shit for it those entire 5 years every new kid in the class eventually finds out he's the yawn guy. He worked at Cornell since 1996 and he must have taught thousands of students and yet this video has probably been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who only know and remember him as the yawn guy.", "I bet this guy is fun at parties.", "Has to be a Democrat.", "I would have loved to have seen the whole class get ip and leave when he said to yawn outside", "Suppressing yawns. Turns out yawning is a healthy way to get more oxygen into your system", "Getting this stream of responses about yawning to death has made me yawn more in one day than I have all week.", "Seems like he had some severe issues. That's how I will remember him.", "- \"A kilobyte...\"\n\n\n\n - Student: \"BORING!\"", "It was 2010, not the dark ages. Lectures were absolutely being recorded and uploaded and to a lesser extent livestreamed", "Cry baby go WAAAAAA!", "yawn", "Oof, 55. Way too young. RIP.", "How dare you have a normal bodily function", "Lol, that's sooo american.", "I mean this is reddit but don't you think that would be a bit too childish?\n\nPeople seem to forget that intentionally loud yawning is just an insult like any other.", "Webcams yes. Live streamed lectures, less so.", "Yes, livestreams were uncommon.", "The number of his students is fixed, the number of people that will see this video from anywhere in the world is not, and considering the video has 10 million views it is unlikely it is \"just by a small group of people on the internet\".", "True, but on the flipside, I'm willing to bet most people here will forget about this guy in the near future, whereas his students won't", "True as well, I will most likely forget about him within the week. But if I in the unlikely event hear about another professor feeling personally attacked by a loud yawn, this video will rush back into my mind.", ">my bad side is as bad as my pleasant side is pleasant \n \n\"I'm a fucking psychopath.\"", ">A kilobyte... \n \nI was waiting for someone to immediately yawn again. Would've been hilarious to see him lose it.", "He died 5 years later.", "More like high chair psychology.", "Everyone’s an expert on reddit", "what? what schools did you go to", "Fun at parties. Man oozes calm and confident.", "We had \"distance learning\" classes in my shitty little high school of less than 200 people (and that's 7th-12th) in rural Alabama in 1998... Most of the more advanced classes, especially dual-enrollment classes, were taught from the larger county school or the community college that funded the program. There were multiple monitors and all the campuses could see and hear each other. This tech is far from new...", "“School is not a place for smart people” ~ Rick Sanchez.", "He’s deprived of basic decency and respect? Student in class was yawning not playing a kazoo! Students are paying obscene amount of money to listen him talk, if someone is tired and still want to participate in class they have every right. No one is advocating for him to put up with genuinely obtrusive behavior but for and anywhere near Average salary for a professor at Cornell (175k.) he should be able to keep his shit together if someone is yawning in an amphitheater filled with university students.", "I agree. Imagine paying $40,000 a year and try not to get anything out of class and then choose to rile up a professor for laughs", "I'm sorry but I don't quite see the problem here. So the teacher raised his voice, the situation gets a bit uncomfortable. If you have a problem with this, you are going to have a tough life ahead of you.", "The video started with the telegram and how nobody knows what a telegram, which a disappointing/condescending tone. Yeah, no shit because they're inconvenient masses pieces of shit in today's world. I would overly yawn too at this point.", "You pay that much and still have a large classroom like this?", "Nobody is paying $40k a semester.", ">He passed away \n\n[https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/10/mark-talbert-senior-lecturer-sha-dies-age-55](https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/10/mark-talbert-senior-lecturer-sha-dies-age-55)", "Thought that too 🤣", "You’re probably getting downvoted because you said you’re an early adopter of BTC lol. A lot of Reddit hates crypto with a passion. I’m with you though, I’ve got a few thousand dollars invested across a few cryptos because I genuinely think it has a big future.", "Well I mean we had live streamed classes in 2004, its not all that crazy.", "That big lecture while upset\n\n\"A Kilobyte...\"", "Based on the grammar, you are definitely a Cornell alum.", "I think I'm about to have my first actual boomer moment here, but the people in this thread who are calling out the professor need to sack the fuck up. Oh no, the bad man yelled!!! Go sit in your safe space with your fidget spinners you whiny fucks. \n\nJust because you're paying $40k per semester (and you aren't even paying, that's mommy and daddy footing that bill) doesn't entitle you to be a disruptive twat waffle in class. Stfu and take notes. Or doodle. Or skip class. Or do literally anything that doesn't interrupt class for 200+ other people who are making an effort. After all, their parents aren't spending $40k for you to disrupt class with your cake eater. \n\nFucking overly entitled, self absorbed, soft batch bitches like poking the bear but then blames the bear when it bites your face off. Fuck you and double fuck your parents for unleashing their hypersensitive, woe is me, can't handle criticism or be held accountable for anything, crybaby asses on the world. Go cry about it to your Snapchat followers.", "This is two minutes of someones life. I’m sure if you find the right two minutes of my life, you could create any claims from schizophrenic to crazed meth addict.", "Imagine paying $40,000 a semester to have this a-hole student distracting you from your class every day.\n\nImagine paying $40,000 a semester to have lecture with 200+ other students.\n\nImagine paying $40,000 a semester if this lecturer wasn't able to manage the distracting behaviors in a class of over 200 students. \n\nHonestly, expect more for your money. This is a best case scenario in a lecture with 200+ students in attendance. There will be a student there that doesn't want to be there. At least this class is taught 1 by a professor 2 that is easily understood and 3 will squash down behaviors that affect the rest of the students' experiences. This isn't high school where no child is left behind. Grow up or get out.", "> I wouldn't be surprised if it was a \"bro\" ironically yawning to his other \"bros\" as if to say it's a boring class\n\nYou must have taken Bro Classroom Ecology last semester", "Your question made me Google and TIL that you can still send telegrams.\n\nhttps://sendtelegram.com/", "This is like one of those over the top /r/relationshipadvice comments. He left the toilet seat up? RED FLAG. This often leads to domestic abuse. Leave him now!! Please post an update to let us know you are safe. \n\nDrawing all you have said from this one clip is mental.", "If you want to \"read\" a picture book, go back to IG and TikTok, genius.", "Hotel managers and night auditors use computers extensively. Like most college courses, it probably goes deeper than necessary into the subject in the interest of learning and expanding students' skillsets.", "First half I was like this guy’s an insecure dickhead. Second half I was like okay I get it and he makes a fair point. Then he’s like « someone should tell me who it is anonymously. » Get fucked.", "Youre being downvoted because your comment feels /r/iamverysmart \n\nParticularly the last sentence. \n\nAlso, bitching about downvotes gets more downvotes.", "Recording lectures has been very common since before 2010, especially for these big ivy league lectures", "40K to get degraded for yawning 🥱", "A KILOBYTE! \n\nThat lecture would put me to sleep too.", "Great, you can say it backwards.", "do you mean that the tiny number of teachers that you've experienced were abusive and you have no idea about the other 99.999% of teachers?", "this is fine, and should be okay anywhere", "That dude beats his wife.", "it was back here? I've been hearing suggestions of self reflection in this room, like, regularly", "This little ho knows how to channel his tiny pp energy", "You think he had a big positive impact on more students than will see this video online? seems like 100x more people will know him for the outburst.", "Lol fucking Andy Bernard over here with this bullshit", "Generally for tenure-track faculty at a research university, it's not the primary job, and they won't get tenure or advance rank for their teaching skills.", "... and end up in ditches...", "Research very often isn't being funded by tuition. \n\nI work at a university research center, and neither our salaries nor our research programs are paid out of tuition. It's all from various endowments and grants. That's pretty common in research universities.\n\nOccasionally I teach courses, and even my pay for that isn't covered by tuition; wealthy donors are the ones financing me to teach undergrads.", "There's nothing to say that this is live streamed and not simply a recorded lecture.", "There's nothing to suggest that this was live streamed, and not a recorded lecture. Recording lectures is relatively common.", "You're also making an assumption and hypothesizing the worst out of a situation based on a 3 minute long video. Except, we actually have evidence of their comment and you have absolutely NO evidence to back up your alternate view. \n\nTheir comment was compassionate and well thought and empathetic. Yours was \"probably just some kids being immature.\"\n\nWith all that being said, I specifically can testify--having had surgery on my esophagus--that I yawn loudly. I cannot help it. I had a professor call it out one time, except in a light-hearted and joking manner. We all laughed, myself included even though I was a little embarrassed. The situations were completely different, I'm not comparing the two, merely stating that I have yawned loudly in a small classroom with a professor and she thought it was funny.", ".........I cannot believe the amount of money that is spent on such inane bullshit", "Funny, I've had mostly amazing teachers with only the occasional shit professor. And the bad ones were mostly just unclear/inept, not abusive. There's definitely abusive teachers like the one in this video but I don't feel that's a norm.", "Ok gj you found the 2nd worst excuse", "Fire this fuck.", "That be relevant if I wasn't responding to someone asking if it was livestreamed.", "Okay? I was responding to someone's question about it being livestreamed", "It isn't a question of technology, it is question of whether it was done. And it wasn't livestreaming lectures wasn't that common a decade ago. And Cornell isn't a small rural school, so even less need on that front.", "I currently watching The Office for the first time and if i remember correct Andy attended Cornell? This is such a Andy Bernard thing to do.", "They might be fewer, but he'll have a more lasting effect on the students and the academic community that knew him. I wouldn't call this his legacy. It's one incident in what I assume is a long, and if the student above is to be believed, quite good teaching career", "Wow. You're so wicked smaht", "i had a professor chew me out for yawning in class. at the time i really didn't know it was rude. i had never been taught that it was rude to yawn. i just thought it was a physical symptom of fatigue. if anything that i was in his class trying to stay awake against being tired that should be taken as a compliment. there's all sorts of basic shit that kids don't learn in their formative years. i recently had to teach my 17 year old niece that she can't say \"i'm gonna kill you\" as hyperbole. she thought that it mattered that she didn't mean it for real. as UPS driver i constantly get full grown adults like in their 30s that think they should sign someone else's name. there's probably a whole bunch of people reading this that don't know *YOU ONLY SIGN YOUR OWN NAME.* even in places where you think your wife's or friend's signature goes and they're cool with you signing for them. they don't teach you any of this shit in school.", "I don’t think so. That may be part of it but every time crypto gets brought up I see tons of comments saying how it’s a scam in one form or another.", "Which kinda proves my point though. \n\nStill in use... no one uses. Lol", "I'm sorry you aren't able to deal with the facts of the matter.", "My assumption is extremely reasonable. Who is likely to be more immature, a professor teaching at a prestigious university or one of his 200+ 18 year olds students?\n\nI actually dont have to assume that in the first place. The proof is in the video itself. The professor said \"I have been hearing it in this room like regularly\". Nobody questioned that claim. Furthermore nobody admitted to that yawn. If that yawn had a reason behind it, like you yourself have, it would be a simple matter to explain it. If that was one off mistake the student could just simply apologize for it. Neither happened. Not taking responsibility for your action is the surest sign of immaturity. Finally I see no reason to assume the professor just blew up over nothing. Somebody ITT even said he used to be his student and that this professor was very good at dealing with his students.\n\nAdd everything together and you have one immature student that was repeatedly exaggeratingly yawning (disrupting the lecture) and a professor that took 2 minutes to address this issue.", "Friend. You are in the medical field, I suggest you look into a disorder called \"Misophonia\". It's when your fight or flight response fires from certain triggering sounds. Eating, crunching, lip-smacking, yawning... The only real treatment is awareness and exposure therapy.\n\nhttps://medium.com/illumination/your-yawning-makes-me-want-to-punch-you-f67eb1093ae8", "You SAW a professor act unprofessionally. You're ASSUMING the maturity level of the action he over-reacted to.", "You must be a first year psych student.", "Lmao what a bizarre response. Found the lazy professor", "I did not see that. I saw a professor acting very appropriately to somebody disrupting his lecture. \n\nHonestly I am baffled by this video being posted. Did that not happen in any of the lectures you attended in university? It happened at least twice during my university years and I probably forgot more. Its something so common. \n\nGood fifth of our 300+ lecture attendants were using laptops to play games or watch stuff instead of listening and we had somebody disrupting the lecture by loudly laughing or talking every other lecture.\n\nHow do you guys expect 200+ teenagers to behave themselves for 90 minutes while some older dudes talks about telegrams? What university were you attending that didnt have that?", "Seen the context given from this comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/imagine_paying_40000_a_semester_for_this/hhtq0z1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)\n\nWhich is good; he should of handled it different as it shows unprofessionalism. I do dislike students who purposely do this kind of stuff in spite of a teacher. Like they are doing their job to teach you and many others, it's not an easy job so cut them some slack, especially when they are actually pleasant prior to this incident.", "Is that what the little \"pwit pwit\" noise was?", "He just stayed there waiting for someone to come clean.", "I know I’ll be in the minority, but I don’t think it’s a bad lesson. Over blown? Sure. But college in theory should get you ready for real life. Sure maybe 12th semester history of what’s in my pocket doesn’t, but not yawning so loudly everyone can hear it in a meeting? I get he exaggerated the big deal but I don’t think this is that bad 🤷🏽‍♂️", "I don't understand how pointing out that many faculty positions offer essentially zero incentives to invest heavily in teaching--and that the sorts of activities that allow you to keep your job eat up time and effort that could be spend on instruction and mentoring--is \"bizarre.\" It's just a fact. It's one reason I strongly encourage undergraduates to consider small teaching centered colleges if they're able, because there the faculty are actually hired primarily as instructors and mentors, which is often not the case at an R1 university.", "I went to a D2 school with about 14000 students. I remember a time or two of students disrupting. But I have no memory of a professor blowing up like that.\n\nI specifically brought up my medical issue, if you can even call it that, of yawning loudly (and gulping instead of sipping, swallowing loudly) to show that your alternate view was no more valid than there being a completely reasonable explanation such as my own. With that being said. I have basically caused a similar situation and the professor, knowing exactly who it was because it was a small classroom setting, didn't get upset or take it as a personal affront or disrespect, but made light of the situation. She had no idea I'd had surgery on my esophagus. If she had been upset, she wouldn't have called me out in front of everyone. \n\nPoint is: she didn't jump to some wild assumption that I was disrespecting her lecture or her. It's wild that you think he's justified for having made that leap and then yelled at an entire lecture hall. He doesn't even know who did it, but yet you're ready to also go to his defense that it was immature kid and that he was justified and acted accordingly? Wowzers.\n\nHe could have handled that in an absolutely better situation if it were the worst case scenario you're assuming it was. You're literally quoting a man who states that someone is disrupting his class as he yells at a lecture hall full of young adults (you know, old enough to vote, smoke and go to war). At no point should a reasonable adult lash out at an entire lecture hall, call a girl who actually did speak up a liar, for the bad actions of one person. If it had been a problem leading up to that point, why not calmly call it out? Why did he go from 0 to 60 in mere seconds? Everyone was afraid to speak: this was purely a toxic moment in a lecture hall created entirely by the professor and no one else.\n\nBack to my original point: the professor acted unprofessionally (would you yell at a boardroom full of your bosses if one of them repeatedly yawned? You're stating he wasn't unprofessional, but would you yell at your work like that?). You see this. What you don't see is any kid acting immaturely. You're going only by the word of a man violently yelling and somehow thinking that man is the reasonable person you should be defending.", "I’m going to go against the grain here. I kind of get it—the frustration, not his over the top reaction. I think he could have had a smaller reaction, but I don’t think it was grossly out of line either.\n\nYou’re trying to give a lecture to a room of what is supposed to be adults. And to you it sounds like someone is behaving like a child, and giving off loud, fake-sounding yawns, as if to say, “your lecture is booooooring”. Even if it wasn’t meant to relay that, or they weren’t fake, an adult knows how to yawn quietly.\n\nThe size of the auditorium makes it seem less rude, but it shouldn’t. Imagine it in a smaller setting, like it was a meeting at work with 5 people, and one of your employees was doing that during the meeting.\n\nIf it wasn’t actually in the room, so be it. He was just reacting to what he thought to be true at the time.", "I had a professor that had a no yawning policy. He was really cool and his lectures we not boring but in previous years students didnt take his couse all that seriously so he had a bunch of weird policies.\n\nThe last slide of the first lecture had a hippo with it's mouth wide open. He spoke about it for a few minutes that yawning would not be tolerated. \n\nIt was a 400 level genetics course so I was kind of surprised.", "It’s bizarre because “the facts” you have stated are the exact problem. Hence it being “bizarre” that you use it to defend them and yourself", "There is a class on… Microsoft office formatting best practices? Talk about style over substance. You can find MBB decks that have relatively spotty formatting that are still valued because the content is great.", "Just rewatched the video. Separate comment thread. Lol \n\nYou honestly think a professor calling some student a loser, threatening to hold an entire lecture hall over the actions of one student, calling a girl a liar, all based on the assumption that its someone being immature is an appropriate reaction? Really?\n\nImagine if it had been me. My perfectly reasonable explanation of a loud yawn. Medically reasonable, in fact. I garantee I'm not speaking up in a class and further embarrassing myself in class while he's asking before he blows up. I would have gone to him after class and explained myself. But after he goes wild? Nah, I'm probably taking that to the dean's office. Not to get him in trouble, but to make them aware that this professor was unprofessional, jumped to the wrong conclusion and then took it out on an entire lecture hall.", "You can't control how loud you yawn? I think that's why he was bothered because it was loud frequent yawning", "I skipped your life story in the first two paragraph. The third paragraph contained no new information. You already said you think the guy acted unprofessionally. No need to repeat that 5 more times in different words.\n\nFinally in the last paragraph you used an interestingly flawed comparison that I want to explore. No, I wouldnt yell at my bosses for repeatedly loudly yawning during my presentation. It is still as immature, impolite and disrespectful as when the students did it, so why wouldnt I yell? Well, because somebody who is immature enough to disrupt my presentation by loudly yawning is immature enough to hold a grudge and cause me trouble if I did. Its not about professionalism, its about authority. And there you have it. The professor is in the role of authority and it is his job to stop such disruptions.\n\nWhy are you saying that I am not seeing any kid acting immaturely. I do see it. The kid that disrupted class and did not own up to it was in the video. As I already said, that is the sure sign of immaturity.\n\n~~I have nothing else to add. I made a~~ [~~case without making assumptions~~](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeeqca/comment/hhvbv2l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ~~two post earlier that you did not address. Reply to that first and foremost if you want to keep talking about this topic. However I think there is nothing left to be said from either of us.~~\n\nEdit: Started writing this before you submitted your reaction.", "It can be a side effect of generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not saying the college professor has it, but I've watched people grind their own gears and get themselves all upset, and they had anxiety. \n\n\nI've also seen people who were either very very entitled or spoiled brats do it as well.", "I can understand a teenager or young adult acting like this, But that man looks past 35 years old, If you don't have methods to control your emotions by then, I honestly see no hope for them. \n\nSpecial needs children have better control over their emotions and they experience them much more harshly and have less control over them. just extremely sad, this man has so much intellect but none of it is emotional, all he knows are facts.", "I ain’t a killer but don’t push me", "I do and you did not bring up anything that should change my mind.\n\nYou keep repeating what was said as if it would suddenly make an argument for you.", "The most surprising thing to me is how fancy the students are dressed. A lot of young men in ties and jackets. You don’t see that at State U, except maybe in the business school.", "Where have I said it doesn't create problems? I literally just told you that I encourage undergrads to consider smaller colleges for precisely that reason: there's often stronger focus on instruction.\n\nI'm just pointing out to you that, no, faculty at R1 univerisites often aren't there primarily to do undergraduate instruction. That's simply the reality of what the job is.", "Same could be said for the teacher.", "they weren't uncommon they were just 360p garbage compared to what we have now.", "If hearing a yawn fucks you up that bad you’re the one with the problem", "The whole “you don’t want to get on my bad side” line is Assholology 101", "Who said you need an expensive education to rationalize well?", "As someone who reads a lot, and is a bit obsessed with history and the past's technology, massive yawn/eyeroll for guys like this. \n\n\nI once had an old guy make a comment about tubes, and then say something about how I had probably never seen one before. It just so happens I had read a vintage textbook called \"Electronic for young people\" that was written just before transistors had taken over, and so I knew more about electron tubes than he did despite living through their golden age. \n\n\nWould be funny if one of those students knew Morse really well or something as he was making that comment.", "Dunno why people here are getting so worked up. Yawning loudly at a lecture is unacceptable behaviour and very bad manners.", "Stress kills, and is hard to get away from when self imposed.", "> I saw a professor acting very appropriately\n\nYou are unimaginable socially inept.", "I gotta side with the prof on this one. I freaking hate yawning. There is absolutely no reason for people to be so loud and obnoxious about it. In the context of a classroom, that is 100 times worse.", ">that is the sure sign of immaturity.\n\nYou are demonstrably bad at correctively identifying immature behavior, as is clearly evidenced by everything you have said.", "YAWWWWNNNN", "> I encourage undergrads to consider smaller colleges\n\nThis is not a solution. I should not have to transfer from my college to get professors that care about teaching. \n\nThe reality of the job is that you are working to serve people that pay your institution money. No student gives a fuck about what research you are doing, nor should they, nor should they have to have any compromise in their learning because of it, ever", "Clearly the majority of students disagreed.", "Imagine paying $40,000 a semester. That's stupid.\n\n\"You just spent 150 grand on an education you could have gotten for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.\"", "Wow. Okay. Since you're not getting the points I was making per paragragh, I'll spell them out for you.\n\nFirst paragraph? The personal story you skipped over? Answering a question YOU asked. \n\nSecond: you make an assumption that student was immature. I make an absolutely reasonable counterpoint and personal anecdote that there are counter-assumptions that could be made. \n\nThird: I reiterated the personal anecdote because I think its wild that you're fighting this entire fight on an assumption even though you have nothing to base it on except a man making a wild accusation with nothing to go on, not even identity, much less their character, when there could also possibly be a very reasonable explanation.\n\nFourth: so you're saying your first reaction to a disruption is to yell at folks? You don't know why that person was yawning.\n\nI'm on my phone so I can't go back and reference which paragraph, but my other point was this. He made the wrong emotional decision there. He made a possibly correct but also possibly incorrect judgement call. And reacted terribly based on that assumption. The proper call if he's right: \"would the person who keeps yawning in my class. Please see me after class.\" Or even a calmly worded warning. \nIn no way should his first reaction to something he says is a repeat action be an eruption, calling a student a loser, threatening an entire lecture hall and calling the female student a liar.\n\nTo argue your previous point: which would I believe is more likely to be believable? Well, another personal anecdote you can skip over: I worked in retail throughout college and a little afterwards. I never once had a person under the age of, say, about 35ish make a scene in the store. I had multiple temper tantrums of older folks. 40s, 50s, and one older that I can't guess an age of. Apparently, I'm not alone in those retail, customer service experiences. So yea, I tend to trust the maturity of young adults over an entire older generation these days. I think that's a reasonable deduction. \n\nAnd finally: answer this honestly: where in the video did you see a kid being immature? Be completely honest with yourself here.\n\nEdit: just shoot me the time stamp of where you see a kid being immature.", "I dont think it was necessary for you to reply to all of my posts at once. Take a deep breath, collect your thoughts and use your words. But not towards me, I dont wish to speak to you further.", "All of these morons commenting are literally the bag holders for much, much larger investors in the scheme but yeah \"cRyPtO iS tHe FuTuRe BrO\"", "Perfect, then in your next job interview, don't forget to include that you may very well lash out at all your coworkers for something when you don't know who did it and you ABSOLUTELY CERTAINLY CAN'T MAKE AN ASSUMPTION OF THEIR INTENTIONS BECUASE YOU LITERALLY STATED YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IT EVEN IS. As your first reaction. Let me know how that interview ends for you.", "You’re an awful person.", "Which is why I am not invested in BTC", "Bitcoin is not all of crypto. It is one of literally thousands, and it is one of the less useful ones. I've only invested in coins that serve to potentially solve a problem and have a legitimate use case. Bitcoin does not.", "Or the guy was yawning loud without thinking, and the prof could have tried a more pleasant “please stop” before going drill instructor scorched earth and making an ass out of himself.", "I said what I said.", "it cost 40k/semester to learn how to run a hotel?", "I don’t see the issue, I was raised by respect, obviously it’s his class his rules. But he trynna get students to snitch. Distasteful… jeez chad no one was getting raped bro", "Yeah! Get that library degree!", "This guy gets it", "Imagine thinking you pay $40,000 for the customer service? You've paid for an education (not every country would make you pay for that). The financial situation aside, you are adults working with more experienced adults so that you can learn. If you don't respect them as a colleague then don't expect them to work with you, because they don't work for you. One adult in this class hasn't figured out that they aren't a child yet.", "Or, you can choose to not go there?", "I WASN’T an early adopter of Bitcoin because I understood what it was. What I didn’t understand was how stupid humanity is.", "Which further proves my point, IULM is a meme private university (mind you, italian universities are 99% public, even the most prestigious ones, paying for your education is perceived as cheating your way up) where people who would be college dropouts pretty much anywhere else go to get bullshit degrees on their rich daddy's dime and then proceed to be either unemployed for the rest of their young adulthood or switch to a real education and career path unless nepotism lands them a quirky sounding job in media that 30 yrs ago would've been called secretary, clerk or jr assistant.", "LMFAO!", "You sound just as mature as the guy in the video.", "He is getting paid for teaching a large class. The large class is probably an introductory class. Most of the students want to pass and perhaps learn something required for a later class, and the dolt with the yawning is a tool. Rude. The teacher had to take the time to teach manners not \"computer science 101\" that everyone else is here for.", "A polite person would cover their mouth and stifle the sound of the \"yawn\" This one is like shouting \"bullshit\" while pretending it is a cough.", "You know the actual professional world doesn't give too much of a shit about your excuses and projections. You are not permitted to behave in a disruptive manner because you feel entitled (medically or otherwise) to do so. \n\nThe professor should have just gotten rid of the student on the first go and a lot of workplaces wont tolerate this kind of primadonna attitude you seem to have. Being a professional (despite how you describe) isn't a standard for one person to follow, it starts as an expectation that the participants in the lecture should act appropriately.\n\nReading your posts I really don't get a feeling that you have a strong grasp on this idea of professionalism that you like to invoke. I mean you're already just typing in all caps, try using that in a professional email and see how far you get. I see someone roleplaying based on their perception of professional environments. \n\nThe unfortunate reality is that you can get chewed out in professional environments if your behavior detracts from what needs to get done. Having this \"but he's an adult/position of authority\" approach to viewing the situation is inherently juvenile. The real world expects everyone to behave appropriately and doesn't give free passes like you get in school.\n\nUnrelated but I'd love to hear what medical excuse you think you have for yawning loudly in this situation.", "It is hard talking with you, since I have to sift through all your personal \"anecdotes\". I didnt subscribe to your blog. I am trying to have a discussion.\n\nI appreciate that you tried to spell out your points to me though I still dont see them clearly. You keep repeating that yelling at somebody disturbing is unprofessional and I dont agree with that. I wont start agreeing with it no matter how many times you say it. If your profession is of an authority it is your job to remove disruptions. Teenagers need to be yelled at from time to time. And I havent heard any yelling either. The professor was stern and got serious, but he remained calm. This was a more of a reprimand than a yell. \n\n>In no way should his first reaction to something he says is a repeat action be an eruption, calling a student a loser, threatening an entire lecture hall and calling the female student a liar.\n\nI also dont like how you are painting the scene. He did not call anyone a loser, he did not \"threaten\" an entire lecture hall and he definitively didnt call anyone a liar. Now you are not lying, I know that, but you are oversimplifying the situation to make it sound worse than it is. He called out the person responsible to ask himself why he is such a loser. He reminded the whole hall to not mistake informal for impolite and informed them that if they dont want to continue in this informal friendly manner, he can get unpleasant. Lastly he said that he is not sure if he believes what the girl said. What you are doing is akin to me saying that I manage transactions for multibillion dollar corporation while working the cash register at McDonalds.\n\nI skipped the another anecdote after that. Thank you for being upfront about it and saving our time.\n\nFinally to be completely honest I dont know where exactly the student that disrupted class and did not own up to his action is sitting. I know that he is in there and I know what he did was immature.", "right, which, like we're all kindof saying, would be cool if it were 7th grade", ">I should not have to transfer from my college\n\nNobody suggested transferring. Just know what sorts of experiences different types of colleges and universities offer when you choose where to apply.\n\n>The reality of the job is that you are working to serve people that pay your institution money.\n\nNo, the reality of any job is that you do what your employer expects you to do.\n\nAnd guess what? Many faculty salaries aren't paid out of tuition revenue.\n\n >No student gives a fuck about what research you are doing\n\nThe people who make the hiring decisions, pay the salaries, and decide who keeps their tenure-track job at a research university do care about research. A great deal. That's literally what makes it a research university.\n\nIf you, as a student, don't care at all about research, then it's best to explore options at teaching-centered universities and liberal arts colleges.", "It's YOUR fault I'm emotionally vulnerable to yawning. Don't PUSH me there!", "This post is entirely bullshit and gross over generalization. No decent psychologist or behavior analyst would make the ridiculous claims you are making based off 1 short emotional outburst in a person’s life.", "You think a yawn is immature?", "That was very well said. It does feel cold, but that is part of it. You either follow the expectations or you wont last. Granted we should acknowledge that the academic setting is different from the real world. \n\nIt would be great if we could say the professor should have behaved better. But would it be better if he did? Education is not just about learning knowledge, but also an important part where they prepare you for the workplace. In that regard, shutting this behavior down harshly is the appropriate way to prepare the students for employment.", "Dang- that’s perfect. Hospitality at a hotel chain is a great degree for nepotism now that I think about it. \n\nIf I’ve learned anything from Olive Garden commercials, Italians have hospitality baked in. Other, lesser folks might need some instruction in business management and specifics related to that industry. I’m sure a lot of folks just work their way up.", "Point to a single post that is that extreme. Ive been there and generally the comments are reasonable", "As a human being, with a frontal cortex, you have this thing called 'inhibition' which you can apply to not be socially awkward and a massive dickwad.", "No, I do not. I yawn silently and cover my mouth. Its bodily function. Loudly yawning and not taking responsibility is immature. \n\nI think I am done talking to you. There is no reason for you to have asked such a ridiculous question after all that time I spend explaining my view. Lets not waste each other's time anymore.\n\nHave a pleasant day.", "The first one is not something I said about myself, it was about my assumption. I didnt say the second one. Are you well?", "I'm unreasonable? You just stated a loud yawn is immature.", "Maybe you missed the part where he said he was doing it multiple times. And if you 'yawn loud without thinking', maybe he did need someone to teach him how to behave as a normal human being in society, like his parents didn't do, I guess.", "Friend, you should look up this thing called \"Social etiquette\". It's when you don't vocally express how bored you are by someone who is trying to do their best to deliver a boring lecture about kilobytes. And you don't distract your classmates who are trying to focus on said boring lecture.", "True chad", "Yeah grow the fuck and stop acting like someone yawning is personal attack against you.", "as it should be, not every profession out there should require a college degree (and if you are going to be a manager just go into business management).\n\nTurning everything into a degree is just a ploy for private universities to squeeze more money from a market mostly comprised of gullible people and I'll let you guess the country where such a practice originated (coincidentally the same deranged country where education is a business and that has a tendency to prey on the weak).", "I stated very clearly that my loud yawns and that of this video aren't comparable.\n\nReally? workplaces have no tolerance for loud yawns. Oof. Where do you work?\n\nIve been in the workforce for twenty plus years. I've been commended for my work ethics. Ive won multiple awards from multiple jobs. I always re-evaluate my actions and especially if it's something I feel I should be embarrassed about. That professor should absolutely be embarrassed for his behavior and reassess his behavior. \n\nYou can get chewed out in a workplace. Sure. Doesn't make it right. Or a healthy environment. \n\nAnd I had a surgery to fix a hernia in my esophagus. Except, in tieing something together in there (I'm no doctor), it has affected how I eat, drink and even at times, breathe.", "It’s funny you’re getting downvoted. People kind of forget that mp3s haven’t even overtaken CDs as the biggest selling music medium yet. Livestreams we’re not common in college lectures in 2010. I was in college at that time. If you asked a class to be live-streamed, you’d be met with a confused look and the response would be “why?”.", "In no way did I say or imply that workplaces have no tolerance for loud yawns. The context of what was said was more to the point that workplaces don't tolerate this kind of disruption (particularly of a large group event). The workplace analogy would be more like being disruptive at a workplace conference. Most people I know would find some way to minimize any potential disruption their medical issues might present if they absolutely had to attend such a conference. Incidentally it's generally pretty easy to tell your coworkers/boss that you cannot attend because you feel you will cause a disruption.\n\nBut even then... wouldn't it be piss easy to cover your mouth and stifle the volume of the yawn? I mean how is the sound not going to be suppressed if you actively cover it. You dampen the vibrations caused by your vocal chords = much less sound = much less disruption. \n\nI think you should stare at your awards some more and re-evaluate your take on this because I'm still getting primadonna vibes. I realize it's easy to project your situation onto this student but even in your case I would think you could manage to attend a conference without yawning loud enough to cause a disruption.", "Your first paragraph is responding to a situation in a video where a student yawnd. Were you not aware?\n\nWe're talking about yawning. \n\nYawning.\n\nYawning.\n\nYawning.\n\nGet it? Youve climbed up on your high horse about the above points.", "My kindergarten teacher lost her shit because somebody wouldn't stop making \"that disrespectful noise!!!!\"\n\nIt was a kid's windbreaker pants. They swooshed when he walked. Everyone was too terrified to tell her it was just pants.\n\nI'm 32 and this is seared in my memory.", "Yawned loudly in a disruptive fashion.\n\nDisruptive behavior is pretty generally not tolerated in the workplace. Although now that I think about it, I've never been given an award for not yawning loudly so maybe you are onto something here. :)", "Yea? You heard that disruptive yawn?\n\nEdit: link me to time stamp", "Imagine paying $40,000 a semester, full stop. \n\nMy entire undergrad was like $25,000 from one of the top schools in Canada, and my JD will be like $45,000 total.", "It sounds like this happened more than once and that it wasn't a bodily function. [This](https://youtu.be/Zc_qwpbZXqE) is not a bodily function. The person that made this video conveniently left out the yawn/yawns that could have been a disruption to the class. You being on the spectrum does not negate anyone else's classroom needs, including a person with difficulty hearing. I say that as an advocate for people with disabilities, different abilities, and neurodiverse individuals.", "One of my favorite quotes on education is from Sir Walter Scott: \"All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.\"", "More like Borenell university.", "Yea, it is sad. From what other people have been saying, he was actually a really nice guy.", "Gary Busey", "Yeah, as many issues as that guy has, he was correct about the line between informal and impolite. Many people struggle to find that line.", "Imagine being a dipshit and disrespecting the professor and everyone else there who paid 40k$ for a semester with a loud yawn. Sure, professor had a short temper this time around, but I'd bet you that was a repeat offense and even then you can chose not to yawn so whole auditorium can hear you.", "Yes, it just boggles my mind, I am a hands on type of person so just being talked at is completely alien to me.", "Get a load of this guy. Fucking let it go man, geez.", "The presenter is very much entitled to be annoyed at persistent loud yawns.\n\nI wonder if you'd take the same stance if a waitress got annoyed at disrespectful (not harassment) behavior from a customer. After all, they're her customer and she should just take it, right? If it bothered the other customers, they could complain.", "I once had a professor get pissed off that someone kept making loud noises in class. It was his microphone rubbing against his shirt.", "It’s been 10 years can we get a follow up on the person who yawned, burped, and the professor.", "Because a person managing 200+ people in a classroom means setting classroom expectations for all to follow. I expect he also had a policy that everyone needs to be seated by the time class starts. 200+ people coming and going as they please would be chaos. If someone is deliberately being disruptive, the student should be removed. The reason I think this was an intentional, fake, loud, repeated, attention-seeking behavior, is within the professor's words and that students actually in the class defended the teacher. If this were a teacher raging over nothing (which happens) the students wouldn't defend the behavior. \n\nStudents that are mad at the student will be more likely to rat him/her out, maybe not right then, but it happens. Students that are mad that they didn't get the full content of a class they paid $2000-$3000 for will also be more likely to rat him/her out. Win-win.\n\nI agree with you that sometimes teachers are inappropriately aggressive and intimidating. I also agree that if this were an involuntary function, it would be an inappropriate. There is reason to believe it was an appropriate teacher response to an inappropriate student behavior in a video edited and titled to try to get the opposite response from those who see it.", "So how would you feel if anyone is ascribing to you being a faulty man, having a weak ego, being toxic, having underlying issues in need of psycholigcal help after just having seen some seconds of video footage?\n\nApparently you have never lost control over yourself or will never do so, so surely you'll be fine with that. Since you don't care being a saint 99.9% percent of the time, you are a saint 100% of the time.\n\nI for myself will call everyone a liar to their face if they tell me they always have perfect composure and swear that will never change.", "Had a professor require we used character and paragraph styles in Word- what a game changer that was for everyone. We griped about it in the beginning and then were like “Word can do that?!?!?” After we figured it out. This was pre-YouTube or decent online tutorials so if you didn’t learn it in a class the only way you’d learn how to do something was by accident.", "People in his class remember him for life. People in this thread won't remember in 20 seconds.", "What college costs $40k per semester?", "Not to be confused with nonchalantis.", "Straw man...but you still made me laugh.", "I'd snitch, idgaf", "First of all you shouldn't say \"dumber students.\" I think you mean students who do not excel at science or engineering. Secondly I have seen my organic chemistry teacher in college, who has PHD in organic chemistry, flip out more than this. Work can be stressful and everyone has a breaking point. Could he have handled it better? Perhaps, but I don't think he deserves to be publicly embarrassed.", "In terms of alternatives, there are millions. I'm not sure the value of your comment listing one.", "It's not just his behavior. It's the environment he is in. He is under complete control, in charge and safe, and is acting this way. So how's he going to act when something that's actually bad* happens? It's very clear that this is an unreasonable outburst coming from someone who has only had their ego threatened, and not their safety or wellbeing.\n\nAll those kids sitting in uncomfortable silence forced to listen to his every word sure are threatening. It's the situation he is in that makes him look very much like \"a faulty man, having a weak ego, being toxic, having underlying issues in need of psycholigcal help\"\n\nLast big outburst I remember having was yelling at a guy suffering from a drug problem who had chased me down on the street and was beating me with a smiley. I think that was a warranted situation under which to lose my cool.\n\nThe situation he is acting within defines him just as much as his actions.", "In my experience as one of those types of people it comes from lack of self consciousness and confidence. \n\nI also find people like this(me) tend to not speak up until things have bothered them for far to long and we don’t communicate properly, then we start assuming people should know what we want based on our non verbal que. when they don’t we take it as a direct confrontation. This is how I’ve seen it happen within me. \n\nIn my case I wasn’t taught to communicate. My dad and mom would use angry outburst to control my bad behavior instead of talking to me. \n\nI’ve been working hard on controlling these things but brain rewiring takes a lot of time. \n\nEver since I finally realized I was the problem I’ve had a lot of guilt. You never know your the bad guy unless your open to actually judge your life", "I didn't find out audibly yawning was rude until I was a senior in high school taking a concurrent credit college course. I audibly yawned and the professor just stopped, looked at me, and said \"well that was fucking rude.\" And went on. I was shook. Stifling a yawn was something that never crossed my mind. Audibly yawning was just something everyone did to me before that", "Psychological health professionals take hours or weeks to find out such things about people.\n\nYou and the guy I answered to can do it with a 2 minute clip. Amazing.\n\nI don't feel smart enough to keep this conversation up. Have a nice time in you black and white world being totally in control of yourself.", "I had my volume off for the first half of that so I thought he overreacted, but when I went back to listen to the beginning, I could see why he got mad.", ">Have a nice time in you balck and white world being totally in control of yourself.\n\nHave a nice time living in a world where anyone around you can snap unreasonably at any time, but at least you'll be fine with their poor behavior.", "Nearly all my lectures were recorded. I graduated in 2011. So maybe not live-streamed, but certainly common for it to be recorded at the time.", "Hold up, how is anyone hating on the professor here? This isn’t junior high school, this is a challenging school with I’m imagining high standards, at a high cost. Imagine paying 40K a semester to have some dickwad interrupt your classes. Professor was completely in the right", "Exactly what a child would say", "Yeah, the professor doesn't give a shit about much, since he is dead thankfully. Hope the dude was in pain on his way out too.", "Professor Kevin", "what a tool", "Disagree and this post reeks of r/iamveryjealous because you obviously didn't get in early on BTC and are salty af about it.", "Looks like the Dean and he apologized for this. Went viral 10 years ago. Can't imagine it would have turned out this way without the bad press.", "What a fuckin loser.", "> ha I can’t believe I’m getting downvoted for directly answering the question someone asked me.\n\nKeep in mind most of the folks here haven't been a professional in anything, ever. Thus they think your \"differentiator\" is a big fucking joke because they don't know any better.", "People in higher education can have the most fragile egos. I was a former student at a top school....it's so cringy how smart yet sensitive people can be.", "A normal yawn, no. Multiple loud yawns made just to troll the professor about \"this class is boring\", yes.", "There are a few major companies that accept bitcoin as payment. For example, Microsoft and AT&T.", "I see you were not only there in the auditorium when it happened but you could also read his mind? Incredible.", "They did:\n\nhttps://www.thecornellreview.org/dean-johnson-talbert-offer-apologies/", "Apt name", "Sounds like you're seeking to be the best version of yourself. That's really the best thing anyone can do, not just for themselves but for the world. \n\nYou might find videos of Sadhguru helpful on YouTube. They definitely helped me gain more clarity on pretty much everything.", "The professor addresses the situation and said the same guy had kept yawning stupidly loud multiple times before and I am confident it wasn't just a silent normal yawn each time. \n \nIt is actually really easy to yawn without making any sounds.", "I will check him out now.\n\nOddly enough angry comedian BILL BURR’s podcast has helped me a lot with deciding to look more into verbal abuse, and my own actions, because he admitted some of his own issues. I’ve always related to his anger, and that’s what really made me look at myself more. \n\nBecause he knows he’s angry and has problems but he’s also going to therapy on occasion and is constantly talking about how he acted like a fool because he gets pissed off, or let’s something small bother him. \n\nSome people get mad at something your doing so they tell you “hey man when you do that it hurts my feelings” or whatever… see I don’t even know how to do it.\n\nSome other people(like me) get mad at something they act kinda mad about it, but don’t say anything the relationship gets strained until the other person ask what’s wrong and they snap and the other person doesn’t even realize how angry they are.\n\nThat’s why when people say “I’m a nice guy but don’t push me” my first thought is they’re not a good communicator.", "You’re acting like this happened out of nowhere. Teachers have been under a lot of pressure lately. This is likely the straw that broke the camel’s back. Why wouldn’t be take it personally? Loudly yawning like that is supposed to be an insult. And he doesn’t even own up to it. It’s not impossible to yawn quietly. If you’re yawning that loudly, so that everyone in an auditorium can hear you, you’re being a rude asshole.", "No, you don’t yawn that loudly repeatedly in a class about decorum without doing it on purpose. It’s not hard to not yawn loudly. He didn’t have a problem with yawns, just doing it obnoxiously loud.", "Imagine paying $40k a semester to yawn obnoxiously and piss off your professors. You can clearly tell who’s a high schooler in this thread.", "Bro when did this happen? 1999?", "So, like, let’s just, like, type…like we’re, there?? Prof should think about updating his lectures if he’s getting this response so often, and is offended by it…", "How do you post on Reddit with such tiny fins?", "Not the right sub for this but ESH. The yawning was excessive, and if it really was being done repeatedly, it needed to be called out. I don’t think that this is the right way to go about that, though, either; it would have been better just to ask whether it was intentional or the student just didn’t know any better and didn’t realize it was disruptive. Then if it happened again, it might be more understandable to go off like this. But this seems to be the first time the issue is brought up, and the instructor goes straight from 0–100.", "I am guessing you meant teaching side.", "Inverse McLuhan. The message is the medium.", "> So long as I don’t disturb the lecture \n\nThe yawning *was* disturbing the lecture.", "If someone wants to anonymously tell me who it is.. please do.", "Oh shut up. Here, I’ve got a couple of other things for you to imagine.\n\nImagine having the academic credentials to get into a school like Cornell but being so fucking entitled and tone deaf that you can’t stifle the sound of a yawn during a lecture. Be fucking courteous. This professor has gone through a lot more than an SAT prep course to get where he is, you little shit. If you’re so goddamn tired or bored, go the fuck home. There are people in the lecture hall who are actually grateful to be there, I assure you.\n\nAlso, imagine only taking 2 minutes to call the little turd out and make an example of him, hopefully to scare him straight. Two fucking minutes. You’re not paying $40,000 for two fucking minutes, OP.\n\nSorry, I taught at both the college and high school levels and I think yawning at the top of your fucking lungs like this in the middle of a class is rude, disrespectful, and shitty, and I have real issues with people who don’t see that as obvious.", "I work in Academia. This guys Dean needs to have a serious talk with this self righteous douche nozzle. Get over yourself and fucking teach, ya know your job.", "Did he die from some stress related heart disease… because that wouldn’t be the slightest bit ironic.", "Yeah I chuckled at the “small group on the Internet” comment as well …", "This is also very very true.", "“The evil that men do lives after them;\nThe good is oft interred with their bones.”", "I was yawning watching this bore when he threw his fit about someone yawning", "Really? My two seconds of yawning was overpowering the sound of his voice? And even if it were, don't you think letting it slide would have been less of a disturbance than halting the lecture and whining about it?", "Yes, thats why I corrected you. Its good practice to not mess up in the first sentence when you are trying to put somebody down. Especially in a post two sentences long. Diligence is very important.", "I’d bet more people saw it on the internet than ever were taught by him", "Ultimately, the key to having a responsible life is to just work on reducing the response time. \n\nRight now you're responding consciously to actions you've taken in the past, realising how you should have behaved differently. That time between reacting compulsively, and 'noticing' you reacted- that is the response time.\n\nOnce you are consciously able to maintain a near instantaneous response time, you'll always do what is needed.\n\nThat's living a truly conscious life. Though easier said than done, especially when we live in such a reactionary society.\n\nYou're definitely at a point where you're seeking clarity of perception. So long as you remain hungry for knowing, and look at things without making prior conclusions, you'll be receptive to those who can help guide you, so that you get to that destination as quickly as possible.\n\nLike I mentioned Sadhguru is that guide. He's not religious btw- he has that 'look', but absolutely none of the non-sense.", "You must be young then.\n\nI hope you have a great day, without the underlying insult though. Sincerely.", "I got about 1/3rd of the way through your comment and yawned.\n\nIs your ego hurt now, do you need another 2 minutes to monologue", "Both you and the professor are assuming intent that you have no evidence for.", "If he or she hadn’t been given at least one rational correction, then this response was completely over the top and unprofessional, which is why it’s a well circulated video.", "yawning while someone is lecturing is rude, is this now not common knowledge?", "Yah, reddit always will side with the passive aggressive who is animatedly yawning in the 40k a year lecture hall. Oh wow look at the lecturer take a moment to address what he considers to be rude behavior with loud voice. Lol how cringe. Cringe pill..\n\nHonestly, any feelings are cringe now.", "For what I'm paying for college, the presenter can fuck himself with the whole \"I'ma put the class on hold until someone exposes them!\" shit.", "1. people lie\n\n2. In my personal experience, even horrible professors are enabled by fan worship by absolutely clueless students. ratemyprofessor.com is all-but worthless.\n\n3. you really don't know someone until you've seen them in conflict. All I really need to know about this guy to evaluate his \"I can be as pleasant as I am an asshole\" is whether he was capable of waking me up with a top tier blowjob and a free car. And imagine if you yawned during that blowjob.", "Learn the difference between 'disturbing' and 'stopping.' You didn't stop the lecture, he did. But you disturbed it by repeatedly (according to what the instructor said) yawning loudly enough to be picked up by the instructor's microphone. He'd already let it slide, multiple times.\n\nAs far as the instructor's reaction, I've addressed that elsewhere and said that he should have just asked you if you were being intentionally disruptive or if you didn't know how disturbing — distracting, disruptive — your yawns were.", "That's how you get no friends.", "Well I'm not trying to be friends with with some dude wasting everyones time making noises", "Maybe he just had to yawn. Either way, mind your own business.", "Imagine having 40k sitting around to pay for this. A semester.", "I'm not fine with his behavior, I never said that.\n\nHe behaved like an asshole.\n\nBut I'm willing to grant him the decency that everyone makes mistakes and that no one should have his entire personaltiy judged by one moment of his life. And certainly not analyzed by pseudo-experts on social media.\n\nMy point is not that I'm okay with his behavior. My point is that we don't know enough to attest him a psychological profile.\n\nExcept you of course. I'd rather deal with people like that professor than with someone as compassionless as you. At least the guy in the video I can confront and I'm pretty sure I'm not getting my qualities as a person questioned.", "How much did you pay for your education that taught you people seeking attention with negative behavior should be addressed with group punishment, holding a large group of people hostage to put the spotlight on that person, i.e. rewarding negative attention seeking behavior?\n\nWith that line of thinking, you're an abusive idiot who isn't fit to own pets, much less have authority over others.", "I mean it's just as possible to do a quiet yawn. You moan during a yawn to make it audible, unless you have a strange condition. It's easy not to do this. Show some respect for the prof and for your fellow students. They've paid or will be paying hard earned money for years for this one class - this isn't highschool.", "It's disrespectful to the whole class. They're there to learn, not laugh at some class clown. Imagine going into debt to learn at college or university for some moron to disrupt your class daily. Fuck that.", "are you trying to make fun of me using commas and the word \"like\"? read it again. try just replacing the word \"like\" with the word \"as\".", "speech-to-text", "You are saying you can't cover your mouth and not moan out loud among other people. That's not normal as you think it is and proof of that is the downvotes you are getting.", "in uniform!!", "Well, they went to Cornell. It's basically a requirement for people that go there in my experience.", "Not just soft sciences, medicine is one the worst offenders of the replication crisis.", "It doesn't matter if it's normal I don't have to go along with what other people think is normal. I also don't care about downvotes. The amount of intelligent people on this website is scarce, mostly sheep who will downvote to follow the trend.", "Shhhh goldfish don’t talk", "Delete everything before the last comma, and you're still saying the same thing. \n Jokes belong in all classrooms, not just 7th grade ones. No one should have to laugh at a professor's bad jokes, \"back in my day we had a telegram\" deserves a triumphant yawn imo. I would've dropped this guys class instead of sitting through it, maybe yawner didn't have that option.", "I doubt you are one of those people that are smarter than the average buddy. You don't strike me as one of those people that got to /lit/ or hackernews so you are the sheep.\n\nOkay well it's not and don't be surprised if people in real life think you are rude and a pig?", "No one in real life thinks I'm rude or a pig, thanks. You're really showing your intelligence here while you project your pathetic moral superiority onto me. Idk what world you live in but it's not rude to yawn. Anyone who thinks so seems to be the idiots who act like they have some moral high-ground. You don't happen to be a Christian do you?😂😂", "This arrogant, miserable prick died at the ripe old age of 55 in 2015, and if you look up his name, about 50% of what you see are links to and mentions of this video. He was a lecturer of information technology at Cornell's School of Hotel Administration. Some legacy.", "It seems to me that it's all about tone. If some students seems to be repeatedly, performatively yawning during lecture, he could say it like this: \n\n\n\"Everyone, I get that college isn't just about this class or any class, and I get that sometimes you stay up late studying or partying or what have you. Also, I fully admit that this may be coming from my own fragile ego, but I really want to give you all my best energy, so I would appreciate it if you could try to tone down the loud yawns for me, for your classmates, and for yourselves. You pay a ton of money to get a great education here. Let's help one another out and bring our best to class.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nSorry for the distraction, and let's get back to our discussion.\"", "This professor who died taught Hotel Administration while the dude in the lecture jumped from Telegram to Kilobyte. Is it the same person? Why do Hotel Admins need to know about Kilobytes?", "Probably a \"challenge\"", "everything was uncommon back in 2010, but this quality was not even the best livestream quality of 2010.", "2010" ]	587	videos	Imagine paying $40000 a semester for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vabwGiTWRVo	/r/videos/comments/qeeyow/rick_rubin_the_invisibility_of_hip_hops_greatest/	[ "Jay-Z have him light.", "This guy is way more than Hip Hop. \nHe’s touched almost every genre of music.", "Genuinely. He's a legitimate music fan, and you can tell. He talks of different genres with equal passion.", "Invisibility? He's probably the most famous producer alive.", "Backer of smoky mountain wrestling", "Ever seen the video for [Jay Z “99 Problems”](https://youtu.be/31GjRnXfUjo)? That’s him with the fur coat. \n\nLast week a documentary called [“Somewhere You Feel Free”](https://youtu.be/0w4-URKRl34) was released. In it he talks about his involvement in the making of Tom Petty’s masterpiece album, “Wildflowers”. \n\nAlso Hulu has this recent Paul McCartney special: [“McCartney 3,2,1”](https://youtu.be/KAkqy5QntGQ). The whole thing is just Paul and Rick discussing Paul’s work while they listen to the original multi-track recordings. I highly recommend it.", "Watch the video. They don’t mean he’s unknown.", "This was well done. Very interesting", "He clearly hasn't watched the whole video", "Well that was actually pretty interesting.", "My initial reaction too.\n\nCan't think of a more visible, and well known, producer.", "Part of the reason he’s invisible is because he doesn’t include a tag in his music, ie ‘we da best music!’ or ‘Mike Will made it’.", "[Here's another story about Rick Rubin from the Black Crowes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7z0cvPRG1c&t=685s)", "Can’t stand this guy’s narration voice", "Reminded me of the AI in Team America https://youtu.be/t6WQfTHg1o4", "\"Reduced by Rick Rubin\" -> more like compressed by... :)", "He does everything", "Funny thing about him as a producer is he’s not really known for having brilliant ideas, or a lot of technical ability, like George Martin or Jeff Lynne. His reputation is to just stay out of the artist’s way and allow them to do their thing. He also likes to record things dry, with no reverb. This approach was used to tremendous effect on Johnny Cash’s American Recordings. Supposedly, when he’s working he just lays on the couch in the control room and listens to the music with his eyes closed the whole time.", "Funny thing about him as a producer is he’s not really known for having brilliant ideas, or a lot of technical ability, like George Martin or Jeff Lynne. His reputation is to just stay out of the artist’s way and allow them to do their thing. He also likes records things dry, with no reverb. This approach was used to tremendous effect on Johnny Cash’s American Recordings. Supposedly, when he’s working he just lays on the couch in the control room and listens to the music with his eyes closed the whole time.", "At least he wasn't allowed to ruin Paul's Boutique.", "I've been trying to understand how he has managed to produce the kind of albums that he has and you really nailed it with the lying with his eyes closed. He has his usual spot in the studio and he can be seen lying there in a couple photos. \n\nThat has also caused few musicians to lash out publicly and say that he did absolutely nothing. But he subtly does a couple crucial things. \n\n1. Location: Shangri-La (the studio) is designed to be a space to let creative processes flow. It's more than a studio, it's a place to live. It's a place shielded from the world and its criticism. \n\nThere's [this story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChGYbJUKj1w) about Serj from System of a Down was void of any ideas and Rick took him to the library and gave him a talking to then left him alone and made him look around. The first book Serj picked inspired him to write Chop Suey. \n\nAn example of how important the location is. It's rare that studios have a library.\n\n2. Persona: He's incredibly charismatic and inspiring (to a scary degree in my opinion). \n\nHe's able to brilliantly pick apart all the facades that every person has but something famous people have to an extreme degree. He does it by relating to them on their level and their shared interests in music and life. \n\nRick Rubin has been known to take a person aside and try to make them think back to a crucial part of their life that really formed them. He asks them to think about that thing they wish they could've said. Then he strips away external expectations and makes them create that one album that they've always wanted to create but were too confounded and unsuccessful to pull off. If the process is respected the end result is bound to be something pure and creative if not great. \n\nNotice how none of those things were music related. Rick Rubin has a team of producers and engineers to take care of that. His role is more that of a guru who has to guide the creative process and being as skilled at it as Rick is is incredibly valuable. \n\nI would love to hear if people have thoughts/opinions on the matter since it's something I've tried to research but the information is very limited.", "If you watch the video, they are referring to his ghost like presence on the music that he produces.", "I find his entire career fascinating, as well. Tom Petty’s “Wildflowers” is probably my favorite album of all time. But then just off the top of my head, he’s done things like “Bloodsugarsexmagick”, and “Toxicity”. These albums have been the soundtrack to my life. So I’m just as intrigued by what makes him special as you are. \n \nI think your points about his choice of location, and his charisma are spot on. I’ve always found the way he speaks to be hypnotizing. \n\nI think a lot of what he does seems to be achieved through passive behavior. I don’t think he really makes bold suggestions to the artists he works with. Rather he seems to just ask the right questions of them, and allows them to reach their own conclusions about whatever it is they are working on. \n\nI recently watched the documentary “Shut Up And Sing”, about The Dixie Chicks’ 2006 album that he produced. And I was surprised to see Chad Smith playing drums in the studio. I then went and checked the album credits on Wikipedia and saw a bunch of other names I recognized from Rick’s past-names like Benmont Tench and Mike Campbell from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. So I went further down the rabbit hole and checked the album credits on some of Rick’s other projects. It turns out John Frusciante, as well as several of the Heartbreakers played on several of Johnny Cash’s American Recordings. I also saw a bunch of legendary names like Smokey Hormel,Joey Waronker and David Ferguson.\n\nBasically, this guy has all of the best studio musicians in the world’s phone numbers already in his phone. That probably really comes in handy if you’re a producer and you’re working on a new project.", "Thank you so much for writing that. \n\nI really like your observations and how you expressed them in your third paragraph. His behavior is indeed quite passive in the process but all while asking the right questions. Such an apt description. \n\nI always saw each project he did as isolated so I am blown away by your research and how he's able to pull-in big names as session musicians. \n\nFor someone who loves music and music history so dearly it must be amazing for him to be such a big part of it.", "No, thank you! Talking about music is my favorite thing to do, next to actually listening to it! I’d never even heard of Shangri-La Studios before, I’ve got some reading to do.", "BBC Radio did a one hour long interview and [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XetG_YqjTw) shows around in the studio briefly including the famous Dylan tour bus.\n\n[Here he talks with the Beastie Boys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyp3Gqwnjx8) and the reminisce about how they all got started. It's really great fun to listen to." ]	26	videos	Rick Rubin: The Invisibility of Hip Hop's Greatest Producer
https://youtu.be/XR4maEf-eCY	/r/videos/comments/qefvau/danny_macaskill_rides_a_bike_on_a_wind_turbine/	[ "Did you watch the video?", "jump to 3:30 and skip the rest", "To raise awareness for action on climate change and the role of renewable energy in reducing emissions. I thought was pretty obvious, given all the text on the video explaining it", "Raising awareness is a large part of making change. The more people who see and hear about climate change being a global issue, the better. They might then decide to vote for someone different based on their policies. Without widespread awareness of the problem, change will never occur.\n\nIt also helps when the message comes from people who have a large following like Danny. Some people are more likely to pay attention if the message comes from someone they look up to and follow, rather than from a politician, for example.", "[ Jump to 03:30 @ Taking To The Skies For Climate Change \| Climate Games](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4maEf-eCY&t=0h3m30s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Danny MacAskill, Video Popularity: 96.67%, Video Length: [04:36])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4maEf-eCY&t=0h3m25s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Yeah because if Leo stopped flying you'd suddenly start caring about the climate crisis.", "I don't know... I quite enjoyed [1:45](https://youtu.be/XR4maEf-eCY?t=105) as well.", "Red Bull stunts will stop when one of these super talented people dies.", "how do you pronounce his last name? Mc Ass Kill?", "I was hoping for some tricks to be honest...", "He is connected to a wire so this is perfectly safe", "Ma-cask-ill", "It's the same here. I've conserved energy and kept a low footprint my whole life. One hoggish denier can wipe out everything you and I and 3 other people save. It doesn't me we stop and it doesn't mean it doesn't matter. In your lifetime, people like have shown it's possible to live and thrive a certain way. That made it so other people and ideas and companies and policies and inventions all had a hope, a market, a supporter. \n\nYou're why we're now approaching somewhere around 25% renewable electricity production instead of 2%. You're why conservation and renewables had an explosion of success this past decade. They didn't just magically happen this decade, they were nurtured over many years because people like you (and me) believed in the promise.", "lmao climate games\n\nthe retardation knows no bounds" ]	14	videos	Danny MacAskill rides a bike on a wind turbine blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTY2Pi1uKA&ab_channel=yovo68	/r/videos/comments/qeg5rt/roof_ripper_at_the_11foot88_bridge/	[ "We got another!", "Damn, 11' 9\", shouldn't have aired up those tires this morning.", "ITT: \n\n* people asking why they can't raise the bridge (they already did, it's a train crossing and every fraction of an inch raise means raising rail lines for miles in each direction) \n* people asking why they can't lower the road (they did, as much as possible, but there's a hundred year old billion dollar infrastructure below that can't a small town can't realistically move \n* asking why it's 11'8 + 8 (because a major project to gain the extra 8 inches of clearance was done in recent years)\n* saying it should be closed (it only affects around 0% of drivers, the ones who don't pay attention anyway, and the only other rail underpass is way across town) \n* what about that video that's posted here twice a week of a warning sign projected on a water curtain (the short approach means it wouldn't give enough stopping time and besides the ice in the winter half of the year would kill people)\n* install a warning rail (that's basically what the bright yellow beam is, before it was there every strike was a risk of disrupting major rail transport)", "Already covered above, it's how you get from one side of town to the other, it's bisected by the rail line.", "The can opener!" ]	5	videos	Roof ripper at the 11foot8+8 bridge
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qegadr/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qegadr/deleted_by_user/	[ "Yes", "She is loving the music...let her enjoy it", "Concur", "Who cares you bad weirdo", "This kinda feels like you want validation for fapping to this. It’s ok, fap to whatever you want we just don’t need to know about it.", "Haven’t even watched the video, only came here to tell you to stop judging people" ]	6	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qegbc8/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qegbc8/deleted_by_user/	[ "From what i know, this is made by one man. except for the voices.", "I want my 4 minutes back...", "You know, you don't have to post everything you stumble across.", "Gonna be a no from me dawg" ]	4	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/X3FJePrGZb8	/r/videos/comments/qegeva/the_1985_garfield_halloween_special_is_awesomely/	[ "This one scared the shit out of me as a kid. The first time I saw it I had nightmares that night", "I like Garfield.", "Thank you! I miss all these old specials :)", "it's really only the final scene with the old man that is spooky", "Haha I had this on video. This Garfield special and Garfield's big adventure, plus the farm animals.", "Garfield's Nine Lives, where in one his descendant goes rabid ...", "It's like a full party house.", "The ghost pirates are pretty good. \n\nI like the angle that this spooky old man is telling this haunting tale to, let's face it, a cat and a dog in adorable pirate costumes.", "As a young kid in the 80s this is pure nostalgia.", "I will never forget the old man telling the story and thr skeleton ghosts coming off the ship.", "yeah this was crazy too", "I still say \"Candy, candy, candy, candy\" when I eat candy on Halloween because of this special.", "I love that the skull on Garfield's hat reacts to something every time Garfield does too.", "This was a favorite in my family growing up!", "It's not often that someone sitting in a chair works as a jumpscare.", "Watched this repeatedly as a kid. Still have some of the songs in my head as a grown ass man in his 40s.", "I completely forgot this existed. This came out when I was 6 and I watched it over and over again until my dad took the VHS tape and got rid of it. Nostalgic stuff. Thank you OP", "I watch this every year! It never gets old! I remember waiting for this on the tv when i was a kid.\n\nHeeeeeeeey kiiiiiiiiids!", "I remembered the Christmas special but holy shit I completely forgot this one existed.", "This scared me so bad as a kid. I even had the book and couldn't look at the ghost pages. I had to stick it in the couch so I could go to sleep. I had always thought of my home as some safe zone. The fact that ghosts could chase you home and find you, dang that changed my world. Still a fan of Garfield tho.", "The song 'so long old friend' when Odie goes missing used to make me cry... one of the few things I can draw upon still if I need to release emotions", "Awesome halloween movie.I watch it every year for halloween.", "I’ve already watched this twice this year. A true classic!", "lol the clown sounds like he's saying \"FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU!\"", "Seriously? I’ve watched this numerous times and never noticed that. Guess I’ll just have to watch it again. Thanks for pointing that out.", "YES. Sometimes I say it out loud and I don't think anyone has ever recognized where that came from.", "Report the guy that replied to me for spamming.", "Sounds like you are quoting [Bobble the Clown](https://youtu.be/7jK9Cu3nIto)", "What was the scary part?", "The cartoon was great but the comic strip was shit and I find garfieldminusgarfield much more amusing.", "Jim Davis created Garfield the character to be as universally appealing, marketable, and bland as possible. I don't think he really likes any of the characters, but they do as intended and make money.\n\nBy the time the cartoon came out, people who actually did like the characters were working on it. So, it was markedly better than the strips ever were.", "cursed", "Still not as traumatic as the Alf Christmas special.", "horrible\n\n&#x200B;\n\nmicky mouse was scarier", "Im sorry Jon... I did not get the candy tonight. I also lost Odi, Jon. Follow me, lets look for him Jon.", "Not even a little scary. But good memories watching this on an old VHS tape. This and It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown were on the same tape. Recorded right off of TV, commercials and all.", "There was that week where the Garfield comic strip went really dark: \nhttps://www.gocomics.com/comics/lists/1720856/garfield-loneliness-denial-weird-storyline-1989", "Sheesh if it wasn’t 21 min long I’d watch it", "Is that Jeff Ross?", "\"I never knew I'd have to say..... so long\" \n\n\nOpen the taps! Release the water!", "This was the first Garfield holiday special that didn’t take fantastically sad turns leaving me and my little sister sitting in front of the TV in tears", "My god, all of those Garfield holiday specials would leave me and my sister bawling when we were kids", "Same, dude. This episode always freaked me out as a kid. I put it up there with the [Legend of Sleepy Hollow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDWSy9Woug) as classic horror cartoons.", "Loved this as a kid!", "They should make a porn where a Jon Arbuckle is reading the news paper and a he looks down and a hot girl dressed as Garfield is sucking on his cock and Jon is like 'GAAARFEILD!!!!!' and Garfield looks at the camera and says 'I hate Mondays' and continues to suck on his cock. And after Jon blows his load and Garfield sucks it all up she has a satisfied look on her face until she realizes 'Hey, that wasn't Lasagna!'", "Instead of the girl speaking the lines she just looks at the camera and the voice actor from the cartoon speaks the lines.", "Then make a Garfield minus Garfield version, where Jon just ejaculates over nothing.", "Jon Arbuckle is reading the news paper and a he looks down and realizes he's erect and Jon is like 'GAAARFEILD!!!!!' and after Jon blows his load and his cum mysteriously disappears into thin air.", "There is honestly nothing that Garfield Minus Garfield does not improve.", "I can't speak for everyone, but watching a bj sounds way better than watching a dude's dick bounce up and down until he fires blanks.", "Honestly it's more about seeing the look of pure ecstasy on Jon Arbuckle's face as he nuts that really gets me hard.", "\n\nLadies and gentlemen! Cop-Feel and friends!\n\nWe’re (We’re!) Ready (Ready!) For (For!) Orgies!\n\nWe’re ready for orgies, we’re ready (Oh yeah!) Just lay down right here on the beddie (I’m scared!) Cum on them, cum on their faces and their rear-ends Cum on them, this is an orgy with Cop-Feel and friends\n\n(Thrusting) Go harder! (Wet now) A squirter (Facials) Bukkake Deeper, Papi!\n\nCream pies-es (Cream pies-es) Some scheisen! (Some scheisen) And dongs of (And dongs of) All sizes!\n\nCum on them, cum on their faces and their rear-ends Cum on them, this is an orgy with Cop-Feel and friends\n\nCum on them, this is an orgy with Cop-Feel and friends Cop-Feel and friends\n\nYou try explaining the “oversized baby bouncer” in the kitchen when your parents visit\n\nreference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIPRFitgIc4", "Garfield the movie was a cinematic master piece and ahead of it’s time,it was the best cgi movie ever made with Garfield fur being so life like I could feel it though the screen and his actions being accurate to his comic depiction with a modern twist in some cases,critics will say the romance plot was uninteresting however to that I say have you read the sonnets which I compare to the beautifully crafted love plot this movie has thoughtfully made,the action was immense making you think what will happen to this adventurous feline next,with the ending being a ageless lesson about friendship as Garfield friends from the pound save him from the mean spirited chapman and then john comes to finish chapman off with a punch to the face", "I've been obsessed with Garfield, ever since I saw Jon Arbuckle naked.\n\nI remember when I was really little, I'd walk to the library to read books. I grew up poor, so I didn't have much in the way of entertainment. So every morning til evening I'd spend my days in the library, poring over endless books.\n\nI happened upon a nice clutch of Garfield comic books in the kids section. You remember the Garfield comic books, right? Paperback, longer than they were tall. A few had covers that sparkled, commemorating 5, or 10 years or holiday editions.\n\nWell, one day, I picked out one published in 1981. Third issue. It had a dark turquoise cover. \"GARFIELD: BIGGER THAN LIFE\" was the title, with the titular character himself sitting beside it proclaiming, \"I'm fat and I'm lazy and I'm proud of it!\" I'll never forget it.\n\nBut anyway, this isn't about Garfield. This is about Jon.\n\nThe comic strip started simple enough. Jon was walking past Garfield sitting on the table, heading to the living room where his friend Lyman was established to be in the strip on the previous page. He said something that annoyed Garfield, who had just noticed a stray thread hanging off his sweater.\n\nThe portly tabby stuck out his claw which caught on the string. The string got longer and longer as Jon walked away while the fat cartoon cat smiled mischievously. This persisted for a few panels until the last panel, where an embarrassed and annoyed Jon Arbuckle reappears before Garfield, stark naked but for a tiny clump of strings he held in front of his nethers. Garfield said something smartalecky, I can't remember... The punchline was lost on me because of how obsessed I was over seeing Jon Arbuckle's uncovered form.\n\nThat last panel. God, that last panel, I remember sitting in that library staring at it for half an hour, fascinated. His body was so sublime. It was the body of a god. Jon Arbuckle was a sexy, naked man. I desperately wished that tiny clump of string wasn't there and I could see my man in all his naked glory. Just the thought of that made me feel things I never felt before.\n\nhttps://imgur.com/dc8hIN5", "Garfield was born in 1967 and as a cat, he would have been dead well before the events of the thing on your shirt, but what most people don't realise is that Garfield doesn't actually exist. He is just a manifestation of Jon's insanity brought about through rejection and chronic loneliness. As the series continues, more and more characters are manifested by Jon, getting crazier and crazier each time. Think about it, why would a cat have an opinion on Mondays? They wouldn't. Its a projection Jon makes because he can't handle the constant bullying and torment he faces at work. But the reality is still that Garfield can't exist in the same timeline ad Neon Genesis because Jon is known to have hung himself in 1989", "So I'm a bit of an energy drink fanatic and I've concocted the perfect beverage for any Garfield fan.\n\n\n>Garfield Juice\n\n\n>Ingredients:\n\n3 liters of water\n\n17 oranges\n\n800mg of caffeine powder\n\nRaw chicken (whole)\n\nOrange food dye\n\n\n>Directions\n\nPre heat oven to 600f. Bring 2L of water to boil on stove top. Add the caffeine powder to the boiling water and stir. Once stirred, add oranges to caffeine-water one at a time, and remove each orange after 5 minutes. Discard boiling water. Insert each caffenated orange into raw chicken and bake in oven for 17 hours on a baking tray. Remove chicken. The chicken and oranges should be unrecognizable. Crush all contents of the baking tray into ash and add the ash to the remaining one liter of water. Add orange food dye to the solution. Serve the Garfield juice chilled.", "Because for reasons no one in his world can explain, once a week, for one glorious fleeting Sunday, Garfield discovers his normally gray world miraculously awash with the brilliancy of color, the loftiest cyans, sweetest magentas, and most radiant yellows all on full display, permeating all of existence with beauty indescribable. And then Monday dawns and cruelly snatches this rapturous full spectrum from his grasp, returning him to the empty monochrome shell of a world that is to be his prison for the remaining 6 days, taunting him with the memory of his brush with the sublime and the knowledge that as long as there are Mondays, that feeling will always be something he can never truly possess.", "\"... I not only saw the Garfield Gets Real Movie, but also Tail of Two Kittens, the Garfield Show, the Garfield Funfest, briefly saw Garfield's Pet Force, and busted my ass playing Garfield's Lasagna World Tour for the PS2 as a kid, softlocking myself and just quitting\n\nAfter all this, my mom had the NERVE to say that she liked Heathcliff better DESPITE THE FACT she let me do all this...\n\nThough this server has helped me appreciate both Garfield and Heathcliff as one, and realize that while Garfield is mainly light-hearted and digestible, it's overrated compared to the high-brow thinking-man's comedy of Heathcliff\n\nI hate to say that I owe more of my life to Garfield than I do my parents right now\n\nThanks Garfield.\"", "Are... You ok?", "Anytime Garfield comes up in conversation, I pretend that I think his favorite food is Spaghetti.\n\nNo matter how much it bothers them, or how many sites they show me, I stand my ground. 'Maybe it was localized for the younger audience', 'never trust Wikipedia!' (even if it isn't even Wikipedia), or, my favorite, 'that IS spaghetti, are you BLIND!?'\n\nI've lost friends over this. I almost got fired. I don't know why I am compelled to do this, but I can never stop.", "The Garfield Show: Threat of the Space Lasagna is a video game based on the Cartoon Network television series The Garfield Show, developed by French studio Eko System. It is the first video game based on the series and was released in the Summer of 2010 for the Wii. The game supports the Wii Balance Board and the Wii Motion Plus. In December 2011, it was released on Microsoft Windows and Nintendo DS in Russia. While Garfield is sleeping, the Space Lasagna are planning their return to Earth to take revenge on Garfield for stopping their plan on the episode \"Pasta Wars\". They discover that Garfield is friendly with the mice, and decide to take control of them and make the mice wreak havoc around the city while the Space Lasagna go about with their plan. Later that day, after the Space Lasagna starts their plan, Garfield wakes up and finds Squeak hiding. Squeak then tells Garfield about how the Space Lasagna has mind-controlled his family, and Garfield decides to save Squeak's family, and stop the Space Lasagna from invading their planet once and for all. The game revolves around 16 minigames. In single-player, the player is only allowed to play as Garfield while the opposing team (mice or space lasagna) are computers. In multiplayer, the players may choose to either be Garfield or the opposing team. The game also includes a story mode where the player can unlock all the minigames and hats, and a minigame mode, where the player can choose any minigame they unlocked. In each game, either Garfield tries to stop the opposing team, or the opposing team tries to keep Garfield from thwarting its plans. Every minigame supports either the Wii Balance Board or the Wii Motion Plus.", "I swear to god Nick buying Garfield is a fucking conspiracy\n\nIf you try to find Jim Davis (The Creator of Garfield) company (Paws Inc.) it's just fucking gone. Like you can search it up, google still knows what it is but the website, the twitter, the employees, are all just fucking gone. All Garfield images with the Paws Inc logo have been swapped out for the same exact image but with the nick logo instead, its fucking madness! Jim Davis never made a statement about his company just being bought out of nowhere apparently, they brought it last year but PawsInc.com/Garfield.com were still a thing until recently, like wtf.", "Garfield was a legend, a classic. Nobody in twenty years will take about this pidgeon. Everything nowadays is about short time entertainment with little value to it. Consume it and throw it away. Who are the Beatles of today, Cardi B? What is the Alien of today, Meet the Spartans? Who is the George Carlin of today, Logan Paul? All of this will be forgotten in a short amount of time. I really feel that we are not evolving in the right direction.", "As Garfield sits on a rock in these desolate wastes, he thinks back on his life. He wonders if it was all worth it, all he's done. It must be, right? Otherwise, he's have wasted countless years on something that gave him nothing back. The thought terrifies him, to his surprise. Garfield realizes he hasn't felt... well, anything, for a long time. As he stares into the void of space, he ponders the insignificance of it all. \"No use in fleeting emotion\", he thinks to himself. \"After all, nothing is forever, in the grand scheme of things. Why bother getting upset?\". Garfield pauses to pull out his pipe. \"There's no use for anything, really.\" As he takes a looks upon his pipe, used so long to relax him, Garfield looks around him at the lifeless landscape around him. At this moment, Garfield realizes that he'd rather spend his last moments here, in empty bliss, than die in the chaos of the world. As he shifts into a more comfortable position, he removes his protective suit, and takes a puff on his pipe. To his surprise, there's enough of an atmosphere to allow him to inhale anything. \"One last material comfort\" Garfield thinks. As he gazes into the infinity of space, he has his last thought before the void takes him: \"I am tired of this earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their Mondays.\"", "Watched this every year when I was a kid. This and it’s the great pumpkin Charlie Brown.", "Are you talking about how the bourgeois Garfield exploits the working class Jon to steal his labor, repeatedly demeaning and manipulating him because Jon is too nice and agreeable to theoretically \"dethrone\" Garfield from his kingly position?", "My favorite one was the cosmological theory explains the existence of God, but not a specific God. This means that a physical form of Garfield the Cat could be watching from the afterlife. The theory says that the intricate and complicated design of our universe (Every leaf in the world being different, every grain of dirt having some form of a difference) is clearly made by an intelligent being, most athiests would argue that our universe has always existed, and that there is no God. If there really is no God, there is no meaning to life. Much like how if Garfield the Cat doesn't exist, the shows and comics (aka bible) he stars in are meaningless too, this may be a coincidence, but I highly doubt that. On top of this, if the world had existed for eternities why is it only burning out now? Pretty convient for the sake of an argument, hmm? So anyways, the theory says that the universe was made by an intelligent being that doesn't follow the laws of matter (Look at how much the cat eats, he has broken the laws of physics with ease as he was the creator of them.) or time. (He has outlived thousands in his lifetime, and has not aged physically or mentally over the course of 70+ years!) These both point straight to Garfield the Cat, this many 'coincidences' is very unlikely. It really does apply to all religions, if it includes an afterlife and something that rules it, chances are their fake, made up God is actually the merciful Garfield the Cat. You may all laugh this off as a joke, but the evidence is undeniable.", "Garfield: His 9 Lives is a 1984 book of illustrated short stories that showcase the \"nine lives\" of Jim Davis' comic strip character Garfield. The book is divided into ten segments; the first one displays the creation of cats in general, where the latter nine reveal events in Garfield's nine lives. Each of the nine stories has a short preface of Garfield in his modern incarnation, explaining how these various lives shaped aspects of Garfield's personality, such as the origin of his fear of the veterinarian, his love of destructive behavior, his proclivity for a slothful lifestyle, and his extremely playful side. It was later adapted into an animated television special in 1988, and a comic book by BOOM Studios from 2014 to 2015.", "Some of you may disagree, but Garfield would shit stomp Puss in Boots in a fight. No weapons. Just fisticuffs. Garfield may be lazy but he's been carboloading on lasagna for years. He's got some serious ass behind him. Now, hear me out, Puss has to rely on a sword because while he's agile he lacks a great deal of physical strength. Garfield regularly kicks Odie, a creature easily his size or larger, clear off the furniture with no effort. We've never seen Garfield at full power. NEVER FUCK WITH A MAN WHO’S GOD IS LASAGA.", "Once upon a Monday dreary\n\nAs I pondered weak and weary\n\nOver many an aluminum dish\n\nOf hot lasagna gone.\n\nWhen I reached across the table\n\nFor I wished to smoke, while able\n\nThere I found no pipe was resting\n\nAs there once had been upon.\n\nNo pipe there\n\nMy pipe was gone.", "did it piss anyone the fock off that they never did a focking crossover? Like serously? omg", "Fucking Garfield man… he’s got his face all over T-shirts and TV and posters telling me to read. What a poser. He acts like he is this big “Fuck You” punk cat, but he’s just in it for the money.\n\nHeathcliff, now there is a punk fucking rock cat! He fucks with everybody! He doesn’t give a fuck! And when was the last time you saw someone wearing a Heathcliff T-shirt? Never! Garfield’s daily comic strip is always at least three panels long. Heathcliff gets it done in one because it’s not about the art, man, it’s about the attitude. Punk as fuck!", "See here’s what no one gets, the difference between the manga and the anime for Garfield is almost shocking. The character arcs of not only Garfield, who can even come off as an antagonist at times, which, in itself provides an amazing character arc, has evolved so much in the manga, whereas his anime adaptation does NOT represent this same way.\n\nTake for example his treatment of Odie, in the manga he creates more of an understanding and care for Odie while still kidding around with him, but, in the anime, he’s not even playing with him, let alone understanding him.\n\nThere is also the introduction of characters and character arcs, in 1982 (2 years after the original creation of Garfield) was the intro of Dr Liz. This only creates a void for the protagonist, Garfield to need one such. Hence, the introduction of Arlene. But she was already in it however.\n\nIt took them 4 years to evolve Garlene, however, the bonding between Jon and Dr Liz is almost instant. This makes no sense at all, and creates an almost back and forth, it hurts. I dislike it a lot, and I really think it creates this need for an equal representation.\n\nIn summary, the character arcs of the Garfield manga and anime are not equal, in any extent. There are many more, but how they portray the evolvement of Garfield and friends in the anime almost ruins the manga.", "I hate Andrew Garfield so much, he's not even garfield. we have all been lied to and betrayed. I mean look at his stupid face he couldn't even be garfield if he tried. absolute scam. Look at his long stupid head and his droopey ears ugh I hate him so much. I just want him to not exist he makes me want to cut off my cock just for being the same gender as this pathetic excuse of a man. I don't even want to call him a man he's a lier and not a cat and I wish hell upon andrew garfield.", "Garfield Kart. A monument to all of our sins, the enlightenment to reverenced sacrifices, and above all else, the emblem of the Garfield's holy image.\n\nIn the first ages of man, The legend says that Prometheus came from the skies above and gifted us the most valuable thing of all; fire. Nay, it was never fire. Fire came from our own devices, but the true valuable thing of all Prometheus gave us: Garfield Kart. Forged from Olympus above by Hephaestus himself, Garfield Kart was never meant for mankind. T’was for war, a war against the regions Hades controlled. With the war slowly brewing, Prometheus made the ultimate sacrifice to give mankind Garfield Kart. Eons passed after the execution of Hades. Without Garfield Kart to protect the gods from their undoing, Olympus eventually crumbles down to the Earthly soil.", "you think you're garfield huh? you think you're garfield the cat?\n\nyou have the guts. the fucking gall, to sit here in front of me, and cal yourself \"garfield the cat\". you have the fucking audacity, to say these words in front of me. to put anyone on the same level as garfield. \"i ate one lasagna i'm just like garfield\". you have the fucking nerve, to just call yourself \"garfield\", iconic cat, because you ate one lasagan", "Garfield Kart is the physical equivalent to Halo. With an amazing storyline. And amazing characters. Most people don't understand why Garfield is racing Jon in a go kart match. But people whom have an high iq can understand the lore. Jon was fed up with Garfield being a fat cat, and had enough. He put him into a go kart and said \"Race me or you'll never see your lasagna again.\" So Garfield raced him. And they raced, and raced, and raced, and raced. Until they've given up. Jon knew he was defeated. But he never gave up. He called down Odie to join the race. It was a fierceful 2 v 1, with aliens flying around everywhere and pies being thrown But it seemed like nothing could take down Garfield. Then it happened. The final race. Every character was against Garfield. They were fed up with his winning streak. They all decided to join together and build one mega kart.", "Ever since I watched this I keep having these dreams that I'm trapped in the Garfield 2004 movie.\n\nI feel like dream is blending into reality. I looked in my fridge and lasagne was there and I swear I'd never brought lasagne before in my life. My eyes hurt from not sleeping in days. I fear for when I pass out and sleep. What do I do to get rid of these dreams??", "few people realise that Garfield is set around 1920 with Jon's job as a cartoonist masquerades his traumatic shell shock and he can only find sanity in \"speaking\" to his cat. In fact the cat isn't really there. Garfield was the surname of one of his trench buddies, which was nicknamed \"Odie\" because of his uncanny ability to duck for cover before the shells actually exploded. When Jon saw private Garfield's remains one brief day, he snapped. Nurse Liz could barely bring him out of his madness and only attained coherence with him by giving him a pencil and a pad of paper, where he'd draw doodles of a stupid looking cat and dog. \"This is Garfield, he's my friend.\" He'd say when he got his medical discharge.\n\nWhen \"Garfield\" dreads going to the vet, it's really Jon dreading the numerous instances of Liz holding his hand and trying to tell him the cat isn't actually there. At some point she wanted to be nice and gave him a cute gray kitten, which she said was a \"Normal\" cat. \"Garfield\" hated the cat, whose name was forgotten and became \"Nermal\", a constant reminder of what reality was like and tried to get rid of it. The mailman kept getting a box to ship to Abu Dhabi but always with insufficient postage so the \"Nermal\" cat remained.", "this completes many childhood thoughts as to why when I watched each life. thanks.", "Despite his sometimes selfishness and sheer laziness, Garfield loves both Odie and Jon nonetheless, as well as his beloved teddy bear Pooky, which is frequently seen in his Garfield's arms or close to him\n\nIn The Garfield Show, while Garfield still retains his signature traits, he is considerably more compassionate towards his friends.", "Me too. This is my favorite\n\nIn the year 130 BC Jon Arbuckle climbed atop a mountain, once he reached the peak he found two tablets made of stone. As Jon reached out to grab them lightning struck the tablets, once Jon had regained his vision he inspected the tablets further. There were now inscriptions glowing from the two tablets, and they smelled of lasagna. These tablets are what we base true ascension on, any deviation from these commandments will result in an instant kick from the Church of Garfield.\n\nI - Thou shalt have no other gods before Garfield.\n\nII - Thou shalt not worship any objects other than lasagna.\n\nIII - Thou shalt not use Garfield's name in vain.\n\nIV - Worship Garfield on Fridays.\n\nV - Honor all days of the week, except Monday.\n\nVI - Thou shalt not kill, unless it involves lasagna thievery.\n\nVII - Thou shalt commit acts of adultery.\n\nVIII - Thou shalt not steal another's lasagna.\n\nIX - Thou shalt not lie to any members of the Church of Garfield.\n\nX - Thou shalt not be jealous of another's lasagna recipes.", "Despite his sometimes selfishness and sheer laziness, Garfield loves both Odie and Jon nonetheless, as well as his beloved teddy bear Pooky, which is frequently seen in his Garfield's arms or close to him\n\nIn The Garfield Show, while Garfield still retains his signature traits, he is considerably more compassionate towards his friends.", "Many Garfield strips show Garfield spending time with his mother. She has yellow fur, with white around the mouth. In many Garfield shorts (namely Garfield on the Town), however, Garfield’s mom is shown with similar colors and markings to Garfield, only in a lighter shade. This can be easily explained away as a difference between the shorts and the strips, until you consider a certain “Garfield: His Nine Lives” once more. In this animated short, Garfield’s mom is shown with yellow fur, just like in the strips, breaking the norm for the shorts. This means that these two different versions of Garfield’s mom must be two different people, and Garfield is shown being equally affectionate to both, meaning they are likely his two mothers.", "Maybe you should shut up before I can’t sleep again after 36 years!", "Lyman is a character who appeared in 67 Garfield strips from 1978 to 1983, and then was seemingly removed entirely. Lyman’s fate remained one of the greatest mysteries for Garfield fans for a very long time, and could warrant a complete essay of its own. One important aspect of Lyman’s character is that he is shown to be Odie’s original owner in the strips, yet in the “Garfield: His Nine Lives” book, released in 1984, only a year after Lyman’s last appearance in the comics, Jon is clearly shown adopting Odie from a pet store, with Lyman nowhere to be seen. With Lyman seemingly retconned from the story, he never appears again until 2002, in the halloween flash game, “Garfield’s Scary Scavenger hunt.” In the basement of the house in which the game takes place, Lyman can be found chained up, clearly starving and in bad shape. But this is not all. In “Garfield’s Scary Scavenger Hunt 2,” released the next year, inside an oven can be found Lyman’s severed head, illustrated in graphic detail.³ So how did this happen to Lyman, and why does the cast pretend he never existed? In the August 15 1978 edition of the Garfield comic strip, Lyman is shown strangling and beating Odie as punishment. This is likely not an isolated occurrence, as it is not even the main focus of the strip (the joke is about Odie peeing on the floor). Witnessing this horrendous mistreatment of an innocent animal, Jon likely reached a breaking point, and decided to take matters into his own hands. He chained Lyman up in the basement of an abandoned house, only feeding him the bare minimum. Then, when he felt Lyman had completed his punishment, Jon finally killed him. The head was hidden in the oven, and none of the other body parts were ever found, which begs the question, did Jon cannibalize Lyman’s remains?⁴", "At the end of \"Garfield: His Nine Lives\" (both the animated special and the comic book), which features Garfield being repeatedly killed and reincarnated in different forms, Garfield and Odie confront God after going through all 9 of their lives.⁵ They negotiate with God, and manage to convince him that their last life was lost unfairly, then \"trick\" him by saying that they still had 8 lives left, after the one they just earned a do-over on. Then, just before sending them back to earth, God is revealed to have the face of an orange and black tabby cat, and says to Garfield, \"we have to stick together\" implying that he knew perfectly well how many lives were left, and just wanted to help. This can be interpreted in a few ways. In the beginning, God is shown creating cats, and says that they are his favorite creation, giving them 9 lives for that reason. Perhaps God put special care into creating Garfield as the perfect representation of his favorite creation, and grew attached? In the end, God's eyes light up yellow as the screen fades out. In Garfield's 7th life in the animated short, he is used as a lab test animal designated \"19-GB,\" and is injected with a mysterious serum that is shown to allow him to shape shift and give him extreme strength. When he transforms, his eyes light up yellow, exactly like God's do in the end. It's possible that this serum, once he learned to control it, gave 19-GB the powers of God.⁶", "Listen Garfield. does your greed know no bounds? Even putting aside the fact that i adopted and raised you in loving, caring arms, you should realize that in the sole source to your so beloved lasagna and cutting holes in my oven mittens is a idiotic mistake on your part, now i have 2nd degree burns and no oven mittens which means you wont be able to receive your treat, but i am no longer to the ability to produce such treat for you and i to consume you greedy bastard, i will send you off to china and i would very much so to see how long you shall last, about a week before you get caught, cooked and eaten. not so prideful now? i scoff at scum like you, leave my presence this instant you oaf.", "My name is Jon Arbuckle. I'm 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Indiana, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as a cartoonist for the local newspaper, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After that I make lasagna for my cat Garfield and walk Odie, my dog. I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues with my cat at his last vet check-up with Liz.\n\nI'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life with my pets. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause Garfield and Odie to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.", "Garfield Kart is the physical equivalent to Halo. With an amazing storyline. And amazing characters. Most people don't understand why Garfield is racing Jon in a go kart match. But people whom have an high iq can understand the lore. Jon was fed up with Garfield being a fat cat, and had enough. He put him into a go kart and said \"Race me or you'll never see your lasagna again.\" So Garfield raced him. And they raced, and raced, and raced, and raced. Until they've given up. Jon knew he was defeated. But he never gave up. He called down Odie to join the race. \n\nIt was a fierceful 2 v 1, with aliens flying around everywhere and pies being thrown But it seemed like nothing could take down Garfield. Then it happened. The final race. Every character was against Garfield. They were fed up with his winning streak. They all decided to join together and build one mega kart. One so powerful that not even Papa Luigi could take down. Garfield was still confident that he could win. Then the day approached. The race began. The sky was dark. It started to rain. It all came down to this one race. Garfield was ahead, as always. But he noticed his car was starting to fall apart. His engine started to smoke, and his wheels were slowly coming off. \n\nThere was a mark on his kart saying \"Nermal <3\" Garfield was furious, and he continued to race, even when death seemed likely. His car, only having two wheels left and a burning engine, coming close to the finish line. Where Vito was waiting for him, with a hot, steamy lasagna. The car blew the third wheel. Only one wheel left, but Garfield still was going. Until. Jon pulled out a c4 and said \"THIS IS THE END FOR YOU, FAT CAT.\" He threw it at the car, and detonated it. An explosion could be heard miles away. There was nothing left of the kart but a could of smoke. But, ladies and gentlemen. \n\nThis wasn't the end of garfied. Vito went to Garfield, who seemed to have passed out. He fed Garfield the lasagna, hoping it could wake him up. \"I believe in-a you, Garfield.\" Vito said. \"Wake up.\" Garfield's eyes opened. \"It's-a miracle!\" Vito shouted. Garfield got on a little board with wheels. The mega kart full of the other characters was closing in on Garfield, but the finish line was right there. \n\nThe kart did a mega-boost that would leave Garfield in the dust. But using the strength Garfield got from Vito's lasagna, he pushed the board towards the finish line. They were head to head, Jon, who looked almost insane, went full power. He started throwing the other characters off to gain speed. He was doing anything he could to gain enough speed to beat Garfield. The smoke clears, the finish line was destroyed. It looks like it has been a tie. But the final replay played. Silence from the audience. Jon looked at the replay and almost cried. The winner was... Garfield.", "Greetings, mr. Field, Garfield if I may. I am a huge fan and advocate of your hatred toward the day on the Gregorian Callander known as Monday (the day after Sunday and the day before Tuesday, for clarification). As I am writing this Monday edges ever closer and I cannot put into words how much this makes my blood boil, how much it grinds my gears. And to put it frankly, really cheeses me off (I apologise for my crude language mr. Field). The reason I am contacting you is to ask if you would like to join my movement of “just ignore Monday’s, they’ll go away eventually”. I only created this movement recently but I believe if we can recruit enough people to our cause and if they also “choose to just ignore Monday’s” we can shorten the week to just 6 days and eradicate Monday’s.\n\nMr. Field if you choose to respond to my request for aid I believe this would further our cause by leaps and bounds.\n\nSincerely, a man that hates Monday’s just as much as you", "Greetings, mr. Field, Garfield if I may. I am a huge fan and advocate of your hatred toward the day on the Gregorian Callander known as Monday (the day after Sunday and the day before Tuesday, for clarification). As I am writing this Monday edges ever closer and I cannot put into words how much this makes my blood boil, how much it grinds my gears. And to put it frankly, really cheeses me off (I apologise for my crude language mr. Field). The reason I am contacting you is to ask if you would like to join my movement of “just ignore Monday’s, they’ll go away eventually”. I only created this movement recently but I believe if we can recruit enough people to our cause and if they also “choose to just ignore Monday’s” we can shorten the week to just 6 days and eradicate Monday’s.\n\nMr. Field if you choose to respond to my request for aid I believe this would further our cause by leaps and bounds.\n\nSincerely, a man that hates Monday’s just as much as you", "Garfield eats, I think that’s been pretty well established. His lifelong love affair with pasta and pizza is legendary. In fact, if Garfield could design the perfect restaurant, it would feature lasagna and pizza, and because he’s on the lazy side, he’d want to make it simple to get his paws on the food as quickly as possible.\n\nWell, Garfield’s dream has come true, and it’s in the form of a new innovative concept restaurant, GarfieldEATS, opening in the heart of downtown Toronto soon. So here’s why it’s great:\n\nFirst (and perhaps most importantly), the food is delicious. All ingredients are farmed to plate, meaning no preservatives, no artificial coloring, no fertilizers, no GMOs, nothing but good honest food, and that’s saying a mouthful!\n\nNaturally, lasagna is on the menu, along with pizza shaped like Garfield’s head no less! And of course for you Java Junkies, a Garfuccino flavored coffee. And for those with a sweet tooth, there’s dark chocolate!\n\nNext, it’s easy and fun. Easy in that you can order from an app either at home or right in cashier las store, and fun in that you can be entertained with Garfield cartoons, games, and special offers.\n\nWe’re calling this an entergaging app, both engaging and entertaining, and over 2 years went into the research and development of this unique restaurant concept. I have to hand it to Nathan Mezra and Pascal Haider, co-founders of GarfieldEATS. Their entrepreneurial spirit brought their concept to reality last year when they opened in Dubai, and Nathan’s enthusiasm is the driving force here in Toronto. I did dish out some food for thought with Nathan, I said “Nathan, take care of the cat, and the cat will take care of you,” and I believe he has.\n\nWe’ve been working as partners to conceive a dining experience which recognizes a shift in consumer behavior, and embraces digital convenience. Instead of a quick service restaurant, think of a quick mobile restaurant, and I’m proud that we’ve been sensitive to healthy living concerns with the food, all the way down to environmentally friendly packaging.\n\nToronto, you’re in for a treat! Stop by the store and download the GarfieldEATS app and prepare for a new and delicious experience!", "Wtf lol", "Maybe you should draw a cartoon about it", "Well he’s certainly not a tabby but I don’t know his stance on lasagna and Monday’s so I have to hold my thoughts until I’ve done more research.", "[Also...](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x57fkhi)", "Poltergeist is rated PG. the 1980s were wild", "[Christmas is right around the corner](https://youtu.be/Ye6KMe4ABmE)", "Are you a Garfield shitpost bot or something?", "Been watching Garfield ani.sted series from the early 90s on Tubi..a lot of the humor seems pretty modern and is damn funny", "yes -proceeds to have sex with a toaster-", "Omg I thought this was lost to my memory long ago. Thank you!!" ]	104	videos	The 1985 Garfield Halloween Special is awesomely way scarier than it has any right to be
https://www.cc.com/video/k9le4i/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-decisive-shooter	/r/videos/comments/qegf23/flashback_to_when_vp_cheney_shot_a_dude_in_the/	[ "Never forget", "and that incident was actually funny. not for the poor bastard who got \"peppered\" (seasoned) to within an inch of his life, but because of the absurd hyper secrecy and wannabe bourne badassery of the W administration and Cheney's act as the dungeon master of post-9/11 intel, Iraqi WMD lie culminating in this...losing track of a quail and blasting an old man in the face.", "And the guy that got shot in the face even apologized to Cheney but Cheney never apologized to the guy.", "15 year old news? About a genuine accident?\n\nJust how desperate is the Left to cover up their international embarrassment?", "I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than fishing with Ted Kennedy.", "The most insane part of this whole story was that the guy who Cheney shot came out soon after and actually apologized to Cheney for getting shot instead, haha.", "We need context here. Is the Left a band?", "lol are you ok", "A quail bred to not fly or run away at that.", "Why do I keep seeing strange and awful posts rubbing salt into basically everyone's wounds about this total tragedy? \n\nDust hasn't settled and it seems like an immediate opportunity for some people to just be really classless.", "It was an inexcusable accident then, and it still is. He got off the hook way too easily. \n\nI've done plenty of bird hunting and hunted big game almost every year for three decades. It is incredibly easy not to shoot other people while hunting. It's practically impossible for anyone with a basic respect for firearm safety rules to accidentally shoot anyone or anything else. Cheney was reckless with his gun like he was our military, and he should not have been forgiven as easily as he was.", "Like what? The only thing I can think of is Dan Crenshaw and SNL apologized even though they shouldnt have but also that wasnt a tragedy, just maybe in poor taste.", "And Id rather my pussy be grabbed by a mountain lion than Donald Trump.", "Oh, I thought of some, All the school shootings where conservatives say they were all actors and harass the victims families for years afterwards. Is that what you mean?", "as i recall from the time it happened, the pellets that hit HW shifted in/around his heart and there was a possibility that he could die and, if HW died, should VP Cheney resign?\n\n\n\nLike yeah, let's have a VP who just shotgunned a guy to death negotiate with senate leadership or meet VIPs from other countries?", "This and the shooting itself were go to Daily Show and Colbert Report jokes for years. I loved both of those shows at the time, but they turned that horse into pulp.", "It was the dude's fault.\nWhen bird hunting you have to track them side to side. Safety requires everyone stand in a line and move together. The guy shot stepped ahead of everyone else and so when Cheney pivoted tracking a bird, boom, face full of bird shot.", "And the shot-in-the-face dude apologized to Darth Vader.", "Regardless if that is actually what happened...Safety also requires that you look at what's in you're field of fire before discharging a weapon.", "Ever hunt doves?\n\nThey are fast. If you had to stop each time to look around you would never take a shot.\n\nSafety requires you stay in the line so no one can shoot you.", "Mirror?", "This is 'whataboutism'. I'm talking about this thing right now.", "Rust hasn’t settled", "This event was so bizarre that I made DVD of every show that week. My favorite week watching the Daily Show. I knew the would go nuts with it.", "The birds were driven to the spot and dumped upside down in the brush. I watched a daily show report of how these hunts work. Not hunting in my mind.", "All the people attempting to point out every fault possible with the Baldwin situation would argue that the person with the gun is ultimately responsible for ensuring a weapon is not fired towards a person.", "I’d wager you’ve never hunted before", "I was working the host stand at our resort shortly after this happened, and got to joke back and forth with Robin Williams about this when he walked in for dinner (he was staying there for a few weeks). Everyone else was a bit too starstruck, but we shared a good laugh.", "Oh I remember hearing news of it as it happened. I couldnt wait* for the latenight shows to have their field day with it 😆", "Also was firing into the sun so couldn’t really see.", "Driven? Like driven in the back of a truck? No no no it must mean driven like a team of hunters scaring wild birds along a predetermined path. Not just shooting pet birds after Uber-ing them to the woods. ( \n\n So you're saying I can just take my friends pet bird outside, throw it into a bush like a baseball and just blast it with a gun and call that hunting?", "It's bizarre how often people still bring it up. \"Just a reminder that Dick Cheney shot a guy in the face and the other guy apologized\" and such. It's such a non-issue I can't understand how it's even on anyone's radar still. Maybe that was the last big event before they stopped paying attention to anything going on in the world?", "Yeah, that doesn't really help Cheney's case. \"I couldn't see what I was shooting so I can't be held responsible for what happened after I pulled the trigger\"", "I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than be in a movie with Alec Baldwin.", "Yeah but that is a shitty analogy when you think you are firing a gun with blanks for a movie vs a gun loaded to kill.", "I remember seeing Lewis Black perform a day or two after this happened. He spent about 30 minutes rapid firing jokes about it. It was amazing!", "How many doves does it take to make a stew? The fuck you hunting things you don't plan on eating? Talk about weird ass shit lol.", "1. Douche I don't hunt dove.\n2. You do eat them.\n3. Why is that your takeaway from this?", "In your mind Alex Baldwin is the victim?", "lmao Is this post supposed to be a response to Alec Baldwin killing a woman?\n\nIn fact I know it is because the \"yeah well Dick Cheney shot someone once!\" talking-pointing is being systematically broadcast on the progressive-controlled subreddits", "The original post is rubbing salt in the wound of a shooting accident. \n\nI dont have a bird in this fight, but of all the places to make a comment about it here seems appropriate.", "It's Alec.\n\nAnd I never said that.\n\nBut I do feel terrible for the guy.\n\nYou should too.", "It's like fishing in an overstocked pond.", "Because a bunch of fat rich old white men walking through the woods in a line clapping albino pigeons is dumb as fuck lol.", "Ask him. Maybe he feels like he fucked up. Maybe Darth Cheney used the dark side of the force to make him.", "Why?\nI feel sorry for the people he shot.\nHe is a lifelong douche and anti gun tool who was making a movie with guns. In said movie he didn't follow basic gun safety and he killed a woman.\nHe isn't a victim.", "Pigeons aren't doves dunce.\nYou think only old white dudes hunt?\nThat dumb assumption is all on you.", "I'm sure you have enjoyed a lot of movies that used guns and pretended to kill and maim people. It's okay. It's entertainment.\n\nThis incident is tragic and his political opinions have nothing to do with what just happened. \n\nI feel sad for you that you gave up your humanity and empathy and turned this into a political issue.\n\nI hope that one day you you will realize how cruel your attitude is and that you will adjust it because I know that you're better than that.", ">[Columbidae is a bird family consisting of pigeons and doves. It is the only family in the order Columbiformes.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbidae)\n\nY'all are eating pigeon. 😂", "Damn you're ignorant as hell", "This guy loves the taste of pigeon. 😂", "Guy got shot in the face, no fucking shit he feels like he fucked up.", "His antigun stance is hypocritical and my empathy is reserved for the people who he hurt.", "Not sure who he hurt, happy to learn more about it.\n\nBut regardless, he's now a broken man who's going to suffer survivor bias for the rest of his life, and for this, I really feel sorry for him. Nobody deserves that.", "Lions and house cars are both felids doesn'tmean they are the same. And fyi pigeons are eaten in some parts of France.\nStick to McDonald's if you want.", "How is his anti gun stance hypocritical?", "Look, all I'm saying is that your excuse for shooting your friend in the face was that you were blasting garbage bush meat, you've got bigger problems to tend to lol.", "That’s not the joke here. The joke here is Cheney shot someone in the face.", "People who, through their own negligence, shoot someone should feel bad.\n\nThis was a chain of fuck ups. The armorer obviously had no controls in place, and Baldwin failed to look and see if the gun was loaded. \nEveryone in that chain of events owns some blame.", "In the same way that elsewhere in the comments you say Cheney wasn’t at fault due to the incident being largely caused by the other guy’s negligence and lack of safety it would then logically not be Baldwin’s fault since his responsibilities as actor/producer didn’t include checking the gun or confirming the firearm safety aspect such as distance from target when firing the blank, etc.", "He is using guns to make a movie for which he gets paid.\nWhile being antigun.\n\nKinda like being a vegan and owning a cattle ranch.", "You really have no idea how guns work, do you?\n\nBlank rounds look exactly like live rounds.\n\nYou could open the gun and examine the rounds under a microscope, and you wouldn't be able to tell if you're looking at a live round or a blank.\n\nEither way, it's not his job to do this.\n\nPlease educate yourself on gun safety.\n\nAnd then show some empathy for your fellow human beings, even if you disagree with them.\n\nNobody deserves this kind of horrible incident.", "Small difference is that Cheney was shooting when the other man stepped out of line.\nIf the woman shot by Baldwin had stepped into an otherwise safe line of fire and got shot Baldwin wouldn't be in the wrong. \nHe pointed a gun at someone and didn't verify it was unloaded.", "I'm not Dick Cheney. And saying that dove is garbage bush meat just shows how ignorant you are.", "Pigeons are rock doves.", "Birdshot not buckshot. If it was buckshot he'd be dead considering buckshot travels at the speed of 9mm, and is half the weight per pellet. So it's like taking the equiv energy of 3-4 9mm to the face.\n\n Birdshot is at much lower velocity, lower mass, my and often made of lead over steel. You'd get fucked up but there's a huge difference between the two in terms of how much it'd suck.", "Actors are not allowed to check the guns, that’s the armorer’s job. He was told that the gun was cold, meaning it didn’t even have blanks in it. The reason that armorers are on set is specifically to prevent these things.", ">I'm not Dick Cheney.\n\nProve it.", "Not allowed?\nNot allowed by whom?", "Come over and I won't shoot you.", "Because an actor doing anything with the gun other than the specifically assigned job of “point and pull the trigger” is extra liability. The failure is on the part of the safety and armory people who failed to complete their JOB of checking the gun.", "Again, that’s not his responsibility though. That’s on the on-set Firearms Expert (a role you can see credited in countless films) to ensure the integrity of the gun/ammo and the safety of a potential scene. Actors aren’t trained to do that sort of thing and it’s not their job to be. That’s like blaming Hilton’s CEO for the doorman not carrying your bags in, albeit with greater consequences. \n\nDelegation of duties is important. The President may be the commander in chief of the military but I wouldn’t have wanted Obama drawing up the siege plans for the Bin Laden raid even though he was the one technically in charge and having final approval.", "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.", "No one cares about my opinion, but here it is. \n\nAnyone that has ever bird hunted in a line understands that maintaining a steady group pace is important. You call out constantly to make sure you know where everyone is. A guy who gets ahead of the line eager to take a shot made a mistake. A big mistake. \n\nBut every hunter also understands TRIGGER DISCIPLINE. No game on this planet is worth accidentally hitting a buddy. I personally once had a QUADRUPLE (grouse) flush when hunting with my dad in deep cedar woods, but because I hadn’t actually seen my dad in about 60 seconds and the flush was into his direction, I had to let that flush pass. Turns out my dad stopped to adjust his boot in the muck and fell behind. In hindsight coulda taken the shot. Regardless, no regrets. \n\nCheney shot a guy. Yes the guy fucked up a basic component of hunter safety. The kinda stuff they tell you on day one not to do. But Cheney’s fuck up was so much worse- He fucking shot a guy. I get the guy apologizing if Cheney aimed, saw him, and didn’t shoot. But Cheney shot in the direction of a person he was hunting with and knew was in that direction, but for some reason pulled the trigger anyway despite obviously not knowing exactly where his friend was. \n\nYes it was an accident, no question. But Cheney massively fucked up. Massively.", "I promise, no shootings this time.\nYou will see I am not Dick Cheney.", "you shot me..my bad", "Where in this thread is the movie set accident being discussed? This entire post is about the Cheney incident...", "That's the stupidest take I've seen on this whole story. Using a gun as prop in a movie and and thinking that people should be keeping guns in their homes are completely different things.", "It’s relevant right now. Right this moment.\n\nThis is why you are seeing it brought up. It wasn’t brought up for over a decade but it’s relevant again.", "\"Yeah your audition went great, unfortunately we can't cast you as Hitler because some dipshit on reddit thinks you need to kill 8 million Jews first otherwise you're a hypocrite.\"", "Umm what? No “we” weren’t…. Did you not read the title of the post? What does a 20 year old shooting accident have to do with Alec Baldwin’s situation?", "It’s because of the slew of conservatives talking about this while using talking points that are completely relevant to that time Dick Cheney shot someone in the face and conservatives at that time didn’t give a shit.", "I don't think you understand how classification families work.", "No it wasn’t. Basic rules of firearm safety. Know what’s in your targets foreground and background", "I think some comments got crossed here... I was replying to a guy above whose comment is now deleted.", "Dude didn’t die, and Dick likely did it in purpose as he was in total control and sound mind. So all the CONServative asses using this to justify laughing about Baldwin accidentally killing Hutchins can go fist themselves and get stuck.", "Lol yeah I dunno what the heck happened here. Let’s just agree that shooting people in the face is bad. Very very bad.", "Guy who acknowledges the current contextual relevance of Cheney denies his relevance.", "Pigeons where actually introduced to the US as a source of food", "I just can't understand why people keep referencing that other time a famous person accidentally shot someone when a famous person accidentally shoots someone.", "What’s the difference about “whataboutism” and pointing out “hypocrisy”? I’m assuming when the Left has criticism, It’s called “hypocrisy” but when the right has criticism it’s labeled “whataboutism”", "The words pigeon and dove refer to the same birds from different languages before the words came to the US, colloquially however, people usually say dove to refer to smaller members of that family. \n\nNot taking any sides, and I know not everyone can know everything, just wanted to share some information.", "That was the best thing about it", "He didn't fire the gun at anyone, it was a misfire when being pulled from the holster.", "Ok, from the thumbnail, I thought the image was going to be ExplodingHead.gif.", "Source on that? This is the first I've heard that.", "Link?", "Darth Sidious", "There's plenty of sources on it misfiring, and that it misfired a day or two before. \n\n\nhttps://news.yahoo.com/alec-baldwin-misfire-wasnt-first-023600156.html", "Where's the source that it was discharged while unholstering?", "Oh shit, yeah that hasn't been released that I can see. Just what my coordinator told me, he knows Allan the stunt coordinator on that production. Guess it's anecdotal for now.", "The left joked about this for years and they still do. Alec Baldwin’s killing will be memory holed shortly and forgotten.", "Not even a joke just true and hilarious.", "Crazy, I didn't know Alec Baldwin is a politician.", "Muh whatabout Dick Cheney peppering a guy with birdshot \n\nConservitard owned 😎", "That's valid", "People who don\"t want organized crime bosses angry at them.", "Maybe it's because the person didn't die", "Im sorry, but if you cant hack the easy consept of not shooting when you dont have clear field of fire you have no business hunting.", "I wonder if people also remember that after this incident [the guy who go shot actually did a press conference where HE apologised to Cheney for this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcFZgWqaMfM)", "I was visiting Italy at the time and they were blown away that this had happened. And that's saying a lot: Italy isn't exactly known for it's calm and collected political history.", "This is a strangely worded post haha", "imagine articulating your point without whataboutisms", "It’s blocked for me in OP’s link but I think* this is it:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/5WmnnALO-DE", "Holy fuck do you have any functional brain cells. I swear you fucking clowns belong in a circus.", "When my buddy was an emt. They had a magnet for when people got shot with steel birdshot.", "> What the hell did that friend ever do to you?\n\nThat friends name? Dick Cheney.", "Accurate representation of what happened: https://youtu.be/MC9PTsDbN1I", "\\>Person with the gun\n\nKey difference here numbnuts. Baldwin didn't have a gun. He had a prop.\n\nLike the addage 'dont run with knives', if I think and am supposed to be holding a piece of cardboard drawn like a knife but some twat gave me an actual machette it's not my fault if I run with it.", ">\tThat's the stupidest take I've seen ~~on this whole story~~.\n\nEven with all the antivax bs going around I still seriously didn’t think anyone could be this dumb. If this person’s vote really counts as much as mine I’m extremely concerned for the future of the human race.", "I was going to say that at first, but I've seen some pretty stupid takes. Like, 3rd grade dropout stupid.", "Nobody needs to hunt doves, leave them the fuck alone.", "The prop was a real gun though. Apparently my first sentence doesn’t make it clear I think the people piling on Baldwin are idiots and they are using it to push their BS gun rights message. What happened on that movie set was a systemic failure of safety that started way before he was handed the revolver.", "How have the Americans turned an actor accidentally killing someone with a prop gun into a political shitfight?\n\nCan't we all agree the event the other day was tragic, and this story (being like the only other high profile accidental shooting I can think of) is absolutely fucking hilarious? Then we just move on with life?", "I agree the Baldwin incident was an issue of safety procedures, but the the misfire had to also be due to unsafe gun handling practices by Baldwin. Guns don't go off on their own and his finger shouldn't have been on the trigger till he was ready to \"shoot\". \n\nI would also doubt the holster part as the people were both shot in their upper body which wouldn't be easy to do with the angles of pulling from a holster. The angle implies the gun was raised and pointed out.", "I assume this has turned political because the actor in question is Alec Baldwin. Baldwin is well known for playing Trump on snl and I believe he's outspoken when it comes to politics. Could be wrong about that last part, either way if it was Keanu I'm quite sure the reception would be different.", "This internet tacticool mantra stuff applies differently in different circumstances. If someone leaped out into the range at a firing range you couldn't really blame people shooting at targets for hitting them. The parent comment explained very clearly the special circumstances of bird hunting. Dunno why you're trying to farm some points with this dumb comment.", "Nerf lawyers.", "Do you have any clue of what actually happened?\n\nI’m really curious what gun safety rules you think Alec personally disregarded that caused this womens death.\n\nThere were a couple of crucial mistakes made on set causing a live round to be lodged in the barrel (according to the latest findings), but the responsability for preparing and inspecting firearms on set lies on the propmaster or armorer, not the actor.", ">the person with the gun is ultimately responsible for ensuring a weapon is not fired towards a person\n\nand your comment is donvoted to hell... I swear to god our species is doomed.", "I believe whataboutism is typically bringing up a subject that is unrelated or related only superficially as a response to an argument or question that is too difficult to answer normally. \n\nThis post for example shares very little in common with the situation that happened on the set of Rust other than an accidental shooting. A person hunting with a friend, while knowing what kind of gun they have and the ammunition inside it is completely different from the multitudes of bad decisions that led to an actor fatally wounding a crew member on a movie set.", "The man was hit with birdshot pellets, nobody died, Cheney was the vice president of the United States and the government downplayed the severity of the accident, to this day Cheney has never apologized for it, and the guy who was shot... apologized to HIM.\n\nTHESE ARE NOT EQUAL STORIES! You cannot fairly compare them!", "The guy was a political lobbyist, so yeah, that's the kind of person who'd be shameless enough to apologize for being shot in the face by a drunk Dick. Probably not even the most humiliating or untruthful thing he'd done or said that week.", "Cheney also blocked the police having access to him for 19 hours after the shooting, and had been drinking according to sources. So, there's a good likelihood that he knew he'd be given a blood alcohol test and show up as drunk in it. That's obstruction of justice in an investigation of what could be an assault with a deadly weapon. Which is a felony. Which is an impeachable offense.", "Was it at all similar in texture to the pulp Cheney turned the right side of the 78 year old man's face into?", "That is the joke. The joke is reacting to Dick shooting his load in someone's face with the same BS the Bush administration used to justify invading Iraq. \n\nDick going off prematurely in a guy's face is just an observed fact. Tying it into another ill-advised non-consensual penetration is what makes it a joke.", "> I would also doubt the holster part as the people were both shot in their upper body which wouldn't be easy to do with the angles of pulling from a holster. The angle implies the gun was raised and pointed out.\n\n\nIt's a western, generally a draw from the hip is a very common trope. They were doing a screen test with a hip draw. Most likely with the gun towards the camera. And I can almost guarantee they were most definitely sitting on chairs or leaned over looking at the monitors. All of his safety precautions told him it was a cold gun and safe to use, people's whose jobs are literally to make sure this doesn't happen failed completely, armourer, prop master and the AD. \n\n\nApparently through the film grapevine I've heard that the gun was taken from set and brought out on a quick \"hunting trip\", and that's how the live round ended up in the gun. We'll see what comes of it.", "I shot like 40 today, they’re fucking delicious", "A live round could easily refer to a blank.", "There's Blank, Dummies, and Live. \n\nIn blanks there's an explosive, but they don't use a projectile. Dummy rounds contain no explosive charge. And a live round is one with an explosive and a projectile.\n\n\nA single live round was shot.", "Not available from my location? wft? that's racist you mofos!", "Dude they were hunting farm raised quail that you basically have to kick to get them to move. \n\nAlso rules #2 and #4\n\n>\\#2 Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy. \n\\#4 Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it.", ">Nobody needs to hunt doves\n\nActually where I live there are two species of Doves. The native ones and an introduced one that has spread into our area, It's open season on the introduced one.", "Big difference between buckshot and birdshot for what it’s worth, if it was buckshot he’d be dead before his body hit the ground.", "Literally everything is political, is gotten exhausting and idk why anyone even bothers at this point. Nothing is going to be accomplished arguing politics online. I have to believe it’s mostly pretty young people even bothering", "Look this is a great rule for the internet and the gun range, but bird hunting is a whole other kettle of fish, you have to be able to react and move fast.", "The incident is described in Dick Cheneys autobiography \"How To Shoot Friends And Interrogate People\"", "What do you think about hunting pigeons?", "He was told the gun was a prop and not able to fire", "Bullshit. It's a kettle of birds. Fish are sea things. Birds are ground and air things that sometimes visit the sea.", "I’m sorry but if you can’t hack the easy concept of not breaking formation and moving into a live fire range you have no business hunting.", "Because nuance is dead. That's why. If it's not black and white, you're being manipulative or something. It's just reddit being stupid.", "I don't think you're an asshole for shooting doves, but I do think you're an asshole for trying to rub it in someone's face for no other reason than to antagonise them.", "What if I told you they were the same thing?", "\"Live Round\" on a movie set refers to any of those.", "I just spent a couple minutes looking for that! \n\nI was a kid at the time and I had no idea who the comedian was until my mother told me, and since then I have never watched any of his content but I remember the name. \n\nIf anybody can find that video I would greatly appreciate it. There's a very long video on YouTube showing the White House press conference or whatever from that year where apparently Lewis Black did stand up comedy, but I'm not sure if that was the event where he gave these jokes. \n\nMy strongest memory from that show was >!when he made an allegory to the troop movements in the middle east where he pretended to shoot quail as though he was the US army. Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, spins 90 degrees IRAN!<", "I'm well aware. I was setting him up for a trap.", "\"Live round\" does not mean any of those three, that would be terrible safety procedure to have one term mean three different things. The terms used are \"cold\" or \"hot\" on whether it's loaded or not. And then they say \"Dummy\" or \"Blank\", but they never say \"Live\" because live rounds should never be near a set ever. I've been working in film since 2008, I know armourers and prop masters, they're very clear on their terminology.", "I dont think \"birds fast\" is a good enough excuse for shooting someone in the head really. That requires at least some lapse in concentration", "Yup. This is people's feeble attempt to excuse Baldwin.\n\nCheney followed safety protocols. Gun guy - did all the right things. Guy did wrong, stepped in the line of fire.\n\nBaldwin did everything wrong - safety protocols were ignored by scrubs Baldwin hired.\n\nLeftist reaction - \"Cheney did wrong!\"", "What a dumb way to excuse a man getting shot in the face.", "Squab use just a fancy French name for pigeon. It's not like you're eating New York pigeons though. It's not any more weird than eating a chicken.", "Look, Baldwin did the wrong thing - he ignored safety protocols, and the scrubs he hired ignored safety protocols.\n\nCheney did the right thing - followed all safety protocols. The guy stepped into the line of fire. He apologized because he was wrong, did the wrong thing.\n\nYou can stomp your feet and hold your breath, but that's the reality of the two situations.", "No pressure needed. The guy was a lobbyist and needed Cheney's good will.", "Apparently gun rules change depending on who is doin the shooting.", "They’ll keep concern trolling. The real reason is because he spent the last 4 years making fun of their Dear Leader.", "It's true since cops don't follow any of the basic firearm safety rules.", "Essentially every discussion I've seen about this has said that the reference to \"live rounds\" in the report could be about any of the three, but if you say so I'll take your word for it.\n\nAs for never having live rounds near a set ever, I've seen a few articles now where people in the industry explain that live rounds are often used to test-fire guns for period piece movies due to the issues with finding revolvers and the like that only fire blanks.\n\n[https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-business-arts-and-entertainment-new-mexico-movies-2079a865611116a7301f5d755ac4ca0c](https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-business-arts-and-entertainment-new-mexico-movies-2079a865611116a7301f5d755ac4ca0c)\n\nThe people in question in charge of the safety of the firearms were replacements for the normal crew, who had been fired previously due to displaying pro-union feelings. Maybe they weren't trained.", "What kind of an asshole hunts doves", "Don't point a weapon at people. In almost any scene where a gun is fired at a person they are actually never being aimed at and it is a camera trick. Blanks can be deadly at close range. I am waiting to hear the final verdict on what happened though. This whole thing sucks. And while I do not like Alec as a person, I feel fucking awful for him. I hope he can find peace in this life after having been part of this.", "Both would suck, but if you really feel this way...well, you are committed at least.", "They clearly follow #2. They’re just good with destroying whatever.", "I haven't seen a single parson talking about gun rights regarding Baldwin, just a bunch of entertainers and staff demanding safer sets in general.", "Feels to me to be someone hearing about the Baldwin story and then going down a rabbit hole of other accidental-shooting-related media.", "That sweet sweet whataboutism, but its fine this time.", "I dunno. If I were to put my car next to a lion, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.", "Random Halo fact time:\n\nIn Halo 3, there was originally a medal for killing a teammate. Jeff Steitzer, the multiplayer announcer, actually recorded the line \"Cheneymaina!!\". It was cut before launch.\n\n\nA clip of Steitzer saying the phrase can be found here: https://youtu.be/aiajRBb-nAo", "What people call whataboutism is context. In this case, it's accurate. The guy who stepped into the line of fire with Cheney is the same as Baldwin - don't follow safety protocols, bad things happen.", "The guns are test fired at a range, not on set. It's to ensure they're in proper working condition, you don't want a blank doing a backfire and exploding in your hand. And yeah older guns have to be thoroughly tested beforehand with live rounds for the same reasons. \n\n\nYeah the armourer was replaced, by someone who was definitely green, she had only been an armourer on one other movie, but she is the daughter of a well known armourer Thell Reed. The AD Dave Halls, should've caught this without issue, he's the one who yelled \"Cold gun\". He's been in the industry a long time.", "Probably because the actor is a huge proponent of gun control.", "but what about using them as a crutch when you don't have any other valid points.", "But like, what does that have to do with it? It's a terrible tragedy that has nothing to do with politics. They're filming a movie, he wasn't out hunting with his mates or anything.", "You're a sick person.", "A well known and vocal proponent of gun control shot and killed someone. It seems obvious to me why it immediately devolved into politics.", "some say it was his lawyer Harry Whittington who stated \n>hold ma beer and watch me headbutt Cheneys shot to make him miss his mark and look like a goddamn fool!", "Well yeah, if he was using a real gun. He was filming a movie using a prop gun (not the right term but whatever), if anything it would be a validation of his beliefs?", "The ranch is owned by my maternal, adoptive grandmother's uncle.", "Ok dick", "A rock dove is what you would commonly call a pigeon", "You don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s ok, just don’t act like you do tho.\n\nEdit: love the downvotes from people who have obviously never hunted birds. The guy got shot in the face because he’s the one that fucked up, not Cheney. If you had to pause to wonder what’s behind the muzzle every time you were tracking a bird, you’d never hit anything ever.", "From what I understand he was the one who broke safety protocol, not Cheney. I'm not trying to defend either, but context matters.", "Excuse Baldwin? Scrubs he hired? \n\nI don't love Baldwin myself but this wasn't Baldwin's fault no matter how you slice it. Even as a producer, he didn't directly hire the people who fucked up. He unlikely broke any safety protocol himself. I work in film, specifically in props. What do you think was his fault? Sounds like you're just blaming him because he's liberal and you don't like that.\n\nEdit: never mind. Just glanced at your profile. If I'd seen that first, I never would have engaged with you.", "Was the guy wrong to step out of line yes but ultimately the guy holding the fun is responsible for what they shoot", "Did you even read the whole comment chain? It's like 2 comments long.", "Did you even read the whole comment chain? It's like 2 comments long.", "Any mirror for those of us outside north America?", "Ouch", "Well this is reddit and Cheney is a big ole meany so of course its his fault!!! Nice face mask in your avi too!", "Which is why there’s a firing line at gun ranges and you don’t cross said line when flushing birds.\n\nThere’s heavy cover where birds are, and there’s often no clear line-of-sight for the full trajectory of your projectile. To compensate, you establish that no one is in that area by respecting the set firing line. That way, you know your target and that no one following your hunting rules could possibly be in the line of fire.", "I was just about to ask this, didn’t the guy that got blasted end up apologizing for some reason 😂", "How did this person get shot if it wasn’t a real gun?\n\nI’m sure many will view this incident as validation for their gun control beliefs. Pro-gun people see it as validation in their beliefs that gun control proponents don’t understand what they want to ban. \n\nUnrelated to this incident, I personally dislike that gun control proponents like him go on to profit off the glamorization of gun violence. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Atticus says something to the effect of…’I don’t want you to get the idea that a hero is someone with a gun in their hand…’", "Probably the most Americans thing ever, hadn't heard of this before lol\n\nNot American, have heard of Cheney references but not this", "OK fair enough I was picturing the white wedding ones. I've also never heard of eating dove/pigeon but apparently it is a thing. Never mind me.", "I’ve never hunted but I’ve shot quite a bit of targets and this just feels like a simple safety rule that benefits everyone. \n\nDefinitely don’t think anyone shot in the face should have to apologize for the accident though", "Oh such an interesting hot take. Cheney was the VP and held himself out as the uber national security expert (post 9/11 lol). Baldwin is a fucking actor. Cheney shot an old man in the face with birdshot. Baldwin killed someone in a horrible accident. Otherwise it's totally the same thing", "Humans do have their limits on hand eye coordination reaction times. Some more than others", "There’s a lot of information going around but from what I’ve read the shot was supposed to be directed towards the camera (where the cinematographer must have been) so it doesn’t seem like Alec Baldwin fired the gun in an uninteded direction like you’re implying.\n\nBut of course everything is still a bit unclear and up for debate at this point.", "I honestly blame the low shooting experience requirements for police here. I believe to qualify, an officer only has to shoot 50 rounds per year, which is basically one box and a short trip to a range.\n\nI shot with police on a police range while in college. Their accuracy legitimately scared me, but range rules were followed and the range officer was good at keeping things safe.", "Exactly, it's like blaming a race car driver for running over someone that snuck on to the track for a better view. \n\nA controlled area is established precisely because the activity isn't possible with the standard safety rules, so you establish additional rules on top of the standard rules to ensure the dangerous activity is done as safe as possible. Ever notice the additional rules above and beyond the 4 Rules when you go to a gun range? If you break those additional extreme safety rules you are the one at fault wether you ran out on to a racetrack or moved in front of the firing line for a better shot.", "Even while being in the wrong, a public apology for getting shot in a hunting accident seems a bit much. I’m sure he learned his lesson", "You obviously don't hunt", "For typical hunting yes, but when hunting poultry they're so quick and you track them so quick that you don't have time to assess behind. Hence why there's hunting group protocols so people know who is where. \n\nAlso note it's not like they don't look around the area either. Just when lining up a bird you can't track it and assess behind it at the same time well", "Obviously no bird hunters in this sub", "My understanding is that when a shot is supposed to aim at camera it is started and then noone is on it for that part of filming. But as I said. I am waiting until the investigation ends.", "Grew up in South Dakota. Hunted Pheasant, Sage Brush, Partridge, Ducks, and Geese. The idea that you wouldn't hit anything if you made sure your muzzle is clear is utterly ridiculous.", "That rocks. Do it gain Dick!", "[The Halo voiceover guy wanted to include “CHENEYMANIA!” when you do a teamkill.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiajRBb-nAo)", "Everyone in the US would revolt over \"gun control laws\", but if it's anything like up here in Canada it just means everyone learns basic gun safety and gets a background check before you buy all the guns you want. Get everyone on the same page about \"rules\" and \"safety procedures\".", "I don’t think it’s “look how bad your side is”. It’s more like, “check these hypocrites track record and you’ll see the hypocrisy”. \n\nFor me, a mother was killed due to negligence. That is everyone’s fault.", "That’s not what’s happening in Canada. I don’t think you actually know your current gun laws. \nGo talk to your Canadian brethren in r/guns", ">If you had to pause to wonder what’s behind the muzzle every time you were tracking a bird, you’d never hit anything ever.\n\nWhen I was in the infantry I remember all the people I shot in the face because I was tracking a fast moving object with my rifle and they happened to be slightly out of line. /s\n\nBut seriously, WTF? You have lots of peripheral vision when you're shooting a shotgun. There's no reason you can't see someone in time to avoid taking the shot.\n\nI'm not saying Cheney did it deliberately, but it still shouldn't have happened.", "Reddit must protect their favorite celebrities at all cost.", "For a brief moment, Aaron Burr’s status as the only sitting Vice President to kill a man appeared in jeopardy.", "Dick Cheney may very well be the worst thing to happen to the states but all these mentions feel very much like an effort to downplay Alec Baldwin murdering a cinematographer", "He's talking about the hunt that Cheney was on. It was a rich guy hunt. They wanted to shoot shit, and they didn't want it to be particularly hard.\n\nI'm pretty sure that the VP wasn't planning on cooking the birds he shot that day, just like your friend in Central Texas aren't drinking with lobbyists while they hunt. It was all for sport.", "Rules 2 and 4 are incomplete and hard to follow when tracking a fast moving target, that's why there are additional safety practices in bird hunting like standing in a line.\n\nThe rules of gun safety are good ones, but they are heavily adapted towards certain kinds of shooting-- range shooting, keeping a gun at home for \"self defense\", etc. \n\nI think Dick Cheney is an evil man who has done a lot of damage to our republic, but the guy getting shot was the guys fault.", "Whataboutisim", "I think its more about the metaphor for invading Iraq because Colin Powell just died.", "Ya, it's resurfacing online because Alec Baldwin criticized Cheney for the shooting, OP brought it up in bad taste tbh\n\nhttps://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1451400977303572485", "r/confidentlyincorrect", "What part is incorrect? It took me 2 afternoon courses to get my restricted PAL and I can buy almost any gun that is legal for a civilian to own in the country (there are a few grandfathered prohibited firearms licenses that some people hold, but it's very rare).", "Ok now post that time when baldwin killed a woman cause he's a dumbass who's not careful with guns", "I have my restricted PAL. Took me 2 afternoons and 2 short (trivial) tests about gun safety and barring the rare prohibited firearms exception that a few people hold from back in the day, I can own any firearm that is legal for civilians to own. \n\nWhat am I missing? The fact we have prohibited firearms is no different from the US. The fact there are guns that civilians basically can't legally possess isn't a Canada only thing. The difference between Canada and the US is a) the guns on that list and b) the fact you have to take a safety course first to be allowed to buy anything not on the list.", "Do people eat doves?", "Scrolling through that website is basically like being shot in the face.", "r/confidentlyincorrect", "I'm a proud unventilated sheep", "exactly, you can't buy ALL the guns you want, you can buy some. not saying it's a bad system just that it's not like you can buy even close to what you can get in the states, plus magazine sizes are restricted. there are a LOT of stupid restrictions that are political rather than practical.", "Alec baldwin lol", "Oh he’s not? Then why did conservatives immediately make it a political thing? Seems pretty weird to do if he’s not a politician like you say.\n\nThe Cheney relevance is just a response to the partisan bullshit as a point of the hypocrisy from the vocal conservatives.", "Ah okay, every time I hear people in the us yelling about \"gun control\" it's related to having a gun license to own certain guns, rather than banning them outright. I agree we have some dumb rules around what guns are classified as Prohibited up here. And ammunition (any incendiary round under 15mm is Prohibited, but anything larger than 15mm is open season...)", "Another fun fact: Some humans find more dangerous, more fun.", "He failed to look at the rounds loaded in the gun.", "Lol I meant cat. Was late at night.", "https://www.wideopenspaces.com/9-best-dove-recipes-youve-never-heard-pics/", "What's your point though? Just flexin' your observation skills?", "What if you were at the gun range, unloading into a target, and someone ran across the range through your path of fire? That your fault too? What if someone was hiding behind your target? Your fault too?\n\nSome activities have modified rules, there is no one set of gun handling rules that trumps all others.", "I think the reason conservatives are talking about the Baldwin killing at all is because Alec has been very vocal about gun control in the past, then he ends up killing someone out of ignorance of gun safety. Its the ultimate irony.", "Yeah, pretty much. Reddit has been turned into a gigantic propaganda machine and I like to call it out where I see it.", "The shooter's responsibility is entirely abdicated?\n\nC'mon now", "I 'member", "Alec Baldwin still has a higher body count.", "That's just enough degrees of separation where I can still say hey thats kinda neat.", "I found out that it happened because my friend in Belgrade IMed me \"Dick Cheney just shot a man\" and then we spent the next thirty minutes talking about how even after a devastating war, US politicians still manage to outdo the ones where she lives.", "flashback to when someone was shot in the face.", "Do you think it’s the actors responsibility to inspect and be able tell live and blank rounds apart?", "It happens. I just got a chuckle from your typo, that's all :p", "I would like to know how many of you apologists would go hunting birds with Dick Cheney.", "I would like to know how many of you apologists would go hunting birds with Dick Cheney.", "Video doesn't load\n\nedit: mirror https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WmnnALO-DE", "“I’m really sorry that happened to you.” -the guy that Dick Cheney shot in the face", "Well, the first time a vice president shot someone in the face was over 200 years ago, and they just made a Broadway musical about that one. Maybe Cheney will get his own musical in another 180 years?", "How was he ignorant of gun safety? This was a fuckup of the weapons master on the movie set.", "This is reddit so you pretty well don't exist \n\nBefore down votes come in, I'm joking", "Propaganda?\n\nI was making fun of you because of how blatantly obvious your observation was.", "Yes. They are very obviously different. I pasted links to images of both last night.", "Gotta go, driving my Ocelot to the store.", "Of course the weapon/prop master fucked up, but as a responsible gun owner it's ingrained in my nature to 100% check my weapon and rounds. \n\nI know they're to trust the prop master, but being the person actually pulling the trigger I'd always verify if the chambered round (and subsequent magazine) was in fact blanks. I think the vast majority of responsible gun owners would as well.", "Hello /u/EastGlencoe, \r\n\r\nThank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it is being removed due to the following reason(s): \r\n\r\n- Rule #1 Political videos—including content relating to [social issues which have a clear political element](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1_-_no_politics)—should be submitted to /r/PoliticalVideo. This includes submissions of current or recent political figures in any context, satire/political-comedy, and posts on political topics from within the last 10 years.\r\n\r\nConsider submitting this type of content to /r/PoliticalVideo.\r\n\r\n\r\nFor a more detailed explanation about our no politics rule, see the [wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1_-_no_politics).\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThank you for understanding.", "So an expert inspects the gun, tells the actor it’s fine, but you then blame the actor who’s not an expert for not knowing better than the actual expert?\n\nDoes that sound about right?", "I’ve had dove", "Yes, if you remove all context from the situation, that would be true. But if someone uses their brain, just a moment, they would consider the numerous safety protocols that must've been neglecticed for a situation like that to occur. It's fucked up to blame the actor, there are people on a film set who's job is to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen. But sure, actor said thing I don't like, let's blame him for it.", "The \"expert\" was obviously not an expert based on the two other negligent discharges reported before this shooting. \nAnd standard gun safety says you check yourself. \nI am not saying he is solely responsible. The rush to obsolve him of responsibility is odd.", "What part of what I said isn’t true regardless of context? \n\n>\tIt's fucked up to blame the actor, there are people on a film set who's job is to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen. But sure, actor said thing I don't like, let's blame him for it.\n\nI don’t really think I was talking about assigning blame. The question was why this has been politicized.", "AHAHAHAHA! I remember when Ole W. said that! And I'm reminded everytime I listen to the podcast \"Abe Lincoln's Top Hat\" by my fave dudes on LPOTL", "But the rush to condemn is fine?", "What rush to condemn?\nHe is the shooter.", "Here's a good vid released by a prop master on it. \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1X5L-AufQ&t=174s", "I’m not even gonna bother with the obvious irony of that statement…", "Can confirm. It’s delicious. We wrap it in Bacon with a slice of jalapeño and some cream cheese.", "Part of their accuracy issues are also due to many jurisdictions having a heavy trigger pull, like even 15 pounds sometimes. I can see why they have that though with how eager cops are to pull their gun.", "Glad to see all your comments keep getting downvoted", "Ha, okay chief.", "Good people, honest people apologize when they made a mistake. If someone runs a red light to crash into your car, him getting hurt doesn't mean he wasn't in the wrong.\n\nSomeone broke rules to walk in the line of fire during a hunt. Therefore, it was OK for Alec to break rules, violate safety procedures which resulted in one dead and one injured.\n\nNope.", "Baldwin is the producer. They fired union people, hired lesser trained non union people. Those new people didn't follow safety procedures.\n\nThe Producer is in charge, the boss. Do you think he had no part in the decision to hire new people, to speed up production?", "Why are you going on about the Baldwin scenario when I’m discussing the Cheney scenario? \n\nYour example is terrible because getting in a car crash directly inconveniences or potentially injures another person. Me getting shot because I didn’t follow a rule doesn’t really do much but hurt me. I’m not apologizing for a mistake that only hurt myself and I think it’s ridiculous to expect that of someone", "I work on set everyday. I know exactly how it works. \n\nNo, Baldwin almost certainly wouldn't have any input on hiring/firing. The crew members quit, they weren't fired. I haven't heard they brought in non-union workers but that's virtually impossible to be true. \n\nHow much of this are you just making up? All just because you're wrong about politics.\n\nEdit: Holy shit, your post history. You tackled this with the exact same kind of undeserved confidence you tackle everything else with. You have strong opinions about a LOT of things you don't understand at all. You're wrong about virtually everything you believe. You're at the level of a child on basically everything you talk endlessly about. Your entire worldview would be hilarious if there weren't so many of you affecting everyone else. \n\nSeriously, you're a moron. A really overconfident moron that falls for the most obvious hoaxes, gags, and tricks. I hope you're ab actual child or elderly person. The world is unlikely that lucky.", "In this hunt the birds were held in a cage and delivered via a Suburban ahead of the hunters. The cage with the birds were in is flipped upside down. The bottom of the cage is removed right after the cage is flipped. The confused birds, with clipped wings, try and fly away. That is the method this hunt used. Akin to shooting fish in a barrel. I saw the lawyer that Cheney shot about eight weeks later at Congress Ave and eighth street. He had recovered. BTW he is very tall.", "https://editorials24.com/2021/10/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/\n\n\"Some sort of settlement was apparently reached because the Times said the workers — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — later spent about an hour setting up their gear. But at some point, several nonunion workers reportedly showed up to replace them and a member of the production staff ordered the union crew to leave.\"\n\nThe union workers originally walked off because of brutal working conditions and unsafe conditions.\n\nHoly Shit - are you making this up? My post history of truth makes facts not facts because you like Baldwin?\n\nBaldwin wouldn't say \"you're fired\". That's true. Why is anti gun Baldwin making a movie in which his character uses a gun?", "You think Cheney was happy he shot someone? You think someone hunting wants to shoot a person, wants to have someone walk in front of the gun as the hunter shoots?\n\nYou brought up Cheney because of the Baldwin situation.", "This entire post is about Cheney….. sure… i brought it up. \n\nYou’re not changing my mind. Apologizing doesn’t get rid of the fact that any of this happened (as we can CLEARLY SEE YEARS LATER). “I’m so incredibly sorry for getting shot in the face” is a ridiculous thing to apologize about.\n\nEdit; shit, I’ve hurt people on accident (their fault) and I would never expect them to apologize.", "Ffs. You're an idiot and it has nothing to do with Baldwin. It has to do with your views on virtually everything. You believe in things that aren't real while you don't believe in things that are. It's embarrassing. \n\nAgain, they weren't fired. You were wrong. While anything is possible, I'd bet a LOT of money that the \"source\" is wrong about the non-union crew as well. That's not how sets work. We don't just bring in non-union crews to replace union members, ESPECIALLY in that department. I work in props. Whoever wrote this article definitely never has. Obviously, nor have you or you wouldn't be spouting about any of this. \n\nI just quit a production over safety too. It wasn't the celebrity producer's fault, without a doubt. They don't hire people, the line producer hires heads of departments and those heads hire their crews. And no one can bring a non-union crew in on a union show. \n\nIt's a movie, you simple minded twat. You can be antiwar and make a war movie. You can be antidrug and make a drug movie. Same works with novels, songs, and all art. I don't expect you to io understand that though. Because you're an idiot. Movies aren't why there's violence, I'm just assuming you believe otherwise because you fall for bullshit.", ">You don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s ok, just don’t act like you do tho.\n\nI havent acted like I know anything. I'm saying that aiming at an animal is no excuser for shooting someone in the head. Maybe pay attention if you're gnna swing around a gun.\n\nIt's always funny how quickly you fools get so upset you forget how to read. Or maybe you're just really stupid in general.", "I kinda remember there being an additional scene to this, I think it was Colbert \"on location\" with a hunting rifle talking about something or other and it ends with him accidentally flipping around and shooting the sound guy in the face", "I will try and see if I recorded the show that demonstrated the flipping of the cages. A reporter went to hunting company and they led him through the hunting procedure." ]	296	videos	Flashback to when VP Cheney Shot a Dude in the Face
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qegobe/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qegobe/deleted_by_user/	[ "Context:\n\nI was reading this article [https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/us/blind-football-quarterback-modesto-raiders/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/us/blind-football-quarterback-modesto-raiders/index.html) and almost laughed to myself at how good can this kid be not being able to see anything. It's going to be a heart warming story but I will see some awful footage, right?\n\nWrong! It blows my mind how he can drop a dime into his WR hands while being blind. Big props to his parents, the coach that gave him a shot, and most importantly to Jasen Bracy, the kid in the video. \n\nHere's his youtube: \n\n&#x200B;\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCE9WnkB8-qc80s4ekk7iDg", "[Playing baseball too!](https://youtu.be/TaVFkye6iVg)", "what is this sensationalist hot garbage?" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05vluFBdtr8	/r/videos/comments/qeh10u/six_remarkable_parallels_between_the_fake_wmd/	[ "Free Hong Kong", "Taiwan is a real country", "Why is this guy shilling for China so hard?", "Deep in the hundred acre wood\nWhere Christopher Robin plays\nYou will find the enchanted neighbourhood\nOf Christopher's childhood days\nA donkey named Eeyore is his friend\nAnd Kanga and little Roo\nThere's Rabbit and Piglet\nAnd there's Owl\nBut most of all Winnie the Pooh\n\nWinnie the Pooh\nWinnie the Pooh\nTubby little cubby all stuffed with fluff\nHe's Winnie the Pooh\nWinnie the Pooh\nWilly nilly silly old bear\n\nWinnie the Pooh\nWinnie the Pooh\nTubby little cubby all stuffed with fluff\nHe's Winnie the Pooh\nWinnie the Pooh\nWilly nilly silly old bear" ]	4	videos	Six remarkable parallels between the fake WMD story and the fake China narrative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7ZqZVunCb4	/r/videos/comments/qeh4wy/heilungs_krigsgaldr_a_modern_take_on_ancient/	[ "https://youtu.be/h1BsKIP4uYM?t=1627\n\nhere it is live", "Heilung calls their music 'amplified history'.", "And before someone asks. Yes, they play real bones - mostly from animals, but also a human forearm bone.\n\nThey stopped flying with their equipment and now ship it as cargo, since they got into trouble way too often and got sick of explaining what all the swords, spears and reindeer skinned drums are for." ]	3	videos	Heilung's Krigsgaldr: A modern take on ancient European music and culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edp_xjo-v_s	/r/videos/comments/qehkwo/simon_pegg_does_4_beatles_impressions_in_12/	[ "I'd be more impressed if he did all five Beatles impressions.", "Are we talking about Pete Best or Billy Preston?", "Yes", "I’d be very impressed if he did a Billy Preston.", "Now the question is where does Yoko live?", "I little town called Flatulence.", "Hot Fuzz sequel plz", "Bernard Purdie has also claimed to have played drums on a bunch of Beatles tracks.", "Would be lovely, but I would put money on Pegg, Frost, and Wright loving that its a one off never to be followed up.", "In the bin", "Apu was the fifth Beatle.", "Great trick although his John and Ringo were the strongest. Not quite sure the George one lands.", "Hot Fuzz and Shawn of the Dead crossover plzez.", "> Bernard Purdie\n\nYes, but the Beatles are some of the most recorded and historically detailed bands of all time (we know so much about when and where and how and who recorded with them for all of their music) and there is absolutely no evidence of Purdie's claim whatsoever besides him saying so, and tons of evidence that he made it up. Purdie is a great drummer so he doesn't really need to pad his resume. Not a single Beatle expert or historian backs up that claim.", "Or Andy White or Brian Epstein or George Martin or Stuart Sutcliffe or Derek Taylor or Neil Aspinall or Jimmie Nicol. Funny how many people could try to lay claim to that title.", "[I still love the version of this Shaun of the Dead scene done as Paul and John](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KVpCJCoRpo)", "I can't think of a single sequel those guys have made. I also can't think of a single thing those guys have made which I haven't at least enjoyed.\n\nI'm cool with them making whatever they would like.", "Had all of the Beatles pegged.", "Reminds me of the Get This boys trying to figure out the difference. RIP Marslando gone too soon", "[simon pegg and nick frost impersonating sean connery and michael caine](https://youtu.be/FYKZ23CbS4Q)", "I had four Beatles in my mouth when I was their groupie way back when", "Can't believe I've never seen this before. Thank you for posting this.", ">4 Beatles in the mouth trick\n\nPretty sure I saw that on Fear Factor", "That was a lot cooler than I was expecting", "A bit off topic, but when I was at Universal Studios in Florida (in the before times), I walked by their Fear Factor attraction. The barker out front said \"Why pay $12 dollars for a hot dog, when we'll feed you for free?\" I had no desire to go in, but I've always gotten a chuckle at that line.", "Loony bin", "DVD extras is a gold mine.\n\n[Funky Pete](https://youtu.be/iY7D6rKjoKM) is a favourite of mine.", "Peter Serafinowicz was signed up to provide voices for a Yellow Submarine remake but the project fell through before it got going.", "Hot Fuzz is a perfect story. It has a beginning, middle, and end. It's a complete story wrapped up in a self-contained package. \n\nThere's no need for a sequel. If there was more story to tell Wright and Pegg would have included it in the original.", "I can't believe we got Ray Park back as Darth Maul and yet lost Serafinowicz to Witwer.", "People like you are the reason why Hollywood is so shit right now.", "George Best", "Huh? The footballer?", "up her own ass", "3 good impressions and a very dodgy George lol", "Lol", "I'm just going to enjoy this like it's an entirely sincere post by a 72 year old lady.", "The Beatles live in your math, [just like Chrissy Knox.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdoTxtExOfY)", "Best is the funniest of them, because of that whole Best of the Beatles trick he did.", "I think George is the toughest one to pull off. The thing that made his voice stand out was the way he pronounced words that rhyme with \"there\" as \"thur\".", "\"Sure you were, Apu.\" Paul rolls eyes*", "I was 36 before I realized “Beatles” was a pun. \n\nI blame it on the fact their name was so ubiquitous I was super familiar with it at an age that was too young to even consider there might be a pun/joke, and when I was older, I was too familiar with it to question it.", "George seems hard, I was looking at an interview and it's such a specific tone.", "I read this expecting 4 impressions of beaGles...", "Great point. And his voice is vaguely similar to John’s so a lot of impressions struggle to differentiate it or else go too far in the other direction.", "To be fair, Witwer fucking crushed it.", "Paul II", "\"4 beatles in your mouth\" or\n\nHow the Beatles invented Porn", "I'm pretty sure that was the title of one of those videos you found behind the saloon doors at the back of video stores.", "I should watch it again tbh, it's always thrown me off and I don't think I've really evaluated it for what it is. Thanks for the tip.", "You called my bluff, I never achieved the dream of blowing all 4 Beatles", "Chingy vibes", "Let's not forget that Pegg is an asshole." ]	53	videos	Simon Pegg does 4 Beatles impressions in 12 seconds
https://youtu.be/elpAaZs_U9k	/r/videos/comments/qehztg/heres_a_vivid_demonstration_of_how_blanks_can_be/	[ "Shoulda shown this to Alec Baldwin two days ago!", "He should've known, but reddit seems insistent on absolving him of any blame.", "The prop master or armorer on the set is to blame, not the actor doing whatever he said was safe.", "If you're too stupid to even check to see if a pistol is cleared, you deserve whatever happens to you. Like that's fucking crazy dumb.", "Do you know what a squib is? Do you think Sigourney Weaver does? Anthony Hopkins? Natalie Portman when she was twelve? All these people should have breaking down their guns before a scene?", "Thanks, Capt. Hindsight", "I love him tho!", "That's kinda what it comes down to here lol", "This is beyond satire.", "The pistol was intended to have a live round (a blank, but it may have been accidentally loaded with a real round) in it. Clearing it would've defeated the purpose of the scene. Someone fucked up and gave him a hot gun.", "The difference is profound. The big question here is why so many people on reddit seem so driven to defend him. Have you ever wondered why that is?", "Are you implying this is political? The dude didn't do anything wrong. There are countless movies made where the armorer doesn't fuck up and nobody dies. The safety procedures involving firearms on movie sets are extremely rigorous. It's a terrible accident caused by one idiotic mistake. I don't place the blame on Baldwin, he did what thousands and thousands of others have done without incident, he trusted the armorer. \n\n\"Have you ever wondered why that is?\"\n\nYes, it's because people see it for what it is, a tragic mistake.", "So you're saying that a guy not doing his due diligence is...political? That's crazy.\n\nBro, you're a seasoned actor. Check the prop.", " first rule gun safety. one always check if it's loaded even if it was loaded or handled by somebody else. 2 they are not fucking toys. Any person that has adequately been trained in firearms should know those rules by heart but this is a Hollywood elitist we're talking about here so they're probably out of the realm of reality.", "Because paradoxically Reddit says celebrity worshiping is bad. but then starts worshiping celebrities look at how many Jack Black posts there are in r/videos. And by the sounds of it the prop guns seem like real guns.", "Have you ever seen a gun fired on tv or in a movie? They were loaded. They were supposed to be loaded. Everyone knew they were loaded. And it’s the prop master or armorer who is responsible for making sure they are handled safely while loaded. \n\nTry to keep up.", "Have you ever seen a gun fired on tv or in a movie? They were loaded. They were supposed to be loaded. Everyone knew they were loaded. And it’s the prop master or armorer who is responsible for making sure they are handled safely while loaded.\n\nTry to keep up.", "Try to keep it up with what? the fact that Alec Baldwin should have checked because he's the last person in line to use it? This is safety 101 never assumed somebody else done the job properly to begin with. That's how you end up with a murdered person and a director that was shot. They teach you this in every single conceivable safety thing that you are the last person in line. Safety doesn't stop by assuming somebody else did it correctly.", "Maybe because it wasn’t his fault?", "Check the prop that’s supposed to be loaded. Got it. \n\nYou know how dumb you sound, right?", "I’m far more afraid of liberal Hollywood actors than I am of blanks.", "That check would have gone like this:\n\nIs the gun loaded? Yes it is. Is it loaded with a blank that I can fire safely? I don’t have the expertise to know that, but the expert the production hired to make sure it’s safe says it is. \n\nNow what, genius?", "Are you serious a blank and a real round look completely different in fact you can probably end up checking it within a couple of seconds. If the news reports are to be believed these were not prop guns they were real guns firing blanks. Something that seems to be quite a recipe for disaster as we can attest because well we got one murdered person and shot director.. and besides Alec Baldwin ignored the number one rule of gun safety don't point at something that you do not want to end up being dead. Oh my God but wouldn't it be an issue if Alec Baldwin actually knew anything about gun safety which you figure he would be an actor. Now what genius.\n\nAs I said if you work any job construction or anything like that they always tell you safety ends with you not another person that says it's okay", "You’ve obviously never been on a film set with firearms.", "Interesting.", "Yeah and you've obviously never work the job where your safety is Paramount. you always double check. If it looks like a gun you double check. And once again by the sounds of it they were real guns they were not prop guns. Now I've actually heard that they've had issues on set before that incident and we'll see what comes of it but somebody wasn't doing their jobs and Alec Baldwin ended up paying the price for it which Alec Baldwin should have just double checked to begin with because like I said if it looks like a gun it's a real gun.", "This is your brain on reddit.", "No, you’ve obviously never been on set or you’d know how how ridiculous you sound.", "And once again he ignored the first fucking rule of gun safety. So go about your logic you never fired a gun before have you?", "I’ve both worked on a set with firearms and fired guns. Maybe you’d like to see my gun safe?", "Oh hell yes I'd love to I'm a gun nut. But something obviously went wrong on that set", "Agreed that something went wrong on that set. But it wasn’t Baldwin’s error. \n\nI know you will keep arguing that it was. That’s fine. But six months or so down the road when the results of the inevitable investigation are released, I want you to remember this moment. Because it’s going to say Baldwin wasn’t at fault.", "The only reason I'd argue with is because as a paranoid person I always double check my stuff at work. I never take the word of someone else that\"it's fine\"", "wtf? kinda to laughy and funny considering..", "Don’t click on this shit", "Portman is a bad example, her guardian should have, yes.", "So you’re saying someone other than the actor (Portman) who knows more about guns and gun safety should have cleared the weapons for her? Interesting point.", "Dude, the only smoothbrain in this thread is you.", "That's what a legal guardian would do in that case (as well). Yes.\n\n\nReddit thinks more checks is a bad thing yikes, especially when Baldwin is such an anti gun nut, you'd think he'd be a bit more cautious, maybe he could hire someone to check for him 😏\n\n\"Knows more about gun safety\" not in this case, double yikes. What a bad take 🤦‍♂️\n\n\n\nEdit: and the \"armourer isn't actually an armourer because of strikes due to working conditions...\" Oh how your take is soooooo fucking off piste.\n\nInteresting point you said?....", "> smoothbrain\n\nokay zoomer", "Lmao dude it’s not just the armorer. It has to be checked by multiple people before it touches the actor’s hand. People are trying to throw the armorer under the bus because they wanted to take short cuts, and don’t want to deal with the repercussions of taking the short cuts.", "Isn’t Baldwin part of the production? Wouldn’t this be his fault then by your logic?", "Ya I completely agree. Wether it be just the armorer or whoever else was responsible for ensuring the weapon was safe, Baldwin shouldn't be blamed. It isn't the actor's job to inspect the weapon. They have numerous other qualified, insured, experienced people that are paid to do that. This shouldn't have happened just like the other millions of times prop guns have been fired on movie sets. Someone, or someones, fucked up and didn't follow the established, tried and true, safety protocol.", "Regardless of what anyone or any document says, it is every single handler of a gun's responsibility to know EXACTLY what is or isn't in their gun. I don't care if it's an actor or the queen of England.", ">queen of England\n\nDid you mean the [Queen of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_United_Kingdom), the [Queen of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), the [Queen of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia), etc?\n\nThe last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Queen_of_Great_Britain) who, with the 1707 Acts of Union, dissolved the title of King/Queen of England.\n\n####FAQ\n\nIsn't she still also the Queen of England?\n\nThis is only as correct as calling her the Queen of London or Queen of Hull; she is the Queen of the place that these places are in, but the title doesn't exist.\n\nIs this bot monarchist?\n\nNo, just pedantic.\n\nI am a bot and this action was performed automatically.", "A live round in the context of filming is a loaded blank. There was no real bullets on set", "No. Here, [this](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/logic) this might help.", "He did, and saw it was loaded with a round, which he was told was a blank/flash/squib round.\n\nSo again, not his fault, dumbass.", "Did you like his Trump impression? I heard he did it for the family.", "Do you only say stupid shit?", "I would've asked the Glengarry Glen Ross speech, personally.", "I love when people know they've been proven stupid, so they just act like they were trolling.", "Like Alec?", "Well that's okay even with all my downvotes I just learned that Alec was the main producer so he is in a lot of trouble. Reddit going to go into maximum celebrity worship mode soon", "On movie sets, even with “prop” guns you’re not supposed to aim them at people. You frame the shot, get it ready, start rolling, back away then start action. \n\nThis was a sloppily run production and a person paid with their life. \n\nBaldwin is more to blame in his position as producer than as the person who pulled the trigger.", "On movie sets, even with “prop” guns you’re not supposed to aim them at people. You frame the shot, get it ready, start rolling, back away then start action. \n\nThis was a sloppily run production and a person paid with their life. \n\nBaldwin is more to blame in his position as producer than as the person who pulled the trigger.", "On movie sets, even with “prop” guns you’re not supposed to aim them at people. You frame the shot, get it ready, start rolling, back away then start action. \n\nThis was a sloppily run production and a person paid with their life. \n\nBaldwin is more to blame in his position as producer than as the person who pulled the trigger.", "I agree with that last part. As an actor there is precedent for his innocence. If there is any evidence he was part of or aware they cut corners on safety he's fucked. And Jason Blum might be fucked too.", "The whole production is toast civilly. No way that movie gets made now. The budget was 6mm and the settlements going out will be larger than that. \n\nI think Baldwin might get hit in civil court individually as well but I doubt he catches a criminal case. Time will tell though.", "> On movie sets, even with “prop” guns you’re not supposed to aim them at people. You frame the shot, get it ready, start rolling, back away then start action.\n\nIt depends on the shot.\n\n> This was a sloppily run production and a person paid with their life.\n\nYup.\n\n> Baldwin is more to blame in his position as producer than as the person who pulled the trigger.\n\nFrom a legal perspective, maybe. But ultimately this was the propmaster/armorer's fault for not controlling who handled the weapon and how.", "Armorer/prop master has been charged already i believe. \n\nThis is going to turn into a circular firing squad of blame." ]	68	videos	Here's A Vivid Demonstration Of How Blanks Can Be Powerful Enough To Kill You
https://youtu.be/LVK2aMf7mqs	/r/videos/comments/qeid21/spaceballs_trailer_except_its_star_wars_ep9_music/	[ "almost looks legit. Loved the movie when it came out", "Thanks. First attempt at a fake trailer.", "My favorite movie! I saw it in theaters when it came out. This trailer edit is great! I got chills and a good laugh when helmet speaks. Good stuff.", "Thank you!", "The last star wars movie was horrible.", "Trailer music was hype though. But yeah. I can't watch it", "Awesome job!", "This works surprising well. One of my favorite memories is watching this with my Dad as a kid. Thanks!", "Not a single line of dialog, that's disappointing. Snotty... beam him down...\n\nhttps://youtu.be/AcY090XV284\n\nFavorite line...\n\nEven in the future nothing works!", "Lol I thought about editing in some more dialogue but I couldn't figure out how to make it more dramatic sounding. Program kept erroring out when I added effects to it. Might have another go at it another time." ]	10	videos	Spaceballs trailer except it's Star wars ep9 music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBRKGR5Mos	/r/videos/comments/qeiwji/traversable_wormhole_demo_rendered_in_real_time/	[ "This is cool as shit.\n\nIf you passed the event horizon of a black hole I thought you'd be on the inside of a sphere, so I'm surprised to see a single ball in the sky.\n\nOr is that circular view the predicted effect of the light traveling towards you from only one narrow direction due to the gravity sucking light from every other direction?", "There aren't a whole lot of things that scare me in online videos any more... I've watched a lot of horror and I'm used to it now. But there is something about the way the light is distorted around the wormhole that makes my whole body feel panic when he is getting close to it. Even just looking at it from a distance makes me want to turn away. Weird.", "I think what you are seeing is three-dimensional, but it looks 2d because the blackness of everything else kind of takes away the context our brains need to see objects as curved.", "I guess what throws me is the POV, you turn your head and look behind you what are you looking at?", "There's a scene in Another Life season 2 where a space ship passes through a worm hole, and I think they did a pretty good job of the graphics.", ">If you passed the event horizon of a black hole I thought you'd be on the inside of a sphere, so I'm surprised to see a single ball in the sky.\n\nImagine falling into a black hole but with your backside going in first so that you are watching where you came from.\n\nWhat path can light take to get to you? Well if the light is coming from the direction you came from it just has to go on the same path that you took. But what if light is coming from a different place? Let's say, on the other side of the black hole? It can't come from your backside, because it would never be able to make it past the black holes center and reach you. So for light on the back side of the black hole to reach you, it must first go around the black hole on the outside, and come back in at the same angle that you came in from.", "Second season, I haven't quite finished, has been better than the first. No spoilers please.\n\nAre you wrote, some great ideas, execution is a bit patchy.", "Why the assumption that the local side of a wormhole would bend spacetime the way a black hole does?\n\nThe [depiction of a wormhole in Interstellar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69EUgdj7lzI) was a sphere, as in this video, but with no distortion on the local side of the sphere.", "Scott Manly has a 360 degree traversable wormhole [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7e-1bRpweo) that you can pan around. He also tweaks the wormhole's parameter (mass, length, etc.), which affect how the wormhole looks.", "Horror films don't even scare me anymore, just stuff out in space.", "The Nothing.", "There's definitely something slightly panic-inducing about falling into that darkness..", "If you project a ray from the camera from the angles where it appears black, the rays just spiral inward.", "Very cool, goes to show you how we can exist in a higher dimension and be completely unaware of it\n\n\nSo my take is a wormhole is a sphere in space, that if you enter you exit in a different sphere of space, where the space distorts to infinity at the halfway point\n\nI would assume exiting the sphere would be difficult due to gravitational forces, but I guess if one side pulls the other side might push? (maybe not, but who knows!)", "It sounds like what you're experiencing is called Melanoheliophobia, which is the phobia for black holes.\n\nHere's an old post by someone who seemed to have experienced something similar to you: https://www.reddit.com/r/spaceengine/comments/4zvt83/fear_of_black_holes/", "There is clearly distortion depicted there.", "To me, it looks like the distortion is inside the sphere. It doesn't look like light bending around a black hole - where the distortion is outside the spherical event horizon.", "At 4:20 i see two giant red dicks on top of each other. Just wanted to share that with y'all", "[ Jump to 04:20 @ Wormhole demo (downloadable)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBRKGR5Mos&t=0h4m20s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Benderite Games, Video Popularity: 98.61%, Video Length: [13:57])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@04:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBRKGR5Mos&t=0h4m15s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "been in and out of black holes in vr, it's so lit. Just traveling the universe and having so much to see, and so much of nothing.", "I agree with your assessment. This is how I would explain the circle-of-starlight amidst a surrounding black field we saw. The \"black hole\" in this simulation is just implemented as a wormhole from a star-filled environment to a black lightless environment. When we see the whole circle of starlight getting small, we were outside the throat or past the event-horizon on the far side. If we were at the center singularity of the black hole, half our surround would be starry and half black (in this simulation). Since this simulation is more about wormholes than black holes, I think it punts on the behavior of light inside a black hole's event horizon as you approach or orbit the singularity or mass at the center.", "No, there's multiple strata to unpack here. The sphere you can detect is the event horizon and it's smaller than the openings in the disc of light swirling. The black hole itself is smaller still.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/zUyH3XhpLTo", "Very cool. I'm confused about what the throat size actually means.", "Thank you! I got a little bit of that as mentioned in my last sentence but I entirely missed the lights orbit/spiral creating the sphere effect. \n\nIt still bends my mind but I can grasp that concept" ]	26	videos	Traversable wormhole demo rendered in real time
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ceIMfE-qLtY&feature=youtu.be	/r/videos/comments/qej8e2/how_much_is_frank_reynolds_actually_worth_in/	[ "They estimate it to be $67,392,087.77. You're welcome.", "You’re a good man.", "Enough to keep those schmucks out of prison lol." ]	3	videos	How much is Frank Reynolds actually worth in Always Sunny? This video does a deep dive into Frank’s finances
https://youtu.be/JIXuo4fclcw	/r/videos/comments/qejjru/turns_out_gus_johnson_is_a_piece_of_shit_who/	[ "That's really messed up, holy shit", "Guy always gave me bad vibes, hated seeing him all over reddit all the time", "It's true because some rando on YouTube said so.", "Some rando? That's his ex girlfriend my guy.", "So they say.", "This is very confusing to anyone who follows college sports.", "Who the hell are these people?", "Really takes away the sincerity of the situation when she has a giant promotional ad in her description and the top pinned comment.", "You clearly have no idea what you're talking about because they're both youtubers so there are literal years worth of videos of their life together but alright", "Gus Johnson is a youtuber with 3.5 million subscribers who got a large portion of his fanbase from his videos hitting the front page of the sub for the past few years. He's active in this community as well.", "Tldr?", "So you say.", "OP is witch hunting", "Back in 2018 befor Gus got really big on youtube, Sabrina became pregnant while they were dating and he immediately pressured her to abort saying that he would leave her if she didn't, guilted her about how it would \"ruin\" his career, he'd lose all respect for her, etc. She agreed but wanted to hypothetically discuss options and he basically told her she didn't have a say in the matter. Turns out it was an ectopic pregnancy and due to having bad insurance, she couldn't find a doctor to take her constant pain and bleeding seriously and neither would Gus who was gaslighting her a bit as well. She drove herself to the hospital and found out she had a ruptured fallopian tube and should have been dead. She called Gus while she was on the way and he said he was busy going out to dinner with friends she went through dangerous surgery alone.", "They just recently broke up. As far as proof goes, 1) There's a pic on his IG of her in the hospital on Oct 23, 2018 which is the same day she says she was in the hospital. 2) Tonight she \"liked\" multiple tweets confirming she was talking about Gus and 3), it is well known that they were dating at that time because they themselves have mentioned their dating timeline in videos before. His own subreddit has confirmed this as well.", "Fair enough. I was wrong. She should have just said it instead of making people try and figure it out. I'll delete the parent comment.", "Then you didn't watch the whole thing because those are literal quotes from her.", "You're proving my point but too stupid to realize it lmao on the block list you go. Just say that you don't believe victims and move on.", "You're gonna split hairs over the literal quotes? She literally called his words \"threats\" at 5:15.\n\nStop trying invalidate her and OP.", "His best calls were in the NFL\n\nSTOKLEY", "There's a bunch of corrobating evidence, like an instagram photo from gus on 23Oct2018, showing her--VERY DRAINED--in a hospital bed and you can see from the hospital appointments she tried to discretely show that this lines up with her appointments. His ig description INCLUDES how this is hopefully the last of the hospital visits.", "Okay, some dude I've never heard of abused his girlfriend. What are you expecting me to do?", "While Sabrina is doing her best to be discrete and keep HER story strictly about HER experience without trying to cast blame,\n\nYes. The available evidence from johnsongus's instagram from 23Oct2018 show a very exhausted Sabrina in a hospital bed, which seem to coinicide with hospital dates she showed onscreen.\n\nIt isn't ironclad proof and it isn't really our business to know every detail if it wasn't given to us, but those are enough pieces for me.\n\nThey broke up nearly a month ago, so he is very much an ex, or a \"boyfriend at the time\".", "Hey, that's the \n\n>immediate pressure\n\nyou claimed to not notice.", "I can tell you right here, right now, if I found out my daughter was being threatened/pressured like she was, I would beat the shit out of the kid.\n\nIf I was out with friends, even obliterated with booze, and found out my loved one is suddenly getting surgery, Imma freakin' get the hell there.\n\nAnd I can further tell you, if you do not think telling someone what they can or cannot do with their body is scummy, then you are probably a scumbag.", "Unlike, un-subcribe, un-ring that bell?", "I wasn't subscribed before, and judging by the comments, most people here weren't either. In fact we didn't even know he existed. People are now more likely to subscribe than before just because they didn't know who he was before. OP just gave him a bunch of free publicity. I smell a rat.", "Yeah, if this were without the context of later actions of said-boyfriend, I might agree with you. But you seem the type to not care.\n\nForever alone, I guess. Enjoy it.", "Shut the fuck up dude you're being fuckin weird", "I have no idea what you two were fighting about, and of course we should believe victims. However There definately is some sort of blurred line when it comes to these very public stories, is there not?\n\nBoth of the people you're bringing attention to has an active interest in being liked in the public eye.\n\nIf that doesnt count for at least something here, I honestly believe you're being a tad naive.\n\nAnd I think this is the reason why people are not exactly supporting your crusaide against Johnson, while still supporting Sabrinas case here.\n\nYou've pretty clearly decided the angle to this, but people aren't buying yours.", "I'm not the asshole witch hunting on reddit.", "Why are you booing OP, they're right", "Well, if the video wasnt plasted in selfpromotion, links to her other social media profiles, and a pinned comment.. Maybe I'd take it a tad more serious.\n\nBut seeing that this is very tragic story is also being used as a means of gaining influence on social media, I really couldn't care much less.\n\nAnd I don't even follow that dude or his \"ironic\" mustache. \n\nAll of this is is nothing but an appeal to pathos, and you're just slurping that shit right up. \n\nEnjoy.", "It shouldn't. Doesn't take away from anything else when there's commercials. If an ad takes away from a message like this, you aren't truly listening to whats being said", "(he was making a joke) and clearly it's not meant for you if you don't know who they are. I don't either, but I'm not going around all confused \"why do I care?\" because other people do. You're not the only person in the world", "She has to pay rent somehow.", "Thats why I clicked. I dunno who the hell these people are", "Imagine being this jaded, yeesh.", "Imagine being this gullible.\n\nEdit: someone is downvoting all comments I've ever made, right now. That is fucking fantastic and exactly my point. \nThat is perhaps the most pathetic thing I've ever seen someone do on this website. The amount of pettyness here is new for me.\n\nHave fun you crazy bitches.", ">Well, if the video wasnt plasted in selfpromotion, links to her other social media profiles, and a pinned comment.. Maybe I'd take it a tad more serious.\n\nPeople need to make money, fail go see how this intrinsically devalues what she's saying", "Great contribution.\n\nThis bloke is on the front page of this subreddit at least once a week. So it's relevant. You're comment isn't.", "What you think she made this shit up to make a buck? For fucks sake mate.", "...are you an idiot?", "That is the dumbest arguement ever.\n\nOh so people need to make money now, and a fair way to do what is to share stories of how you were abused, or mistreated, or wronged in any way. Remember to cry because it increases your viewcount by 33%...\n\nJust the incentive here.. We've all seen this episode of Black Mirror. Of course it devalues the story in certain regards that she's just saying it to gain views. \nIt would in any case. Imagine being famous for being raped - do you think that might incentivice something? Perhaps? I'm sure you can yourself imagine how many young girls went into porn as a direct result of Kim Kardashian sextape, just as an example. \nI'd like you to at least entertain that thought for a while. But I have zero hopes that you'll understand such complex conceptualization when your imidiate reaction was as simplistic as it was. \n\nAnd non of this is a way of saying don't share your story. Because of course share your story. But it is to say maybe don't link to your onlyfans when you do?\nCome on people.. \n\nLook, personally I could care much much less about you going to youtube to get a daily fix of cancelculture and sobstories. I really could.\n\nBut have you ever seen someone who was really into creepypasta? Then imagine someone who really liked creepypasta, but also believes thay they're real every time.\nThat is how I see you.\n\nNow I know I'm not going to convince you of because clearly the set is against me here and the mob has decided it's cause.\n\nSo all I can say is that you all seem a bit gullible, and ready to cancel someone just on pure emtional talking points.\n\nYou guys honestly seem a lot worse and far more dangerous as a group than an anxious slideshow comedian from Youtube ever will be.\nYou're the mob in Frankenstein.\n\nHave fun with that.\n\nAnd I don't care that this is long, I just woke up, and you can kiss my ass with that gullible mouth of yours :)", "Not exactly.\n\nWhat I am saying exacly is that I would be more invested in the emotions here, if the video wasn't plastered in selfpromotion.\n\nYou're grossly simplifying my arguement.\nBut I don't expect shit from redditors anyway.", "Hey buddy, you're a Redditor.", "Go fuck yourself :)\n\nAt least I'm not 39, using Reddit as a mask for my insecurity and taking part in cancel culture.\n\nAre you really 39 and caring about Youtube drama?\nIs this real?\nYou're single, I take it.", "Ahh delving into someone's comment history, always a classy move. There is no cancel culture mate. Just whining rich people that are pissed off people aren't letting them be cunts anymore. \n\nNot sure I'd call this YouTube drama. The themes run a bit deeper than that. I'm just using Reddit while I'm taking a shit just like every other motherfucker on here, not sure why my age matters. \n\nMarried, own a home and have a child for the record. I'm pretty damn happy actually.", "I’m with you there. The monetization of the Internet was a mistake... I think it’s gross everything has to be about money.\n\nRemember when pretty much everything on the Internet was someone’s passion project? Videos, tutorials, news, education, games, almost none of it was monetized. The only incentive to do anything was to share. \n\nNow it’s ”how can I make money off this?” \n\nThese people need to get a real job and stop exploiting the masses out of their time and money. The more people look at all this as an avenue of careers, the more we end up out-sourcing every productive job to some low pay sucker who isn’t in the position to negotiate for better working conditions. \n\nAnd now it’s like we’re in some kind of parody universe where even rape victims will prioritize finding a way to monetize their traumatic experience over all else. \n\nI want off this wild ride.", "I couldn't care any less.\n\nBut I do find it interesting that some youtubers having a public breakup and throwing mud at eachother, makes a 39 year old man, married with children, take a side in their breakup. \n\nAs if any of this mattered at all. \n\nAll I said was that it's just pathos gobble, and you're eating it up. I don't even care about the mustache guy.\n\nWhy is that somehow being turned into me defending rich millenials? \n\nGo play with your family or go fuck yourself. \nI don't care what you do when you take a shit. But it's an odd fascination for a familyman at age 39, I gotta say.", "Try and distance yourself from all of this shit as much as you want mate but you're in this thread like the rest of us. That's my point. \n\nYou defending rich millenials? I'm just pointing out that you're eating up the cancel culture myth.\n\nAlso is seems like your fascination with what a 39 year old bloke does with his time is even odder. You're the one trawling through comment history's so you can find the perfect burn.", "What myth? That is not a myth. Rosanne. We could start with her if you want. But let's not. You'll look like a complete clown in a few words. \n\nYou're right I am in here. But I am also a fucking loser with multiple multiple diagnosis, and nothing better to do, you fucking idiot. Why is a 39 year old \"familyman\" even interested in talking to me about this shit? \n\nI might be a loser with nothing better to do. But the reason I have a hard time believing you, is that you, a 39 year old familyman, actually take your time to invest in this \"discussion\".\n\nIf that family you claim to have is actually real, I feel sorry for your kid, man. Having a father like you is going to do them wonders, I imagine.\n\nWhat a waste of human interaction you are. At least I am not you.", "You're an angry man mate and I hope you get the help you need. This is a comment thread on a website, none of this shit matters at all. Discourse is fun, that's why we're all here. It's got nothing to do with someone's mental state. \n\nGet help.", "I do get help.\nAt least I live in a place where we figured that shit out decades ago.\n\nI'm just here shake my head at American problems. Remember that discourse issues are only American issues.\n\nDon't pretend like you care about me. I'm not buying it, so your pathetic attempt at stoic empathy is completely wasted here. Just fyi. \n\nBut then again nothing on this site matters anyway, so why would I even listen? \n\nYou're trapped in a paradox and it's not my problem. \n\nNow go fuck yourself, hypersensitive deluded daddyman.", "Literally says, first thing in description, “sorry for the sponsored ad, I lost my home and my car in one day”.\n\nYour logic is “people that just went through a shitty life altering experience, lost everything they had, cant make money from their youtube careers, BUT EVERYONE ELSE absolutely can.”\n\n“Hey, my life is fucked up, this person is terrible, I lost everything.”\n“Well you should work for free, otherwise I don’t believe you.”", "Gus then? He's cracked at Fortnite my guy.", "Wait, so you can't even be mean to people anymore?", "Most people are pieces of shits in their youth, because there is almost zero emotional education within a lot of families, and whatever learned behaviors we take away it carries over into our interpersonal relationships. Yes, this is a little generalized not considering factors of mental illness and social-political issues. Whenever these cases of abuse are brought into the light we all react in a range from one extreme to another. While I feel for those involved and maybe feel angry I always think on some absolute truths, that I'd wish reflected among others witnessing the same thing. I don't know everything, there is always more beyond what is being revealed; I myself have my own shitty behaviors that I've worked through to attempt at being a better person. There is never a finish-line, you're constantly having to be better, and adjust to life's ever changing circumstances. And sometimes there are events that happen and we get blind sighted and we are put into a hotspot where we have to make immediate decisions, and sometimes those decisions swing back around and we have to face them again for whatever reason that may be. It's easy to judge those decisions and actions we recognize has undesirable/abhorrent, but he thing to hope for there is rehabilitative action and justice. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI hope Gus has worked on and is working on changing those behaviors for the better. That's what counts; that's what matters.", "Screams \"Gotta pay rent, lets monetize my abuse involving another popular youtuber.This'll definitely get clicks.\" At least it was subtly executed. I'll give her that.", "Yeah, this threw me off as well. Wrong Gus Johnson (fortunately).", "Thank you for that psychoanalysis of my personality based off a single sentence. Do you happen to be a frequent commenter on r/amitheasshole or r/relationship_advice?", "Come on, man. Really?", "Lmao relax my dude it’s not that serious", "Lol so why even comment?", "Not in America either mate. Anyhoo have a good day.", "It's witch hunting if someone did it? \n\nWeird.", "Not in the slightest.\n\nHave fun being the mob.", "Go fuck yourself. \n\nIt's been quite a few comments since I first said that. It's almost as if you're some deluded person, who might also be fucking up his whole sphere while being too naive to even know it, and who don't understand what \"go fuck yourself\" implies.\n\nThere will be no \"kill it with kindness\" here.\n\nI think you're scum for thinking it's okay to incentivice kids to share sobstories for money.\n\nImagine it was this \"kid\" of yours going down such a path.\n\nA naive, short-sighted millenial parent is not extacly at the top of my bucketlist of things to care about. And one who straight up refuses to consider the consequences that their actions could have, actually even on their own child, is just a villain in a cliché story.\n\nSo I'll say it again: Go fuck yourself, \"mate\".\n\nEither you're just naive to the world, or you're simply a monster. For your kids sake, I Hope the former is the case.", "Gus admitted to it.", "\"You know anyone else would have broken up with you by now, right?\" That is chilling. What a monster. That is in the abuser playbook right on page one: make your partner think they can't do better than you so they won't leave you while you mistreat them. What a horrible day this is.\n\nWe can't even say \"Oh well maybe he grew\" because he just did this to her again with her recent medical issues.", "No it doesn't. She still has to make a living and she literally apologizes for needing to sponsor it, and Gus did not deny any of it. Everything she said was true. Why would having a commercial undo the impact of the truth? I don't want to believe it any more than you do but Gus straight up confirmed it. He straight up told his girlfriend \" you know most people would have broken up with you by now, right?\" There is no one who would say that who isn't a manipulative abuser.\n\nThis sucks.", "monster is a huge exaggeration. I honestly think she is horrible for sharing this private situation publicly. she did it because she's vindictive and wanted to destroy his career very clearly.", "lol, there is exactly nothing discreet about putting him on blast like this. she even tweeted that she doesn't accept his apology.\n\nshe's a hateful vengeful person.", "yeah i saw the pinned comment on the video. we have no way of knowing if she's telling the truth.\n\nfact is she's monetizing 'her pain', trying to ruin her exes career. she's not a good person. he may not be either. but she definitely is a horrible human", "Gus admitted to it. She's not lying, he confirmed that already. She monetized it because she needs money. Just because she monetized it does not mean that was her reason for making it. You're making a lot of assumptions about her when Gus already confirmed that she was telling the truth. It's pretty sad that every time an internet figure is outed as a bad person, there is a small group of fans who refuse to believe it solely because they like them and don't want it to be true. Go join the Ryan Haywood fanclub while you're at it. I don't want it to be true either but he admitted to it, and even did the same shit again recently.", "Uh, there is no one who would manipulate their significant other by saying no one else would want to date them, who isn't a monster. That is deliberately attacking their insecurities in order to gain control. It's a classic abusive behavior. It hurts a lot that someone I respected so much would do that but we have to accept it. Gus admitted to doing it, and there's no other reason to do that except to manipulate someone. He was abusive. I understand not airing private matters to the public, except when abuse is involved. Every victim has the right to tell people about their abuser, and the abuser doesn't get to be upset about people outing them. He gets no sympathy from me, and he shouldn't get any from you either.", "She shouldn't have to accept his apology just because he apologised (poorly in his public tweet, I hope he sent her a more sincere and accountable apology personally)", "this isn't about getting an apology for her.\n\nshe wants to destroy him that's why she put him on public blast. \n\nIf anything she owes him an apology, that's a pretty disgusting thing to do to someone that presumably you loved (for years after the ectopic pregnancy thing)", "yeah i feel the exact opposite. I think it's abusive to put people you supposedly loved to the mercy of the internet mob. Too bad gus didnt break up with her earlier, she seems like an absolute nightmare of a person with a horrible soul.", "She doesn't have to keep what he did private. To be honest he's an idiot if he thought it wouldn't be made public.", "im saying she may be lying about losing her home and car, thus her reasoning for monetizing the video. because that IS her excuse for monetizing it and you all gullibly believe her without any proof. She knows it looks bad to monetize a video like this and that's a great excuse.\n\nher larger issue is that she's not nearly as talented or funny as gus (and im sure about 95% of the videos on her channel were gus's ideas as he is prolifically creative)....i expect to see her monetizing her drama/life a lot more from now on.\n\nI accept that he was a bad boyfriend, and that she is a vindicative monster for making this public.", "The issue that we're really disagreeing on he is how bad what he did was. He intentionally sabotaged her self esteem to make her feel badly about herself for struggling with a traumatic experience. Imagine your partner had ptsd, and your only priority was to use their ptsd as a means to put them down to make yourself look like the best they could ever do. That's not a bad boyfriend. A bad boyfriend spends valentines day playing call of duty. Abusers use your insecurities to make you feel like you can't live without them and that you owe them gratitude for putting up with you. That's sociopathic. \n\nNormally I would agree with you about not airing personal stuff, but when the personal stuff is as bad as hurting your partner and destroying their confidence and self esteem on purpose to damage them enough that they rely on you, that needs to be made public so no one else becomes their victim.\n\nI'm going to assume that the reason you don't realize how horrible what he did was is because you've been lucky enough to not be in an abusive relationship, and I honestly hope that stays true for you and you never have to learn what it's like. But when people do what he did to their partners, they leave damage that lasts years and requires therapy to heal from. That is more than just a bad boyfriend. He was deliberately hurting her.", "she certainly doesn't have to, but it means she completely lacks character and decency. i dont think he had a clue she would be this evil and nasty post break-up.\n\nbut yeah these people should make every significant other sign an NDA", "I think the only one lacking character and decency was Gus. A person telling their story isn't being evil or nasty, if he didn't want this information to be made public then he never should have acted that way. \n\nIf you feel the need to make your SO sign an NDA then that's a giant red flag of what your behaviour within that relationship will be like. Do you make your SOs sign NDAs?", "of course im not famous. but in this gen-z hellscape culture of trying to cancel everyone definitely if you have something to lose and are a public figure I think it would just be smart. \n\nyou say she 'shared her story', but I think that's a little disingeous, it's not like she 'told a close friend'. she told 'the internet mob' to rile up said mob and get gus cancelled. \n\nhis boyfriending abilities are not cancelling offenses to me as I dont date the dude. And i do think he will survive this as he is very talented. I just hate this culture, where something that should've stayed private goes public and people are so quick to latch on and start throwing stones.", "Yea she shared her story, in the internet. If she actually told an internet mob to get Gus cancelled, can you link the timestamp? I must have missed that part. \n\nAlso cancel culture does not exist. Who has actually been cancelled? You're right that Gus will survive this, because no one is ever actually cancelled, they're just temporarily disliked and focused on. \n\nAnd \"boyfriending abilities\" is a weird way to describe it. Personally I like that this information was shared because I don't want to support someone like that, it shows a lack of morals and care for the most important people in this life.", "I think he is likely a selfish person and also still very young person. It is hard to get famous on youtube. It is a combination of talent and incredibly hard work and discipline--hence selfishness is a strength in this regard. Also I'm in my thirties now, I am a completely different person than who I was in my early 20s. I think calling him a sociopath is crazy. I've watch many of his videos/podcasts, I do not get sociopath vibes from him at all. I also think there are two sides to every story but he has made the calculation that it's best to just fall on his sword rather than go toe to toe with his less famous girlfriend. If my S.O and I were a public couple and we broke up, Im sure we could both put out damaging videos that could hurt the other person. I think the vast amount of longterm couples have very at least a few very ugly times in their relationship.\n\nI think her dragging him publicly reveals much more about her character than is and I'm sure I'm in the minority for thinking that.", "...Ryan is \n\n1. still even around?\n2. did it again?\n\njesus christ", "you are a massive piece of shit i hope you have a terrible day", "I have a terrible day everyday. Its my baseline. But your reply, made it a little better. So your wish had the reverse outcome... \n\nBetter luck next time.", "I really cannot understand this argument for the life of me. Gus Johnson has 3.4 million subscribers on Youtube. A few of his clips went popular on Reddit. Whether or not the mere 90+ redditors in this comment section are familiar of him or not, it's barely relevant because he still has a large audience regardless. So, who's the \"we\" in \"we didn't know he existed?\" Even if I didn't know who he is, I would never hold my own \"I don't even know who this celebrity is uwu\" opinion that high when the celebrity is already popular to begin with. So how is it relevant or even important if you didn't know?\n\nPeople are likely to subscribe to him? Like, the small attention OP garnered from this post? Even if we were to add up all the posts that were made regarding this controversy, it wouldn't mean a thing to the large audience he has. If OP is a fucking rat according to the shit poor take you made, then they must be a bad one. \n\nI just don't understand people like you. Yeah, there's a huge stigma when it comes to celebrity news. But really, this is about a woman that suffered from a terrible experience from a dangerous surgery, doctor didn't take her seriously, was told \"Anybody would've left you by now\" just emotionally neglected by the ex and her family, 3 years later she had another surgery triggering her trauma and being ignored by her ex once again. \n\nAll of that literally amounted to \"I don't care, I don't know who she is, I can't sympathize because she's a celebrity\"... It's understandable to be completely unfazed by these sorta news because they're all too common, but it is COMPLETELY unproductive to say something so negative, when anybody (like me or you) could wind up being in a similar situation, and the last thing we would want to hear are comments like yours. If you don't care, just don't comment. Not saying anything is much more in line with your opinion, but you just seem oddly negative if you have to go out of your way to say something like this. Who's demanding you to do something about this? No one. There's already too many people like you making the same comments, some even making stupid accusations towards her.", "Ever single Gus Johnson video hits the top of this subreddit. He's basically a celebrity of the sub", "A reddit celebrity. There are worse things to be, I just can't think of any off the top of my head.", "okay lol", "Imagine being in your 30s and still being immature enough to simp for an abusive asshole by demonising the person he was abusive twords. I pray for anyone unfortunate enough to be your s.o.", "Calling someone a nightmare of a person with a horrible soul for comming out about abuser behavior she experienced in the past while not actually naming names. Me thinks that the definition of victim blaming. Pretty sure the only nightmare of a person is you my guy", "I'm truly crushed by what you think.", "Enough to reply instead of ignore 😂", "Im curious, is it that you have trouble attracting partners? Im guessing your streight. Usually that bellies the kind of issues with women you seem to be exhibiting. Or is it more so that all the people youve ever dated have had similar issues with you that sabrina has had with gus. Tho im sure you think they where blowing things out of proportion or lying because theyr \"crazy\" or \"bitter\" and just trying to turn people against you", "In case it wasnt blindingly obvious I don't consider her the victim. If anything she's the abuser by going public with something that should've remained private (and did remain private until they broke up). \n\nYou don't know me at all, I certainly dont care what you think of me but I genuinely dont understand the need for personal insults other than the fact that what I've written has clearly triggered you.", "I'm a straight woman.", "Ok so assuming your not trolling any thats true, tell me what about this case makes you so eager to tare down another woman comming forward with her experiences of neglect and abuse? Enough so to morally condemn her fairly strongly when she didnt even directly name gus, nor was his behavior the main point of the video", "I consider his behavior was bad but not abuse. And I think that word is used way too often in our victim adoring culture.\n\nAlso what does 'coming forward' even mean in this case? He was a shitty 20 something boyfriend who didn't want a kid. He's not Harvey Weinstein. \n\nComing forward in this case means putting him on blast in a youtube video that she monetized. I'm sure it has more views than any other vid on her channel not b/c of the ectopic pregnancy BUT because of gus. \n\nI think that gus absolutely was the main subject matter of the video. (Hence this thread we're both replying to...that's what made the video really worth watching---i dont see dozens of threads about Kaiser and terrible it is.) \n\nAlso I think taking him down was the prime purpose of her video. \n\nI just dont respect that. I don't recognize blasting your ex online as 'therapy'. I think it's vengeful behavior. I don't respect or pity her at all.", "So someone manipulates you when your in a vulnerable situation and medical state into making a decision your unsure about, and also says horrible manipulative shit like \"you now anyone else would have broken up with you by now, right\" wich alone is bad, but especially after the clear post almost dying, loosing a pregnancy and reproductive abilities for the rest of her life, as well as being neglectful through multiple medical situations and you think shes the abuser for telling that as part of a broader story, all without even naming names? If so the only seriously awful person here is you sweetie. And yeah im pretty pissed that someone as astoundingly toxic like you had the audacity to not keep their victim blaming nonsense to themselves. Hope you share similar opinions to people you meet in romantic contexts so they know to steer clear of the dumpster fire that would befall them by making you their bedfellow", "Holding people accountable for their shitty behavior is not vengeful. Gus did those things and they certainly.are shitty and abusive. She has every right to share her experiances if she chooses to. Also not everyone has to be a cereal rapist lording their immense hollywood power over people to be toxic or abusive. Also how do you know none of this was brought up privately to him before? Im guessing she had voiced issues with this behavior before and they obviously didnt change considering the repeated behavior had also happened fairly recently. Your really simping hard for the person whos behavior is the root cause of any of this conversation in the first place.", "it's genuinely amusing to me that my opinions are so enraging to some of you in here that you have to immediately devolve into personally insulting me. It just seems immature to me. \n\nYou have clearly taken her word as gospel. If you are a woman, I have to imagine you are projecting your own personal life and experiences onto this Sabrina situation and thus feel personally attacked by my opinions and thus feel a need to lash out.\n\nYou can call me whatever you want. I don't know you at all and your opinion of me doesn't matter. I just find it kinda funny/odd. \n\nI've disagreed with multiple people's takes in this thread and I've at no point felt the need to personally attack the writers of said opinions.", "my interest in this actually has less to do with being a fan of gus. (I would say Im a casual fan, not a diehard) and more to do with broader shifts in our culture that I'm not a fan of. \n\n'holding people accountable' by blasting them on Youtube is not something I can get behind.\n\nIf you think there was nothing vengeful in what she did, I think you're being naive. \n\nWhy did the public need to know any of this? We didn't. The only purpose this serves is to try to ruin him. \n\nHe didnt commit any crimes and did not need to be 'publically held accountable'\n\nthe fact that so many people have no problem with this private matter being made public, or think its totally normal/acceptable---is a part of this cultural shift that I find highly problematic", "Why is it you think that being neglectful, especially through serious medical crisis and recovery, as well as saying things like \"you know anyone else would have left you by now, right\" and pressuring someone to get an abortion when they where clearly not sure of their decision about THEIR body is not abusive, but comming forward about those experiances is? You do realise that gus seems to confirm he did those things and he is responsible for those actions. If he didnt want the consequences from them he shouldnt have engaged in that behavior. Noones entitled to their shitty behavior remaining secret", "You. Are. Not. Entitled. To. Your. Shitty. Behavior. Remaining. Behind. closed. Doors. Especially if you have clearly not changed that behavior. Also you dont have to commit crimes to be an abusive partner. And also also, sabrina has the right to tell her story and share her experiances on whatever platform she chooses.", "she stayed with him for YEARS after this incident. Also he was an early 20s kid who didnt handle this well. If he acted this way at 40 or 50 I would be less understanding (but I still dont think its my business to know this story period)\n\nshe's exposing it on youtube now for money and spite. \n\nAnd sure you're allowed to trash your ex-publically after you break up. But it means you're not a good/classy person. This doesn't help anyone. In no way do I think he's a predator that other women need to be warned about.\n\nIf people want to think they're both shitty people I can understand.\n\nBut people crowning her a saint and having no problem with her behavior I think are either being naive or projecting their own lives onto her story.", "I mean okay. We're not going to reach an accord here. And I dont really care to repeat the same points. \n\nYou're in the Gus is awful camp. Good for you. And I feel no need to call you names. \n\nSee how that works.", "You do realise....abused women, and men for that matter, stay in abusive relationships for long periods of time. Thats like, a thing that happens BECAUSE of the abuse and manipulation. \n\nShe didnt name him dude. Her video was mostly about her ectopic pregnancy, and to get the full scope of the story it also included stuff about an unnamed ex boyfriend. And even if she did name him, again how is that her fault for his behavior? If he didnt want that shit to be know dont do it or dont date people while your a public figure if you cant idk not be a shitbag. And it does help sabrina get some closure and probably some reassurance that gus was in fact being shitty considering abusers will often gasslight people into thinking their being unreasonable. Your really grasping at straws to try to defend your want to protect abusers", "And your a victim blamer who thinks that people should just not talk about their abuse unless its at weinstein levels and then its ok.", "She was not married to him and they had no children. At what point is it 'on you' if you stay in a shitty relationship? \n\nNever. \n\nThat's insane. \n\nAnyway I scanned your replies and you and I are on different wavelengths with regards to many issues. \n\nAs far as grasping at straws, I think I've argued my points articulately and thoughtfully. The fact that you don't accept my position doesnt make that any less true.\n\nGood night.", "ok dude.\n\nyou must see yourself as a victim and feel personally attacked.\n\nIm sorry for whatever you've been through.", "Lol the fact that you dont understand how someone can be manipulated into staying an an abusive relationship regardless of marriage or children being involved is just more evidence of either your stunning ignorance or your sympathies with abusers. Really hope people have the good judgment to avoid interpersonal relationships with someone like you", "I believe in personal responsiblity, perhaps you're unfamiliar with the concept. \n\nwhy are so unhinged that you can't stop the personal attacks? I have been perfectly polite to you and you are not at all showing me the same courtesy, but somehow you're the better person.", "As long as i dont decide to share it publicly. That would make me the real terrible person in any situation 🤣", "Just not for those that decide to engage in abuse like gus", "Also because your a victim blamer. At that point you dont really deserve civility", "Sometimes people are spiteful or petty. They don't become monsters because of that. The Idiocracy hyperbole of our social media lives is so out of control.\n\nIf you've ever been in a relationship that failed you may know that they don't all end nicely. If you're saying that anyone who says mean things is an abuser and needs to be publicly shamed....you're deluded.", "Oh yeah, you're the one psychic out there that got bad vibes from a comedian with the goofiest style.", "Well it's a good thing I'm not saying that then.", "Oh yeah shes so hateful for not forgiving someone for gaslighting her after she lost her fucking child and almost died as-well.\nOh but lets just excuse gus and his pussy ass for abusing another person currently going through severely traumatic and embarassing events, whom is also costantly being tossed around by her own emotions and hormones (because thats what pregnancies do).\nYes lets just protect gus because he made “this my backyard my mom no like me”\nLike fuck off you sad sack of shit, go crawl back into the dank dripping maw you got shit out of.", "You seem upset.", "This is crazy like 2 years ago he made a video about Chris brown talking shi on how he’s still famous for hitting Rihanna and shi and looks t him now", "Him telling his mom to shut up always rubbed me the wrong way.", "That’s not what he is, you absolute dolt.", "Perfectly articulated. These latent potential abuser retards seem unable to grasp that bad boyfriending is forgetting her birthday. Shaming, giving ultimatums and forcing people to make life-threatening decisions and then gaslighting them isn't \"bad boyfriending\", it's abuse", "Talking shit about your ex =/= being shit to your ex. If your ex was terrible to you, would you just keep it to yourself and not tell anyone just to protect them from the consequences of abusing you? Specially if saayy, they were famous and you needed money? Sure, it's shitty, but it's nowhere near as shitty as forcing your SO into an abortion (like it's nothing at all) and then not supporting them when they felt terrible after a miscarriage. Sure, they're both shitty but she was shitty as a reaction to him being shitty to her. You suggesting he should've broken up with her earlier cause CLEARLY she was the problem from the start (even tho your problem with her came as a reaction to him) suggests you're an idiot. That's all I had to say, bye.", "Im a woman. No one can force you into having an abortion. That's your own fucking choice. She just didnt want to own it. And yeah, she stayed silent as hell, UNTIL they broke up. \n\nshe sucks, she's a trash human being and anyone who defends her is a pathetic simp.", "Still not saying shit on Gus' part, I guess I know who the simp is.", "Actions have consequences. I don't know what you expect from people who've been wronged the way she has. \n\nI just found out about all of this, became well read on it and decided it's none of my business, but that I won't be supporting Gus Johnson as I believe him to be a POS. \n\n\nAll I have to say is that I hope she gets to find happiness.", ">but yeah these people should make every significant other sign an NDA\n\nEww. Big red flag. Glad I don't know you. Sorry, I hope you can do some self reflection on your statements 😬", "And Im absolutely THRILLED I will never meet you IRL. I'm a married woman, so I have no idea what you mean by 'big red flag', other than moronically suggesting im some predator guy. \n\nI just happen to be smart and know that in this social media age people with a lot to lose should know that people in their lives will stab them in the back at the drop of a hat for clout.\n\nanyway, crawl back in your hole.", "cool. the fact that you dont realize that she is also a complete POS will serve you well in the future Im sure.", "Yikes. Any gender or non-binary person can have red flags so I'm not sure what you mean.", "I'm positive she's not a POS for putting her experience out there. Everyone has that right and we shouldn't disparage her for wanting to be heard.", "you dont know any of these people. so you cant be positive of anything", "Nor do you but with the information given and the admission from Gus Johnson himself, I believe my stance is pretty reasonable. \nWhereas this whole damn her for speaking out thing doesn't sound very reasonable to me. \nI'm not for ruining someones career and I'm not for stifling someone either. It's up to us to decide what we do with the information given. I've chosen not to indulge in Gus Johnson's comedy and maybe you have decided not to refrain from supporting his content. I can't speak to your decisions. \nI honestly stopped watching and unsubscribed to him close to a year before this because my feed would get flooded with videos I didn't find funny. Thus why I'm just now finding out about this after my periodic check to see what he's put out that's actually been funny. \nJust to summarize, I don't think you're a POS for your opinion. I think it's blatantly clear that Gus Johnson is, but that people can be redeemed and that he is always going to have supporters that shouldn't be judged for watching his content. I also don't think you're a POS for putting his ex on blast even though I think it's a bit tacky. She still obviously hurts over the whole ordeal and she has a fan base that she wants to reach out to. \nWhatever you think of my opinion doesn't matter because my opinion doesn't matter because it's their lives. Sometimes people feel compelled to react to opinions that are stark contrasts to their own, and bashing her was that stark contrast. Have a wonderful life with many blessings and never stop thinking.", "You too!", "I've been reading the comments and am neutral on either side, but I do have some questions for both Gus side and Sabrina's side.\n\nQuestion one, why stay together on either side if the relationship was so bad ?\n\nQuestion two, how can people ignore the financial gain rewarded to anyone in internet drama even bad fame still equates to more money for both party's.\n\nQuestion three, if she lost her home and car, how can she afford internet and a computer and the equipment to stream?\n\nQuestion four, why not get a loan or stream on twitch, instead of choosing to stream on the same site as your so called abuser?\n\nLast question, does anyone really believe that there both not profiting on the idea that this controversy will cause sides to be made and money to be given to both the people this thread is complaining about ?\n\nJust my two cents, either way I think there both doing shitty things and we should not glamorize or idolise people who create drama content/skits, for a living. Thank you for reading.", "> I don't believe that you're a married woman\n\nYes I am.And I'm also tired of getting replies to this. I'm over the Gus Johnson thing, you should move on too.", "I'm pretty sure they were already in their mid 20's when this happened. Not that there isn't room for growth, but he absolutely should have known better. I was emotionally abused and neglected as a child and I always knew it was wrong to treat others that way. Not that I haven't made mistakes, but nothing of this magnitude. We can imply from his apology that everything she stated was true. The things he did and said are textbook emotional and verbal abuse. Inexcusable.\n\nNone of this makes what you said untrue, but public figures who are revealed to be abusive deserve to lose their platform, even if they do work on themselves. We need to hold these people to a certain standard, or else we end up with more abusers in positions of power. He should get off the internet and make right with the person he wronged, as well. And a half assed apology and month long break... That's not it.", "I think you just want to have Gus' abortion and you're jealous.", "I don't mind admitting that I thought I had quite a good bad-person dar (like a radar for paychopaths) and it NEVER went off for Gus. He seemed like a likeable guy surrounded by thoughtful, clever family who are supportive. If he was a serial killer, I figured his whole family would have to be.\n\nApparently I was wrong and he is a piece of shit.\n\nOh well. You (we/I) live and learn.", "That's am jnteresting point. Thanks.", "what a strange thing to waste your time writing.", "what a strange thing to waste your time replying to.", "It took years to recognize she was being manipulated /abused. \n\nIf a person at 15 yo comes out saying an adult has been touching them sexually or beating them up since they were 9 are we going to call them vindictive and evil because it happened years ago?? Victims sometimes arent fully aware that what they are experiencing isn't normal and is actually abusive.", "You'd shit on people for coming out as adults for being raped by their step dads for 10+ years wouldn't you because \"they didn't say anything during the time\". \n\nShe was being abused, do you realize how hard it is to speak out against your abuser? Especially if you don't feel safe? \n\nA lot of Germany wasn't aware of HOW much the nazis were mistreating the jews. (Science experiments/gas chambers) are the Jews in the wrong simply for not expressing so during the time that it happened? Are all the current speakers about the Holocaust vindictive and evil for speaking out against germany's actions right now?", "Abuse/toxicity is hard to figure out when you're in it. People don't realize often times they are being manipulated or abused or even if they are being abusive/manipulative sometimes. There is also the problem that people in abusive or toxic relationships think breaking up will be worse especially if the person you're with has strong ties with all your friends, family, job, etc.", "I just read this entire conversation and I’m more of a middle ground. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, I just don’t think this is the right way. Cancel culture doesn’t make people grow, and it surely only makes people feel good about it until they forget. I am not defending Gus at all, he was wrong and I personally think this is something that should’ve been handled behind the scenes. He shouldn’t have gotten this just because it doesn’t really help anyone.", "so you couldnt rub your two braincells together hard enough to do anything more than just copy what I wrote?\n\ncrawl back under your rock you reprobate cretin. your mother should be embarassed.", "you're really DARING to equate this relationship between MUTUAL 20 somethings, to pedophilia.\n\nthat is disgusting of you do even attempt to do. Shame on you.", "you make SUCH irresponsible FALSE comparisons that I truly think there is something mentally WRONG with you.\n\ncome back at me with an adult argument, not something a disigenous, bad faith four year-old would say---then we can talk.", "low effort begets low effort. \n\nyour mother couldnt be prouder of what a goblin you are.", "when I was debating this weeks ago, I put genuine effort into supporting my positions. You never proffered any substantive counter-point because you're not an intelligent person very clearly, you continue to simply mirror what I write. How sad.\n\nalso, sabrina isn't going to sleep with you dude.", "She's a victim of abuse. How is it different. You are legitimately blaming the victim for being too slow for not reporting it during its time while she was dealing with lots of medical issues, and for simply reporting it.", "The fact that you think victims are suddenly knowledgeable and knowing of their abuse when they are adults is sick of you. You literally are victim blaming. She was abused. He admitted to doing it. She is coming out after the fact while she is safe to do so and you're calling her nasty things.", "she was never in a realtionship with him as a minor. They are the same age. that part of you argument makes no sense.\n\nShe shared this story after they broke up because she wanted views and money because she's talentless as a comedian.\n\nshe sucks and so does anyone who can't see through her bullshit", "she conveniently 'reporting' it to Youtube AFTER they broke up\n\nshe's a spiteful opportunist. You people need to stop projecting your own bad life experiences onto her.\n\nshe's not an avatar of you. she's a shameless, ambitious youtuber who's using personal drama for cash. its a tale as old as the internet", "She felt safe to do so AFTER they broke up. While together she may not of felt safe what is wrong with you. If you're being abused you don't usually get the opportunity while being abused to report your abuser....", "you have no positions because you're a troll. no one sleeps with trolls and that makes you bitter. you wish you had someone to beat you regularly, it's okay.", "you're a degenerate", "this whole gen-z victim culture is repulsive. you cheapen actual victimhood.\n\nshe was never a victim. she's a big girl. with her big girl pants on and she made her own life choices.\n\ngrow up and deal with it.", "This isn't a gen z thing what are you on about. Lmao are you in your 60's? Millennials care about victims regardless of how much a victim they are too...you clearly have never been abused mentally or physically and live in this macho protagonist life because you cant fathom someone talking about their experiences without an underlying sinister intention.", "what amount of personal responsibility do you put on someone who stays with a jerk and stays silent until they break up?\n\nnone?", "no u", "Let me get this straight, you’re not mad at the guy who beat and manipulated his girlfriend, you’re mad at the girl for telling someone about it?\n\nSociopath alert", "He admitted to it lmao", "He admitted to it lmao you look silly rn", "You think all news is published specifically for you? Other people know who this guy is lmao, world doesn’t revolve around ya", "he never beat his girl you lying piece of trash.\n\nsecondly, telling someone----is telling your best friend.\n\nmaking a youtube video for clicks and cash is not 'telling someone\", get your brain out of the shit filled toilet it clearly resides in", "She didn't put him on blast - she didn't mention his name throughout the video and funnily enough her experience wasn't about him. She brought the attention to a terrible experience she has endured and all people can do is say 'how dare she try and reck Gus!' - its actually pathetic. I like his videos and was a big fan of his stuff but this is a cruel thing to do to your partner and people have made connections and Gus has only made an apology because his fans made the connection who it was she was talking about and was put on blast just by the facts - not by her as an individual. She has rejected his apology, yeah, but why should she accept it?", "if the tide is turning and people are realizing what a piece of shit she is for taking a private matter to youtube and the internet mob post break up that's a good thing.\n\nwhen this story broke, every 2 brain celled idiot was coming out to defend her not realizing what a spiteful dick move it is to again---share this NOT with your best friend, not with your therapist but with anonymous strangers on the internet.\n\nShe did it to ruin him and because it makes her money. Its way more pathetic for anyone to defend her behavior. He may be an asshole, but its not my business nor is it yours. Its one of the most toxic elements of modern society.\n\nshes a goblin and I wish her every unhappiness moving forward. I'm indifferent to gus, I just cant stand this despicable culture of sharing on the internet with the purpose of ruining another.", "so you basically say no one has any personal responsiblity for themselves, their lives and who they associate with.\n\nhell of a take.", "They do have personal responsibility. If you dont recognize it in the time, and realize it later, im not going to shame someone for taking responsibility or speaking out about their victimhood after the event.", "Pleas don’t start a debate while inebriated\nSince it affects your tought process", "Look at you just making shit up", "You realize that there's other reasons for sharing your story other than to just put someone else down, right?\n\nSo many people who experience situations like this may not realize how toxic their situation is and how no one should have to deal with this kind of behavior. The whole thing brings awareness to how individuals can be treated and what shouldn't be considered acceptable.\n\nTo put someone on blast is to specifically name drop (which she didn't do here). Because they're both public faces known on the internet, people were able to connect the dots of her story. It's no different than writing an autobiography. Telling your own story/trials/tribulations is nothing new, and it's no different here.\n\nYou at least realize the behavior being claimed here and the same behavior Gus admitted to is extremely unhealthy right?\n\nIf her video reaches others and helps them move on from toxic situations, is that not a meaningful benefit of making a video like this? \n\nI suppose I just find it strange that your immediate and only assumption is that this was done out of spite, especially when your whole message is that people shouldn't assume Gus is the only one in the wrong.", "I certainly haven't and what a nasty and odd thing to insinuate when you clearly have no counter-argument to offer.\n\ncrawl back into your hole.", "i am so sick of the disingenous argument that she didnt blast him simply because she didnt name him.\n\nYOU ARE IN HIS SUBREDDIT RIGHT NOW. Jesus Christ. The bad faith of that argument is so irritating. You KNOW who she was talking about. So do I. STOP with that nonsense argument.\n\nShe was exposing him and it worked because we are both here right now. \n\nYou know something is done out of spite when they stay together for years after the incident and the private life details are only exposed post-breakup.\n\nThere is no reason why you or I needed to know any of this. There are countless countless tales of abuse on the internet. Her manipulative story wasnt necessary and is helping no one.\n\nIts just revealing a ton of people for being little goblins like her.\n\nTo try to destroy someone that you supposedly loved immediantly after you break up. Says a shit ton about you.\n\nHonestly, those who come to her rescue, in 90% of cases, are people who would behave exactly like her.", "It's really not disingenuous. Have you ever listened to someone tell a story of their life that involved other people? I imagine there have been some sort of show or movie that you've seen that involved the telling of a traumatic tale. Traumatic experiences can obviously involve other people, and if those people handled the situation poorly, should that person not speak about their experiences simply because it could impact the people who handled it poorly?\n\nThat seems like an awful reason to remain silent about a traumatic experience.\n\nI also find it interesting that you believe that public figures are only allowed to make certain aspects of their life public. They run YouTube channels, their lives have been open for awhile now. It's really not that weird that someone who makes videos makes one about a traumatic experience in their life. People cope in different ways.\n\nThe amount of aggression you have against her for simply speaking her story is kind of mind boggling. Your opinion on how someone should deal with their life and their experiences seems wildly unreasonable.\n\nIt ultimately comes down to this. Anyone is allowed to talk about their experiences and the people who were heavily involved in them. Your conclusion is obviously your own, but man, your takes are pretty harsh towards someone who experienced something so traumatic. 🤷🏽\n\nEDIT: I would also argue that there are tons of reasons you or I could stand to benefit from hearing this story. Awareness to ectopic pregnancy and the struggles that come with it, warning signs of toxic relationships, advice for people who may experience something similar to any of it. I wouldn't call any of those meaningless reasons.\n\nTo your point about remaining together for years, are you aware of the usual circumstances surrounding abusive relationships? The concept that the abused remain together with their abusers for far too long is by no means uncommon knowledge, and is extremely common in abusive relationships. If you do any sort of research on this topic, I'm sure you'll find that what she's experienced is quite common and while to you and I makes no sense, there's psychological understandings as to how this can occurr.", "> have you ever listened to someone tell a story of their life that involved other people? \n\nof course I have. Sharing a youtube video with the internet rabble is not the same thing at all as telling your close friends or a therapist.\n\nNOT making a youtube video and remaining silent are not the same thing. There are a million people she couldve shared this with that are not internet strangers who dont even know either of them.\n\nIm not even some huge Gus stan. I bascially hate gen-z culture. That's really it. I hate the rush to victimhood, the fetishtization of victimhood and marginalized classes. I hate the ease, vitriol and swiftness with which people cancel. Think about how many gen-z youtubers have been cancelled. It's a staggering list. A decent amount have recovered, some haven't. But I'm a milennial and that just wasnt a thing. And the humor was much edgier.\n\nThere is an unforgiving, staggerling judgemental streak that runs through tons of zoomers that I find horrifying. I am so thankful that I am not one of you, I woudn't make it.\n\nI also, hate that I can see how manipulative she's being in her video and thousands of total saps cannot.\n\nShe's certainly allowed to do whatever she wants. I just see through her bulllshit and I think canceling him and crowing her a saint, which many have done, is totally insane. \n\nYou dont need her story, youtube ectopic pregnany experience, you will find countless stories.\n\nShe didnt do this to benefit the public, she did this to destory gus. That will always be my opinion on the matter, because that's exactly what happened.\n\nWant proof?\n\nYou and I both are in the Gus Johnson's forum NOT talking about ectopic pregnacy, No. everyone in here has formed one opinion or another about a once popular and drama-free internet creator. What she did to tarnish his reputation will be the only lasting consequence of her video. And you know its true.\n\nFWIW, I totally expect her to do more drama videos soon. Her comedy is so god-awful, that its the only thing that will drive people to her channel. That video is her most watched video and it always will be, until she decides to drag him some more. Which if I've judged her correctly, she 100% will do.", "Firstly, this is r/videos isn't it? I'm definitely not discussing this in a Gus Johnson subreddit, so I'm not sure what your confusion on that is.\n\nSecondly, did you just assume I'm a zoomer because I think your opinion on someone detailing a traumatic experience wasn't done solely with the purpose of destroying someone else? You're chalk full of weird takes apparently.\n\nYou're aware that there's other stories out there regarding ectopic pregnancies, but hopefully I don't have to point out that those stories would never be out there without someone telling them. Why should hers be silenced because someone else experienced something similar?\n\nAlso, what makes you the supreme decider on what constitutes appropriate coping mechanisms? You believe she should only tell a close friend or therapist, which to me sounds like an extremely silly (and toxicly controlling) position to take. Without even knowing you, I can almost guarantee you absorbed some form of media of storytelling of some kind of traumatic scenario where other people were involved who handled it poorly. Do you instantly despise any storytelling in which a traumatic story doesn't capture the whole scenario without detailing the people involved who helped make it so traumatic? \n\nBtw none of my comments even suggested cancelling anyone, I'm simply just baffled at how harsh your comments have been literally everywhere throughout this post regarding a public figure who decides to publicly tell their traumatic story (especially since it's clear that it's been referenced in previous videos). There was no mention of names, there was no condemnation (she literally only detailed how she was treated and how that made her feel), there was no calls for cancelling. It almost feels like you've made some massive assumptions (and for whatever reason are convinced that your position is absolutely flawless) that her sole purpose was to destroy someone else.\n\nDid I mention he's already owned up to every bit of it?\n\nLet me ask you this. Your opinion of what constitutes shitty behavior aside, do you want to support people you believe aren't great people? I don't think we need to argue that everyone is free to subjectively determine what actions are worthy of supporting and which shouldn't be supported. So if someone is doing something behind closed doors that the general public deems not worthy of supporting, why shouldn't the public know?\n\nIdk, it's clear that even with an attempt at civil discourse, you're position is resolute so it's likely not worth continuing the discussion, but I cannot overstate how strange I find it that out of everything that's happened here, your disdain lies with the person who just wants to tell their story.", "Sorry, Im really not a big redditor, most of my posts on this have been in his subreddit. That said, I could modulate what I wrote a little and it would still hold true. We are not discussing Ectopics we're discussing Gus Johnson, albeit in r/videos.\n\nThere are some things that can happen in a relationship that are so awful that I would want a public figure (or private one) to lose everything over it. \n\nNone of what she described reaches that level though. And yes, I judge her more harshly for sharing it, than I do him for alledgely perpetrating it. He may have owned up to it, but we'll never know his side of the story, because he may have calculated that its smarter to just do a mea culpa than go tit for tat with her. \n\n\nIf I'm going to write something on reddit, I need to be passionate about it.As I said, I hate gen-z culture, whether you are or arent a part of it, this whole gus thing is a gen-z phenomenon. \n\nAnd yes, I am pretty resolute, and I'm pretty sure I will continue to see her as a the prime 'bad guy' in this situtation.\n\nBut I hope you have great day. And wonderful holiday season.", "If holding people accountable for their actions is a \"gen z phenomenon\", then I guess that makes me supportive of zoomer culture? It's honestly sad that holding someone accountable, in your eyes, is a new phenomenon not worthy of support 🤷🏽.\n\nI think it's fine that you have an opinion that his actions aren't severe enough to stop supporting him and that's all fine and dandy. But why do you get to determine what others find ok or not? Why do you get to determine the line others subjectively get to draw regarding behavior they want to support?\n\nI'll tell you something that's absolutely objective tho. A lot of the actions described here are abusive behaviors. There are abusive (and very damaging) behaviors that exist outside of physical harm to someone. The actions described are extremely manipulative. This is objective, there's not really any room for interpretation. On top of that, Gus has admitted to it in his apology (this is important to acknowledge when observing public reaction to everything).\n\nYou choosing to ignore his confession within his apology and for some strange reason, deciding that even after he's owned up to it all that there's still some possible weird angle where he's only owned up to it in the name of PR instead of him genuinely meaning what he said in the apology is absolutely a Gus stanning take (even tho you claim to not be one, even tho all your posts are apparently on a Gus Johnson subreddit).\n\nWhat about it all makes you think that he lied in his apology and, while he owned up to it all, actually didn't commit the abuses being detailed here? \n\nI'm not arguing how you should feel or what you should do. I guess I just find it depressingly intriguing that out of everything that has come out, this is the hill you want to die on. That for some reason he didn't mean his apology and really there's something bigger going on behind the scenes. That his relationship with Eddy has been strained solely as a result of some conspiracy instead of the possibility that maybe he handled it all very poorly and that just puts him in the wrong and people generally don't like that or supporting that kind of behavior. \n\nI mean we just went through (and still experiencing) an eye opening Me Too movement where it became wholly obvious that victims of abuse, for whatever reason, felt compelled to remain silent until they wanted to tell their story.\n\nCourt of public opinion aside, I don't think it's unfair for people who's support, which creates a livelyhood for someone else, expect that person to align with their own morals, and if it's revealed that person exists outside their moral compass, that they no longer want to support that person. And everyone has a right to know who the kind of person they're choosing to support is, ESPECIALLY when that person's life is, by their own choice, made very public.", "There was a reddit post from around halloween where a girl was asked to leave a Halloween because she was dressed like Hermione Granger and another guest said it made her feel uncomfortable due to JK Rowling. JK Rowling who has never said anything hateful about trans people, but who has asserted that biological sex is real.\n\nThat is Gen-Z culture in its nightmarish nutshell and if you embrace that then heaven help you. I find it absolutely appalling.\n\nIt is a culture of fear. I know people who are literally afraid to say the wrong thing around their peer groups. I did not grow up with that. I grew up with Daniel Tosh and edgy humor and no one thinking it made you a bad person.\n\nThe cult of victimhood. Deeming everything abuse. Trying to place yourself in some 'rareified' 'marginalized' group. This is very Gen-Z. \n\nAnd Im not a stan. I never went to the subreddit before this happened. I went specifically because of this, because I feel passionate about the aforementioned Gen-Z culture toxicity.\n\nThis isn't just 'accountability culture', there is a vicious 'take-down' element to it, often times with little proof, because it's internet outrage driven. I dont like Shane Dawon at all. But he's apologized for his controversial videos multiple times, and yet he was RE-cancelled around the George Floyd incident. There is simply no sincerety with any of this. People need to acknowledge that part of them feigning being offended is simply their 'love of tea'. It's fun to watch a juicy internet drama video where the drama doesnt affect your life. But people wont admit that. They'll say they're actually offended, when what they really are is addicted to outrage.\n\nTo some extent Gus's apology means little to me either way, because as I've made clear, I see him being a shitty boyfriend as none of my business. I think he is probably a highly selfish, creative personality who is extremely ambitous. There's a certain level of Type-A that will run through most successful Youtubers because its an incredibly competitive thing to do. I have no doubt he'd be too selfish for me to want to date. Most creatives are.\n\nSome elements of Me Too have been genuine and constructive. And a decent amout of it has been insincere and cashing in the social status victimhood brings you in this new society. \n\nListen, if you like this stuff, good for you, and you're winning right now. I however, hope there is a backlash in the next generation, because the world has become an extremely dishonest even as is pretends to be 'more honest' than ever.", "It's obvious that you view all of this in some kind of bubble of extremes. For some reason, you're not allowing both cases to be a possibility.\n\nIsn't it possible to rightfully condemn the actions of someone while also combating the concept of unreasonable cancel culture?\n\nJust because cancel culture has, agreeably, run rampant in some cases, why does that necessarily have to apply here?\n\nIn your previous comments to other people, you felt it egregious to compare a Harvey Weinstein scenario with Gus Johnson's behavior. So why do you find it appropriate to compare an instance as silly as your costume example to actual abusive behavior? Every concept you described above as \"gen z behavior\" falls so far outside the realm of what has been detailed in this particular case, that I genuinely don't understand your frustration when people have used extreme cases to compare this instance too, when you just (hypocritically so) compared someone fearing wearing a Harry Potter costume at a party to someone objectively (and admittedly) emotionally abusing someone else.\n\nYou make it sound like \"being a bad boyfriend\" was simply hanging out with friends too much and neglecting Sabrina when that's not the case.\n\nThe truly egregious (a quite frankly harmful) thing is to call obviously manipulative and abusive behavior as just \"being a bad boyfriend\". You claim his actions are no one's business, but when you make yourself and your relationship public, AND you engage in objectively abusive behavior, I would argue that his bad behavior is absolutely anyone's business who has an interest in supporting him. If an NFL player is abusing his wife outside the public eye, is it suddenly none of anyone's business and people should continue supporting that person as such? This is obviously just an example whether you care for football or not, and before you even attempt to claim physical abuse is different, I'll go ahead and correct that thought - abuse is abuse regardless if it's physical or otherwise.\n\nFor what it's worth I don't disagree with you that cancelling people over some of the issues that happen these days is quite extreme. But this case, in my opinion, doesn't fall into that realm, and I don't think your stance on the two needs to be mutually exclusive.\n\nEDIT: Also are you justifying abusive behavior because you believe \"creatives\" require this to be successful? There's a ton of massively successful artists who don't have to be assholes to be successful, and this sounds like the cherry on top of your victim blaming cake.", "Lmao my dude I get it, you're 13. Do yourself a favor and delete this cringe in advance.", "Idk man, the way he said it felt more like an injoke, like he would ask his mum to show up for the bit.", "I don't think either of them handled the situation in the best way, and gus might have been able to find a way to be more supportive, but this is a shit situation that will suck no matter what. it's true that gus's life would be ruined if they kept the fetus - he didn't want a kid, and sabrina didnt either (before pregnancy), it sounds terrible to give someone an ultimatum like ill break up with you if you keep the fetus, but if you dont want a kid, you dont want a kid\n\nalso, sabrina was in pain, scared, feeling a lot of emotions because of hormone levels - it's possible that what she felt gus was doing wasn't what was actually happening - i.e., sabrina saying that gus would listen in on her calls with an advice nurse to make sure she wasn't exagerating, or would go into the room with her for an appointment and make sure she wasnt exaggerating - that could be true, but it's possible that gus wanted to clarify what sabrina was saying, but sabrina who was in a vulnerable position, felt it was more of an attack. \n\nit doesn't sound like gus did everything right, but i don't think it's fair to cancel him over something that happened at least a few years ago,, and we dont even know if he's that person anymore.\n\nit doesnt seem like sabrina posteed the video in hopes of destroying gus's career, hence why she didnt call it why gus and i are no longer together, or something. \n\ni dont think sabrina or gus are in the wrong, and i hope this doesnt come off as victim-blaming, because that is not my intention.\n\ni hope sabrina is able to work through this and gain some peace from the situation, and i hope gus will be able to keep his career.", "from the video sabrina posted it doesnt sound like he was abusive, imo. it sucks to give ultimatums, but imagine agreeing on not wanting kids, then your partner is like okay but what if- that's scary, and that wasnt on their agenda before. it's shitty, but it'd also be shitty to make someone be a parent who didnt want to be.\n\nwhen you talk about gaslighting, do you mean when sabrina said he said something along the lines of most people wouldnt put up with this?", "that is a terrible thing to say, but that alone doesnt make one an abuser.\n\n(i am not on anyone's \"side\")\n\ncan you point me to where sabrina talked about her recent medical issues and how he repeated this behavior? i just know of sabrinas video", "Yeah, I don't even know what to make of this whole thing. If this happened years ago, then they clearly worked through it in some capacity to go on dating for years afterwards, and then they breakup and then she decides to post a video about this, not being vague at all about who it was about really. I'm sorry she had to suffer through the medical aspects of this, but I'm really confused why she'd air dirty laundry, and why it happend to happen after their breakup. Also, while some of the statements she alleges he made are pretty shitty and could be considered abusive, I feel like everyone is saying everything she alleged is abuse, and it's not. They're 20-something year old kids when this happened, who don't know shit. 20 year old dudes are fucking morons all the time. He could have just been being a fucking idiot. And devils advocate here: What if she actually does exagerate all the time? Then the couple comments she made related to him wanting to make sure she wasnt over exageratin and why he didn't necessarily believe her for some things, would make a lot more sense. I'm just saying, none of us were in that relationship and we don't know anything more than what she told us, which isn't much.", "you get it.\n\nliterally all you have to do....is open your eyes wide, realize not everything is black and white, and then you'll see her video in its proper context.\n\nhe may be an asshole...I don't know....never met him, never dated him.\n\nbut she is likely not a saint either.\n\nthis is private stuff, dirty laundry like you say----stuff fans dont really need to know.\n\nit was shared for the purposes of destroying her ex's career" ]	291	videos	Turns out Gus Johnson is a piece of shit who emotionally abused and manipulated his ex girlfriend Sabrina while she was fighting for her life
https://youtu.be/M4ilv14csd4	/r/videos/comments/qeju04/snls_short_term_memory_loss_theater_skit_is_a/	[ "That was very mildly amusing", "The problem with it was the fact that it only had one joke repeated over and over again. A good joke, for sure, but the repetition killed it for me", "At best.", "The setup and what comes after that? The SNL writers don't know because of short term memory loss.", "And really the joke was said before the \"play\" even began.", "You know who thought this sketch was hilarious? Bill Hader.", "This summarizes SNL in its entirely. \"We have a good joke\" \"Oh shit that IS a good joke\" \"OK OK, make a 10 minute segment with only that joke\". The desperation to be funny is just painful now.", "I'm a huge fan of Bill Hader too. I just really don't enjoy 99% of SNL. It's a good place to spot comedy talent, but not a good place to enjoy them", "Oddly enough I feel like the best parts of SNL are often the actors not being able to hold back laughing.", "And if something works for the first minute of a skit, they repeat the skit with a slightly different setup the next week, and every week after until it's definitely not funny anymore.", "I blame the writers", "Bill Hader trying not to break is the best part of this skit lol", "So the joke here is that they keep forgetting their lines? Really?", "What up with that?", "It was ok but the idea was used before and done better [Mr short term memory](https://youtu.be/C6ufImch00g)", "I get what your saying but I still find it funny. There is more to the skit and why it’s funny other then the writing. The way the actor performs there lines is a big part of it. \n\n“ living in a van down by the river “ is basically all there is in the Matt foley sketch buts it’s made funny by Chris Farley.", "Why are SNL skits so aggressively posted here? The last couple of days I've seen so many it's staggering.", "I’ve spent more of my life hearing Bill Hader laugh than actually laughing myself.", "The fact that show is built to pump out such a huge amount of content means it is kinda doomed to produce a lot of weak sketches.", "I must be the only person who doesn’t think that sketch is funny.", "I most enjoyed was Bill Hader struggling to keep it together, like he was overcome with just how dumb this skit was lol.", "Written by Conan O’ Brien, fucking hillarious" ]	22	videos	SNL's "Short Term Memory Loss Theater" skit is a perfect representation of elementary and middle school play rehearsal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOUrRTf6jg	/r/videos/comments/qejw4o/a_great_video_about_gun_safety_on_a_film_set_due/	[ "It's gun Jesus!", "Man that guy is all business - which is good I guess lol. Zero jokes", "…", "The one thing I have read that she did against recommendations is that somehow the weapons cart was unattended when the 1st AD went to get the gun. The bigger issue, of course, is live ammo on the set at all. The 1st AD just grabbing a gun from the cart indicates he doesn't respect her authority over the weapons there. I'd be willing to bet that the live ammo is from a similar issue. Director says we need bullets in the gun for close up shot, armorer say they need to get dummy rounds, director say we don't have time/money for that, just put real bullets in \"we'll be careful.\" It being only her 2nd or 3rd movie she didn't feel she had the clout to overrule the director.", "Well, it was a blank firing gun shot to demonstrate the loudness and amount of muzzle flash.", "Why do you need sights? Still has eye and ear protection.", "Homeboy? That's Ian from Forgotten Weapons. He knows more about guns than you do.\n\nNo, stop, don't try to say how much you know. You could be the misbegotten lovechild of Samuel Colt and John Browning, and Ian would still know more than you. He is a walking gun encyclopedia. His nickname is literally Gun Jesus.\n\nDon't question him.", "Ian rocks" ]	8	videos	A great video about gun safety on a film set due to the recent Rust filming accident (Forgotten Weapons YT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sxRAeh8f7w&t=183s	/r/videos/comments/qek0ci/modern_rappers_snl/	[ "When I heard Kanye changed his name to Ye..... I thought Yeeeeee.", "Fuckin hell, how does anyone still watch this shit?? This show is like an unintentional parody of itself in real-time.", "lighten up", "All in Favor, say Ye..." ]	3	videos	Modern Rappers - SNL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk1h3DINSK8	/r/videos/comments/qek12n/teacher_gives_classroom_tour/	[ "And the best teacher award goes to…", "And the amusing thing is that someone in that building knows exactly why everything is like that but is too jaded and tired to care any more. I was that guy once. I knew my building inside and out. Literally. I pulled the cables, ran the servers, changed the filters in the rooftop HVAC units, kept the forklifts running, had strange machines that were labeled \"Do not touch!\" throughout the building. Phone outlets that were actually ethernet and vice-versa. Power outlets that went no-where. Projectors that were never intended to work. Rooms that had no key so you had to go through the ceiling to get to them.\n\nWould one like it to be better? Yes. Will it? No. You just put up with the nonsense and be happy that your office isn't one of the rooms that require climbing through the ceiling.", "Didn't know Will Forte was a teacher.", "\"Whatever you need it to be... it's not that..\"\n\nlol", "Great facebook content.", "As a projector repair technician for the last 10 years that has repaired thousands of projectors from schools, I can confirm the accuracy of that section. I guess the teachers don't realize that if they blew the filters out once every month or so they wouldn't constantly explode their lamps up at half of it's expected life.", "I love this, gives me old school Ze Frank vibes (like \"the show\", which was his very first vlog before he started with the stupid voice).", "That's who he looks like! It was driving me crazy!", "This guy is funny. He is a comedian that used to be a teacher. His name is Devin Siebold if you want to look him up.\n\nI like his morning announcements videos\n\nhttps://youtu.be/84epbT2H0kY\n\nhttps://youtu.be/84epbT2H0kY" ]	9	videos	Teacher gives classroom tour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvesqJP1e4	/r/videos/comments/qek80k/motorcyclist_who_identifies_as_bicyclist_sets/	[ "Such an uplifting story of courage and perseverance. Hopefully this makes motorcyclphobists change their hateful motorcyclist ways.", "yes", "Wow you idiots really only have one joke huh.", "To be fair, they don’t have enough empathy to know humor beyond cruelty anyway.", "are you saying \"they\" for the LGBTQPKIACXYZLMNOP community? I agree", "It would be fine if it was a joke, it's actually the reality", "Sure thing, ya simp troll", "Simp? Are you an 11 year old who uses random words on internet without knowing their meaning just coz they are being used a lot?", "unfunny false equivalence\n\nwaste of everyone's time", "It's not funny coz it's actually what happens.", "No I’m calling you a simpleton, you dumb fuck.", "That is awesome!!! My third cousin had male hormones her entire life until winning the women's Olympics in her home state a year after transitioning... I'm so proud of her!!", "That's pretty bigoted to be honest.. intolerance towards the views of others is the definition of bigotry", "You should call yourself a bigot instead", "That's great!", "I know!! Barely finishing 20th place in men's... Now in women's and stacking golds every event!!", "Massive progress! She is a champ!", "Sure thing, dick", "Ok fuckwit", "Now don't repeat what ur dad said to u", "You are an asshole. Must be a liberal", "Wow that's pretty hateful... Why are you not accepting of the ideas of others?", "Yeah.. It's orange man bad. Hahahahahaha" ]	23	videos	Motorcyclist Who Identifies As Bicyclist Sets Cycling World Record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXzGdOca54	/r/videos/comments/qelifz/is_action_pack_the_goat/	[ "All these rappers with the same flow, same jewelry, same racial ambiguous girl in the background.\nSame ol same. Rinse and repeat. \nOnly goat I see is the animals", "monotonous garbage. hard pass.", "ah the usual chessboard to imply being a strategist. I am italian and of course i hate mafia but i have to say it is clear the ridicolous intent of making pass low level street-thugs as smart. in mafia movie the italian are kinda always simpletons but when it come to selling crack in an halley there is always the moment the og is teaching the joungblood the rule of chess...cause they as important in life as the RESPEKK. in the wire there is a fat guy that call in the police precint and he just go \"yea hi i am dr.j can i have mcnulty phonenumber and house adress cause he forgot the hemorroid cream\" or something to that complexity and he succeeded.", "Nope.", "No", "no", "Hot trash spam", "Ya know, if you get a bunch of people on your crew to upvote your post, it doesn't make the video or the song good." ]	8	videos	Is Action Pack The Goat??
https://youtu.be/TP1X5L-AufQ	/r/videos/comments/qelj37/professional_propmaster_talks_firearm_protocol/	[ "No, pretty sure that’s his house. Based on other videos where he’s actually walking around it", "He's just using a ring light, so he's brighter than the house in the background (making it seem to you that he's using a green screen). You can see the reflection of it in his eyes.", "and whats with the look away at the end", "Yea, just get rid of guns and fine people that refuse to surrender them. I'm over it all.", "you tell us", "What would the benefit of greenscreen be?", "Okay but what about the people who live in the real world?", "I live in the real world in a country that has super strict gun laws. Also, look at how Australia did it 👍", "Been shooting since a small child on my grandparents farm and now live in a city plagued with violence. I don’t think having a gun makes life any safer at all for me, in fact it’s just a liability. People act like they’re going to go all John Wick on a mutherfucker but the reality is if someone’s going to shoot you, you probably won’t see it coming.", "You are truly a visionary of our time.", "The same Australia where you are forced to stay in your homes 23 hours a day? Sounds like a real charm.", "It's almost like Australia is a completely different country than the USA with a completely different past, as well as being an island with no land borders", "As a recently retired property master with more than 40 years of studio-floor experience, including a great deal of handling firearms of many types and periods for action tv series and feature films, the series of glaring errors in standard safety protocol that this man enumerates are spot on.", "As you being a pro, I'm asking you this question \nIs there any reasonable reason a live round should be anywhere in the same hemisphere of the set? I can't think of an accidental reason it would be there. Let's ignore the severe lapses of judgement otherwise. Doesn't this feel more like it was planted?", "someone correct me if i’m wrong, but ive read that the court documents state that the live ammo was a blank shot. they refer to blank shots as live, despite the confusion it brings with real bullets.", "Absolutely not. No live ammo should ever come anywhere near a film set, save in the holstered, issue sidearm of a local peace officer hired by the company to provide traffic control or other security services.\n\nBut no, I seriously doubt if an actual bullet was, or ever could be, deliberately \"planted\" in the pistol. Frankly that's \"January 6th was a false flag attack by Antifa\"-level conspiracy theorizing.", "I mean it was a big part of one of Agent 47's hits, so maybe someone drew inspiration or something from it", "Sudden movement? \nChecking the laptop to see if the feed ended? \nHit in the Feels? \nSomeone waved? \nAlien's? \nChecking the BBQ? \nChair fell over? \nDog? \nCat? \nGas bubble reflecting the light of Venus? \n\n\nAll sorts of things that we will never know. Email him and find out maybe?", "Who was the prop master/armorer for this film crew?", "Thank you for your reply. Yes sounds cooky, that's why I asked. I also understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here, I have firearms experience, but not prop) that a big error was having Alec Baldwin even point the firearm at in the general direction of any humans. I've been taught to treat every gun like a loaded gun. But even if they did that and there was a blank that emitted more of a projectile than a standard blank, that accidental extra projectile wouldn't be enough to go through the first person and injure the second? So would that not imply that it's an actual bullet, not a defective blank? Or am I off the mark?", "He ends every video with a pun and looks off screen as if to play it off without acknowledging it", "Has the full story even been released? It's a bit quick to be analyzing when we don't know the details..lol", "And that's okay too", "That doesn't seem to address prop use.", "Another Australian here. I do stay in my house 23 hours a day but that's only because I'm a total loser", "What compels you to lie like this? Do you believe what you are saying?", "In the video game HITMAN ( basically a assassination sandbox) for one of the target, one of the possibility is to remplace blank by live ammo on a set.\n\nAnd no I don't believe someone took inspiration of that, because in real life has you have explained the armorer won't let a stranger get close to the gun or ammo.", "Sure, a different country and for sure has its own issues, but I don't get the land border problem? Are you shooting at border crossers or something? I mean, hell you guys have the biggest, scariest military in the world! Why do your private citizens need guns? Who's invading you?", "Moron", "These are prop guns that are supposed to be safe, and are safe almost all of the time.", "Having a firearm for self defense is a bit like a country having nuclear weapons. Do you think a woman with a gun is more or less likely to be victimized than one who is unarmed? \n\nMost violent crimes are not random shootings you don't see coming. The value in a firearm is being able to deescalate a situation with the threat of deadly force. If you don't feel any safer with a gun then you might be doing something wrong.", "For all the mistakes leading up to this tragedy, the trigger man is ultimately responsible. Mr. Baldwin could have used some safety classes from the organization he wants to destroy….", "I kinda buy that the existence of firearms has some detterent effect, but then it also makes conflicts way more deadly. I wouldn't necessarily say that's desirable.", "I believe you are correct. The words “live round” is causing much confusion in every analysis I read.", "The term “live round” in this situation is referring to a blank. A blank has the propellant but no bullet.", "Yes I get that. But how does a blank go through one person and injure a second?", "Well, it's a bit difficult to rid an entire hemisphere of all ammunition simply because they are shooting a film on your side of the equator...", "That is the dumbest answer to my obviously exaggerated question. Congratulations. You have added zero. Good for you", "When a bullet is lodged in the barrel and the firearm is not properly checked.", "Theres like 5 people who's job it is to make sure that prop gun is safe before it even gets to the actor. Not really sure how it's his fault at all if you have even a casual understanding of how w movie set works.", "Is that a common thing? I've fired thousands of rounds never had a bullet lodged. Not arguing, just curious. Maybe because it's an old style colt that's rarely used, it could be more logical? Still makes me curious", "watch my vid, im a pro, ill monetize about that", "It’s likely because they had previously used the same gun with a round that did have a bullet but no propellant. Somehow the bullet got separated and lodged in the barrel. That’s what happened to cause Brandon Lee’s death.", "As an Australian, that's literally propaganda spouted by lying antivaxxers in America.", "I'm Australian and have had an excellent time during COVID compared to (most of) the rest of the world because our leaders listened to scientific advice and did what was in the best interest of its people (ther are exceptions of course).\n\nAustralian death rate: 1 in 17,741 people\n\nUSA death rate: 1 in 445 people\n\nDon't let right-wing US politicians and commentators distract you from what is happening in your own country by trying to find a shiny distraction overseas.", "Oh that's interesting. Did not know that. Thanks. Shitty situation all around but thankful for the insight", "There are just too many ignorant people with wrong information on the internet. This is not true. There are multiple people who’s job it is to ensure things like this don’t happen on a set.", "It's called a squib and it's incredibly dangerous. When you see guns exploding on YouTube this is usually the cause due to the barrel obstruction.", ">any reasonable reason (...) anywhere in the same hemisphere\n\nAsk atupid questions, get stupid answers.\n\nSelf-righteous idiot.", "Congratulations you just invented sarcasm.", "As an actor, yeah Baldwin's not at fault.\n\nHowever as the producer he is at fault for hiring a non-union armorer, and then hiring/working with scabs to continue the shoot after the union walked off because of multiple safety violations related to said armorer and gun.\n\n-----\nEdit: IANAL, but to clarify my opinions I don't really think Baldwin is at fault as a trigger man. I definitely don't think he wanted to hurt anyone, and he now has to live with the trauma of knowing he killed someone for the rest of his life. I do feel sorry for him in that regard.\n\nThat said, he created a chain of dominoes that led to this event. From my understanding a lot of people are confused as to why the armorer was non-union to begin with, when the rest of the shoot was union. That alone is very strange. But on top of that he was warned multiple times, and even had accidental discharges of that very same gun due to the negligence/inexperience of that armorer not following the rules.\n\nSome rules didn't have to be followed because she wasn't union, but those rules are still there for a reason. After these incidents the crew decided to literally walk off set because of the safety concerns. That should have been the end of it. Shooting should of stopped for the day, negotiations should have been had, and that should have prevented this tragedy.\n\nInstead scabs were brought in (likely by him as the producer, generally in charge of crew hiring decisions), and he chose to work with them. Shooting continued with safety procedures not being followed, and this was the inevitable end result.\n\nHe is not the sole cause for this, the primary fault is on the armorer and AD who handed him the gun, but he contributed and he's going to have to live with that.", "You're one of those letter-of-the-law rather than spirit-of-the-law people, right?", " #nepotism is what it seems to be. Apparently her father is a well known and respected armorer in the industry", "Take your sexist trash elsewhere pal.", "Blimey no need to go full sexist. Incompetence knows no gender.", "Illegal firearms can enter the country from across the border.", "Ignoring the racist responses... land borders make it harder to stop gun travel, not even considering the gun culture in the US. there will still be illegal guns entering and exiting the country because that's part of our border issue. the criminals that are coming over (read: cartel, not refugees) are armed, as are their associates in the US selling and dealing their drugs.\n\nTldr: even getting rid of legal guns, because of land borders and current issues, guns will persist in the US.", "Questions aren't stupid. Your answer is, though.", "There have been rumours circulating that the firearm may have been taken off set at one point and been used at a range with real bullets, then subsequently returned to set with said bullets remaining. \n\nIt kind of seems Reddits fixation with the film industries use of “live round” to describe a blank is drawing confusion; because much the media reporting the story is describing the “live round” as a real bullet. Reading some articles on the incident, many imply the cinematographer was killed with a real bullet, not a mishap with a blank or other type of ammunition. Although, I guess that remains to be seen.", "Got some real incel energy here.", "I’m just surprised that in the world of make-believe where they can create all sorts of mind-blowing illusions, that they need to use real guns at all. Is it that hard to fake it?", "Yeah been hearing people blame the 'union members' who got sacked a few prior that they sabotaged the guns. If true so no one checked the guns before they were handed to actors ? in the week/s between", "Agreed. But I was never concerned with, heard of, or cared about the term live round. I was just curious about a blank going through one person and injuring a second. I know what a blank looks like and it's not conceivable for a blank to do that damage. Hence my curiosity. It was explained to me that the prop gun may have had a bullet lodged in the barrel previously and wasn't checked. Still astounding to me that this could happen", "A blank can very easily kill someone if there is debris in the barrel. Brandon Lee was killed because a bullet was lodged in the barrel of a gun used in a previous scene, the barrel was not cleared and then a blank fired the bullet out of the gun. A mishap with a blank is entirely feasible.", "A live round refers to a live round. That's why they call it a live round. A blank is not a live round, which is why it is called a blank, because it is a different thing than a live round.\n\nFor the type of shot that is being described, you can't use blanks because they look different. You would have to use dummy rounds or something that looks just like them (live rounds).", "It always is.", "What court documents? This happened yesterday. Are they in court already?", "This man doesn't blink for 2:54", "Baldwin isn't the director. He's a producer and actor for the film. The director was the other person who was wounded in the accident.", "Was there actual ammo or were they blanks? People still confuse the two", "It’s a lot easier to access real period guns than make realistic props. Especially in the US. In some countries where gun ownership is heavily restricted they’ll use fake guns. But it’s pretty easy to get revolvers in the US and for those close up shots…", "Is the live round what happened then? Most of the reports Ive seen describe it as basically an out of battery discharge, and it was debris from the frame that did all the damage, although I havent seen the latest", "I hear what you're saying, and it makes sense. Gangs here are armed and people get shot and die and it sucks. Loads. That still doesn't justify private gun ownership outside a range though, right? Like adding more guns outside of firing ranges doesn't make the problem any better. Unless you're law enforcement you're not gonna be hunting down cartel members. For the record, guns do look cool and are fun to shoot, but they belong on a shooting range, not in your house or out in public", "Thank you for the correction, it's been fixed. I knew that he was also responsible for the hiring decisions, but I called it the incorrect role. It's really late 😅", "Like what? Basic firearm safety is that one never points a gun at a person. However this was a shoot for a movie, and the scene being shot was a close up of Baldwin’s character with the camera looking directly down the barrel. There would be no way to get this kind of shot without it being pointed at whoever was behind of near the camera (pun unintentional).", "100% agree/aware of this.", "Look up the details for Brandon Lee’s death on The Crow. Exactly what happened- a bullet lodged in the barrel as the armorer had cut corners. He made dummy bullets out of real ones by emptying the powder and re inserting the slugs. One was fired but didn’t have the momentum to leave the barrel (no one noticed). Later when blanks were loaded for his death scene, the slug was a ticking time bomb.", "For anyone wondering HOW this could’ve happened, watch [this video. ](https://youtu.be/m-4oWpnuAOk)\nIt’s an explanation of how it happened with Brandon Lee. \nBasically, bunch of small mistakes made for one huge mistake.", "For fucks sake her gender is irrelevant.", "but the expert in the vide also called a live bullet a bullet with a slug in it, so thats not a blank then.", "Totally, I was merely citing the live round/blank round saga and rumours as food for thought, for the curiosity regarding how the scenario occurred. Many realms being possible, just no one had touched on the gun range rumour.", "The muzzle flash and sound would be trivial.\n\nWhat's not trivial is the subtle recoil that can just sorta ripple through the actor. It's obvious when people are faking recoil.\n\nAnother thing to keep in mind, literally millions of blanks have been fired on stages. MILLIONS. And like 3 people have died.\n\nIt's not to take away the horribleness of the situation, but we're talking about something insane like a .00000000000000001% occurance.\n\nProtocols didn't get followed and this is the result. We don't need something different, we just need people to follow protocol.", "Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?", "With the blatant inaccuracies I see in CG aircraft in historical movies, I wouldn’t trust a CG artist to get guns right either.", "Only jams I ever had was with the shell, never the actual projectile. And I understand jams from the projectile could cause a Banana like explosion of the barrel?", "I wouldn't say that having an attempted rapist get shot is undesireable.", "Also, don't they call the fake blood on movie sets squibs? That's confusing", "Someone explain to me how it's 2021 and we still haven't made this protocol/process \"BULLETPROOF\". \nI have this nasty suspicion the answer is entirely \"cost\". Which would be fucking infuriating compared to the cost of a human life, especially when producing *entertainment. \nEDIT: \nno change, just some collected replies here. \nLook, I get what you're all saying. But you're not getting what I'm saying either. Seriously. Squibs don't kill people. \nComputer Special FX don't kill people. There's been a LOT of technological improvements in Hollywood over the years and it still continues. I know, I've been responsible for a few. I'm just tired of this depending on protocol, when it just DOES NOT HAVE TO ANYMORE. \nGuns just don't need this. Stunt driving, sure - we're far from replacing that, for example. But not hand guns. \nIt's time we recognized that.", "Here I'm confused again.. so was it a blank or a live round?", "That's fair. At the end of the day, i would have to assume the main disconnect comes from culture/ perspective differences. Ive been raised around guns and taught others about gun safety, no matter what facts or statistics you tell me, at the end of the day I'd feel safer with a gun. People like me are another reason it's hard to get rid of guns. \n\nThere's also the argument of how many legal crimes guns prevent- we already have no good source of info for crimes nationwide, figuring out non- committed crimes is near impossible. I'd still rather have the same weapons as a criminal in my home than be at a disadvantage. \n\nIm very much a \"muh rights\" viewpoint in that im against limiting the legal actions of people without specific evidence that what they're doing is causing harm. That tends to go hand in hand with my views on guns - open carry isn't linked to issues, neither is guns in the home. Guns accessible to children is a problem, that should be,and in many cases is illegal. Im pro gun laws, im just anti gun laws that focus on the gun instead of the user. (I.e. assault weapons bans, pistol grip bans, etc)\n\nAt the end of the day though, there's a number of reasons i and others still want our guns, protection from criminals, the government, and in true American fashion, just to blow some shit up. But i know that while illegal guns persist, there is 0 opportunity for the legal gun culture to change.", "It was two days ago, and there was a court case started within hours of it happening from the lawyers.\nIt'll be ongoing for a bit more than likely though.", "> There have been rumours circulating that the firearm may have been taken off set at one point and been used at a range with real bullets, then subsequently returned to set with said bullets remaining. \n\nThat's a [BINGO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLmVTr9hq8Q).", "I'm with you man. Also confused", "Yeah, that's what I was wandering. How come we never hear of exploding guns from film sets? That would be equally horrible, but Id expect it to have higher chance to explode, while the two cases I know did not.", "More difficult for such a round to enter and kill one person and leave their body with enough energy to injure a second person. Not impossible, but my bet would be that a live round was somehow used in place of a dummy round. Remember, they were filming a closeup and were not planning on firing blanks.", "How do they film a scene where they show bullets passing through, say, a wall? Is that all digital these days? If so, how did they do it pre digital effect?", "The Crow is an interesting case but it doesn't inform on what happened here. \nIndeed, Lee's death led to so many lessons, legislation, guidance, and procedure changes that it's unlikely to ever happen that way again.\n\nThis was another, different, but equally tragic fuck up.", "I live in the UK where we have very strict gun laws. We still film movies here and still use prop guns.", "As with most of the news coverage, lots of guessing and assuming going on.", "I think it was the warrant that was released.", "We don’t know what happened here yet, I’m sure it will take them a while to complete their investigation. I just posted that because it gives a more in depth look at the protocols, and how they might get skipped over. \n\nAnd I seriously doubt it was a blank unless it was a similar situation to the Lee accident. A blank does not go through someone", "Blank round are still ammunition...", "What you need is people properly following protocol.", "I've never shot blanks, but from my understanding they usually just shoot a paper wad out that is supposed to disintegrate after it leaves the barrel. I'd imagine it's probably pretty unlikely for that wad to obstruct the barrel and or/do it in a super dangerous way. I just can't imagine the paper would be able to push the barrels pressure past its breaking point", "Apparently no one. Apparently There was a stuck dummy in the barrel, then the pressure from the blank propelled the dummy.\nPeople (mostly the news) are using the word \"live\" both for real ammos and blanks. That's extremely confusing.", "Because rape victims* never get shot, amirite?", "It could have been the same thing. The gun was never actually cleared. \n\nWe say that aviation regulations are written in blood. Many lessons have been learned. But people need to actually follow the recommendations that come from an incident or they can happen again. If it’s true nobody checked the barrel was empty and confirmed what exactly was being fired, it could very well be the same thing.\n\nMore information will be coming about the practices with guns and ammunition on the set.", "Yes, but these is constantly confusion on whether it was a blank round or a bullet. Just like they keep calling the earlier incidents misfires wrongly.\n\nThis video talks about it being in fact a live round, meaning a bullet, while some other outlets call it a live round but also a blank. Two very different accidents.", "Same could be said for any high risk activity or industry. Human error. Can have all the learnings and regulations in the world but if a handful of people get complacent and don’t follow all of them then accidents happen.", "No more movies too I guess?", "I do not know if this is true but TMZ is reporting this which may be a clue how a live round got in the gun:\n\n- [ALEC BALDWIN Gun That Killed DP ... ALLEGEDLY USED FOR OFF-SET TARGET PRACTICE](https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/)\n- [Alec Baldwin shooting news – Gun used to fatally shoot Hayla Hutchins ‘used by crew for recreational target practice’](https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/3909262/alec-baldwin-hayla-hutchins-accident-shooting/)\n\nTake all that with a HUGE grain of salt folks. More speculation than facts it seems.", "There are never any accidents with firearms, only negligence.", "I'm not sure it matters? To most people a gun in a movie is just a thing that creates danger during action sequences. I honestly couldn't care less how accurate any depicted gun was - the plot always decides if anyone gets hit, gun jams, runs out of ammo, etc.", "You won't notice most blinks that take 100 milliseconds. (Most people blink 12 times a minute) Especially on a camera running 25/30 fps.", "Negligence", "Can you check a gun and still get a stuck blank or some sort of accident the next time it fires? I figure guns are machines, they can accidentally break in the next use even if you do everything right?", "Any process that involves people cannot be made it bulletproof. As in this case, a couple of people simply ignored/breached protocols put in place to prevent such an accident.\n\nIt's like reading or watching airline accident reports (see mentourpilot videos), many accidents come down to human error and breach of standard operating procedures.", "Yep", "A blank IS a live round. In that it explodes. \n\nWhich is confusing I know. But I believe in the movie terms “live round = gun powder” not that there is a projectile. \n\nThe existence of gun powder in the gun means that any debris/shrapnel in the barrel could become a projectile even if the “live round” was indeed a blank. \n\nI don’t think there have been any official reports to clarify what projectile actually killed the producer. Was it just an actual factual bullet that shouldn’t have been in that gun at all, or was it debris from a previously fired blank/bullet/etc?", "Human error on a set with excessive working days and lax attitude to controls. You can never make any system bulletproof while human error is part of the equation, you just try to minimise the likelihood and consequences.", "> The muzzle flash\n\nIs the main reason for using blanks. Look it up.", "Yeah, but the barrel was clogged by a stuck dummy. And I have this cartoon image etched in to my mind: clogged barrel = exploding gun. Not trying to be funny..\n I genuinely would expect it to explode, but in both Brandon Lee's and this case it did not, and the pressure from the ~~dummy~~ blank became the propeller for the dummy stuck in the barrel.", "Oh .. I see... So the news outlets should clarify if they're talking about a blank or real ammo when they're talking about live rounds.\n\nEdit: the news agencies where I live, just translate these news literally, and the story becomes much more sensational when people say there was real ammo on the set. And this is disrespectful to any one involved in this tragedy. A popular anchor outrageously used the word murder when this happened.", "Rape victims could get shot or stabbed, and rapists are going out with intent to violate a law so don't much care if they're breaking a law by carrying a weapon. The victim would care about the law and only carry a means of defense if legal. There are places in Europe where you can't even carry pepper spray to defend yourself.", "Seems like it was actually a result of the producers (one being Baldwin himself) who decided that safety protocols and properly caring for and compensating good employees was too costly, so after the crew voiced concerns about safety the producers hired scabs instead which led to a series of fuck ups that contributed to this tragedy.", "WE HAVE. The industry standard protocols are perfect, this is what happens when you don't follow them.", "It matters a hell of a lot when you're protraying history. Imagine Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Dunkirk, etc. with the wrong--or even fabricated--firearms. \n\nWhere historical accuracy doesn't matter, suspension of disbelief is a major component of movies. If a character who's supposed to be a professional at using firearms can't hold or use a firearm like a professional, it destroys the suspension of disbelief.", "So they learned nothing from the Brandon Lee incident....", "People strolling through the Capitol was a false flag?", "Depends on how well it's stuck I suppose haha, physics isn't my specialty. At the end of the day they're both unfortunate events that could have easily been avoided by inspecting the firearm beforehand. As they french say \"c'est la vie\" terrible things happen to good people and hindsight is 20/20", "They unfortunately did, and afaik many gun safety regulations and procedures were implemented so it does not happen again. Yet the arms expert on the set, who's supposed to be the daughter of a legendary arms expert, was lousy. Other people who handled the weapon, gave it to Alec Baldwin were lousy for not following protocol. This was apparently a chain of irresponsible behaviour.\nAnd despite not being a weapons person, even I know I should be pretty friggin responsible with weapons.\n\nEdit: horrible use of the word unfortunate. It is good that they implemented new regulations but it's extremely unfortunate that this could happen again despite some regulations were specifically invented so this doesn't happen.", "I think that's because blanks are still \"live\" because they have a gunpowder charge in them, at the close up ranges they are talking for that shot a blank can still kill someone.\n\nWhich is why they should have had dummy rounds.", "I'm confused. How does a dummy round get stuck in the barrel? \n\nA dummy round is just a round that's shaped and looks like a real cartridge; it will not fit down the barrel of any revolver and neither would a real cartridge. The cartridge case is larger than the diameter of the barrel; it wouldn't fit down the barrel of handgun either. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms)#/media/File:Cartridge_cross_section.svg", "Yeah lets get his/her name out here, what could go wrong?", "They often use whats called a squib.", "But there is no visible recoil with blanks?!", "It seems that either Baldwin is negligent with his handling of the firearm or he is negligent with his maintain proper firearm handling of firearms on the set by being the producer. There have been allegations that there were two prior accidental discharges on the set and an unsafe culture.", "misfire = gun didnt fire. accidental discharge = gun fired accidentally", "that doesn't answer my question at all. How does a bullet, dummy round or whatever get stuck in the barrel? It doesn't fit. Was there a hangfire with a real round prior to blanks being loaded?", "Lots of details have been included in the initial warrants and assorted investigations from the county sheriff's office.", "What happened was that there were no professionally made dummy rounds, so the 'armorer' improvised and pulled apart real rounds, yanking the bullets with pliers and pouring out the gunpowder. The primers were left in and after the gun loading scene the gun was left unattended. Someone was playing around with it and pulled the trigger, the primer launching the bullet into the barrel and creating a squib. The blanks that had a reduced power load threw the squib.", "Prop guns can be real. What's more real looking than an actual firearm after all? And actors are going to point them at each other. It's a movie. There's a reason there are strict protocols and safety measures. It's an entire job to ensure the props are not dangerous enough to harm anyone. Those weren't followed. Its nonsense that baldwin should have checked the firearm or shouldn't have pointed it in anyone's direction. This isn't a day at the range shooting with friends. Someone totally didn't do their job. As an actor he should be able to trust the armorer and or prop master did their job. The only criticism I think is due his way is he's a well known actor and is a producer on his movie. Reportedly there were a lot of issues and safety concerns with this production. He should have used his influence to make sure things got back on track and were done right and advocated for production stopping until thongs could be done right.", "> How does a dummy round get stuck in the barrel? \n\nIn the Brandon Lee incident, a dummy bullet was loaded into the gun but the primer charge wasn't discharged correctly. When they fired the gun with this dummy bullet the primer charge had enough force to push the bullet into the barrel.\n\nThe next time the gun was used hours later, they never cleared the barrel and a gun powder filled blank was loaded. When that blank was fired, the gun powder provided the force needed to dislodge the bullet and kill Brandon Lee.\n\nEDIT: I see a lot of people theorizing that this is what happened in this instance, but we don't have enough information to draw that conclusion.", "It's extremely tragic. Also quite outrageous.. There were specific regulations and procedures implemented in the industry just so this doesn't happen again. And the apparent negligence and complacency involved in this has resulted in a loss of life. \n\nDespite having minimal responsibility, Alec Baldwin will bear the emotional consequences of being the one who pulled the trigger.\n\nIt is extremely traumatic for any one experienced this. And just because of the chain negligence beginning with the props expert's extreme irresponsibility. \n\nShe's 24, from what they tell, the daughter of a legendary arms expert. I'm expecting this to ruin her life as well. \n\nIt's as if some people weren't taking this seriously. So tragic..", "Oh we are doing stereotypical racism now? So what? You want the 60 year old, overweight white guy who probably shows up to the set drunk after a night of beating his wife to handle the guns? Walk to any trash hole part of the southern US (probably your neighborhood) and you can find about 7 of them.", "It's possible the object split when it exited the barrel. If it wasn't a bullet. Or it could be exactly like Brandon lees death. Dummy round lodged in barrel then blank fired afterwards sends it like an actual bullet.", "[Kind of interesting video](https://youtu.be/qeZD9sQ7LV0?t=100) of how they did it in Sherlock. \n\ntl;dw is that they fire bullets at targets on firing ranges and then add in those effects after. For other films I imagine it would be a mix of this technique combined with special effects to destroy walls and simulate bullet impacts etc. Pretty sure on the old cowboy films they were basically little smoke charges that they'd detonate to show a bullet ricocheting etc.", "He is mainly talking about the procedures that should be followed. And then the actions that actually took place. \n\nHe doesn’t actually comment much", "By now all journalists covering this should have had the nuance pointed out to them. I have seen hardly any reporting try to clear up the confusion. It's intentional to keep the story in the news cycle and get clicks. They know people will assume live round equals a real bullet.", "Just speculating (like everyone else).\n\n1) they could have used the wrong caliber bullet, which did fit and get stuck in the barrel. If they're using authentic western era firearms then it's probably harder to get the exact cartridge required, maybe they went with something cheaper but 0.05mm smaller?\n\n2) the bullet could have detatched from the case. Dummy bullets are made by detaching the bullet/slug, removing the charge (and primer?), and then re-inserting the bullet. Maybe the bullet wasn't reattached properly.\n\n3) there could have been another foreign object in the barrel\n\nASFIK we don't know what sort of gun was used or what the victims were struck by, so it is just speculation, but multiple things need to go wrong for something like this to happen.", "All I can see is his ring light that he must have borrowed from his teenage daughter reflected in his eyeball.", "And there are a few cuts as well.", "Squib can refer to pretty much anything that pops or blows up. Like firecracker type sized explosive.", "Isn’t 100 milliseconds 2 or 3 frames?", "24 year old, inexperienced armourer, who happens to be the daughter of someone well respected in the industry. What could go wrong?", ">Apparently There was a stuck dummy in the barrel\n\nWhere are you getting that? What have you heard that makes it apparent it was that and not just an actual bullet?", "I'm going to guess he is implying some people believe all the people that stormed the capitol were antifa dressed up as Trump supporters.", "Dummy rounds can be a regular round, with the gun powder removed, and the primer either fired or also removed. The point being that the bullet at the end, and the case, are both real. Which means the bullet can leave the case.\n\nIn the case of Brandon Lee, they had converted real bullets into dummy bullets on set. However the primer was intact. This allowed a round to be shot with enough force that the bullet left the case, and got stuck into the barrel.\n\nLater a blank was used in the gun. That blank had enough gun powder to shoot the stuck bullet from inside of the gun.\n\nBullets can also come off if they aren’t sealed well. Such as if the dummy round is poorly made. I am also aware there have been some off the shelf brands of ammunition in the USA where one can easily pull off the bullet with their hands.\n\n^ The point here is that there are ways a bullet can come out of the case, and fall into the gun.\n\nThis is why the armourer is meant to insert a rod down the barrel before and after use. To ensure there is nothing inside.", "All movies have historical inaccuracies, whether with the props or the accents or the language being spoken or the hairstyles. I don't think some prop-maker putting a little piece of metal on the wrong side of the barrel of a 1940s machine gun or something like that is going to ruin the suspension of disbelief.", "By the time a gun is in an actor’s hands, the expectation is that it’s not going to fire a projectile when the trigger is pulled. Actors pull the trigger all the time on set, and the result of that should never be a bullet flying out of the barrel.\n\nThe only negligent thing that Alec Baldwin could have done in this situation that would kill someone is if he loaded a bullet into the gun himself. In every other scenario, it’s not his responsibility for the gun to be safe to fire when they put it in his hands.", "They actually modify the gun so that pressure can be created, giving it good recoil.", "Americans could just learn to make films without guns in them. Couldn't they?", "The only times good historical movies have inaccuracies are when events or characters need to be condensed or something specific needs to be conveyed to the audience. More inaccuracies than that and it’s a shit “historical” movie.", "You go outside everyday? Jeez, get a load of Mister Healthy overhere.", "He ultimately responsible for the safety of every one on the set being the producer and where the buck stops. That's where the allegations of prior accidental discharges become damning.", "How many zeros do you think are in a million? \nNot that I have any particular stance on the topic, but from what you said, it is only a < .0003% occurence, which some people might consider relevant. \nDon't misrepresent the numbers.", "> The value in a firearm is being able to deescalate a situation\n\nNo sure you know what deescalate means.", "I was thinking more like people in ancient Rome speaking English and yet it doesn't ruin the movie for anyone.", "> He ultimately responsible for the safety of every one on the set being the producer\n\nHim and 7 others (not including the execs), but lets just try to put it on him. You people are delusional.", "Are you describing the Brandon Lee incident?", "The main thing is that in a movie setting it's basically need as much safety than for shots with bullets from what I understood.", "Blanks, Dummies & Live rounds are ALL different. \nBlank = Primer, Powder, no bullet \nDummies = Looks real(bullet), no primer-no powder(bb’s as stated in video) \nLive = +Primer, Powder & Bullet", "Everyone talking mistake or accident, but no one talking intentional.", "Flights have actual demand. People watching movies don't demand a specific type of technology for prop guns, just as long as it looks believable. Minimize reliance on human protocol where you can. The technology for prop guns can probably be made safer it just requires investment by the industry.", "As a former film and TV industry professional myself, I’m shocked and amazed by the amount of “professional prop people” showing up in the comments. \n\nDidn’t realize reddit was so full of prop masters", "If anyone is on TikTok, Props To History is doing fantastic coverage on this", "Almost every article about this today has the phrase \"court document\" in the title.", "Came here to comment on the ring light dude must have been staring directly into it or something\n\nEdit: Well this comment shows my ignorance I didn't realize ring lights caused that reflection every time I could have sworn I saw someone use it without it but that might have been edited out or much more likely I was just confused. I just wanted to say it was distracting but I was beaten to it should have just upvoted and walked away.", "100 milliseconds is 1/10th of a second, so you would be correct - about 3 frames", "Lol live rounds? Why don’t you talk about using a fake gun? Why do you even bring real firearms to a movie set? Completely mental", "They make flims in australia buddy", "Not any more than a wheel could fall off your car after you change a tire. This handgun was a single action revolver appropriate to the period the film is set in. The cartridges are loaded through a gate into a rotating cylinder. One would rotate the cylinder completely, verifying that no cartridges are present, and that light can be seen through the cylinder. You would also verify that any dummy/nonfunctioning rounds that had been loaded were intact after unloading. That's an automatic action that takes secends once ingrained, and if wasn't done successfully, it's 100% the responsibility of the person that was supposed to make the check, or whoever put an untrained person in charge of the firearm.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfaaZDjxNw0\n\nIt's still unclear exactly what the projectile was, but the presence of a live round was inexcusable.", "Because Baldwin is an outspoken liberal and the worst people in the world are trying to score points off a tragedy.", "I think the same thing happened in both incidents sadly.", "Exactly", "Yep, I was describing the Brandon Lee incident on the Crow specifically.", "this incident could actually be identical if someone used the gun the previous day with live rounds but had one misfire.", "Fake gunfire still looks really bad in films and TV. Less to do with the actual CGI and more to do with actors reacting horribly to non-existent recoil.", "It appears that in the movie industry live refers to anything with a primer/powder so that includes blanks.", "I'd be surprised at this. Adding it in CGI is definitely work but not as much as full recoil effect.\n\nBut I'll buy the argument that it's an additional reason. Much cheaper using blanks than getting CGI on board.", "> Theres like 5 people who's job it is to make sure that prop gun is safe before it even gets to the actor.\n\nQuite often the films are shot with real guns, but blank rounds. At least with revolvers.", "> The value in a firearm is being able to deescalate a situation with the threat of deadly force.\n\nBut how often does a situation that isn't a real threat get escalated to a potentially deadly one through the drawing of a firearm? Can people be trusted to gauge these situations properly? \n\nWhy are people in the US constantly in 'mortal danger' while in many other countries this isn't an issue?", "spot on. you were downvoted so let me give you an upvote to counter that.\n\nThere are literally millions of firearms in this world and I have never heard of one just \"going off\" on its own.", "> For all the mistakes leading up to this tragedy, the trigger man is ultimately responsible. Mr. Baldwin could have used some safety classes from the organization he wants to destroy….\n\nAs much as I think Baldwin is a dickhead, he's not at fault. He was told the gun was safe when it was handed to him.\n\n>According to an affidavit signed by Detective Joel Cano of the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, Mr. Baldwin was told by an assistant director who handed him the firearm that it was a “cold gun,” which on a film set typically refers to a gun that’s unloaded.\n\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/23/us/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting.html\n\nAt least as an actor. As a producer, that's an entirely different story. I believe he's both on this film.", "Live ammunition includes blanks in my military as it has a primer and propellant", "> Rape victims could get shot or stabbed, and are going out with intent to violate a law so don't much care if they're breaking a law by carrying a weapon.\n\nYou really seem to have a problem with rape victims.", "I read yesterday that a blank primer can be as powerful as a quarter load. It this true? Because that would kick debris out at a hell of a speed.", "It can't have been a blank if it penetrated through someone and into a person behind them", "Clearly a live round isn't a blank shot if it can kill someone like it did in this case, maybe they should come up with a better term for it than.", ">I see a lot of people theorizing that this is what happened in this instance, but we don't have enough information to draw that conclusion.\n\npfft, i see people just straight up claiming it as fact.", "Yeah, I’m not sure the origin of the confusion here. Everything I’ve seen before this week refers to anything with a powder charge as a live round.\n\nI’ve only ever handled blanks for ceremonial events with M1 Garands, though.", "Live anything that makes it go pop.", "Correct. It's why Brandon Lee is no longer with us.", "She's white", "Sadly, a bad chain of command protocols not followed.", "Makes the IATSE walkout look even more necessary", "... \n\nEven if you did use it, why wasn't it cleared?", "Yes it’s pretty common with stove pipes and other short rounds. Bad or weak ammo\n\nDoesn’t really matter the gun", "Oh the Crowe incident, i believe, they forgot to take the primers out of the dummy rounds (for the close up shots with bullets visible in the cylinder). When the trigger was pulled, the primer had enough force to send the bullet into the barrel where it stayed. Nobody cleared the gun after that, the bullet stayed in the barrel, they switched to blanks, when they fired the blank, the blast from the gun powder in the blank sent the bullet that was stuck in the barrel out of the gun at about the same velocity as a regular live round and killed Bobby Lee. Perhaps something like this went down again.", "To be able to fire blanks of course, have you seen how bad it looks when they CGI gunfire?", "It's not just the flash at the muzzle, it illuminates the environment as well in ways that are difficult to do in CG.\n\nImagine a firefight in a dark environment with a bunch of muzzle flashes placed onto the guns and nothing else. It would look really stupid", ">Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold”\n\nJust read that... who knows. From: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set", "Yes, HUGE, grain of salt, but someone on Reddit yesterday was echoing this reporting. \n\nCommenter claimed to work in props, and was in industry chats that were 1 or 2 degrees from the Rust production that made this claim. \n\nCommenter obviously can't be verified but their post history did reflect a genuine history of props", "A lot of times, it's cheaper to just use the real thing than to fabricate props from scratch. I forget what movie it was, but I remember a movie involving tanks, and they filmed it with actual tanks, because buying actual tanks was cheaper than doing it in CGI.\n\nCustom machining to build something like a gun is costly, due to how labor intensive it is (watch any of Adam Savage's build videos to get a feel for how much goes into even just hobbyist-level production). Usually they'll modify a real gun in some way so they can't be fired, but sometimes you need one that's technically functional for close-ups (like he describes in the video), which is why it's just easier to use a real one as long as everybody follows the protocol.", "They also use Cold and Hot to describe if a weapon is loaded with ammo. Cold means no ammo is load, Hot means it has ammo.\n\nAccording to reports I've read, the gun was announced as a Cold Gun, so should have been safe. Though if you've even been through gun safety, every gun is hot until you've personally verified it.", "Fact so many people are having trouble understanding not only the difference, but the fact that there was LIVE AMMUNITION on a movie set, is bewildering \n\nIt’s like these people have been brought up their entire lives, thinking action movies, we’re documentary’s and real, and used all real guns and ammo, and actually did kill all those people 🤔 \n\nBetter not get downvoted for this either, cuz y’all know damn well there’s been like a billion comments in these “incident” threads, of people going “it’s Alec Baldwins fault he shot her!!!! Durrrrr!!!!” Or like I just said, the insane fact that your average movie watcher doesn’t seem to understand what a prop gun is, what a blank is compared to an actual fuckn bullet, and on and on….\n\nThe amount of people that just have no idea what they are saying in these threads, should be studied for future science", "I have a feeling the latter part may change, depending on how this plays out.", "... [Guillotine Channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/guillotinechannel), where have you been.", "Did you really need to ask that question??? \n\nLet’s be real here, can you think of one even pseudo-logical reason why there would be LIVE AMMUNITION on an action movie set?????\n\nEdit: do you know how much work is going on out west in Hollywood and other locations? How many shows and movies have been made over the years????\n\nSincerely, why would you think to even question if they have live ammo on set lol?\n\nYou think Alec had it in his Rider, that he’s always supposed to have several cases of hollow points of the best ammo available, anytime he does an action movie, so that he can grab a prop gun and rack the chamber and go let loose….??? 🤔", "Terms of art used in industry mean very specific things to those people in that industry. \n\nThe confusion is when people outside of that industry start using it to mean something else. \n\nExamples: \n\n\"Autopilot\" relating to aviation vs the general public's understanding of \"Autopilot\". \n\n\"Theory\" in science vs \"Theory\" in the general public. \n\nSo, to people in the industry - they know that a \"blank\" is a live round, and that a blank can still kill if used incorrectly. This is why there are safety protocols and why armourers and prop masters are trained specifically how to deal with them and how to train actors and others working on set to work with them safely (always under supervision).", "According to his statistics, if you have every person in the world shoot one bullet per second for 10 years straight (no breaks for eating and sleeping), the chance of an accident would still be less than one percent.", "Wasn't Brandon Lee a case of a lodged ~~shell~~ bullet in the ~~chamber~~ barrel?\n\nedit: don't reddit before coffee. Thanks for everyone who corrected me. Thought process was correct terminology was incorrect.", ">No live ammo should ever come anywhere near a film set\n\nBlanks are also live ammo.", ">Is that a common thing? I've fired thousands of rounds never had a bullet lodged.\n\nCommon enough that they sell specific rods to clear lodged bullets from your barrel.", "Here’s an analysis from an attorney who defends people in self-defense shootings: https://lawofselfdefense.com/alec-baldwin-shoots-woman-dead-innocent-accident-or-involuntary-manslaughter/", "Due to the USs import laws regarding machine guns, it can be far easier and cheaper to get lots of modern weapons for a film in Canada, which has more carve outs for the film industry in its firearms laws.\n\nI suspect that any regulation disallowing real guns as props will drive more productions to Toronto.", "Couldn't someone design a spring loaded prop of some kind that simulates recoil?", "People watch too many movies showing blanks as harmless. \n\nBlanks are dangerous as fuck.", "Squib load. The previous round was live bullet and weak load/primer fired, lodging the bullet in the barrel. The next round, blank consisting of only powder and primer, dislodge the bullet as a projectile. This is what killed Brandon Lee. Damn that Lee curse!", "Because given the facts available at the moment that seems extremely unlikely. Why would someone intentionally load real ammunition into a gun for a scene where the gun is not even meant to be fired and just rely on the fact it might accidentally discharge? The far more likely outcome would be that the gun would be cleared at some point like it's supposed to be, the ammunition would be discovered and there would be a huge investigation into how it got there.", "What if a dummy round was lodged in the barrel and a blank was in the chamber? Not sure how that would happen but maybe that could cause what happened without having a full live bullet in the gun?\n\nI’m sure this will all be resolved eventually but it sure feels like there was serious negligence here.", "He's the actor, not the armorer. \n\nThat's like blaming the waiter because your food is undercooked.", "This guy pops up in my YouTube shorts recommendations constantly and it’s always super interesting and generally less somber. Highly recommend his stuff", "And let's keep it that way, because there doesn't seem to be a single reason that it would be.", "The guy in the video explicitly explains it as a normal functional round (powder + bullet).\n\nI've been unclear from all the news as well, but this seems to be that it was an actual live round.", "The fact that you even bring up that level of crazy bullshit at the end makes me question your sanity.", "This video sums it up, rather clear but blunt: someone breached protocol and handed the actor a live, HOT, gun and not what was expected. Sad.", "Staff negligence not the actor fault", "I agree except for one glaring issue; Why did he lift, aim and pull the trigger towards two crew members and not, say, wait for 'Action' on the set for the scene in which he is likely scripted to then use the gun?\n\nI am not one for conspiracy theories, as others seem to suggest this was 'intentional', but I will ask obvious questions. I truly don't think it was intentional, but what exactly happened in those moments leading up to the accident? The mindset of Baldwin, the director and all those around?\n\nWhat about the tech that handed him the gun, who was responsible for its set up?", "What I’ve heard, and I think the guy mentions this in the video, is that it was a “looking down the barrel“ type of shot.", "It appears, by the latest reports, that these were FMJ bullets (lead core projectile encased in brass or copper) used for target practice loaded into the revolver.\n\nApparently six rounds of actual FMJs, NOT BLANKS, were left in the revolver after it was used for target practice off set.\n\nThe first assistant director apparently didn't know the difference and unknowingly handed the actor a loaded revolver.", "That was shot out with a full powder blank; in essence a regular live round.", "IIRC with Lee it was a dummy round tip, cartridge separated leaving a fake slug lodged in a revolver and propelled by a blank.", "Land borders make it hard for Mexico and Canada to implement gun laws. Not so much the US, that's the source of them.", "Well, their time has come.\n\nFor real though: isn't something like 90% of all Reddit users \"lurkers\"? So I can imagine why you would comment once a topic you know very well becomes relevant.", "Firearm Rule #1 exists for a reason.\n\nThis death is Baldwin’s fault.", "We also use half and quarter load charges sometimes. Though I think that era is coming to an end with the Rust tragedy", "But I need something to be angry at now that the Laundrie case fell through.", "Ah yes, the famous Russel Crowe and Bobby Lee incident", "In this case the actor was also a producer. A producer who chose to hire an inexperienced and, I believe, non-union armorer.", "i feel like the military terminology confuses the issue... they have training ammunition we'd call blanks, and 'live fire exercises' using normal munitions", "That's exactly why a blank must be treated as a live round. Any obstruction in the barrel, and you've basically got a fully functional bullet.\n\nAlso, blanks can be dangerous by themselves.", "I was thinking gas powered, like a CO2 cylinder to cycle a mechanism to create both recoil and actuate the slide.", "The blank can \"shoot\" anything stuck in the barrel as if were a normal round. It's what happened to Brandon Lee if I'm not mistaken.", "> The affidavit did not specify what kind of ammunition the gun had been loaded with.\n\nNYT, [\"Alec Baldwin Was Told Gun in Fatal Shooting on Set Was Safe, Officials Say\"](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/us/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie.html) Published Oct. 21, 2021 Updated Oct. 23, 2021\n\nEdit: \nTry a private tab if you hit the paywall, alternatively try an archive link:\n\nhttps://archive.today/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/us/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie.html\n\nAlternative sources:\n\n> The affidavit did not specify what type of charge the gun might have carried.\n\nNDTV, [\"Inquiry Into Alec Baldwin's Film Set Shooting Focuses On Gun Protocol \"](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/inquiry-into-alec-baldwins-film-set-shooting-focuses-on-gun-protocol-2585799) Updated: October 24, 2021 3:01 am IST\n\n> The affidavit did not specify what kind of ammunition the gun had been loaded with.\n\nDeccan Herald, [\"Alec Baldwin was told gun in fatal shooting on set was safe: Officials\"](https://www.deccanherald.com/international/alec-baldwin-was-told-gun-in-fatal-shooting-on-set-was-safe-officials-1043322.html) Oct 23 2021, 06:57 ist updated: Oct 23 2021, 06:57 ist", "Yah I just read that a second ago. A 24yr ol daughter of a famous armorer. She was nervous for her first job and almost didn’t take it.", "It still leaves the question open as to why he aimed in their direction. He was told it was a cold gun, which I assume means 'empty' but the tech had it prepped so it would seem to me the tech knew it had a blank in it... doesn't seem to be empty to me? But thinking it was empty, pulling the trigger would seem completely safe to do.. but again, aiming at the crew? \n\nI may well be interpreting separate info into one conclusion so open to corrections, of course.\n\nT", "Exactly, I still don't understand cheaping out and not getting real but nonfunctioning guns. Use that for the closeups.", "Have you ever watched a movie?", "but it went THROUGH her and into the shoulder of another. Blanks don't do that.", "see In Bruges for a good example. Guy gets shot in the eye with a blank and goes blind.", "nah only for bullet wound FX, the squib blows up and bursts the blood pack", "“Looking down the barrel“ shot means that the gun is pointed directly at a camera.\n\nThe director and assistant director are behind the camera...\n\nThe problem he described in the video was that rather than the armorist or prop master having constant supervision of the firearms and giving them directly to the actor, the guns were just sitting on a cart unattended and the assistant director went over and grabbed one and gave it to Baldwin. Did you actually watch the video?", "Heyyy, that's the same guy that makes the edible dirt! I like him. Very knowledgeable.", "Wait what", "Guy in this video says it's his understanding that they were filming a close up where Baldwin was pointing a revolver directly at the camera. When the camera is looking right down the barrel of the gun you can see the tips of the bullets in the chambers. They were supposed to use a \"dummy\" round that had BBs instead of gunpowder...so less than a blank even.", "No, it doesn't feel like it was planted don't start stupid stories.", "How did you get that number? I divided 3/1,000,000 but that gives me 0.000003% which is also different than yours. Edit: accidentally put one.", "This of course, a major plot point in the movie, The Prestige.", "... that they didn't have fucking professionals. \n\nThey were cutting corners.\n\nThey had non-union people.\n\nThey killed someone.", "Sure, they did. Accidents like this are exceedingly rare. Consider how often guns are used in movies. Now consider how many accidents like this you've heard of.\n\nThere ate very effective guidelines and procedures in use, but nothing is perfect. People make mistakes even with the most stringent rules and regulations.", "Typical film industry nepotism", "Is it the job of the AD to handle guns? If not, I hope they crucify that prick David Halls, Even moreso than the Armourer.", "They weren't hunting...\n\nHe's a fucking actor, he has to point and shoot AT THE CAMERA for a damn movie, this is the firearms \"expert\"\nfailure.", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_(1994_film)#Brandon_Lee's_death", "\"Autopilot\" relating to aviation vs the general public's understanding of \"Autopilot\".\n\nI always thought those things pretty much flew themselves ;)", "1. Keep real Live bullets far away from movie set gun.\n\nYou had one job...", "Even then, do we know he was the one in charge of hiring? Why do you use the word \"the\"? He is one of many producers and execs. Are you ignoring all the other ones?", "This is the one of the best points that Baldwin was at fault for cutting corners, or allowing corners to be cut.", "Yeah that makes sense. I assumed lower charges are used at times since you’re not actually needing to send a bullet down range, you just need the flash and recoil.", "I'll believe the planted bullet theory over this bullshit.", "What should we call it? Zombie round?", "Who was the armorer?", "I've worked in gov defence for a fair while now and there's no way we call blanks live rounds. That would create no end of confusion.", "a blank didnt go through someone shoulder and continue on to hit another person, it probably wasnt *just* a blank... \n \ne: * ", "From what was said this was supposed to be a close-up showing loaded cylinders and pull trigger. A blank isn't going to have much recoil (unless full charge, but even then), but it sounds like this shot was just supposed to have dummy rounds.\n\nProcedure wasn't followed, a cold gun wasn't given, and accidental discharge occurred.\n\nSo it's not a matter of \"in this age of CGI\", it was supposed to be a few dollars of props in the gun saves hours of work and money. CGI/sfx are expensive, why use them when the practical elements are cheap?\n\nIt's totally possible this is mostly on the armorer (who everyone is shitting on for nepotism, like children have never learned their parents trade before), but it's also possible her cart was at her station but she had stepped away because maybe she'd been told they weren't filming a scene with a gun? Maybe that's why the AD took the weapon? I don't know what procedure is supposed to be if she goes to the bathroom or has to help elsewhere (maybe she was doing some other task for her job), but again, the AD broke procedure by taking the weapon from her cart. They say there were several on it, maybe he took the wrong one because he wasn't supposed to touch any of them.\n\nThat said, I seriously doubt procedure involves leaving weapons laying around... Empty, or (especially) not.", "Problem is that many actors are not capable of doing this, so the job is delegated to someone else.", "But they don't know firearms, they're actors. \n\nThat's like saying they should know how to fly a plane if they play a pilot. \n\nDoes he even know how to do that? \n\nThat's the armorers job. Check, hand him the gun, tell him how to check it.", "Wow. I definitely hadn't heard all of that, deffo didnt know it was his stunt double that pulled the trigger\n\n\nHow does a gun fire 2 live* rounds though? I mean, I know physically, but it really does sound like their safety was in the toilet. Whomever was in charge of gun safety on that set will be hung out to dry most likely. Absolutely shitty thing all round, and all to cut a couple corners\n\nEdit: Misunderstood the article, you can stop downvoting now, jeez", "Thank you for being a bad friend", "My understanding is that he wasn't aiming it at anyone, he was just rehearsing the drawing action. Which means, for someone that doesn't practice hip firing, it was pointed at everything in front of him.", "That gun should have never even seen live ammunition. \n\nLive ammunition shouldn't even be on set, it's the armorers fault. \n\nPeople who understand firearms don't get that other people don't get it.", "Gun safety is the responsibility of everyone involved. If someone hands you a gun it's safety is also your responsibility. Actors and everyone involved in the handling of real firearms are given safety training. Not even checking before pointing a functioning gun at people is gross negligence.", "It's really not needed. The point of calling it a live round is for those working with or in proximity of the weapon understand that even a blank will fucking kill you. Any professionals surrounding this type of ammunition, even on set individuals in proximity (im a camera guy but have heard the safety talk 100 times) understand the nomenclature. I don't see a benefit to muddying the waters from deadly/safe (live/dummy) just so it's more clear to the public in the event of an accident.", "It's the responsibility of the person who knows firearms to teach the actor, period.\n\nIt was the failure of the firearms expert.", "What’s the difference between an Accidental Discharge and Negligent Discharge? Is there a difference?", "It's the responsibility of the experts to teach the people who don't know. PERIOD \n\nyou don't hand a gun to someone that doesn't know what they're doing. PERIOD", "Question. I know the go to is that this isn’t on Alec Baldwin. And for the most part I’d agree. However since these are real guns, regardless if the prop master checked the gun already, shouldn’t proper gun safety dictate that the person using the gun double check that the rounds are safe?\n\nIt may be common practice to trust the prop master but common practice doesn’t necessarily mean safe or correct. I’m a teacher and we get the same training every year before school starts. It’s boring but it’s required so we do our job properly. Do actors on movie sets take the same required training class before a shoot with guns? That way they can properly identify a potential danger with their own guns and have it fixed before filming so this doesn’t happen again.", "Why was there live real ammunition? \n\nOn set? \n\nIn the gun used for making a movie? \n\nNone of those things are his fault... except being a producer and hiring a damn fool \"expert\"", "Oh okay, the dude above really confused me when he said 'crowe' and Bobby lee, really thought it was some incident with russell crowe", "Ok but an actor using a prop gun isn’t really the same as someone in the military who probably went through basic training.", "> I don't see a benefit to muddying the waters from deadly/safe (live/dummy) just so it's more clear to the public in the event of an accident.\n\nTo avoid situations such as the one we're currently in?", "Properly follow proper protocol", ">e job of the AD to handle guns? If not, I hope they cr\n\nno. there was meant to be a weapons master/handler but he was a union guy who left the set to join the ongoing strikes.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nso did most of the crew as well. so the movie studio did what every other studio would do. hire grean and not well trained personal to more or less replace everyone. and the guy who became the new weapon master wasnt trained for that position. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nyou can see where shit started to fucking fail.", "That's what I'm saying. They received firearms safety training. He simply did not follow it. And if you don't know what you're doing don't accept a firearm from someone and point it at people. It's everyone's responsibility. Firearm safety is a collective effort and everyone here failed at maintaining a safe environment.", "\"In the military\"\n\nYes, do you understand we are not all military? \n\nYou can see not all people know that, right? \n\nYou understand most laypeople would not know the basic rules of firearm safety\n\nNo passing the buck means it's everyone's fault. \nEveryone who handled that gun.\nWhich is fair. \n\nNot just his.", "Next you’re going to tell me lightsabers aren’t real 🙄", "It has nothing to do with the gun, but with the ammunition. Cheap ammo, or noob reloads, tend to misfire.\n\nIn this case, there may have been something up with the gun, like the hammer getting hung up on something on the holster.", "> That gun should have never even seen live ammunition.\n\nRight, but it did and that is why rule 1 exists. Baldwin ignored rule 1, pulled the trigger and murdered someone. That's not to say other people are not culpable.", "There was a bullet in the barrel that was propelled by the powder from a blank.", "This would have made an excellent episode of Columbo or Murder, She Wrote: actor accidentally kills someone with a prop gun he thought was shooting blanks, but had a live bullet instead.", "That has to mean the 1st AD was the only one to check it OR the armorer also doesn't know the difference.", "Blanks are used to get a realistic flash and recoil. Cgi can make realistic flashes but the lack of kick back is noticible. When everyone is following the rules properly the danger is almost negligble. All the reports make it sound like people said fuck the rules at several levels.", "While I'm sure the other person is indeed delighted to work on the gun, methinks it was delegated to your autocorrect", "Well, in order for the discharge to shoot a projectile through one person and into another, there either has to be a “live” round in the gun (primer, powder, and bullet) or a full-charge “blank” with a Brandon Lee style fouled barrel. \n\nA full-charge blank can be deadly at extremely close range (muzzle up against target) and cause injury at close range (high-speed burning powder residue) but it cannot produce the described injuries from this incident without a projectile. \n\nBecause revolvers expose the nose of rounds at the front of the cylinder, a revolver loaded with blanks (or not loaded at all) is visually obvious; apparently it is common Hollywood practice to load revolvers with dummy rounds for filming. This makes it practically difficult (although not impossible, dummy rounds usually have a recess where the primer would normally be so they can be verified from the rear) to verify if the gun is loaded with dummy rounds or “live” ammo. \n\nBut Dear Sweet Lob the Lobster God, there is no justification for having live ammo anywhere near a movie set. \n\nI have worked with live and blank ammo for 30 years (military) and the cardinal rule is to never ever ever mix blank with ball.", "Jon-Erik Hexum killed himself because he thought a blank was harmless.", "Is the actor going to actually be flying a plane? If they are then they better know how to fly it. If the actor is going to be operating a lethal machine, they damn well better know how it works.", "Good morning vibes!", "Firearm safety 101: always treat a gun like it’s loaded", "This is awesome. It really shows how real security is handled and the tragic event shows how important such security is and that its there for a reason. \n\nI once tried to open my front door to my apartment with my wireless car keys. I was overworked and tired. We humans can make extremely stupid mistakes sometimes and that is why these protocols are needed even if they feel excessive.", "They removed the propellent, but not the primers. The primer was enough to push the bullet out of the casing.", "Don't bring that shit into this. \n\nAnti gun or gun control?\n\nI don't trust a person that can't see the difference. I don't trust firearms experts that don't bother to recognize some gun control is warranted, beyond holding it with two hands, BECAUSE THEY KILL PEOPLE\n\nEither way, it's irrelevant. \n\nI'm just gonna say it's your fault for not being there.", "No one? \n\nAlright we're done here, you can't see it any other way", "This makes a ton of sense, this is some hollywood bigwig prop studios daughter, shes priveleged and wanting to show off, she takes the gun to shoot rounds to get street cred \"oh wow what a badass\" this makes a ton of sense esp since they are in the desert, the desert is such a great place to shoot so people want to while they are out there.\n\nShe has to be the one to clear the weapon and bring bullets out, she is atleast 70% responsible.", "This is the kind of thing Ive seen over and over, that they're not capable. This is absolutely not an attack on that, what you've said is right. What I want to add is that in most cases (with pistols at least) it is a two (maybe three) step process, aka not hard. If someone is going to handle a firearm for any reason they should have to know how to clear a firearm. Period.", "The AD isn't getting out of this easily either. He had no business handling the gun at all.", "There is no such thing as an accidental discharge. Any unintended discharge happens because of negligence, period. Accidental discharge is a term that was made up to make people feel better about their own ignorance when they screw up and let a weapon fire at the wrong time.", "I mean, it was pretty obvious I was commenting an obscene racist comment to show the OP how stupid their comment was. And now it’s deleted so I guess it worked?", "Jesus Christ, you people are dense as stumps.\n\nNOT EVERYONE KNOWS RULE 1!!!", "1. There was a squib round (like one of those fake bb rounds, but they left a live primer in it) and it lodged a BULLET in the barrel\n\n2. The blank pushed the real bullet out of the barrel, killing Brandon", "I still don't understand how a live round would end up on a movie set? Are there just live rounds laying around everywhere?", "That’s what I was after! Thank you, stranger. Reminds me of that video of the instructor at the gun range firing the revolver by mistake. One of the people asks “did you mean to do that?” and he says “yup” but clearly looks shaken to the core.", "The Armory master was union though wasn’t she?", ">Do you think a woman with a gun is more or less likely to be victimized than one who is unarmed? \n\nShe is probably slightly less likely. I think most crimes happen before she has a chance to make the gun known. She is, however, more likely to die of a gunshot wound.", "> deffo didnt know it was his stunt double that pulled the trigger\n\nThe one with his stunt double was a separate incident. Apparently they'd already had 3 accidental discharges on set prior to this shooting. Which is fucking crazy.", "Did they?\n\nSounds like they didn't have proper training to me.", "Nope.", "Fuck, I misread it and that is definitely worse. The more Im hearing of this the more it sounds like this outcome was inevitable", "Yeah. Honestly I thought he gave some great insight without speculation.", "Jesus Christ you couldn’t sum up Reddit in its modern state, more gloriously, than with my comment, the downvotes, your reply, and add that to all the other Baldwin front page vids, and you have a gigantic oxymoron of biblical liberal nonsense and agenda …\n\nWow\n\nEdit: since you all are mutants and brain dead, let me spoon feed you nephews\n\nIn EVERY SINGLE THREAD ABOUT THIS SITUATION, there has been THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of ppl commenting and replying to not only so called “experts”, but myself as well, saying things like “Baldwin is responsible he fired the gun!!!!” And “why wouldn’t there be LIVE AMMUNITION on an action movie set guys????”\n\nOnly to have thousands of ppl explain it to them, and yet they still can’t wrap thier feeble minds around things\n\nIt’s been like a week since this happened, and it took A WEEK, and then THIS GUYS VIDEO on the front page, for you nephews and Facebook users to grow a brain with knowledge, my 11yo cousin knows….\n\nClassic Reddit lol\n\nJust sad….", "Oh you think people should die so you can watch great gunfire?", "If working has taught me anything it's there's no such thing as everyone follow the rules, much less properly", "\"Professional propmaster uses tragedy to score cheap internet points\" is a far more accurate title", "Fuck, if you wanna learn how to make sushi, you have to train on hot towels for like five years before you can even touch rice.\n\nI know that's extreme, but it goes to show you can't just expect people to know how firearms work. They need proper training and the fact there was even live ammo was the failure of the armorers.\n\nIt's the failure of the producers, Baldwin included, that she wasn't a very good armorer", "Have you ever had a coherent thought?", "Autopilot in aviation can be something as simple as keeping the wings level and the nose of the aircraft pointing at a fixed direction, no more. The general public sometimes think of the AP as something that can fly and navigate the aircraft from takeoff to touchdown.", "God that makes me upset, didn’t know that detail", "His stunt double didn't pull the trigger. That was an entirely separate incident. That's what's so bad about this. They had already fucked up majorly and apparently took no steps to correct their unsafe behavior.", "I didn't watch it, mainly because I'm waiting until they finish their investigation. \nThere is a lot of guess work here, and we might be putting blame on the wrong people. \nSo I prefer to wait and not succumb to \"X is looking at what happened\" without them having the full picture of the events, what really went wrong, and it is mostly based on guess work.", "It could if there was a barrel obstruction and that the blank forced it out of the barrel.\n\nEdit - Not saying this is what happened. Just that it could happen.", "Why would that have changed anything? She didn't get hit because they call blanks live rounds, you call them live rounds in part so this won't happen. Blanks kill people, which is why you call it, and treat them, the same.", "It sounds like that was a different ~~misfire~~ incident a few days before the fatal shooting.", "When you read \"live round\" it could mean blank. A blank is considered a live round. It wasn't necessarily a bullet.\n\nAnd yes they keep blanks on set for real recoil.\n\nEdit: I'm not speculating. In the industry a live round could refer to both. I'm not speaking of what exactly was used here.", "Yeah someone just posted me a link, its sounding less like an accident and more on an inevitability the more I hear about it :/", "I'm curious, are you against excellent coverage of complicated stories?", "er, /r/holup\n\nAccidents with, not accidents by. You can have an accident with a knife and accidentally cut yourself with the knife (accident = cut, with the knife). So the accident is the thing that happens, and the with part tells us what did the damage.\n\nWhat you just said was just kind of stupid, to be honest. Yes, a knife will never jump out of your knife block and slice someone's arm. That's not what 'accident with a knife' means. I can't believe you think that's what it means. Same thing with a gun. 'there are no accidents with guns', oh please. Get a grip.\n\nI'm not American invested in some gun debate, but just a user who is pointing out some stupid phrasing which makes no sense and should never be used.", "Not to be technical, but you mean a squib round.. Basically the bullet fails to fully discharge due to a bad powder load and sits in the barrel usually trapped in tight.. When they loaded in a \"blank cap\"round which has basically a live amount of gun powder it created enough force to dislodge the previous bullet killing Brandon Lee.\n\n\nThe casing is usually ejected as it could never actually fit down the barrel.", "this would be completely impossible to happen in any decent civilized and developed country where random people can't own killing machines.", "So teach them. Nobody should be working with guns around others without a gun safety course.", "he's a fairly new content creator, I love his stuff, I've seen him post a bunch of tiktok styles shorts to YouTube, he might be creating content for both.", "\"Random expert here with the answer though I have none of the details\"", "Shut up dickhead", "Brandon Lee. \n\nBobby Lee is the asian dude on MadTV.", "A regular blank killed that TV actor 9n the 80s, put it to his own temple and the blast killed him.\n\nAnd this Guy 'on the cart', shit should be locked in cages on a cart withtwo keys or similar, leaving any weapons out is crazy.", "There is a reason we standardize language. When it comes to safety it's even more important.", "I'm not an expert\n\nI'm not a firearms guy\nNor am I \"anti\" \n\nBut i can tell you what...i would NEVER have bullets on set. Prop bullets that look realistic. Blanks for firing. \n\nThat gun would be unloaded, loaded by me, handed to the actor by me, I would show them it isn't loaded, or that the bullets are blanks. I would even unload it and reload it with the blanks just to be extra double super sure.\n\nI'm NOT an expert. \n\nBut I'm smart enough to know this guy probably knows fuck all about guns. \n\nAnd THAT should be the zero-th rule of gun safety:\n\n assume the person knows fuck-all about gun safely and teach them rule 1", "Every single person in charge of props and safety on the set and every single person who touched that gun is at least partially at fault for not checking the gun before handling it.\n\nEdit: apparently Baldwin was also an executive producer for the film, which in my mind makes him even more culpable for this accident. Ultimately the buck stops with him.", "Here, I'll give you all the training you need for free, don't point guns at people and especially don't do it and pull the trigger. You don't need proper training and more than 2 braincells to know you're a negligent idiot if you do that and people end up dead.", "I would get a lot of times it's ego .. \"it won't look real or look good\"\n\n\nReally though most gun nuts who watch movies with guns see so many things that don't look right, sound right, function right, our entire scenes where its one gun model for majority of the scene and then cut to close up and it's a different gun..", "The rule 0 of gun safety: assume they know fuck-all about gun safety, teach them rule 1.", "you'll likely never think of any of thispast theend of this news cycle.", "Are you telling that anti NRA Alec Baldwin never bothered learn the most basic rules of the thing he wants to ban?", "I don't think they treat them the same. They do fire blanks towards each other. Probably not a good idea to do that with a projectile.. Unless they want the movie to be more realistic", "For some reason you think a situation like a movie set with fake props and actors pretending to be other people for a camera is the same thing as being on the battlefield or hunting where your sole purpose is firing real bullets from a real gun to kill something. \n\nYou hand someone a Nerf blaster, are you going to expect them “check the chamber for a live round” or use any other real gun safety?", "Which knot did you tie?!", "This is why protocols exist. They are designed with multiple points of failure needed for a catastrophic event. Sounds like this protocol has a single point (asst. Director) of failure? Can't be that simple otherwise the protocol itself is junk.", "You don’t have to load a knife and pull the trigger to get cut. If someone is hurt by a gun it’s either malice or negligence.", "Using blanks has always been safe and it’s going to the most realistic looking.", "You really should start seeing your psychologist again.", ">\tand I have never heard of one just “going off” on its own\n\nI have known people that were shot when loaded guns discharged after being dropped. \n\nI’m aware guns don’t drop themselves obviously, but let’s not pretend that accidents with guns never happen.", "You're the one that wants them stabbed.", "Nah it's cool I like learning appreciate the info.", "He said all the things I was thinking.", "Bullet is what I meant but redditing before coffee is always bad. Appreciate the info.", "It's enough to cause a squib.", "It was an actual bullet as I recall. The prop master wanted the revolver used to appear loaded so they removed powder from cartridges and reinserted the bullet. They forgot the primer. So when the gun was fired the primer snap was enough to push the bullet out of the case into the barrel a little ways. Then they loaded blanks, and the powder charge finished firing the lodged bullet.", "calling it Blank doesnt help.", "Are you trying to say that Kurt Russel killed that guy?", "It could but very unlikely. The squib didn’t go all the way through Brandon Lee.", "Brandon Lee was killed by a lodged bullet in the barrel that was propelled by the blank fired behind it. \n\nAn improperly prepared \"dummy\" round was loaded first and when the trigger was pulled the primer went off, but there was no powered so the bullet was pushed into the barrel where it lodged. Then, without clearing it because it was either overlooked or ignored, they loaded the blanks which when fired propelled the bullet almost as fast it would have been going if it were fired as a regular bullet.", "Tinfoil hat time. What if this wasn't an accident, but actually *MURDER?* Don't get me wrong - Alec Baldwin was the patsy in this.\n\nFrom what I've read, 7 members of the crew walked off the set very recently citing several things: not being paid for 3 weeks, hotel room issues, and of course gun safety concerns. After walking off set in protest police were called and 4 non-union workers were brought in.\n\nSeems like if I were the police I'd be checking to see if one of these 7 set this up - knowing the film shooting schedule, one of them placed a live round in the pistol figuring the armorer wouldn't check things and an \"accident\" would happen shutting things down.\n\nThe whole thing set up by a jilted set worker as punishment for getting screwed by production.\n\nWhere is Columbo when you need him??", "Yep. And the script supervisor's 911 call where she goes into the AD yelling at her. Granted that wasn't the time or place for that comment but when you add up that, him 'grabbing' the gun off the table when that wasn't his job then having the the audacity to shout 'cold gun' makes me really want to punch that fucker in the face. Granted the Armourer has ultimate responsibility for checking the guns but I'll be very disappointed if the AD isn't next in line for blame. I've met personalities like that before and I despise them. Who knows, if the AD had not stuck his nose in maybe the cinematographer wouldn't have been standing where she was any longer.", "Doesn't need to go all the way through you to kill you though... Squibs can definitely still kill. Even if they are unlikely. \n\nEdit - It is also very dependant on where the bullet is lodged in the barrel. Obviously, more barrel length it has to travel, the more velocity, and more penetrating power.", "I used to have a c02 1911 that had blowback and looked completely like a real gun firing. They could have done that and added a flash in post.", "The headlines I’ve seen have been pretty horrible. They make it seem like Alec Baldwin is a at fault. He’s pretty low on the list of responsibility for this horrible incident. He’s an actor. He is never supposed to be handed a live weapon without warning. But he makes headlines.", "I thought the strikes weren't happening?", "It wasn’t his stunt double that pulled the trigger. His stuntman was involved in a separate incident.\n\nHow the stuntman fired 2 live rounds kinda depends on things. \n\nLive tends to mean it has gunpowder, but not necessarily a bullet. A round that is not live does not have gunpowder, but could very well have a bullet. 2 live rounds are easily discharged when the trigger of the gun they’re loaded into is pulled twice.\n\nThe term _cold_ means the gun was not loaded. The error is that the gun was indeed loaded (therefore not cold) and with blanks. Very dangerous as blanks are live rounds and more than capable of causing death or serious injury. The safety issue arises because the stuntman was under the impression a loaded gun was not loaded and then pulled the trigger… likely twice.\n\nIncidentally, the article mentions there was a third discharge prior to the crew protesting and walking off set and presumably separate from the stuntman’s incident. This would all have happened before the shot that killed Hutchins, and fired by Baldwin.\n\nIt appears that safety policies were not being observed and this was apparently an ongoing source of problems for the crew.", "I’m mostly being facetious. \n\nI’m sure some are actually professional prop masters. \n\nBut I’ve engaged with a few to ask them questions on their experience and it quickly becomes clear they either aren’t actually prop masters or they were a “prop master” one time on a student production. \n\nA lot of misinformation for upvotes happening.", "Can't vouch for the source but here's a link https://711web.com/armored-chief-in-alec-baldwins-rust-was-nervous-about-experience-level-before-taking-on-the-job/", ">You have to physically push a knife towards skin to break it. If someone is hurt by a knife it’s either malice or negligence.\n\nGreat argument. Throw another one at me!\n\n>Someone had to put their pedal on the accelerator in the car to physically hit the car into the six year old who sprinted out from between the parked cars, with no stoppage time. If someone is hurt by a car it’s either malice or negligence.\n\nWe could do this all day, because it's stupid and ignores all common sense.", "What I've read he and most of the original crew left for the strikes.\n\nBecause recently there's been massive strikes for Hollywood movie support staff being used as paid slaves.", "I was actually agreeing with you, my comment was supposed to be sarcastic 😭", "\"People\" - like multiple?? No modern firearm will fire from being dropped.", "The Three Rules of Playing with Guns.\n\n1. Don't play with guns.\n2. If you're going to break rule 1, don't lie to others or yourself that you're not playing with guns. admit that you're playing with guns. ^(If you're getting paid to play pretend that you're a cowboy or pistolero that doesn't mean you're not playing with guns.)\n3. If you're playing with guns which is against the rules, now that you've admitted it, it logically follows that you shall do everything else rationally necessary to make sure that you don't shoot someone. ^(this includes not merely taking someone else's word for it that the gun isn't loaded, you shall check the gun yourself.)", "Why would they have live ammo on a set to begin with?", "This doesn’t apply on a movie set, they’re literally filming a close up of someone holding a gun up at someone else, the camera needs to be up close right in front of the barrel of the gun, with the camera operator directly behind the camera. Additionally the actor needs to have their fingers on the trigger. \n\nSidenote: trigger discipline didn’t exist/wasn’t taught until after the 1970s. \n\nThat’s why all these elaborate safety protocols exist because they’re doing something you’re not supposed to do with guns, i.e. pointing them at things you don’t intend to shoot, relying on the gun being unloaded or not loaded with real bullets. \n\nIf this case goes to trial (I highly doubt it) there is a slim chance the shots from the multiple cameras that would have been filming the accident will be made public.", "Considering there was one shot and it went through her and into another person, I'm guessing it had to be an actual round that was fired.\n\nA blank can't do that unless we're talking about a Brandon Lee situation and that seems unlikely.", "The Sig Sauer P320 had an issue with firing after being dropped a few years ago. They have since revised the design though.", "Yup. One of the stuntment just made a public statement on his Facebook essentially blaming the producers for the death due to them repeatedly ignoring all the safety violations that were going on.\n\nThey were also treating the crew terribly, overworking them and not providing proper accommodation so many of them had to sleep in their cars.", "The first run of Sig P320's would like a word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7si_VQsGA\n\nHell, there is even a model of Taurus pistol that can fire just by being shaken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fn6GFSwTEw", "lol well I apologize, you know how sarcasm is hard to read sometimes\n\nAlso, as you can obviously tell, I’ve been fending off these idiots in my inbox since the incident, because idk if I’ve ever seen so much misinformation spread, soooooo fast in my life lol\n\nJust tons of DM’s and replies of people that you truly wonder how they’re even able to type on a keyboard and converse with you 🤦‍♂️ \n\nSorry, and thanks for having my back bro lol :)\n\nEdit: btw I also read your comment in a negative tone cuz I got downvoted so fast I was like oh here we go again 🙄", "I place blame on the producers who put her in charge of firearms safety knowing her inexperience and the fact that she's been reported for safety issues in the past.", "Reddit has 430 million active users every month. It's not surprising that there'd be quite a few of them around for these threads.", "Yes, 2 different incidents where the firing pin moved enough to discharge. Both involved older Glocks. And unfortunately there’s a lot of older, less safe guns out there in circulation\n\nEdit: the number of people in this thread unaware of the fact that certain guns can discharge when dropped is proving my point about the potential for accidents", "Can you not link to a news outlet that requires an account just to read a story. Thanks.", "But it hit two people. Went through the first one and hit the second.", "I do want to point out that being in the Union is not an indication of skill or ability, especially in film. Nepotism runs rampant in this industry and very often the job comes down to who you know and not how skilled you are, which is exactly what happened here.", "In general you don't even do that, you fire them off-angle and use camera tricks to make it look like you're firing directly, and if you need to be firing blanks (Or even dummys) you do it against thick plexiglass. They fucked up in this one is SO many ways, and this wouldn't have happened it they didn't break ALL of the rules at once.", "[Yup. Here's a public Facebook post by one of the stuntmen, giving his thoughts on the situation.](https://i.imgur.com/lrvCsZ7.png)", "I realize this. But read my edit.", "Watch the video, he explains it well.", "The accidents are due to negligence, and compliancy. There", "SIG loves to beta test on customers. Just look at how many issues the MPX, P365, P320, 556XI, etc have once they reach the customer.", "There IS an actually definition/exact nomenclature for this topic... however those who write/report for the media do NOT know, or understand it.\n\nSquib, dummy, live, blank, etc... are all actual/different things... but if you don't understand one/them, and write a story, there will be confusion.\n\nEdit: spelling", "If it never seems to happen, lets just save the extra hour/money every day since we all know what we're doing.", "https://aimingexpert.com/can-a-glock-fire-when-dropped/\n\nGlocks can only fire when dropped if they have been badly modified. Kinda funny that.", "The docs don't seem to specify if there was a bullet in addition to the powder(blanks) but the object went thru the CD that died and still injured the AD. I have trouble believing that plastic or paper wadding in a blank could do that much damage, even at very close range.", "People who have worked with the AD say he regularly ignored safety protocols. It wouldn't surprise me if he hired her so that he wouldn't get pushback for any breaches.\n\nEdit: This is really telling to me... from the 911 call\n\n\"I cannot tell you. We have two injuries, and this fucking AD that yelled at me at lunch, asking about revisions. … He's supposed to check the guns. He's responsible for what happens on the set.\"\n\nTaking the time to throw the AD under the bus while trying to get an ambulance to site...", "Would a blank be able to go through someone and still hit another person?", "LPT: to get around paywalls, paste the article link into archive.is", "3/1,000,000 is 0.000003\n\nRemove two zeroes to get percents, because 1% is 0.01", "John wick is a poor example, as the night scene where they raid his house is bad cgi and sound.\n\nMaking cgi muzzle flash look real is difficult in scenes like that.", ">The accidents are due to negligence, and compliancy. There\n\ncomplacency", "Damn how bad is the traffic that you need someone armed controlling/directing it.", "Isn't Alec Baldwin a producer for this movie?", "Sounds like a good opportunity for a 3rd party business to be born then, each movie custom making guns would be expensive but outsourcing it when guns are a pretty big mainstay in movies should make it cheaper. There’s always a solution if people are willing to fork over some money, and if its in the name of (perceived) workplace safety…? \n\nIMO the bigger problem at hand is probably just the cutthroat nature of the industry. Seems like from the articles I’ve read if a worker speaks out they’re afraid of missing their one shot in Hollywood.", "Nice, effort on mobile though.\n\nStill, fuck him for posting the link.", "Yes. He's one of the head producers - he owns the production company that was put together for this film. The company is also under fire for ignoring the crew's complaints of safety issues and not paying them for weeks.", "If you are handed a firearm, you check it yourself. Every firearm should be treated like it is loaded with hot rounds and ready to fire until you can confirm otherwise. Doesn't matter who handed you the gun, or who told you it was safe, you always confirm for yourself.\n\nBecause otherwise accidents can happen.", "And why unions exist, to ensure the safety of the workers is respected. Some of the reports said union crew members quit because of protocols being broken and they replaced them with non-union workers. I don't know the protocols for firearms on sets but it seems to me that the only person handling firearms should be the actors or the armorer only, not the AD.\n\nEdit because I commented before watching link but yes, the AD should not be the one handling a firearm.", "FYI for other people who don't know guns, I just learned that rule 1 says, [\"Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.\"](https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/) My intuition says this rule wouldn't apply to movies where they need to film people pointing guns in unsafe directions.", "Firearm rule 1 is: \n\nWell, this is interesting, when i look it up most of them say \"always keep it pointed in a safe direction/ don't point it at anything you don't intent to kill.\"\n\nRule 2 is \"always assume the gun is loaded\"\n\nOr the other way around. \n\nWell, it's a movie, he HAS to point it at the camera, that is the shot they are getting. \n\nSo that rule, whether 1 or 2, is immediately out the fucking window. \n\nYou all really need to get this straight, is it rule 1 or rule 2?\n\nThis is confusing, someone might get killed...", "Now you're just being dumb. \nYou are now blaming the device thats being used in the correct and safe manner (in your case a car being driven on a street, following all traffic laws) when someone else's negligence caused themselves to be injured( walking into the street illegally).\n\nThis is a straw man argument.\n\nThis is the equivalent of shooting a firearm at a range at a target and someone walks out from behind the safety line and gets shot.\n\nThats an accident caused by negligence on the part of the injured not the shooter.", "Obviously not, but you have to understand, these incidents are very rare, and that there's a reason why they do it this way.", "Do you have a source for that? Every report I can find at the moment simply says “live ammunition.”", "You can drop a knife and cut someone or yourself. You can reach for a knife and cut yourself. People get cut on sharp shit all the time.\n\nGuns exists for the sole purpose of killing shit. Every gun is to be treated as if it is loaded. Any loaded gun is only pointed at things you intend to kill. If you follow those rules, no one gets shot. There are no accidents.", "Sounds like the whole industry doesn't have any regulations. These \"protocols\" seem to be something that's recommended. With actual regulations, it means you need to submit info to a governing body regarding your controlled processes, ability to pass an inspection, dedicated compliance employees, approved employees must pass a weapons test, approved employees must maintain an license (annual or less than renewal), and possibility of getting fined/shutdown if you fail the inspection.", "Here’s my question: the worst of these incidents seems to always be related to rounds used in shots where it’s necessary to see the ends in the cylinders so people won’t say “oh look, it’s a prop gun, it’s not really loaded” when they see the film.\n\nIn 2021, why can’t we just CGI the bullets in there? They use CGI for a million other minor things. Using it in this instance would keep people safe.", "Not sure if this is supposed to be a saying because the definition of accident very much so covers this.", "Am American, I own 2 black powder firearms, one is a blunderbuss, one is a Rifle. I don't give a shit about 2nd amendment rights (the ATF doesn't even count Black powder weapons as true guns anyways).\n\nYou are spot on, this whole \"No accidents only negligence\" sounds like a weird protect the gun from blame philosophy to protect their rights to own guns. I like shooting historical weapons because I'm a big history nerd, but at the range I'm surrounded by these odd people with their gun culture. I've heard a lot of mental gymnastics.\n\n\"Guns don't kill people, people do\" etc.", "Yep, and I'm sure the gun nuts would say \"They were being negligent by dropping the weapon!\"", "Who cares?", "Your semantics are not wrong\n\nIn fact, you're correct in with what you have stated", "if im handed a firearm, you are damn well sure im going to verify its safe to shoot.\n\nIf you hand me keys to an airplane, im still going to preflight it to make sure its airworthy and had enough fuel and that fuel isn't contaminated.", "Many news I have read do note that as a film industry term a \"live round\" is any round that has live components in it. So a primer and/or propellant. It makes sense as blanks used in the context of film production can still kill people. This is different from other industries as other aspects are more important for them.\n\nHowever this makes it difficult for us non-industry people to tell whether they mean a round with an actual bullet in it or just a blank round when they say \"live round\". Some have said that it was aparently a real fully functioning round with a bullet. Other sources just say that it was a live round which may mean blank or a fully functioning round. Unless they loaded the gun or handled it after the incident, they don't know anything for certain either and may be drawing their own conclusions too.\n\nNow I am guessing that law enforcement is going to do look at what actually injured the director and killed the cinematographer. They are the ones that will know for sure somewhere down the road but likely not anytime soon.\n\n---\n\nETA: If what he says in this video is the case then it could have been a real round. You do notice the difference between a blank round and a real round by looking at it. The difference between an inert prop round made to look like a real round and an actual fully loaded cartrdige? Not so much, that is the point of the whole thing of an inert fake round after all.", "In the military yo recieve quite a bit of training before a live fire or using blanks. We never had a rattle test for dummies either. Add to that that having to have it loaded the correct way and the cost of an actors time, and being to get this training approved for every actor that handles a firearm that satisfies whatever insurance requires. I expect it is just a bit more involved than clearing a chamber and keeping the muzzle down range.\n\nHell, even with training you wouldn't believe the number of times I saw a round ejected from a private's rifle when the Drill sergeant came to check if it was cleared. This was under ideal conditions of being told what to do and one type of ammo.", "There are accidental discharges that aren't negligent. An old/ malfunctioning firearm that fires from a drop would stop be an accidental discharge, but not negligent.", "https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rust-assistant-director-had-history-unsafe-practices-prop-maker-says-n1282226", "Holy shit who gives a fuck accidents happen", "Seriously, since you all are so fucking certain about \"Rule 1\" \n\nActually look it up:\n\n\"Gun safety rule #1\" \n\n\"Gun safety rule #2\" \n\nGoogle it, you get the same damn answer for both. \n\nWhich is it? \n\nYou people should probably get this shit straight, because your own fucking experts can't agree what rule #1 is.", "Blanks really don't give much recoil at all", "Fuck you for being unnecessarily rude and aggressive.", "Tinfoil hat time.... Baldwin is the producer so perhaps hes ultimately responsible for what happens in his production?\n\nAlso, this asshat called for Cheney to be held responsible for that time he accidentally shot someone so lets hold him up to his own standard.", "They posted pertinent info and cited their source. Maybe go outside or something.", "In this case, union members had previously walked off the set complaining about a lack of safety protocols, so they brought in less experienced non-union labor to replace them without addressing any of the safety concerns.", "Why do they have to use real guns? Can’t they make props that are the same materials, weight & mechanisms as a real gun that aren’t capable of shooting bullets?", "He specifically says he didn't want to say without further information. \n\nHe then got further information...", "Actor is also the producer.\n\nProducer is the one that is supposed to make sure the staff they hire are capable.\n\nProducer is then at fault.... which means the actor is at fault.", "Why can’t we make a very specific ammo that is legally only allowed to be made as a blank. Say something like 9.5mm. Then we make prop guns that only take that? \n\nMake something that is only possible to shoot blanks. A gun that physically cannot shot a live bullet.", "Not true. This “truism” is spouted all the time but just like with anything weird things can happen. \n\nThe sig drop fire comes to mind. \n\nhttps://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/", "My opinion is anyone in a movie handling any gun should go through a basic gun course. Don’t have to be a Taran Tactical but a class/course to know how to handle a firearm.", "Who asked you?", "the blank wouldn't, but any type of barrel obstruction in front of the blank would, just like an actual bullet.", "https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/", "Cry me a river.\n\nBuild a bridge.\n\nGet the fuck over it.", "I'd rather have shitty, fake looking guns in my movies with smoke and shit added in post if that's the only way we can do this safely. It's fucking absurd to have to worry about people dying or becoming traumatized for life after accidentally killing someone on a goddamn film set.", "Completely off-topic but I love this guys videos. He usually posts shorts about just random props and whatnot, along with a dad joke thrown in at the end.", "From what I've read it was the camera team that walked. Pretty sure that Armorer was there from Day 1. They are different unions.", "But it sounds like this gun was supposed to be loaded with dummy ammo (a close-up shot of a revolver.) So in this case the actor isn't verifying it's unloaded (which, as you say, probably wouldn't be too much to ask) but to validate that the ammo loaded in the gun by the on-set armorer was of a certain industry type. Big difference.", "You’re a child.", "There is no recoil with blanks but it's good for lights and sound.", "Nobody gives a flying fuck about your opinion.", "Try a private tab, seems to go around the limit.\n\nAlternatively as others have suggested try an archive link:\n\nhttps://archive.today/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/us/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie.html", "Just a troll cunt. Don't feed.", "TIL my new favorite LPT. I’ve not read so many NYT links…", "And this, in a nutshell, is why libertarianism can never work in the real world.", "I had a sergeant get fed up with lackadaisical use of BFA's(blank firing apparatus that blocks gas from escaping the barrel) during a training exercise. He gathered us all around, took the BFA off somebody's rifle, shoved one length of a cleaning rod down the barrel, and fired it at a kevlar helmet he'd set up with a tree for a backstop about 20ish feet away.\n\nHe then retrieved the cleaning rod, which was now pinning the helmet securely to the tree. That rod passed through the first layer of the helmet like it wasn't even there and still had enough energy to blow through the second layer of kevlar and bury itself about 2-3 inches into the tree.\n\nSuffice it to say there were no more issues with BFAs for the remainder of the exercise.", "Yeah, I did cringe a little when I heard that. It's a shift in language that is still getting adopted.", "You can do everything stated on a phone.\n\nGet over it you lazy sack of wankers.", "He’s a producer so the buck actually does stop with him. He’s ultimately responsible for ensuring safety protocols are followed on set. This is negligence on his part and others", "I imagine they do... Or maybe it depends on the state they're filming in or something. \n\nBut that doesn't mean they're as capable as someone who is literally an expert. Doesn't mean they aren't going to make dumb mistakes that a veteran (that is, someone with job experience, not someone who served in the armed forces) would never miss.", "yea, thats why i said just* a blank", "Ok, let me write it down for you.\n\nI am cutting a carrot using a knife. My intention is to touch only a carrot, not my skin. I am getting distracted and I am cutting my finger. This is an accident.\n\nI am doing a prank by putting a knife next to someones neck. My intention is to not cut someone's skin, just to scare the person. I am getting distracted and I am cutting his skin. This is a negligence.\n\nIn first example I am doing a completely normal thing, in the second I am being a dangerous idiot.\n\nIt is relatively easy to cut yourself by accident, because there are many situations, where we are using it close to our own body.\n\nIt is hard to cut someone by accident, but still you can imagine situations, like where you were cutting off meat from bones of a big game and someone's hands are close to a knife that you operate.\n\nIt is very hard to accidently shot yourself or someone and those cases are extremaly rare, because you are not supposed to point it at anyone AND you are not supposed to even have a finger on the trigger unless you are making a shot AND you are not supposed to shot at anything, if you do not know, where the bullet will stop AND you are not supposed to have an ammo in the chamber, unless you are making intended shots.\n\nThe reason why people are insisting on calling gunshot negliegence is to highlight all conditions that have to be met to shot someone. Yes, you could have an accident with a gun (like a ricochet or exploding ammo due to wrong amount of powder), but most cases when it is called \"accidental\" in the media is not those cases.", "The muzzle flash wouldn’t be trivial if you want to show the light on the environment, causing reflections, shadows, subsurface scattering in the skin, etc. Possible, but could be very difficult. There’s a reason why filmmakers care so much about lighting on set, it’s not trivial to change the lighting in post production.", "The fact that the prop master didn't hand Alec the gun, but instead was the assistant directory, should have made him pause. I'm sure these protocols are a huge part of pre-production. If this is all true, this was extremely sloppy, and someone is in deep. I hope they have very good insurance. They are going to need it.", "He's not the only producer that's why I used plural but yes, you are correct.", "Absolutely. Even some air soft guns look remarkably realistic. At the very least, any cinematography requiring a direct, in line shot with a gun pointed at anyone or anything should be purely CGI/mechanical operation. I hope shit changes after this tragic and completely avoidable situation.", "Sure, you have an expert on site, but the expert and anyone handling the gun should each go through a basic safety check of the gun imo. If they do it wrong the expert is there to tell them how they messed up. It's tedious, but the more people who have to fail at their job for something to go wrong the better.", "A live round refers to the explosive primer in the bullet and not the projectile.", "Professionals are paid to handle the weapons. There is typically a 2 pint check. Why shoul another person (actor) have to also do that job? Obviously the prop masters do a great job because accidental shootings are extremely rare on set.", "\"prop master\" awful fancy name for a guy who essentially is in charge of the toys lol", "Unless you are blinking the exact same time as this fella then you’re dead wrong. I counted like 5 solid blinks in the first 10 seconds", "I can't say for sure, but I'm willing to bet that any movie where you're handling firearms, you have a lot of pre production on how the firearms will be handled. I'm assuming that one of those rules is that you are only to be given a loaded firearm from person A,B, or C. Even taking a close proximity hit to the skin from a blank will mess you up.", "Loading an old/malfunctioning firearm is negligent.", "The union is NOT on strike. Union crews left the set due to unsafe work conditions.", "This is just wrong. \n\nThey put a prop bullet in a revolver for a close up, then put a blank behind it for firing and the props team/armorer didn't check the barrels.\n\nI work in film and am a medic and have been a film medic for 10 years.\n\nI have seen blanks, propane guns, and lots of real explosions. I have participated in MASSIVE SHOOTOUTS where 10-15 people shoot eachother from close range. \n\nBaldwin is negligent as the show runner. The props person and the armorer are at fault too.\n\nNOT TO MENTION THE FUCKING STUNT COORDINATOR WHOS JOB IT IS TO SPECIFICALLY MINIMIZE RISK SUCH AS THIS.", "Yes, but he was also the executive producer for the movie.\n\nIt's his responsibility that they were violating safety protocols. There was a previous gun misfire on the set and some crew left citing safety concerns. But he did nothing, and these are the consequences.", "We don't know the exact details, but multiple people had walked due to the safety concerns, not just the camera team.", "Well no, according to this guy in the video the armor should not have left the weapons unattended", "Couple of reasons\n\n1. You shouldn't take someone's word that a gun is cold, every gun is live until you verify otherwise yourself.\n\n2. More points of failure required for death is good.\n\n3. I'm an anxious and slightly paranoid person.", "Actors are forbidden from doing exactly that for liability reasons. When the prop is handed to them, the assumption is that the people responsible for making the gun safe have done their job which clearly didn’t happen in this case.", "Technically it has multiple points but those all failed. Prop Master/Armorer is suppose to always be at the cart or in view… failed according to the explanation here. \n\nHe doesn’t talk about it here, but I’ve heard multiple other sources say the prop master/armorer went home for the day. That is a second point of failure as they are required to lock up all guns off the cart in a safe if gone/unattended. \n\nNo one, including the AD is suppose to grab off the cart.\n\nThird point of failure. \n\nAll protocols for clearing checks ect were not performed with prop master and AD. \n\n4th point of failure", "There have been reports (not verified yet) that the crew was using the weapon for target practice recreationally before the incident. Someone could have gotten a live round mixed up with dummy or blank rounds.", "By giving a fuck and figuring out exactly what went wrong, new protocols can hopefully be put in place to reduce the frequency of future accidents.", "Because the union people (including the armorer) had already walked off set due to shit conditions and previous issues with the firearms, and the scab they brought in to replace them at a cut rate fucked up? It's clearly human error, but it's important to also look at what led to those humans being put in a position to make said errors.\n\nFilming should have stopped when the qualified people in the crew fucking left.", "I can see what you're saying now. But also that phrase \"just a blank\" is a little indistinct. Does that mean there is just a blank in the chamber, or just a blank in general. Or just a blank sitting on the table with no gun to go into. This is obviously somewhat hyperbole. But also I had just woken up when reading your comment and took it a different way. Sorry.", "My question is why not wear a bulletproof vest during filming. If I'm on a receiving end of the gun be it prop or not I'm wearing a vest 10 times out of 10.", "For military training, we simulated a \"war time\" environment where we had to go on patrol etc, and had to keep our weapons at the ready with live blank rounds throughout the week. The armorers attached some heavy duty barrel plugs that fastened on to physically block anything from exiting the barrel. Was VERY obvious, but it was the only way they could sign off on a platoon of recruits bumbling around with rifles loaded with blanks not managing to kill anyone...", "You know what sucks about being a Baldwin? NOTHING!!!!", "i aint mad", "Alec Baldwin was on set, that’s what went wrong", "I'm confused. How would a blank go thru the guys shoulder into the lady's stomach?", "Ayeee I always like this guy's content.", "Okay but it’s just annoying when the internet hyper focuses on something like this rather than shit that actually matters.", "The actual expert had walked off the set with the rest of the unionized crew. They brought in some scab...", "Reddit is a mansplaination circle jerk whenever guns get brought up", "The media not understanding nuance when it comes to firearms? Surprising!", "Then the issue is upstream of the AD, actual live rounds should never be anywhere near a movie set.", "I mean, i guess it depends on which one.\n\nStephen.", "This guy shot his video vertically. No film guy would do this.", "In that case, a bullet was lodged in the barrel because a \"dummy round\" (no powder) was fired. A dummy round will still shoot a projectile, but doesn't have enough velocity to even exit the barrel.\n\nThey then loaded a blank which has no projectile, but has MORE BLACK POWDER to produce a loud bang and a big puff of smoke. Unfortunately, with a bullet still left inside the barrel, this effectively turned the gun into one giant bullet, which fired the projectile and killed Brandon Lee.", "I had not see that post. That's pretty damning. I take every random snippet and picture on the internet with a few cups of salt, but if everything in that is actually true, I can't think of any counter-points that someone could make to exonerate the producers.\n\nIt's also a little jarring because I pictured Ale~~x~~c Baldwin as a victim here, imagine the emotional pain of killing someone by accident like that. Pulling the trigger. But if he's part of all the corner cutting, my empathy is maybe a little less...", "Apparently, not even the fucking experts can agree on what rule 1 is...\n\n... so don't feel bad if you don't get it.", "Yeah, and If the pro had taught the actor and made him part of the checks then maybe even without him the actor could have prevented some of the many accidental discharges.", "From what I've read, the AD had no business handling the weapon in the first place. It's either the armorer or the propmaster who has control of the weapon any time it's not in the hands of the talent.", "Who said that?", "Gbb airsoft. They kick just fine. Now a revolver won't kick which is what they were using in this case.", "Nope, that's not how it works with guns. If I visually see someone clear a gun and they hand it to me I'm still going to rack the slide and visually inspect the chamber. Being overly cautious breeds habit that prevents negligent discharges.", "This. Gunpowder can drive a lot of different materials into a human, not just a bullet", "I feel like you have to actually try in order to miss the point by that much.", "> I have known people that were shot when loaded guns discharged after being dropped.\n\nI bet you don't. Modern handguns are drop safe unless they've been fucked with.", ">Multiple sources directly connected to the 'Rust' production tell TMZ ... the same gun Alec Baldwin accidentally fired -- hitting the DP and director -- was being used by crew members off set as well, for what we're told amounted to target practice. \n> \n>We're told this off-the-clock shooting -- which was allegedly happening away from the movie lot -- was being done with real bullets ... which is how some who worked on the film believe a live round found its way in one of the chambers that day. \n> \n>Obviously, authorities would want to speak to anyone who had been using the weapon for target practice, and -- more importantly -- to whoever was putting the gun back among others used for filming.\n\n\\- TMZ\n\nSay want you want about TMZ, when it comes to celebrity news, they have the highest accuracy in reporting vs. every other outlet and are often cited by major news networks as sources themselves.", "Well this is great, but let's just solve future problems.\n\nProp guns should be required to be a unique caliper so that no live ammo produced would fit in the chamber.", "This.", "So then how on earth would you make action movies like John Wick? Finger guns?", "I kinda feel like you're missing my point too. If I missed your point then maybe explain it more instead of assuming that I'm not trying to understand you.", "At least remove the firing pin.", "For clarity: a squib is really a malfunction. A squib is what was meant to be a normal round, but there wasn’t enough force to push the bullet all the way out of the barrel. Then it’s considered a squib. Therefore, the next round that gets loaded is about to push a bullet into another bullet and catastrophe can happen.\n\nEdit: so in Brandon lee’s case, there was a squib in the barrel. Then the gas/force from the next blank pushed that squib out and killed him.", "Oh the irony with this comment", "Depends how you look at it. \n\n\nAn accident is a woops! kinda thing.\n\nNegligence is hey we have policies and procedures for literally every step and if you're not following them, that's not an accident, that's negligence.\n\nWith firearms there's like 5 layers of reasons why this shouldn't have happened (I mean, you saw the video) or should have been caught 3 steps before it COULD have happened. That's negligence to me.\n\nWay more than a woops my bad bro kinda moment.", "You're right, if that was the case then the type of ammunition should have been checked and confirmed. Lots of dropping the ball anyway around it, and people trying to pass the blame somewhere besides themselves.", "That because it’s internal to moviemaking. It’s not for gun nuts. \n\nIt’s important on set where you legitimately will be shooting at each other to treat anything using powder as a live round even if the rest of the world considers them blanks. Because blanks can and have killed actors.", "The armorer had apparently left for the day when this shooting occurred.", "Nah it's his, he's pretty popular on tiktok for showing different props and how they're made.", "Baldwin and many others should be charged with manslaughter. Their horrific negligence is what lead to the death and injury of their coworkers.\n\nFirearms don't kill people, murderous intent or negligence with them do.", ">Why are people in the US constantly in 'mortal danger' while in many other countries this isn't an issue?\n\nIf it isn't a gun, there are plenty of other ways to kill someone, and just because you make guns illegal doesn't prevent criminals from obtaining them anyway. Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in America yet one of the highest rates of gun violence. Those arent law abiding citizen's killing each other. \n\nAmericans aren't in any more mortal danger than people in any other country, we just have more freedoms and freedom is what makes America better.", "I don’t understand, why can’t we just make prop guns that look real but don’t actually shoot anything? What’s so fucking hard about that?", "It’s been out since yesterday.", "If this is true, holy shit", "I agree, it must be absolutely horrific for him to have to handle the guilt of knowing his actions caused a death, clearly without any intent. However, he was also co-producer, and therefore (at a minimum) co-responsible for ensuring correct safety protocols on set. We all agree this is a tragedy - but it happened because safety wasn't prioritised, and the buck for that stops at the producer level. I'm sure there'll be more arguments against the armourer and assistant director too, and indeed everyone is likely partially to blame, but I think it will ultimately be the producers (including Baldwin) who will have to take the blame. Additionally, there is the strong argument that he should have personal responsibility for verifying the 'cold' gun, and not just relying on someone else's assessment.", "The gun may have been taken off-set by crew members and used for target practice, according to several sources reporting to TMZ. \n\nThat would explain a lot, actually.", "Why the hell would they even have any real bullets around?", "Whoops", "This sounds like it really falls on the 1st AD. They seemed to be ok with playing fast and loose with the cast & crew's safety.", "I grew up around firearms. As soon as I heard this I was a little angry because these things aren't accidents. Not anymore.", "They absolutely could. Lots of evidence out there, people have been killed this way.\n\nPlenty of YouTube ballistics videos demonstrating this as well", "If your talking about a BFA or blank firing adapter that went on the barrel of rifles (usually a red or yellow metal square with a screw piece that sealed the barrel closed) it wasnt to block anything coming out of the barrel. It's to keep the gasses in the barrel so the rifle would cycle properly. Blanks on their own wouldn't build enough pressure for a rifle to cycle (eject the spent casing, load the next round) etc.", "One thing that's getting me about the discharge of two live round is this is a Western so any handguns are going to be single action revolvers. Firing twice is a conscious action because it's not just pulling the trigger twice, you have to cock the hammer before firing. I don't know if prop single actions are different and made to not require cocking before firing (in a way I could see it so shots aren't ruined with not firing during a shootout).", "They can with revolvers AFAIK. There are inserts in the cylinders that won't let you insert a live round. But from the video they need to show actual bullets b/c of the shot they were taking. They totally messed up here.", "Source for wadding passing thru someone and injuring a second?", "As Michael Caine said: \"You failed to maintain your weapon, son.\"\n\nhttps://youtu.be/c9Z0yr49xXw\n\nAs a gun owner, I'd say that's negligence, that's from a personal perspective, an armorer or a prop master should have miles better standards than me.\n\n\n\nEdit: I've actually got personal story that demonstrates this.\n\nI inherited a WWII 1911 .45 from my grandfather (has his social security number engraved on the slide) now I've been around guns since I was little, shot them and Field stripped them and maintained them. It looked good to me, even had an army buddy over and looked at it too.\n\nStill there was no way in hell was I shooting that gun without taking it to a professional and having them take a look at it. I did, and it was fine and he shot it on the range and he offered me 2k cash (I declined) but the point is, I did my due diligence to make sure an old firearm was safe before I shot it. And the prop master/armorer should have as well.", "Maybe teach actors to clear firearms properly?\n\nYou should always verify yourself the condition of the firearm; just because someone with experience who has the title of armorer/gunsmith/instructor tells you the condition does not mean you should trust them. You can easily implement protocols for safety in this situation with proper education. It takes at most 5 seconds to verify if it's loaded or not and with what type of cartridge (blanks, simulation or real live rounds)\n\nComplacency kills.", "Cash in on that tragedy.", "It's not just the film industry. Incompetence from nepotism is plaguing pretty much every industry. The real problems happen in cases like this where safety is jeopardized for everyone else because of it.", ">Blanks are dangerous as fuck.\n\nFor sure.. just ask Daffy Duck.", "Shotguns are still very often not drop safe.", "cutting corners to any protocols and regulations is the job and money maker in all industries.", "Blank adapters. \n\nAnd yes other poster is correct. It was to help rifle cycle next round. \n\nNot enough pressure in the rifle to kick the chamber back and cycle the next round. Usually the bullet blocking the opening in the rifle discharges gas into the gas tube to push back the charger. Without a round, the gas escapes the tube. So you put a blank adapter on it so gas will enter the gas tube.", "Live ammo means its teasy to go bang\n\n\nNot that ot has a bullet in it", "The scene they were filming pretty much required violating rule #1 -- always point in a safe direction.", "So much this", "\n>I bet you don't. Modern handguns are drop safe unless they've been fucked with.\n\nI'll bet he does if any of them werr hunters handling shotguns. Your standard pump action is not designed drop safe.", "Calling something an accident means no one is at fault. \nThe point is that any incident involving a firearm could have - and should have - been prevented by proper handling, care, and conscientiousness.", "The rule of thumb is treat every gun as if it’s loaded. There are no accidental gun discharges, just negligent ones.", "Can’t rain all the time", "I don't believe it either. Assuming the person who handed you the firearm did their job is exactly why someone was killed. \n\nYou verify yourself or terrible things may happen as we see here.\n\nIf Baldwin was educated properly he would have seen the condition of the gun, and if the rounds were real he would easily be able to visually identify that as well. This is a classic case of firearm safety complacency.", "It's possible that they were intending to use live (with a projectile) rounds for closeups instead of custom made props or deactivated cartridges. That's speculation on my part though. \n\nAlso, supposedly several of the crew members were using the gun for target practice, while on the film set. I'm not sure if that's substantiated, but if it's true then it is a grossly negligent thing to do. Especially with a weapon meant to be later used as a prop.", "Of course! I'm just saying the rule of \"always treat a gun like it's loaded\" wouldn't work on film sets because you'd never be able to point it at anyone.\n\nAlso, there are already stringent protocols in effect, which is why this hasn't happened in decades. This set wasn't following the protocols and a combination of terrible errors led to this tragedy.", " Ok. What do you consider “modern”? One of the incidents I’m referring to happened in the 1980’s, and plenty of guns in circulation are on the older side \n\nI’ve been around guns long enough to know they absolutely can accidentally discharge from being dropped \n\nhttps://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/", "I don’t know what type of revolver they were using, but I’m guessing it was very likely a double action considering the second shot was accidental.", "Cheaper to buy real bullets and pull them apart into blanks than it is to buy real ones I believe. \n\nUnlikely to be this, but its basically what happened on the crow when Brandon Lee was shot accidentally, because they were too cheap to buy blanks so stripped down real 44mag bullets they got from a pawn shop", "If the armorer did their job, no one would have even been allowed to walk up and grab a gun, let alone take it back to the set. Both are in the wrong, and the producers are in the wrong for allowing these jackasses on the crew at all.", "There are no mistakes, only happy accidents", "It's a fact, you people can't even get it straight.", "Exactly. From everything I’ve read there are two people that are mainly responsible for this accident. The armorer who is in charge of what goes into the firearm, and the Assistant Director who falsely claimed that the gun was cold when he handed it to Baldwin. \n\nAs I see it the actor Baldwin has zero fault for the misfire of the firearm, all knowledge provided to him by the responsible parties indicated the gun would not discharge when the trigger was pulled.\n\nAs a co-producer, Baldwin holds responsibility for the conditions on set, including safety, but even that is more of an indirect fault as he still obviously has to rely on his employees to follow safety protocols.", "so theyre leaving a place due to unsafe working conditions and they wont come back until the owners fix said issues and set a plan in place to prevent said conditions from happening again...\n\n&#x200B;\n\nwhere have i read that before... was it the textile industry strikes from the early 1900s where workers was striking for better working conditions... na cant be that because that was a strike. and this clearly wasnt them striking.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nmaybe it was the strikes of the auto industry where thanks to unsafe working conditions and low wages put a lot of pressure on workers.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nwait no cant be that, because that was a strike and this wasnt.\n\n&#x200B;\n\ncan i stop being sarcastic over here? please? i cant keep this going for much longer.", "BINGO! \n\nyes, many mistakes were made and someone died \n\nIt's really collectively all their fault.\n\nNo one person is at fault, but I'm not pointing fingers. I'm also not a lawyer or a judge, someone may actually be determined to be at fault here", "https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/\n\nI wouldn’t bet your life on it", "The P320 and Remington 700 were once \"modern\" at some point y'know", "Those are literally nothing alike as far as instances go. And if you wanted to compare them (you can’t, really), it’d be more like a “try flying!” tourist being handed control of the yoke after you’re already in the air. The tourist will have, rightly, assumed that the commanding pilot already made sure it was safe and that nothing they’re doing could affect whether they crash or not.", "That sounds great in theory, but in practice you often don't know that something is malfunctioning until it malfunctions. It's like saying \"you shouldn't plug in a malfunctioning toaster\", you usually don't know that the toaster is malfunctioning until you plug it in.\n\nOf course if you already know that something is malfunctioning and you still use it in a dangerous way, that's a different story.", "There was a projectile involved. Whether it was because someone was using the weapon for target practice in between takes (reported but not confirmed in this case), or it's an incident like The Crow where a different kind of prop cartridge lodged a projectile in the barrel that was never cleared before switching to full-flash blanks is not known yet. \n\nAlso correction: The projectile went through the first victim's chest, leading to that fatal wound, then into the second's shoulder. He was standing behind her and the projectile had sufficient force to punch through one body into the other.", "\"Producer\" gets thrown around in hollywood way more than it should. It's a catchall title for anybody in charge of anything from selecting the script, coordinating writing, directing, editing, arranging financing, fucking craft services. \n\nBeing a \"producer\" doesn't mean you're in charge of every part of the movie, usually just a tiny aspect, and all those producers answer to an executive producer.\n\nIs Alec Baldwin an asshole? Yes, he's got a long documented history of being a pretentious twat, but he wasn't the propmaster, assistant director who improperly grabbed the gun off the cart, and Baldwin wasn't even mishandling the gun, he was pointing it at the camera for a closeup. Baldwin is a victim in this, and he'll have to live with that the rest of his life.", "Im not disagreeing with that.\n\nIt only takes one person to break the chain of events in this situation. From my perspective if actors/actresses are taking guns from someone else and trusting the condition because they are ignorant in proper safety procedures this will happen again one day. You simply cannot trust others when they hand you a gun. \n\nIt's so unfortunate how easily avoidable an incident like this is. I'm sure this is a wake up call for all productions moving forward though", "Makes sense to me, call it and treat it as a \"live\" round even if it's a blank because a blank is also dangerous or potentially just as dangerous. Why not always treat every gun on set as if it's a live gun? Would that slow them down or something? The compulsion to play with the gun is too much for these adults?", "At 7:30 he fires a shotgun round with a plastic wad into a pineapple from further than pointblank https://youtu.be/elpAaZs_U9k", "Live rounds can be blanks though so they're different but also inclusive so it gets tricky", "how often does this happen... i'm so sad for everyone involved", "No the stunt double was before! 2 incidents where the stunt double discharged live rounds (unsure if that means live in the movie industry sense which can mean blanks or actual live-to-us rounds) before this happened and safety concerns raised by workers...\n\nedit: Jings dinnae downvote the guy, it's an easy misunderstanding due to how fucking unbelievable it is", "That was a great explanation. My next question is, are they going to edit the real shot into the movie? Or would it not look right?", "That's kind of the point of a ring light though. You mount your camera in the middle of it to get even lighting across your whole face.", "It's not a 100% fact, it's a TLDR \"dont be fucking stupid\" statement that applies to everyone and isn't up for discussion among gun owners.\n\nDont be fucking stupid. Handle your guns with care.", "What the fuck is wrong with his eyes? Anyone else noticing this?", "That doesn't sound right... Blanks are not more expensive, and certainly not a significant cost in an average movie budget. Also, \"pulling real bullets apart into blanks\" sounds very laborious, and would be simply stupidly risky for zero gain.", "100% right\n\nIf a weapon shoots with the safety off and the trigger pulled, it's working as intended. It's up to the person handling it to know what's in it and where it's pointed.\n\nEdit: Clarification, the above is true for most firearms and weapons useage. But in the particular environment of a movie set, it's the job of whoever is responsible for the weapons being loaded/unloaded to make sure they're safe to use in a scene/shot. There are protocols for this that clearly weren't followed. So if a performer (presumably without the training or expected responsibilities of the armorer/propmaster/etc) is handed something by a professional and told it's safe, it's not their fault if the other person didn't do their job properly and something goes wrong.\n\nMaybe the rules will change so absolutely everyone down the line, including the actor holding the weapon, is expected to be able to fully check if the weapon is properly loaded before shooting (both meanings) starts. But that's not how it is now.", ">Also, blanks can be dangerous by themselves.\n\nSee: Jon-Erik Hexum", "She should do prison time.", "No one. Just like no one asked for your douchey comment. You need therapy.", "I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they use real weapons as props. Makes no sense.\n\nDo they use real bombs with fake timers? Real grenades with fake pins?", "Hey gun guys.....Don't worry. Covid made everyone stop blaming yall for the issues. You are officially off the hook and we have moved on to blaming everything on Covid and Gender issues.", "If what he said was accurate there were some major f\\ck ups there.\n\nHow in the hell are the weapons not secured? That's just incompetence. How the hell is an AD allowed to just grab a gun off a cart? I'd think an armorer or prop master handles that to make sure all safety precautions are taken.\n\nWhy was there a live round on set to begin with? Did they really allow production crews to use guns? What the actual f\\ck?!\n\nI see somebody mentioned that the actors aren't allowed to check weapons but I'd think SOMEBODY with the right skills checks a weapon right before it's given to an actor. Especially one that being “shot” at a camera. \n\nSo he was pointed at the camera and shot? No damn way would I be behind the camera in the line of fire. Setup the camera, use a remote to start filming and get out of the line of fire. I'm not blaming her, just another potential safety procedure.\n\nThis is another \"swiss cheese\" incident - several things went wrong there, not just one.", "Mamie Mitchell, the script supervisor", "> we just have more freedoms\n\nThat's certainly what you like to convince yourself of.", "I mean, I'm not a \"gun nut\" but that was my feeling. My grandpa-in-law was an old school NRA member and told me about a \"women's rifle training class\" his chapter was having at their private range and because I've always felt a strong revulsion to guns, I figured I should explore that and get getting up close for the first time.\n\nWe had roughly two hours of lecture and 1 hour of range time. What I came away from that class with was, a feeling of how powerful and dangerous guns are - even \"little\" bolt action rifles. \n\nMaybe it's more a credit to the teacher but he made it clear that gun safety can't be an afterthought. Even the aftermath of firing a gun, having the chemicals on your hands and clothes is a safety hazard for humans and animals. I couldn't fathom how so many people can see it as a truly \"fun and enjoyable hobby\"\\ while also fully respecting and understanding the weight of responsibility. \n\n\\* I'm specifically talking about folks who are cavalier and/or performative with guns, the kind of folks with hilarious \"assault life\" bumper stickers on their cars. Folks like this man and others who do demonstrate caution and seriousness with regards to handling weapons I can understand - it's more a fascination and respect for the power of the weapons.", "Apparently it's cheaper.", "Source? The New Mexico filing for Rust Movie Productions,LLC shows a Georgia-based parent company attached to Stephen R Foreht. He is the producer of ‘Crown Vic’ a 2019 movie by the same director as Rust. Other than speculation, it’s Not clear at all from the public record that Baldwin owns the company", "He owns one of the production companies, El Dorado Pictures. That's different than a vanity credit.", "I’ve seen many other people saying a “live round” is anything with gun powder including blanks, as blanks can also be dangerous as close range. This guy says a live round has an actual bullet too. \n\nSo in this case when they said it was a cold gun did they mean fake rounds,, no gun powder or blanks?", "“A lot of misinformation for upvotes happening.” … aka Reddit", "Someone bought real .44 bullets, prop guy takes them and puts them in his trunk. When they feel they need bullets for a scene, he gets them, removes the gunpowder, and replaces the bullet without removing the primer.\n\nThe primer was enough to lodge a bullet into the barrel, but not completely. When Brandon's scene came up, they used a \"full powder\" blank and with the .44 bullet still in the barrel it became the same as shooting a fully loaded .44 at him.\n\nAnd anyone who reloads ammo wouldn't find the process all that laborious. They didn't need a case of ammo made, they only needed a few rounds.", ">\tUnfortunately, the SIG SAUER P320 has shown an unacceptably high potential for firing when dropped on a hard surface in at least one general orientation: on the back edge of its slide.\n\nDropping a loaded weapon is indeed very negligent.", "The reason is authenticity basically. When you're using what's essentially an antique weapon, it's not like with a Glock or whatever where there are 50 productions a year using them and there's an industry producing replicas good enough for movie work but not able to fire actual ammunition. Any non-firing weapon would have to be custom-made and that means at least two of expensive, time-consuming, or not very good looking.\n\nTo get a good-looking revolver on a budget - especially because this particular shot was going to be an extreme close-up on the gun - the simplest thing is to use real guns, because you can borrow them for a bit and then give them back to the owner afterwards. As far as I know, this film does not have a huge budget.\n\nIf you follow all the protocols properly this is perfectly safe.", "You can also place blame on the producers for putting her in charge, but it’s still ultimately her failure to uphold and enforce safety protocols of her department.", "Bullets have a lot of force behind them. I'm not sure it would be possible to get that much mass moving to simulate the recoil, and if you could it would probably have the potential to be roughly as dangerous as a firearm anyway.", "That's not what he's asking you though.\n\nHe's asking for a source showing that a blank round carries enough kinetic energy to over penetrate the target.", "If someone handed you a gun, telling you it was not going to fire, even after the gun DID accidentally fire 3 TIMES prior to this time, would you trust them?", "That's a 12 guage shotgun, and it blows the pineapple up. The 9mm doesn't even seem to affect the pineapple, let alone propel anything all the way through it.", "I hear you. I do wonder how many guns the AD grabbed since filming began though.", "The guy talks about dummy rounds for scenes where the cartridges can be seen though, so really no reason to use a live round in any scene? Considering there were several safety protocols breached it really does look like corner cutting and negligence lead to the incident.", "Alec should be charged with manslaughter. Ironically, if he had hired an NRA consultant, none of this would have happened.", "Except that's literally what they did. It was likely laziness or time pressure to have blanks available asap, so they made them. They also made their own dummy rounds, and failed to activate the primer on all of them, so between two different scenes they shot a bad dummy, lodged a bullet into the barrel, then fired a blank which had enough force to propel the bullet with lethal force.", "Meaningless semantics", "So not only does this not show wadding going thru one object into another, it's also a shotgun. In addition point blank does not mean basically at the end of the barrel. It simply means at a short enough distance that you do not have to account for bullet drop.\n\nAgain, I have trouble believing that any sort of wadding in a revolver/pistol could be shot thru someone and still have enough power to strike and injure a second person. You have provided nothing to indicate that this is possible.", "Nope. Straw Man Argument on your part.\n\nYour example is flawed because to make them comparable, you would need to literally hand the firearm to the tourist and be constantly next to them, ready to take control back, and make sure they didnt point it at anyone. Thats what the pilot in command does when he hands over controls to a tourist. He is there to immediately take control of the aircraft.\n\nMy comparison is much more accurate as they are handing over complete control of the firearm to the actor the way they would be doing if they wanted him to fly an aircraft without a licensed pilot at the controls.", "What a trash fire of an article. It reads like 3 first drafts put together", "I work with weapons on set from time to time. A \"live round\" in set terminology is really anything that goes bang. So it could be a real bullet (HUGE no-no on set, ever), or it could be a blank (you still never use the same prop for blanks and dummy bullets, that's been protocol ever since Brandon Lee died).\n\nAs the video states, there were an insane amount of breaches of safety protocol on this set, it's no wonder the union crew walked.", "Three problems.\n\nThe amount of gas/energy coming out of a shotgun is massive compared to to a revolver. Secondly, the pistol he used that example did not have enough energy to pass through the pineapple. Third, it also passed through the camera. So there is really 3 objects that the bullet hit.\n\nThe odds that it was a blank is about 0.", ">This is the problem with left wing idiots trying to impose gun laws on responsible gun owners. \n\nI'm sorry what", "Right? I'm also surprised at how many people think \"prop\" guns are treated any differently from real guns on set. You have to assume that if it looks real, it might be, until you personally verify its safety first hand.", "Back when I did basic firearms training, we were taught to always assume every weapon is loaded until you have personally confirmed that it is clear. Actor or no, that rule still applies and if you point a weapon that you haven't personally checked is clear at someone and then pull the trigger, as far as I'm concerned you are responsible if they get shot.", "His TikTok following is huge.. maybe bother to look him up before making fairly sexist comments.", "Why are these", "I’ve seen plastic wads do plenty of damage. Perhaps not the best video but I really don’t have time today to find this for you.\n\n!remindme4days", "The whole thing is just mind-numbingly stupid on multiple levels. \n\nThere shouldn’t have been live rounds anywhere near the gun. You shouldn’t ever point a gun at anything you don’t want to kill, even if you’re positive it’s not loaded. This is gun safety 101.", "Professional editor here: You will certainly notice blinks at 24-30 fps. They take about 3 frames to happen (sometimes 2 at 24 fps).", "That they look more real down the barrel. That's how Brandon Lee died, instead of buying dummy rounds, a gun guy just hammered a round to dump the powder, then reinserted the bullet into the case with a live primer. Primer still propels It misfired and stovepiped. Next shot they fired a blank, blanks have much more powder for big flash and to cycle the slide without resistance of a bullet. Overpowered blank easily drove the stovepiped round out the barrel\n\nTldr it takes effort to make sure your fake bullets aren't killy, and cutting corners literally plays with fire", "He may just be a producer on paper. Instead of part of his salary he gets a producer credit and partially owns the film. It’s pretty standard stuff and it doesn’t mean he had anything to do with the actual running of the production. He could have also put everything together and is micromanaging everything. The fact he’s listed as a producer itself is practically meaningless here until we know more.", "If a weapon is in your hands, you assume it's loaded and will kill whatever it's pointed at until you've personally verified that it's safe. I don't know why actors think this rule shouldn't apply to them, but it's a fundamental rule in gun safety and Alec's failure to clear the weapon and subsequent fatal shooting is exactly why the rule should apply to everyone, actor or no.", "At some point, IMO, loading a weapon known to have a high rate of accidental discharge becomes negligence.", "Union members generally know and follow safety protocols, however. Non-union workers cannot be assumed to have any knowledge of how things should be handled for a safe set.", "I mean, that sounds good but it's not actually true. One example is if you have a defective round from the factory that blows up in your face, that's not negligence. You could argue that the manufacturer was negligent, but they could have all the process safety implementations in the world and a defective round could still occasionally slip by.", "humans make mistakes all the time but the minute its a gun its negligence", "Aye, I couldnt believe it! The fact that this was 2 separate incidents is barmy. I also had no idea \"live\" meant the weapon was blanks. In the army, live rounds are....well, live rounds\n\nLike, there's so much info saying different shit out there, this whole productiin seems like a cowboy shit-show. Its so shit for everyone involved because its so preventable :/", "Because we don't have the technology to make gunshots look real without using a real gun. Our CGI is good in many ways, but gunshots are very very hard to get right.", "No, that's not true. Blanks have a completely different load from live rounds, as well as a plug to contain the force, to burn powder completely. They're also often steel as opposed to brass to tolerate higher forces. Regular bullets generate cycling action by equal and opposite reaction from the bullet. Blanks must push off air, therefore pack a huge load.\n\nThe Brandon Lee tragedy was because they had dummy rounds to show bullets with tips being loaded into gun on camera, and separate blanks to make poof of shooting. Their shitty diy dummy round had a primer and enough force to stovepiped a bullet, the much beefier blank easily unjammed it and pushed it out.", "Well, whatever policy is forbidding the actors from clearing their own weapons just resulted in a fatal shooting.", "On a set with proper safety protocols in place, gun stunts are some of the safest stunts performed. Just for holding a weapon that is incapable of firing (no pin, no spring, etc), at least three people check that the weapon is clear and safe before filming begins.\n\nThe set of rust was a disaster. Every single step of the process was in violation of safety protocol.", "All the producers?", "Link plz", "This sounds like something a gun manufacturer would say to displace blame. Never is a strong word.", "Except he was told that it was not loaded. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/alec-baldwin-was-handed-prop-weapon-by-a-crew-member-who-yelled-cold-gun-court-document-shows/ar-AAPR5Ub?ocid=sapphireappshare", "Oh you’re so edgy, everyone is so impressed.", "Why the fuck is live ammo allowed on a set at all?", "Even if it's not his fault there was live ammo on set, he was almost certainly aware of the previous accidental discharges that happened on set. And he was definitely aware that the crew had just walked off the set in protest of unsafe work conditions.", "I don't think that's been corroborated from this instance but that's what happened on the set of The Crow", "The number 1 rule in firearm safety is to never assume a weapon is safe unless you've personally cleared it. If he was handed a weapon and didn't clear it, then he should have assumed it was loaded.\n\nHe broke that rule and as a result someone died. Hard not to hold him ultimately responsible.", "Gotta push that agenda no matter what", "You'd think that would mean they'd take the rest of the rules extra seriously.", "Yeah, I mean are we talking legally or just about our feelings? \n\nBecause it really doesn't matter how we feel about it.", "From what i read they walked off because of long hours, etc. Not necessarily safety issues.", "In the case of revolvers, it makes sense. There's no action on typical revolvers that require the gas/blowback from a cartridge to cycle. You can load rat shot, different loads or bullet grain sizes, or blanks without affecting the function of the weapon. Same with any manually operated weapon, such as pump/slide/lever-action shotguns or rifles.\n\nIn particular, revolvers tend to be loaded with real-looking dummy rounds since the tips of the cartridges are usually visible through the cylinder, or even the barrel. So it makes sense to not modify the weapon, since blocking those openings would be obvious to a viewer. Therefore the safety measure have to be much more stringent, which they clearly neglected in this case. \n\nSemi-auto or full-auto weapons are trickier to use with blanks, since they generally require the gas blowback/recoil from the brass to eject empty cartridges and load new ones. To convert those weapons you need to partially occlude the barrel, use full-flash loads, file down actions so they disengage with less force, replace springs with lighter ones, etc. It varies from weapon to weapon.\n\nIn almost every case, blank-converted guns cannot load live, projectile-firing rounds without causing serious damage to the weapon itself and possibly the shooter.\n\nIn my opinion, if the weapon can in any way still shoot projectiles from its barrel, intentional or otherwise, it doesn't belong on set. Using VFX or 'non-guns' is preferable, and much safer. But the real failing here is the poor set conditions and negligence of the crew, who clearly weren't operating safely.", "Basically like a mini jackhammer. It wouldnt have to be exact, just enough to help the actor", "That's the same with all accidents. Pedants go \"hurr there are no accidents\". We call them accidents because something unintended occurs, not because no one is at fault. I guess a more proper term could be mishap, but it's still nonsense to argue that oversights aren't accidents. If that's the case, accidents cannot exist.\n\nIt's the same idea in something as simple as knocking over a glass of water. It's due to negligence, which could be mitigated with a bit more alertness, but the situation is still called an accident.", "Where are you getting that he chose to hire this armorer?", "Yeah, I remember an article there had already been firearm mishaps on the set before this tragedy.", "You don't have to choose between them. Firearm safety is really quite easy and extremely reliable.", "There are 0 exceptions to the rule, that’s why it works when followed.\n\nYou should never point a gun at anything you wouldn’t want to kill, even if you’re positive it isn’t loaded.", "Must be nice to live on your planet where things are so predictable and well defined. Lucky you.", "It sounds like it could be very similar in circumstance to Brandon Lee's death. If they were working with both dummy bullets and blanks, there could have been mix up in which there was a blockage in the barrel that was pushed out by the blank.", "Idk maybe just don't pull the trigger?", "Which is completely fair. I am not defending anyone's actions here. I am sure some very expensive lawyer somewhere came up with that rule. Hell, if they want to keep things the same have some sort of checklist attached to all weapons on set that clearly states that someone went through the steps to safe them and do not start shooting the scene unless said checklist has been verified. As someone else said, complacency just robbed someone of their loved one.", "Another prop master on Tik Tok specified that it was in fact a live bullet, and that there was a plexiglass partition between Alec and the Director and DP. This particular plexiglass would have stopped a blank but the real bullet ripped through like paper, passing through the DP’s stomach and also hitting the director. This jives with the reports that there were bullets on set because someone in the chain of custody for these guns was doing recreational target practice with them.", "If they haven't been through basic firearm training then they shouldn't do a movie that requires them to handle guns.", "Live round on movie sets refers to blanks", "I'm not talking about law or anyone's feelings, just providing more details about the set.", "I think the two main rules are \"don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy/kill\" and \"treat every weapon as if it's loaded until you have personally cleared it\". Which one is #1 and which one is #2 doesn't really matter. What matters is you follow both.", "You and I had very different military training, lol.\n\nIn the U.S. Air Force basic training, we had a short safety and handling course in the morning and shot M16s after lunch. It was bitterly cold, we only shot ten rounds, and there was no qualifying for Marksman.\n\nSo yeah, I agree with some of your points, but I do think that any entertainment professional that works with firearms should take a safety course. \n\nYou make it seem like it's this crazy expensive ordeal to give everyone some kind of firearm safety. It can be done en masse.\n\nAlso, some of the different types of ammo are incredibly obvious they are different. They're manufactured like that on purpose... it then simply becomes a matter of teaching recognition.\n\nIf everyone takes the training, everyone is held accountable.", "All of this. Have worked in the industry and have been a weapons master for several productions.\n\nEvery gun that has graced the hands of any actor, excepting extras way in the back of a shot, has been a genuine weapon capable of firing bullets, purely because it's cheaper to have real guns in the shot than it is to require a bunch of post-production editing to make them look more realistic after the fact.\n\nBecause I'm not a negligent hack dumb enough to (allegedly) use an active prop weapon for personal target practice, I've never had any such issues. When I am weapon master, I am the only person with a key to the locker they're kept in, as well as the only one that handles the ammunition. All assistants (if a large enough production to be necessary) are drilled constantly on gun safety and are fired on the spot if I see them break any of those safety rules.\n\nThis tragedy is the result of multiple levels of negligence in weapon safety, some of which can and should be punished criminally.", "what i find wierd is its 2021 almost 2022, how can this happens ? sad for the loss of a family member ! not the first one that happend and scary this is going on ?!?", "Old guns can be uncovered already loaded.", "That's not what they said.", "The fact that they had live rounds on set at all, and the failure to properly inspect a weapon before it's fired is where the issue lies. You are completely correct that there's no reason to use a live round. The propmaster and armorer should have been present and aware of the state of each weapon, which is usually what happens on sets that are running properly. \n\nI say that the revolver shouldn't have been able to load both dummy rounds and blanks interchangeably, lest it lead to a mistake like this or the one that lead to Brandon Lee's death. The dummy loading guns should be completely deactivated, firing pins removed, etc, and be clearly separated from blank weapons. Said blank weapons should have their barrels occluded or be modified to not fit projectile-loaded rounds.", "Yeah this thread is \"tell me that you've never shot a gun,\" without saying, \"I've never shot a gun.\" \n\nWe train with blanks all the time in my job... and that includes pointing them at each other during scenarios. We train with simunition too and even then the recoil is noticeably different.", "You can't follow one of them, it's a movie. \n\nHe's pointing the gun at the camera, for effect, for the shot. \n\nFor them to follow this rule, the director/cinematographer should not have been directly behind the camera", "Negligent discharge, not accidental. There's nothing accidental about someone putting their finger on the trigger and pulling it.", "I disagree... after working for a while I definitely notice a difference in most union vs non-union workers. Union members are far more experienced and professional, generally speaking.", "On the last movie she worked on, the armorer handed an unchecked gun to an 11 year old and the crew immediately intervened and forced her to do her job. Your argument here would blame the 11 year old for the glaring error and inexperience of the armorer.", "It doesn't matter if you have 1000 people all swearing on their mother's lives that a firearm isn't loaded. When someone hands you a gun, you assume it's loaded. Even if you think it's stupid, even if you think there's no possible way it could be loaded, even if it would make no sense for it to be loaded, even if it would break the laws of reality for it to be loaded ... it doesn't matter. You always check. Always.", "I was just thinking. NOT BOBBY LEE!!", "I maintain my weapon properly, meaning when I clean it I tear it down and check every part for damage or signs of wear.\n\nGuns aren't magic, they aren't electronics, you can see if an important piece is failing. Guns don't just go off, primers don't just set off. It is absolutely negligence to ignore a firearms condition when considering it's use.\n\nEdit: lol downvoted for being a responsible gun owner, go figure.", "I'm a professional editor and I act between editing gigs. Mostly background and gun stunts (firing guns; I've yet to be shot at). I've used everything from a revolver to some kind of german special forces assault rifle (full kit that night, it was a super fun shoot).\n\nYou are correct that the actor should be clearing every gun they touch.\n\nWeapons protocol is that the prop master demonstrates to the actor who will hold the firearm, the 1st AD, and anyone the firearm might be pointed at (cast or crew), that the weapon is clear. They do this by putting a rod down the barrel, or shining a flashlight down it so you see a perfect circle on the other end, or showing everyone the firing pin is missing, or sometimes disassembling the weapon to reveal there's no spring, either. They also remove any magazine or clip or open the cylinder (depending on weapon type) to show there's no ammo. Then they hand the weapon to the actor (the AD never touches the prop). The actor then repeats the action and verifies that the weapon is clear. Then anyone the weapon will be pointed at is given the opportunity to request it be demonstrated safe again.\n\nFrom that point on, the weapon is never out of the control of the actor. If there's a fight sequence and a weapon is knocked free, at the end of the take, the prop master collects the weapon, clears it, demonstrates it safe all over again, and then returns it to the actor, who also demonstrates it safe all over again.\n\nIn the case of rust, literally everything went wrong. Either a real bullet was in the gun (how the fuck this happened is beyond me), or a dummy round got stuck in it a'la Brandon Lee. Either way, that shouldn't have mattered, because the weapon should have been rendered safe and clear by the prop master. It wasn't. Then the prop master apparently left the weapon (and others) unattended on a cart near set. Gross negligence. Once chain of custody is broken, you have to assume some unknown party could have put ammo in your gun, and you need to render it safe and clear all over again. No one did that. Then the AD just picked the gun up off the cart (holy shit why is the AD even touching a prop of any kind, let alone a weapon???) and did not render it safe and clear at the time of picking it up. Then the AD told everyone on set that it was a \"cold\" weapon, meaning they told the set that they had verified it was safe and clear. That's a fucking lie! Then the weapon was handed to Baldwin, who should have demanded it be demonstrated safe and clear before ever accepting it into his possession, and who should have verified it was clear himself after taking it. Finally, since the shot was to aim the weapon at the camera, the DP should have verified the weapon was free and clear (I hate to speak ill of the dead, but if someone is supposed to point a firearm at you on set, you should really make sure that firearm is safe). And the director, who absolutely did not need to be there and should have been watching on a monitor, also was standing in the line of fire and also did not verify the weapon was free and clear.\n\nSo literally everyone involved fucked up big time, and fucked up repeatedly.\n\nAnd of course this is after the weapon accidentally discharged at least two previous times, and after the union crew walked off the set due to unsafe conditions.\n\nI should also mention that since Baldwin was a producer on the project and the biggest name actor by a mile, I feel that a lot of the responsibility falls to him. He had the power to enforce safety standards and he did not. He issued a facebook post paying lip service to the crew who left, but if he really agreed that things were unsafe, he would have not hired scabs and would have walked off the set himself in solidarity. I have also heard rumors that the AD never once held a set safety meeting, which is crazy, since you're supposed to have one every single day that firearms are on set.", "Maybe he said it like an offhanded comment, like the gun was physically cold to the touch, so he was like \"oo, cold gun\" as he was passing it to Alec.", "This incident has re-sparked my interest in prop making/handling and weapons-mastery. I'd like to know how I could get into such a field.\n\nFor reference, I live in Pittsburgh and have some unofficial production experience as well as a few years of military, if that helps.", "I live in Wilmington NC and they still speak of Brandon Lee in hushed voices on film sets around here as a cautionary tale. There is no excuse for this to happen post Brandon Lee death. That incident is a case study for any prospective film armorer.", "IA is not on a general strike. This was a walk-off of one set for a variety of reasons, which did include unsafe working conditions from what we've learned. But there is no general strike in film/television.", "I'm not a POC or part of the LGBTQ community but I still care about their rights. This comment very much feels like you're saying you only care about rights as they benefit you. Also, it's kind of funny that a dude who is into black powder guns is calling people that are into different firearms \"odd\". \"All these weird people with their pop music! Why don't they just listen to 1920s jazz pieces played on a harpsichord like me?\"", "Pretty sure she wasn’t there when this happened. It’s been reported she walked off set with other crew members in protest of unsafe working conditions.", "I'm far from an expert, but for dummy rounds, wouldn't it make sense to have them aim at the floor and fire through the bullets as a last resort to double check if anything fires?", "In a scenario where you are required to break one of the rules, you'd think that a responsible firearm handler would insist on being completely and absolutely sure of everything.\n\nYou don't say \"well we're breaking one of the rules, guess we just break the rest!\" On the contrary, they become vastly more important.", "I mean, every industry is also plagued by networking. Nepotism on its own is the same deal, it's putting inexperienced people in the wrong roles that's the real problem here", ">As a gun owner, I'd say that's negligence\n\n\nThis argument is so tired on Reddit.\n\nYou can argue that it's more accurate or more responsible to call it a negligent discharge. That doesn't mean it isn't accidental unless you think someone did it on purpose.\n\nEDIT: I'd like to add, the whole \"there is no accidental discharge, just negligent\" makes sense in the context of firearm safety training courses to alter your perspective and make you think more about how responsible you are in the case of accidents and the steps you should take to make sure that they don't happen. That doesn't mean that this mantra changes the definitions of the English language.", "Isn't this just being pedantic? Every accident is preventable. \"I accidentally spilled my glass of water.\" \"No, you were negligent in your handling of the glass.\"\n\nAn \"accident\" implies something is unintentional, not that it couldn't have been prevented.", "I agree.", "Correct on all counts.\n\nSource: Weapons Master for multiple productions, both stage and film.\n\nIf a weapon was in use, I was on set. Doesn't matter if I'd been working 16 hours up to that point. Until every last weapon was locked up and accounted for, I did not leave. Anyone that touched a weapon without my express clearance was fired immediately. Anyone too high up for me to fire would be yelled at until they apologized or producers needed to be called to resolve the dispute, at which point I'd tell them to have the idiot of the day stay out of my lane or they'd be hearing from union reps.\n\nEvery last blank came from my hand, inspected by my eyes, and were counted meticulously. I also cleaned every weapon at the end of the day and inspected them between scenes to ensure I wasn't responsible for a repeat of Brandon Lee in The Crow.\n\nThe multiple levels of negligence in this case is staggering.", "I really don't care to look up any TikToker before I make any sort of comment... It's the internet, relax.", "Hurrr let me comment on something when I wasn't even there. DURRRRR", "No it's worse. The stunt double had accidentally discharged a \"cold gun\" days before Baldwin himself did. They fucked up once, people walked off over it and other safety concerns, then it happened again and somebody died", "Imagine the horror of being the actor in this situation. Same with the dude that killed brandon lee. \n\n\nJust standing there. ears ringing, hand numb, heart pounding, wondering what the fuck just happened... but it doesn't end at that shock. Somebody was injured... then the realization that somebody PERISHED. \n\n\nThats heavy stuff.", "You have to work like 600 hours on set to join IATSE so it’s an indication of experience if not actual skill.", "Ahh I see. Totally forgot to change it to a percentage. .", "An accident is something nobody did on purpose. Negligent means that it could and should have been foreseen.\n\nIf your friend is chopping some vegetables and the knife slips and cuts their hand, do you say they were negligent, because they could have followed proper knife safety, or do you call it an accident? Calling your friend negligent in that situation is pretty damn rude even if they did something wrong.", "I know, that's why I asked because most people are saying blanks, but what he's saying is actual bullets.", "I know for a fact they've done this. A shitty movie overall but the guns the main character uses in The Shadow (1994) - ironically also Alec Baldwin - were engineered to have massive recoil and flash just from normal prop blanks. And they look AMAZING.", "Misfire is when the gun DOESN'T go off. Watch the vid.", "Absolutely wrong. The only time your weapon should be loaded is when you intend to fire. Anything else is negligent.", "Beyond being a very tragic event, I think this is actually a very interesting case study in how the media portrays events like this. Take the major players here:\n\n- I don't think anyone faults Baldwin for this incident - he was an actor and producer on this movie, and could reasonably expect that prop weapons will be safe because it is the job of other people to ensure that.\n\n- Halls, the guy who handed Baldwin the gun and said it was \"cold\", is now being portrayed as the guy who should take the blame. They're saying a bunch of crew had complaints about him, etc. He very well may be an asshole and it's not entirely unreasonable to say he's negligent, but consider that what the gentleman in this video is describing is his experience of what should happen on a set. ADs don't need a degree or license to make films. If they make a bad film because they suck at making films then that's definitely on them, but their responsibility only reaches so far, especially concerning a hazardous component of the film for which another person is hired to do that thing.\n\n- The propmaster or armorer is responsible for the guns. The person who brought the guns to the set should ensure that anyone handling them is doing so properly. That's my opinion, not a fact. I'm unclear after reading these comments whether \"live\" rounds in this case were blanks or actual rounds with bullets. I've never seen the term \"live\" used to refer to blanks. If there were rounds with bullets involved, it seems reasonable to think the person who brought live ammo to a movie set is the one that was negligent and at fault. That was not the AD.", ">\twhen cops showed up, they found live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area\n\nThe negligence at this set is glaring.", "Long hours leading to overwork is a safety issue.", "Some people are further confusing it by also apparently being industry people but saying stuff like 'There's no place for live rounds on set, ever', when obviously live rounds (blanks) are used all the time. \n\nIf it was really a real round with a bullet, then it was even bigger negligence", "Is it not requirement to go through gun safety training? If there’s even a one percent chance of this happening, I would think you should go some kind of safety training", "Nepotism runs the world lol.", "Link please?", "Scabs are what happened. Support unions", "I really don't know if he had anything to do with the actual running of the production or how that might affect how much responsibility he holds in this scenario, but I do know there is a concerted effort by people from the likes of /r/conservative doing any mental gymnastics they can to lay as much blame on Alec Baldwin as possible.", "The veiled sexism is what gets me, though. You don’t need to look up anything to be respectful.", "I did but I don't see the relevance here.", "Let me be even clearer: he owns the production company. And he is a producer. And actor. Who shot the gun. \n\nGet it now?", "> No one.\n\nI'm glad we can agree", "> Personally, I don't think a blank would push a squib round out of a revolver. I suppose it's possible, but there is a gap between the revolver cylinder and barrel the gases can escape from a blank.\n\nIsn't that exactly what happened on the set of The Crow with Brandon Lee?", "Movie was killed too.", "Lol imagine being this pathetically starving for attention.", "A shovel doesn't accidentally dig a hole.", "But the effects are that of a real bullet. Passing through one person and into another. Couple that with the fact it was ment to look like a real bullet on a close up shot, not a blank, leads me to believe it was in fact a real bullet.", "That’s the thing though, he didn’t assume it was empty or safe. He was told by the person responsible for making that check beforehand that the rounds visibly loaded in the gun were dummy rounds. It’s not like Baldwin picked up a random gun and pulled the trigger, he trusted the experts in charge to do their jobs and believed the AD when he TOLD him the gun was safe to use in that scene that involved a trigger pull pointed at a camera. \n\nIt was a revolver where the rounds are visible and need to look real for the camera. You can’t personally “clear” the gun, because it was supposed to have real looking bullets that wouldn’t actually fire. There is no way for an actor to tell the difference between a dummy round that looks real, and a real live round, which is why the armorer is supposed to be the one that loads the dummy rounds, and the AD is supposed to check with the armorer that the rounds are indeed fake BEFORE handing it to the actor and declaring it COLD.\n\nThis wasn’t your uncle’s backyard or Boy Scouts. Two professionals, the armorer and the AD were supposed to have checked the gun before even bringing it near the actor and the safety of everyone on set relies on them for providing accurate info about what a firearm is expected to do.", "Sometimes the guns will have “dummy” rounds in them. Which is a round with a projectile but no powder. These rounds are used when you have shots with bullet visible such as down the barrel of a revolver. Maybe a live round was mistaken for a dummy round or something. Either way if the AD handed the gun to Baldwin instead of the armorer it’s already a fuck up. Should never be that way.", "He may not have made the choice alone, but he is a producer on the movie so he is responsible for that choice.", "So many posts about why this was very unlikely to happen and will stop happen again, it's almost as if they're afraid this will be bad for gunsales", "It’s wild. Literally an expert thoroughly outlining the facts, laws, and possible outcome and you get downvote lol.", "> because in real life has you have explained the armorer won't let a stranger get close to the gun or ammo.\n\nBecause real life is a platonic ideal bereft of negligence, human error, or social engineering.", "If you carry a firearm for defensive purposes, waiting to load it until needed could get you killed.", "As with any aspect of the film/theatre industry, it's about building a portfolio of your marketable skills.\n\nIn Pittsburgh, you'll have more luck with theatre than film, since most film hiring is done out of the LA or Atlanta areas these days. Not impossible to find film work since there could be a show or movie being filmed on a location near you for whatever reason, but still more sparse and the odds of positions you need being filled before production moves out there is higher.\n\nJust apply for any old production job, whatever it takes to get you on set, but make sure your portfolio includes every skill and experience you have. I've had friends upgraded from an extra to a speaking role purely because they could produce a convincing sneeze on command.\n\nOnce you've managed to get on set, ingratitate yourself to everyone you can. Production work is 70% networking. Everyone high enough on the ladder to be able to hire their own team absolutely has a list of their favorite people to work with and those people always get called for work first. You basically need to make a good enough impression on people that you'll be thought of as soon as all the people on that short list are too busy with other productions to answer the call.\n\nLook up film/theatre casting websites/social media groups that you can join in order to get news on productions that are hiring in your area in order to know what jobs are out there.\n\nBe prepared to work like a slave. Props departments are expected to produce magic on shoestring budgets and that usually means you'll be pulling ungodly hours turning a pile of thrift store finds, mod podge, and paint into convincing equipment. Adam Savage has a ton of in-depth videos on YouTube talking about his time working for props and modeling departments. Having those visual representations will be better than any picture I can paint with mere words.", "He pointed a real gun at a person and pulled the trigger. Literally violating the first rule of gun safety espoused by the NRA", "Just because I recently saw a video about it: They used a modified bullet where they only removed the powder, so they had a bullet with the normal tip and a primer. The primer was strong enough to push the tip forward and it got stuck in the barrel. A couple of days or so later they reused the same gun with a blank: That is a bullet with primer + powder, but only a small piece of cardboard as a tip. Since it had the normal amount of powder and the real bullet-tip was still stuck in the barrel, it was plenty enough to kill the actor that was standing in front of it...", "Kinda just sounds like you’re going to make whatever claims you want, regardless of their accuracy, just to point a finger at him. The point where when challenged, you just move the goalpost.", "Yah but do that kind of math on covid and watch the downvotes pour in lol.", "Yes but I think that is because they are talking to non-industry people. That is why people need to ask what they are talking about and not just repeating the words.", "Accidental discharges are a thing, and usually refer to a mechanical defect causing the gun to discharge when not expected to.", "What I don't undestand is why they use real guns at all.. making a realistic gun that don't kill people sounds easy enough.", "ITT redditors thinking they are firearm experts", "Yeah that's what I meant when I said deactivated rounds, sorry.", "Why? Why should someone else shoulder the blame for the mistake of another? If I fuck up a statistic my university lecturer doesn't shoulder the blame. He taught me the right way, it's my fault if I fuck it up.", "But all my conservative friends are blaming Baldwin and saying he ia cruel murderer and should be executed.", "That too", "Wouldn't occluding the barrel of a gun intended for blanks be even more dangerous? Blanks still have gunpowder in them, if the barrel is occluded, firing the blank would either fire the occlusion out the barrel the way a bullet would be, or break appart the gun pressure in the barrel and firing chamber having nowhere to go.", "You can function and/or drop test any unloaded firearm to see if it’s safe to load. Common occurrence for people who collect.", "I think you missed the point entirely, which is the norm when talking about guns on Reddit. My \"planet\" is doing well, thanks.", "All the dipshits online blaming Alec Baldwin for this can fuck right off. He is a victim too.", "\"Don't be fucking stupid\" that's an advice i will keep close next exam. I'll report back to you if it worked! thanks", "Yeah, I don't understand it either. It's weird.", "Then you better know how to handle it. Don’t drop it like a nitwit", "IIRC, it wasnt shot out of a blank. The rounds were modified to be dummy rounds, by removing the projectile, empyting the powder, and placing the projectile back in. Problem is, they forgot to remove the primers.\n\nThe primer in the dummy round had enough force to lodge the projectile into the barrel, leading the way for the blank, with a gunpowder charge, to act like a live round the next time the gun was used.", "65% tops", "Sorry, Alec, no more exams for you. Check your rounds next time. If the gun is in your hands, it's your responsibility.", "Where does it say it was an FMJ?? This article says exactly the same thing as every single other article….", "Yes, the production company Rust Movie LLC was created specifically for this movie because it's an independent production.", "It's worse than that. They werent bonafide dummy rounds, but \"makeshift\" dummy rounds that the prop team made from real, live ammo. They forgot to remove the primer and it lodged a real projectile into the barrel.", "we were already at toasters in the arguement, calling me alec and giving me a firearm isn't going to save your post", "Handguns are small, it might be tricky to get a realistic force without adding bulk to the prop.", "I don't know if everything in the picture is true but the picture is real. I screenshotted it myself from his FB account.\n\nHe made the post public and was trying to draw attention to it so I don't think I'm violating any rules about privacy here.", "Blank rounds are also referred to as live rounds, which is causing a lot of confusion.", "wow that is a crazy amount of procedures and clearly there is a reason for them. this is such a sad incident", "The thing is this \"live round\" apparently went through someone and injured another and I don't know of any blank rounds that can do something like that.", "It's not an argument, it's a blanket statement that's being picked apart by people on Reddit as if it's a true statement 100% of the time. And I didnt make the statement, either.", "I agree with the overall sentiment everyone is saying here but Remington recently dealt with a pretty big issue with its 700 models malfunctioning\n\nhttps://www.inverse.com/article/28068-60-minutes-remington-700-trigger-recall", "Yes it is.\n\nedit: source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4oWpnuAOk", "Don't think we need an expert for this!", "I'm sorry you got offended on the internet. How was I being disrespectful or sexist?", "Agreed, but like the live ammo confusion accompanying this story, safety concerns might be ripe for confusion as well without clear explanation.", "Well designed firearms only fire when the trigger is pulled", "I'm not excusing this, but the reason is money. It's much cheaper to use a real gun with special ammunition than it is to construct a modified or fake gun that still looks and acts like the gun it's supposed to be.", "Everyone's a fucking expert after the fact.", "My first thought was why the hell was there live ammo anywhere near those weapons to begin with...\n\nI can definitely see how it can spark some conspiracy theories, but unfortunately I fear that the truth is simply that there was an idiot out there or multiple that didn't follow the rules.\n\nEdit: Also this guy's shorts always pop up on my YouTube home screen, he's very informative and entertaining, you should give him a watch", "Why?", "Blanks are considered live because they still \"explode\" when they're shot.", "True on all points but the one thing that I fail to see being mentioned is that Mr. Baldwin pointed a gun at a person and PULLED THE TRIGGER!\n\nIf he had simply followed the single most basic and important rule in firearm safety then it doesn’t matter how many mistakes were made prior. The whole thing is a tragedy or errors but Mr. Baldwin holds the ultimate responsibility in this circumstance.", "Hanna Gutierrez Reed", "I should add normally this doesn't happen with proffesionally made dummy rounds, but the crow staff decided to make their own rounds.", "which kinda ironically brings it back to alec baldwin. If safety concerns have been constant issue through-out production, and he as a producer choose to not invest in skilled labor/equipment so safety standards would be met, then hes partially culpable. \n\n\njust how its looking, it seems like the ppl managing the production are to blame for creating an unsafe work environment", "Now try driving an old car and try to get away from an accident with \"neglect\" or something.", "You are very confused about real life gun safety vs movie sets. If you followed real life gun safety in movie sets, we simply could never have movies with guns in them. If you are a gun owner, you should understand that pulling a trigger has nothing to do with safety - if you even so much as point a barrel in the general direction of something, you should assume your gun could go off at any moment and shoot / destroy that thing or person. Pulling a trigger is far past the safety “phase”. Or do you not know that true # 1 rule of gun safety? Because we want movies with guns in them, protocols are completely different on a set, and someone, but not Alec, fucked up lethally for an accident like this to happen.", "Money.", "There are at least 2 levels of culpability Baldwin faces here: as an actor and a producer.\n\nhttps://www.actorsequity.org/resources/Producers/safe-and-sanitary/safety-tips-for-use-of-firearms/\n\nI see several items here that were not followed by the actor - do you want to keep defending him??", "It’s becoming obvious a lot of rules pertaining to film sets were broken for this to occur. Having an NRA consultant adds nothing when a set is functioning properly and the prop master plus first AD (who is the SAFETY MANAGER on set, not a director’s little helper) all do their jobs to prevent stuff like this.", "> Personally, I don't think a blank would push a squib round out of a revolver. I suppose it's possible, but there is a gap between the revolver cylinder and barrel the gases can escape from a blank.\n\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4oWpnuAOk", "They were doing target shooting during off hours with the real rounds.. Baldwin is going to be arrested for his negligence of protocols on set since he was the executive producer.", "Because tabloids aren't reliable sources.", "I get that your one year old account has been used almost exclusively to bitch about the Baldwins. WTF is wrong with you? Did he insult your orange god?\n\nNobody thinks Alec or his wife are saints, but to have an account dedicated to it is fucking bizarre.\n\nGet a life loser.", "I don't see where you are getting that at all...", "Sorry, I meant to say partially occluded. Like there's a choke that forces the gas to stay compressed for longer as it exits the barrel. \n\nHaving fired blanks from a military service weapon with a blank adapter screwed into the barrel, I can tell you that unless the blank is drastically overloaded with powder, there's very little danger of a blocked barrel destroying a properly blank-converted weapon. The bolt will want to move backwards and expel much of the gas with the cartridge, aided by the gas system in most semi-auto weapons. In the military we simply use the plugs to keep the weapon from firing gases out while allowing the weapon to have enough pressure to operate realistically. You just don't get a muzzle flash, like with movie guns.\n\nEven with full-load live rounds, semi-autos can jam if the gas doesn't produce enough force to move the bolt, or even if they aren't held correctly. It's highly unlikely for a weapon to explode if the barrel isn't completely blocked by something that can resist the force of the gases.\n\nAlso sidenote: the aforementioned blank adapters of military rifles in training are also there so it's SUPER OBVIOUS that the rifle is in a state that it can fire projectiles.", "I work in props in Atlanta, and we have never used the word ‘live’ to refer to blanks. It is very odd, they are different words.", "Why did Baldwin point the gun at the DP? What is the protocol for \"down the barrel\" photography?", "I keep seeing people saying Alec Baldwin was the “producer” and that his company was the “production company.” I even see people saying he was the “lead” or “head”. This is inaccurate and needs context because it’s way, way more complicated in filmmaking. \n\nThis is going to be long, but people need to understand how independent filmmaking works before they grab their pitchforks and roast someone at the stakes.\n\nRust, the film that Halyna Hutchins tragically lost her life on, has 8 production companies: Bondlt Media, Buffalo 8 Productions, Cavalry Media, El Dorado Pictures (Baldwin’s company), Highland Film Group, Short Porch Pictures, Thomasville Pictures and CAA. \n\nCAA Finance is the acting finance and sales rep, meaning they oversee raising all the money and finding the distributor. In this case, CAA brought on Highland Media Group as both production company and distributor. How do 8 companies, including one owned by a famous actor all pile on a “low budget” movie like this? This is how it works:\n\nIt starts back in 2018 when Joel Souza makes Crown Vic. Joel Souza at this point has never made a movie. So he writes the script for Crown Vic, it gets shared with agencies that somehow or another lead him to partnering with producer Anjul Nigam, who will later play a role in Rust. \n\nSomewhere in the process of making Crown Vic, Anjul Nigam (who probably knows Baldwin personally) goes to Alec Baldwin and asks him if he’ll come on board Crown Vic as a producer. This is a very common tactic for small films who need publicity. They attract a “name” like Alec Baldwin who agrees to put his name on the film so that bigger actors will think the project is validated and festivals will give the film attention, so they can ultimately sell the movie. Baldwin and his company (El Dorado) slap their name on the film and get financial participation on the sale of the film and the little film gets a publicity boost that helps it make that sale. It’s a win-win. But make no mistake — Baldwin isn’t “producing” in the way you may think a producer makes a film. He’s not making phone calls and coordinating casting sessions. Anjul Nigam is doing that.\n\nCrown Vic ends up premiering at Tribeca, a major North American film festival, and selling to an indie distributor named Screen Media. It garners enough attention that Joel Souza, the first time writer/director parlays this into being repped by Gersh, a mid-major talent agency in Hollywood and a manager, Matt Delpiano at Cavalry, that later of which will come into play on Rust later. And even better, Souza's fostered a positive relationship with Nigam and Baldwin. \n\nSouza then writes Rust. He shows the script to his manager first, Matt DelPiano, and DelPiano says this is great. DelPiano becomes the first “producer” because he represents Souza. DelPiano says “let’s take it “out”. And because they have a relationship with Nigam and Baldwin from his first film — they all “partner”. Nigam attaches as producer, Baldwin attaches as an actor and one of two paths happens next. Either they take the film to CAA, the biggest agency on the planet, first or they “package” the film by casting it. Most agencies will want to plug their own actors in a movie, and most of the actors on this film aren’t CAA clients. Baldwin is at ICM, Fimmel is at Paradigm, Ackles is at Gersh etc… this indicates to me that Baldwin and Souza probably package the movie themselves first. \n\nThis means they make offers to actors for the role themselves. Very simple. You send an official offer to an actor's agent with all the details of the project and how much money you’re offering. The actor (hopefully) says they’re interested. In this case, Souza meets with them over coffee and explains his vision for making the film. Actor says he’s in or out. \n\nAfter Souza and Baldwin get their main cast for Rust — Nigam, Baldwin and DelPiano (the producers at this point) take the film to CAA and CAA Finance looks at the package and agrees to find the money for the film for a percentage fee.\n\nNow, this is where it gets complex. In order to get this film financed and made — they need partners. Because CAA doesn’t want to assume the risk of financing a small movie. So CAA goes to Highland Film Group. Highland is the big dog finance company here. They’ve got the most clout. And CAA says, “Can you finance this film and maybe even distribute it?\" Highland looks at Rust and says — “OK, we can finance and distribute.” Sometimes a company like Highland will only want to produce the film and then take it to someone else to distribute — sometimes they’ll do both if it makes sense. For Rust, it made sense for them. \n\nBut Rust is a decently expensive indie. I don’t know what the exact budget is — but period Western with that kind of cast — you’re looking at the 3-5 million on the low end. Highland doesn’t want to take on all that risk either. So they do just like you do with your stock portfolio — they diversify. \n\nNow, Highland goes to these other “production” companies and says — “you wanna piece of the action?”\n\nThis is how you get 8 companies involved in making one low budget film. And each company either brings value through financing the film or production benefits. And you guessed it: each company that gets involved brings a new “producer” to the film. Now, instead of Nigam, Baldwin and DelPiano, you’ve got Allen Cheney, Tyler Gould, Matt Helderman, Nathan Kingher, Emily Salveson, Ryan-Donnell Smith, Luke Taylor and Ryan Winterstern as producers.\n\nHere on out, Nigam, Baldwin and Souza, who were the originators of the film, maintain some creative control, but Highland now controls the budget and by proxy — all choices on production. Because they are trying to make their numbers work so they can maximize their return on investment. \n\nIt isn’t Nigam, Baldwin or DelPiano’s call to hire the non-union crew who screwed this up. In fact, there seems to be accounts that Baldwin and Souza protested this choice. But ultimately — they didn’t bring the money to finance this film. Highland did and they make the call. \n\nIs it possible that Highland is giving Baldwin some clout because of his name and letting him chime in on decisions? Absolutely. That happens. Especially with the hiring of key creative positions like the DP or the Production Designer. But it’s very, very, very unlikely that Baldwin was involved in any way on who the armorer on set is.\n\nThat decision was likely made by a proxy-producer that Highland brought on to oversee production.\n\nAnd what happens is — Highland applies pressure to these producers to come in on budget (preferably under). And that pressure forces the proxy-producer to cut corners in hopes of pleasing his/her real boss -- Highland Film Group. And this is how messes like this happen. Pressure. Money. Fear of someone taking your job.\n\nLong story short — Baldwin is simply using the clout of his name to get a movie made. And he plays a part in the mechanism of getting the film financed. But he is not “the producer” and his company isn’t “the production company”. He is what we call a producer in “name only”. He gets the credit and his company gets the credit — so that the film can get made by other people.\n\nThis is a textbook development strategy that all indie films employ. \n\nTL;DR: Alec Baldwin is not the producer of this film and his company is not the production company of this film. It's more complicated than that. \n\nEDIT; Apologies for typos. Too long a post to edit thoroughly. Lol.", "Your talking about a niche market and it would make most existing props obsolete. Considering only 2 people have died to bullets on set in 30 years i can see most productions not wanting to spend the money on special equipment.", "Hah my gun doesn't have a safety well it's got a trigger safety but yeah thats not really safety. Always check the chamber visually and with your finger.", "The person they got in charge of guns was a 24 year old nepotism hire and there were two prior accidently shooting's. people were literally walking off set due to all the gross negligence.", "You know that a gun is 150 years old, is poorly maintained, or just plain doesn’t function correctly, before you load it, or you are negligent. \n\nIf you happen upon a firearm that you do not know if it is loaded, you should treat it like it is a malfunctioning firearm until you are sure it is unloaded. Otherwise, you are negligent.\n\nThere is no situation where a “malfunctioning firearm” actually injuring someone isn’t negligence.", "From [this article:](https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-halyna-hutchins-death-alec-baldwin-production-1235096161/)\n\n>“Rust” had seven production entities listed as backing the film: Alec Baldwin’s El Dorado Pictures, Thomasville Pictures, Cavalry Media, Brittany House Pictures, Short Porch Pictures and financiers Bondit Media Capital and Streamline Global.", "> In the U.S. Air Force basic training\n\nThat makes sense.", "Wonder how they feel about Penis Cheney", "But he does though and the video has multiple cuts anyway.", "These already exist. There are guns out there that only shoot specific blanks cartridges and they usually have either blank muzzle devices or some kind of chamber/barrel plug that wouldn’t allow the use of real cartridges.\n\nBut it can be hard to have the specific weapons you need in blanks only, even more so if they want a specific cosmetic appearance. Its often much more practical, less expensive and better visually to get real weapons. \n\nThat’s never a security issue as long you follow proper protocol and have the proper people for it, which didn’t happened on the set of RUST. Just gross, criminal negligence", "8mm is a common \"blanks only\" chamber for pistols. There's an old Mauser rifle chambered for live 8mm bullets, but other than that, it's pretty standard for non-projectile purposes. Problem is that films have a lot of different requirements and blank-specific firearms don't always fit the part. They usually have a barrel that is deliberately obstructed with a welded-in ball bearing painted bright red to indicate the weapon is not capable of firing projectiles, so unless all of your shots are from behind the gun, you might need something else. \n\nAnd in the end, it comes down to what's really available. 8mm blanks are usually going to have to be ordered. Same thing with the firearm. Meanwhile, a prop department has 140 pistols on hand with easily acquired ammo.", "I can think of one, someone on set decides to test/have fun with one of the prop's and leave's a live round chambered before returning it to the set. not to far fetched considering all the other blatant safety violation's.", "Facts are facts but turning to personal attacks when you have nothing else to say is hilarious. \n\nAnd I’m actually left and don’t disagree with his politics but nice try. I created this burner Reddit account to participate in the discourse after their Spanish grift impersonating a Latina for profit was exposed. Hope you educate yourself of proper set gun safety.", "I bought an old folding .410 shotgun which sometimes discharged when you closed it. Didn't know that when I bought it. Proper firearms handling meant that I was never in danger.", "Someone maybe did it on purpose? Who knows.", "I keep seeing people, who have no idea how a film set operates, put the blame on Alec here and it’s driving me absolutely mad. It was absolutely not Alec’s job to check that the gun was cold. There are whole departments for this for a reason. Blame is 100% on the Production Manager and production company.", "Nothing to do with scabs. The AD is in charge. He is the one who bypassed protocol. The producers pick the AD they trust to get results vs liability. \n\nDoesn't matter if they have an armorer or not if the AD chooses to save time and money by taking matters into his own hands.", "You know what might help with your obvious, pathetic confusion? \n\nActually watching the posted video.", "But I bet she was energetic and a team player and all the other ageism excuses that every business in the world uses to not hire older experienced people that cost more but know what the fuck they are doing.", "If he was handed a gun he was told was safe and it wasn't then how is that Alec s fault", "The fuck does Baldwin have to do with any of this?", "Hey idiot - \"live\" ammunition in the context of movie sets includes blanks. \n\nOr just keep whining about how all these \"liberal\" facts are biased or whatever, that's pretty funny too.", "What about a NOT old/malfunctioning firearm?\n\nJust one small example would be: a Youtuber called Kentucky Ballistics had a .50 Rifle blow up literally in his face. Proper care and handling measures were taken in every sense. Go look for yourself.", "Because guns are simple tools. They are simply a barrel that triggers a firing pin on the live round. What is a fake gun? A gun with a compromised barrel so it won't fire the projectile forward and instead explode?\n\nThis is why I usually recommend people actually learn to handle guns and shoot them first. Guns require a great deal of respect and all of them are deadly.", "I mean tmz is fucking scummy but they're usually right. I'm not taking this for fact, I'm waiting for more sources confirming, but it's not like this is the national inquirer", "Lol you’ve never accidentally dropped something?", "Well modern hadguns are drop safe because sometimes shit happens. The Sigs were famously defective on that front and were recalled.", "As just a regular dude I can also tell you what went wrong on the set... The bullets were real.", "Oh, I didn't realize you were a gun safety expert.\n\nHard for me to take you seriously as literally every actual gun wrangler and prop manager says it's anybody but his fault. Then again I don't have a reddit account created exclusively to shit on the Baldwins like a fucking weirdo.", "From what I read, there was a sentence clarifying that the term \"live round\" includes blanks, but they were not saying one way or the other that it was a blank. And it's hard to imagine to that a blank went through one person, killing her, and into a second.", "Guess they just can't have guns in movies anymore then", "Hopefully you can shed some light on this, but if I'm not mistaken even blanks can be deadly from a short distance? As we seem in the deaths of Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum when shrapnel from blanks fatally injured them.", "An NRA consultant would tell them not to point a real gun at anyone.", "They had “misfires” a few days earlier on set. This wasn’t the first incident on set, so it’s a case of gross negligence.\n\nWhat I’m wondering is if it was a case of mechanical malfunction or not. Alec Baldwin cocks the hammer- piece of junk gun sends the hammer down.\n\nOR- Alec Baldwin is supposed to shoot in that scene. Pulls the trigger when it should have been a dummy round and instead shoots a live round.\n\nI think the first one is even worse because that means the armorer knowingly kept a malfunctioning weapon on set for days. Coupled with the added incompetence of bringing live munition on set.", "Yeah that’s a def a more logical solution than just never pointing a gun directly at someone", "I mean, in that example the gun has to be dropped to go off, which is itself negligent.\n\nIn other examples, if the gun isn't pointed at anyone it shouldn't be, no one will get shot. As a truism, it's pretty damn true.", "Lol movie sets are real life and this is a prime example of why gun safety should be followed at ALL TIMES, including movie sets. Alec doesn't get special gun rules just because he's a Hollywood elite.", "I think there needs to be a complete overhaul on how guns are used on sets. \n\n1. There is almost no reason why it should be a real gun or real bullets ever. We are smart enough to make guns look real but make them completely safe. Hell I am an engineer, I could spend a month and I bet I would have an acceptable solution to this. \n\n2. There is no reason to ever point a gun at someone, prop or not. This means if you need to aim one at the camera, you need to make sure no one is behind that camera. We know blanks can kill someone at point blank range, no reason to ever point a gun at anyone period. For gun scenes that require guns to be pointed at actors there needs to be measures taken to make sure the guns are completely safe, see point #1.", "Probably 'cause the \"expert\" is a blog post on a website that also has a merch store, and is in disagreement with practically every other person who has expertise on the subject. \n\nYou know what they call someone who gets all Ds in med school?", "He's an actor, his job is to wear other people's clothes, say other people's words and pretend to be other people, it's not his job to have any knowledge of firearms, that's what the armourer or prop master's job is. If he is handed a gun and told \"this will not kill people\" he has to believe it because he doesn't know any better.", "Hours worked use to be a requirement even if you knew someone, not any longer?\n\nI mean I knew well connected people who had to grind a bit for their hours, oh well, guess shits different or maybe different union.", "That’s….now how movies/theater work when using blanks. What exactly are you trying to imply here?", "Dropping a loaded firearm is negligent. Weapon retention is part of responsible gun handling.", "I don't know how Hollywood does things, but anyone outside of that bubble knows better than to trust anyone else but yourself. It doesn't matter how much you actually trust that person. The gun and everything you point it at is your responsibility, your lawsuit, your funeral to attend. \n\nIt goes back to the original comment I was referring to, there's no accidents, only negligence.", "I though Brandon Lee was killed by shrapnel in the barrel that wasn’t properly cleaned before firing blanks?", "Negligent discharge", "He blinks 3 seconds in.... lol", "Do we even know if it was a live round? Could it have been a blank that had bbs in it?", "I’m still unclear. All I hear is that actual bullets, live rounds, aren’t allowed on a set. He said “that obviously wasn’t the case here” or something to that effect.\nThat’s still not crystal to me. \n\nWas an _actual bullet_ in the gun that discharged or no? I’m not looking for an explanation of the difference between a dummy round or a blank, etc.\n\nTalk to a layperson. Was a bullet in the gun? One that I’d fire at a shooting range?", "Wouldn’t that mean they take the guns too? Or at least store them away and not just leave them sitting out on a cart", "You're missing a big piece of how movie sets function. The AD should NEVER have been the one to deliver the gun to Baldwin, let alone vouch for it being cold when it clearly wasn't.\n\nThere's a very strict compartmentalization of duties on movie sets for this exact purpose. Everything has a chain of custody. You'll get the riot act for moving an extension cord two feet of you aren't part of the electrical crew for that film. The AD was incredibly negligent of this.", "I agree with the major failure in gun safety protocols on multiple levels here, I grew up in a “gun” family and this incident should have never happened, but I have no idea what you’re talking about with sushi. I watched a YouTube video, went to a Mitsuwa nearby for sushi grade fish, and then made sushi and have been doing it since for about 8 years. Not sure where you heard that.", "He was negligent by not inspecting the gun for invisible damage after every shot. \n\nStill surprised that guy is alive.", "Excuse me? This is reddit, we dont use sources anymore like we did in 2018", "It's not totally wild, especially when you've had multiple problems with that one coworker's bullshit and it finally comes to a head and royally fucks everything up.", "lol you have no idea how movies are made, huh?", "Well you've been corrected but haven't corrected your own misinformation in your post", "Yup, first thing I thought was either the armorer fucked up or let someone else fuck with protocols.\n\nArmorers need to be stubborn and by the book for a reason. \"I don't give a fuck if you are Steven Spielberg, my guns my rules.\"", "He also owns the production company and that company never did anything about the 2 complaints about Saturdays issues. In my mind if that's true he should at the very least be charged with involuntary manslaughter", "Absolutely true, they fired a dummy round that still had a live primer, so the bullet only travelled far enough forward to get lodged in the barrel. When they put a blank behind it later, it launched said bullet out of the muzzle with nearly the force of a normal round. \n\nA simple rod down the barrel to check would have prevented it.", "Apparently \"Live\" doesn't mean \"Real\", it means it goes \"Bang\" regardless of its lethality. Dummy or Dud rounds are not Live because they have no functionality aside from resembling a bullet", "Amen!", "So not directly the blame of the “inexperienced” gun prop guy although he,or she,has questions to answer.The second director made a giant error.", "He owns one of 7 production companies that worked on the set.\n\nBeing a producer (and even owning a production company that works on the set) does not mean you have full control over what happens on set", "I think when it comes to firearms the connotation is you should be paying even more attention than when you were chopping vegetables. It’s completely your fault if you cut yourself with a knife and you can pretty much only hurt yourself.\n\nAny time you handle a firearm you can easily kill other people so there is an added responsibility you need to keep in mind. Saying it was an “accident” is not good enough. You need to be responsible and the opposite of responsibility is negligence.", "I’m no James Cameron but I’ve gotta think it’s very possible to film things at angles where it appears a gun is pointing at someone but actually isn’t", "It's amazing people are actually trying to split hairs and debate your point.", "The title should state, “some douche tries to cash in on tragedy by trying to trend”", "He’s a producer, not the producer.\n\nImportant distinction", "What crime do you think occurred, exactly?", "All I can find online is 2 people that have died from blanks, and both times he gun was pressed directly to their temples. I don’t count Brandon Lee as death by blank because there was an actual projectile fired in that case which is what killed him.", "Question, I saw someone say that the actor should also clear any gun they are given, on top of the other checks. Do you agree with that? Or would actors just ignore that", "What?!", "I figured it was something like this, based on who was injured.", "If there is an accident beyond your control (tripping, something scaring you like a snake, a seizure, etc) that makes you drop your gun resulting in a discharge is that negligent?", "How close do you have to be to a blank to get seriously injured from it?", "I'm not implying anything. I'm directly saying that you never point a real gun at people. You always assume the gun is loaded. This case is direct evidence of why you always follow those rules.", "I don’t see how the union or non union camera workers have any bearing on this accident.", "My comment was clearly sarcastic...", "The one thing that makes me think it might have been a real bullet is that it went through the one woman, and into someone else. That’s a lot of power and sounds like a legitimate bullet.", "Except in this case it’s the armorer who is responsible not the one that was holding the gun.", "I think you misunderstood my entire point I'm sorry.\nI only prefaced my ownership of guns as a point that I know a fair bit about firearms and firearm safety. I don't really care about firearm ownership that most people do like the right to have AR-15s or not. \n\nThe second part is I've been around people who use weird terminology like guns don't kill people, people kill people. Which isn't true. People kill people using guns.\nAnd I've been around a fair share of accidents involving guns, it isn't always negligence. It feels like people come up with these slogans to protect their rights to own firearms.\n\nAlso let's not compare firearm ownership to LGBTQ/POC rights. The right to own a deadly weapon is so far removed on importance compared to the people to live their natural Life style.", "And the hundreds or thousands of movies made that ignore that rule and haven't ended in people being shot?", "Like a highschool news letter.", "It does not. It specifically says that real rounds were loaded into the gun, which is not anything that other outlets are reporting.\n\nIf it weren’t an FMJ, I find it unlikely the round would have passed through the DP and into another person", "That's only because they're still really butthurt over his Trump impression on SNL.", "...can you dumb this down more for me? \"Live round\" sounds like live bullet. What is a \"blank\" ? Is a blank just an empty gun?", "TONS of articles has said they used live rounds.. what are you talking about? Lol that’s literally what everyone keeps arguing about because no one seems to know what they’re saying. A lot of places are using the term “live round” as a live blank. \n \nYou provided zero new information to the table. Not to mention TMZ doesn’t show any sources. Just “we know a guy. “", "It is incredibly difficult to emulate real recoil and accurate muzzle flash in some environments. Having a gun that actually shoots is the only reliable way to get these things to look right", "I think there was a weird translation mishap because it refers to her as an \"armor maker\" instead of an armorer", "I read that the union stage crew walked off the set because of safety issues.", "That was my thought as well. I don't give a damn if everyone says that the gun is safe, I'm not looking into the camera's viewfinder with a real gun pointed to it. Ever. Even if it was supposed to shoot a fake bullet.", "This guy is actually incredibly knowledgeable on the subject. Encourage you to watch his other videos.", "Hahaha ok sport", "It doesn't matter. You never point real gun at someone. Always assume the gun is loaded. If millions of law abiding gun owners can follows these rules, then hollywood actors can too.", "sure, but nepotism is kind of a step above plain old friend-level networking. Maybe just because nepotism is so blatant - its basically admitting that you don't even care to hide the fact that you're being immoral.", "That’s not true, at all.\n\nThe AD is responsible for safety on the set.\n\nFurthermore, all producers are not equal. Most producers have very little say over what actually happens on set", "Hahaha, wtf, that’s so weird", "I feel like you can’t be over 13 years old and I don’t mean that as a random internet insult. I grew up around guns and lived in the sticks and learned all the rules early. I live by those rules when around firearms as should everyone else. \n\nWe are talking about movie sets. The rules are different. There are protocols in place to make sure you can safely point a gun at someone for the sake of entertainment and make believe. \n\nI feel like I’m explaining this to an alien.", "Why the hell would they point a gun down a camera with someone on the other end instead of using an angle mirror?", "But they hire specific people on set to do this.\n \nThe actors trust the person responsible implicitly to ensure its safe. \n \nAn actor needs to get in character and ready for the shot. As an example say an emotional scene is going to be filmed, an actor will typically get them selves in the right state. To break that and clear a gun would be difficult on actors. And potentially delay filming if the actor has to clear each gun.\n \nAnother example is an complex shoot out using semi automatic weapons.\n \nIs the actor going to empty each clip manually to make sure each bullet is fake? That's what the armorer is for.", "You don’t think anyone faults Baldwin for this? Read the comments a little more closely.\n\nMany are saying he holds the majority of the responsibility", "Yes but no one drops their firearm casually. Weapon manufacturers wouldn't care about making accidental discharge corrections if the responsibility of the firearm going off is 100% due to owner negligence.\n\nI've known some very safe strict people have accident. I don't yell at them for being negligent. Accidents happen.", "Blame the production company for not replacing her after THREE negligent discharges. They allowed a fourth to happen, and it killed someone.", "Clearly you have no idea how any of this works. Balwdin personally clearing would do nothing. The gun didn't have to be \"cleared\". In fact, when they are filming a close up of the gun, there should be blanks or non-firing bullets in the gun /chamber otherwise you would see that the revolver was empty or that there was no kickback when firing the weapon.\n\nBaldwin is not the gun expert, so to him blanks and non-firing rounds could look indistinguishable. To help him with that, they hired an armorer or gun expert who's job was supposed to be making sure the correct rounds were loaded for the correct purpose. That dude clearly fucked up his job and someone died.", "Fastest blinks in the west", "Might be different unions, but I would certainly suspect that if one of the unions on a set walks off due to some problem they have, then perhaps that's indicative of the whole set not being run well.", "Not to mention CGI is much more expensive", "He made fun of their god emperor so therefore he must be blamed", "They were not rolling at the time. Sounds like they were setting up the shot", "Even the majors set up LLCs for each project.", "Would that be possible on a non-gas operated firearm like a revolver though? The gas would still need to be vented somewhere.", "He literally killed someone and injured another because he was irresponsible with a firearm. \n\nYou do not point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them. It's the biggest rule of owning or handling one.", "How would you suggest getting gunshots that look real with a fake gun?", "Dropping the gun is negligent", "Ok, for all Europeans, Canadians and Australians, what kind of prop guns do they use in movies outside of the US? I just CANNOT understand the need to use a REAL gun???!!!", "Like anything else in life, that depends on the circumstances. Would you say every time you've ever accidentally dropped something in your life was due to negligence? Or does stuff just happen sometimes?", "Nobody knows yet, the information simply hasn’t been released.\n\nAs someone familiar with guns, I’d be shocked if the situation as described wasnt a real bullet.\n\nA blank can definitely injure or kill a person, but I don’t think there’s any way a blank kills a person, and then injures a second person behind the first.\n\nI really do suspect that there was a real round in the gun", "\"Shootin round the world!\"", "If you understand what it means to “clear” a gun, it simply doesn’t make sense, the actor simply can’t. He would have to unchamber every round, have a tool to clear the barrel, inspect each individual round AND understand, at a professional, life-safety-critical level, what it means for a round / gun to be safe for prop use. I would never want to trust an actor to do this, which is why a professional must do the job even ignoring the very real practical issues.", "Tell me more about your perfect life of never accidentally dropping anything and I assume no mistakes whatsoever", "Even though it’s blank, it’s still considered a live round because of the gunpowder. Yeah it may not have a billet but if it’s in the gun it’s still live snd everyone has to be aware of it.", "I see you both have 0 experience in movie production and also didn't actually watch the post lol", "That's what I'm thinking, based on what I've heard. It was a close up shot where the bullets show and the AD saw a gun with bullets showing and grabbed it.", "There’s a clear misunderstanding here of what “producer” means\n\nThere were 7 production companies working the set. Probably dozens of producers.\n\nA “producer” means a million different things, and being a producer does not inherently mean you have any real say over what happens on set.\n\nIf you think every producer had a hand in hiring every person on set, you’re very mistaken", "Yes, alot of these people in this thread obviously are more interested in spouting out cliches in an attempt to look knowledgeable than actually being logical. Leave the gun talk to those of us that actually own guns.", "So has anyone figured out who's actually responsible for this or are we all collectively okay with blaming \"Rust Movie Productions, LLC\" as if that means anything?", "Can you not be a whingey twatwaffle? Circumventing paywalls is Reddit 101, FFS. (and easily done on mobile)", "There are minimum set distances for each weapon, and you should absolutely respect them.\n\nThat being said normally being shot point blank with a normal blank won't result in anything. \n\nThere are exceptions, like 12 guage shotgun blanks. The more normal issue is if the blank is poorly made it may have some scrap copper in it (for example) which would be projected out similar to a bullet - or if there's something else stuck in the barrel. Anything stuck in the barrel will get fired out by the blank - this is what killed Bruce Lee's son during a movie filming.", "Real question: Did you ever work with a film production company that was established specifically for that one movie and nothing else? Because that appears to be the case here..", "it can totally be both. The armorer didn't prepare the prop properly and the actor was negligent in aiming a gun that can actually shoot live ammo at someone. Baldwin is also quite up there in the decision making of the company behind Rust so he may be culpable for hiring a crew of unexperienced people due to the union workers walking out.", "Not as good as you think.\n\nThere were many production companies and probably dozens of producers working on this film.\n\nNot every producer has a say in what happens on set, or hiring choices, etc.", "A therapeutic brick, more like.", "Neck beard.", "Yeah he probably told the armorer to have the gun ready for when they started working on the tight shot and just grabbed what he thought had been prepped for the shot. Total conjecture but I work in film and that seems like a totally plausible scenario to me.", "Same with vehicles. Oh your tire popped and you ran into another person as a result? Clearly you didn't maintain your vehicle well enough. Oh you had a sudden stroke and it caused you to hit a pedestrian? You should have taken better care of your health you negligent POS.\n\nI wonder how long we're going to pretend like people are perfectly programmable robots and the only flaw is the programming.", "Ya but I get downvoted because what do i know. Only shot guns my entire life.", "1st AD is all but definitely gonna go down hard for this but from all the reporting it sounds like they were just following the top brass' example. Production of this sunds shameful and dangerous from the top down.", "it's actually the right frame of mind when handeling a gun; If something happens while i am handeling it, it's my fault. So let me be the 200% sure nothing happens.", "Do you know how many producers work on a movie like this?", "They’re talking about firing the gun as target practice previously. Which was by the union workers…before they walked off.", "Ok I guess people never accidentally drop things. They negligently drop things", "A really good argument for yearly inspections. No idea why several US states don't do that. Also no idea how other countries handle such things.", "The only accidental discharge is when there is no shooter involvement, e.g.; weapons or ammo malfunction.\n\nThis is a negligent discharge. It might not be Alex Baldwin's fault directly, but it is someone's, or even a lot of people's faults. Now whether it is acual malicious intent or just all around inexperience is still a question. \n\nIf you ask me, which you're not, the final responsibility lies with the holder of the firearm. Before rolling or even during the loading of the gun by someone else, it is your responsibility to co-witness and inspect what kind of ammo if any is being put in to that weapon. No one else holds the gun and pulls the trigger but you and you don't want to kill someone so check the guns action, chamber, mag, cylinder or what ever when it is handed to you, movie or not.\n\nYou have a gun in film you should go through at least a half day of training on that specific gun. It is that important to be competent with it.", "...and now I have to go watch the prestige again", "Yup. A set is not a range and the safety procedures are different.", "Two people have died as a result of gun accidents on set in 30 years.\n\nIt’s really quite safe, but there are obviously dangers", "i think it's important semantics though. You need to drill it in people's heads that guns are not toys. Even accidents are your fault. Make sure there is no accident possible.", "Maybe not all skills or abilities, but IATSE membership does indicate that a person has completed several mandatory training courses, including safety courses, that cannot be reasonably expected of a non-union scab brought in from the local music video scene.", "No clue what happened. I dont about other peoples jobs", "Like all you have to do for it to look very real is pull the projectile out and dump the power and now all you have is a primer. It still goes bang but projectile no go fly", "It’s called a squib round and that’s actually what killed Brandon Lee", "The armorer was allowing cast to use the props to target practice during off times. She had also once given a loaded gun to an 11year old on set and the AD and other cast members insisted the gun be checked first, saving a tragic mishap.", "Because a blank has the power to kill/maim depending on range.", "I mean, regardless of your position on safety and who bears blame, nobody was murdered here.", "On the Brandon Lee set they were making their own blanks and dummy (realistic looking) ammunition by emptying real bullets. Perhaps they were doing the same here, and somehow a real bullet got mixed in with the dummies.", "Not enough people are talking about her. Those pop-ups in the video \"AGAIN where was the armorer / prop master\" refer to her. You can be young, you can be inexperienced. But at some point, you have to say, \"Okay, I'm in charge of making sure these guns that will be fired don't kill someone. I should really be on top of that.\" The shot was Baldwin firing directly at the camera. I mean, come on. Any time they're aiming toward anyone... that's why these extensive protocols exist.", "It blows my mind that it's apparently standard procedure on a movie set that the actor using the firearm isn't expected to confirm what, if anything, it's loaded with. I don't care who you are, if you hand me a firearm and tell me it's unloaded, I'm not taking your word for it.", "Which still makes no sense. Can we just cast an entire round out of metal so there's no chance of the projectile even becoming dislodged in the barrel a la Brandon Lee in The Crow?", "one could argue you either took risks or were not careful enough when you dropped something. It didn't \"just happened\", somehting could have been done to prevent it. Now it doesn't really matter if you drop a plate on the ground but it frikkin matters when a bullet comes out the barrel of a gun.", "Just because someone else is supposed to handle the guns doesn't give you the go ahead to not care about basic gun safety", "Never a gun", "Not in all cases.\n\nThere’s simply no way to get accurate gunplay in film without breaking the standard firearm rules here and there.", "Happens all the time. \n\nThat's one reason why film credits are so important in the business, and why broadcasters are contract-bound to roll them instead of cutting to commercial, even years later. When the production office typically closes down a couple of months after shooting is completed, and there's literally nobody to confirm a job reference, the proof of an applicant's participation in the project claimed is on the credit roll.", "It was baldwins fault. No matter what happened before, he was the one handling the gun. He didn't treat it as if it was loaded, he is the one that pointed it at another person and he is the one that pulled the trigger. He broke every rule of firearm safety ther is.", "how often do you drop things that can kill? if you work in a lab and handle deadly deseases, you DO NOT DROP ANYTHING. You also never \"just drop a gun\". \n\n\nyou sound like the kind of negligent person that would get someone killed if in charge of a firearm.", "He wasn’t “the producer.”\n\nHe’s one of many. Producer roles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, with many having no say at all about what happens on set", "Probably a lot more than 7", "Based on your comment of only loading a gun when you intend to fire it I doubt you’ve ever held a gun period.", "Because being told the gun is safe doesn't actually mean the gun is safe. It's not safe until you check yourself", "A real gun used as a prop is still referred to as a “prop gun”", "The shot in question required that the gun be loaded with dummy round that’s appeared to be real.\n\nThis wasn’t simply a matter of clearing the gun", "No he's not he killed a person because he didn't follow firearm safety.", "People are trying to argue with you, but Sig Sauer recently had a huge scandal where a brand new line of handguns wasn't entirely drop safe. People discovered that if you dropped the gun a certain way it would discharge on impact every time.\n\nThere's also the notorious case of the (correct me if I'm wrong here) Brazilian police's service gun. It was an incredibly awful gun that would fire if shaken too much. I'm sure a lot of officers had little to no choice about whether to use those.\n\nPeople are on their high horses here, but you are right. That said, it is extremely rare that this is a problem and the manufacturer's fault. So in essentially every case, I would say that the phrase \"There are no accidental discharges, only negligent discharges.\" Is accurate. Definitely so in this case.", "Oh my gosh dude you aren't getting it. Two people were just shot despite those safety rules being in place. That's why you ALWAYS follow gun safety rules.", "Yes, there are different orders of the rules.\n\nThat said, for the longest time, Rule 1 was \"always assume the gun is loaded\".\n\nAs with most rules, the \"title\" just sets the start. The intent is \"Check your damn weapon to see if it's loaded with live ammo\".\n\nThen continue with the rest of the rules.", "In the case of a revolver, with dummy rounds representing bullets in the cylinder holes, that's exactly what should be done: aim it safely then cycle through it a couple of times, in the presence of the director, the handling performer and anyone standing down-muzzle. Doing this clearly demonstrates that the apparently-loaded firearm is in fact completley inert, and presents no danger. That way, everybody knows that you are looking out for them, that they are safe in your care, and that they can focus on their individual duties without worry.", "In Brandon's case it blew the blockage out with enough force to kill him (very close range). Here he says they are supposed to run a rod through every barrel to prove it is clear so it shouldn't even happen.", "why would someone write this", "A partially occluded hole means the same amount of gas would have to escape faster and more highly pressurized making it more dangerous, not safer.", "Thanks for taking the time to lay things out like this.", "If the reportage is accurate, that would be a safe assumption. Terminology varies a little according to region and how one has been trained, but singing out \"Gun is hot!\" or \"Going hot!\" is pretty much universal. \n\nIn these parts, we usually indicate a firearm has been inspected and rendered inert by saying \"gun is clear and safe\" rather than simply calling it \"cold\". But as I said, the terminology varies a little.", "Doesn’t take an expert to figure this one out… but sure lol", "A better question would be, how did baldwin feel about Cheney? I believe he said he should have gone to prison for shooting his friend. I guess he probably feels the same for himself.", "The big, glaring difference is that the people in those classes intend to shoot with real weapons, not stage props.", "Another actor died by firing a blank against his temple while showing off. The blank had enough gas pressure to blow a fragment of his temple bone into his brain.", "The ordering is different depending on how old the source is or how long the source has been providing the order.\n\nEven following what you state, one doesn't pick a single rule and ignore the rest.\n\nSo lets say the rule I mentioned is #2 (as sometimes it is from newer sources). He STILL failed to follow that rule before moving on to the rest.", "You don't need to be an expert to understand the 3 rules of firearm safety.", "So, this is a weird circumstance, where to make a film you need a very diverse set of highly skilled people. It is absolutely impossible for everyone to be an expert at everyone else’s jobs. You instead must trust that everyone else is doing theirs, or you’d never get a major film done.\n\nIn this case, Baldwin is there because he is an expert at acting. Not directing, lighting, camera operation, rigging, writing, or firearms. An actor must be able to trust that when someone says, “it’s safe to do X,” that they have done their jobs and make sure that’s the case.\n\nAs a producer, he might be culpable, but as an actor, others failed him.", "There's a gap between the cylinder and the barrel. Also if you're only partially occluding the barrel then the gas can just escape more slowly.", "Some things have worse consequences when dropped, and thus require more care to prevent dropping than others. Loaded guns are definitely one of those things. I can't believe I have to explain this.", "I see you haven't read the police report.", "LOL that you think the rules should only apply when hunting.\n\nOr that a full grown adult who has been around firearms much of his life through his profession, shouldn't have to follow them.\n\nAlso, don't ignore the fact he's anti-firearm and doesn't think regular people should have access to them.", "Alec fucked up and killed someone because he didnt give a shit about safety either. If he checked if the gun was loaded then he wouldnt have killed someone.", "To my knowledge, there have been three on-set deaths due to unsafe firearm practises since I began in the business in 1977: Jon Hexum in 1984, Brandon Lee in 1993, and this one, two days ago.\n\nHowever, firearm-related deaths are the least of our industry's safety problems. According to Associated Press, between 1990 and 2016, at least 43 people have died in production mishaps, in the US - and more than three times that number have suffered what it termed \"life-altering injuries\"\n\nDuring my 36 years here in Vancouver, we've experienced the deaths of three colleagues: a stunt driver who lost control of their motorcycle and struck a pane of plate glass; a crew driver who was crushed by a rolling vehicle after someone neglected to set the parking brake; and a PA who was struck in the head by debris from a SPFX explosion - despite standing behind a tree, and at a supposedly safe distance.", "Blowing my mind... I wonder how long before literally everything is like this.\n\nNew iPhone? No it's not made by Apple, it's made by \"iPhone 15, LLC\"", "Why was he pointing the guy at her? Why did he pull the trigger?", "I agree that Baldwin is likely culpable in his capacity as the producer of the film, but I seriously doubt he's culpable for being the one who pulled the trigger.", "You go girl boss!", "You proved my point.\n\nIt didnt discharge on its own... it discharged when you performed an action (closing it).", "Well, Cheney knew his gun was real and loaded. He was also probably drunk.", "Also check out PropsToHistory. He also had some excellent insight into what could have happened.", "You literally don’t understand absolutely anything about the usage of guns in movie sets and the viability of an actor checking whether a gun is safe to use as a prop, or not. Extremely uneducated and yet weighing in on the topic.", "Funny. But it's standard to have a police officer (or several) on set any time local traffic needs to be temporarily locked up while we're actually rolling. Without them there and visible, people will frequently simply drive around crew flagpersons.", "Then what's the difference beetween \"live ammunition\", and just \"ammunition\"????\n\nThis is a serious thread, about a serious subject; semantic games are unappreciated.", "Brilliant insight. Thanks for taking the time to research and write your post.", "This is exactly how Bruce lee's son died.", "all the explanations here about blanks live rounds etc etc does not explain why baldwin broke the number one cardinal rule of gun safety “ dont point the fukin gun at something you dont want to kill”…..why was baldwin pointing a pistol at two human beings….forget all the technical jargon number 1 and two rules….a gun is always loaded even when its not and never point at something or someone you dont intend to kill period….just seems they are spinnjng this to absolve their favorite fair haired boy of any culpability", "Bro what are you smoking. If you want to see if a gun isnt loaded you check the chamber and the magazine. 5 seconds max and even a 8 year old can do it.", "Actual prop guns are made of hard rubber. Baldwin knew he was holding a real gun.\n\n>He was also probably drunk.\n\nYou have no proof to back this up, so why say it? I could say the same about baldwin.", "This is correct. There are no confirmations that this \"live round\" was a real functioning bullet. \"Live round\", when used by IASTE (the crew union), encompasses blanks and real bullets. Confusing to say the least, but I think this is done here because both forms can harm and kill so, on set, they are treated with the same respect. \n\nI work as a first AD and with many armorers and stunt folk. What happened here is beyond infuriating. Words cannot express the anger I have towards the 1st and the Armorer. They utterly failed at their jobs to keep their set and crew safe, their chief priority. This was negligence and both deserve jail time and to never work in the industry again, IMO.", "The professional lighting solution is multiple lights at different angles. Those angles depend on what space you're recording in. They're also an order of magnitude more expensive than a simple ring light.", "In this case the firearms were used for extracurricular target shooting by members of the crew during off hours and weren’t properly inspected before being brought back to set. Completely unprofessional behavior that got someone killed.", "You have to be an extra kind of special to mix up a live round with a blank", "Because he was pointing at the camera because the shot required it and the two people were behind the camera. In filming it is common to have guns pointed at people or even people pointing guns at themselves, that's why there are the extensive safety protocols in place.", "and why was baldwin pointing the pistol at two non actors that are not even in the shot", "From what I read in another thread, the safety people were off set because they were on strike at the time. They wanted better treatment and more safety regulations. They got non union employees to fill in because of the strike. Most non union employees have little to no say in what happens. I bet it was some decision to save money, it was quicker, or both. Then this happens. \n\nThen again, with all of the other horrible things that's happened, Hollywood doesn't give a shit, from people's faces melting off, getting decapitated by helicopters, parallelization, and lost body parts, because things aren't followed the way they should be.", "It was a real gun. According to props to history, the shot they were trying to get was a camera shot straight down the barrel. I want to know what really happened. Where did the real bullet come from? Why weren’t safety protocols followed?", "It amazes me these days, that we can have fully CGI people walking around on an alien planet, walking into a hovercraft and taking off, but heaven forbid we add a CGI gun", "The guy literally talks about this in the video.", "you do you if you want to. but me, if i'm ever in a similar situation i'm going to make damn sure i don't shoot someone. i'm going to visually inspect the dummy rounds to make sure they're inert. i'm going stick a dowel down the barrel to prevent a brandon lee maneuver. if it's me pulling the trigger, aiming towards the camera, the operators will stand clear before i fire. if they need to pull focus or pan during the action, they're going to have to figure out a way to operate it remotely, or i'm not doing the shot.\n\nyou want to prevent this sort of thing from happening. send the triggerman to prison for 5 years for manslaughter. that incentive will work. especially if the triggerman you make an example of isn't some struggling peon but Alec fucking Baldwin. you don't get to abdicate responsibility out of some sense of \"I thought it was unloaded. it's not my fault.\"", "Eh, if it's made public it's public. Nothing wrong with reposting. This will be interesting to see how it all plays out.", "I did.\n\nNow go watch the post if you intend to talk more. Otherwise I'll just write you off as another kid who can't focus on anything for more than 280 characters.", "Civilian firearm safety is not the same as on set safety, that's why they have an armorer, that's why they follow extensive safety protocols, that's why they are supposed to go through safety checks, because they often point guns at each other or at themselves.", "Military basic training is ≈10 weeks, so you want an actor to go through a similar training cycle to film a scene or two that requires several seconds of using a prop gun?", "there is a big difference between playing dress-up while reciting words from memory in front of a camera and handling a firearm.\n\nIn fact, he probably knows how to drive a car safely, but they usually dont have actors drive themselves and leave that to stunt doubles.", "As I indicated, much of the information coming out now is uncorroborated and even contrary, so I'll wait for the sheriff's office to make a formal announcement about what happened.", "Real ammunition would never be on a set with firearms present. That's part of the above point. The term \"live round\" in this case does not necessarily mean real bullet. A blank could still kill and harm another at this close range. \n\nThe only way I could imagine any real ammunition being on set at all is if the armorer was manufacturing dummy rounds on set (WHICH YOU WOULD NEVER FUCKING DO). \n\nTo be clear, as of now, it has not been released, to my knowledge, whether or not it was a real bullet or a blank that killed the director", "Yes, entirely digital.", "no you dont pull a single action pistol lock the hammer back point at two human beings and pull the trigger dropping the hammer directly aiming at two people..number one safety protocol is you dont point a weapon at someone cock it and press the trigger in their direction movie shoot or not…..something totally stinks here and you know alec baldwin is a psychopath", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADGyglYqeoM\n\nFinger not on the trigger. Equipment malfunction caused a shot to go off. The trigger wasn't pulled, but a round was fired. That's an accidental discharge. It was pointed downrange and safely. It was not a negligent discharge.", "I agree that Baldwin is responsible as a producer but not as an actor. They essentially told him this gun is harmless, may as well have been a Nerf gun. I also believe that they should train actors working with such guns on set to verify the safety for themselves but they should not be held responsible, otherwise those actors should also be armorers. You can hire 10 armorers. \n\nThe ultimate issue is cutting costs where life is at stake.", "We always use a bore light and/or rod (as demonstrated) to ensure the barrel remains clear and unblocked, before and after each take.\n\nHowever, some years ago, while I was target shooting at a friend's farm, and appropos of nothing, a single shot .22 rifle simply failed, with the front 5\" of the barrel ripping open like a seam - so mechanical failure of a firearm can happen, even without a blockage. Still, it's an extremely rare occurrence.", "The roumors I've heard on my sets are that the gun was used personally the day before while hunting (not sure why you would hunt with a revolver), and that this was also the third accidental discharge on the set.", "No. But it is likely (though not proven) that it was an accidentally fired primer from a dummy round that caused a bullet head to separate from its casing, become lodged in the barrel, and later kill Brandon Lee, in 1993.", "The idea that Baldwin intentionally shot someone is stupid.", "Either you or the firearm \"expert\" is supposed to know. Where do you think people get safe handling practices from. Either their expert was unqualified or they didn't bother hiring one. If they didn't hire one, it's on the production company. I heard they were having union worker problems, so it's possible the original firearm expert/propmaster wasn't even there.\n\n\nFor example, when you go to a gun range as a noob, you are depending on someone there to teach you basics of safety. It is ultimately the range safety officer's responsibility to maintain safety and the shooters to follow their direction. \nYou can't expect actors to be gun experts from the beginning, but you can expect experts to teach them proper safety procedure.", "for all the people saying \"he was told it was safe\"... would you take a firearm that someone handed you and claimed was \"safe\" and put it to your head and pull the trigger?", "Everyone that touched that gun is responsible for it. Firearm safety is critical and must be followed or tragedies like this happen. If a person didn't know how to treat a firearm properly, they shouldn't have touched the gun. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.", "People drop stuff in labs all the time. Every one I have ever worked in has an often-used glass disposal bin.", "Real guns are used all the time. https://www-cinemablend-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cinemablend.com/amp/news/2472161/why-lord-of-war-starring-nicolas-cage-bought-3000-real-guns-instead-of-props?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16350974126761&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemablend.com%2Fnews%2F2472161%2Fwhy-lord-of-war-starring-nicolas-cage-bought-3000-real-guns-instead-of-props", "IMDB lists him as a producer", "Again, you are beyond uneducated specifically on what it takes to check safety on a movie set prop gun. Take literally 2 mins to watch this video. They are shooting a shot looking down the barrel of a revolver. Gun must be fully loaded with dummies (not blanks) for the shot since you can visibly see if a revolver cylinder is loaded or not from that angle. This guy explains the process of vetting, and most importantly, who must do it. Hint: it’s not some random actor who knows jack shit about guns, it’s a firearms professional. You are deeply confused on movie set vs real life gun safety. It’s really not hard to grasp that rules HAVE to be different and absolutely different safety precautions must be taken on sets than real life. In real life, safety literally could not be more simple: assume your gun will fire at any moment and kill whoever is anywhere near its line of fire.", "The NRA is a scam organization that went bankrupt because they spent all their money lobbying congress. Get a real professional instead. And don’t blame an actor for someone else’s mistake.", ">because they often point guns at each other or at themselves.\n\nMore reason to ensure its not loaded and to keep your finger off the trigger.", "That's not how it is done in film at all through.", "Nepotism at its finest", "Great response. I love learning about the inner intricacies of films like this. It’s also a lot better than the blatant speculation going on in the rest of this thread.", "The gun should be loaded for the shooting of the scene.", "I love seeing all the gun nut lunatics trying to turn this into some political gotcha. like 'haha baldwin was against guns and he killed people' as if this event doesn't actually prove Baldwins point that guns are deadly and can murder people even by accident. \n\n\n\nactually you know what? that's what it is. they hate that a gun actually killed someone by accident and through no failure of the shooter, so they need to make up shit like 'well Baldwin should've checked the gun himself' like idiots, all so they can avoid the realization that the political rhetoric they've been regurgitating ('guns don't kill people, people kill people') is bullshit. in this situation, it wasn't the shooter who killed with the gun, it was the existence of a real gun which resulted in murder, as it statistically usually does", "1 shot two casualties….fukin wyatt earp wasnt that good…cmon man….and again you never point an unloaded firearm at people….and it happens everyday who all say the same fukin thing “i didnt know it was loaded”", "I shot you an upvote. Lol heh. \"Shot.\"", "Uh huh, and how should they get a shot of someone shooting a gun with their finger off the trigger? How do you shoot a suicide shot with someone without their finger on the trigger? How do you get a shot of a gun discharging without a blank in the chamber?", "I’m still mad at the bones. I hope they have a trial.", "Yes, that's what the person I was replying to suggested. The thing is, blanks are used for scenes at a distance while this was a close up shot.", "The union, IATSE has not gone on strike \n\nhttps://iatse.net/landmark-tentative-agreement-reached-for-iatse-west-coast-film-and-television-workers-before-strike-deadline/", "I always thought the shots of the shell casings bouncing off the ground as Neo run and guns through the lobby to be awesome shots. It really added realism to an otherwise totally unrealistic (but awesome) fight sequence.", "Or you could watch the video where it says he was pointing it into the camera for a shot with people behind the camera to get the shot. Or just go off without info. Either is cool.", "that armorer was non union", "Uh huh, and fill me on how they get film shots of people in a shoot out if no one points a gun at each other. How do you get a film shot of someone committing suicide if they don't point the gun at themselves.\n\nHave you ever seen a movie with guns in it?", ">Yeah firearm safety literally doesn't apply on a movie set while filming\n\nFirearm safety applies anytime a firearm is being handled. That's how you keep people from dieing.\n\n>you stupid fuck\n\nCan't even have a civil conversation. Your opinion means even less now.", "Yes, these dummies commenting literally have absolutely zero clue. “JUST UNLOAD THE GUN” uh, the shot is literally looking down the barrel of a loaded revolver so… yeah, can’t just unload it genius.", "Negligence is more common, but there are still both. Negligence is human error. Accidents are mechanical failure. At least that's how the military separates the two.", ">Uh huh, and how should they get a shot of someone shooting a gun with their finger off the trigger?\n\nAirsoft or rubber prop gun.\n\n>How do you get a shot of a gun discharging without a blank in the chamber?\n\nDo it in post.", "Guess Hollywood didn’t learn anything from Brandon Lee almost 30 fucking years ago. Keep playing with guns America. And keep making excuses as to why it wasn’t the guns fault.", "Thanks for this. I had no understanding of how production companies worked and was of the ‘But Baldwin was the producer!’ camp but I have completely changed my opinion.", "Airsoft...ffs.", "If you want to watch how professional entertainers properly handle firearms watch [Penn & Teller do their bullet catch routine](https://youtu.be/lW6c-xhzA98?t=190). The link opens the video at the point where the two take the pistols out of their respective holsters. Prior to handing their pistols to the audience members assisting for the trick you'll see both Penn and Teller inspect the cylinders to be sure their gun isn't loaded, then look down the barrel to be sure it isn't obstructed. After the audience members handle the guns Penn and Teller will go through the same inspection routine. That's the only way to properly handle a firearm that's capable of harming someone.\n\nIf you've never fired a pistol or rifle before and someone invites you to go with them to shoot theirs be cautious. Not everyone is as careful as they ought to be with their firearms, and you are literally trusting that person with your life.", "Which country do you live in that has more freedoms?", "I work in the industry dawg. You don't need to tell me what a producer is. Alec Baldwin is not the only one responsible, but he is one of the few people who could have stood up for the crew without damaging his career. They were hiring non-union. The armorer had never done that job before. The camera crew walked off the job that morning because they had gun safety concerns. \n\nBaldwin could have stopped this. He didn't. There are many others at fault, but he is not innocent here.", "I understand with you guns or friends guns, but situations are different on film sets. Maybe they will make changes now.", "Yeah, those guns are worth more like $5k", "Weird that there's not one mention here of hannah gutierrez-reed, the 24 yr old green haired tiktoker who was armorer in charge of guns on the set. She had little experience and a history of carelessness and allowing misfires on the set. This was a deadly accident waiting to happen.", "What's wrong with using airsoft? They look realistic.", "Kinda just sounds like your understanding of the situation is much more limited than mine. I work in the industry. I'm one degree of separation (many times over) from the deceased. \n\nAs I said in another comment: Alec Baldwin is not the only one responsible, but he is one of the few people who could have stood up for the crew without damaging his career. They were hiring non-union. The armorer had never done that job before. The camera crew walked off the job that morning because they had gun safety concerns. \n\nBaldwin could have stopped this. He didn't. There are many others at fault, but he is not innocent here.", "Wow. That’s an incredibly thorough post. Most thorough post I’ve read on movie-making in a while too. Huh. Thanks!", "Horseshit. Good safety protocols would include demonstrating, when handing it over to the actor, that the weapon was clear. If someone created a \"procedure\" with firearms on a film set that amounted to \"you've just gotta just my word - now start pointing this firearm at people while you pull the trigger\", that would be utterly incompetent.", "But if the AD just grabbed one of 3 guns on a table and claimed it was “cold” this could have had anything in it. We still don’t know all the facts, that’s for sure.", "as someone else said, he wasn’t the producer financing the movie, so he definitely didn’t have power over most hires", "It sounds like the DP was somewhere behind the camera and the gun went off when Baldwin's thumb slipped off of the hammer. So he wasn't intentionally pointing the gun at her, but somewhere in the motion of lifting and cocking the gun, it was some in her direction.\n\nStill seems crazy to me that you wouldn't frame the scene without a gun, then clear everyone out when filming with the gun.", "He's an actor. You think he'd even be able to distinguish between a blank and a live round if someone didn't show him the difference? It's not his responsibility. They pay people to know and do this shit and someone failed at the job.", "Aw, that's adorable! I know that took a lot of effort, coming up with that all by yourself. Keep at it, though. You'll be a real boy soon.", "If this shit is true, I really hope the AD face manslaughter charges and should be barred from getting involved in any film or television making especially safety protocols on set. People behind the scenes lost their lives because of incompetence from people like him.", "I wonder who is going to be ultimately responsible", "Blanks can kill people within a minimum distance. The gasses escape the muzzle so fast like a jet it can be fatal within a few meters.", "Blanks can do damage too.", "They’re mentioning it to support the claim that production overall was sloppy and not fulfilling promises, and therefore the environment and attitude lent itself to be prone to accidents in a negligent manner. I do agree that the article pushes that narrative more than actually finding fault with the individuals directly responsible for the gun being live.", "If she wasn't actually on set and was part of the walkoff can we cut this person a break? If they were the scab then that's different", "In the sets I’ve worked out the gun wrangler clears the gun in front of the actor to show them that it’s safe. Actors only handle the gun for acting, they don’t mess with it in any other way for safety", "2 is way to many. How many have been injured? In this case one dead and another injured.", "Someone has to go to jail", "u can point for a shoot without dead balls pointing at the camera people…..no fukin way i would do that….i understand about getting the shot of the rounds in the chamber as a plot device….way to do that without pointing at the throat of the camera people….baldwin will skate bcause of his rich privelege", "This guy Hollywoes", "The wrongful death lawsuit from this is going to be so heartbreaking", "Articles are reporting “live rounds” because a “live” round in the film industry always means a blank. \n\nWhat I’m saying is that nobody is reporting that the gun was loaded with real, live, bulleted ammunition, but I totally expect to hear that’s what happened here.\n\nI never said I was bringing any new information, just sharing my experience and belief that such an incident is impossible with a blank.", "The firearm did not kill Mrs. Halyna Hutchins, Alec Baldwin did.", "I'm also confused by the use of \"live round\" to also mean any round with a live power charge. If I understand it correctly they were only supposed to have two types, blanks for flash/bang and dummy rounds for closeups of the revolver where the bullets are visible. They have a pellet in them instead of powder that you can hear rattle. No live rounds should ever be even near the set.\n\nIt sounds like everything you said regarding camerawork is the standard for safety, it just has to be followed. A seatbelt is useless if you can't be bothered to wear it. \n\nhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/prop-gun-what-alec-baldwin-11634922660", "\\> insufficient practice to avoid dropping the gun when startled\n\n\\> improperly maintained firearm that discharges when dropped\n\nYeah, I'd say so.", "I came here to say this. Bravo!", "Apparently you do need to be told what a producer is, if you think it certain that Baldwin had the responsibility of hiring the people along the chain of custody for the gun.", "You are 100% responsible for what comes out of a firearm. Zero exceptions. Some hands you an firearm and says it’s unloaded it’s on you to verify.", "Wouldn't one of the credits Baldwin would get on this film be \"Executive Producer\" in addition to his acting role?\n\nI've often wondered about watching the credits on a film, and seeing almost as many executive producers as there were actors for the film. In fact, in some cases the top couple or more of the lead actors wind up also being EP's. I understand that gives them an additional cut of the movie's profits, but how do they go about getting such a credit? Skin in the game, so to speak?", "He was more than an EP, he was a full producer. “Story by” credit too. This has all the signs of an Alec Baldwin vanity project.", "Entirely depends on how much time and money is devoted to the CG.\n\nFor example, on the last action series I was involved in, we tended to use \"gas guns\": very realistic looking replica semi-automatics that used an inert compressed gas to rack the slide every time the performer pulled the trigger. They'd cycle for about a dozen \"shots\" before they had to be recharged. Because the firearm did what it was supposed to do mechanically, the CG dep't simply had to add muzzle flashes, which is a lot simpler process then making it look like the entire firearm was cycling, slide and all. Not only way safer on set, saved us a lot of setup time, too.", "Yes, modern blank rounds are so powerful that muzzle pressure from even a comparatively low-power, quarter load blank can still be in the thousands of pounds per square inch.\n\nHexum was killed when he pressed a pistol to his temple and the gas pressure from a discharged blank basically destroyed part of his brain. There may have been a piece of wadding discharged as well, but the gas pressure alone at zero distance would have been enough to collapse the side of his skull, drive bone splinters inward, and destroy a near-fatal amount of tissue. I believe he lingered in ICU for several days, but never gained conscousness. \n\nBut besides the hot, high-pressure gas that makes the \"bang\", there are also dangers from still-burning clumps of powder (which includes aluminum and magnesium) exiting the muzzle, and from small, sharp pieces of brass that can break off the casing when the rapidly expanding gases burst open the tightly crimped end, and be ejected at high velocity.\n\nThis is why competent property masters and armourers do powder tests with any unfamiliar firearm or blank load from a new supplier, and establish a minimum safe distance, before bringing it to the set.", "The round was stuck in the barrel for like 2 weeks before it was fired and killed Brandon.", "When handling firearms, there is no margin for \"I didn't do it on purpose.\" \n\nYou are either safe and responsible with your handling of a weapon, or you are negligent. There are very few instances of mechanical failure that can occur that would strip responsibility from the individual.", "That's basically what happened on the Crow.\n\nThere was dumby round, bullet but no powder, but it still had primer. When fired, it dislodged the bullet enough to lodge it in the barrel, and no one checked.\n\nLater, when firing a blank, with powder, it dislodged the bullet, killing Brandon Lee.", "Even in 2018 people didn’t post a source for every comment they made…", "If he ignored safety protocols then he is culpable along with the armer. Why would you ever point a gun at the crew, much less pull the trigger?", "remember the first guy who played mcgyver???? he put a 357 revolver to his temple loaded with blanks to his temple and blew a quarter sized piece of his skull into his brain….do you think edward norton at the end of fight club actually fired a blank into his mouth??? make some sense please", "Anyone who handles weapons should be trained in safety and verify the condition of the weapons when they receive it. It's standard protocol. Being an actor doesn't matter.", "> Proper care and handling measures were taken in every sense.\n\nPrecisely why no one died when the weapon malfunctioned.\n\nThat wasn't a negligent discharge, it discharged when he pulled the trigger while pointing down a clear range. The malfunction caused the back-pressure explosion, not the discharge.", "Nobody should touch a prop except for the propmaster and the actor/directors", "Oh so the guy with the credentials to have an opinion is wrong because a bunch of non-lawyers on reddit disagree with the post of all of the possible outcomes? Can you show me another post from someone who contradicts what is outlined in the blog post linked? \n\n> Probably 'cause the \"expert\" is a blog post on a website that also has a merch store\n\nBut jerk off to the \"pot brothers\" all the time?\n\n> You know what they call someone who gets all Ds in med school?\n\nDoctor.", "If you can't even explain it, then I don't think anything I said is a problem.", "How would you know the gun is malfunctioning? For that to be known, the gun has to have malfunctioned in the past, and by your logic, that first malfunction could only have been caused by your own negligence, despite you having no way of knowing it was going to happen because the gun was fine before the malfunction. What if the gun fired on set in this case was having its first ever malfunction?\n\n\n\n\nUnpredictable accidents happen. Health and safety laws are there to minimise the risk, but the only 100% gun-safe measure to take is for there to be no guns there at all. Just like the only way you can be 100% positive you won't be in a car crash is to not go near a car or road - but doing so doesn't make you negligent.", "Uh huh, and why do you think the movie industry put all their protocols in place.\n\n>do you think edward norton at the end of fight club actually fired a blank into his mouth???\n\nDo you think he didn't put a checked out prop gun in his mouth? Funny how he didn't follow that first rule.", "That's why they set a minimum of 20 feet distance. Also it's impossible for those gasses to kill someone, and have enough force to go through them an injure someone else. The gasses are usually only fatal if you press the gun against your head, in which case your own skull fragments become the projectiles.", "Prevent this sort of thing from happening by making an example out of the actor? That’s just silly.\n\nThe people who are most responsible for firearm safety on set would be unaffected, and therefore not incentivized.\n\nThis thing almost never happens anyway. Obviously there was a lot of negligence and failure here, and it’s a tragic set of mistakes for sure. But this is the first gun death on set in over 30 years. By that measure, Hollywood sets are some of the safest places to be as it pertains to gun safety.", "disagree. The set armorer is at fault. This is directly and the prime directive of the armorer's responsibility. Imho", "AcThuaLy, That depends if it's a subsonic or supersonic flow.", "Humans are not perfect and therefore accidents occur. That is why protocols and procedures are put in place to minimize the chance of something bad happening. But it can only be minimized not eliminated entirely. There is randomness and uncertainty in the world and not everything can be perfectly accounted for.\n\nBut, perhaps Hollywood could try making a few less movies with guns in them.", "Bruh just check the gun before you get in the \"right state\". If you're gonna be pointing a gun at someone, you should personally know that a bullet isnt going to come out and kill them. Also the gun was a revolver, not a rifle. You dont gotta take a mag out to check a revolver. Its easy enough to do that a ten year old can do it.", "According to reports from personnel on the set, the guns were being used for target practice with real bullets between filming. I suspect that it was one these real bullets that was left in that gun, which was not removed correctly before being handed over to AB with a \"cold gun\" statement.", "one of the biggest take aways from situations like this is that there is no singular point of failure, it is a chain of failure. multiple people making multiple poor/inept/dangerous decisions. \n\na few questions i had that have mostly since been answered:\n\nwhy was the gun that discharged in the persons hand -- he was practicing specific actions for a scene they were preparing to film. that gets a clear from me.\n\nwhy didn't the person who was given the gun, at least visually, clear the gun themselves before handling it -- they were told it was unloaded and he assumed it to be true. that doesn't get a clear from me.\n\na have others about production standards and why there wasn't a safety meeting/seminar after the first discharge incident but i can answer most of those myself, complacency and incompetence. the only question i really have left that i need 100% confirmation on is whether it was a \"live round\", as in a standard operational bullet, or if it was a blank round and a conflagration of circumstance (perhaps similar to what lead to the death of brandon lee ie. slug stuck in barrel from prior event, propelled by the force from a blank round). not speculation or assumptions. 100% confirmation, live round or blank. a conflagration of circumstance usually means a person(s) need to be fired, barred from recertification and sued into oblivion, but a live round making it's way on set and killing someone is such a dereliction of responsibility that it should mean at minimum manslaughter and possible prison time for whoever/how many are responsible.", "Look I’m not here to debate whether using real or cgi guns/shots are the way to go but I do understand the point many people more knowledgeable than I have made (as well as enjoying corridor crew from time to time). It’s not about the gun or the recoil or even the muzzle flash. It’s about the lighting on the rest of the scene and particle effects. A muzzle flash causes all sorts of lighting changes that happen very fast and go away causing all sorts of lighting changes across the actors, room, setting etc. They also output smoke and such that is affected by other shots and movement in the room. These things are not impossible with cgi but they are difficult and time consuming to get something realistic looking that won’t break immersion. Lighting and fluids (smoke counts as a fluid as it pertains to cgi) are top tier difficulty in regards to realism w/cgi. \n\nTime and difficulty costs and considering all we know about Hollywood and cost cutting it does make some sort of sense...a few $ for a blank and a few more $ for a safety expert on set and you have all the lighting and particle effects already there....or pay a cgi expert/team to produce ALL of those effects as naturally as possible for every. Single. Bullet. \n\nPs. Prime example is the matrix lobby scene. That was fully practical effects including the elevator explosion at the end (filmed upside-down to capture the slow mo). If that were created with a bunch of actors and extras running around a green screen holding plastic guns going “pew pew” for the cgi guys to create the entire thing from scratch later it...wouldn’t have gone well and it would have been far more expensive. \n\n\nTl;dr: it’s about the money. It’s always. About. The money.", "Live rounds are real bullets. No prop master calls a blank a “live round.” The confusion can be from a gun loaded with blanks being referred to as being “live” meaning it is ready to go. That parlance comes from special effects. \n\nLots of rumors going at around including that either the armorer or crew had been target shooting recently and may have used the same guns. Either way if they went target shooting that’s the source of a live round somehow working it’s way to set.", "im sure he checked it out himself before…. how fukin hard is it to drop the mag and lock back the slide and visually confirm an empty chamber???", "Being a dipshit doesnt make him a victim.", "What do you mean?", "I was thinking: oh no, Russel Crowe also had a similar incident?", "> If I was a producer or directer I'd find a way to make the film without real guns.\n\nBrilliant. Classic reddit sentence.", "There have been plenty of cases of firearms firing without anyone pulling the trigger. Remington got their ass handed to them over one of their rifles misfiring.\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2014/12/05/remington-to-replace-millions-of-model-700-rifle-triggers.html", "On film sets we have lots of exceptions to rules from construction to electrical. It's supposed to be a professional setting and in a professional setting people have to rely on others to be doing their job properly. Every actor doesn't have time to check every set wall or electrical outlet to make sure they are safe. This is sadly the case with firearms as well. There was supposed to be a bunch of protocols set up to prevent this.", "Fair play for not denying it. Shame you're grotesque though.", "I don't disagre but these are still rare events, and the effort/cost of making specialized calibers to avoid could be outweighed by simply better enforcing safety protocols.", "Would you take methotrexate if your physician prescribed it? Claiming expertise has it's downsides.", "Sound like a set up\nOn a set", "Would a non actual bullet actually go through one person and hit another?", "They think he should be jailed for making fun of Trump so this is a no brainer for them.", "> something totally stinks here and you know alec baldwin is a psychopath\n\nThere we go. Keep making bullshit up so you can offer unsubstantited ad hominens. I'll ignore any more bullshit that spews from your keyboard. Go masturbate with the 2A idolaters over on r/imapieceofshit.", "Some exceptions. An actor is supposed to shoot the gun at living people, the camera and other obviously unsafe targets all the time\nSince all actors cannot be extensively trained with all weapons and ammunition the responsibility is offloaded onto the armourer who is supposedly licensed and have extensive knowledge.\n\nIf this was a normal situation in real life, you'd be right. But when filming a movie and when using a real actual gun as a prop, there are always more people involved. At least there should be.", "We definitely do not know the facts lol", "found the trumper", "Well said!", "Probably written by an AI", "The NRA spends more money promoting gun safety than any other organization out there. You're just showing that your only knowledge about the NRA comes from your lefty media outlets.", "To me the big question is who brought live rounds to a movie set ? Who put live rounds in a prop gun? That is not a mistake. There is intent.", "To me the big question is who brought live rounds to a movie set ? Who \nput live rounds in a prop gun? That is not a mistake. There is \nintent.", "Good thing your opinion meant zero from the beginning?\n\nPerhaps you could support the arrogant confidence you seem to have of movie sets?", "Lol you have no idea what \"clearing a gun\" means. You literally pull the mag out, pull the slide back, and check the barrel. Takes 5 seconds.", "Apparently he pointed it at the camera, and if he did it would be because it said so in the shot list or script.\n\nIf the trigger pull was accidental or not I can't say, but it's not at all unlikely that the shot required Baldwin to fire a blank straight into the camera simply because that's the shot they wanted.\n\nAgain, where talking about filmmaking here, regular everyday gun safety protocols are applied differently because the needs and requirements are different.", "someone who actually knew what they were talking about wouldn't offer that as a response.", "I counted ~14 blinks in the first 30 seconds alone.(Also there appears to be a lot of video cuts in this video) You just don't see a closed eyelid because of the frame rate, but if you watch the eye muscles you can see he is blinking at a normal rate.", "Found the dipshit. Did you even watch the video or are you just another sociopath who automatically dismisses any expert who contradicts your preconceived ignorance?", "Its not a semantic game lol.", "I counted ~14 blinks in the first 30 seconds alone. \n\nYou might not see a literal 'frame' where the eyelids are closed, but you can definitely see the blinks from the surrounding muscles and skin.\n\nI am agreeing with you. You won't see a video frame of the closed eyelid because of the reasons you described.", "He's uneducated yet you dont even know what's involved in clearing a gun.", "Yes. It's obscene that they didn't check it in that time. Or at any time.", "If I’m not mistaken there are now reports of the “crew” using said firearm for what was basically target practice and when police responded they found blanks stored in the same area as loaded rounds. Both being live as they both had a charge.", "How would this logic be exclusive to firearms?", "Correct. He is. What my insanely longwinded post explains is why he's not in control of the movie, especially not in control of who hired and oversaw the armorer on set.", "Journalism not doing research, welcome to modern era of rag information.", "It was a failure of the shooter, point blank he should have safety checked the weapon when it was handed to him. You can blame it on the armorer or and multitude of other people, but if he as just safety checked it, this would not have happened.", "Thank you so much for that! Mind blowing the amount of responsibility your former job carried and just makes it evident how glaringly negligent the production on this movie was.", "Just a thought. If a firearm is prepared, checked and ultimately signed off by both the armourer and FAD (or someone else). If the actor was then allowed to open up and meddle with it as they saw fit free both of the others from any responsibility?\n\n They could easily say that the actor could've accidentally lodged something in the barrel, jammed the mechanism, loaded it wrong or something\n\nAfter all, an actor will never have the extensive firearm knowledge that the armourer have.", "Yeah it's a real gun, because revolvers don't need modification to fire blanks. So there's no reason for them to modify a real revolver so long as the safety precautions are being followed. As to why they weren't being followed, that's up to the studio and the police to figure out.", "Exactly. I know blanks can still be dangerous, but not \"going through someone and into someone else\" dangerous.", "It would never happen unless they for some reason had live rounds on set and mistakenly loaded those instead of the identical dummy rounds. Obviously something did happen since two people got shot.", "and this is what unsettles me. From what information I've seen, I was thinking another malfuntion of a prop/blank similar to the preceding cases. \n\nIf this was a real gun, with a real round, holy shit. I can't imagine the grief that Baldwin is dealing.\n\nIirc, CNN mentioned the armorer is the daughter of some \"well known\" armorer. So she wasn't inexperienced because I've been informed by 2A masturbators that their family is well versed since they are the epitome of gun safety.\n\nHere's my tin foil conspiracy thought. Reportedly the crew walked off the set due to safety issues. Could someone have sabotaged the prop before walking off?\n\nRegardless, I'm of the opinion the armorer is going to prison. Whether on manslaughter or murder. (Knowing violating safety policy would take it to a murder charge, wouldn't it?, IANAL)", "Agreed. But you'll see my other questions aren't as crazy", "I don't think that movie is ever coming out.", "Clearing a gun for use on a movie set, you pedantic dummies. I’m not talking about just clearing a barrel. If you guys think clearing the barrel does anything to guarantee safety, you are even dumber than I originally thought. And he’s talking about “pulling the mag out” when we are talking specifically about a revolver, so, lol.", "Why are you speaking to me?", "Don’t blank injuries also come from very close range shots, typically? Or in Brandon Lee’s case, there was already a casing (or something similar) in the gun’s barrel when the blank was fired, which caused it to fire almost as if it were a normal gun\n\nEdit: ‘t", "How would you suggest getting lasers to come out of my lightsaber?\n\nDid you seriously offer that as a concern?", "Explain it then why is that not a feasible option? Rubber prop cults are used all the time and they are less realistic than airsoft.", "That's the whole point of armourer. So actors don't need to train with weapons and use fire safety. \n\nAlso, not pointing your gun and putting fingers on trigger unless you intend to shoot rule wouldn't work in film shooting.", "Yes I'm pretty sure. Since the danger is just from the explosion/discharge through the barrel, you'd have to be within a short range.", "Now you're just being an ass. I have no time for you.", "I like this guy! I wonder why his videos stopped getting recommended to me.", "Another person who can't hold a conversation without insults.", "Also cars are dangerous so we shouldn't use real cars.", "The liver is far higher in the body than the writers of that movie realize, apparently.", "Yes, but Hollywood doesn't use firearms/military terms for a lot of it. For example, a squib isn't a misfire in movies, it's a pyrotechnic used to simulate gunfire and explosions: \nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_(explosive)\nAnd while movies consider a blank to be a live round it's not usually considered \"live ammunition\" elsewhere.", "That would make sense to me, considering someone just died 🤷‍♂️", "Right, I was having similar confusion about whether they were blanks gone wrong or a real bullet. From what I’ve read, it sounds like somebody was shooting a real gun/real rounds on break and left it on the armorer’s cart (read this in an article but not sure of the validity), which was then picked up and handed to Baldwin without being checked or cleared", "Cool. Glad we agree. I would suggest revising your first sentence then. You make it sound like people are calling him a \"producer\" when he \"isn't one\" (implied by your first sentence/paragraph. \n\nI understand he is not in charge of every little detail on the set, but being a producer, he is (at least partially) responsible for what occurs on the set.", "Shut the fuck to about things you don’t know about. Dumb shits spouting off their gun range logic have no idea what they are talking about in this situation. They keep spouting off the dumb tired line about gun safety ignoring completely that it’s different then normal gun safety when they are on set acting with a gun.", "It’s what happens when you hire non union, they don’t care about safety", "Yes. I didn't say partially occluding the barrel makes the escaping gas from the muzzle safer. It certainly can be more dangerous, especially depending on the load. I just meant to say that partially blocking the barrel is just what gives the weapons more back pressure to help the action cycle.", "You are wrong and ignorant and dumb in this situation.", "People have explained much better than I can already so I will just say armorers and firearms specialists are (supposed to be) proficient with the guns and it is not talent’s job to check safety standards, as they are not professional firearms specialists. It is far safer (on a set that doesn’t have atrocious safety protocols) for less people to handle the gun. The least amount of people touching the gun = less room for error. It is 100% on the armorer for not checking this gun. \n\nConcerns were raised to the production manager about gun safety on set, and they were ignored. From my experience, talent never has any idea what the hell is going on with the crew, so Alec likely didn’t know any of this mess was happening around him, or at the very least, didn’t know how serious the concerns were.", "Because blank only guns are quite expensive and generally considered not to be needed when you've got proper safety regulations.\n\nI'm not saying that it's a great idea, or that it's not possible to be safer, but considering how often real guns get used and how rare accidents are, it's (generally) been safe enough to risk it.", "\n>That's the whole point of armourer. So actors don't need to train with weapons and use fire safety. \n\nHorseshit.", "Yes, you’re right, Alec should have pulled the mag out of his revolver. lol. And if you think that clearing the barrel would do ANYTHING to guarantee safety… well, I just can’t help you. On a set where a revolver must be fully loaded for a down the barrel shot, clearing the barrel is to safety as scooping out some water with a bucket would be on a sinking cruise ship.", "Seems like what they did on The Crow was use lives to make the dummy and blanks. Pull the projectiles and remove the powder, strike the primer, put the projectiles back into the dead brass. Now you have your dummy. Then for blanks, pull the projectiles, decide on how much powder load you want and using powder from the dummies and what's in the proposed blanks, then wad the end. Now don't mix up the real bullets and the dummies, because even an experienced person may not feel the difference in weight (although the struck primer is the giveaway - in comes poor attention to detail from any number of people), and these loaded rounds can be mistakenly put in the gun instead of dummies.", "There are seven production companies involved with the film, the executive producer is cofounder of streamline global. Majority financing is coming from the cofounders of streamline global and bondit media. El dorado is one of the seven. He's not the only one making decisions at el dorado and fully placing the blame on him is ridiculous, honestly. Is he partially responsible? Possibly. But there's a lot of shit being thrown here to nail one person as the bad guy, and it's a long line of negligence and many people should be held responsible.", "Not true. There is only one case where they can be an accident which is when a law enforcement officer knowingly or unknowingly shoots another law enforcement officer. At least that is what is always reported by law enforcement officers. Any other time it's to be considered a negligent discharge.", "Yes. This is how it is supposed to be. Talent is not supposed to mess with the gun EVER.", "You’re ignorant. You also have a massive ego that would get people killed on set. The armorer is the expert on set. They are the final person responsible for the gun on set.", "Supposedly the armorer in charge of the weapons would go target shooting with them.", "The 1st AD doesn’t hire the Armorer, or any other crew besides ADs/PAs. Unless he’s a producer too.", "Well you say that but things like this can happen. https://youtu.be/ADGyglYqeoM \n\nAccidents do happen.", "Actor and executive producer are both not responsible for firearm safety. \n\nSure, there may be some kind of liability as producer for any and all injuries that happen on the set, but it's deeply removed from the actual person responsible, the prop master/armorer (and potentially the AD).", "Even more power than a regular bullet if it was a full load blank, right?", "That's entirely possible, but say you're a studio or irresponsible prop master. If the live rounds are cheaper, and you make sure to follow safety precautions to the letter, why wouldn't you do it if you feel you can get away with it?\n\nThis is rhetorical, of course. A sane person wouldn't allow live rounds anywhere near a live-firing gun. Someone, or more likely several people, fucked up severely.", "My biggest question, which I think is one of the most important, is why was he pointing this gun at a two of the staff? Were they a part of the scene? We’re they behind an object? Was Baldwin just being an asshole/joker and pointed it at the female before pulling the trigger? I understand that there are supposed to be safeguards in place but even blanks can cause serious injury or death if used improperly.\n\nI kind of doubt, even if he was joking around, that he would get charged for manslaughter.\n\nEdit: Video answered my question. Still seems irresponsible for all, especially with all of the negligent discharges (called accidental discharges in the video) mentioned earlier on. I would think there would be better alternatives with today’s vfx. I just know I’m a gun guy and that goes against all training you get with guns. Sad regardless", "You don’t want the actor messing with the gun after the armorer decleares the gun safe on set. Because the more the gun is manipulated after that is called on set the more chances for error.", "He's not one of the head producers, the executive producer is cofounder of streamline global. The majority financiers are the cofounders of streamline and bondit media. There are seven production companies involved.", "I still can't find any info on how TWO people were shot, i get 1 person, but was it 1 bullet that hurt 2 people or did alec fire AGAIN to \"double check\" that it was real? just the weirdest thing to me.", "All the talk of \"misfires\" was annoying. It's like, no man. A misfire can be dangerous/scary, but it's not when a gun goes off when it shouldn't. There's another term for that.", "Except you don't if you're shooting a movie. You literally can't. I've watched probably a dozen movies where the camera shows the angle of guns aimed almost directly at people.\n\nGood luck changing a 50 billion dollar industry by posting on reddit.", "This is true. \n\nAnd it's a good argument.", "Did the orange tip rod protocol come into use because of the death on The Crow?", "So you put a hydrolic cable on their arm that jolts their arm back.\n\nHonestly Americans will make any excuse to keep their guns", "Clearing a revolver is even easier than a mag fed. You pop the wheel out and check the bullets.", "They were filming a POV scene directly towards the gun. There was a sheet of thick plexiglass to protect them from the blank. Sadly, it wasn't a blank.", "That's possible. That's why we have propmasters and weapons handlers whose job is it to know the difference and check that everything is safe. This is just a domino effect of several peoples' failure to do their jobs properly.", "Would you say there are no such things as car accidents? Don't pretend that there is a difference between the two.", "People are calling him the head producer, incorrectly, that's what he was saying. Not saying that he is in fact head producer. You're just misunderstanding his post.", "There are 12 producers on the movie. You saying they’re all responsible?", "It would be trivial to rig up an in barrel light and hammer that was through the metal.", "No, there definitely are accidents. Weapons can fail catastrophically even when firing correct ammunition and with proper maintenance. Just like any other man made object, failures and thus accidents can happen.\n\nHowever, that doesn't cover this situation, where clearly negligence, or who knows, maybe even intent to harm occurred.", "Well, being an actor, he's actually on set.\n\nWhich is not the way it usually is for most producers", "Holy shit you're a moron!", "There are conflicting reports that she was part of the walk out or even union to begin with.", "That's what killed Brandon Lee though. \n\nThe primer flung the bullet forward into the barrel where it got stuck, and no one noticed. When they loaded a blank in behind it, that's what launched the bullet out. Nobody thought to stick a rod down the barrel before doing so to make sure it was clear. \n\nIdeally, they remove the powder and the primer. Nothing should go bang at all if it's supposed to be a dummy bullet. \n\nOne of my dad's friend used to shoot his revolver in his basement by taking spend rounds, replacing the primers, and stuffing wax into the opening. Enough pressure to make it pop and hit a target from a few feet.", "My first thought when I heard about the “Rust” incident was what the tiktok prop guy had to say", "The primer on the shell (small charge at the back of the casing that ignites the powder charge) punched the actual bullet out of the dummy round into the barrel. When they switched to blanks, the full charge of the blank fired the bullet ~~through his head~~ and fatally wounded him.\n\nThat part where he says the stick has to be pushed through the barrel? Yeah that's because of the Lee accident. Same with the BBs in the dummy rounds.", "Theres a VFX channel where they to over a John Wick movie and how the muzzle flashes would look in a dark environment vs the cgi in the movies", "And I'm saying that's not a good enough reason to risk people's lives.", "I think he was playing \"pew pew\" with the gun. They weren't even filming.", "Sounds like there is no such thing as an accident in any situation, if you're willing to go this far.", "Firearm safety applies anytime you're handling a firearm.", "Protocol should definitely include a final \"performer and target witness check\"\n\nAny parties involved in the potential trajectory of a bullet should have final visual confirmation of the weapon being cold and the chamber being cleared as demonstrated by the qualified weapons expert.", "Okay but you're telling reddit, and it's a thing that has been happening for decades and will continue happening. Repeating gun rules accomplishes nothing here.", "Or ideally you use a smaller load. Partially blocking the barrel can act as a choke and make the gas more concentrated and therefore more dangerous. Revolvers aren't balloons, the gas won't escape more slowly because the exit is smaller; it will take the path of least resistance for as long as it's still combusting.", "Have you ever dropped a knife? I have. Stuff happens. That doesn't necessarily mean you're negligent. It depends on the circumstances. \n\nStop trying to look like you know what you're talking about. You're just embarrassing yourself.", "I'm misunderstanding it because it is confusing. Would be an easy edit to eliminate the confusion.", "Sure, but I would feel uncomfortable pointing any gun at someone and pulling the trigger without seeing with my own eyes that it is safe to do so. Even if it were a prop for a movie, I'd want to check myself before pointing it at people.", "You are hopeless. Your premise that real life and prop gun safety should be identical is asinine and willfully thoughtless. I’d LOVE to see you have this conversation with an armorer on a movie set.", "Could’ve been a fast sequence where Baldwin didn’t realize what happened - assuming the camera was shot at second. Otherwise, no idea why the gun would be shot again after seeing a camera get obliterated in front of you.", "It was a small independent film, so it may not have had as many cooks in the kitchen as one might expect. \n\nOr it had a bunch of low-investment producers. \n\nEither way, it was poorly executed. \n\n(Yeesh, poor choice of words)", "That youtuber example was negligence. He was using rounds that were way too hot for the gun, with an unknown load. He even commented in the video how big the fireballs coming from the gas were.", "There is never, never supposed to be a live round on set, ever.", "I mean how expensive could a casted round realistically cost if the entire industry switched to it and it was the norm? Wouldn't have to wonder if the firing pin was removed. Wouldn't need specially modified barrels to trap projectiles. Seems like a no-brainer really.", "It is pretty common for the armorer to show the talent the gun is empty, thankfully. This set was just garbage.", "you are so dumb you dont even know what a \"misfile\" is.", "There are absolutely cases of this. However, it in this instance, in involves a critical manufacturing error: \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fn6GFSwTEw", "Let this be a lesson to show solidarity with workers. If Alec had decided to show solidarity with striking film crew instead of working with scabs, this wouldn't have happened.", "Yes, Jon-Erik Hexum died fooling around with a gun loaded with blanks on the set of the show Cover Up in the 80’s. It didn’t penetrate his body, but he fired the gun point blank at his temple and the subsequent explosion caused a fatal skull fracture.", "Hey have you ever made a mistake when performing a task you're really good at?", "Nah, this was a far bigger fuckup. They had real rounds in that gun, and the armorer wasn't even on set. It's not even clear if they were even filming, they were just screwing around with the gun.", "Hierarchically speaking -- a producing credit is more powerful than an Executive Producing credit. Let's just all know that.\n\nExecutive Producer is one of the most disingenuous credits you will see in a credit list, especially on an indie movie. An EP can be someone who financed the entire movie (clearly important) or someone's Uncle who had the phone number of an agent from that time he accidentally got an email sent to him by accident from someone else. I've literally seen films that have listed fake names as Executive Producers to make their low budget film feel bigger.\n\nWhen it comes to actors. Often times if you offer them a role and their agent will come back and say that for them to even consider the role and being on your movie, they want an EP credit, 25 points on the film (which is a lot) and \"X\" amount of dollars, transportation... etc etc. It's pretty boilerplate at a certain budget range that you start negotiating all those things. And EP is just part of it. It makes business sense to have your name up their with the business folks.\n\nWhat a lot of actors have started doing, like Brad Pitt with Plan B and Alec Baldwin with El Dorado -- is they've started their own company. So they can develop or come on earlier than when a film makes an offer to them as an actor. That way they have more creative involvement in the development of, say, a role they might want to play like Alec Baldwin with Rust. \n\nFor someone like Brad Pitt -- it allows him to produce movies he otherwise couldn't himself (because he doesn't have the expertise) by starting a company and hiring people to help make the films with him.\n\nEDIT: I'm so sorry I'm long winded. I'm not usually, this is just my wheelhouse and I know too much.", "Yeah I actually took the time to watch the video. Awful situation.", "Cheney admitted he had had one beer before the discharge. It's not unreasonable to assume he might have been feeling the effects of alcohol.", "The popular notion for 130 years of movies is that you don't need to bother if it's a revolver, because as long as you're following all the safety protocols, just loading it with blanks should be safe enough. And most prop houses don't likely don't want to pay to modify revolvers so they can do the same basic thing.\n\nI say if they want safe blank revolvers, they have to make the cylinders only be able to accept specially made cartridges, and never a round that could be potentially live. Along with partially blocking the barrel to prevent shrapnel or other projectiles from being fired. But they won't do that.", "Perhaps the right frame of mind, but if the slide rails fail on a semi-auto, and you get hit in the face, despite performing proper maintenance and using the correct ammo, that is 100% the manufacturers fault.", "Unfortunately stupid people rarely know that they are stupid. That's why everybody should use the same safety practices when handling firearms.", "If a gun can fire blanks they refer to it as a live gun. Because blanks can still cause significant injury.", "Yep which he didn’t do. It was a misfire during drawing the gun. They were setting up the shot with the safe gun before they filmed the actual shot with the hot gun.", "I don’t think that’s in realistic to provide training on set with the specific firearms being used on set. Yes, several people failed but did they all just assume others were doing what they were suppose to? That’s why the person firing the gun should be the last person to verify it’s in the proper config.", "Movies still use live rounds especially if they're doing a close up shot or they want to shoot at an object and make it look as real as possible", "And the asshats at the studio hired non-union (or inexperienced) replacements. Really stupid move, clearly.", "Yes, they all bear some responsibility.", "I read they also walked out because of safety concerns that were being ignored", "Hollywood/others don't have to use military/firearms definitions... but they should/do (I assume) have definitions regardless.\n\n\nI was an explosive guy in military, and am now quasi LEO, and oddly enough experienced a squib misfire just 3 weeks ago... very dif thing/term/usage than military/explosive world.\nThat said, a \"blank\" WAS/IS a live round because it will fire and eject projectiles from the barrel. We treated/treat anything that goes boom, and shit flies out of barrel as \"live\".\n\nPractice, dummy, blank, sim, ball, frange, jacketed, etc, etc. Many dif \"rounds\" available, and anything that has potential to propel a projectile would be considered a \"live round\" as it sure as hell could kill/maim/injure.\n\n\n\nBut what hollywood says/does, I have no idea... nor any other groups that I have no expetience with.\n\nBottom line, each group should have rules/regs for such things, and follow them...", "No no no. I’ve been on movie sets. Once the armorer gives the actor the “all clear”, the actor cannot go around double checking or fucking around with the gun. Once the actor is handed the gun he is required to use it as intended in the script. Don’t talk about stuff you don’t know.", "From what I've heard he pointed the gun towards a camera that had people behind it or had people very very close to it. For me he shoulders part of the blame because you should never point a gun add another person even if it had blanks. Obviously its not all his fault or anything but he is also a tiny bit responsible.", "Live rounds also include blanks.", "Could a ten year old tell the difference between a live round and a dummy round designed to look like a live round so the gun doesn’t look empty when pointed head on ? Normal “range safety rules” don’t apply to film sets.", "So do we just pretend these things don't happen? There is a line between negligence and accident.", "WTF do I know. None of my guns have ever killed anyone due to negligent discharge…..", "And you think pointing real guns at people is perfectly acceptable as long as its only Hollywood elites. Your mentality resulted in two people being shot.", "Doesn't it?! Called the Chair Force for a reason.", "That's why he is a Professional propmaster. Doesn't let the guns out of his sight even for a millisecond.", "Nah it really is the most elementary shit in the world. My grandpa taught me how to clear a fucking BB gun when I was like 4. Baldwin is at fault as are a number of other people.", "Literally would have saved a life if those rules had been followed and you can't argue otherwise.", "> There's also the notorious case of the (correct me if I'm wrong here) Brazilian police's service gun.\n\n[Good ol' Taurus](https://youtu.be/2fn6GFSwTEw)", "I've worked in a lab. Things get dropped. I've worked in kitchens. Knives get dropped. Pretending it doesn't happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen.", "Yup. It was the armorer (or propmaster etc) who should have been 100% certain the weapon was properly loaded the moment before handing it to a performer who's putting their trust in them. It was absolutely not Alec Baldwin's fault for not checking the gun, as it's not his responsibility. From what I've read, it was an assistant director who assumed the weapon was safe without checking before putting it in the actor's hand, but that's only alleged right now.", "In Lee's case the revolver had previously fired a shot with a cartriage and primer, no gunpowder (for a close up shot like this video describes I believe). The bullet was ejected from the casing due to the explosion of the primer but because there was no gunpowder it didn't get very far and got lodged in the barrel. The same gun was then used again without cleaning or checking the barrel, this time with a blank (gunpowder and primer in the casing but no bullet on the end) and was aimed at Lee for the scene. The shot dislodged the bullet from the previous shot and it acted like a regular bullet, hitting Lee in the spine - he died shortly after.", "From everything I've read, when pointing the gun at the camera the crew is cleared and the shot is conducted wirelessly. There is not a scenario in which an actor points the gun in the direction of the crew.", "Guns are no different than any other things we handle. We don't suddenly become imnune to making mistakes because we're handling a weapon. Even if we take extra time to be more careful (which we should when handling weapons), stuff still occasionally happens. Just like how a person can drop a $1500 phone and break the screen. Obviously they're trying to be careful because it's an expensive phone, but every once in a while something happens. It's a flawed world and people make mistakes, that doesn't necessarily mean they were being negligent.", "Yeah, and guns are magic. As soon as you pick one up, if you're a true man, you instantly know its status. You tell em gunslinger!", "lol whatever you say trumper", "> fired the bullet through his head\n\nI believe he got shot in the abdomen and hit spine.", "That’s fair. I guess they haven’t specified that it was a through and through; but how it’s been reported, that’s the impression I was left with.", "Why don’t they have “prop” guns locked up and before every scene have someone inspect it, I don’t think it would take too much time to make sure everyone is safe…", "You'd think so.", "That's cool. They're gonna keep doing it, though", "All prop guns are guns but not all guns are prop guns", "Of course, but I think it's a bad frame of mind when deciding where to place blame. That phrase is meant to be used in a training situation, not a judicial one. It's not impossible for there to be a fault with a gun or the ammunition. I'm sure the investigation will turn up that negligence was at play here, but it shouldn't be a default sentiment to absolve an entire party of responsibility by parroting a poorly attributed catchphrase.", "You can tell if a revolver is empty or loaded with blanks when it’s pointed head on. It was likely supposed to be loaded with dummy (non firing) rounds for that shot. Something went wrong.", "that is okay. just downvote instead of admitting you have no clue what the difference is between a misfire and a negligent discharge.", "If I was a lifeguard, I'd just shit in the pool, that'd fix the problem", "I am not even sure it would have helped. It sounds like the very thing they walked off for was gun safety issues.", "None of my guns have ever killed anyone either. Same with 99.99% of all gun owners. You think you’re special? Lmao. Again, don’t talk about things you don’t know.", "Sounds like a business opportunity.", "You might be cynical.", "I am an armorer for an LE agency, and the dudes in my agency are just frothing at the mouth placing all the blame on Baldwin because he's the subject of their ire for having an opinion on guns that differs from theirs. \n\nOne of the things that's really, really bothering me is how all these armchair experts are talking about how Baldwin shouldn't have ever pointed that gun at Halyna Hutchins, because I personally know each of these motherfuckers has pointed my modified, blank-fire guns at their buddies during training exercises. \n\nTo a man, every one of these dickheads has pointed one of my modified guns at another \"player\" and pressed the trigger, and now they're being high and mighty about judging someone else who did the same thing in what should have been a controlled environment.", "Then don’t get into acting cause there’s always someone who’s paid to do it for you.", "It’s kinda weird, I actually saw two different stories on that. It seems like the abdomen story is true, but I read one article that said he was shot in the head and died instantly. Maybe just old stories resurfacing.", "Did you watch the video? It explains why the gun was pointed at the camera", "[For those that don't know the reference.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfZzkhfz89c)", "Oh no I called it a misfire instead of an accidental discharge or a malfunction of the trigger mechanism. That totally negates my whole point, I guess those people killed by faulty Remington rifles are perfectly fine now.", "You’re ignorant in this situation", "oh are u triggered much…..alec baldwin threw all the experienced union peepl off the job that morning…..hes a union buster…what do u have an autographed picture of alec baldwin under yur pillow????….and u just get triggered by guns dont you..apparent by yur own words….you and yur regimented brain with your triggers along ideological lines….who gives a shit wether someone is pro/con 2A….cant u get past left/right paradigm and be a fukin human instead???", "I suppose you could shift the negligence to the manufacturer in this instance but prior to recall my brand-new Springfield XDS twice discharged when the slide was released on a full magazine.\n\nI didn't use it again after the second one but I certainly wasn't a negligent party for properly loading and operating a new firearm.", "Sounds to me like a possible ricochet or shrapnel from the bullet hitting the camera. I haven't looked that deep in to it", "If Alec left when everyone else did b/c of safety conditions then they wouldn't be able to continue until they resolved it.", "I own some real dummy rounds. It does not have the pieces of a real bullet. It’s a solid piece of I think hard plastic. I don’t understand why Hollywood has to take real bullets to make dummy rounds or dummy bullets. Surely, there’s a company that makes very realistic looking true dummy bullets.", ">no idea why the gun would be shot again after seeing a camera get obliterated in front of you.\n\nEver been so mentally invested in an action that you have known you should stop but you can't?\n\nSame thing here. The brain is queued for a series of actions and may be in a state of disbelief that something bad has happened it just follows through on the predisposed course of action.", "I mean... it's not though? The armorer exists for that purpose and also to keep the guns safe from the chaos of a film set. An actor has a dozen things going on at all time- they're in hot costume, they have lights directed in their eyes, they're obeying directions from the director, the dp, interacting with multiple props, trying to remember lines and above all that trying to sink into a character so that you and I believe that character is a real person.\n\nYou take any person well-trained with firearms and drop them into that situation for 12-13 hours a day, for 12 days and they will make a mistake. They will forget what type of ammo is in the gun, they will forget to clear it. Something will happen. The armorer exists to be the person on the crew thinking about the weapons for those 13 hours a day. They exist to keep all other people from touching the weapon so that when that weapon lands in the hands of an actor that actor does not need to think twice about the safety of the firearm, knows exactly what's in it and what it can do in the scene.\n\nIn this case, Baldwin was told it was a cold gun. He was doing exactly what he expected to be able to do with a cold gun, and what he was directed to do by the dp and the director.", "Yeah I heard head originally. I modified the post to be more vague.", "Pretty much what they use airsoft on sets for. Some of them even have realistic looking rounds.\n\nNo need to start a new line of production when you can just repurpose existing technology. But I getcha.", "Yup gas release. People can lose fingers to revolvers because of the wrong finger placement", "> I keep seeing people saying Alec Baldwin was the “producer” and that his company was the “production company.” I even see people saying he was the “lead” or “head”. This is inaccurate and needs context because it’s way, way more complicated in filmmaking. \n\nThat's pretty fucking straightfoward. He quite literally states \"This is inaccurate\"", "Correct. Lots of misinformation in this thread. Including the misunderstanding of what \"live round\" means in context of film shoots. Not the same terminology as a regular firing range situation.", "well explained!", "I know. The horseshit is the bit about the armorer being an excuse for the actors to be ignorant morons.", "Missfires or shrapnel stuck in the barrel if not cleaned act as a projectile if not caught. It's what happened on The Crow set.", "Yeah, I do love movies with guns in them. War movies, crime, action, you name it. So yes, I think it’s OK for “Hollywood elites” (I call them actors/actresses) to use real guns so real, believable stories can be told. But it is safety critical that a highly trained professional be fully responsible for safety and that their role is taken extremely seriously on set. And that this responsibility cannot possibly lie on, like you said, a Hollywood elite who likely doesn’t know shit about guns.", "No shit Sherlock. Thanks for your condescending explanation but it really doesn’t matter what adverb you use. I can’t believe you don’t understand how accidents work.", "For those kinds of shots, it seems like you could make a dummy where all 6 rounds are fused together on the primer side. It's something that would never exist as live rounds and by filling all of the chambers of the cylinder, it would prevent a live round from accidentally getting mixed in.", "Guns like the SIG P320 weren’t drop safe when they first came out. The first couple times they fired when dropped would be accidental. After that it’s negligence because now it’s a known issue.", "Regardless of the situation, Baldwin should’ve checked the gun. Firearm safety 101", "Amen", "If he bothered to check, he wouldn’t have killed someone. He might be at lesser fault than the person who told him it was empty, but he’s still at fault, regardless", "Not a missfire, I believe that was the first point he brought up in the video. \n\nAnd yes, you’re correct about what happened on the set of The Crow. My point is that it’s not moving at quite the speed or velocity as a real bullet. That being said, Im sure it could still the projectile to go through a person.", "Yes particularly if it is a full metal jacketed round and the first hit is in a fleshy part. For instance a straight on shot through the side that is below the ribs and above the pelvis going through the kidney is unlikely to be seriously preturbed and will continue on.\n\nThis is why one of the rules of firearm safety is be sure of your target and what is beyond it.", "The armourer was apparently rather inexperienced and this was her second ever time on the job.", "A victim that if they followed firearm safety, probably wouldn’t have shot 2 people, killing one. The amount of time he’s spent complaining about guns he could’ve learned how to properly use one, safely.", "Wait, you actually think that the US has the most freedom? I thought you were kidding. The US isn't at the top of any of the existing freedom indices. The Netherlands (where I'm from) scores higher in many regards. Having said that, many countries score better still.\n\n[Source](https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2021-03/human-freedom-index-2020.pdf)", "When I was a kid in the 90's, they brought in some guy for an assembly who demonstrated how powerful blanks were by shooting through a phonebook. So possibly it was a blank and took some shrapnel off the camera if it were too close?\n\nIt really was a different time.", "I didn't say he had the responsibility of hiring them, I said he was (at least partially) responsible for the tragedy. I've worked in this industry for over a decade, you're only making yourself sound foolish. Baldwin didn't have the responsibility of hiring them, he had the responsibility of keeping the crew safe.", "It was a actual bullet lodged in the barrel from a previous shot, with a fully-loaded blank loaded behind it. So effectively a complete cartridge.", "Yea... but can they shoot THROUGH someone and hit another?", "The same first AD that worked on The Crow 2...?", "Truth", "I've always wondered about that explanation. If he had ever fired a weapon before I feel he would have never done such a thing. If he had any on set training, he definitely would have been told not to do such a thing. \nHowever, I recall statements that there was a women in the trailer with him and I could see her, having no firearms experience and assuming blanks were perfectly safe, messing around and performing such an action. \nI can only assume that forensic testing for gun powder residue was performed on her to make sure she didn't fire the weapon herself. I understand that gunpowder will settle on clothing when being near a fired weapon, but also powder will be embedded into the skin of a person who is actually holding a weapon when it is fired. I wonder if there is a way to find out if that sort of test was done.", "It's true that he's not a shot caller on that set, but he shouldve walked out along with the workers that did over safety concerns.", "Well for starters there are 4 primary rules not 3.", "It is both of their fault. The armorer for allowing real ammunition to be loaded in any of the firearms and Baldwin for not verifying the firearm was safe before pointing it at the crew, ragardless or even especially because the planned shot involved pulling the trigger.", "Hey idiot - we live in the real world, not fuckn Hollywood dipshit, so LIVE AMMUNITION is considered LIVE FUCKING AMMUNITION….\n\nIdgaf what movie sets “contexts” of grammar when talking about “blanks” are 🤔 \n\nAnd as far as the second paragraph I have truly no idea wtf you’re on about again, so plz gather the rocks in your brain, and reply to some other “idiot” who lives in Hollywood with you and sleeps on movie sets and speaks in movie “context” \n\nLmao foh", ">Absolutely not. No live ammo should ever come anywhere near a film set, \n\nCorrect. People are saying shit like \"nuh uh, they use real bullets for slow motion shots blah blah\" No. Not ever. That stuff is never done on set. It's done by the second unit, or outsourced to someone else, done far far away, and certainly not with the talent holding the fucking weapon.", "Is there anywhere a description of what happened? How they where standing, what was supposed to happen, etc.?", "People defending mutli-millionaires who DEFINITELY could have made the set safer... lol", "At the end of the day the condolences was merely a polite gesture. That really was not the main part of the video.", "Does his \"this is inaccurate\" apply to the first sentence, the second sentence, or to both?", "Nope", "Plus there is often paper that gets released (but no news report explains wtf was in the chamber)", "You deserve the insults though. An actor shouldn’t open up a weapon to check it, they aren’t qualified and they may fuck things up in a dangerous way.", "She was negligent and probably should have been fired after the first ND. This, however, highlights Baldwin and the directors negligence for both not controlling their set to ensure safety and not double checking weapon safety when the shot involved a weapon pointed at any human being.", "1 incident is way too much creating entertainment", "I mean the first AD's job is to push back and keep everyone safe.\n\nBut yeah multiple failures on many levels. This will be a teaching case for decades.", "What?! You do realize this caused death and it’s not the first time", "You know what the malfunction was, and how to have avoided it? How do you know the details of what actually happened?", "I can't see blaming Baldwin. They pay lots of money for experts. They had someone who's sole job is the fund they use . So why would he question if they are doing the job right? \n\nThe person who is responsible is the person in charge of the weapon.", "No it’s not safe when people die. What are you smoking? 😂🙄", "Hence the usual strict safety regime put on these things.", "[The same AD who worked on The Crow 2?](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr19)", "and AGAIN - it was not Baldwin's job, it was the armorer's fucking job to handle the firearms.", "You think all the producers should stand in a line and check weapons to make sure the armorer did their job?", "You should review Screen Actor's guild protocols for handling a firearm. Not saying this guy is wrong in what he said but the protocols are clear. Never under any circumstance point a firearm at a person.", "I work out here in the area where they are filming, it's been a fucking nightmare, reporters all over the place, police bogging up roads. This whole thing has been a tragedy. I know one of the guys that provide horses for the movie and he said that the set has been a fucking mess since this shit happenes. They finally packed everything up and left yesterday.", "One major incident lile this every 30 years would seem to indicate that Hollywood learned quite well and this incident highlights what happens when those lessons and the protocols that come with them are not followed.", "I’m taking the stance that a bullet with a projectile was fired from the gun, striking 2 individuals. If that’s the case, which is the general consensus, the fault is on Baldwin. If the cause turns out to be something less likely, such as a malfunction like you’re oddly suggesting, then we can have a different conversation.", "I mean have you ever called 911? Usually after you say where you are and what happened, there's a lot of not urgent time where you wait on the line until the police/ambulance/firetruck shows up, and usually they'll ask for more details of what happened while you're waiting. I don't think this coming up during the call is really indicative of anything in particular", ">An actor shouldn’t open up a weapon to check it, they aren’t qualified and\n\nYes they are. Actors are required to have firearm safety training if handing firearms.", "This guy literally is an expert though.", "Any armorer worth paying would take the gun away from an actor after they opened it up to “verify” it was safe to shoot, and go through the entire procedure of checking it again. Seriously, you actually think anyone should trust actors at all to do that?", "I get what you’re saying, but a normal reaction would be to freak out if you weren’t expecting that to happen. If it were the other way, camera being shot 2nd, I would agree 100%. Can’t really argue against it tho as I wasn’t in any situation close to that.", "If Baldwin checked the gun and practiced basic, literally rule number 1 of firearm safety, would he have killed someone?", "What? This is the least Reddit comment I’ve ever read. \n\nFrom now on, whatever the situation is, act like you are an expert in that area. Assumptions, hearsay and personal stories that don’t relate are going to be your go to. Bonus if you throw in some psychology terms in there too.", "Don't worry bud I know you've been talking out of your ass all over the thread. I'm just trying to correct your misinformation so Peele don't come along and believe you knuckleheaded posts. If I could ask a favor though, it would be to stop talking about shit you don't understand", "That's reddit. Once you know a field well enough it becomes trivial to spot people spouting crap. Then you realise reddit is like that for every topic.", "Pilots are trained to fly the plane. Actors are trained to pretend. \nI’m surprised this needs to be said, over and over.", "Its not his fucking job, it's the job of the prop master/armorer. They dropped the ball and handed Baldwin, who would have trusted them to be doing their job and correctly, a loaded fucking gun. Baldwin's job is to act.", ">Also, supposedly several of the crew members were using the gun for target practice, while on the film set. I'm not sure if that's substantiated, but if it's true then it is a grossly negligent thing to do. Especially with a weapon meant to be later used as a prop.\n\nWhat the fuck were they doing that for?", "When people say, \"they use real bullets for slow motion shots\", they're merely demonstrating their ignorance. \n\nWhile specialty high speed cameras are of course used to study and/or demonstrate ballistic principles (e.g. Mythbusters), such things are simply not done for cinematic purposes, because they serve no point. \n\nWe use CGI, because it (a) doesn't present a physical danger to cast and crew; (b) appears realistic, as it is closely modelled after just such ballistic research photography; and (c) can readily incorporate whatever special visual gimmicks the director wants to see in that particular shot: the bullet rotating in slo-mo, air current eddies, still-combusting gases being pulled in its wake, etc.", "I also heard it was a head shot. Not sure if it’s the truth tho..", "So, looks like we should be seeing a criminal negligence statement come out soon.", "They gave up on the movie?", "Answer the question: if Baldwin checked the gun to make sure it was safe for handling, the thing he’s publicly and passionately spoken out against, would he have shot and killed someone?", "I guarantee I understand more about firearm safety than you do.", "Ah, I get it, I think. :D Seems movie financing is where all the fun starts.\n\nMy only real contact with movie production was in sound track production in scoring and arranging for some basically unmemorable independent films almost 40 years ago. Student films. Honestly, just helped out the composer some, and really not sure I even got credits. No biggie, life moves on.", "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_discharge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_discharge)\n\n> An unintentional discharge is the event of a firearm discharging (firing) at a time not intended by the user. An unintended discharge may be produced by an incompatibility between firearm design and usage, such as the phenomenon of cooking off a round in a closed bolt machine gun, a mechanical malfunction as in the case of slamfire in an automatic weapon, or be user induced due to training issues or negligence. The phenomenon has also been defined in scientific literature as an activation of the trigger mechanism that results in an unplanned discharge that is outside of the firearm’s prescribed use. \n\n> An accidental discharge (AD) occurs when there is a mechanical failure of the firearm. This can include things like firearms that do not have mechanisms to render them drop safe falling a sufficient distance, a firing pin stuck forward, a sear failing, or rounds heating sufficiently to spontaneously ignite in the chamber (as may happen in a closed bolt machine gun).", "Not safe enough, clearly", "The actors aren't supposed to be handling real weapons. They're supposed to be handling what are essentially toys. It's the armorer's (and others) job to make sure that's the case. \n\nLike...as an actor, you are told to take a real gun, point it at another person, and pull the trigger. Gun safety is out the window, unless the appropriate checks are in place to make certain that gun isn't going to fire. And those things are not the actors responsibility.", "My guess is no. But I can guess any preconceived notions.", "Uh oh, hot dog!", "You may have heard about the previous death on stage by shooting, I can't remember his name but he shot himself in the head with a blank but at that range it was deadly.", "Correct me if I'm wrong but were they even filming when Baldwin pulled the trigger? And if they were, why was both the director, and the cinematographer directly behind the camera whilst the weapon was being fired in its direction? I always heard that there are certain precautions taken when taking shots to protect the crew.", "During the call, it sounds like she's talking to someone else, not the 911 operator. She says \"did you hear how he yelled at me?!\" She wouldn't be saying that to the operator, she would have been saying that to someone on set who had witnessed her get yelled at by the AD. She just watched someone die and the negligence of it was probably overwhelming to realize.", "Because the usual strict safety regime wasn't employed(???) What aren't you getting?", "The basic rules of firearms safety are successfully taught to tens of thousands of children a year. Is your position that Alec Baldwin is unable to learn the basic principles of firearm safety that children are capable of learning and following?\n\nFurthermore, safety transcends job role in every industry. That includes Hollywood. There is no workplace where post incident a person gets to claim \"safety isn't my job.\"\n\nNo one is saying Baldwin needs to be a certified armorer able to check frames for signs of fatigue that could result in failure when fired. Being able to look at a firearm and say this is loaded or this is unloaded is not a specialized skill. It requires at least one functional eye and knowing the difference between a bullet being present or not present.", "Yes, that’s what I expected.\n\nCGI is hard, and expensive. CGI is as good as it has ever been, but firing a gun has real life mechanical consequences that are hard to fake, and impossible to CGI. Recoil transfers to the actor, and it’s so easy to see when the gun isn’t actually recoiling.\n\nObviously safety is a concern, but CGI isn’t some magic fix-all", "Oh, I see, you don't understand negligence. Negligent acts are, by definition, accidental. Negligence is an accident for which someone bears some responsibility, because they had a duty to take special care to prevent it. Like when you're carrying a loaded gun.\n\nIt's elementary, Watson.", "Yes, but if the FILM SAFETY protocols were all followed it wouldn’t have happened either. Just because the NRA says don’t point a gun at someone doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen every single day. Use some common sense — a properly run film set is probably the safest place in the world to hold a firearm.", "Didn’t they use guns with fake mechanical recoil on John Wick? Seems like that might be better", "I doubt a rule change is needed. This accident happened precisely because the rules weren't followed. Why would we expect that more rules would solve the issue. \n\nSomeone needs to be held responsible and go to jail. This is gross negligence. Actual consequences is what we need here. And not some low level scapegoat either, the weapons master IMO had the responsibility of nit letting this happen, so that's who should be held criminally liable.", "You're just a pro-gun-nut who's trying to blame a victim in this tragedy. There have been protocols for guns ON MOVIE SETS since Brandon Lee was murdered and if a live round made it into the hands of an actor then it's the prop/armorer's fault. And bet your ass Baldwin's going to take his stance on guns and morons who love them up a few more notches.", "No, I'm good.", "> I understand that gunpowder will settle on clothing when being near a fired weapon, but also powder will be embedded into the skin of a person who is actually holding a weapon when it is fired. I wonder if there is a way to find out if that sort of test was done.\n\nI read a book on Camorra, an Italian organized crime organization. Apparently not only does that happen but it's pretty hard to remove and what those people will do if they shoot someone, is also go to a legitimate range and legally shoot some guns, so they have gunpowder on them from that. That way the police can prove they fired a gun that day, but it won't stick as proof that they shot the victim because the gunpowder could have come from the range.", "Nope", "That's a good point, but I was essentially saying the actor would be just as qualified to verify safety, not an untrained actor.", "It might make more sense if he adjusted the quotes in the first sentence to include the word “the”. So he wasn’t “the producer” because that makes it sound like he was the only producer.", "I like hearing from experts about what should happen after the fact when information starts to get out. The more reactionary, the most it's closer to a pundit trying to make a political decision on something a-political. Baldwin making fun of Trump has nothing to do with this death or loss of procedure and it takes away from the real discussion about how to protect actors on set, how to ensure safety and proper protocols are followed and how to ensure it doesn't happen again. Yet I see a lot of \"haha Baldwin\" from the likes of Candace Owen and some nit jobs out there.", "I don’t care how many people have signed off on a firearm being loaded correctly for a movie shoot, if I was the one who had to point it at someone and pull the trigger, I’d damn sure verify the load myself.", "Nobody can be sure if the target practice thing was the case but if that happened I expect there's a jail cell out there being prepped for whomever was responsible for that firearm.", ">Highland applies pressure to these producer to come in on budget, hopefully under. And that pressure applied forces the proxy-producer to cut corners in hopes to please Highland. And this is how messes like this happen.\n\nI wonder if this makes it hard for directors and actors to participate in set walk-offs, or if that's even an option for them. I would imagine it's not an easy call to make, deciding whether to hold up production or not.", "Guaranteed. You're not even legal allowed to own a gun.", "What don’t YOU get? Why the fuck are you using real revolvers?? Shut the fuck up", "This is my whole problem with it. Low caliber bullets often do not make it through human bodies, especially if they are normal or hollow points and seriously deform on contact. \n\nWadding, even if it was fairly dense, is going to spread out on any impact and it's kinetic energy will be distributed. It could absolutely be enough to kill someone when all that energy gets shoved into them, and has killed people in the past, but it is not making it through a body. It will lose energy and speed too quickly.", "I was about to write that negligence doesn’t imply it was no accident. But that is another trap due to minor language differences between German an English. \n\nThe German “Unfall” can be caused by negligence, even drunk driving. The definition of “Accident” in English excludes such causes.\n\nLuckily I checked it before I hit “reply” 😀. \n\nP.S. The term “live round” is creating a lot of confusion in the German press. It is translated as “scharfe Munition” (which would be a real bullet) by most outlets.", "Even if the actor is an ex navy seal the armorer is the last one to make the check and makes the call.", "Being a multimillionaire does not make you more culpable for an accident.", "Well someone needs to grow a little more mature before engaging in a discussion...", "Why can’t you answer the question? Is it because you’re mentally deficient? Who has to RESORT to CAPITALIZING words on an Internet forum, swearing like a deranged lunatic instead of accurately assessing the situation for what it is. \n\nOf course I’m “pro gun”, most people are. It’s a fundamental right. To see a person who speaks out against a private citizen’s ownership of a firearm and firearm safety, it’s ironic to see so many people coming to his defense. He didn’t practice firearm safety. His negligence resulted in killing someone.\n\nOr as your unhinged shaky fingers would probably put it:\n\nHE FUCKING KILLED SOMEONE!!!!", "The best explanation I can come up with unfortunately is that it was the 80’s, and safety measures were still entirely too lax. The Jon Hexum accident was only a few years removed from tragedy on the set of the Twilight Zone movie, which you think would have woken the industry up and led to greater safety overall, but clearly that’s not the case even today.", "there is little compatibility between the standard American gun safety common wisdoms and the operating procedure on a film set.\n\nactors every day point weapons at things that they do not fully intend to destroy, for instance\n\nthe key difference is that on set, we trust in the armourer to maintain and make safe any weapons. it's the armourers responsibility to check the weapon, and confirm that it is safe to fire in the direction of another human being.\n\nif we started having actors checking their weapons then that begins to destroy that chain of trust, negating the work that the armourer should be doing before handing the weapon to the actor. \n\nso in essence, a discharge in the process of shooting a scene should ALWAYS be safe, however a culture of safety mismanagement had pervaded the shoot, and the armourer failed in their duty to provide the actor with a safe prop.", "When I was a kid I cut open a shotgun shell and emptied all the powder and wadding. Nothing but the blasting cap left. I then hit the blasting cap with a nail and hammer. When it popped I seriously thought I lost my fingers. It was a couple of hours before I could use those fingers again.", "He has power and authority to make the set a safer place. Plenty of people walked off this set citing safety concerns, Baldwin would have known about that, it's a small crew.", "A link to a badass Michael Caine moment AND a relevant personal anecdote? You spoil us, friend.", "Were you in a union? What are your thoughts that this could've been avoided if they stuck with unionized labour?", "I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like a lot of rules were being broken on this set.", "> When handling firearms, there is no margin for \"I didn't do it on purpose.\" \n\nWhether someone does something on purpose or not is a fact. \"There is no margin\" makes no sense - it would only make sense if it was some question of subjective opinion.\n\nWhether something is negligent or not isn't simply a fact. Still, it seems to me this isn't the standard we use for anything else in life. The rules of firearm handling might well, if adhered to perfectly, prevent almost all accidental injuries, just as the rules of the road, if adhered to perfectly, would prevent almost all accidental injuries. Trouble is, people aren't perfect, and if you cause a crash because you were distracted (without, say, using your phone) we don't usually call it negligence.\n\nNot taking human beings' inherent fallibility into account when describing unintentional injuries seems like a cop-out that has the effect of sounding like an attempt to minimise the danger by implying it can all be mitigated.", "Nothing says it went through her. The claim is that it killed her and injured someone behind her. Could have just been shrapnel that went past her and hit the other guy.", "The criminal liability scale goes Intent > Knowledge > Recklessness > Negligence.\n\nIf they brought real ammunition and used it in prop guns, that would definitely qualify as Recklessly, and possibly Kowingly, causing the accident depending on how hard the prosecutor wants to go and how they are specifically defined in that jurisdiction.\n\nIntent in this context would mean that they actually wanted the gun to go off and injure or kill someone, and put the bullet in the gun for that purpose.\n\nI know you were probably not trying to use legal terminology here, and so this is a super pedantic response. But I find law really interesting and like talking about it.", "Did you watch the video? He goes over what was supposed to happen, and what did happen.", "A normal reaction can be to freak out. It can also be to freeze. It van be to continue the set of motions already flying down the neurons.\n\nNo one knows how they will react until in that moment but all three of those are possible.\n\nJust as an example, there was a man in Oregon, if I remember correctly, who confronted an active shooter and thought he had stopped the threat even as the guy was still standing in front of him. Because he had trained to reholster after firing his brain went into that mode even as the threat was still litetally in front of him and he knew it was a bad move but he just couldn't stop the trained reaction.\n\nSame principle here. If, and this is a big if, the scene called for two shots and he had practiced two shots the brain has already sent the neural signal for those two shots before the eyes see and the brain processes the result of the first shot. That second shot is already in motion and there is no stopping it in that case.", "Two weeks later btw. That slug was in there for a full two weeks and nobody noticed which is insane negligence. Every time I touch a gun I break it and look down the chamber as a habit. How did nobody do that?", "They had new crew members because some had quit previously.", "Sounds like they don't know.\n\n> A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming. \n\nCould have been a true live round with powder and a slug, could have been debris or a slug in the chamber propelled by a blank. Seems like those who might know are talking to those doing the official investigation rather than the media.", "Thank you for this.\n\nI hope everyone working in film sees it.", "I'm 100% sure no movie goer ever have said \"this movie could have been better if just the gun recoil and muzzle flash was more accurate\"", "No, but he could've refused to work like the rest of the crew because of the safety issues if he was actually concerned. If he walks off the set, the movie doesn't get to continue being shot, and the original issues would have to be addressed.", "One of the best and most insightful comments on this thread.", "If you can’t responsibly use a firearm, you shouldn’t handle a firearm. Baldwin didn’t responsibly use a firearm and he killed someone as a result. Lesson learned.", "> The actors aren't supposed to be handling real weapons. They're supposed to be handling what are essentially toys. \n \nFalse. A firearm is not a toy, full stop. \n \nLoaded or unloaded, there are no exceptions. \n \nMost filming is done with real firearms for authenticity. If you are handling a real firearm, you alone are responsible for what you do with it. \n \n> Like...as an actor, you are told to take a real gun, point it at another person, and pull the trigger. \n \nThis is also not true. Industry standard protocol is that guns are never pointed at human beings. That is an illusion using angles or created in post.", "sig had unsafe pistols that would go off if dropped in a certain way, Taurus makes guns that can shoot if you just shake it.", "I don't think anyone will know until there's an autopsy completed or if they dug a slug out of the director. Initially everyone thought Brandon Lee was killed by a blank that took a piece of previously-fired shrapnel with it, until they dug an actual bullet out of his spine; the gun was used the previous day with a live round for a different shot and a real bullet was left in the barrel, so when the blank was fired it also launched the real slug at him.", "Propmaster. Sheesh this guy is just the guy who runs to get coffee haha", "Wow just saw this and had to check my Remington 700. Got it back in late 2006, but must have been manufactured pre-2006 as their website says my serial number is not effected. A bit worrying I didn't hear about this recall until I came across a random post on reddit... Thanks lol.", "Wasn't it Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow?", "That video is why you don't shoot what seemed to be someone elses reloads or old old ammo that the powder went weird.", ">Armorers need to be stubborn and by the book for a reason. \"I don't give a fuck if you are Steven Spielberg, my guns my rules.\"\n\nAnd I think this is where youth and inexperience can have deadly consequences. You're 24 and on your second job, and people the same age as your parents are pressuring you to do something off the books. I don't know if that's what happened here, but let's say the report is true that \"crew\" took the gun off set and used real bullets in it for target practice. Was this \"crew\" people who were in a position to fire the armorer?", "In the first reports on the walkout a lot of reasons are mentioned, but pay related seemed to be main reason (e.g. payment for hotels). In the retelling the security complaints are the only ones mentioned.", "Being a performer doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for gun safety. If you don’t accept the responsibility, don’t pick up a gun.", "Ok but at the end of the day, if Baldwin walks off the set with the rest of the crew, the film doesn't get to keep being filmed. Sure he wasn't responsible for making most of the staffing and financial decisions, but being the lead actor as well, he has a ton of leverage.", "Stick with airsoft kid", "This is so fucking stupid. SO stupid. I used to be so enamored by the film industry until I spent almost a decade in it and realized how many fucking goobers are running around who absolutely should not be on those sets. I can't believe this man continued to get work in the same position, holy shit.", "I mean people are suggesting live round could mean other things then actual bullets in this case. Would those other things have the force to go through somebody as well?", "With cgi the gun should not even have a hammer anymore, this should be the reality as well as full rubber bullet/casings for \"looks/effect\"\n\nAlso with how much money they invest in movies they can't make their own gun props with standards for movie recording?\n\nEdit: what is wrong with this thought? You think the technology we currently have cant fix or come up with a better alternative to live firing guns? Trust me they can still look and function the same just modified to NOT shoot ever, and anything can be replicated now, even old age on a gun.", "How do you avoid such a mishap in a movie like John Wick 3 with a lot of gun fight ? \nI would think a different set of protocols would be needed with that many guns in every scene.", "Thanks for your input, Einstein.", "The armorer was a newbie, and the AD was said to not really follow safety protocols, which is why a lot of crew left. Armorer obviously was scared to interfere with the actions of the AD. The AD will likely catch most of the blame here for the lack of safety. He called it \"cold\" and handed it to Alec. They were real pistols, and were used for target practice with real bullets, this should never be done.", "Debris can lodge itself into the barrel. Even the presence of a small rock or pebble in the barrel when a blank round is fired would be enough to kill someone at longer range. \n\nFrom what I've read, the armorer worked on one previous movie as the head armorer. On that movie, she handed a prop gun to the actress (who happens to be 11 but this is aside the point) after it had been on the ground next to some pebbles. She didn't check the gun. Staff on the production noticed this and stopped production because it was considered unsafe since a pebble or rock could have been in the barrel.", "Thank you so much for typing this out. Great insight into the industry and this situation.\n\nIn your opinion, do you think Alex Baldwin had any moral obligation to use what influence he did possess to oppose the hiring of non-union workers? I'm not familiar with the film industry, but after reading what I could find about this situation, my main reaction was that the production company was mostly culpable. However, as the lead actor, producer (even in name only), and vocal supporter of the IATSE strike, it seemed to me as an outsider that Baldwin had the ability to exert influence over the hiring and firing of workers. Even if that meant refusing to shoot until the situation was resolved. What do you think?", "That was well versed.", "I would say that most if not almost all gun accidents are negligent in this sort of context. However I think it is a strain to say all.\n\nFor example I can conceive of the following scenario: if you had a gun that needed it hammer pulled back before firing, and that hammers latching mechanism failed due to an invisible inherent flaw in it's metal that cause it to bend or warp weirdly after being placed under stress repeatedly, the gun could go off without negligence. \n\nObviously that is not a likely scenario, I honestly would be surprised if that happened at all. It is just an example about how there is always a limit to your knowledge and awareness, and sometimes things happen that you would not reasonably predict. This is why the standard for negligence uses the objective \"reasonable person\" measure. If it is not something that a reasonable, average, person would have noticed or known, then it is not negligent.\n\nThis is important because without this standard you could argue that every single accident ever was negligent. Not just with guns. With everything. All accidents are preventable if you do everything perfectly, but people are not perfect, and so the law has to take that into account lest it hold everyone liable for everything.", "Checked the gun how? Do you think you or Baldwin could tell the difference between live rounds and dummy rounds designed to look real for the camera?", "There was an incident with a different actor who shot a blank into his own head and died.", "Jesus, don't use a set gun for real fire. At that point you literally need to treat the gun as if it were loaded at all times.", "I don't own airsoft. Never been my thing. Stick with video games and weed kid, you probably seem more intelligent to that crowd.", "Can the armorer \"leave for the day\" if there are still guns on the set?", "This is even more insane", "Nope.", "On the contrary, i find a lack of recoil pretty jarring in shooters. For something like a nolan film, its not that critical, but i expect accurate firearm physics from john wick", "Not to mention it’s on the other side of his abdomen", "Omg if that’s true that’s just criminal , wow,", "Why waste taxpayer money? He has already basically been found guilty and had the death penalty enforced.", "I've shot shotgun slugs at the range and the wadding makes its own big hole in the paper. Depending on the powder in the cartridge, the wadding is a projectile.", "Why the fuck would there ever be REAL AMMUNITION on a film set? Is there speculation that there was foul play here?", "> parallelization\n\nWhat now?", "That’s quite a deflection. I’m not denying the string of severe fuckups BUT you do not need to be anything close to a firearms expert to know that no matter what you think or what anyone tells you, you ALWAYS treat a weapon as if it is loaded. \n\nThat is the only mistake that matters.", "Still weird that safety personnel would use a set gun as an Actual weapon at any time during filming(apparently the used it to shoot targets). Looks like everyone needs to get in trouble for this.", "🤦‍♀️🤫", "Then you are getting to the point that there are no accidents at all in the world, only negligence.", "Wadding. Wadding can put a hole in a paper target at close range", "It's not that simple. If he walked he'd be exposing himself legally. Remember that the film is financed on his participation. Every contract pre-approves him. If he walks before production -- that's fine. During production is a legal hurdle. He can leave -- but doing so would require his agents stepping in and a negotiation taking place. It's not just as simple as Alec Baldwin walking.\n\nAlso, from his perspective -- keep in mind that his presence is what financed that film. Everyone of those people working on that crew have jobs because of his presence. If he leaves -- everyone loses their jobs. \n\nI haven't worked with Alec, but the big actors I have worked with and the ones I know personally care most about the crew and see themselves as being able to use their celebrity to get productions going partly to employ these people.", "u/SaveVideo", "I think a lot of protocols came into place because of what happened on that movie.", "It’s pretty absurd.\n\nPeople act like the gun safety rules are to be absolutely 100% followed at every turn. I mostly agree, even.\n\nThe fact is, though, that when we clear a gun and understand it’s in a safe condition, we do things like dry fire exercises. You can look down the bore of a gun you’ve just cleared. These things technically break gun safety rules, yet are perfectly normal and established procedure.\n\nThere are (or should be, as we might see in this case…) gun experts on the set for a reason. They have the expertise to know when a gun can be safely used on set in various circumstances, and the actors should be relying on those people.\n\nIf Baldwin knew he was skirting safety procedures to get things done here, then he surely holds some level of blame. But if he was following his normal process and a failure up the chain put a loaded gun in his hand without his knowledge, I can’t bring myself to blame him much.", "Yeah dude that’s exactly what I was saying. Thanks again for yet another explanation that was not needed", "Is there such a thing as an accident that wasn't caused by negligence?", "No owning a firearm is not the same as trying to just live your life. Both are rights though and as such, I support them both. I like how you say people say weird shit that isn't true like \"guns don't kill people, people kill people\" and immediately follow it with \"people kill people with guns\". I think that is what those people are saying. I think their point is that we don't go around saying \"cars kill x amount of peopledaily!\", instead we say \"car accidents kill x amount of people daily.\" We shift more of the blame onto the inanimate object with guns than we do with other things. \n\nI am curious as to what accidents have not involved some form of negligence though. I could see there being more freak accidents with older/historical firearms.", "People die doing safe things all the time.\n\nIn the last 30 years, an infinitesimal percentage of film crew have been killed by a gun accident on set.\n\nThat’s like saying going to a park isn’t safe because 0.0000001% of park visitors die there.", "the police report said people were taking the guns off set after filming and using them for target practice with real ammo. and they found real bullets in the same storage area as the blank rounds--which first rule is no live rounds on set--period. \n\nThis was almost assuredly a real bullet--as nothing else could go through a human being and come out the other side and hit another person.", "That's what I'm thinking... the rumors of crew walking off because of poor treatment and safety violations comes to mind as well.", "Why is it necessary to point a gun and pull the trigger at the cinematographer? How does that help the movie get made?", "So was it a live round or a live blank?", "This isn't an accident, it's gross negligence by the director and their team. They broke all the protocols and should be held accountable and charged with misdemeanors.", "Firearm safety doesn’t apply to actors on film sets when there are other people responsible for it. Action movies would never get made if all the actors stopped and performed “firearm safety” every time guns were handed to them. Especially when they are sometimes dummy bullets they look real. How the fuck can so many people be so stupid…. Oh yeah, it’s the internet where tons of people are too dumb to realize how stupid they are. 🤦‍♀️", "Yep, just like how there are never any accidents with cars, only negligence.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nOh wait, that'd be really dumb to say, wouldn't it? Enjoy your rewards from those who believe their viewpoints unpopular and misunderstood, whilst people pointing out basic facts will get nothing similar, those feigning victims of misunderstanding never comprehending the irony.", "That's what the first sentence means, the is the keyword. He wasnt THE producer, he was a producer. And he's saying that calling him the producer isnt accurate", "This sounds like a job that shouldn’t been that difficult. Is gun loaded? Yes/no", "Yeah, morals are personal. I won't speak to what one person finds moral vs immoral in this situation. However, I have read that Baldwin and Souza the director did express displeasure (however much it was expressed I have no idea) about the hiring of scabs. \n\nI think where it gets very hard for me to cast blame without knowing the ins and outs of everything is -- this happened the VERY next day after the camera department walked. Baldwin could very well have still be exerting his influence to get the camera crew back and change the production hiccups. It's impossible to say because this massive negligence almost happened the moment the crew left.\n\nKeep in mind -- the head of the camera department, the DP and ultimately the person who lost her life, didn't walk. She stayed. There's a myriad of reasons why she would -- including not wanting to jeopardize her budding career -- but it also could be that production was still working on fixing the issues with camera department. \n\nThings don't move fast on a film production.", "Either they make changes or it happens again, those are the only two options here.", "> If you are handling a real firearm, you alone are responsible for what you do with it. \n\nWell I guess Alec Baldwin is guilty of murder, then. Manslaughter, I suppose.", "Reminds me of when I used to work with an \"entry level\" software engineer who was the CEO's child. The person had a writing or communications degree, not even a hobby interest in coding, and was probably 1 or 2 pre-requisite math courses shy of calculus.\n\nThis Hollywood set event's lack of qualification carried instantly recognizable consequences. In many others it goes further down the road. For that software company, in a year or two that CEO's child gets transitioned to manager and beyond, and then starts calling shots on decisions over actual engineers \"having been an engineer before.\" Cost savings + incompetence + authority is the common theme. [HealthCare.gov](https://HealthCare.gov) (the disaster when it first came out), and Boeing 737 max flaw are visible manifestations of it too.\n\nI don't expect the undercurrent to be fixed in the engineering scenarios - that's corporatism/capitalism in a nutshell. But it seems like this situation, at best, should have criminal liability if safety measures weren't followed. At worst, this is some Law and Order: Criminal Intent level stuff.", "The projectile went through one body and into another. I’d be surprised if that was caused by a blank sending something down the barrel.", "I guess that depends.\n\nOne issue is that [wadcutters can look very much like blanks.](http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/police-training-tragedy). Both are flat faced and on casual inspection to someone not familar with what they are looking at they could mistake one for the other.\n\nThat seems unlikely in this case. As the video mentions this was meant to be an upclose shot where the rounds would be visible in the cylinder so they would need to look like [a real round](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt) (pic is a .45 long colt which was common pistol cartridge for the time period of the film). There is no mistaking a wadcutter for a .45 LC.\n\nBack to your point though, the material used in a blank (called a wad) can be anything from wax to carboard to plastic. I can't see wax or cardboard causing a through-and-through wound. Plastic, maybe but not likely. The wad is there to keep the powder in the casing and minimize the risk.", "I’m 100% certain you would find many, many moviegoers who would say “that doesn’t look right” if actors are faking recoil.", "I have a friend who worked with her. She’s not to blame at all. It’s the 1st AD’s fault. Basically everything the guy just say in the video.", "Desktop version of /u/pyratemime's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "So that the bones can get locked up, is why!", "because you need to show the casing eject, the flame/smoke. Only way to do that is use a real gun with blank rounds. Otherwise its obvious you're using a dummy gun.", "and someone familiar with the situation says that the armorer was feeling out of her league, this being only her second job. The AD was known to be bossy and not adhere to safety protocols, so she probably didnt have much say to stop him from picking up the gun and handing it to Alec.", "The AD was the one that was reported for safety issues, not the new armorer.", "... why were they being used for target practice???", "> He didn’t practice firearm safety\n\nHE ISN’T SUPPOSED TO ON A MOVIE SET, ALL CAPITALS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN TOOD THIS MULTIPLE TIMES AND KEEP IGNORING IT. IS IT BECAUSE YOU ARR MENTALLY DEFICIENT?", "It may not be his job, but it takes 2 seconds to see if there’s something loaded in the fire arm. It’s basic safety. If he just looked maybe a life wouldn’t have been lost.", "The NHTSA and other organizations have been telling people to stop using the word \"accident\" in relation to car crashes for years:\n\nhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-01/why-we-should-stop-using-car-accident-and-start-using-car-crash-instead", "That is probably true, but my own issue is that he was one of the producers AND he was \"boots-on-the-ground\" and actually present on the set. In other words, if he saw that safety protocols weren't being followed, he was obligated to raise the issue and get the production halted until things were fixed. \n\nI'm certainly not saying that if he were a producer and at his NYC home the entire shoot that he has that level of responsibility, but if he is actually THERE and is aware of the issues, he can't ignore them if he's a producer and his production company is involved.", "The chatter I've heard is someone was taking the opportunity to play with some vintage guns and did some target shooting off set, and somehow either left a box of live ammo with the gun or left it loaded at the time.\n\nThis is just hearsay on my part, though, speaking to friends back in LA who work the studio system.", "Okay, that still sounds really dumb. Are they filming a movie or are they operating a shooting range? Doesn't seem like there's any good reason to shave any live ammo around.", "I suspect that cost-cutting corners were in effect, resulting in low quality oversight.", "So you have to have qualification to see if a weapon is loaded? What’s the qualification? Having eyes?", "It was the armorer's responsibility to make sure the gun Baldwin got was safe. The AD seemingly went behind the armorer's back and grabbed a random gun, so technically, it's the AD's fault. At no point is it Baldwin's fault. Gun nuts are so desperate to get some political points it's so fucking funny. Like npcs without souls, or perhaps even more accurately, like a primitive peoples you all say the same shit all trying to secretly imply that Baldwin is responsible because he didn't follow the superstitious legends that you all follow", "Would a less wealthy producer have any more or less culpability/responsibility? Yes/no that’s the point homie", "Been a proud member of various IATSE locals since 1977; expecting my 45 year pin next autumn. \n\nEntertainment unions don't have many responsibilities under the terms of a collective agreement; most of them read \"the Producer will do this\" and \"the Producer will do that\". However, one of the key responsibilities the union does have is to provide qualified personnel to any production it services.\n\nOf course, many non-union film workers are also \"qualified\" (meaning both technically competent and experienced in their craft), and I must admit that I have sometimes worked with union brothers and sisters I wouldn't trust to blow their own nose without eyes-on supervision from their Head of Department. \n\nSo while my own personal opinion is that hiring an experienced union crew, and having them work under a collective agreement definitely improves a production's odds of completing the call sheet without the PM having to fill out a Workers' Comp report at wrap, in this particular case I wouldn't really care to speculate on any difference in experience, knowledge or competence between the departed crew and their replacements, or on the comparative willingness of each to bow to perhaps inappropriate production pressures regarding safety protocols. \n\nEventually, the Sheriff's Office will release a report, or there will be an inquest, and that's when much will be made clear.", "As someone not familiar with the industry at all, this was my knee jerk reaction to this. There's been so much hand wringing over Baldwin's victimhood in this situation, and it is a tragedy and a traumatic event he's gone through. But he had the most industry clout of anyone on that set, he was a producer (to what extent beyond an empty title I can't determine), and he's claimed to support the IATSE union. It seems to me that he had both the ability and obligation to try and improve the working conditions on the set.", "Someone unqualified getting a job in Hollywood just because of their parents? That's unheard of!", ">I do agree that the article pushes that narrative more than actually finding fault with the individuals directly responsible for the gun being live.\n\nThe issue is that if you focus on the people directly responsible, you absolve the system of responsibility to correct itself.\n\nHere's a crash [caused by pilot fatigue](https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/at-the-edge-of-endurance-the-crash-of-american-international-airways-flight-808-62ade22f26d3).\n\nThe pilots were negligent. They fucked up. It cost them their lives. \n\nIt was also virtually guaranteed to happen to someone. And [continue to happen.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_fatigue#:~:text=Fatigue%20is%20particularly%20prevalent%20among,time%2Don%20task'%20fatigue.)\n\nIf you blame pilots for their actions while tired, your not interested in fixing a problem or addressing safety. You're interested in hiring stooges who will take the blame for you. \n\nThis amorer was working on her second project. She was clearly not competent. Other armorers had already refused to work the show for the compensation and amount of guns they expected.\n\nThen they treated the crew to the standard \"long\" days (so realistically minimum 14 hour days) with 50+ mile drives in rush hour traffic after refusing to pay for a closer location. \n\nIt's astounding how few people get shot on film sets. With a [Swiss cheese model](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model) the safety lapses are big enough for several mice to climb through.\n\nProducers will be \"sad\", say \"we did everything we thought was necessary\", blame the AD, blame the green armorer, and absolve themselves of any culpability.", "Not to be pedantic, but you need to treat every gun as loaded. But your point stands, there are reports of lax gun safety, plus mix in the grey area of live fire target shooting by other parties adds a huge margin for error.", "The AD seems to be known as a a real asshole apparently.", "Always", "Pretty sure you don't need to be a professional to know that bringing a loaded firearm with real ammo onto the set of what went wrong", "and it would have been loaded, with what he would naturally expect to be a blank, which, according to accounts, it fucking wasn't. So now what? What's your next victim blaming bullshit argument going to be.?", "Was it like a Crow situation where a previous dummy round with a live striking pin wedged a slug in the barrel and them the blast of a blank behind it shot it out?", "Oh, his career is over. I promise ya.", "A blank isn’t a projectile but it is ammunition because it detonates.", "Prop masters are also idiots when it comes to firearms and every single set with any form of a firearm as they flag people left and right all the time.\n\nAntigun idiots don't even know the forearm safety rules.", "It was probably written by AI. It's becoming a lot more common, especially with news sites like the reputable 711web. /s", "Media outlets are notoriously fucking horrible with details outside of the basics.\n\nI’ve seen this many times dealing with fatalities in skydiving. Every parachute malfunction is unique and a combination of several factors leading up to a total malfunction resulting in death.\n\nYou explain all of this to a journalist and they write down “chute didn’t open.”\n\nThat’s just fucking stupid.", "Not dead, just short, which arguably is a worse fate.", "I still don't understand why a bullet was in the casing to begin with. Was it just so the revolver looked as if it was actually loaded with live rounds?", "I think in spite of us wanting to think better of the situation, that was really the only thing that could have happened.\n\nQuestion is, why?", "Good explanation. bravo.", "If the armorer wasn't on set, why were they recording a scene with a weapon. If true, the safety concerns brought up are 100% valid.", " If you watch with the aid of slo-mo playback, you'll see most of the big firearm scenes (and damn, they were impressive, weren't they?) were carefully broken up into many discrete, extremely brief shots lasting only a second or two, with only two or three performers in the frame, firing just a couple of shots at a time. \n\n\nBy carefully storyboarding long and complex sequences to be shot in this tightly controlled way, the director, armourer, fight co-ordinator and stunt co-ordinator can jointly plan and shoot even very complex firearms scenes safely, but in a visually impressive way that gives the editor lots of leeway. Director Chad Stahelski comes from a long background as an action-film second unit director, stunt coordinator, fight coordinator and stuntman, so he knows better than most exactly how to break complex action scenes up into short, manageable bits that can still be made to flow by a good editor (in this case, Evan Schiff).\n\nI've never worked with Mr. Reeves, but colleagues who have tell me his knowledge of firearms and his dedication to crew and performer safety is both impressive and extraordinary among A-List performers. Ruby Rose, who I have worked with, agrees.", "What amazes me is they can make an entire movie in cgi that is indistinguishable from real life but they can't cgi a gun firing a bullet?!", "I've got the \"live round\" definition as anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger. \n\nBut then is there a word to distinguish between a live blank round and a live round containing a bullet? Other than, you know, saying \"live round containing a bullet\"?", "You know what would ALWAYS work and save people's lives? Not having any guns. You're drawing the absolute weirdest line in the sand.", "Yes, exactly. This green young armorer did not stand up to the AD and enforce protocols.", "Well get the official story soon enough, but I’ve been staying with my cousin who’s a stunt worker and knows one of the top armorers in LA. From what she’s heard as it unfolds is it was complete negligence from multiple parties. 3 people were suppose to check the gun and none of them did properly. This combined with allowing the guns to be taken off set and used for target practice resulted in a real bullet being left in a prop gun, which subsequently wasn’t checked properly and then handed to Baldwin who was told it “was cold” when in fact it very much was not.", "Not this time, they were target shooting with LIVE rounds. Cops found them along with blanks in the same area.", "Their industry jargon needs to be overhauled. Specific terms should never be used to refer to broad categories especially when they go against how the terms are used in common language. \"Live round\" should mean only one thing. \"Prop gun\" should mean only one thing. Maybe it's my bias but I'm guessing they've kept their jargon confusing as fuck in order to have their special \"in group\". Hope it was worth the life they just took.", "Drivers are negligent when they crash into a tree falling in front of or on them.\n\nDrivers are negligent when a deer jumps in front of them. \n\nDrivers are negligent when they have a seizure or heart attack for the first time. \n\nDrivers are negligent when someone else has a heart attack. \n\nDrivers are negligent when their cars are struck by lightning.\n\nDrivers are negligent when something in their car fails in some way since it is negligent to not inspect every part of a car constantly.\n\nDrivers are negligent when they are hit by an avalanche.\n\nDrivers are negligent when a meteorite falls on them. \n\nDrivers but them are negligent when everyone but them gets raptured.\n\nDrivers are negligent when Cthulhu invades. \n\netc.", "yes, BUT, live rounds look identical to dummy rounds.", "If an actor is sitting in a towed car for a scene, turns the wheel as directed, and the car lurches off the tow rig and kills someone, it's not the actor's fault. Same with guns on a set. Sets are a professional setting where everyone has very specific roles and responsibilities with no expectations of responsibility overlap outside each individual's professional expertise.", "Specifically, imdb lists 12 producers for the film. 5 of which are executive producers, which Alec Baldwin is not.", "Thanks! \nThat movie was mesmerizing. \nAny other movies with gun fighting that you can recommend that impressed you as an industry insider ?", "Yes. The gas would went from the cylinder gap. I saw a Colt police positive with 4 bullets lodged in the barrel.\n\nEdit: not my picture but another case of it happing https://www.reddit.com/r/ThingsCutInHalfPorn/comments/3t8y0h/8_bullets_stuck_in_the_barrel_of_a_357_1024x345/", "Ah thanks for that, i was wondering what the hell was going on with his irises....", "Yes. It’s for close up shots looking down the barrel from the front. Just like he described in the video.", "Seems like everyone is assuming the injury to the second person was a penetrating slug… seems much more likely it was shrapnel from the camera being destroyed, if they were shooting directly into the lens.", "If I'm handed a gun and told hey shoot this at someone for this movie.... I'm checking the ammo and gun out for myself before I do that.\n\nLooks like I'm right. Anyone who is going to handle a firearm should know basics. One of the basics is to never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy.\n\nHollywood hates firearms but loves to treat them like toys", "That's correct. In a revolver you can see the bullet in the gun. From what I've read online (could definitely be wrong) a real bullet was used and the crew removed the powder from the bullet and reassembled it for the camera shot. \n\nThis left the primer in the case. \n\nWhen it fired, there was enough gas pressure to push the bullet into the barrel of the gun but not all the way out the end. Nobody examined the barrel to catch the obstruction between scenes and the blank had more than enough powder charge to push the bullet the rest of the way out of the gun barrel and kill someone.", "They all are", ">TOOD\n\n>ARR\n\nYeah, I’m definitely the mentally deficient one here lol", "The fuck you getting these timelines from? \n\nIn US of A. \nBasic training is 9 weeks. \nBasic marksmanship course is 2 days, on 3rd day you qualify. \nFirearms safety briefing is 1 hour tops. The rules themselves can be recited fully within a minute.", "It doesn't have to be solely Alec Baldwin's fault - the accident came about because of behavior by multiple people. He was just the last necessary level of incompetence, where 4 or 5 prior levels of incompetence allowed his incompetence to matter. I do agree that those other folks (armorer, prop folks, etc) bear more responsibility.\n\nHe doesn't have to be a gun expert to open it up and see that there's no ammunition, that the barrel is clear, etc. And you don't need to be a gun expert to learn basic safety rules, like don't point the gun at things you're not willing to destroy, to never assume that a gun is unloaded just because someone told you it is. These are just the basic rules of gun safety, that everyone who's going to be around weapons (or really, everyone in general) should be absolutely aware of.", "Jesus what the fuck", "Oh no doubt, 1st AD is definitely at fault here. Just saying it sounds like a mess all around. Can only hope that this never gets repeated.", ">how the fuck can so many people be so stupid\n\nI know right? It takes 1 second to check if a handgun is loaded. Pretty stupid not to do that when aiming it at multiple people.", "Everyone there could have made the set safer. Doesn't make them all murderers.", "> Long story short — Baldwin is simply using the clout of his name to get a movie made. And he plays a part in the mechanism of getting a film financed. But he is not “the producer” and his company isn’t “the production company”. He is what we call a producer in “name only”. He gets the credit and his company gets the credit — so that the film can get made by other people.\n\nThis was the problem I had with a lot of twitter personalities immediately casting blame like it was cut and dry. I don't know anything about the movie industry, how it's run, and neither do most of the people jumping to conclusions. This isn't a surprise.", "They’re usually marked, dummy", "I found and read Safety Bulletin #1 titled RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF \"BLANK AMMUNITION\" from the Recommended by Industry-Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee for the Motion Picture and Television Industry — I understand it's supposed to be the bible for firearm safety on sets.\n\nThis bulletin uses the terms \"blank ammunition\" and \"live ammunition.\" In reference to live ammunition, it states unequivocally \"LIVE AMMUNITION\" IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO LOT OR STAGE.\" then it goes on to detail safety protocols for guns using blank ammunition.\n\nI find this a more practical and useful approach than using \"live round\" to mean both blank ammunition (which IS used on set) as well as real ammunition with bullets (which is never to be used on set). Using the same term for ammo used on set and ammo that's never to be used on set seems to me to be ripe for confusion. As we've been seeing in all the discussions about this shooting.\n\nSource: https://www.csatf.org/production-affairs-safety/safety-bulletins/", "What?! That sounds crazy", "Fuckin hell", "Is one of the producers for this. There's seven production companies attached to this picture.", "Didnt say they were murderers did I? They are all responsible for this, yes.", "Oops I meant 10 weeks", "Again you called it wrong. \nIts not an \"accidental\" discharge. There is no such thing and yes, it does negate your whole argument since you clearly cant even form a cohesive argument without putting in incorrect words.", "Fantastic explanation.", "You text is like 5 times too long for the average Reddit user /s", "Could be they're not supposed to but this armorer did anyway. People are always doing things they're not supposed to.", "But what corner do you cut that leads to your guns being used for target practice? Were they timesharing these guns with someone else unconnected to the movie??", "Bullshit. You can kill people with the gasses alone with no metal fragments. There have been instances of a dude wanting to prank someone, putting a gun to someones head, shooting a blank and killing them.", "How is it we don’t know who put a real live bullet in a gun and just set it on a table. Is there any way a bullet can be confused for a blank? I don’t understand any of this.", "Same! They came to my school.", "Professional prop master here.\n\nI was in charge of the toy guns in the movie me and my friends made at age 11. I allways made sure no nerf dart got fired accidentally", "My confusion surrounds how a blank would go THROUGH a person and injure the person behind. That makes no sense to my brain.\n\nIn this case live round might actually mean an actual bullet.", "Hahaha. No failure of the shooter. \nThe gun just straight up decided to orient itself in a position that points to a human and the gun pulled its own trigger. \nPack it up boys, this guy cracked the case. \nWhat a joker.", "https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qelj37/professional_propmaster_talks_firearm_protocol/hhvlwzz/", "Exactly. A weapon is a weapon, even if its use is as a toy or a prop.", "So a blank can launch a projectile with that much velocity if they made dummy rounds incorrectly. \n\nIf they made a dummy by removing the powder but not the primer, that can cause what is called a squib, where the bullet leaves the chamber but not the barrel. When you then load a blank behind that squib, it has the force to propel the stuck bullet with plenty enough velocity to kill someone. \n\nIf that was the case here, the armorer screwed up big time when they made the \"dummy\" rounds. This is a possibility especially considering guns had accidental discharges earlier in filming. One of those incidents could have been an undiagnosed squib.", "Interesting history lesson. In the alcohol and misogyny fueled days of early Hollywood they would actually have live firearms on set. The first squib charges to simulate bullet impacts on walls and other surfaces wasn’t used in films until the mid 50s. So all the gangster films before that employed trained marksman to shoot live rounds at the actors. If you look closely at those scenes today you can see clever cuts where actors are filmed and then cut as they leave frame and the shots are fired with the set clear and then the actors return after a second cut. I mean this was the same era that was using asbestos snow on the set of The Wizard of Oz because the fire marshal thought it was safer than the cotton they had originally planned to use. lol", "I missed invisible the first read and thought it was serious lol.", "so, if I pay an \"expert\" to \"give me a gun that has no live ammo in it\" and then I take the gun from them and shoot someone with it, who goes to jail?", "Heat (Pacino, de Niro et al) was pretty damn good. The post-robbery downtown firefight was impressive. I'm pretty sure they used full military blanks to get the sound right.", "From other reports, we are starting to see a full picture of what happened. \n\nFor clarity of my understanding, a \"cold gun\" has rounds that do not contain any gun powder. So they are either completely empty or they are not real guns. A \"live gun\" would be one that has ammo containing gun powder, which could be blanks. Which do have gun powder but no projectile, still making them dangerous. \n\nIt sounds like the AD saw two types of revolvers. One he could see that the ammo contained no projectiles in the cylinder (blanks) and one he could see the projectile (dummy rounds). So it seems like the AD picked up a gun from the cart and saw projectiles and assumed it was full of dummy rounds. Without actually checking to see if they were dummy rounds as this man just explained how to do. He handed the gun to Alec, announced it as a \"cold gun\", and Alec then was directed to point the weapon at the camera and pull the trigger. Makes sense that they would use dummy rounds in this instance, as the man said the shot would need to see the projectiles in the cylinders. Alec then did as instructed.\n\nNow we are hearing that they were using actual ammo off set for shooting practice. So it's safe to assume that the weapon the AD picked up had actual live ammo in it. So at some point guns were mixed up or the AD just grabbed the first gun he saw with projectiles and didn't bother to check to make sure they were dummy rounds, instead assuming they were dummies and brought the gun on set. \n\nIf this is the case, then it seems that there should be charges brought against both the AD and the armorer/prop master, for negligence. \n\nIn an earlier post I made I said Alec is free from any liability, but it was quickly pointed out that he was a producer on the movie and it was his production company in charge of the movie. So it's very possible charges could be brought against him and his production company. But I would suspect he won't face charges but he will be subject to civil suits. I still feel that he is not responsible for being the person who fired the weapon. Because he was following direction from people who were in charge of safety. But since it's his production, he is responsible for making sure all protocols were followed. \n\nAs many have said already, this reminds me so much of Brandon Lee. As in his case many protocols were also not followed. It's a tragedy all around, but a preventable tragedy. \n\nSince we are also hearing of accidents on the set before this and many people walking off set due to safety precautions not being followed and prior accidents not being investigated. I imagine there will be charges brought and civil suits. \n\nIt's 2021, there really is no need to have any sort of live ammo on set. They have or can make fake guns that have the same action as their real counterparts, with CGI being used for the flash.\n\nThe Walking Dead is a great example of this as there were many shots, especially in early seasons, where you could clearly see the guns weren't real as they had no action. Revolvers not spinning, slides not moving. The flashes were added in post. Just make fake guns with physical action and add the flashes in post.", "gun safety is ONLY for the plebs. the 1% don't have time for that shit with all the \"you are not allowed to own guns\" preaching that they do", "Wouldn't care to speculate.", "The expert should.", "All are facts from what we know.", "> If he leaves -- everyone loses their jobs.\n\nPeople who walk out are already risking their jobs and careers. All of that is a fancy way of saying money matters more than safety.", "For some people, that would equate to 600 hours of experience on set. For others, it would represent 1 hour of experience, 600 times.", "> Yup. The same guy who was the First Assistant Director on the Second Unit that was running behind schedule when it was decided to make dummy cartridges from real ones to save time, which ultimately led to Brandon Lee's death.\n\nThat's not quite accurate. He was the first asst director on the Crow: Salvation. That was the third movie in the Crow series and made well after Brandon's death. He was not on the staff of the original at all.", "> 24 year old, inexperienced armourer, who happens to be the daughter of someone well respected in the industry\n\nwhat is her family name again?", "Similar - when I was a kid we smacked nail gun blanks with a hammer out in the woods. We got into so much trouble for that.... Can't believe nobody got hurt.", "gun safety is for the plebs. Baldwin is too busy telling you that you don't have a right to own a gun", "Anyone else an uptick in clairvoyance?", ">Maybe the rules will change so absolutely everyone down the line, including the actor holding the weapon, is expected to be able to fully check if the weapon is properly loaded before shooting (both meanings) starts.\n\nSounds impossible to me. How would you be able to tell the difference between a dummy round (round with bullet and no gunpowder) and a live round (standard unmodified round) without having been at the assembly point and watch them load it into the gun?\n\nI don't see the rules changing since this has already done a very good job of protecting people these last 28 years since Brandon Lee's death.\n\nThe only thing that needs to change is the regulations on overworking. The majority of the crew who walked off cited poor working conditions and that the production was in a mode of \"rush, rush, rush.\" \n\nLack of rules didn't kill anyone here. It was the decision to cut corners and not follow the rules that resulted in death. Speed kills in hazardous working conditions.", "Your analogy doesn't fit. The towed car would have to fully functional and running while being towed, someone else would have to put the vehicle in drive, and then the actor would have to aim the vehicle at another person and hit the gas pedal. Firearm safety is critically important and anyone handling a firearm is responsible for understanding and following the safety procedures. From the video, the prop master said the procedures were not followed. Every person that touched the gun was a missed opportunity to realize a dangerous situation was coming. Any one of them could have stopped the incident from happening.", "High quality puns", "No, but that does make him more responsible for what sound like unsafe working conditions.", "ok he is not the producer. he did not pull the trigger. it was not his job to get a gun safety course before handing a gun. he is way too busy telling the plebs they are not allowed to own guns", "> I keep seeing people saying Alec Baldwin was the “producer” and that his company was the “production company.” I even see people saying he was the “lead” or “head”. This is inaccurate and needs context because it’s way, way more complicated in filmmaking.\n\nGood luck getting people to read. Half of the people talking about this in reddit want to hate Baldwin because he's a rich liberal known for being outspoken and a bit of an asshole, and the other half want to hate him because he's anti-gun. So they're going out of their way to paint him as the responsible party.", "You're getting into a battle of pedantry over whether or not an accident with a firearm is considered an accident. \n\nOf fucking course when someone shoots a firearm by mistake, its an accident. It was an error that the person did not intend to do. \n\nHowever, there is a saying (some view it as a code that you live by), that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. \n\nAny fuck up that happens is due to someone not following the rules of gun safety. Period. It's not because of an oopsie.\n\nThe law supports this because you will get charged with negligence if you \"accidently\" shoot your wall while cleaning your gun.", "Besides what everyone is saying an actor is explicitly not allowed to do that due to safety rules, it is the job of the armorer. You have literally 0 clue how a film set works.", "What I don't genuinely understand is why a movie set ever needs real guns. You can do amazing things with practical effects. And CG? We can literally bring people back from the dead. You want to tell me we can't make a fake gun that looks enough like the real thing to fool audiences, and add in sfx to make the gunfire look real too?\n\nThe easiest way to prevent a gun from accidentally killing someone on a movie set is don't have a gun on the movie set. Seems simple", "I’m sittin here all like “Bobby Lee got shot?!? didn’t I just see him and Santino this week on their Bad Friends podcast?!?”", ">Answer the question: if Baldwin checked the gun to make sure it was safe for handling, the thing he’s publicly and passionately spoken out against, would he have shot and killed someone?\n\nI'll answer your question: No. If Baldwin had followed any* of the rules for gun safety, Ms. Hutchins would be alive today. People seem to think that because he's an actor he's exempt from those rules. But guns aren't exempt from the laws of physics just because they're being held by an actor on a movie set, so actors holding guns should not be exempt from following the rules for gun safety.", "You are making excuses. Hunting and alcohol are bad to have together. Regardless the previous poster said it was conjecture but Cheney admitted to drinking. It is on the record.", "Given all the complaints over working conditions that crew members were reportedly making, a little part of me thinks that someone thought that they’d engineer a situation that was intended to create a “holy shit, we need to tighten up our standards” moment. If a gun was supposed to be shot into the sky or some other relatively less dangerous place that had a live round instead of a blank, that could be the crystallizing factor that proves the crew’s point. What wasn’t accounted for was the scene they were filming when the shot was fired. \n\nThis is just a theory, but I think it makes sense. If it turns out that something like this did happen, there’s a shitstorm on the horizon for whoever was involved in this potentially ill-conceived attempt at drawing attention to working conditions.", "Brandon Lee is the other guy we were discussing, the one shot through the abdomen.", "Read the rest of the comment section. Many folks here don't care what an expert has to say, to the many people on here, it's all Alec's fault, end of story.", "Anyone else wondering why a postmaster is telling us this? \n\n😂", "I think it’s kind of a Hollywood lingo", "Watch the video, tough guy. Movie set gun safety is just as stringent as shooting range safety, or people die. You weren't there either, yet somehow you must know more about the situation than the prop master with decades of experience. This incident didn't have to happen, but that must be me \"spouting off (my) gun range logic\". Then again, I didn't shoot the lady.", "They need to disclose exactly what type of round was in there. Until then, all we can do is speculate.", "There's been a lot of comments and I have no idea how much is accurate. One thing I have heard more than once though, is that cart was specifically supposed to be only for \"safe\" prop guns that had not been loaded with rounds.\n\nBut really the entire thing is a mess. the armorer seems to have been negligent sitting it down unattended. The AD negligent for grabbing it and handing it off without clearing it. Or having someone that knows what they are doing check it first. Baldwin is a little complicit for not checking it himself, but knowing his stance on firearms I wonder if he'd even know how to tell the gun was loaded.\n\nThe cameraman and director? Unclear. From the versions I've heard the cameras weren't rolling. There was some discussion about how a shot was going to be filmed and Baldwin was pointing the weapon while the other crew made sure he was lined up right, and it went off.", "I know what went wrong, someone got shot !\nBut I’m just a certified home owner.", "He was told it was a \"cold gun,\" meaning it was allegedly not loaded with anything. If he had taken 2 seconds to look, he would have seen that it was loaded with something. Even if he didn't know what that something was, he would have known something was very wrong.", "Yes it didn’t have to happen but your bullshit spouting about never putting a gun at someone is not at all helpful whatsoever.", "Or more importantly, they act. IE make things up. with fake props.", "In the gun worlds it’s entirely unacceptable to not take personal responsibility for the state of a gun you’re holding. That’s literally how basic firearms safety works. If a buddy is standing in front of me showing me his new firearm. He may demonstrate to me that it’s unloaded and handed to me. The very first thing I do is check and clear the firearm myself visually and with my finger. That’s not even considered excessive in the firearms world, it’s literally standard practice.\n\nAnd that’s just in order to look at the firearm, with no intention of pulling the trigger, and always keeping it pointed in a safe direction.\n\nIts a 1,000,000 times more serious if someone hands me a gun they claim is unloaded, and expects me to point it at someone else and pull the trigger. that’s not even the same planet as the scenario with my buddy, but somehow I’m expected to not personally check the gun myself? Makes zero sense. \n\n\nIf you’re going to point a supposedly unloaded weapon at another human and pull the trigger, you have a moral obligation to verify the weapon yourself.", "And one of my ammo-sexual friends still says Alec is partly at fault for not checking the gun some how.", "Not disagreeing with what you’re saying at all, but it’s strange to me that the performers, the ones who are going to have their life altered if an accident occurs, don’t get training for their own sake. I’d want to do my own check just to be sure.\n\n But I’m also not involved with film in any way do I may be talking out of my ass. Still, 4 hours to get basic skills seems a worthy investment.", ">They had non-union people.\n\n\n\"Union\" has nothing to do with the professionalism or quality of work.", "Well I debated even chiming in with this because I knew what OP was saying in essence but I'm glad I did now.\n\nBetter safe than sorry, I'd still get your gun checked", "No, a towed vehicle can still roll from momentum if it comes off the tow rig. Nothing else required but potential energy on wheels and a faulty tow rig that is the stunt coordinator's responsibility and not the actor's.\n\nFirearms are no different from the many very dangerous things used in film making when it comes to the expectations on the cast and crew who are not the hired professionals for each represented profession on set.", "Source? Because so far I haven't seen any \"media\" define what a live round is", "I think people forget he‘s the producer not just the actor. So doesn’t he have some responsibility in this?", "What angle is Colin Farrell using in this scene to make it seem like the gun that is literately touching his temple isn’t actually pointed at a person? \n\nhttps://stayhipp.com/internet/memes/in-bruges-memes-show-guns-pointed-from-multiple-angles/\n\nThere’s hundreds, thousands of scenes where a gun has been pointed at any other actor, it’s not just magic angles.", "They consider them both equally dangerous so they are both called “live rounds”. When the responsible party declares the gun “cold” instead of “hot” it means there should be zero bang whatsoever and the actor can rehearse and act out scenes involving trigger pulls while pointing the gun in whatever direction the director says without endangering anyone.\n\nBut yes, I wish there was a better way to distinguish between a “live round” blank and a “live round” with a bullet. \n\nThe main issue I see however is that the gun was declared “cold” when in fact it was not.", "Is this coming from your own belief system?\n\nBecause it has already been said that you need 600 hours of experience to be iatse armorer on a movie set. \n\nIf this is your own view of unions, feel free to kindly fuck off", "Some shows do use special effects. Mare of Easttown apparently CGI'd all of their gunfire.\n\nThis is pretty new, though. Believe it or not, much of Hollywood is old people who refuse to change. For decades, CGI wasn't an option and the people who knew how to do gun stunts used real guns or replicas. That said, these are usually incredibly safe stunts because so many safety procedures are supposed to be in place.\n\nThis article explains the process really well:\n\n[https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797](https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797)\n\nAlmost every single person on the set of Rust who was involved in this tragedy was negligent in their duty to ensure a safe weapon and set. From the prop master and armorer who weren't even present, to the AD who picked up a gun, didn't check it, and declared it clear, to the actor, who just trusted the AD without verifying it, to the camera crew who didn't use bulletproof shielding even when they knew the gun would be aimed at the camera, to the director who had absolutely no reason whatsoever to be in the line of fire. There were at least 5 different people any one of whom could have said \"this isn't safe\" and not one of them did.\n\nAnd of course there's the fact that the union crew walked off the set because of safety concerns and then 6 hours later the DP was dead. Shameful that the producers didn't take the crew seriously.", "Dude, no. He won't \"skate\" because of privilege, he will skate because he was told the gun was safe. He will skate because it wasn't his job to tell other people to get out of the way. He's an ACTOR- one who acts according to direction. But, otherwise, sure .. stay angry and opinionated if that works for you.", "SPAS 12's would fire when switched to safe https://www.spas-12.com/spas12safetywarning#:~:text=Your%20SPAS%2012%20is%20a,respect%20as%20any%20other%20firearm.&text=The%20only%20part%20that%20causes,would%20enable%20it%20to%20fire. in action https://youtu.be/LlaOlqBC-yA?t=66", "Lmao love this", "https://youtu.be/LlaOlqBC-yA?t=66", "Consider scenes where guns are exchanged and picked up by different people. Then they have to fire in the same cut. \n\nOr something like Matrix elevator scene where neo goes through like 20 different guns.\n\nYou can't keep track of all of them. You literally don't have time to check if the gun you have is empty or not if you're supposed to snatch it from someone and point it at them. (Rushhour scene where Jackie Chan and the LA cop teach each other how to snatch guns? )\n\nA lot of things go through an actor's mind while there shooting. If you keep them responsible for shooting, they'll have to keep that at first priority in their mind and they'll slip up on other aspects.", "If you hand a loaded gun to a 7 year old and tell him it's a squirt gun and he kills somebody then who should go to jail?\n\nThey hire experts so that the actors can focus on acting. A ton of shots break the golden rules of gun handling. That's why the experts are there.", "Consider scenes where guns are exchanged and picked up by different people. Then they have to fire in the same cut. \n\nOr something like Matrix elevator scene where neo goes through like 20 different guns.\n\nYou can't keep track of all of them. You literally don't have time to check if the gun you have is empty or not if you're supposed to snatch it from someone and point it at them. (Rushhour scene where Jackie Chan and the LA cop teach each other how to snatch guns? )\n\nA lot of things go through an actor's mind while they're shooting a scene. If you keep them responsible for shooting, they'll have to keep that at first priority in their mind and they'll slip up on other aspects.", "That is exactly what I meant. Thanks for your explanation.", "chido video", "Serious question. How do you treat a gun as if it's loaded if the goal is to point it at somebody and fire?", "Producers handle editing more so than stunts or scene choreography", "Live=powder and primer. Goes \"bang.\"\n\nBoth ball ammo and blanks are live.", "It was a real bullet, blanks use wads and do not penetrate, they just don't have energy. The one guy that died from a blank held it yo his head and the explosion pressure and wad fractured his skull. Lots of uninformed opinions from people who clearly haven't used guns before. Nobody on set knew jack about guns", "The thing I keep repeating to these people is, \"How is the actor supposed to know?\"\n\nIs it a dummy round? Has the powder been removed? The primer? How do you know these things unless you watched the round get assembled yourself?\n\nAnd are they supposed to check that the barrel is clear every single time? Does someone who use guns recreationally even do these things? They check that the chamber is empty, but they don't clear the barrel every time they put the gun down. They also don't go to gun stores and buy rounds and check that every round has powder and primer in it. It's unrealistic, it's nonsense.\n\nThe safest way to do this is to have a safety choke point: everything goes through the armorer. A person who's sole responsibility on set is to ensure gun safety. Putting it on everyone present doesn't create more failsafes, it actually just makes people more likely to shirk responsibility and expecting the last person in line to take care of it.", "No way!! I did not know that. TIL", "I question the “Inexperienced” assessment here. Many people who grow up in gun families handle guns from a young age, and in a family with an armorer as one of the parents, safety would have been hammered home. \n\nYes, she was on that podcast talking about her nerves in her first gig, and people are blasting her for that. But how many people WEREN’T nervous in their first serious job?! Add to that a woman in a “man’s job,” who is likely getting constantly questioned as to whether she belongs? Yeah, there would be some nerves. \n\nIf there was an actual standard live bullet round that she brought on set, she is responsible. But if that is not the case, and she trusted the first AD to watch the gun cart while she handled one of her responsibilities, then she has no culpability here. \n\nThe AD, on the other hand, is ABSOLUTELY culpable here. He completely botched this entire thing, and handed an unsafe weapon to an actor. \n\nThe director, since he was on set, also bears some culpability. Why the hell was anyone in any potential gun arc? That should not have happened. \n\nIs it entirely possible that the armorer screwed up? Absolutely. But it is likewise entirely possible that this entire tragedy was out of her hands.", "And he's the one pulling the trigger.", "The armorer didn't issue the gun, it was picked up by the assistant director. The safety procedures for loading it were not followed. This wasn't the first times guns had been fired erroneously during filming for this movie. A lot of mistakes were made, two people were shot and one of them paid for the mistakes with their life.", "If you listen to the guy in the video, he stresses the importance of having an expert be the custodian of the guns. This is the cost cutting I think happened. Someone unqualified was the custodian.", "But the reasoning has been made to you multiple times. And you're ignoring it. Why should anyone answer your hypotheticals? When you keep ignoring the point. It makes no sense.\n\nAlec, is an Actor. 1st and foremost.\n\nThe Armorer, had a job. And failed it magnificently.\n\nThere's not much to discuss..\n\nAlec is as much of a victim. He paid and trusted someone to do their job, and that employee failed to do their job, causing in a unfortunate death. It's as simple as that. And you refuse to accept that. You're no different than a child nagging at their parent asking \"Are we there yet?\" In repeat. When the answer is \"No\".\n\nBut sure, make fun of someone's spelling error if it helps you feel better.", "It was a real live round, NOT a blank. A blank can't kill someone 20ft away", "Tell me you don't understand guns without telling me you don't understand guns 🤡", "This was NOT the film Brandon Lee was killed on. This was a film from 2000, Lee died in 1993. Please make that clear in your comment. It is not the same person responsible.", "I read somewhere that Brandon Lee died from a squib — what had happen was is that they had cartridges that they just dumped the gunpowder out of and left the primer on it. The primer is a small explosive charge that ignites the gunpowder. Someone pulled the trigger on the gun with those emptied cartridges. The primer had enough power to send the bullet into the barrel. Then later there were blanks in the gun, when they fired a blank the power charge did its thing with the bullet that was in the barrel. \n\nAlso, I don’t understand how it is that when people who know nothing about guns will immediately walk over and pick one up if they see it sitting around.", "It was a live round and slug, not a blank, not that hard to deduce", "Blanks do not have a projectile in which to fire. Blanks have a primer and powder, so it goes bang and makes a flash but nothing comes out.", "It doesn't. It's any round with primer and powder that goes \"bang.\" Both blanks and ball ammo are \"live.\"", "Sounds like recipe for disaster..", "No, blanks only do damage extremely close and newer blanks are much less dangerous. The guy in the video said they generally give 25ft between people and blanks, which makes it so they don't so any damage. Muzzle explosion with no bullet at point blank will do a lot of damage, but not because of the blank wad", "Sauce?", "No, your analogy doesn't fit. It would appear that the production crew, including the prop master and/or armorer, take your lazy view on firearm safety.", "You need real guns to fire blanks.", "That is exactly what I think happened. The check was skipped between the armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, who would have known what type of ammo was in the gun, and the Assistant Director Dave Hall, who handed it over to Baldwin and declared it to be safe to use.\nEvery article with a timeline of the reported events says Hall grabbed the gun off the cart, no mention of checking with Reed, and declared it safe to use in that scene.\n\nIMO most fault lies with Hall for declaring it safe without checking with the expert Reed. Second most is for Reed for apparently leaving a loaded gun accessible to the crew. Unless Reed told Hall the gun was safe, then all the fault lies with Reed as the expert in charge of all the firearms and ammunition.", "I’ve seen multiple individuals blaming Alec Baldwin for this. The man is an actor and his job is just that. There were multiple people in charge of making sure that prop gun was safe before it ever came into his custody. I’ve seen certain individuals insulting him for being anti-gun and not practicing gun safety. It’s a crying shame that people constantly politicize every incident or issue that’s brought up in the media.", "I don't understand how many of you dinguses keep making this point like it means anything. There's different rules on sets for a reason.\n\nHow many times in your average episode of CSI do you think that actors are pointing their guns at somebody with their fingers on the trigger? That also breaks gun safety rules, but it's a set. They're actors acting. The responsibility is on the experts they hired to make the weapons safe.\n\nIf somebody died on the set of a Halloween movie because the prop master switched out the spring-loaded knife with a real one and the actor stabbed somebody then would you be here saying that the actor should have checked the knife first? It's not their job. Their job is to act. The armorer's job is to make sure that the weapons are safe before they're handed to the actor.", "Yeah and is supposed to take each bullet out of the gun after the expert has loaded it and read each bulletin? GTFOH", "Have you seen guns in movies? Real life accuracy is not a concern.", "So you’re saying that a famous dude who’s producing something had opportunity to make a change after 3 misfires before the accident?", "Yes, big problem that gun was declared to be cold when it was not.\n\nI found and have read the Safety Bulletin #1 titled RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF \"BLANK AMMUNITION\" issued by the Industry-Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee for the Motion Picture and Television Industry.\n\nThe bulletin uses the terms \"live ammunition\" and \"blank ammunition\" to distinguish between the two. Blanks are indeed \"live rounds\" in that they go bang, but the difference is that live ammunition (i.e., the kind with bullets) should never be on a set, period, while blank ammunition (aka, live rounds that happen to be blanks) is allowed and used on set. I like that approach better, myself, and I think there would be a lot less confusion about this topic if different terminology were used.", "Well it has to be someone's first job at some point but if this major fuck up in your second time in charge it doesn't look good for her.", "https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set\n\n> A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.\n\nIt literally does", "From the reddit and media knowledge alone. Armorer seems to be the person who keeps the guns. So no one can take it without their explicit permission even if they want to. No chances of sabotage.\n\nAD should also check with armorer before taking gun, let alone passing it off and saying it's cold.\n\nBlaming it all on actor doesn't work like I said in other comment because often they're supposed to take guns from other actors in a single scene and they literally don't have time to check. \n\nHow many movies have scenes where someone snatches a gun and shoots/points at the other person in the same cut? They literally won't have time to check gun themselves in those cases.", "Live=powder and primer. Anything that goes \"bang\" can potentially hurt someone and is considered \"live.\" This includes blanks.\n\nBoth blanks and \"ball ammo\" (has a bullet in the casing) are called \"live.\"\n\nNeedless to say, ball ammo should not be on a set.", "They usually use a different kind of blank gun for those. One that ejects the gases through ports in the top of the gun instead of through the front.", "TMZ is actually frequently a solid and reliable source for this kind of information. They are one of the few publications with very* deep industry connections.\n\nTMZ is basically WaPo for Hollywood. They know everybody in the entertainment industry.", "Lol, is that the only firearm safety rule you know? Countless movies have been made involving guns that had 0 people shot and killed. Likely because they followed the rules of firearm safety. It's clear that they didn't do so on this movie, one article said guns had gone off twice before the incident where two people were shot. Shooting incidents are almost never accidents. Someone failed to act appropriately and the woman died.", "Few things\n\n>Why was there a live round on set to begin with?\n\nYou mean \"ball ammo.\" Blanks are also considered \"live.\"\n\n>Did they really allow production crews to use guns?\n\nSupposedly the armorer was letting people use the guns for target practice (recreational) during down time. I'm still looking for a source on that but it could be a plausible explanation.", "I'm just glad that by holding the nail my fingers were at least a few inches away from the blasting cap. Otherwise those fingers would have likely been gone.", "Yes, the armorer failed to do their job. The actor pointing a gun at someone is a part of acting", "The fact you're referring to it as a \"real bullet\" also adds confusion, because that's not what you'd call a cartridge loaded with propellant. In the firearms community, the \"bullet\" has a specific meaning.", "Involuntary manslaughter for the AD. Change my mind.", "I keep hearing different things, but it sounds like in some circumstances the AD will often double check the armorer’s work before handing over to the actor. Not sure how common that is.", "The same can be said for this platform. Lol", "My heart of course goes out to Halyna Hutchins and her family, but also to Alec Baldwin. Though it wasn’t his fault at all, he now must live knowing he pulled the trigger. That’ll haunt him forever.", "Yeah, I know, that’s why the term live round is confusing in this instance.", "And you're being downvoted for saying one of the most important rules of a firearm.\n\nI hate reddit when it comes to anything serious.", "Sorry if this is a dumb question, but with advancements in animation and video editing can't they just use fake guns? And edit the muzzle flash etc in?", "The blanks are loaded with extra powder for extra bang-flash. If a bullet winds up on in front of that…you get an overpowered shot. How Brandon Lee’s death worked out I believe. Wasn’t shot with just a .44 Magnum…but an overpowered blank behind a lodged bullet.", "Live / spent Blank would be more apt \|[::])", "Yup, keep your fingers AWAY from the cylinder at all times.", "Its always great when randos can make money from piling on a tragedy. Never stop being classy social media and never missing a chance for likes and subscribes!", "There are 2 types of \"fake\" bullets. Theres ones with no gun powder but has the tip so you can see the bullets in the revolver or when its removed. And then there's \"fake\" bullets that you use so that still makes a flash but not supposed to have a projectile. \n\n\n\nThe problem is when you use a combination of the 2. If you fire the former but accidentally left the firing cap (like a little spark plug just enough to make a small spark) even with no gun powder the bullet projectile can still get \"fired\" about an inch forward and remain in the barrel. And then if you fire a fake with a flash after this... you will still get a flying bullet that's almost the same as a regular bullet but lower speed as if it had a shorter barrel.", "It does make it homicide though.", "Accidents like this only take place in a culture of systemic negligence. I'm sure they will find one scapegoat to pin this on, but fuck ups like this really are a team effort.", "Perfect. Exactly why people were walking off set complaining about safety in the first place", "No it doesn't.", "And \"prop gun\". In this case, it's a real gun that just happens to be a prop in the movie, but it can also refer to a fake gun that's a prop in a movie... The press has been doing a horrible job at explaining what all these things mean.", "One of my problems with reporting on this case is the term \"Court Documents\". There are so many news outlets reporting that,\"Court Documents show that Baldwin was handed a weapon by the AD (Assistant Director? Associate Director?) who stated 'cold gun'.\" \nWould \"court documents\" indicate this information was corroborated by multiple sources? \nNone of the websites show who provided this statement to the court, if anyone else witnessed the calling out of \"cold gun\", or even if the AD confirmed the information somewhere else in the court documents.", "Very well. All I can say is that if I was an actor I wouldn't be pointing that gun at anyone unless I saw them inspect in front of my face.", "This is the exact reason for redundant safety measures and steps in place handled by industry professionals, beyond the normal personal gun safety rules.", "Well, it’s really easy. If you look and there’s a bullet at the end of the casing, it’s not a blank. Google it. Do you just blindly do what an “expert” tells you? You’d probably look down the barrel of a gun if an expert told you it was clear.", "The assistant director, prop master, and armorer failed to do their jobs. But the actor could have also checked the gun before the cameras started rolling. I'm no actor but I served in the military. I never received a gun without checking its status and I've never given a gun to another person without them knowing the gun's status.", "I believe they have to be a minimum distance away.", "Not the previous day. About two weeks prior they did the shots with what were supposed to be dummy (empty primerless) bullets. One had a primer and that's why it's slug became lodged in the barrel.", "Hannah Gutierrez Reed, I worked with her on the short film Good Time Girls in summer 2016, we were both just PAs at the time but her dad was the armorer and she had a reputation for having an attitude and being the laziest PA. Don’t like passing judgement on individuals in public, but I Can’t say I’m surprised.", "I've heard that sometimes filmmakers avoid pointing guns at people altogether and use camera angles/perspective to make it look authentic.\n\nI don't know if it's common or not to point guns at people but the above is just something I've heard.", "Curiously enough, the only movie I have hear that kind of critique before is John Wick..\n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/Jj3_R8nwy5Q", ">gun was used the previous day with a live round \n\nIt was not a live round, it was supposed to be a dummy round (just the bullet and the case without powder or primer). What happened is that at some point the prop department bought a box of live ammo to be used as a prop, but the guns master for the filming confiscated it as he did not want real live ammo on set.\n\nSadly some time later when it to came to shooting some action scenes with a revolver, someone decided to transform those into a bunch of blanks and dummies cases instead of purchasing them. In the process of making the dummies they removed the bullet, the powder and striked the primer before putting the bullet back into the casings. But some of the primer had not been properly fired or someone confused casing supposed to be turned into blanks with dummies.\n\nSo when a team was shooting some b-roll whit the revolver loaded with dummies a bad home made dummies with a live primer was fired. It released enough force to delodge the bullet from the case and it became stuck into the canon, making a seal.\n\nThe next day when shooting the scene with Brandon Lee, the revolver was loaded with blank that had a full charge of powder. When the revolver was fired while pointed at him the bullet was pushed out of the canon with a lot of power, not as much as withe real ammo but evidently enough to be lethal.", "No, im saying that producers edit..which is what i said", ">In the gun world\n\nThis is why this is such a controversial topic. In your world, the rules and responsibility are very simple. That's why they work. However, it's impossible to film a movie where people shoot at each other while following those rules. So, *they have different rules. They have to.", "Because you know the difference between between real bullets and fake bullets that look exactly like real bullets right?", "\"I refuse to understand things, that's why everyone but me is wrong\"", "Except they are actors. The last person that should check the gun is the armorer who makes the decision on if the gun is safe or not. The more people that interact or fiddle with the gun after it’s declared safe the more chances things can get fucked up.", "Fair point on the blanks. I was thinking live round to mean one with a bullet. But yeah even a blank is a live round. Duh", "Then you should be bitching at Alec for having one in the first place.", "My issue with your comment: he was likely using counterfeit SLAP rounds that he had no way of knowing was counterfeit. Only with the benefit of hindsight after watching and rewatching the footage did he realize they were hotter than they should have been. Given that he purchased from an otherwise reputable dealer, I would argue that the negligence was actually on the dealers part rather than his. \n\nMore than likely, what happened was that a counterfeiter packed the round extra hot in order to make the round more closely mimic a SLAP round, resulting in the accident that happened.\n\nI mean... do you disassemble a sampling of rounds after you've purchased a box just to make sure the correct weight of powder and the right mixture is used? (That is rhetorical: of course you don't, that would be ridiculous)\n\nIf this were an issue of him using a poorly maintained firearm or something, I would absolutely agree with you... but the story as I heard it sounds like he did everything right, and someone just took advantage of SLAP rounds being stupidly rare and made a shitty counterfeit that almost killed him.", "What is wrong with all of you? You don't know jack shit about movie making or guns. They've always used a mixture of real guns, plastic or rubber prop guns, and real guns rendered unusable when making films and tv shows depending on the scene and what's happening. \n\n>Like...as an actor, you are told to take a real* gun, point it at another person, and pull the trigger.\n\nYes genius, they sometimes are. That's why it's so important to keep track of the guns and what's in them and have multiple people checking and clearing them. The armorer should have never left them laying on a table, they should have all been cleared to begin with, the AD should have checked the gun and so should Baldwin when he was given it.", "It’s so weird how hard people are defending Baldwin on Reddit lol… wonder why", "A live round: Round of ammunition with a bullet in the cartridge. \nBlank round: Round of ammunition with gunpowder and no projectile. \nDummy round: Round of ammunition that looks like a live round on \n camera but cannot fire. Essentially a prop fake bullet. \n \n \nThis was not a prop gun, despite what people are calling it. It was not a fake gun or a gun that only shoots blanks. It was a real gun. The round inside the gun, according to the documents was a live round. So a real bullet. A bullet which should under no circumstances be on the set. We can lay blame on the 1st AD, but if someone is bringing live ammunition and mixing it in with prop ammunition or blank ammunition that is an EXTREME HAZARD. It's an extreme breach of protocol. It should hold criminal consequences. If the protocol for handling a firearm and determining its level of safety is not adhered to, that is an EXTREME HAZARD and should carry criminal consequences for everyone in charge who was not abiding by the protocol. This included the prop master, the armorer, the 1st AD and the PRODUCER who ALSO HAPPENS TO BE ALEC BALDWIN. BOTH OF WHICH WERE PRESENT AND NOT FOLLOWING THE SIMPLE STEPS NECESSARY TO INSURE A SAFE ADHERENCE TO THE VERY SMALL SET OF RULES NEEDED WHEN EXCHANGING A FIREARM AT WORK. This blame game is disgusting. ALL OF THESE PERSONS WERE CULPABLY NEGLIGENT AND RESPONSIBLE FOR HER DEATH.", "Literally and figuratively", "Stress cracks are visible.\n\nBending and warping are visible.", "\n>Does someone who use guns recreationally even do these things? They check that the chamber is empty, but they don't clear the barrel every time they put the gun down.\n\nYes, most of us do. If I even examine a gun at a shop and I just watched them clear it before handing it to me I drop the magazine and pull the slide enough to check the chamber. It's an ingrained safety habit to always look. And at the range your required to clear the gun and put in a chamber flag when it's not in use.", "You're just straight up agreeing with me except the last 8 words. Don't know why you're being so rude. \n\nYou really think that every actor is supposed to unload the gun and check if the ammo is live every single time they're handed a gun? I can't imagine that's how it works on other sets.", "This is the first post I’ve seen where Reddit is actually defending irresponsible gun owners.\n“Gun nuts” are laying out how to 100% prevent this from happening and being downvoted.", "Right - but what I'm saying since we're all just speculating is that maybe something was too close and the muzzle blast effectively turned into shrapnel. Would also explain how two people got hit, since we don't really know if it was a proper bullet and if the 2 victims were lined up in a row.", "Not exactly. Some designs are certified and put into production and then an issue arises when using the firearm within certain circumstances.\n\nLike with ammo from a certain manufacturer or operating in certain temperatures or weathers.\n\nYou truly never know.\n\nThe same happens with cars or any other form of engineering.", "If the weapon is under your control it is your fault.", "That's not what the prop master in this video said. The armorer and assistant director were supposed to verify the ammo being loaded were dummy rounds. Simply trusting that it was safe cost a person their life. Trust but verify could have prevented it. And the actor, which is also the producer, could have verified the correct ammo was being used. A simple check could have saved her life.", "Why not just use prop/fake bullets that look real. Heck, plastics could pull it off. Don't understand the need for any real bullets on a set...period.", "Shaking the round seems prone to failure - why not use rounds with no primer? Would they be worried about that showing up in the shot?", "I agree with you, I don't know a thing about guns and sometimes I do find some gun action scenes juat wrong.. still, I have never thought \"if just that was fixed, this would have been a better movie\".", "How hard is Alec's PR team working to shield him from any consequences, I wonder (LOUDLY and OFTEN)", ">But I've gotta take all the risks.. it's gunna sit on my shelf for god knows how long waiting for that right person to come in and want it, then I'm going to have to negotiate with him.. I've gotta make a profit on this. Best I can do is five bucks.\n\n/r/shittypawnstars", "Not exactly. He himself stated that the rounds were too powerful for the cartridge. Think pressure building up that has no where to go so it bursts open the gun in a kaboom sense.", "What’s your take on the blame being cast on Baldwin? You see comments all over Reddit that he had a responsibility to check the gun, himself. This to me seems insane and actually less safe than expecting proper protocol to prepare a safe prop for his use.\n\nYour thoughts?", "The military defines them as accidental discharge and negligent discharge.", "AGAIN - If you have a fucking gun in your hand it’s your responsibility. \nAlso, he’s the producer and hired, or approved the hire, of the inadequate armorer. \nHe’s not a murderer but he is responsible for what happened.", " You being too dull to understand it doesn't make it confusing.", "The actor isn’t either of those people", "I'm speculating, but from what I've read it sounds like they had just finished a shot and were blocking out the next one when this happened. So I do not believe cameras were rolling.\n\nGiven who was present at camera (notably not video village) it's likely they were still in the early stages of framing the shot and rehearsing the action.\n\nIn these instances the actor should be using a stunt gun (a fake gun) to rehearse, and only be given the actual gun for a take. It sounds like the shot they were trying to achieve had Baldwin removing the gun from a hip holster and pointing it towards camera where the operator, DP and director were huddled around the on board monitor.\n\nDuring a take with a firearm pointed at the camera I believe crew typically stay in video village and either operate the camera remotely or lock off the shot. The failure to use a stunt gun for the rehearsal seems to be another breach of protocol during this tradgedy.", "I dont know about anywhere else, but in the military, ammo is either live or spent. Blanks are called blanks and the \"real\" ammo is called \"ball\" ammo.", "You are out of your fucking mind.\nAre you really trying to claim Baldwin is the victim? You realize 2 people were shot and he wasn’t one of them, right?\n\nin what fucked up reality does advocating for the safe handling of a firearm make you a victim blaming gun nut!?\n\nI can only hope you’re a troll and not truly that delusional.", "I honestly don't understand why every single time an accident happens, you have some gun nut bleating about it being \"negligence.\" Sometimes, it is just an honest to goodness accident.\n\nIn the specific case of this post, it is 100% negligence on the propmaster/armoror/etc's part. In other cases, it might have just been an unfortunate accident that just.. happened. Invisible stresses on a firearm due to use/age/whatever resulting in the pin slipping and discharging a round/manufacturing issues/whatever.\n\nLike... not every gun owner is intimately familiar with firearms. Myself, for instance, I understand them well enough, and take mine to the range every once in a while to keep proficient with it... but outside of that, it is for home defense and sits in my safe nearly 100% of the time.", "There were two weapons experts on set, hired last minute. The original unionized expert quit when he felt the production was too stressful (long hours, long commutes, very little sleep) and thus unsafe.\n\nSo the production hired two inexperienced non-unionized gun experts (I've seen reports that it was a father-daughter team), and they would shoot target practice for fun using the same guns from the set.", "To add, you should be practicing firearm safety when loading in the event it does malfunction. You don't plug in a toaster with your hand in it, you don't load a gun with barrel towards anything you want to keep alive.", "It's not up to the actor to double- and triple-check that that the crew knows what it's doing.\n\nHaving said that, pulling the trigger during rehearsal was pointless, and shouldn't have been done.", "He literally just told you why it could be invisible", "I think a piece of the modified revolver, maybe the barrel \"plug\" like a washer in the barrel to prevent ACTUAL rounds being loaded maybe dislodged from the blank charge, and that piece acted as the projectile, which means the armorer didn't modify the gun properly for on set use, usually it's pinned and welded in the barrel.", "They could use candy coated chocolate like a M&M that the art department painted up", "Real bullets pose deadly risk vs effort in mass making fake looking bullets for use in more than one film.", "Seems to me it should be a solid rule that if you need a real gun for target practice, you use gun A. If you need a prop, use gun B. Gun A NEVER gets used as a prop and gun B NEVER gets used for target practice. I'm no expert but I feel like a protocol like that would save lives.", "Feel free to downvote me if you think this is a naïve question, but why don't they use the equivalent of realistic-looking cap guns and do all of the FX in post? Wouldn't that be worlds safer?\n\nEdit: these are great answers which make sense. Thanks for taking time to respond.", "Yes.", "If you don't use them in your dummies, inevitably, the director will want a shot of the actor opening the cylinder to check it, or load a cylinder or magazine on camera - in which case they will definitely be missed.\n\nPrimers are typically deactivated before they're used to make dummies, either by heating them between pieces of screen, or by soaking in water or oil for several days. They can also be set off from inside the empty casing, so the exterior remains pristine. However, once the trigger is pulled, the firing pin strikes them and creates a dimple, so they're useless for camera purposes and need to be replaced.\n\nI've sometimes solved the primer problem by mixing fine aluminum powder with clear silicone, and using that to fill the primer chamber. This works well because if the trigger is pulled and the firing pin strikes the silicone, it just bounces back, and creates no dimple. However, it's not good for full-frame closeups.", "There's no such thing as an accidental discharge? Lol k, so did you want to acknowledge the Remington lawsuit, or just use more bullshit to pass off that you're whole \"guns don't go off on their own\" is horseshit.", "You might also add some clarity around the role of the AD. People often mistake the AD as being the right-hand of the director when, in fact, they report to the production team and their job, if any, is to kick the director’s ass if they feel s/he is squandering resources and falling behind on budget. Ie: the AD was likely the one cutting corners and literally putting people at risk.", "You check the chamber before the take, ensuring that it’s empty, or is 100% filled with blanks, not live ammo, before pulling the trigger. And yes, it should be camera angles that ensure safety (or ideally, CGI).", "Damn. That means he shot straight through the camera into the cinematographer's face.", "The hypocrisy of this statement is truly breathtaking. \nThe same people who want responsible gun owners disarmed (generalizing but you know I’m right, and I’d bet you’re in that group too) shouldn’t be required to follow basic safety guidelines? God forbid their pretending is interrupted or made slightly more inconvenient. I’d much rather have holes in 2 people.\nAnd typing “firearm safety” tells me you know fuck all about the subject.", "That’s what I thought about live round but the guy in the vid says that does mean there was a real bullet. Feel like I’ll never get a straight answer.", "How does this make any of what I said bullshit?\n\nI said \"normally\".", "When you can't form an argument, throw an insult.", "Not at all. It's up to them to show me it's fake.", "The information is all being collected as part of a police investigation. Their job is not to release evidence to the media, it is to determine if anyone committed a criminal act. We’ll find out the details in due time, potentially at trial.", "What's the argument to be made other than the fact that I and pretty much everyone else reading this has been able to understand it, leaving you pretty starkly alone in your inability to comprehend it?", "To top it all off, it's Baldwin's production company", "Actors want a producer credit for more money and prestige, and because their force of will might have helped something get made.\n\nIt doesn't mean that after arranging financing from people with real deep pockets to pay someone with real producing experience they have so much as influence of the type of cheese at the craft table. At least, not more than they would as the top billing actor.", "If your firearm hits the floor thats also probably negligence. 9/10 times its an improperly holstered weapon falling to the ground, not fumbling the ball. Waistbands arent holsters.", "It’s in the OP video.\n\nSounds like Baldwin was doing a close up shot where he cocked and fired a gun at a camera. This type of shot would mean that “dummy rounds” with real bullet tips but no powder needed to be in the gun. But through the armorer’s negligence there were actually live bullets in the gun and Baldwin ended up shooting it past the camera and into the crew.", "the Monday morning quarterbacking on this story is epic.", "In all cases \"live round\" means \"a round with a gunpowder charge\", regardless of whether it has a slug. \n\n\nBlank rounds and slug rounds are both \"live rounds\", the difference being the payload and differentiated by the terms \"blank round\" and \"slug round\", as opposed to \"live round\" and \"dummy round\".", "Something somthing Brandon Lee", "I read that people involved with the production had been using the guns for target practice. A blank has a paper wad at the end, it won't penetrate through a body.\n\nThese were not blanks.", "Your attitude gets more people killed", "You also see people bending over backwards (really some pretzel contortions) to hold Alec blameless for any responsibility in this. Despite the fact that he is a producer (note the \"a\", not a \"the\"), and despite the fact that basic gun safety would have prevented this, and despite the fact that HE was the one who aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. \n\nYeah, absolutely totally tragic situation that should not have happened. How about we all suspend judgement until an independent investigation determines the facts and decides whether or not anyone was criminally responsible/negligent.", "There's two kids of 'fake ammunition', dummy rounds with a bullet and no powder, and blanks with powder but no bullet.\n\nThe dummy rounds on the set of The Crow were actually homemade - they just emptied out the powder from real ammo then put the bullet back in the casing.", "That dude has cool eyes.", "I read that they had fake metal tips in the front of the revolver chambers so it looked like it was loaded, and the blank mistakenly got loaded behind one of those fake tips, essentially making it a real-ish bullet. Not sire if that’s true but it makes way more sense than “accidentally” putting a real bullet in. And while blanks can cause damage up close, they don’t cause that kind of damage from across the room, certainly not enough to penetrate two people.", "Propmaster.", "Why? Because I want to make sure procedures are taking place?", "That and calling it a \"misfire\".\n\nLots of ignorance on pretty basic lingo muddying up conversations on what happened.", "Do you know far it's come? I see movies where people get shot point blank and they're ok\n\nObviously this situation was handled poorly, but even with 100% compliance, it's crazy to think the amount of extras/bad guys that've been \"shot\" weren't killed (I remember Brandon Lee dying and it made the news for weeks)\n\nThe two that come to mind are John Wick and Kate. Lots of bullets, lots of close-range shots", "Stop making shit and shit consequences up.", "... and someone kept bringing in live rounds?", "So do you feel firearm safety class should be a requirement for owning a gun? Wouldn’t that be an infringement on 2A?", "I read they had fake bullet tips in the visible revolver chambers so that it looked loaded, and the blank may have been loaded behind one of those by mistake.", "So you support mandatory firearm safety courses to own a gun?", "It is not they they are not possible to find, it is that no reasonable person looks for them between firings of a gun. So if that happens, the owner of the gun would not be liable through negligence.", "> ...save in the holstered, issue sidearm of a local peace officer hired by the company to provide traffic control or other security services.\n\nLeave it to Americans to need live rounds to direct traffic.", "Small correction. It was eleven days later, not the next day.", "Where did you study metallurgy?", "Because most (if not all) seem to be looking for ways to hold him blameless in all of this. Or at least to minimize his responsibility for it as much as possible. \n\nI am not emotionally invested in Alec Baldwin. I don't love/hate him at all. The facts alone should decide who is responsible, no matter how we personally feel about any of the people involved. \n\nDo you disagree?", "Thanks", "That would be far more expensive than a $0.30 blank and may still look fake.", "Always flex your forearm?", "That’s the beautiful thing: you don’t have to be a metallurgist to know that sometimes shit breaks with no warning.", "You clearly have excellent training in what constitutes responsible gun ownership.\n\nGosh, can’t imagine why we have so many gun deaths in America.", "def. Homicide is the killing of one person by another.\n\n>Homicide is an act of a human killing another person.[1] A homicide requires only a volitional act that causes the death of another, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.[2] Homicides can be divided into many overlapping legal categories, including murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, killing in war (either following the laws of war or as a war crime), euthanasia, and capital punishment, depending on the circumstances of the death. These different types of homicides are often treated very differently in human societies; some are considered crimes, while others are permitted or even ordered by the legal system.\n\nfrom wikipedia\n\nGotta educate these Redditors Fedoras.", "Still, the AD . . .", "That’s a great question, but in my opinion the point is moot - if you think a gun is live, it should point nowhere NEAR anything you don’t want to shoot, and even pointing a gun in the direction of the cinematographer would be a recklessly dangerous decision. So a deadly fuckup occurred before Alec even got his hands on the gun, in my opinion. Yes, of course if Alec didn’t pull the trigger, this wouldn’t have happened, but as far as gun safety on a set is concerned, IMO you should assume NOT pulling the trigger and simply aiming to be potentially deadly, thus extreme care by a professional armorer, and a rigid, strict protocol for anyone who is responsible for handing actors a gun, is the only procedural way to have safety on sets.", "Oooof", "Extremely hard to do on period accurate revolvers etc. This being a western many of the guns are likely revolvers etc. Lots of the time with older weapons they need to use real firearms with \"safe\" ammo as modifying them is too difficult, expensive or otherwise. (Lots of the time these weapons are as old as they are meant to be because it's much easier/less expensive to just get a period era weapon)\n\nThe issue here is that the gun had \"live\" ammo (probably still blanks or otherwise, but if it has a charge it's still \"live\") but was handed off as a \"dead\" gun which is meant to not have blanks or anything loaded. So the person holding it assumes there would be no problem pulling the trigger whilst aiming at someone.\n\nThe worst issue here is the guns were unnatended, then were picked up and handed off by the assistant director. This is huge break in safety measures as only a certified armorer is meant to touch, move, or hand off guns to actors. They are also meant to double check before handing them off to make sure the gun is \"dead\" or \"live\"\n\nThe AD picked up a gun from 3 that were unnatended, assumed it was dead (even yelled out \"dead gun\" to everyone to let them all know it was dead and safe) but didn't check if that was true before handing it off. He shouldn't of been handling the gun in the First place, let alone saying it is safe without checking.", "Seems so.", "Plenty of blame to go around, but gun safety begins and ends with the person holding it", "Genius", "There are a hundred camera and editing tricks to make that happen, those aren't usually blanks. John Wick (and most modern cinema) uses mostly cgi on explosions and gunfire, which has gotten really realistic looking", "Exactly, why in the world would someone think an actor should be trusted with / responsible for this this? As asinine as as suggesting that an actor should be responsible for life critical safety checks on explosives on an action movie set.", "What frustrates me about these downvotes is, if he had walked out, that woman wouldn't have died. Your downvotes are showing me youd rather a woman die so everybody on that set didn't have to risk or lose their jobs if alec walked out.\n\nSo like, what the fuck is wrong with you guys?", "He's been a target for hatred from the right for a long time before Trump. He was one of the primary antagonists in Team America.", "Agreed, my YouTube shorts section is half this guy and half Lisa Nguyen, and I find myself distracted by them both quite often.", "A lot of people think guns are toys.\n\nI’m with you though. Even if you accept the guns being used off-hours, I literally cannot imagine how stupid you have to be to not clear someone else’s gun that you’d been dicking around with.", "There is a lot of talk about how baldwin should have cleared the gun as a basic rule of gun safety. But what i want to know is what he would be clearing if he was meant to clear it as per those replies. \n\nIe was there suppose to be blanks in the gun or was it suppose to be empty. If there was meant to be blanks, then him clearing it would just show that, he would then clear it because that is what is meant to happen and the accident would have happened anyway. \n\nBut then the question is why would he then point that at someone and pull the trigger knowing there were blanks? \n\nSo the only conclusion is that if he was meant to clear a gun, he would do it to make sure nothing was in it. \n\nIf that was the case, the saying that the basic rule of gun safety that anyone holding a gun should be checking whether blanks or bullets were in the gun makes sense. \n\nThe argument that he wasnt an expert and therefore doesnt need to check the status of the gun doesnt seem like a strong argument for two reasons: (1) it doesnt seem like checking whether there were bullets in the gun doesnt seem too complex of a check for a non gun expert to perform with basic trsining, (2) things that are high safety risk deserve more repetitive and stringent checking and (3) movie sets can get be chaotic with many things happening so there could be miscommunication or mistakes by others making the final check by the person handling the gun more important. Hence this is exactly what happened on this set resulting in the loss of life. It also seems like that is why there is the basic gun safety rule of “check the gun no matter what you have been told”. \n\nIm no gun expert so i am not making any view as to whether baldwin should be or shouldnt be held liable. And i suspect this would be downvoted because it seems like this thread downvotes anyone even slightly critical of baldwin but i thought i lay my curiosity out there.", "There simply isn't enough energy for that to happen unless something round is in the barrel. I was under the impression two or more bullets were fired in succession, but it may have been one. You wouldn't know anything had happened for a second or two and you can squeeze a trigger twice insanely fast. I can empty a .22 rifle's 10 rounds in 2 seconds", "[This explains the Brandon Lee incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4oWpnuAOk&t=327s)", "While your vapid deflection attempts are admittedly adorable, the matter at hand isn't my feelings on alec Baldwin or the situation, but your inability to admit your own cognitive shortcomings understanding a simple statement made and immediately contextualized. Once we understand that, then we can move on but there's no point trying to speak rationally to someone unable to comprehend simple sentences, no?", "That’s not what you are advocating for here. You are talking with your ego", "The word you are looking for is bullet. In the industry they also refer to blanks as live rounds.", "I never said they were. I said he was the last person to touch the gun and could have checked it. If he had, the people.might not have been shot.", "Are you seriously telling me that you have never shot your gun without first inspecting the entire surface of every part, including though imaging so you can check for internal flaws?\n\nDo you do the same for every bullet you fire? /s\n\nEither you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying, or you have such an axe to grind here that you are ignoring it.", "It's a movie set not your local shooting range. Of course there were cartridges in the gun...because again, it's a FUCKING MOVIE. The only way he could've made sure it was safe would've been to unload the weapon and inspect each round to make sure it was a blank/dummy round then reloaded it. That's not the actors job nor should it be.", "So he'd have to unload the weapon. How is that safe?", "I'm not American - nor are the police that my employers hire.", "You don’t break safety protocols. It may have saved lives in this specific case, it would end up making the industry less safe tho", "Damn, you got me there bro, it’s all good, I’ll keep my post up so that people that have less rocks in their brains can differentiate between the liberal regurgitation, and the objective facts….", "That makes sense for John Wick because the amount of gunshots. I guess I should've clarified because I meant close-ups and recoil, but I'm guessing recoil can be done in a gun without blanks and everything else can be done in post", "It's. A. Movie. \nIt's not your local shooting range. Guns on movie sets are often loaded with blanks or dummy rounds. The only way to check if the rounds are safe is to unload and inspect each round. Not the actors job nor should it be.", "Don’t make shit (sabotage) up.", "I mean the prop master for rust said she did not know hot to load blanks", "So let me get this crystal clear.\n\nYou're expecting an actor to determine if it is a live round or a blank?\n\nSeems wildly ridiculous and dangerous to do so.", "More than that: Not every gun owner is a metallurgist. Expecting every gun owner to be an expert in metallurgy so that they could be aware of all possible structural flaws and all signs of metal fatigue/weakness is an impossible standard.\n\nI do not think this guy actually realizes what my point is. Responsible gun ownership massively reduces the chances for an accident, but cannot utterly eliminate it. People are not perfect, and so we cannot make accidents into strict liability crimes if we want a just society.", "I think that in the movie and prop industry a \"live round\" can mean a blank with gun powder which is a different from a dummy round without powder that is just there for looks.", "In other words. It should be up to the experts. Not an untrained actor. The actor should get the gun with proper safety procedures and do his job and point it at somebody and fire it.", "Call me crazy, but this seems like a bunch of protocols with many points of failure for a shot that is completely unnecessary to actually do. The top of the hierachy of controls is elimination for a reason. This is the industry that has people buying baguettes every day to signify that the character wasn't doing anything important off screen. I think we can handle a revolver not having dummy bullets in it.", "And the four rules of gun safety ensure that even if you accidentally break one of them or the gun has an accidental discharge, consequences will be minimal.", "You completely misinterpreted the point. \n\nFirstly, I doubt you do this every single time you pick up a gun.\n\nSecondly, clearing the chamber is not the same thing as clearing the barrel. The last time that someone died on set from a gunshot (28 years ago), it was because there was something lodged in the barrel.\n\nThirdly, you conveniently ignored the most important part of this which is the ability to check the contents of the round itself. Which I know 100% you do not do because it is impractical bordering on impossible unless you assemble your own ammunition. But in Hollywood that doesn't make you the actor, it makes you the armorer.", "Hard to know as I don't think the details are out there, but the previous incidents were probably guns loaded with blanks but the actors/stunt doubles/crew thought that they were unloaded.\n\nClearly though, safety protocols around firearms weren't being followed.", "I counted 182.", "What? No. Nobody ever said that. Where did you get that idea? Someone else is absolutely supposed to check every weapon before it is handed to an actor, though.", "Excellent details, thank you!\n\n I am a former firearms instructor, so movie craft isn't my first instinct when thinking about how to do things - I can imagine lots of ways to make a gun or round safe, but they would all add delays, or switching parts between shots, which I'm sure isn't always possible.\n\nMaking realistic primers at scale might be possible with some of the new 3D printing resins...\n\nThank you for a peek into a very interesting industry!", "My money's on \"paralysis\"", "Even as the one about to pull the trigger, that you would have knowledge of the same things to identify the rounds.", "The weren't following safety protocol. How does adding more safety checks make the industry less safe?", "I understood perfectly after OP provided the context. I suggested that he might clarify in his original post, he is free to do or not as he pleases. \n\nWords mean things, after all. \n\nBut yes, I do absolutely agree with you that there is no point trying to speak rationally to someone who is unable to comprehend simple sentences, or for that matter, to answer simple questions that were posed to them, or again for that matter, who would prefer to try and insult rather than have a discourse.", "Oh look at hat, everything I said and got downvoted and scoffed at for because I’m not a movie expert, just a dumb gun nut.", "He could even afford to pay his crew so my guess is not many.", "The stuff you see working in a gunshop. Haha", "I guess we'll see how this pans out and see if you're wrong. Something tells me you probably are.", "Nah, that's an actual blank gun. The revolver in question here was an actual firearm crew used for target practice off-set, and live and blank rounds got all mixed together.", "Oh you mean the context provided in the post should you have the mental capacity to read all the paragraphs? The context no one else needed explained out to them multiple times in subsequent comments because it made sense already?\n\nAnd good, then you understand why anyone who's unfortunate enough to try and have a conversation with you wouldn't find their efforts fruitful. You can come see me again when you've worked on that.", "Nah. It just showed what depths you stoop to.", "Because you’re allowing a non expert to manipulate the gun after the expert on set has examined it.", "That's exactly what I'm advocating for, I would be uncomfortable handling a gun for which I did not know appropriate procedures took place. If you find that egoistic, then I'm gladly egoistic.\n\nEdit: Apparently, it is industry standard to prove to actors that the weapon is safe as a courtesy. This was from Campea's latest video in which he received an email from someone linked to the production on Rust. What I'm saying is not even novel, I was just ignorant of this fact.", "It could me that it was dropped in a scene, got gravel in the barrel and with a blank it’s gonna be coming out hot.", "oh, wow. do you think you're smart? the pistol was aimed in that direction because he was directed to by the director and cinematographer. has nothing to do with baldwin. \n\n\nfunny, in your attempt to make a point you highlighted how deeply confused you are. you're blaming baldwin for the directions he got on set that day, you absolute lunatic\n\n\nalso, the mere notion of referring to baldwin as a shooter is questionable. he was acting, his job's role was to act out a scene, not inspect every prop given given him", "Negligence is getting them off too easy. This entire situation is the result of a needlessly risky plan. Guns on movie and theater sets should not be able to actually fire period. There should not be live ammo anywhere near the set period. The shots that need a level of detail beyond a vague shape of a gun probably don't actually add anything to any given story. Would this person be alive right now if protocol was followed? Yes, but they would also be alive right now when protocol wasn't followed if protocol wasn't so needlessly risky.", ">This amorer was working on her second project. She was clearly not competent. Other armorers had already refused to work the show for the compensation and amount of guns they expected.\n\nI dislike your logical progression here. I'm not saying that it's not the armorer's fault, but you've just made several huge leaps in logic.\n\nFirstly, it being someone's second job does not automatically mean they are not competent. It means it's their second job. They have to start somewhere. You must have a second job in order to have a third job. Competence does not enter the equation. I have a family member who has never had a second job. They have worked for the same company for the last 15 years. I daresay they're quite competent. Back to the armorer's competence there's an LA Times article that has a glowing review of their work on their first job. Now, it might just be a lie, but if we take it at face value (which we must because as outsiders we can only get secondhand accounts at best) then she was competent.\n\nSecondly, other armorers refusing to work for the reasons you stated also does not mean that she was incompetent. It means that this job was not paying the industry standard appropriate rates and armorer's who are more established in the industry turned down the job because they would be underpaid to work on it. This is indicative that the production was not taking crew welfare seriously. Beginning with wanting to underpay their safety workers, extending into prioritizing the product over the crew's well-being, and culminating in a crew walkout due to poor working conditions immediately followed by a death. Going back to it being her second job, it is entirely possible she was hired because she was willing to be underpaid to get further into the industry (i.e. to be able to get a third job and a fourth job and so on and so forth). It is not strictly speaking a sign of incompetence.", "I question why was Baldwin pointing a gun anywhere near backstage staff. Should never have happened.", "nope, it's the failure of the person whose job it is to ensure props are safe. there is no way around this, its actually on the level of a logical proof\n\n\npremise 1: jobs are only to be done by individuals with particular sets of skills relevant for that job\npremise 2: the armorer had the relevant set of skills for the job of 'ensuring prop safety'\nconclusion: the job of prop safety had to be done by the armorer. \n\n\nnotice how when you add in untrained people checking, it doesn't work with the logical proof? that's because you're not supposed to be having untrained people doing other people's jobs.", "Yeah, it was amazing to see that about face to \"OMG it was an accident, the person who actually pull the trigger is completely blameless!\" from the crowd of reddit's anti gunners.", "How is that different than what happened in this situation?", ">AD should also check with armorer before taking gun, let alone passing it off and saying it's cold.\n\nAs I understand it, the AD should never* touch the gun. The armorer hands it to the actor, the crew get their take, the armorer personally takes it back.\n\n>How many movies have scenes where someone snatches a gun and shoots/points at the other person in the same cut? They literally won't have time to check gun themselves in those cases.\n\nThose scenes are supposed to use nonfunctional guns. If actors are within 10 feet of each other, it's too close for a blank because that's deadly/harmful. So in such a case, a gun that is incapable of firing a bullet should be issued (like a gas blowback).", "Wasn't an AD, was a ND.", "He's also listed as producer for this movie. So he kinda was in charge of the people in charge.", "Negligental discharge", "That's the sad part", "Thought that was the editor who does that.\n\nWhat a [producer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_producer) does...", "Link plz?", "You seem very angry and bitter over this. I don't know why you feel the need to take it out on me, but feel free to do so if it helps you out. Peace and love to you my fellow human. Hope you are all right.", "They didn’t follow safety procedures in this incident. The answer to that isn’t to make the procedures less safe tho", "Oh that’s…that good stuff right there bud lol", "I don't drink often and I can feel the effects of one beer, although it doesn't make me drunk. By all accounts, Dick Cheney does not drink often and hasn't since the late 60s.\n\nYou may drink enough alcohol in your life where you don't feel one beer, but that is not a universal experience, and your OPINION on blood alcohol content and its impacts on cognition are not scientific fact. Not everyone has the same experience as you.\n\nIt isn't unreasonable to assume he felt the effects of one beer. It's also not unreasonable to inquire if he drank more than one beer, since ya know, there was an accidental discharge.", "Misreading context to suit your needs does seem to be your singular area of expertise, I suppose.", "Blanks are loaded with less powder, yes.", "He's using a replica or non-functional firearm in that case.\n\nYou don't use blanks on set if actors are going to be within a certain distance of each other because that's still deadly. At that distance they're given a prop gun (a proper prop that literally cannot shoot a bullet) and add in the effects in post.\n\nI find it really funny that you used this movie scene as an example given that it's a movie that also contains a scene of a man blinding another man by shooting him in the face with a blank.", "Oh wow, you think you smart? All i see is a child that doesn't know what personal responsibility is.\n\nAny weapon is considered loaded, it is the responsibility of the person handling it to make sure the weapon is safe.\n\nAll of these excuses you are coming up with are a tell-tale sign of an infantile mind. \n\nIt's always someone else's fault with you isn't it?", "The \"battle of pedantry\" is important because of my last sentence.", ">Most filming is done with real firearms for authenticity.\n\nDemonstrably false which shows you have no idea what you're talking about.", "I mean, an AD is when I clear a gun, remove the magazine, check the chamber again to make sure it’s clear, leave the slide locked open, a bird flies by, takes a shit which causes a round to jump into the chamber, the slide slam home and somehow the weapon fires. \nA negligent discharge is when somebody pulls the trigger of a gun and is surprised that it fires.", "The armorer should be involved every step of the way but the person using the item should absolutely know the status by checking it with the armorer.", "> How about we all suspend judgement until an independent investigation determines the facts and decides whether or not anyone was criminally responsible/negligent.\n\nInnocent until proven guilty on this site? What an alarming idea. But you're not wrong.\n\nThat said, for what it's worth, all of the versions I have heard of it so far was the trigger was not intentionally pulled, but the weapon somehow went off. I can't speak to how true that is but it would add another layer to all this.", "You're statement was \"you need to treat every gun as loaded\"\n\nHow can an actor do this when he is literally pointing it at somebody and shooting it and was given it by a professional who cleared it?", "It somewhat sounds like the AD just grabbed a gun without having it checked or supervised by the armourer. In that case I put the blame on the AD.", "no. this is just a common illness among boomer idiots who were raised with little information invtheir childhood. you have no idea how causality and responsibility works.\n\nthe person whose job was specifically meant to ensure prop safety is the only person who was responsible for the props. no one else. but you literally want to make him less responsible. in your idiotic attempt to pretend to be hard on responsibility, you're actually taking away responsibility from the only person actually responsible and blaming others for their fault. and yet you think you're smart, the funniest shit in the world. you're so low info you hardly constitute as a person", "It's much harder to enforce safety protocols when the production is being rushed by the producers.\n\nIt's one of the exact reasons given that caused the union crew walkout the day of the incident.", "> I honestly don't understand why every single time an accident happens, you have some gun nut bleating about it being \"negligence.\" Sometimes, it is just an honest to goodness accident.\n\nIf you accept the reality that adding guns to any situation makes it inherently more dangerous, then you have to accept some other realities.", "for safety,all firearms used in tv and film productions are typically aimed at a dummy point,nat at equipment,cast or crew,Carpenter noted.Guns he said,are never aimed at a person.\n“You never let the muzzle cover something you dont intend to destroy” said Carpenter,whose new orleans based firm has worked on the sets of scores of tv and film productions.”All guns are always loaded.Even if they are not,treat them as if they are.” \nHollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services\n\nim sure you know alot more than him melcrose", "I’m going to be honest and admit that I had no idea he was a producer on this film. This makes me a a lot less sympathetic towards Baldwin. Either he or the co-producer should’ve stepped in and took action after the two previous on set misfires. \n\nI had took it to assume people were blasting him for not checking the weapon as an actor. This paints the whole situation in a different light. I wouldn’t be surprised if he sees some legal or civil ramifications from this incident.\n\nEdit: I am very confused now lol.", "Hmm what went wrong? Probably many thing since the crew was threatening to walk off set prior to this happening. \nIn 2017 Alex Baldwin retweeted a cop murdering someone saying, “I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone”", "He squeezed the trigger...stop defending a negligent discharge.", "> An old/ malfunctioning firearm that fires from a drop would stop be an accidental discharge, but not negligent.\n\nIt was unmaintained, and you dropped it. 2x negligence.", "The video I hoped for.", "I don't know much about guns, but with all the CGI available today, would it not just be easy to use special effects to \"create\" the gunfire in post?", "My friend works with him and says he's fantastic to work with.", "To be fair he is listed as one of several producers. Can’t tell how much producing he was actually doing or if he just lent his name.", "Once the bullet(lead projectile) is seated into the brass casing and crimped they would look identical. Assuming this video is correct you can tell the difference by shaking the bullets. BB’s make a rattle and gun powder sounds more like shifting sand.", "There's some \"gun nut\" bleating about \"negligence\" every time because it's always negligent. [Here's a graphic showing an industrial safety 101 topic called the hierarchy of controls.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/NIOSH%E2%80%99s_%E2%80%9CHierarchy_of_Controls_infographic%E2%80%9D_as_SVG.svg/1024px-NIOSH%E2%80%99s_%E2%80%9CHierarchy_of_Controls_infographic%E2%80%9D_as_SVG.svg.png) An \"accident\" like this falls under administrative controls which is tiny and near the bottom for a reason.\n\nAnd no, I don't own any guns. I just have a day job where I would be blind many times over if I trusted my safety to administrative controls which apparently hollywood does for fucking guns.", "oh God. without a shred of irony you said that last thing 'it's always someone else's fault with you isn't it' \n\neven though YOURE LITERALLY THE ONE BLAMING OTHERS FOR THE ARMORERS PROBLEM. the person who made the mistake was either the AD and/or the armorer, you want to take that blatant responsibility of allowing a deadly weapon into an actors hands away from the perpetrator and blame SOMEONE ELSE.", "The latest I read and I’m not sure if it’s completely true or not was they were just setting up to do a second take and Alec apparently pulled the gun from the holster and said or I can shoot both of you and pulled the trigger", "Unintentional slamfire has entered the chat", "It is. my friend had to return his rifle to other month because it was slam firing. Guns aren’t perfect", "Props to that guy.", "Nice", "This is often true. The AD (Assistant Director) is kind of the arbitrator between what the director wants to achieve and what the line producer and production has scheduled. You only have so many days to shoot on a movie and days are king. You go over days -- you go over budget. This is what's at the heart of the IATSE strike and why crews get treated terribly trying to finish long days. Because adding days is expensive. \n\nSo, often Assistant Director's get the unenviable task of having to crack the whip to keep productions moving. It's a hard job. Often they're grinding harder than anyone outside of the director. A good AD knows how to push the director in the right way, while letting him/her get all the coverage they need for a scene -- while keeping everything moving. \n\nThe AD on Rust was obviously not qualified for his/her position.", "You can't hire novices to save money, especially not for something this important.", "Correct: no training is required to be dead wrong.", "I mean I do stoop low you are right", "You’re demonstrating that beautifully", "It’s a movie set. There are not supposed to be live rounds there at all. It’s a prop. This video show that there are supposed to be several people making sure that that gun is not loaded. And he was told that it was not loaded when he was given the weapon. \n\nSaying he’s 100% at fault is wrong. This was a series of fuck ups that we don’t know about yet. We don’t even know if he actually pulled the trigger or the gun went off accidentally. There are people who’s only job is to make sure that weapons are safe before giving them to actors. Alec is an actor, not a weapons expert.", "Use of a lethal instrument carries the responsibility ensure it doesn’t kill anyone.\n\nNegligent homicide is a thing.", "Send them to acting school then…", "If you’re actually into guns you know that the NRA is shit", "This terrified me as a child... I didnt understand that blanks were not the same as the toy guns I was playing with... they all had a powder stuff that would.make a pop sound..", "Can anyone explain why real guns need to be used in the first place? Are there not realistic replicas that can be used with muzzle flashes and sound effects added later?", "There are special mechanism props to replicate recoil without using blanks.\n\nThey are significantly more expensive than actual firearms and blanks so.....", "You evidently don’t know much about CGI either. It’s a comparably expensive process when compared to this type of practical effect.\n\nImagine a running gunfight with 30-50 shots on screen, or worse, an automatic weapon with 100s of shots, and you’d spend a phenomenal amount it time getting it believable.", "I have zero experience in the movie production industry, and no really idea how it all works. I was glad to see the armorer go over some of their normal safety protocols, going as far as to demonstrate an unobstructed barrel. I feel like that step was probably made standard in the industry because of the Brandon Lee incident.\n\nIt made sense to me when the armorer stated in Westerns/period films they use functional revolvers instead of dedicated prop guns, as the authenticity is basically the characters costume, .ie Maddie Ross' Colt Dragoon.\n\nIt made sense to me when the armorer explained the use of dummy rounds in a loaded set revolver, it would look out of place with empty chambers.\n\nSo yeah, that's a long way of saying that real guns that may or may not be loaded with blank or dummy ammo, and intended to be handled as a firearm, need to have very specific safety protocols in place and supervised by dedicated staff.", "Real bullets \"tips\" with no powder in the cartridge aka \"dum dum\" rounds. Except these were set made and some idiot left the primer in/unfired/partially fired creating a squib (bullet lodged in the barrel) that went unnoticed.", ">DO NOT DROP ANYTHING.\n\nTell you you have no experience in the real world without telling me you have no experience in the real world.\n\nPPE wouldn't be needed if everything and everyone was perfect. But people handling dangerous shit use PPE. Want to guess why?", "Lol what a smear piece.", "Yeah, he really gives off that kind of vibe on video. Like the fun dad everyone is happy to see 😂", "Stars usually get a producer credit for more shared revenue / pay. It doesn’t mean he had the authority to make changes to prop handling or it was even top of mind for him.", "It just seems like they could do these types of shots remotely utilizing remote camera triggers/controls.", "yea I don't understand how none of the 3 different people who handled the gun minutes before the accident ever bothered to check what was in it.", "Totally unfair to blame him but ok.", "My whole dilemma on this is like everyone else, that no one is explaining how in the fuck does a live round even get onto a movie set and then into the gun iteself? There are checks far into the process prior to getting onto the movie cart. What were live rounds even being on the set for?", "That's what i remember hearing", "Huh. I didn't think of it like that, I guess you're right.", "Explain to me how an expert explaining how the established protocols for weapon handling were breached is in anyway “Monday morning quarterbacking.”\n\nFyi, the definition is:\n\n> Monday morning quarterback\n> A person who acts like they have all the answers to a problem, especially in hindsight, usually without having any experience in that area.", "It's not a misfire, and Baldwin should be charged with mis-handling of a firearm. Doesn't matter if you were given the all clear by another guy, you should always practice basic gun safety. Don't point a gun at people, especially people who aren't even actors. Don't pull a trigger on a weapon you haven't inspected. Doesn't matter if it's not your job, once that firearm is in your possession, you are responsible. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And idiots like Baldwin deserve to be served justice when they aren't responsible.", "The movie industry calls any round with powder a live round. The firearm community, police, military, and, well, the rest of the world call a live round a round with a slug that's ready to be shot. Both blanks and live rounds are real bullets", "The prop/fake bullets you mean are called dummy or dum dum rounds. Casing, bullet no primer (or most commonly shot/expended primer)\n\nIn Brandon's death these were made on set (improperly) and the primer was intact/only partially expended (happens with cheap materials more often than you think) during the down the barrel scene shot earlier.\n\nLots of mistakes, lots of places those mistakes could have been caught but weren't so...tragedy, and it will happen again regardless.\n\nIn the fast, right, cheap equation, humans pick fast and cheap most often", "It should be taught in high school tbh", "As someone who has never handled a firearm I think it's insane they wouldn't test fire every dummy round before clearing it for the shot; in ideal circumstances.\n\nnot hiring scabs is probably another good precaution ...", "And sometimes there are no visible stress cracks or warping before a piece of equipment fails. Stop pretending you dismantle and inspect every component of the gun in between every time you fire the weapon. The overwhelming majority of gun deaths are due to negligence. Some incredibly small percentage are not. That shouldn’t be a controversial statement.", "Wasn't he filming a movie?", "Some revolvers, some have frame covers that make this unnecessary (and also look less cool so...)", "“If you don’t dismantle and inspect every component of the gun between each shot you are an irresponsible gun owner.” Lol.", "Accidental or not, he DID pull the trigger, so he carries some blame", "Like when they are handed the gun and it’s called a cold gun?", "There weren’t suppose to be blanks in the gun for this rehearsal either, which is why people were in the line of the gun", "Come back when you have a degree in metallurgy and/or corrosion sciences.", "I don’t think blanks being dangerous was being disputed. The fact a projectile went through someone and into another makes one question if it was a blank to begin with.", "I'm so glad that living in Canada I had basically 0 chance of this ever happening to me, especially since there are no gun owners in my family or any friends close families. I definitely would have done some dumb shit like this lol.", "Dude you can literally kill somebody with a car and get off with a \"I hit the wrong pedal.\"", "Idiots laugh when the educated speak.\n\nWhich STEM degrees do you have?", "If so it's going to be stupid easy to prove negligence. \n\nBy way of example gov't agencies are required 24 hours between use of live ammunition on range/shoot house scenarios and \"force on force\" exercises using blanks to (help it still happens) having live rounds mixed into actually pointing barrels at people in training.", "I wouldn't have it any other way ;)", "It depends how \"authentic\" you want the final product to look. Post-production costs a lot if you want it to look good, and blank bullets comparatively cost nothing (couple bucks vs hours of rendering and line mapping). Especially for a western, which are built on their simplicity and authenticity, a post-production gunshot would seem bizarre and could kill the suspension of disbelief", "Would it be possible it ricoshaded off of the camera, hit her in the stomach and went on to hit him in the shoulder causing minor injury for him?\n\nI'm guessing getting hit in the stomach it would travel relatively easily through the tissue when not hitting any bone.", "Just watched James Bond. There is a shot where he pulls the magazine out to see how many shots and you see the bullets. This would be the kind with a bullet or some bullet looking tip but no gun powder or a primer to ignite gunpowder and propel the tip out of the casing and gun barrel.", "Pointing a gun, loaded or not, at a camera with a human operator behind it is UNIMAGINEABLY stupid. Even Baldwin would know better than that. There probably wasn't much thinking going on on that set", "Negligent discharge* not accidental. Accidental would be if everything was done correctly and the weapon went off despite it. Not nothing being done properly at all and it going off when some trash bag pulls the trigger.", "Typically modern revolvers aren't made with the style of frame like that anymore for that specific reason.", "Fair enough", "I think Baldwin, as an actor, has some responsibility and is negligent as well. Let me explain.\n\nI used to think that it was clear that Baldwin had some responsibility, at least to personally check his gun and not point the gun at anyone. But after looking what transpired, I think its not that clear cut anymore. \n\nThe first question Id like to know is whether he was aware of gun safety issues prior to this accident. Specifically, was he aware of: \n\n1. camera operator complaining to the production manager about gun safety on set\n2. two accidental prop gun discharges involving an incorrect clearing of the gun \n3. message being sent to the unit production manager saying there were 3 accidental discharges\n\nI think this is relevant because it could potentially put baldwin \"on notice\" that there was a strong lack of gun safety protocol on set. For example, if you were aware that there were 3 accidental discharges on set and a lot of complaints about gun safety, what would be a reasonable persons reaction when faced with what baldwin faced from the moment he was given the gun?\n\nThe next question is what happened when the gun was given to baldwin?\n\nThe 1st AD handed over the gun to baldwin and said it was cleared \"cold gun\". That was communication that the gun had dummy rounds in it. Then Baldwin, relying on that info, pointed the gun at the camera and pulled the trigger. What Baldwin didnt do was check the gun himself. \n\nFrom here, we have some standard negligence law questions.\n\nDid Baldwin, knowing what he knew, have a duty to make checks about the gun's safety when it was handed to him by the 1st AD?\n\nBaldwin, appearing in over 90 movies, would most likely have known that the 1st AD does not hand guns to actors (this is the protocol according to the post). So when the 1st AD here handed the gun to Baldwin, he would and should have identified it as a red flag and should have asked why the 1st AD was handing it to him instead of the armourer. \n\nI think if there was a red flag about someones life, there is a strong argument to suggest that Baldwin should have followed up with this red flag. The argument gets stronger if baldwin knew about the 3 accidental discharges on set before and how many complained about it to senior staff. The follow ups could be either or both of: (1) why are you handing me the gun and (2) did you check that these guns have dummy rounds?\n\nThese questions are quick and simple questions that would have revealed the 1st AD breaching protocol (if he was truthful) or if the 1st AD lied and said it was done, Baldwin would have removed any argument that he didn't follow up on this red flag.\n\nThere next argument is the argument that baldwin should have checked the gun himself. I used to think this was the case until I saw this video. If the check was a simple check to make sure there is *nothing* in the chamber, its a simple and quick check he can perform himself. So Id lean towards maybe he should have personally checked the gun himself. But this particular scene *required* bullets in the chamber. What was baldwin suppose to do when there is meant to be bullets? Was he meant to then unload the gun, shake the dummy bullets to hear the bb sound and rearm it? \n\nNow this is where the first argument against baldwin's responsibility becomes relevant. The first argument is that this is not baldwin's job. I think this is the strongest argument in discharging any argument of his liability. If it was a simple check to make sure there were no rounds, that would make sense. But here, the check is a more labourious process of shaking bullets and hearing sounds. This job is for the armourer and the 1st AD. With the 1st AD saying that it is cleared, I think it was reasonable for baldwin to not personally check the gun, assume the test was done or make further enquiries.\n\nThe second argument against baldwin's responsibility is that he is not an expert on gun safety. I think this argument is generally a weak one and one baldwin doesnt need in this scenario. Its weak because simple gun safety checks can be done by anyone and everyone would have been trained on gun safety in a movieset beforehand. \n\nThis leaves one argument - he should have asked why the 1st AD brought him the gun instead of the armourer as this should have been a red flag to baldwin given his experience on set and more so, if he knew about the 3 accidental discharges on this set. My personal opinion, Id say he *is* negligent to not follow up on this red flag given that he should have known there were many protocol failures on his set and this is a human life safety issue instead of an operational or creative issue (for example, double checking if cars had enough fuel to where they need to go). \n\nWas he in the wrong to point it at someone?\n\nThere is a lot of talk about never pointing to gun at someone you dont want to shoot. But here, baldwin is *meant* to point it at the camera (and therefore the DP). There is nothing baldwin did wrong here. But this also makes it ever more important to double check the gun before the scene takes place. \n\nOverall conclusion\n\nThis fact and the fact that there are meant to be bullet looking things in the gun are unique factors that prevent double checking and additional safety measures (like not pointing a gun at someone) to take place after the gun is out of the armourer's hands. There is only one possible gun safety check involving someone other than the armourer before a particularly dangerous scene involving a gun, loaded with undistinguishable bullets, being aimed and shot at people.\n\nA new actor probably wouldnt know this and maybe baldwin was too busy or preoccupied with other stuff to be focusing his attention on it. But he oughta because he is experienced and this deals with human life. There is no other more important priority regardless of what your role is than safety and baldwin should have followed up on the red flag.", "How does a live round find it's way into a gun on the movie set. Two...I don't care if you have a \"armor or prop master\". You handle ANY gun...never point it at anything you're not willing to kill. Even unloaded.", "Glad I could get through to you, it’s of course tough with the thickness of your skull, but I’m glad it got through 🤙\n\nYou’ll be there soon enough brah", "They exist, the prop department just had a box of live rounds they weren’t allowed to use, so they decided to DIY them into fake rounds.", "Clear it yourself before the shot", ">Negligent homicide\n\nNegligent Homicide is not a strict liability crime in my Jurisdiction or in New Mexico's. (I looked it up a few days ago.) They apply the very objective reasonable person standard I am referring to in my responses.", "But why was a live round even on set? That’s the negligent part", "Wouldn't the only problem be a real/powerful gun that can kill people on set? Like literally if I hear \"prop gun\" I think realistically looking toy and not \"real gun with not as deadly bullets\"", "\"Like when they are handed a gun that was improperly retrieved from the armorer's cart and not checked by the armorer or first assistant director and it's called a cold gun?\" The protocols in place weren't followed. Additional safety measures could have prevented it. If Baldwin had more firearm knowledge he could have prevented the tragedy.", "Yeah, I always wondered why with certain films there were tons of intro logos and how they were all connected. Makes sense now!", "OR you can use a realistic looking toy and noone dies.", "I watched this whole video expecting a pin at the end, didn’t get one but it was worth a shot.", "baldwin is to blame. a person who was the offspring of someone who did the same thing and never had anyone shot is to blame. some gun guy was shooting a gun with live ammo that was later used on set is to blame.\n\npeople die all the time because other people make stupid calls.", "That’s just not true", "In your biz are blanks considered non live rounds?", "Armourer probably had a designated station. AD might have even intentionally waited until the armourer was in the washroom or on a smoke break just to avoid the \"hassle\" of routine safety checks. \n\nThat being said, firearms shouldn't have ever been available to crew without having been cleared, and that's on the armourer - so ultimately I agree with you. Poor decisions all around.", "If it's just blocking for the camera, it should have been a rubber prop entirely. You don't need the actual gun you need for the shot, blanks or no.\n\nThere's no need to hand someone a \"cold weapon\" when they could just not use a weapon.", ">An \"accident\" like this\n\nIf you read my comment, I did say that this cinematographer being killed was 100% due to negligence, that was never really a question here, tbh. I was commenting on other comments pretty much saying that there is no such thing as an \"accident\" with guns, and that it is always negligence - that isn't always the case.", "Haha yeah whatever you need to tell yourself brah", "Accidental pvp", "How the light plays off the metal is important.", "Editors edit. A producer may over see the editing process in some cases. There are also many different types of “producers”… some producers are on set, some never even step foot on set.", "Cant even say because people disagree on what a live round is", "Then you use a plastic one with reflective coating. Or whatever is equivalent.\n\nYou have a prop master for a reason.", "This isn't manslaughter. Manslaughter implies that the person intended to cause harm but did not expect it to be fatal.", "The gun would of been safe without bullets, it’s used often", "It also could have been a second shot I heard that the way it was filmed, Baldwin had no way to see what was on the other side of what he was shooting at and that he may have shot twice but there’s a lot of speculation so don’t take that for cash either", "Pulling the gun and pointing at the camera. Typically wouldn’t be pointing a prop gun at anyone.", "Thank you! As someone who used to work in the industry, it is SO frustrating to see how little people know about the production process and are throwing blame onto Alec Baldwin just because he has a producer credit. So many comments that say, \"Well he was the producer so it's his fault\".", "Recoil. Apparently, it's very difficult to produce authentic-looking recoil without using a real gun.", "They cannot. The armourer has a single, extremely important job that they are to be present for at all times. To check and maintain EVERY single weapon that is used or is going to be used on set. Her not being there means she failed at her job as it means she wasn't there to check and maintain safety protocol.\n\nAn incident like this is very easy to avoid as long as the armourer does there job.", "It seems like \" live round \" hasn't been defined, it doesn't need to be a bullet...at least from what I'm hearing.", "Do you ever take a step back and think about how dumb what you are saying sounds? How many intelligent people do you see speak that way?", "B-b-but....'diversity'....\n\nWe should all just be happy they didn't employ some experienced 'old pale stale male' who actually knew what they were doing, right?", "Imagine if they put as much effort into giving people guns as they do handling them", "Diversity hire.", "Why the heck are you so focused on his responsibility? There were multiple people in charge of props. Even if they were incompetent, he isn't their manager. You point to his experience, but maybe his experience taught him that issues are handled. If he wasn't sure, then he misjudged. Regardless, it would be way out of line for him to mess with a prop. He was there to act. There were PLENTY of other people who could have checked that gun too, by the way...none did. So clearly everyone thought it was fine.", "Because he has to live with killing someone, when he only expected to be handed a safe prop?", "For real, what the fuck. \"There's no accidents, just this other word that is listed in the thesaurus under accident\". Guns kick ass but dear god I fucking hate gun owner culture so much. Group of overgrown children looking to shift blame to someone else so they can continue their lethal hobby.", "You're acting like he was the only person there besides the prop person. You do know that there is an entire team of people who run movie sets. The actors are just there to act. They have to trust that everyone else is doing their job. He's handled many prop guns and never has there been an issue. This is a super rare occurrence on movie sets.", "The gun wasn't supposed to be empty. It was supposed to be full of dummy rounds, that look like real rounds with bullets.", "No one has said it was an actual bullet though, articles all make it clear live round just means anything in the gun on a movie set. Even a blank is considered a live round.", "The bestest puns. Starting with the channel name.", "One thing we got taught in risk management is that the vast majority of major incidents are not due to a big error, they are the result of a series of small errors and small process deviations.", "Sorry, person who knows nothing about guns here - what is a blank? I thought it just meant no bullet, an empty gun. How can that still injure/kill someone?", "If the gun were handled properly then even a planted round would be found and removed easily by the armorer or anyone else who handles the gun, each of whom has an individual responsibility to personally check that it's cleared.", "No, he wasn't. Producers have all different types of jobs, and many times the big name actors are attached as producers to get investors interested. There are 8 production companies attached to this one, Baldwin had very little to do as a producer.", "I used to think that anybody with a brain checks a gun when they're handed it to see if it's loaded, until I started in on the comments on this. \n \nI'm cranky because people like Baldwin who bitch that we need more gun control and doesn't trust gun owners trusts a couple of nitwits to make sure he doesn't accidentally shoot somebody. \nJust look at the comments on this situation, not just on reddit but everywhere. Actual shooters are flabbergasted that he just assumed the gun was empty because somebody told him it was. It's basic firearm safety rules drilled into most of us when we were children that every gun is treated as loaded. Yet there are people all over these posts going on and on about how actors shouldn't have to follow such basic safety practices because somebody else is supposed to do it for them. The armorer may have some bad feelings about this and lose some sleep over it, but she's not going to be reliving shooting someone to death over and over every night like Baldwin is for a long time. \n If Baldwin had opened the loading gate and spun the cylinder he would have known something was wrong because he was told it was a \"cold gun\", which is Hollywood for \"empty gun\" so it shouldn't have had anything in it at all. In the end, nobody keeps you safe with a gun but you.", "Thank you for explaining how the prop master made the fatal error. \n\nThose pointing fault to an actor... how would he have noticed the difference, and why would he think that someone would be THAT dangerously negligent?", "I said that. \n\nhttps://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qelj37/_/hhx8cvz/?context=1", "Assistant is also known as “the bitch.” Now I’m not vouching for the AD or not, but maybe we should look into the director themselves and determine their work management environment. A lot of pressure and stress comes from those who are “in charge.”", "He would have to show negligence to be blamed. Otherwise, by your logic, if someone manipulated his hand and forced him to pull the trigger, he would still be the one to blame.", "Right now, the media reporting has been terrible. It's non-stop poor Alex and the tragic loss of life regarding the young cinematographer. It's lazy journalism. There's clearly massive problems with how the set and particularly the firearms were managed. Costs were being cut and personnel were being overworked. AB was not simply the lead actor. He was the Producer. He bankrolled the project and was ultimately in charge of the movie. If this was anyone else, and not someone who plays for the same side as the mainstream media, they would be getting crucified right now. Our US news is outrageously corrupt.", "At this point there is only one question left that nobody in a position to actually know has answered yet. As you would be in a position to know (and not just assume like so many keyboard analysts), I really hope you can help.\n\nIs it a rule/custom for the actor themselves to triple-check the state of the gun after it's handed to them?\n\nA lot of people are claiming that even if everybody else fucks up their job, an actor handed a gun is supposed to verify it's state. In this case, that would involve taking all 6 bullets out and checking them individually to make sure they were in fact dummies. This seems both reasonable (I wouldn't want to pull a trigger without being absolutely sure myself), and unreasonable (actors aren't always gun-savvy, it's a high-pressure environment, you have the whole crew waiting on you to start rolling, and you're supposed to be getting into character and acting).\n\nSo please, which is it? Was Baldwin obligated to check the bullets in the gun he was handed, or was it SOP for him to trust that the armorer, props master, and AD had done their job?", "Yeah the whole blanks thing has me confused as well. Only thing I can think of is someone confused a wad-cutter for a blank since wad-cutters are seated below the case mouth. To the ill-informed, they might think it was a blank when in fact it is a steel slug.", "> if the rounds were real he would easily be able to visually identify that as well.\n\nI'm not an expert but these [dummy rounds](https://detroitammoco.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/9mm115grRN.jpg) look pretty real to me.", "Blanks are blanks, they only shoot things if they're used improperly (too close, obstruction in the barrel, etc...) live ammunition is for actually shooting things. \nHollywood considers a gun \"hot\" with blanks in it and \"cold\" when empty, live ammunition isn't even supposed to be on the set.", "Blanks don’t explain how this could happen on their own. They have distance protocol for blanks to keep people safe. If it was not a projectile then following distance protocol should have been enough.", "Very said he has to live with murdering some due to the negligence brought on by his production company", "Sounds like manufacturing and selling that weapon is negligent too.", "\"Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor.\"\n\nAmmunition flew toward the trio?", "When I first heard about the incident I instantly thought of this guy.. interesting to get his take on it", "I still have a Remington 700 with the fucky trigger.", "I shoot my Model 1873 all the time, it was made in 1901. If you maintain a weapon it can last a very long time. \n\nI'm 150 years old by the way.", "I feel like you don't actually know what you're talking about, it's not the actors job to clear the weapon. Also, Alec Baldwin being a producer doesn't mean too much. Producers have very different jobs, and actors are given producer titles often to attract financing.", "The gun was not supposed to be clear. It was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds that look real.", "I think you’re a bit confused friend", "I've been 6 feet from a guy discharging a blank from a revolver directly into his neck. It was a stunt which went wrong. He fell to the ground, was taken to hospital with severe burns but was recovered ( I heard) by a few months later.\nBlanks shoot out burning powder and high expanding speed gas from the barrel, the damage they can do at point blank can be serious but tapers off so by 5 feet away - you'd just say \"hey, ow!\"", "So you're saying he didn't follow proto.", "> the same hemisphere\n\nI hate hyperbole.", "The “blank” went through a person and into another, that’s a hell of a blank", "If you’re a forklift driver moving poorly stacked pallets and one falls resulting in a death then you still had a hand in killing your coworker though you have less fault.", "That rod with the orange tip would have saved his life.", "Alex Baldwin is 0 percent responsible. There are so many steps in film before the fun enters an actors fucking hand....", "Directors and Actors have different liabilities built into their contracts than crew members because they are technically (according to legalese) more important than crew. That makes it hard for them to walk. I mean -- it depends on what kind of clout you have. Tom Cruise -- he can do whatever he wants. Alec Baldwin and Souza -- different ball of wax.\n\nIf your director and actors are walking -- there's absolutely a big concurrent legal push and involvement from the agents who rep all these people. And it's not just Director/Actors vs production. It's agencies and their lawyers vs production. It gets messy.\n\nI have honestly never seen a director or lead actor walk off a movie after production has started. Two days before? Sure. Happens all the time. After cameras are rolling. That gets complicated.", "At least link a source", "Sometimes dummy rounds will get stuck in the cylinder, hence the clearing immediately before the loading and handing off. It’s how Brandon Lee died.I can’t recall the term for it.", "I love this dude!", "In that analogy, the negligence would be on the one who stacked the pallets poorly. You would only be at fault or partially at fault if you operated the forklift incorrectly. That's why you pay someone else to load the forklift.", "I've done those types of movies before too. :) I remember them well.", "An alternative scenario is that there may have been something in the barrel already, basically obstructing it until a blank forced it out.", "> Its nonsense that baldwin should have checked the firearm or shouldn't have pointed it in anyone's direction.\n\nThe real reason Baldwin is getting dragged over this is because as a public figure he has been outspoken against the NRA and in favor of gun control legislation. So some will see this as some kind of hypocrisy on his part. That assessment is based on flawed reasoning, but that doesn't stop some people from jumping to that conclusion.", "From my experience I've found union workers more lazy and entitled and no better at their jobs than non union workers.", "I'll just leave this here for you:\n\nhttps://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797", ">live ammunition isn't even supposed to be on the set.\n\nWell not supposed too, and actually were, are two different things.", "A fellow person of culture I see", "Ok, but listen- the average American is mentally still a child, so the bar for “reasonable person” is basically subterranean.", "What went wrong is that Alec Baldwin, followed zero gun safety rules, pointed a weapon at individual, and pulled the trigger. This was an incident, not an accident. All it would have took was for him to rack the slide, ONCE, for a safety check. He murdered someone and should be held accountable.", "A real bullet should never be anywhere near the set of a movie. If that protocol is obeyed, then it should be safe to call a blank a \"live round\" as opposed to a dummy bullet that has no powder or primer. But clearly that protocol was not obeyed.", "No the armorer fucked up. The assistant director that gave the gun to Baldwin fucked up.", "I work props and can tell you… we get this joke a lot and it never gets old.", "I didn't knew the blasting cap could do that. I always kinda assumed it had not much more power than one of those popping things they sell to kids to put in toy revolvers and such. TIL.", "Not really? Or ar least not last time I checked. \n\nUnless it's a rare manufacturer like a singer or something, you can buy ww2 Era (even carried in the field ones) for like $3k, and that's with inflated Democrat president and covid pricing.", "“Which led to the firearm killing…” \n\n\nThe firearm? Really? The firearm killed someone? By itself? It just went off?\n\nEven after explaining how many ways this could have been prevented, how many people failed to ensure proper safety protocols were being followed, to use the phrase “…which led to the firearm killing…” cops out all responsibility from the NEGLIGENCE of those involved and attempts to place blame on an inanimate object.", "To me, that oversight was far less negligent than the current event (although still as serious). The Rust tragedy was a series of people ignoring well-established safety protocols for the sake of keeping things on schedule, and they should be held accountable.", "The biggest thing that went wrong was giving any type of gun to a game show host.", "How can a blank kill someone that far away and through another person? Blanks don't fire projectiles.\n\nAt worst a wadding is shot but that would barely have energy to penetrate one person let alone two", "Anything with a primer and powder is considered a live round in these circumstances, even if it is a blank.", ">Why the heck are you so focused on his responsibility?\n\nWell, the responsibility of the armourer, prop master and 1st AD is clear cut. And just because people in front are found to be responsible, that doesnt automatically relinquish baldwin's responsibility. Baldwin's responsibility is debatable and less clear cut, hence, why I am sharing my analysis with known facts and reasoning. I dont understand why you seem so upset about my analysis? Are you angry with the facts? Are you angry with the logic? Are you angry at why one even shares their opinion? If so, why are you only angry at me out of the thousands of comments here half of which are probably saying similar things?\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>he isn't their manager\n\nThats not relevant in negligence law. A duty of care arises regardless of whether you are a manager of someone who is incompetent.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Maybe his experience taught him that issues are handled\n\nSo when you see a red flag concerning human life, your go to strategy is \"well Im sure it has been handled\"?\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Regardless, it would be way out of line for him to mess with a prop.\n\nWith this statement, I can now see that you havent read my comment because I do in fact say that he had no duty to mess with the prop. You obviously just read my headline, got angry that someone could dare place blame on a famous actor, and gave every possible excuse as to why baldwin isnt blameworthy.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>There were PLENTY of other people who could have checked that gun too\n\nYes, there were the armourer, the prop master and 1st AD. Like I said, they are clearly so fucked its not even worth analysing their liability. I just did it for the most debatable and not so clear Baldwins case.\n\nLook man, Im sorry if my analysis upset you but Im not here blaming Baldwin for any reason. I reject many of most common arguments said by people who want baldwin to be punished and agree with many of the arguments that say he is blameless. If anything, I gave an objective view with reasons and you just seem to be an upset baldwin fan who would defend him even if he blasted everyone on set with an assault rile.", "I mean is it really that difficult to figure out? You always check to see if it’s loaded whenever handling a gun. Every responsible person will say that’s the first thing you do.", "TL;dw - Everything", "You’re an idiot. Get off the internet.", "One story is he shot at them as a joke outside if a scene.", "This isn't a big budget movie. Even a few seconds of CGI can cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is a big part of the budget of an indie film like this.", "So who has to pay out the negligent homicide civil case?", "Yea he’s trending, something about industry secrets being spilled is great for some people; it’s like learning magic tricks.", "haha blank wad", "It was a revolver...", "Its odd, a gun contol freak, who does not know a thing about fire arms. Who does not want anyone to have fire arms. Knows nothing about fire arm safety. Shoots and kills one person and critically wounds another person. And he still blames the gun. I would charge him and every one that handeled that gun with some sort of murder. I bet this left wing nut trump hater Hollywood has been does not serve a day behind bars. That just my thoughts.", "ITT: a bunch of firearms safety experts", "This isn't unprecedented in Hollywood. The Vic Morrow incident on Twilight Zone in 1982 resulted in criminal suits against Director John Landis, Associate Producer George Folsey (who I know personally), Production Manager Dan Allingham and a helicopter pilot named Dorcey Wingo. \n\nIt's a long story where a helicopter ends up decapitating the lead actor and children on set -- but suffice it to say -- this wasn't negligence... they straight up lied and broke labor laws to get the shots off. \n\nSubsequently, there was a nine-month criminal trial that led to acquittals of manslaughter charges for all the filmmakers. I would imagine -- you'll see criminal charges here too. \n\nWhat's interesting about Twilight Zone that nobody really talks about is that Steven Spielberg was a producer on Twilight Zone. Not producer in name only. He was the producer with Landis. Yet, Spielberg was never involved in any criminal cases. I've heard from Folsey why this happened, but he's got a pretty biased viewpoint. What is very interesting is that after the manslaughter acquittals, Spielberg was sued by the families and he settled out of court.\n\nAll this is to say -- it's going to be very hard to prove anyone other than the AD was truly negligent. As it stands -- he/she is the one who grabbed the gun and said it was safe. Everyone else will more than likely get off. But there will be trials and I'd imagine you'll see producers, production managers, the AD, the armorer involved at least.", "Reed", "\n>Firstly, I doubt you do this every single time you pick up a gun.\n\nThen you're dumber than I thought. It's a safety habit I was taught as a kid and cultivated as an adult. You can unload one right in front of me and hand it over and I still feel compelled by force of habit to check the chamber. Hell, I reseat the mag and check the chamber on my carry gun when I put it on before leaving the house even though I know for sure it's loaded. \n \n\n>Secondly, clearing the chamber is not the same thing as clearing the barrel\n\nCleaning the guns actually is the armorer's job. Brandon Lee's death was because the gun hadn't even been cleaned for two weeks since the gun had been used with improperly constructed dummy rounds for filming done in the fx department. \n\n>Thirdly, you conveniently ignored the most important part of this which is the ability to check the contents of the round itself. Which I know 100% you do not do because it is impractical bordering on impossible unless you assemble your own ammunition.\n\n\nNo, I didn't. There wasn't supposed to be any ammunition in Baldwin's gun at all, a \"cold gun\" in hollywood parlance is an empty gun. \n\nAs to the ammo, there isn't supposed to be any live rounds on a film set, blanks or dummy rounds only. \n \nI do load my own ammunition, not that it matters since I don't use blanks and if one of mine is loaded it's for real.", "A blank can't kill you especially at distance. The guy who was killed by a blank had it pressed against his skill and the pressure sent bone fragments into his brain.\n\nBlanks do not have a projectile.\n\nAt a distance of a few feet there is nothing in a blank that could kill someone.\n\nBrandon Lee was killed by a bullet. Thr bullet was previously lodged in the barrel.\n\nThe blank fired it the rest of the way", "Live round is a round with gunpowder.\n\nAs opposed to dummy rounds.", "I understand HOW this can happen, but I’m picturing myself shoot a revolver I can’t quite comprehend how anyone would possibly even put their fingers in that position. The only thing I’m imagining is someone for whatever reason holding a revolver like a mini rifle.", "Sure but they don't fire a projectile and can't kill someone across a room. Something else happened here.", "Why are there live bullets on a movie set? Were they there for a scene of some sort? Like who brings real bullets on a set?", "I haven't seen anywhere claim it went through the woman, only that it also hit someone behind her.\n\nBlast from a blank can do that easily if only slightly behind and to the side.", "I didn't downvote you, but I might say that money does matter more than safety to corporations. Well, that's maybe not fair. But every corporation is going to take risks to maximize profit at the expense of its labor force in some capacity. I don't think they want people to die -- but they're going to take risks to maximize profits. It's gross -- but this is capitalism in a nut shell. It will grind labor until they break and find new labor to replace them. \n\nAnd keep in mind. Yes, Baldwin walking could have saved Halyna's life. But Halyna could have walked too and she would still be alive, yet she didn't. And none of it really matters because we're speaking in hindsight and we don't really know the timing of information and how things went down on set.", "yeah same shit other timeline...moral of the story Epstein didn't kill himself!", "I think I’ve read somewhere that it can actually be sometimes cheaper to use real weapons instead of prop ones so that may be a reason why.", "Do we know yet if it was an actual bullet?", "There's a reason the union crew walked off protesting the lack of fun safety.\n\nNew prop master was a scab they hired.", "I don’t remember where the source was now it was quite a few hours ago when I read it", "Hey that's not Bill Tull.", "Primers easily have enough force to cause a squib which is why dummy rounds should never have them.", "They where shooting/setting up the scene. The lady who was shot is the cinematographer, she is standing next to the camera. The director is standing behind her. I don’t know if you ever scene a western but they literally have scene where the actor shots toward the camera. It’s pretty obvious how it happened. \n\nBesides the armorer is in deep shit. She had previously given a child actor a live gun that had an obstruction in the barrel that could have killed someone, luckily others members of the crew intervene. She only got the job bc her father is a famous Hollywood armorer/prop guy. Fucken nepotism.", "There's a reason the union crew walked off the set to protest the lac of safety.\n\nThen Alec Baldwin hired a bunch of scabs", "What is his YouTube channel called?", "It wouldn't. Not without a projectile.", "This is not even true.", "That's a roundabout way of saying scab.\n\nThere's a reason the union crew walked off the set to protest the lack of safety.\n\nThen Alec Baldwin hired a bunch of scabs", "You can gas coming out of the chamber where the bullets are. There is a bit of gas that escapes out there.", "Doobydobap into that mix for me too", "He decided to keep production going despite multiple complaints about safety and a walk out.", "There's a reason the union crew walked off the set to protest the lack of safety.\n\nThen Alec Baldwin hired a bunch of scabs and got someone killed.", "No. Too expensive and time consuming, for an inferior result", "I follow him on TikTok. It's a little strange seeing him be so serious. Not that we don't already know how serious this situation is, but seeing this video really drives home how much irresponsibility was involved in this whole situation.", "Politics just poisons and corrupts everything, including people's reaction to this story. There's no legal liability here for Baldwin but people need to pretend there is to score points for their \"side\".", "She was a scab.", "I absolutely wouldn’t blame him just because he was the one who pulled the trigger. \n\nIf it comes out he supported keeping the filming rolling after all the safety complaints and walk out, then he definitely deserves some of the blame for sure. \n\nI’m not sure where he fell in terms of supporting continuing filming or not. There’s a lot of producers and money in the movie, and it’s also unfair to assume if he was against continuing filming that he could have stopped it.", "As others have pointed out, actors tend to be listed as \"producers\" to get some additional money for their work, and to get a bit more clout for both themselves and for the movie they're working on, especially a smaller indie movie like this. But just because he was listed as a producer doesn't mean that he had any actual influence on hiring and production decisions. A comment above, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qelj37/professional_propmaster_talks_firearm_protocol/hhvlwzz/), goes into much more detail about it, but yeah, just because he's a producer doesn't mean he had any actual say in the hiring or financial decisions, in fact Baldwin and another of the smaller \"creative\" producers both advocated against scab workers on set.", "A blank doesn't have a projectile to shoot through someone.", "> could have been a true live round with prefer and a slug\n\nA slug projectile is different from a ball projectile. \n\nBall is shot from traditional muskets and modern brass casing cartridge firearms, and are sometimes using rifled tubes which are concentric engravings inside a barrel to spin the projectile to stabilize the trajectory. \n\nSlugs are shot from smoothbore shotguns and require atmospheric drag to stabilize the projectile.", "See the 1982 manslaughter cases of Landis and Folsey after the Twilight Zone deaths. Helicopter decapitation on set followed by year long manslaughter trials, followed by acquittals, followed by civil suits and subsequently settled for an undisclosed amount outside of court with the families.", "Usually it's other actors in \"the line of fire\". Guns are pointed at actors all the time by other actors, with the pretty safe assumption that they are not loaded and are safe to handle, due to proper oversight of the prop-master or armorer.", "I agree that these two seem to be where the mistakes were made/ there was negligence though obviously we’ll have to wait to find out for sure. I do feel bad for Alec Baldwin though, not only did he kill someone because of their fuck up, I keep seeing articles titled stuff like ‘Alec Baldwin shoots cinematographer on set’ which makes him sound like he murdered someone rather than just being unlucky enough to be the one firing that gun.", "> If it comes out he supported keeping the filming rolling after all the safety complaints\n\nThe fuck you mean if?\n\nThere was a walkout in protest, he ignored it and chose to keep going while scabs were hired.\n\nHe was pro continuing because he did not join the walkout and continued filming.", "If you would watch the video this thread is about, you will understand why that would not be enough.", "Ego has nothing to do with it. Every gun is loaded (hot) until you personally confirm it isn't. I expect anybody to do the same with me if I hand them a gun. I'm not some sort of infallible gun god. Nobody is. There's plenty of blame to go around here, but that final safety check would have broken the mishap chain and saved a life.\n\nThe armorer handing out a hot gun shouldn't have happened, yet they did. That's why everybody that takes possession of a firearm needs to be checking it's condition.", "Thank you for taking the time to write this out. Made me understand the whole process.", "hence the tin foil conspiracy", "Also blanks use a small wad of cloth to hold the gun power in. Sometimes that wad of clothes and fly out when the blanks are fired. Might bruise your skin if you are up close but won't kill unless it's some freak accident.", "I don’t think you read my post very well lol.", "THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USING A GUN AT A FIRING RANGE AND HUNTING AND USING A GUN WHILE ACTING. All you dumb shits spouting out the same dumb as shit general gun rules acting like your some super intelligent person can fuck off. The expert on set declares things safe and allows the actor to utilize the gun in a manner where otherwise it would be aganist the rules. You do not want people who are not experts messing with the gun after they are declared safe by the expert on set.", "So let me ask you this. \n\nYou are handed a gun you know that needs to be pointed at a human being. You know there will be dummy bullets in it.\n\nYou also know that there were accidental discharges of a fire arm in the past few days which made you think maybe gun safety protocols arent being followed.\n\nYou also know that the gun should be handed to you by the armourer.\n\nHowever, the gun was in fact handed to you by the 1st AD - a different person to well established protocol. A person who is not a gun safety expert. The gun safety expert, who is meant to hand you the gun, is nowhere to be seen. \n\nNow considering all this, would you just point the gun at someone and pull the trigger? Are there no red flags here for you? \n\nLet go of any bias or emotion you have with this controversial debate. Let go of your political leanings and answer this genuinely. Would you pull the trigger because you assume the 1st AD would have checked it with the armourer?\n\nDo you think its unfair to baldwin to suggest he should have at least asked why the 1st AD is giving the gun to him or where the armourer was?", "“The half-dozen camera crew operators and their assistants left the set of the Western over a dispute about working conditions, including long hours and low pay, three people not authorized to speak publicly told the newspaper.”\n\nHalf a dozen + assistants isn’t many. I’m sure others agreed but didn’t walk out. Of the half dozen and their assistants, who knows how many complained about safety vs long hours and pay. Things get conflated easily. \n\nThings are not black and white. Productive discussions require being able to have nuanced discussions instead of lambasting people.", "Armorer left weapons unattended and thats on them. Even with blanks and non functional bullets the weapons should always be attended.\n\nThe AD apparently grabbed the revolver from an unattended cart and gave it to Baldwin without go ahead from anyone in the prop department and told everyone it was a cold gun", "Blank rounds don't contain a projectile and can't kill a person at range...", "So that means the AD and the armorer are responsible here. The ad for being a reckless idiot and the armorer allowing it to even happen", "Right a procedure that has nothing to do with the actor.... And thus an actor can not be treating a gun as if it's loaded and pointing it at somebody and shooting it.", "Sure…mechanical failure of a gun can happen. I’ve seen this happen a few times. I’ve seen machine guns discharge from a broken sear, revolvers explode due to poor metallurgy etc. now, none of those resulted in injury as all safety procedures were followed. These were definitely accidents though.", "Even with fake guns, people should assume they will kill you like real guns. I can spray paint safety orange on the tip of my handgun and it will look like a toy, yet can still kill someone.", "Metal Co2 powered airsoft gun. The metal casing adds weight so it looks more realistic when being held by the actor, and the Co2 blowback can provide a form of recoil.", "The easy way to avoid this kind of thin is to have the person who is handling the gun to safety check it them selves. If they don’t know how to operate the gun then they shouldn’t be making a movie with it. The disabled rounds should have the primer and powder removed and a hole drilled in the side of the round. Opening the loading gate and spinning the cylinder would show a primed round. Single action army handguns can fire if the gun is not cocked and the hammer is hit from dropping the gun or something hitting it. Cowboys use to only carry 5 rounds in there gun to keep from accidentally shooting them selves. Terrible accident.", "lmao stay pressed", "First, you still keep saying \"check chamber\" and I *keep saying \"barrel.\"\n\nSecondly,\n\n>Cleaning the guns actually is the armorer's job. Brandon Lee's death was because the gun hadn't even been cleaned for two weeks since the gun had been used with improperly constructed dummy rounds for filming done in the fx department.\n\nYes! It is the armorer's job! Literally! The rules and regulations for this work came into effect because* of Lee's death. And clearly, they work. This is the first gun-accident related death in Hollywood since that day 28 years ago.\n\nThirdly,\n\n> There wasn't supposed to be any ammunition in Baldwin's gun at all, a \"cold gun\" in hollywood parlance is an empty gun.\n\nThis is wrong. Cold means that there's no live ammunition, meaning no blanks. It could still be loaded with dummy rounds, which what it should have been if it were a close up with the gun (which is a revolver in this case) in order to see the rounds in the chambers. If procedure was followed, a gun with dummy rounds would still be referred to as a cold weapon, which is why the AD announced it.\n\nAs talked about in the video, the normal procedure is that the armorer goes up to the AD, demonstrates a clear barrel with a rod, and then demonstrates that every round is a dummy round, and then the AD loads it, and then declares it's a cold weapon before going into the actor's hand.\n\nI admit, I hadn't watched the video until recently because I was in a setting I couldn't listen to it, so I was wrong about not being able to check for dummy rounds (apparently they're filled with bb's that you can hear rattling?) However, you can see for yourself that the procedure is perfectly safe when actually followed. There is no reason for an actor to have to do this checking themselves. \n\nIt is far *safer* to have a chokepoint at the armorer. One person who you are not allowed to do anything with any weapon unless they are physically present and have cleared it. The problem with this whole situation is negligence and willful disregard for the safety procedures, like the AD grabbing a gun off of an unmonitored cart and declaring the weapon was cold without the armorer present.", "A bullet stuck in the barrel from a misfire is called a \"squib round.\" A blank fired with a squib in the barrel fires it at high velocity.", "Reminds me of gags in cartoons where someone would store a jar of unmarked poison next to an identical unmarked drink or condiment. To do something like that in real life is insane.", "This took awhile to write;\n\nThis is a PR company in action people.", "hollywood pedophiles deserve to be shot. no big loss.", "ISTM Baldwin could also be charged as the producer of the film. One of the producers jobs is to supervise.", "What's just not true? One of the articles indicated that the armorer will typically load the weapon and give it directly to the performer who would do their own check of the weapon and the ammunition with the armorer. On other productions the armorer, stunt coordinator, first assistant director, and performer would all complete their checks of the weapon and ammo. It also appears that the original armorer left the production because of poor safety protocols.", "While I understand your stance, and what your trying to say - I simply don't agree with your assessment; that by not taking human's fallibility into account... that it somehow minimizes the danger. \n\nAccidents simply do not happen until a human has broken a fundamental rule of gun safety. They have either aimed the firearm at something they didn't intend to destroy, they placed their finger on the trigger, or they didn't treat the firearm as if it were loaded (and assumed it was empty). \n\nI fail to see how this does anything other than underscore the danger of firearms. \n\nAgain, the entire saying is rooted in the idea that accidents cannot happen until someone has made an error and broken one (or more) of the golden rules.", "Definitely not true (in regards to living in canada). Maybe in a big city you won't see guns but shot guns and hunting rifles are legal. Especially more so when you go more interior of canada, it's basically the wild west there.", "Wtf does that even mean", "Primer… if it was a blasting cap you would have certainly lost some fingers.", "Yes, I know. Ffs…s/\n\nGod you people are idiots", "I think he was referring to a reasonable person standard legally and not colloquially. It's a more specific and well defined legal concept. \n\nhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reasonable_person", "Yea which is why I said I had basically 0 chance. Me, specifically.", "They can be dangerous if the last round fired out of the gun didn’t exit the barrel. If improperly cleared the blocked round will exit when a blank is fired.", "You're right. Using a firearm on set is different. It's more dangerous. On any set involving guns they're intentionally pointing guns at people or things they don't want to put holes in. That makes it weird to me that safety protocol boils down to a single point of failure. Assuming that the person on set in charge of the guns is never ever going to make a mistake when all it takes is a simple distraction at the wrong time seems like a bad idea.\n\nLet me be clear here, I don't blame Baldwin for this. A gun was hot when it should have been cold, that's on the armorer. I also blame safety procedures that take it on faith that the armorer never makes a mistake when double checking just takes a few seconds.", "From what I've been reading elsewhere, the AD is in going to have to answer for this. He's the safety issue they were having on set.", "Should an actor be aware that only an armourer is allowed to hand the gun to them? Should a producer be aware of that? \n\nCan a producer/actor just assume that if any old clown hands them a gun, then it's OK to go?\n\nOf course the armourer is responsible for keeping an eye on his guns, but anyone on set who has to handle a gun should be made aware of the fact that they are supposed to get it from the armourer and to get verification from the armourer that it's safe to use. Perhaps that's not a rule, but it should be.", "It’s not a 1:1 because as a forklift operator you’re supposed to make sure the load is balanced. \n\nIt’s more like if you ran a 4 way stop because someone stole your stop sign.", "Seems pretty damn negligent to point a gun, loaded or not, at a human being. Anyone who has taken gun safety training knows this, and if he's handling a firearm on set, he went through that same training", "Your right lol.", "FWIW, I thought that you made that pretty clear…", "[\"I thought it was Skinny and Sweet!\"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpGw3rmctl4)", "Source?", "You can use a real gun, you just can't have a human behind the camera during the scene.", "Assistant…. Director. We’ve had a miscommunication", "Oh this guys great", "Shit happens. Which is OK when having a chat on the intrabutts.", "I couldn’t have said better!", "We get by with a little help from our friends…", "The gun he was using was SUPPOSED to be loaded. It just wasn't supposed to be loaded with live ammo. I swear, people commenting on this without even knowing the basics is absolutely wild. You don't know shit about this situation, but you've spouted off 300 words about it. \n\nThe gun was supposed to have dummy rounds loaded, but there was live ammo. Of course he wasn't going to check if the gun was loaded. It was supposed to be. \n\ndumbass", "This is unrealistic. Very rarely, brand new weapons can malfunction. I believe sig sauer recently dealt with some issues with one of their handguns malfunctioning (and even firing a round) in extreme rare scenarios when dropped in a certain way. \n\nSaying “loading old/malfunctioning firearms is negligent” is like saying “buying a heater for your house that malfunctioned and burned it down is negligent.” It’s just a very stupid and out of touch statement because there is no way for the user to know it was faulty… until it faulted. \n\nIs everyone expected to predict the future now?", "Great point. I would argue that using old, out of production rare rounds in such a large caliber sourced from a random seller on the internet qualifies as negligence.", "Less. In this context", "You can disagree with me all you want but if you pick up a gun, point it at a human being, and pull the trigger, you alone are responsible for the consequences because you pulled that trigger. \n \nOf course, the rules do not apply to the rich...so I won't be surprised if Baldwin isn't charged. \n \nBut if you are filming with your crew and you accidentally kill someone and try to blame it on someone else, nobody will care....you will be arrested and chared. Bet.", "I was under the belief that the union people who walked off did not include the armorer or anyone relating to the weapons. \n\nDo you have any source that the armorer when the incident occurred was a scab replacing a union armorer or is that just speculation/misinformation on your part?", "That’s well written, but one of the most complicated posts I’ve read on Reddit in my 14 years here, so congrats. Sounds like lots of shenanigans required to make a movie. One question though, what does CAA exactly do in your description? Seems like a 100% middle man. Don’t know what service they are providing in this example. Producers can go straight to Highland, no?", "Is it a rule/custom for the actor themselves to triple-check the state of the gun\n\nDepends on what you mean by \"triple-check\".\n\n The armourer or propmaster (not an AD) is supposed to hand the firearm to the performer in ready-to-use condition. That means either \"safe and clear\" if no firing is involved at that particular moment (like during this camera lineup), or \"hot and ready\": loaded with the correct number of blank rounds, and ready to fire on the director's signal. \n\nWhile the actor can certainly ask for verbal assurances from those responsible that the firearm is either safe or hot, the last thing a production needs is an actor taking it upon himself to physically screw around with an already-prepared firearm while the crew stands just a few feet away: waving it around, pointing the muzzle in unsafe directions, ejecting the magazine, racking the slide, ejecting a chambered round, opening the cylinder, resetting the cylinder to the incorrect position, perhaps accidentally dropping rounds in the dirt so they have to be replaced, etc. etc. \n\nThe most a performer should ever be required to do is flip the safety to \"go\" condition after \"roll\" has been called, and just before \"action\".\n\nI'm quite mystified how these people think Mr. Baldwin was supposed to have \"triple-checked\" that the pistol he was handed contained no real bullets - which should never have been brought anywhere near the set in the first place. Because the only way of confirming that would have been for him to open the cylinder, remove all six rounds, shake them one at a time to hear them rattle, then reload the pistol. And that's just nonsense.", "When a propmaster or armourer speaks of \"live ammunition\", they're inevitably distinguishing actual bullets from blank rounds. Because otherwise, we'd just call both \"ammunition\".", "Something I've never considered. If I wasn't retired, I'd look into it.", "I mean it’s still her job. Blame is definitely on producers (and AD) but if it’s her literal occupation and she is accepting jobs where it’s her job to be in charge of firearms safety then she is at fault as well. \n\nIf I hire a shitty electrician to do work on my house and he burns it down yeah I’m a bit at fault for hiring him but he’s still the one that accepted the job and fucked up.", "> At no point is it Baldwin's fault. Gun nuts [...] superstitious legends that you all follow \n \nImagine supporting gun control while simultaneously arguing gun safety isn't important for people handling firearms and real guns in some contexts are \"toys.\" \n \nThat is an absurd logical contradiction. Guns are either dangerous, or they aren't.", "When I was a kid I cooked hot dogs in my microwave", "None of which answers my actual question. Which part of that video was Monday Morning Quarterbacking?\n\nThat seems to be more what you are doing.", "Are you implying that if someone has enough training they are allowed to break the cardinal rule of gun safety which is to treat every weapon as if it’s loaded? Do you think because Keanu was highly trained it was ok for him to break this rule?", "https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-once-gave-unchecked-gun-to-child-actor", "I grew up hunting and sport shooting. I fully believe a wad from close range could do that kind of damage onbthe right firearm and barrel", "How haven't we distinguished \"live round\"? Like what idiot goes, \"Oh I don't know what live round means...let me put it in the chamber anyways. Cause it's in the bag labelled live rounds anyways...Hmmm...feels heavier, looks like lead or copper at the end anyways. Doesn't look like the crimped ones....eh...fuck it, goin in....\"\n\nIt's a fuckin bullet! a deadly, life taking, soul ending explosive metal projectile that took us from throwing rocks and spears at each other to ending a life instantly!!! And we still have people that can't distinguish live from fake rounds???", "Why not drop the hammer in a safe location/ direction on all the rounds in the cylinder first, multiple times to verify none of them were \"live\"... whenever there is competition events, they have safe discharge areas to drop the hammer to ensure the gun isnt loaded into a burm", "https://nypost.com/2021/10/24/halyna-hutchins-killed-by-rust-prop-gun-used-by-crew-off-set-for-fun-report/", "Those logos are even intensely negotiated in contracts. Down to how big they appear on screen in relation to other company logos and what order.", "I don't understand why every article calls it a prop gun if it is a real gun. \n\nIt seems to me that if a real gun is used everyone who touches it should have gun handling rules and regulations.", "I'm just an indie filmmaker who has been working inside this system for for a minute and trying to give context where I thought it might help.", "OR literally one singular person in a chain of like three people responsible for gun safety on set can just do the bare minimum of their job and no one dies.", "Texan here. Treat EVERY GUN as if fully loaded and ready to shoot.", "I asked a simple yes no question. So either answer it with a yes or no, or don’t waste both of our time even responding.", "Well, the fact is that a virtually real round did in fact kill Brandon Lee. There’s technicality, but a gullet did hit him from the barrel because DIY dummie and blanks were made from real actual HOT deadly kill-a-man rounds without validating that all of them were safe for set.", "Non functional guns are props. But how would you know that they're not functional in middle of a scene?", "That wasn't my statement. You're just being dense and trying to argue with people for some weird reason. The original question you asked was dumb and unnecessary.", "Shotgun shells have particularly powerful primers (\"blasting caps.\") There are target rifles that use the force of a shotgun primer to shoot a .177 caliber pellet.", "None of the things done in relation to firearms on this set make any sense.", "Son, I own one of these guns, I know what things are called. There are three types. Dummy, Blanks, and REAL bullets. thats it. Dummies are used when you want to SEE the bullet on film, blanks are used when you want to SHOOT the gun. REAL bullets have NO place in filmmaking. Am I being clear enough?", "No they are not. That’s the whole point of the expert armorer being on set.", "Do we know that the projectile \"went through\" the one woman? Or perhaps it simply ricocheted?", "The people who stormed the WH, tried to burn a gate house, were BLM/Antifa. Trump had to be evacuated along with his family and staff. Nobody held open doors. Those people didn't just stroll through the grounds. The leftist reaction was to call Trump a coward for evacuating.\n\nI'm going to guess you don't think there were any Antifa people trying to incite.\n\nI remember when Pelosi took the reporters on a tour of damage to the Capitol Building. She showed damage from bullets. Oh how horrible these insurrectionist Trump supporters damaged the sacred ground of Congress - a place where lowly citizens aren't supposed to tread. The protestors who entered the building didn't have guns. The FBI and Capitol Police found no guns. The only people who had guns were Capitol Police and Secret Service. Who did that damage, Nancy?", "Live round means a blank. Cold gun means it had a dummy round or no round at all. REAL bullets should not even come into the equation when discussing this.", "1. The fact that it's against the rules to use blanks at close range because of their inherent danger. So if you want there to be blowback on the gun without having to CGI the damn slide moving on every trigger pull, it has to be a fake gun.\n\n2. It's very easy to just look at behind the scenes of gun fights to see this is true. Here's one from [John Wick 2.](https://youtu.be/UXKy8di5lU0?t=126)", "And that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about blocking, which requires someone operating the camera to set up the way you want to film. Block it out with a prop, clear the camera for the firearm and the real take.", "Because the armorer that hands it to you and says so. \n\nThat's the point of the armorer. Assurances. If you get the gun from the armorer, you get to be 100% sure it is what they tell you so. They handle all gun safety on set so if you didn't hear it straight from them or they're not present, you know it's bullshit.\n\nWhich is why the AD just grabbing a gun off of an unmonitored cart and declaring that it's cold without the armorer present is such a huge breach of protocol.", "That's what I said. Armorer should be responsible for making sure guns are not capable of hurting others. That was my original comment.", "That requires the armorer's presence and following of the safety procedures. Much easier to grab something that is entirely and obviously inert just to do the blocking than to involve the armorer.\n\nI'm not saying it can't be done, but it just takes much more time and requires someone's presence for a process that just isn't that important. It's easier and more efficient to to just block without using a firearm at all and only use it for the real take.", "Sorry I was just responding to inbox without checking context. We're both talking about the same thing, disagreeing with the reddiots who think that everyone on set should be responsible for gun safety.\n\nWhich is technically true. But not in the way they think. They just need to follow the safety procedures.", "There was a design flaw with a well known gun manufacturer just a few years ago. If you hit it hard enough the wrong way (dropped it) it went off.", "Yeah, the danger blanks pose, if I'm remembering right, is about 5-7 feet, after that is relatively safe, and it's not so much a projectile is it is the sheer force of the gas being expelled.", "Anyone else getting the feeling that the union is astroturfing at this point?", "Uh, well, it actually isn't even remotely a logical contradiction if you know that the main point in which I would consider a gun toy-like is when they're at a range or similar place (even on your property, when properly set up, would count) in a totally controlled and safe environment. Do you still think there's a contradiction, bud?", "Like someone said, progun people tend to pretend gun safety will prevent any accidental gun injury or death and if something goes wrong, it's the fault of the user, not because guns are inherently very dangerous. \n\nI don't disagree with the safety rules and how people owning the guns are responsible for it, but not accounting for human error is a problem.", "It’s 2021, why the fuck are they still using real guns? Is the technology beyond us to make a replica? We are planning a trip to Mars, but making a realistic movie prop that looks like a gun is beyond us.This happens every once in a while and I always wonder", "In the most common situation that a 'prop' gun may kill people with blanks is something you would be almost incapable of noticing as an actor, and should not be expected to be able to find. (I think the situation is some sort of obstruction in the barrel, or similar concept)\n\n&#x200B;\n\nSo really, it's all ridiculous on the face of it. Why should an actor be inspecting the gun that was promised by an expert to be safe? Do nuclear scientists spend time inspecting their plutonium cylinders (see how little I know about nuclear science) even mere moments after it was inspected by an expert team dedicated to inspecting that cylinder? I really fucking doubt it", "Well, let's say that you had an expert team literally dedicated to handing you the gun that you shoot with. Would you really be inspecting it yourself every time they give it to you? Like, does that even make sense? What's the point of the team, really, if you're just going to do it yourself every time? It partially defeats the purpose of having an armorer to expect the actor to inspect the gun himself. Plus, the most common way a blank-firing 'prop' gun may kill is by having an obstruction in the barrel, hardly something that can always be easily detected by an actor, something the armorer is meant to be looking out for for a reason", "Blanks are still dangerous. It’s a projectile being shot out of a gun at high force. With some amount of gunpowder loaded in. Anywhere within 10’ is extremely dangerous. The camera team/operator should have been behind plexi. And wearing Kevlar if it was supposed to shoot. They say misfire and, obviously it was a discharge, so not sure if it was supposed to be discharged at all. Also does anyone know if she was operating or was she at monitors with the director? This is infuriating.", "CAA (agents) are 100% middlemen. They maintain their leverage by signing and representing all the talent (actors) in Hollywood. So, if you want to do business with their clients (that's every famous actor) -- you have to go through them and they get a percentage of every deal. Even if I know Alec Baldwin personally -- and I just go straight to him and ask him to be in my movie and he says yes -- the agent still gets a percentage of the deal just by being his agent.\n\nWild.\n\nBut it's important to know that talent agents are different than sales agents. CAA has both.\n\nIn Rust's case -- they're using CAA as a sales representative to help broker the best production/distribution deal possible. In theory, you go to CAA as an indie to use their resources to cast the widest net to procure the best deal for the film in town. So CAA will send it out wide and hone in on the best deal. \n\nYou could absolutely do this deal yourself -- and go straight to many companies, but you'll have better luck getting traction and actually moving forward with a behemoth like CAA behind your project. \n\nSo in a weird way -- agents like CAA are middlemen that open doors for your project. It's impossible to make a film in Hollywood without agents involvement. \n\nThere's so much more like packaging which is a big term in Hollywood right now -- I could go on -- but that's the nuts and bolts.", "Thanks !", "Why don’t we just walk everywhere and ban cars? would take much longer but as long as it’s safer.", "I was an extra in a low-budget made for tv movie a few years ago, and was present for filming a few gun scenes. The crew knew they were making a C movie, but the moment guns entered the equation, things got super-serious, with people loudly calling out the precautions and checks they were doing.\n\nI can't imagine how unprofessional and inexperienced the Rust crew must have been", "I just want to say that I came here to say the exact same thing, but you said it better. I read the explanation above, which I believe is well written and very helpful. Then I thought, from my new understanding, they brought Baldwin on to convince others to join. If he had cared enough about safety to walk, perhaps others would have listened there, too.", "A dropped shovel does dig a very small hole.", "I meant for the target practice thing. But this was interesting.", "Well said, thank you", "It's a good point that Halyna could've stayed home too.", "Yeah let them walk. Can’t wait to snatch up a department head position, get my friends hired.", "CG", "I agree with your historical example, fidelity to reality is important there in all regards. I don't agree with the second point, though I can acknowledge there would be people this applied to. For me I'm never going to be taken out of disbelief if (say) a revolver shoots ten times, or an actor racks a weapon for no logical reason. Not even on my radar.", "Hahaha. Fuck off snowflake, you are dumb. I dont argue with dumb folks.", "Yea, keep blaming others for your problems. It will get you far, millennial. \nFyi: I'm probably your age or close to it, I'm just not that dumb.", "Kudos to everyone who just treats this like the tragedy it is. Doesn’t try to joke about it, score points, or be divisive. Love you guys.", "I think we’ve heard enough from the experts, let me weigh in as an amateur. \n\n1st AD on a student film with some guns and pyrotechnics. I had no clue what I was doing. Thankfully all went smooth, but it certainly wasn’t from me doing my job right. Be safe out there guys.", "That's the point of having procedures though. It eliminates human error. You follow a very specific checklist every single time.\n\nIgnoring steps on the list is not \"error.\" It's a conscious decision to be lax.\n\nOf course, I say that, but by all accounts, the work environment on that set was considered to be very bad. One of the walkout crew members described it as \"rush, rush, rush.\" That can cause someone to skip steps on the checklist because they're working at a frantic pace. In which case it is an \"error\" but then the truth of that situation is that the problem is further up the line and isn't the problem of the safety system itself.", "Yeah. Gun safety rules have a lot of redundancy which is good because they largely reduce margin of error. But at the same time, if there are multiple people, there can be false sense of security where everyone expects other people to do their work and no one end up checking. (How many times you've heard I thought you were going to do xyz in day to day life...)\n\nThat's why we agreed that the armorer has to take ultimate responsibility for guns and everyone else has to check with them.", "A prop is any item which an actor can interact with. It isn't synonymous with \"fake.\" Real working guns can still be props.", "In what scenario would you point a fun and pull the trigger at your directors even if the gun was cold?", "Then he should be liable.", "In the case of Brandon Lee, it was a .44 Magnum bullet stuck partially down the barrel. \n\nInstead of using a dummy round, they were using actual rounds that they had removed all the powder from. They didn’t remove the primer, so the bullet was fired a short distance down the barrel. \n\nNo one cleared the gun (which would involve checking the barrel) and a blank round was fired, which propelled the actual bullet down the barrel.", "As well as the fact the cops found live ammo stored alongside blanks. wtf", "Nope, you don’t blame the server because they served a meal that the cook tainted.", "I don't know what happened, I heard the person killed was a cinematographer(?) so I thought maybe it was an action shot & he was firing into the camera or something. Whether or not it sure seems a more likely scenario than just leaving actual live rounds with the blanks on a movie set, which seems to be what has happened", "Yeah..just watched a YouTube video of a prop master who read the court docs. Regardless, I still think you can make the line of sight to be clear of the gun's aim. So sad.", "[Here is a video](https://youtu.be/qcHJajwkWyM) (1:39) of a squib load. He even goes so far as to rack the slide, which chambers another round, while having the previous round still lodged in the barrel. Had he pulled the trigger the gun would have blown apart. He's shooting reloads - not factory ammunition.", "I understand that real guns are called prop guns. I dont understand why real guns are ever treated like a prop gun. If it is a real gun it should be treated like a real gun by everyone who touches it or will be around it at all times.\n\nThe \"I didn't know it was loaded\" defense doesn't work for anyone else. Why would it be a defense on a movie set?", "This is a good point, but I think it's careless to expand the scope. As an example, a car is much more complex than a firearm, and more people drive cars than own guns.\n\nSome guns are complex, and can have parts overlooked even to a trained eye, I'll concede that one.", "A barrel bifurcating is usually reserved for long guns (rifles) but can happen with handguns. A handgun usually [blows apart](https://youtu.be/FWqu1YsRtpo).", "No strike, no scabs, simple as that.", "Then they should make the training publicly available. The union withholds this info so they can lay blame to non union workers when an incident happens.", "They could/should have used a real bullet, no powder in the casing, and a used primer. No way this type of round could have gone off.\n\nOr even easier, [buy these](https://www.amazon.com/Action-Pro-Orange-Safety-Trainer/dp/B094W1Y9VT) and paint the orange \"bullet\" to match the real thing.", "Yep same experience for me, I’m so sick of the union boys club. Their racist and sexist past is the worst part about the organization.", "The union withholds training and set safety to only benefit members.", "He is a o over the top pro union, don’t listen to this bullshit.", "That's correct. They mic'd the area to capture the sound of the blanks and kept it in the film instead of replacing it. The echos are very real.\n\n>Rather than dubbing in the gunshots during the bank robbery shoot-out, Michael Mann had microphones carefully placed around the set so that the audio could be captured live. This added to the impact of the scene, because it sounded like no other gunfight shown on-screen.", "I’m not sure. When this guy was talking he referred to a “live round” as a bullet with a slug that can kill you. A blank does not have a slug or a projectile in it. He also said no live rounds are ever kept on set and that that rule was breached. They would definitely keep blanks on set for when they’re doing gun shots. So having blanks wouldn’t be a breach. I also don’t understand how a blank could have killed her. I know from extreme close range a blank can kill someone but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here. She got shot through the stomach. \n\nI could be wrong but it sounds like there was a real bullet in it.", "This isn’t about non union or union, stick to the facts.", "They would NEVER use live rounds for a close up.", "I have dummy rounds, used for training, that have rubber where the primer would be. It helps protect the firing pin. No dimple from a hammer strike. It's black but could be easily colored to match a real primer for a movie set.", "true", "That’s not true at all.\n\nI have 10 years experience on set not a single injury other than my back pain. \n\nOn my first and only union production earlier this year with both ITASE and SAG I was electrocuted by following a union members orders. Unsafe conditions due to non standard equipment and pressure to get the lights rigged is what nearly took my life. Fuck the union.", "There are people in the comments blaming non union workers for this, it’s ridiculous.", "The last someone died on set from a firearm in Hollywood was 28 years ago. That was the second time it happened. And that created the rules and regulations we have today that continue to prevent this kind of thing. The fatality that occurred the other day was the third time in all of Hollywood's history.\n\n486 Americans died in 2019 due to unintentional firearm injuries. That's 16,200% more in a single year than has *EVER* happened in the history of Hollywood.\n\nI daresay their gun safety is better than yours.", "Lmao, imagine getting downvoted for speaking the truth. You're totally right.\n\nThe article doesn't allude to this procedure specifically, but almost every one opens with the fact that the AD declared it was a \"cold weapon\" before handing it to Baldwin. That means that there should have been no gunpowder inside of the gun.\n\nThey were not filming a scene that had a blank. It is more than likely that they were blocking out the action of the scene before filming it.", "Which he readily admits. \n\nBut he is also saying how standard protocol is supposed to work.", "In John Wick, Reaves actually spends a fair amount of time clearing jams in the gun during action sequences. I have to wonder how much of that would need to happen if he isn't actually firing something.", "Actors are stupid and I do not trust them.", ">The union withholds this info so they can lay blame to non union workers when an incident happens.\n\nThis is factually incorrect. The safety training programs (for me in Canada it was [ActSafe](https://www.actsafe.ca/courses-certifications/), [MPIO](https://www.creativebc.com/community/education-and-careers/sb_expander_articles/319.php), and [WHMIS](https://worksitesafety.ca/product/training/online/whmis-online-training/)) are all available to the general public. It's true that specialized courses about film-specific skillsets and tools are offered by the union, but they are not mandatory in the same way that the safety courses are.\n\nIt would be quite the predicament if mandatory courses for union membership were locked behind union membership, would it not?", "> (I think the situation is some sort of obstruction in the barrel, or similar concept)\n\nI'm guessing so as well. Because of the overpenetration of the projectile (through the DP's torso into the director's shoulder) I would go so far as to say I expect this to turn out to be exactly a Brandon Lee case. I just don't see a random bit of debris getting that much penetration. I have full bets on it being a real bullet lodged inside the barrel that was then pushed out by a blank to cause the fatality.", "Who is blaming the gun? And where?", "According to the video in this post, the shot was of the gun pointing directly into the camera lens. Because it was a revolver, the chambers needed to be loaded with fake bullets otherwise the shot would see the gun is entirely empty. According to the video, the chambers were to be loaded with \"non-firing\" bullets or bullets that look exactly like live rounds, but do not have gun powder in them.\n\nSo, now, please explain to me how a guy that doesn't know anything about guns is supposed to \"clear\" the gun and be able to tell with 100% certainty that the fake bullets are not actual real bullets. If he is expected to be the final arbiter of gun safety on set, then that is just idiotic.", "\n>Would you really be inspecting it yourself every time they give it to you?\n\nYes. 100% yes. \n \n\n>does that even make sense?\n\nYes, because people are people, and people make mistakes. \n \n\n>What's the point of the team, really, if you're just going to do it yourself every time?\n\nBecause I too am a person and I too make mistakes. \n \nThere is no excuse for this incident, period. Baldwin is a producer as well as an actor on the film and there had already been 2 other accidental discharges on the film, as a producer failing to correct that is on him, as an actor failing to consider that fact and just blindly trusting the same people who had already screwed it up twice is also on him.", ">In the fast, right, cheap equation, humans pick fast and cheap most often\n\nWell said. \n\nThis is the explanation for a lot of serious problems we face today, from construction that leads to building collapses, to software that causes a plane to nosedive. It wouldn't be hard to come up with more examples...", "Rack the slide? You do get that this was a period piece and it was a 19th century revolver, right?", "At least two people didn't (the armorer and the AD), But also almost certainly the director and probably others as well.", "They just delay trainings. I signed up for a course after 2 years of waiting and it was canceled and substituted for a specialty training. \n\nNow my local needs members and all the crews I work with on commercial work won’t touch it. It’s for the losers who enjoy shit jobs like sitting in condors, I’ll pass.", "How about you go fuck yourself chuckles? They had already had 2 accidental discharges on set before this one, at that point if it were supposed to be dummy rounds I'd have been rolling through all six pointing at the ground before doing anything that would point it anywhere near a human being.\nOf course, as a producer he should have already addressed the safety problems.", "I imagine if they printed \"horseshoe malfunction resulting in entanglement with the reserve bridle\" people would still just be like \"Oh… so it didn't open?\"", "Because \"normally\" at \"point blank range\" a blank is totally lethal. That's the thing about it - there is no \"usually they are alright\" - they kill people the same, and saying something contrary to that only leads to some idiot shooting someone with a blank.", "That’s why the test is the mythological “reasonable person” and not “typical American”. As you say that would be no bar at all.", "You are right and I agree. In my comment immediately after I wrote the comment you are replying to, I say this:\n\n> There next argument is the argument that baldwin should have checked the gun himself. I used to think this was the case until I saw this video. If the check was a simple check to make sure there is nothing in the chamber, its a simple and quick check he can perform himself. So Id lean towards maybe he should have personally checked the gun himself. But this particular scene required bullets in the chamber. What was baldwin suppose to do when there is meant to be bullets? Was he meant to then unload the gun, shake the dummy bullets to hear the bb sound and rearm it?\n \n> Now this is where the first argument against baldwin's responsibility becomes relevant. The first argument is that this is not baldwin's job. I think this is the strongest argument in discharging any argument of his liability. If it was a simple check to make sure there were no rounds, that would make sense. But here, the check is a more labourious process of shaking bullets and hearing sounds. This job is for the armourer and the 1st AD. With the 1st AD saying that it is cleared, I think it was reasonable for baldwin to not personally check the gun, assume the test was done or make further enquiries.\n\n&#x200B;\nI actually go further and comment on the common saying of \"never point the gun at someone unless you are wanting to shoot them\".\n\n>There is a lot of talk about never pointing to gun at someone you dont want to shoot. But here, baldwin is meant to point it at the camera (and therefore the DP). There is nothing baldwin did wrong here. \n\nI do eventually still arrive to the same conclusion that he still has \"some\" responsibility in all this and it does relate to the final check point you make. I dont know what that \"some\" would look like in a court of law. its just a conclusion I arrived to with the set of facts I can find now while applying legal principles of negligence law I learnt from law school.", "That's simply untrue.\n\nYou can look up videos on YouTube. Shooting a blank from an assault rifle, zero range, doesn't even mark a piece of paper.", "Street smarts!", "It can’t have been a blank. Because blanks only shoot out gas and at most wood shrapnel from a mock bullet. No way that could pierce someone from a distance and end up harming another.\n\nMost likely scenario seems to be that the gun was supposed to be loaded with a blank and hopefully prop rounds for close up shot. Rounds somehow got mixed up and instead of a blank and real looking prop rounds the gun had a blank and real rounds. After the first take a real round was chambered. \n\nBut if they really were playing that fast and loose with guns on set, I wouldn’t be surprised they loaded a blank and real rounds on purpose, but I really hope not because that would be stupidity beyond belief.", "> How about you go fuck yourself chuckles\n\nPresumably grown man responds to having his error pointed out", "The armorer did not point the weapon at another person, nor did they pull the trigger. The armor's alleged negligence is on focus, but Alec Baldwin shot her.", "I think people, including myself are confused because while I know a blank round can be fatal, from my understanding of firearms and physics it's near impossible for a blank round to pass thru someone's body killing them, and then critically injuring a second person.", "More like an old man who is tired. I'm tired of you stupid people on here taking up for a bunch of fools who got somebody killed because they couldn't be bothered to follow the simplest of safety rules that ships with every gun manufactured. \nWhat kind of idiot blindly trusts people who have already caused two live fire incidents on set?", "Oh, well you're obviously dishonest and lying. No one would have a team or expert dedicated to inspecting their weapons and would then waste time constantly inspecting the weapons. It's simply impossible for someone to believe that, as it makes absolutely zero sense and goes against every single idea of logic and reason. I know, you're a conservative, so logic and reason are optional in the face of your reverence to your superstitious legends regarding guns and how they can be loaded by fairies or witches\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThere is no excuse for this, but it isn't because the actor didn't do the thing he isn't supposed to do. It's because the AD and/or armorer failed. That's the end of it, and you sure as hell won't see my name responding to you ever again.", "In general, yes, I completely agree with the rule that you never point a gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy. However, that's not always possible on movie sets. A lot of the time, actors HAVE TO point guns at other people otherwise we wouldn't have realistic action sequences. \n\nWhen that happens, you hire experts and have a team of people ensuring that all gunplay is done safely. If you think actors need to do \"a final check\" of the gun for safety, then you have no clue how film sets work. Should they also inspect their harnesses before stunts? Check that the carabiners are rated for the correct kilonewtons of force that will be applied during this fall sequence? Should the actors be the final people to check that the 2 ton light fixture above their heads is properly rigged so none of the lights fall on them? What about the car flip stunt with the pressurized pneumatic piston charge? I'm guessing if that thing misfires and injures the stuntman, it's his fault because he didn't get under the car to inspect it was armed correctly. \n\nThere were people on this set hired specifically to ensure cast and crew safety with respect to firearms. Baldwin was hired to read lines and act. When given a gun and told to point it at the camera and pull the trigger, actors will do just that, especially if they've been told it is safe to do so. The people that were actually hired to be in charge of safety, failed miserably and someone died due to their negligence.", "He is over the top pro union in his videos but not when it comes to the people his company hires.", "\n>Oh, well you're obviously dishonest and lying. \n\nNo, I'm simply well trained in the use of arms and not an idiot. \n \n\n>goes against every single idea of logic and reason\n\nNo, what goes against logic and reason is trusting experts to never screw up when it's an undeniable fact that they screw up all the time. I feel for Baldwin, he's going to have nightmares and mental trauma from this for years to come, but that's exactly why you check and recheck this shit over and over again, because when you don't people can die and you have to live with it. \n\n>I know, you're a conservative,\n\nNow you're reaallly putting your foot in your mouth, and it's insulting. I'm neither a conservative, nor a liberal, nor a libertarian, or any other such bullshit, and the whole reason to check a weapon is because they can be loaded by plain old fallible human beings. \n \nAll three of them are at fault, no matter how you slice it. Have a nice day.", "> Baldwin may do jail time.\n\nYou clearly don't know much about the law, or the chain of custody for firearms on movie sets. \n\nActors have no business opening and checking prop guns, they are not trained to do it and may fuck it up in a way that puts others or themselves in danger. \nIt is the armorer's job to ensure that an actor is given a prop gun appropriate to the situation, it would be grossly negligent for there to be an assumption that an actor should make such checks.\n\nJail time...", "If the armorer had left the set, why didn't they remove the weapons like they are supposed to?", "> Should they also inspect their harnesses before stunts? Check that the carabiners are rated for the correct kilonewtons of force that will be applied during this fall sequence? \n\nOn any other day, No. And complex questions like these cannot have a broad rule - it should be fact specific which is why negligence cases are always very fact dependant. \n\nIf the armourer and the 1st AD checked the dummy bullets in front of baldwin, no, i wouldnt expect him to do another final check. \n\nIf the armourer handed the gun to baldwin, no, I wouldnt expect to do another check. \n\nBut none oft these things happened. From baldwin's point of view:\n\n&#x200B;\n\n* the 1st AD handed him the gun which is a big breach of protocol (the armourer should have). baldwin has done more than 90 movies over the course of 40 years - this should have been a red flag for him\n* baldwin knows that the 1st AD is not a gun safety expert. so now, we have a non-gun safety expert breaching a gun safety protocol handing the actor a gun that will be pointed to a living human being\n* the armourer is nowhere to be seen when the gun is handed over, which is another red flag\n* baldwin is aware of 3 accidental discharges and gun safety complaints on set - another major red flag that maybe protocols are not being followed. \n\nSo now we have a non-gun safety expert handing a gun to the actor in breach of protocol with the gun safety expert nowhere in sight and where baldwin already knew there were previous instances of accidental discharges and the scene is one where he must point the gun to someone. baldwin knows all of this and knows all of them as red flags.\n\nNow the question is - what ought a reasonable person do here with all these gun safety red flags? Be honest and let me know what you would do. FWIW, I ABSOLUTELY would have done more. I have done more with fewer flags that werent even red for things that arent even risking lives. If I see something that looks out of the ordinary, I dont care if thats not my job Im going to call it out or get people who know what they are doing to take a look.\n\nI am not arguing that any and all actors must always be the final check on gun safety. Im not even arguing that they physically check the gun. Im arguing that in this particular situation with what baldwin knew, maybe he oughta at *least ask a question to the 1st AD.\n\n it doesnt require gun expertise\n* it doesnt take more than 2 seconds\n\nSome potential questions:\n\n* why are you handing me the gun instead of the armourer?\n* where the fuck is the armourer?\n* did you check the gun for dummy bullets?\n\nIf the 1st AD told the truth, then baldwin would have realised no checks were done. If the 1st AD lied and said the tests were in fact done, then baldwin really couldnt have done anything more. That's it. Asking questions - not checking guns and doing things that the gun experts do. Just asking questions.\n\nThere is a concept in negligence law called being \"on notice\". It essentially means if you are presented with red flags, then a duty is placed on you that normally doesnt, to quell those red flags. Baldwin in any other day may not have such duty but on this day at that moment, he was confront with many red flags which in my opinion, puts some responsibility on him to make enquiries to quell those red flags. Not a lot of effort - just questions like the above.", "if you were the armorer you'd be blaming others for your problem. for the job you failed to do. \n\n\nyou're literally just wrong, it isn't even really debatable.", "So you are comparing tools, which only purpose is to murder someone, to a car. A transportation vehicle?", "Yeah we see how good that works. People are dead.", "What kinda bullshit argument is this? The problem here is that real guns could easily kill someone if there was a mistake. If you simply use a realistic toy, then there won't be any corpses at the end of the day.", "First rule of gun safety is check it yourself, don't trust someone's word that it's unloaded.", "Then shut up.", "The AD should have never given the gun to Alec. Alec's been an actor 40 years and he should know that, he's partially at fault.", "Does the AD normally hand the gun to the actor? If not then it's partially Alec's fault for accepting it from him.", "This is 100% about union vs non union. You are clearly not paying attention to the situation", "Lol careful not to get your brain in a knot there champ. \n\nWe were discussing the word \"live\", which you thought writing it in all caps made it more than a blank lmao\n\n> Not this time, they were target shooting with LIVE rounds. Cops found them along with blanks", "What on Earth? Fucking HOW????", "I dont see a single person advocating for that based on this incident Do you. If so where?", "That's certainly interesting how wrong you are", "Turns out they weren't filming, they were getting set up to film and Alec Bladwin was practicing the scene when it happened.\n\nNew information that contradicts the 'may have been filming' statement was released.", "Indeed it baffles me so much.... the typical production budget is what several millions? A high end replica gun is what... maybe a few grand?\n\nHell to me I don't get why even blanks are needed. would seem to me the actual gunshot can be played in post.", "Yikes. Give the actors a bright orange rubber gun like the give military guys their rubber duckies.", "You're showing a lot of ignorance for the way that the movie industry works.", "So edit it, already.\n\nSigned: the Postmaster", "I think the key word is malfunctioning tbh. You can def have old firearms that are in perfect working order. If you maintain your weapons and know them well then you will also know when something is wrong that makes them unsafe to use. Imo you should not have weapons loaded and in use unless you know them well and know them to be functioning properly, to do otherwise is negligent.\n\nThe fact that you shoot your weapon regularly says that you do your due diligence to know your weapon well, and to know it's functioning properly. You are a responsible gun owner.", "I agree, rarely new weapons can malfunction. If you own ANY weapon you intend to load and carry then you are responsible for knowing that weapon is safe to use as designed. You are responsible to go to a range and learn your weapon well. You are responsible to KNOW your weapon BEFORE using/carrying it in an uncontrolled environment. You are reponsible to ensure it is properly holstered, stored, carried, etc to prevent \"accidental discharge\". If you go buy a gun, immediately load it and press it into service with ZERO experience with that weapon you are NEGLIGENT. And if you drop your gun, guess what, just like dropping a baby, NEGLIGENT.", "Good for you, you discovered your weapon was unsafe, and stopped using it. That exactly what you are supposed to do....preferably making the discovery in a controlled environment like a range. Ideally after the first accidental discharge you went to a range to try to replicate it...if you didnt and it discharged again in an uncontrolled environment you were negligent.", "You can tell the story without making shit up and actually trying to be good at your job. Look at all the confusion they’ve caused using misfire and live rounds. Now there’s a million more people walking around more misinformed than they were.", "Guns dont suddenly become dangerous. If you own a gun you intend to carry then you are responsible for knowing that gun is safe. That means get your ass to a range and fire it a bunch BEFORE carrying it. The chances a gun suddenly becomes unsafe after you know it inside and out, clean it and maintain it properly, and test it with some regularity at a range are pretty much nil. On top of that the mere choice to carry that weapon is the choice to assume 100% responsibility for that weapon under your control. If you can't be sure your weapon is functioning properly you shouldn't have that weapon, period...it is negligent to not be in 100% control of a firearm.", "There isnt. The term \"accident\" is designed to remove blame from a negligent act. It doesnt negate negligence, it just excuses negligence. People make mistakes, sure, but they are still at fault for their mistakes. If you choose to carry a weapon then you assume 100% of the responsibility of carrying it. .just as choosing to drive a car makes you 100% responsible for what that car does.", "Keep on commenting too! You're clearly incapable of understanding the structure of movie production.\n\nYou're lecturing someone who grew up with guns, and you're speaking to me as if I'm clueless about gun ownership - when in fact I am probably MORE strict than you are.\n\nBut, you're neglecting the context and situation of gun use as movie props.\n\nI'll be right when the lawyers determine liability here. Spoiler alert: it isn't the actor.", "> It was the twelfth day of a 21-day shoot, and the cast was rehearsing a gunfight that takes place inside of a church. The B-camera operator was situated on a camera dolly, looking at a monitor with Hutchins and Souza both nearby. The scene involved Baldwin's character removing a gun from its holster and pointing it towards the camera. While the trio behind the monitor were repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm. When he removed it from the holster, at approximately 1:50 p.m. MT, the prop gun dicharged a single time and the projectile flew towards the trio behind the monitor, striking Hutchins in the chest and Souza in the clavicle.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident\n\nDummy rounds are “cold”", "No one yet. Just watch. Its coming.", "You could easily read what is stamped on the back of the casing, many of these dummy rounds also have primers that have a somewhat specific look due to the fact that they are not real.\n\nIn this incident, open the cylinder, visually identify the cartridge. This is too easy...with a little proper education of course. \n\nIt costs more money to do things safe though - this will slow down production and require additional training on top of what they do now. Would be simpler (cheaper) to do it the way they do it, and pay out on a lawsuit when they murder someone on accident once every few decades 🤷‍♂️", "Every car accident takes 2 people fucking up. There is not a single car accident in history that could not be prevented by one or both people taking proper precautions and driving defensively.\n\nThere are very fringe cases like first time seizures or heart attacks, but your analogy breaks down there because operating a gun take fractions of a second and operating a car takes minutes to hours. If a first time seizures causes you to pull the trigger, you already had your finger on the trigger. If you have your finger on the trigger and don't intend to shoot, that's negligence. If your gun goes off without you pulling the trigger, guess what, also negligence.", "Oh no, did I offend your feefees? Please don't shoot me Mr badass.", "Sure.\n\nI've also worked on project where mistakes cost astronomical amounts of money and time and simply aren't an option. The amount of care, rigor, and testing involved with mistakes can't be made is insane. I whole heartedly expect gun owners to operate with that same level of rigor whenever the gun is outside it's gun safe.", "Good to know that live rounds shouldn't be on set. I was thinking that when I saw the news story about the shooting. \"Why did they even have live rounds when filming a movie!?\".", ">Would be simpler (cheaper) to do it the way they do it, and pay out on a lawsuit when they murder someone on accident once every few decades 🤷‍♂️\n\nYou're implying that they were following current protocols. Which they weren't, if they followed the proper protocols this would not have happened. It was not the protocol that failed, it was people failing to follow the protocol.", "Agreed. He's definitely culpable but will likely never even see a court room unless it's due to a civil suit.", "Dummy rounds are not blanks........ They are inert rounds that look like real rounds... they are not live rounds. Did you even watch OPs video?", "Following those rules, not laws btw, no guns could ever be used in any movie. Multiple protocols have been broken for this to happen. Had existing movie set rules been followed she would be alive.", "I'm suggesting additional protocols to mitigate when there is human error. Major incidents like this happen when the stars align and more than one human makes a mistake. (The armorer and assistant director both mistook the firearm as clear in this incident)\n\nThere is a reason there are multiple redundancies in many applications where safety is paramount. From what I've learned about how firearms are handled in film production I believe there is room for more redundancy. This production was particularly complacent but I think the point still stands. Feel free to continue to downvote my perspective if you'd like.", "😘", "What kind of idiot comes in to this story 2 days after the fact and criticizes Alec Baldwin for not checking if the gun was loaded?", "I’m all for that. I work in (digital) incident response and one of the most important steps is to learn from an incident and adjust protocols and procedures to prevent them from happening again.\n\nWhat I don’t agree with is to put blame on Baldwin when current protocols did not make him responsible.", "Seems pretty cut and dry to me", "Your first ever malfunction should happen on a range or other closed environment while you are getting to know your weapon. There is no negligence when you are literally confirming its safety in a controlled environment. After the range you clean your weapon and inspect it, like a responsible gun owner, to ensure its functioning as intended and that there are no dangerously worn components. If it malfunctions in the field there is a 99.99% chance you didnt properly learn about and maintain your weapon. Learning about it includes reading up on your weapon periodically to discover dangerous design flaws. If you do as you should as a gun owner then you wont have \"accidents\" \n\nWhen you chose to arm yourself you also choose to take full responsibility for that weapon. Thats how it works.\n\nNow for drops...if you drop a baby thats negligence, why would dropping a loaded firearm be any different? Its in your control, so control it.", "\"What I didn’t know is that the SLAP round I put inside it was extra, extra hot. … These rounds are extremely rare and they’re very old. They’re like $100 apiece. These aren’t manufactured anymore and there’s no way you can really know what’s happened to them overtime as they’ve passed hand-to-hand.”\n\nHow is this not negligence...willful negligence at that. He knew the risk(or should have) of loading this old, unknown provenance, round into his weapon.", "And touching an unknown weapon carries risks...if you touch it without knowing what you are doing then you are negligent. How is this an \"accident\"?", "If you dont take your weapon to a controlled environment, like a range, for testing(and then cleaning and inspecting after, before too actually) prior to loading and carrying it then you are negligent. A gun isnt a toaster, its a killing device...treat it like a killing device.", "The kind who has other things to do and didn't see this shit on here for a couple of days. \n I didn't criticize Baldwin until these morons on here started saying it was all the fault of others. The armorer and the assistant director are both at fault for their actions in getting a loaded gun into Baldwin's hand, but Baldwin bears responsibility as a producer who is on set and knew about the other incidents and knowing about those other incidents and then failing to check his gun also definitely makes him responsible as a person, just as any other shooter is responsible for the consequences of a negligent discharge when they pull that trigger.", "Rule #1 of gun safety:\n\nThe gun is always loaded, especially when it isn't.", "As a gun owner you are responsible for testing your weapon and getting to know it inside and out. This means go to the range, shoot it a bunch, clean it and inspect it, and keep up with any currentliterature on it so long as you plan to carry it...and when you do carry it you make damn sure its secured so that it doesnt drop. The chances your weapon will have an \"accident\" you cant predict are damn near zero if you are responsible with your weapon. There is no excuse for not knowing all there is to know about a killing device under your control.\n\nIf after all of that you somehow manage to have a gun discharge on you then i guess its an accident, and you might win the lottery too. Good luck proving it...and if you cant see it coming then maybe you shouldn't own a gun.", ">99.99% chance\n\n\n\nHere is where my entire argument lies. The more a gun is fired on movie sets, the closer we get to that 0.01%. This shooting on the set is extraordinarily rare - maybe it was the 0.01%.\n\n\n\n\n\nDropping a baby isn't remotely the same as a gun discharging unexpectedly. That's more like the baby vomiting out of nowhere and blaming the holder for being negligent. Sure, sometimes a baby is fed something crap that makes it throw up, sometimes they just throw up out of nowhere. That's about as far as I can stretch this metaphor I think!", "Dropping a baby is the same as dropping a gun, get it right, im only talking about dropping a gun.\n\nGuns dont just go off without cause. There is ALWAYS a reason a gun discharges, and always a way to prevent it. That 0.01% of times guns \"accidentally\" discharge was absurdly generous, probably more like .0001%.\n\nEdit: this movie set discharge 100% WAS negligence, at least several times over. There was a live round chambered, the armorer didnt secure the gun, the AD grabbed a gun without proper procedure, baldwin either didnt receive firearms training or ignored it, etc...there were a lot of problems on this set with regards to this incident.", "You had time to write a few hundred words on the topic without reading the fucking basic details of the situation, dipshit. \n\nOnce again, the gun was supposed to be loaded. Dipshit.", "I don't know why you're talking about dropping a gun, we were talking about the gun misfiring on the set.\n\n\n\n\nI'm also not arguing that the discharge on set was NOT negligence, the chances are really high that it was, I'm just saying that \"loading a malfunctioning gun is negligent\" is only fair if you know the gun is malfunctioning beforehand which sometimes you can't or don't for any number of reasons.", "Hmmm, from your comment history it appears that you are simply here to troll and insult. And call me kid? LoL\n\nThis middle aged woman doesn't need your condescension, old man. You, however, need to watch your screen time, get some exercise, and eat more vegetables. Enjoy!", "I mention drops because thats usually the go-to for \"accidental\" discharge, just covering the bases.\n\n\"which sometimes you can't or don't for any number of reasons.\"\n\nPlease enlighten me with even 1 reason that this could happen that isnt directly a result of negligence.", "> So if a performer (presumably without the training or expected responsibilities of the armorer/propmaster/etc) is handed something by a professional and told it's safe, it's not their fault if the other person didn't do their job properly and something goes wrong.\n\nI'm sorry, but that just seems so incredibly wrong. Like the guy said in the video above, these are real revolvers. I don't care if the Good Colonel Cooper himself hands me a gun and tells me it's been made safe, I'm going to check it before I handle it or point it at anything, especially a person. \n\nI understand that the production crew is the main fault here, but the man holding the real life gun has to take some sort of responsibility for what happens while it's in his hands.", "None of the articles I saw said it was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds. Also, even if it were supposed to have dummy rounds in it only a fucking dummy would have pointed it towards people and dropped the hammer after two negligent discharges on set. It doesn't hurt the gun or dummy rounds to dry fire it so point it at the ground and go through them. \nSo why don't you go hang with the rest of the morons defending Baldwin's negligence because I'm done.", "That's crazy. I wonder why millions of people are walking thousands of miles to get into an inferior country? \n\nDon't be mad because your wooden shoe wearing country hasn't ever been relevant at any point in time.", "Baloney! It is the job of everyone that holds a firearm in hand to visually inspect it. Everyone. Every time. No excuses. Full stop.\n\nA lady is dead and you’re literally telling everyone to keep skipping the simple step that would have saved her life. You are part of the problem.", "Your movie set protocol is a dangerous cop out that contradicts the the universal principles of gun safety. And you’re making an indefensible argument for LESS safety. It’s embarrassing.", "This lady is dead. But people asking for actors to look at their guns for 2 seconds before pulling the trigger makes you furious. Have you no decency? No humanity?", "look in the bucket in your bathroom. if you need more directions repeat as needed.", "Yeah two people in like 80 years of film and tv production, and one of those two by a freak accident that is now not possible. So basically one death out of tens of thousands of shows and movies with guns. I’d say it works really well.", "No need to be rude, it's called a hypothesis.", "Agreed on most of that but dropping a gun isn’t negligent lol. Maybe if you pull it out like an idiot and drop it in like a Walmart or something sure, but what if you’re doing some high intensity training and you drop it? Happens all the time. \n\nIt’s impossible to know a weapon is going to malfunction from a manufacturer defect until it does. It’s really rare but there is literally no way to know a model is faulty until it happens to someone.", "What the fuck are you talking about?\n\nA school shooting that ended with the death of first graders didn't get us mandatory insurance. This isn't going to cause any changes at all to gun laws. \n\nMovies already have insurance around these types of incidents. And as fast as I can tell, liberals are blaming the hiring of scabs, not lax gun laws. \n\nStop listeninf to the little voices in your head and start listening to what is actually happening in this case.", "Fuck copyright laws!\n\ntl;dr\n\nA set decorator cleaned out a pawn shop to stage a pawn shop scene on set. The armorer noticed that some of the objects purchased included boxes of live ammo. Armorer removed them and stored them in his locked car. Later the armorer decided to make \"dummy rounds\" (to look real for close ups but not be able to fire) from the live ammo but forgot to deactivate the primer on one, so it was a \"squib\" waiting to happen. During a closeup scene someone dropped the revolvers hammer on this dummy and a couple people reported hearing a pop but weren't sure what it was (primer pushed slug into barrel). Weeks later the same revolver was loaded with \"full flash\" blanks for a scene but the barrel wasn't checked for obstructions (wasn't standard practice at the time). While surely some gases escaped out the revolver gap, the slug was still propelled with enough force to hit and kill Brandon Lee.\n\nUltimately, too many people made mistakes along the way so no one person was considered at fault and no attempts at prosecution were made.", "Stop selling guns. Problem solved.", "With such well-thought posts, how could one argue with that? Just grow the fuck up.", "Where are you doing high intensity training with a loaded firearm that isnt an insanely controlled environment where all parties are aware and consenting to the dangers involved? Yeah, that sort of situation is not negligence, thats calculated risk.\n\nIf you are NOT involved is such training and you drop your weapon you are negligent...just as youd be negligent if you drop a baby in your care. Get a proper secure holster, dont get distracted while pulling ut out or handling it. You are reponsible for that gun. Treat it like the deadly weapon it is you mook.\n\nAs for faulty brand new guns...nope, get your ass to a range with it, clean it, inspect it BEFORE carrying it loaded. Know that shit inside and out such that YOU are comfortable that its safe to be carried. If YOU cant have that 100% assurance that it is safe to carry loaded in the wild then YOU are negligent.", "Though you could say he always practices pun safety.", "> the main point in which I would consider a gun toy-like is when they're at a range or similar place [...] in a totally controlled and safe environment. Do you still think there's a contradiction, bud? \n \nYes, that is a logical contradiction. A gun is absolutely not a toy at a range because it still has great potential to kill a human being. If you mishandle it or \"play\" with it, even for a split second, someone could easily end up dead. This is a property mutually exclusive with the [definition of a toy](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toy) and is something that Baldwin (and hopefully everyone) has now learned the hard way. \n \nIf you go up to a range safety officer (RSO) and you tell them you believe guns are toys because they are at the range, you will find you are no longer at the range. \n \nGuns have the potential to be lethal in all contexts and to believe otherwise contradicts the very predicate of a rational argument for gun control.", "Well Baldwin was a major producer so I would place greater responsibility on him than I would the average actor who would be in that situation. \n\nHowever I completely understand and respect your point. You don't want an employee to be sued over criminal negligence when they are simply doing what they are told.", "Oh word. Not tiger belly", "You never heard of a single-car accident?", "touche, once mentioned my memories returned that that was the primary purpose...still, didn't they obstruct the barrel?", "I'm a woman. It's not sexism to call out truth. Have you seen her tiktok account?", "replied to the other response, you are 100% correct...remembered as soon as I read your reply. that being said, would it not also obstruct things leaving the barrel as a side effect? honest question, can't recall exactly how they looked/worked and it's been a few(several) years...", "I'm a woman. Looking at her tiktok account, reports of her last interview, she was clearly not the most responsible, mature person. I know I've been hired for jobs over more qualified candidates when I was young, cheerful and sexy. It happens. It's not a myth spread by sexist incels.", "I'm a woman. Looking at her tiktok account, reports of her last interview, she was clearly not the most responsible, mature person. I know I've been hired for jobs over more qualified candidates when I was young, cheerful and sexy. It happens. It's not a myth spread by sexist incels.", "Right, not sure what responsibilities he had as a producer but yes as a producer he may take part of the blame, but not as the actor pulling the trigger, if you understand what I mean.", "I guess in theory it would, but keep in mind that if there was anything substantial in the barrel it would not end well. like if a squib round left a bullet projectile in the barrel it would probably blow right through and bust out the BFA or if not something else would rupture somewhere, possibly the end of the barrel.", "eat a bag of rotten dicks, billy mcJerkface. who asked you or your whore of a mother what either barely thought?", "Does baldwin stand to profit from reduced production costs? That's the question that matters. I believe you provided that answer. I think it was a yes", "That’s not what the point was. OP said a blank is also considered a live round bc it has a primer and powder.\n\nAlthough elsewhere a live round is differentiated from a blank. \n\nWhat Baldwin shot had to have a bullet given it went thru the camera, the director and hit another person.", "No. The gas tube is about midway down the barrel. \n\nRemember ever removing the hand guards. Usually always a bitch. Anyways. The gas tube is on the top. It feeds directly into the bolt assembly. \n\nBlank adapter only seals the barrel opening.", "Good question. It’s a more detailed conversation than I can give here — and I’m not an accountant— but when a film is financed there is a chain of title and stipulations on who gets paid when and in what order. Fanciers get all their money back (whatever they invested) first, plus whatever “points” they had on the film.\n\nPoints (or a percentage of profit participation) are given to creative crew members as an incentive to join a project. They are recouped based on the how much money the film makes. You may have heard the old gross vs net receipts conversation. You always want the gross, not the net. Because Hollywood accounting is shady and they’ll say the film wasn’t actually profitable when it was. Some of the Harry Potter films did this. The studios claim the movies lost money on paper and therefore they cut backend profits to key members. It’s awful.\n\nIn very basic terms — there are 100 points on a movie. Think of it as a pool broken in to two pools of 50 points. One pool is for the financiers and one is for the producers/actors/director… sometimes the writer and even on indie films you’ll see the cinematographer and the editor get points. But if the film offers you 5 points. That means you get 5 percentage points of 50% of the profits. In other words — 2.5% of profits. If you 2.5% of gross profits on Dune, the big movie that just released this week — so far you’d have about 5million in the bank. \n\nSo points are a big deal.\n\nFor Baldwin — he gets paid a flat fee when production begins for his labor (as actor and producer) and then, depending on where its sold, he gets profit participation based on how well it performs at the box office or on VOD etc. Netflix is infamous for not paying residuals. So if it sold to Netflix, Baldwin would only have his upfront fee and not the 5million in residuals. You can see why filmmakers were reticent to sell their films to Netflix without a theatrical release.\n\nAnyway, It’s way more complicated than that as Hollywood accounting is one of the shadiest forms of accounting you will ever see, but generally speaking Baldwin would see no benefit in having the production budget lower because he gets paid regardless of the budget number and lowering the budget number actually lowers the quality of the film and he needs the film to be as good as it can be so that he stands a chance at getting residuals. \n\nThe financiers pay themselves back first and take all their cuts before actors do, so they benefit from cutting corners because saving money before selling the movie brings them more money back into their pockets immediately. Penny saved is a penny earned. \n\nTL;DR: Hollywood accounting is complex.", "Nowhere near the power of a chemical explosive, and to get close it’d probably empty the tank in one go and be just as dangerous as a blank….\n\nIn the end if you want the recoil force you have to provide that amount of force- newton’s third. The force comes out the front one way or another.\n\nNow they DO make guns where the barrel narrows so a bullet won’t fit and they are fitted with attachments that allow them to cycle without one. However, this was an old school revolver.\n\nHowever it seems none of that is relevant here, as this was a shot of the gun, and it had fake LOOKING bullets because you can see the bullets in an old revolver. This is why you don’t have real bullets around that can be mistaken for the fake bullets. Remember, the fake ones have to look just like real ones. It seems there were people there using the vintage gun after hours to play cowboy and mixed this up…\n\nNow since this was an old school revolver, a hammer on the back sets off the visible bullets. If a real bullet was mixed in with the fakes, the gun can go off with any strong flick of that hammer. \n\nHe was apparently practicing drawing it, a gun which he expected to have fake but real looking bullets in it, and you can flick the hammer on an old gun like that if it was cocked somehow and fire the bullet. That’s why in westerns you see them SLOWLY lower that hammer down when they decide not to shoot someone… you don’t even need to pull the trigger if you let it slam down.\n\nThe biggest thing is to NEVER HAVE REAL AMMO and have someone who knows how to tell the fake bullets apart (usually by shaking it, fakes rattle) who can verify that the bullets are fake.\n\nEveryone is focused on blanks and why that etc., but it seems the problem here was with the need to have fake bullets while people brought real ones to the set and no one checked which was which or stopped this.\n\nEven Brandon Lee’s death wasn’t as much the blank as the poorly made fake bullet that had gotten stuck in the barrel from a previous shot where you needed to see the bullets.", "A principle my old man wholeheartedly abided by.\n\nDad's long gone now (he died 10 years ago this year, a few weeks short of his 82nd birthday). In his time, he served 17 years in the MoD Police and was trained as a marksman (and a coxswain on MoD police launches). Donkey's years ago (late '60s/ early '70s) when me and my younger brother were boys, he supervised both of us shooting (wait for it... ...) a Webley air pistol at a target 30 yards away. \n\nMe and my brother would've had \"fun\" were it not for our old man who made it absolutely plain to us that you do NOT wave an air pistol (let alone a rifle) around, let alone point it anywhere near someone, unless you've checked that there isn't a cap waiting to go... and even then, DON'T point an empty air gun at or near anyone.\n\nSome people might consider air pistols and air rifles as toys, but they're no such thing - they can seriously wound and, sometimes, kill. I've never owned an air pistol or rifle, let alone anything that shoots live rounds, nor do I want to; but what my old man taught us when were boys remains: before you pick any gun up, check EVERYTHING. TWICE.", "Oh, it's literally not a logical contradiction because I did not say \"A gun is a toy and a gun is not a toy\" which is the only way logical contradictions can be proven to be formed. I did not say that, I said \"A gun is a toy in some circumstances, and a gun is not a toy in other circumstances\", that isn't contradictory anymore than any other similar statement which exists and is accepted.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThe danger of a toy is rather irrelevant for the definition, it just implies that it's an adult toy. I use the definition that a toy is \"an item which is designed for the purpose of being played with\". It is possible to play with a gun, and if they are meant for range usage only, then they are designed for use as an item to be played with. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI mean, just be honest with yourself, stop pretending that gun nuts are special operators. When you go to a range, you go there to play with your guns, and that makes guns toys in that context. Its danger is irrelevant.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIf I tell a range officer that I am playing with guns on my day-off, it has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not I should be at the range. If you frame it as \"I treat this gun as a toy\", then he will make assumptions that you do not know what you're doing, but when you frame it as \"I am playing with these guns\", it is easily possible that you wouldn't get a second look, as going to a range to play with the guns is the literal purpose of going to the range most of the time.", "That is not what manslaughter is.\n\n\"The killing of a person without malice aforethought but with either the intention to commit an unlawful act that leads to an unintended death, or with an otherwise murderous intent that is extenuated by some partial defense, such as acting under the influence of an extreme emotional disturbance occasioned by a substantial provocation on the part of the victim.\n\nThe killing of a human being by a human being, or of men by men; homicide; human slaughter.\n\nSpecifically—2. In law, the unlawful killing of another without malice either express or implied, which may be either voluntarily, upon a sudden heat, or involuntarily, but in the commission of some unlawful act. \"", "This is not manslaughter. Manslaughter involves while committing an unlawful act.", "Is it under the commission of some unlawful act, though, if the discharge of a live round was entirely accidental?", "There’s all sorts of things written into contracts that make it difficult for him to do that once shooting has already started. It’s more complicated than you think. And Alec Baldwin - as famous as he is - doesn’t have the kind of clout to walk out during production without facing any repercussions.", "I never claimed it to be the truth. I literally said that it was a theory. So go fuck yourself, asshole.", "And you think the crew who did walk off the set have more clout or would be facing any lesser repercussions to their careers?", "> 25 points on the film\n\nWhat does this mean? Is that the size of text in the credits?", "They could try to argue violating the safety protocols was unlawful, somehow? I think Negligent Homicide would be better. A willful negligent act (violating safety), that lead to someone dying.\n\nINAL, not sure if that is the right term.", "> I use the definition that a toy is \"an item which is designed for the purpose of being played with\". \n \nYes, I suppose when you move goalposts by making up definitions for words instead of using the Merriam Webster definition of \"toy\" I already linked above, anything is possible. \n \nLook, I am flying a spaceship to Mars! \n \n> spaceship - a smartphone with low battery \n> Mars - the charger on my nightstand \n> flying - something being moved by my hand \n \nIt is amazing how pliable Truth and reality are when you use your imagination. \n \nStill though, even by your own definition, a gun is not a toy. Guns are not \"designed for the purpose of being played with,\" they are designed to kill efficiently for hunting or self defense. \n \nThe idea that one could support gun control but not gun safety is a logical contradiction because both ideas extend the same predicate, that guns are dangerous. Claiming they are \"toys\" for the purpose of \"play\" contradicts this predicate.", "Oh, but those redefining of words you made up are nothing like me describing a toy as \"something you play with\". Do you need help?", "I appreciate learning about other viewpoints, but a [definist fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definist_fallacy) followed by an [ad hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) shows you are arguing in bad-faith, likely because you either have no point or are incapable of defending it. Bye.", "[Definist fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definist_fallacy) \n \n >The definist fallacy (sometimes Socratic fallacy, named after Socrates) is a logical fallacy, identified by William Frankena in 1939, that involves the definition of one property in terms of another.\n \n[Ad hominem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) \n \n >Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. The most common form of ad hominem is \"A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong\".\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Desktop version of /u/kj4ezj's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "Also, if we’re making negative assumptions on the armorer’s competence based on quantity of jobs, then it’s fair to make a positive assumption of her competence based purely on the fact that her father was a successful and well known armorer. \n\nI agree with your conclusions u/Cpt_Tsundere_Sharks", "I’m not saying the producers don’t share responsibility, in fact the first half of my comment implicitly states the opposite. The part you quoted I’m just saying they’re weighting that aspect too heavily. Shit flows uphill sometimes, but someone’s gotta push out the first turd, and that’s the person hired whose job was specifically to maintain safety with firearms on the set.", "I'm using a fallacy by...defining a word in a way that offends you. Stop being so triggered. You seemingly do need help because basic reality is too difficult for you to grasp, and you have thought-stopping techniques where you just say \"Bye.\" and leave when someone calls you out on your absurd logical failing", "The problem here is they had every warning and decided to ignore them. Yes, there's a person whose job is specifically \"to maintain safety with firearms on set\", but on this set, [real bullets were there](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/10/rust-shooting-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins). They were shooting beer bottles, and the camera crew walked after they'd already had misfire incidents. With live, real ammunition. Which has zero purpose being anywhere near a film set.\n\nAt that point, both the AD and the armorer should have been fired. The AD himself was [fired off another show in 2019 for a gun misfire](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/rust-shooting-ad-dave-halls-fired-2019-freedoms-path-1248337/).\n\nInstead of taking the camera crew's concerns seriously, they escorted the camera crew off set, then hired non-union staff who was even less likely to complain.\n\nIf you're hiring someone to do a job whose only purpose is safety, and they're a major cause of liability, you don't get to excuse yourself by saying \"hey I didn't know\". Quite obviously, they did.", "your reply is nearly 70% qualifier. just fucking say what you wanna say.", "hell yea lmao", "Sorry — that’s confusing. I see where you went with the text size/points. Negotiating how big an actor’s name appears in the credits is a thing that you have to negotiate, but in this case I’m talking about points as in the percentage of profit participation. \n\nOn a film — there are 100 points of profit participation. They break down that 100 points into two pools of 50. One pool is for the financiers and one pool is for the actors, directors, producers and key creative team. So 1 one point equals .5 of a share of profit because of the pool split.\n\nSooooo. \n\nIf you’re Brad Pitt and you’re asking for 25 points that’s 12.5 shares of the profit. And you always want to negotiate for points on the gross profit, not the net… because the accountants can change the numbers after adjusting for net out of your favor. \n\nBut let’s say Brad Pitt got 12.5 shares on a movie that he made that grossed 100M. That would be 12.5M in his pocket. A big share. \n\nI work in the independent space more, so I’ve never seen what someone like Brad Pitts’ points look like on a 100M film, but 25 points on an indie film to the lead actor is unheard of. The most I’ve ever seen given out is 12 (6%).\n\nHope that makes sense.", "Thanks! It makes sense.", "Why was there live ammo on set at all? Have they mentioned how that even got in the vicinity?", "Careful, you can get shot for saying things like that in America.", "Also no primer in the dummy rounds, right? And I read on another thread that as an alternative to the BB's some dummy rounds have a hole drilled in the side of the cartridge.", "But, he's literally the one that pulled the trigger. He's the last stop, which should be the most important. Would we be having this same discussion if it were a different weapon? If it were a knife or a bat? Would we not expect him to test to make sure it wasn't a real knife? Real easy thing to do. Live ammo and blanks are pretty easy to tell apart. He would have needed to spend five seconds to check. \n\nI would compare this to the \"it's just a prank, bro\" videos on YouTube. Just because you point to a camera and say it was for a movie doesn't mean you don't face repercussions. Saying it's an \"industry standard\", doesn't mean that standard is ethically or legally justified. Why can't actors be responsible for things that they do that might kill someone? I'm not saying they need to be experts but maybe at least knowledgeable enough to stop things like this. This isn't an attack on you but just me countering some points I've read on here.", ">But, he's literally the one that pulled the trigger. He's the last stop, which should be the most important. \n\nThe last stop is the armorer before handing the prop weapon to the actor.\n\n>Would we be having this same discussion if it were a different weapon? If it were a knife or a bat? Would we not expect him to test to make sure it wasn't a real knife? Real easy thing to do. \n\nYes, we would, because it's the armorer's job to make sure the talent isn't handed anything dangerous.\n\n>Live ammo and blanks are pretty easy to tell apart. He would have needed to spend five seconds to check. \n\nChecking isn't his job. It's the armorer's job.\n\n>I would compare this to the \"it's just a prank, bro\" videos on YouTube. Just because you point to a camera and say it was for a movie doesn't mean you don't face repercussions.\n\nThese situations aren't even remotely comparable. The only things they have in common are that both activities result in video footage being created.\n\n>Saying it's an \"industry standard\", doesn't mean that standard is ethically or legally justified. \n\nIt is an industry standard because those in the industry believe it's ethical, and I can guarantee you that it's legal. Production companies can afford very good lawyers.\n\n>Why can't actors be responsible for things that they do that might kill someone? I'm not saying they need to be experts but maybe at least knowledgeable enough to stop things like this. This isn't an attack on you but just me countering some points I've read on here.\n\nBecause if an actor is worrying about their prop, they're not focusing on acting. That's why we have armorers.", "Thanks for writing that all out. I just feel like we are treating actors with kid gloves. Like they are special and play with different rules than everyone else. \n\nIf the last stop is the armorer, then that's saying the actor has no personal responsibility. Like they aren't even a person. Like they are above everyone else and don't have to abide by laws. How many regular people can shoot someone and claim that they thought they were shooting blanks?\n\nA nurse has to verify the medicine she gives before she administers it. She can't just be handed it and told it's something. A pilot can't fly a plane with a big hole in it and blame the mechanic. The pilot should have checked the plane before he took off. He's the one that decided to fly the plane. But an actor can get away with not checking a real gun if it has real ammunition in it. A woman died and I don't think \"focusing on acting\" is a good enough excuse.", "I mean you can think it's not a good enough excuse all you want, but that doesn't change the established precedent of an armorer being the one responsible for ensuring safety on set.\n\nYour example of a pilot not inspecting their plane is actually a great example in my favour - it isn't a pilot's job to check and make sure every single system on their plane has been maintained. If all engines spontaneously fail due to a mechanic making a mistake, and there's no safe landing area in gliding range, it absolutely isn't the pilot's fault if some or all of their passengers die. Their job is to focus on flying the plane safely, not on the minutiae of engine maintenance. If their support team fails to provide them with properly maintained / set up equipment, it is their job to do their best to recover the situation in the aftermath of that equipment failing. It is not their job to double check the work of every single support worker before taking off. Like yeah they do a pre-flight check from their cockpit, but they're not stomping around the tarmac sticking their heads in the engines.", "What an argument, you realize the people you’re referring to “walking thousands of miles” to get into your country are doing so because their countries have been destabilized by the useless drug war the US has been waging for over 50 years and the countless coups the US government has supported in South America simply to get rid of left leaning leaders. You’re bragging about how your country ruined others and because of that the refugees of said ruined countries have only one stable place to go to. But sure pal the U.S is the greatest country in the world, amazing social services and safety nets for workers and businesses alike, amazing tax structures, no government bloat and absolutely no lack of oversight to be seen……oh wait nevermind. Let your patriotism blind you some more Im sure it’ll help make the U.S even better", "Oh yes, Central American countries being shitholes is 100% because of America and the war on drugs. You're a moron, and The United States is better than whatever half ass bitch country you're from.", "What a response, central america is in the direct pathway for drugs to get from south america to mexico into the US. Why would they not be affected by the drug war? \n\nBut since you’re such a fucking moron I’ll give you a little history lesson, The US government used to prop up and support capitalist slave states in Central America during the early 20th century. \n\nThey did so because it kept food that could only be grown in that climate like bananas, fruits, sugarcane and coffee cheap, the reason it was so cheap is because these countries were run by companies and not governments and the people were mistreated and simply used as employment fodder. The US helped these banana republics (This is where the word comes from) take over and hold central america simply to stop abunch of communists that were never there. \n\nThis long term exploitation leads to generation poverty which in turn leads to people trying to leave Central America as refugees. My half ass country seemed to actually teach history better than US education if I have to explain any of this to you.", "Send them to a gun range instead.", "Sorry I still don't see how this is fucking possible." ]	2,488	videos	Professional propmaster talks firearm protocol and what went wrong on the set of "RUST"
https://youtu.be/ldVnimhJLQc	/r/videos/comments/qemaip/manage_your_followers_follow_by_tag_by_location/	[ "upvoted bro thanks", "Interesting", "Did it all again... Showing love to everyone.. Give love and get love ❤✌", "Good info", "rad" ]	5	videos	Manage your followers \| Follow by tag, by location \| Unfollow everyone with one click 999
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qemdbx/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qemdbx/deleted_by_user/	[ "You misspelled Celine Dion", "How could you be so wrong?", "This is clearly Cyndi Lauper.", "Um, isn’t it spelled Cher?", "I prefer The Bangles' version.", "If only OP could turn back time" ]	6	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy4FXhkm6Nw	/r/videos/comments/qemkk6/bust_a_move_young_mc/	[ "I forgot that Flea was in that video.", "Oh man, when I was like 12 I had the biggest crush on that girl in this video. I busted more than a few moves, I'll tell you that!", "The 90's were fun", "Me too. She reminded me of California girls and my love for the sun, waves, and surfing.", "Sir, this is the 80s.", "89 ok we're going to call that the 90\"s\n\nIt won the 1990 [Grammy Award for Best Rap Performance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Rap_Performance)\n\nThe single was certified Platinum by the [RIAA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA) in the U.S. in January 1990.[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bust_a_Move_(song\\)#cite_note-2)", "Man, I swear it was like 87 or 88.", "Like Will Smith, he never said a dirty word.\n\nGod I miss ol skool hip-hop, it was so fun!\n\n-edit- Will Smith, Summertime (1991)\n\nhttps://youtu.be/Kr0tTbTbmVA\n\n-edit- Self Destruction (1989 and an all-star cast of rappers)\n\nhttps://youtu.be/MmX5TgWsfEQI\n\n-edit- Also, deadly serious. Public Enemy, By the Time I Get to Arizona (1991)\n\nhttps://youtu.be/zrFOb_f7ubwu\n\nHuh, that last link might be being censored by Reddit, it won't load for me. It works on YouTube." ]	8	videos	Bust A Move \| Young MC
https://youtu.be/hSWlwM4s1Ds	/r/videos/comments/qemxdh/science_room_with_jason_sudeikis/	[ "Cringe", "My wife is a teaching assistant. Pretty accurate 😅", "We get it. You don't appreciate snl.", "The ones with [Adam Driver](https://youtu.be/nCbYtKW2BNo) and [Sam Rockwell](https://youtu.be/yOqm_UzL26w) are also great.", "As a parent, I feel this in my soul. The frustration of trying to lead my kids in the right direction just to have them miss every single goddamned que!" ]	5	videos	Science Room with Jason Sudeikis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryhn3m474DY	/r/videos/comments/qeneu1/the_trailer_for_the_first_live_action_spiderman/	[ "Technically it was a pilot for a television series — I guess you’d call it a “made for TV movie” — it never showed in any movie theaters in theatrical release as far as I know, though I could be wrong I guess … I mean I was ten years old when this happened. Marvel movies are so commonplace now it was such a HUGE deal when this show came out. We didn’t care at all how bad the SFX were, or that they were using film going backwards to achieve the web-slinging … our imaginations filled in everything else. Of course anyone older than about ten had a harder time doing that understandably. I know people always tsk-tsk the “kids these days” and all of that but I don’t mean to come off that way. I always wish I could take a whole classroom back in time and let you really feel what it was like to live during the summer that Star Wars came out, and Spider-Man was on TV and all that. It was a really special time to be alive and to be a kid. It felt like everything the adults were doing was FOR the kids. I couldn’t frickin’ BELIEVE it when stuff like this came out … I couldn’t believe that there were adults somewhere who were actually getting paid to make stuff that seemed so focused on kids having more fun … crazy. I know it looks TERRIBLE now, but at the time this stuff was incredible.", "I think corporations were finally putting 2 and 2 together after seeing the success of Star Wars on the youth. Lets see should we make a movie for kids so we get the parent and the kids money for a ticket or just the one from the grown up? Now 40 some years later the top grossing movie series: you guest it Marvel. The Marvel movies like Ironman, Spiderman, The Avengers are now the highest grossing movies of all time. Thanks for digging this old shtuff up it sure is eye opening as to what entertained us back then as to what we see now.", "Love the webbing gently cascading onto the bad guys", "This was the TV series. It was both awesome and lame when I was a kid. They actually had a guy in a Spider-Man suit ‘climbing’ the sides of New York skyscrapers for the stunts.", "Did every guy in the 70s run the same way?", "There are some on the [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/23the.amazing.spiderman.the.deadly.dust.)", "It was the cut of the clothing that gave it a specific look, but to answer your question, yes.", "Holy fuck that was awful.", "Jesus that Hallway fight scene was gold", "When he swung from that pole onto that building in the beginning, that shit looked real", "It was real. The wall-crawling was done by pulling him up the wall with a cable as he pretended to climb. You can find pics of the stunts being done online I’m sure.", "It was released in the UK theatrically, I saw it when I was 9!", "I remember seeing this as a kid. It was a massively disappointing experience." ]	13	videos	The trailer for the first live action Spider-Man movie
https://youtu.be/bmE71zNpHjY	/r/videos/comments/qenmhz/antihomosexuality_psa_1950/	[ "I don't agree with the PSA but it's interesting how people thought back then.", "Jimmy remembered to Tuck and Cover, thwarting the homosexuals advances.", "It's a historical curiosity for sure.\n\nWhile it gives what is in general solid safety advice, the whole thing can be summed up with \"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.\"", "This is from the time of \"the greatest generation\" and when baby boomers were growing up. Not surprising at all to see this kind of \"PSA\". Two generations of ignorance and stupidity wrapped up into one, it's no wonder we hadn't had much progress during these times and us younger generations are fighting to explain how same-sex marriage isn't the end of the world to these stupid, ignorant, disgusting fucks.", "Statistically they should be a lot more wary of pedophiles who aren't homosexual.", "Sorry what?", ">I don't agree with the PSA \n\nWell thank you for clearing that up.", "Is it wrong I don’t think this is too terrible advice. Young men should be warned about older male advances. \n\nI think Jimmy was DTF though.", "And older female advances. And older anyone advances. Just replace the word \"homosexual\" with \"sexual predator\"※ and it becomes good advice.\n\nThe problem is these people thinking the two terms are synonymous.\n\n( ※ I hesitate to use the word \"pedophile\" because that word has been so misused to mean \"person with an anime profile picture\", etc. that it has almost no power anymore.)", "Yeah I think that’s the problem.", "> The current estimated prevalence of homosexual pedophilia is anywhere between 9 and 40% (Hall and Hall, 2007); the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was approximately 1.4:1 among men with CSA offenses in another study using phallometry (Freund and Watson, 1992)... Victim surveys show that a female perpetrator was indicated by between 14 and 24% of sexually abused males (Green, 1999)\n\n[Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/)\n\nWhich is kind of confusing? Because how can 75% of male victims have a male perpetrator, but only 40% of male pedophiles be homosexual? I guess it's more to do with power than sexuality. Still confusing.\n\nBut yeah. Science says homosexuality and pedophilia are crazy high linked.\n\nWhich explains the negative stigma of the era.", "Even if you selectively read \"between 9 and 40%\" as \"40%\" instead, that (along with the next cited study) still suggests the majority of male victims were abused by people who aren't homosexual. [Here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8008535/) is another study that supports that.", "You're welcome.", "Right.", "Yet another reason to skip church", "Ok well I'm 3 against and you're showing 1 for.\n\nFucking... this is why I hate science. Science is stupid and complicated and I have no idea what's going on. \"Do pedophiles have a higher rate of homosexuality relative to background population?\" should not be a hard question to answer.\n\nFuck.\n\nI'm gonna say... Maybe you're has a smaller sample size of only 76 boys?\n\nIt's also got a really weirdly worded conclusion.\n\n> The children in the group studied were unlikely to have been molested by identifiably gay or lesbian people. \n\nSo it's not determining whether or not the perp WAS gay, just whether he was identifiably gay? I'm not sure what value that has over the former.\n\nLike... If the perp was a guy, and molesting a boy, but the boy didn't previously \"identify\" him as gay, would that result have gone into the \"he wasn't molested by an identifiably gay perp\" bucket?\n\nMaybe the point of this study was \"Don't treat your gay relative as a threat, because most of the time you're kid will get molested by the guy you don't think of as gay\". Which... uuugh science.", "Against and for what, exactly?" ]	16	videos	Anti-homosexuality PSA (1950)
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qeo3aq/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qeo3aq/deleted_by_user/	[ "Yes we made this to keep the culturally obsessed Americans out", "Imagine working on something for 13 years just for someone to name it by keyboard mashing.", "I finally have found out where the vowels come from when contestants on Wheel of Fortune 'buy a vowel'. They are stolen from the Netherlands.", "The idea behind it was hilariously simple. Coastline is vulnerable to flooding, so they figured they'd just reduce the amount of coastline.", "It's because in dutch you can just combine a bunch of words together to make a new word. It means ''close-off dike''", "Ya, a lot of Nordic-germanic isn't as tricky as it seems because what looks \"OMFG\" is really 3 or 4 distinct words", "uh what?", "Nordic-Germanic is kinda redundant since Nordic is Germanic", "true, though Nordic is worse at the word combos IMO than german is. or at least to us english speakers, they seem less decipherable.", "Here it's only two words too, afsluit (closing off) and dijk (dike). Really not that complicated.", "It was brilliant in it's simplicity really.", "while afsluit is a single verb, you could also argue that afsluit is also 2 words combined (af and sluit) so it's kinda 3 words in one" ]	12	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/CM0aohBfUTc	/r/videos/comments/qeo770/veritasium_a_story_of_youtube_propoganda/	[ "Thanks for posting this again. More people need to see this. And more people need to realise that just because someone online seems to be innocently enthusiastic about what they do it doesn't mean they won't try to manipulate you for money.", "I really dislike this trend of things that are disguised as informative videos that are actually really subtle ads at the best of times, or straight up misinformation at worst.\n\nIt's very sinister because unlike advertisements between shows etc, most people can't tell they're being worked over.\n\nEconomics Explained is another channel that's like this. There's an entire sub dedicated to the sheer amount of misinformation and half-truths in his videos.", "Personally, I'd be much more wary of anyone trying to hide ideas and thoughts from me than any individual or group trying to push their ideas on me...regardless of the good or bad faith of those ideas. \n\nCensorship of bad ideas is still significantly more destructive than the pursuit of those bad ideas." ]	4	videos	Veritasium: A Story of YouTube Propoganda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul9HIX9YBbM&EvI	/r/videos/comments/qep8v7/why_moths_are_obsessed_with_lamps/	[ "https://youtu.be/YxD3pT8C9-A", "Because lamps are hot.", "'Cause the light was on..." ]	3	videos	Why Moths Are Obsessed with Lamps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwMuEBhgNNE&ab_channel=ShelseaO%27Hanlon	/r/videos/comments/qepm49/mom_accidentally_ate_marijuana_bread/	[ "It feels like LST!", "I love her.", "marinara bread", "lol its LSD. (i'm guessing you were just joking.)\n\nI totally know what she means too. Weed is psychoactive and when I smoked the first time on some really good shit I was having the most vivid closed eye visuals. One time I was also seeing things in like doll house effect type of way. Kinda like everyone was so small if they were far from me and it seemed like my vision stretched them further away from me. its was really odd. \n\nBut that was before I started taking psychedelics. After I took mushroooms and lsd everytime I get super high, like if I take a whole week or even 3 days off from smoking, I will get so high that it feels like i'm tripping on LSD or mushrooms. I will start to see waves like when i'm on lsd and even the paranoia comes back as well. So if she has ever had lsd before then I can 100% believe that the edible she ate had her almost tripping balls. Hell I stay away from edibles because they keep me high for way to long and yet I takes dabs like they are nothing.", "Never go to the hospital, they can do nothing for you.", "Haha she's precious 😂", "My goodness it feels good seeing a non political, non Covid post. I’ll always take a fun stoned grownup video.", "She says LST in the video", "Well they can give you a $5,000 bill.....", "Not sure if this has happened to anyone else but if I was completely fried caffeine would bring me down maybe it was psychosomatic or something but my buddy said it used to work for him also.", "If you think that’s what LSD does I don’t think you had it either. In terms of body high edibles and lsd are quite similar (depending on the dosage), you just don’t get any other visual type of stuff effects. The whole pink is elephant on LSD is a myth, you’re more likely to just get moving geometric/flowing patterns", "I love the part where her relief at eating half a slice turns into horror of potentially eating a slice and a half! So wholesome!", "The best part is the 'half' is half of a whole loaf. Did g-ma really just eat half a slice, a slice and a half, or half a loaf?", ">In terms of body high edibles and lsd are quite similar (depending on the dosage),\n\nYou've also never taken LSD, or have some tainted edibles. Those are not similar feelings.", "I love that it went from a slice to a slice and a half.", "Too bad she didn't have you around to kill the high.", "Could still experience the paranoia and anxiety inside at the same time. \n\nAlso whats bad about saying weed can cause paranoia for someone? It does for me, but I love it.", "LEGALIZE MARINARA", "But whos bread was it? Where did it come from??", "Man the body high after peaking on LSD.....its the closest any of us will ever get to heaven.", "Why are you bringing covid into this.", "That LST line is the exact thing my mom would say. She jumbles her words like crazy.\n\nMy mom was actually interested in an edible for MS pain. I said OK, you've read up on it, right? It could take an hour or more to hit to you. She said she knew it all.\n\nedit: it's a LOOOOONG story what happened next. It involved non-shop calls, and in the end, my mom didn't like it AT ALL. Her mind was still more closed on things than I thought.\n\nShe ate it. She knew I had to leave. My dad was there, and I told her to call me if she had any real problems.", "Good for her, the adventure begins", "God, I love her.", "And then what happened?!? Don’t leave us hanging!", "That could be sub on its own. Just people trying to cope after edibles. I bet most of them would be pretty fun.", "She’s so cute!", "CBD will help bring you down too.", "Shaggy from Scooby Doo", ">LST\n\nFlashback: Iwo Jima!", "She needs to crank some tunes and get the ice cream.", "\"I don't know if I should stand up\"\n...\nSudden cutscene into a category 3 hurricane.", "So cute. \n\nBut honestly I've had edible brownies once and that shit scarred me legit for life. My group of friends all threw up (possibly laced with something), and I was high(paranoid) for 3 fucking days.\n\nDoes anyone really enjoy it?? Or is it even supposed to be pleasant？", "Why did covid bring itself into existence is the real question", "I've taken both. A low dose of LSD and edibles both give a nice body buzz and all around happy/giggly feeling. LSD will give some slight visual distortion but not hallucinations (remember I said low dose), edibles do not. So yes, they are quite similar in that aspect.", "Getting way more stoned than you planned on is bad, but not seeing it coming at all until it's too late must be a tribulation.", "She called 30 minutes later. I don't feel anything. Then 15 minutes later.", "Stopped me from suffocating to death but ok", "For real. I am a HEAVY smoker. Like I can vape 1 gram of 84% concentrate a day and not feel a thing. And edibles will still fuck me up like they did this lady.\n\nIt probably wasn't laced with anything. Too much edibles will just do that too you. Only way I've ever found to do 'too much' pot.\n\nIt's a really good high if you don't take too much. It's very easy to take too much though. A half hour in I always go \"did I take enough? I don't feel anything\" then take some more. 10 minutes later my brain is dividing by 0", "They meant in regards to weed", "You tell stories like those ad ridden Snapchat click baits", "lol true", "For accidental weed ingestion. Maybe give you a xanax if you're really freaking out but otherwise there's no \"narcan for pot\".", "Gets better.\n\nWhen this was originally posted, it was her daughter (I think) who did so and the lady herself showed up in the comments. As cool as they get.", "> did I take enough? I don't feel anything\" then take some more. 10 minutes later my brain is dividing by 0\n\nlol this was literally what happened to all of us come to think of it. We all took it easy at first but then since we didn't feel much 15 mins later we decided to finish them up...... \n\n30 mins later one of the girls started pacing back and forth in the room mumbling \"my mom is gonna hate me\", and I lost part of my memory that night.....", "\"It feels like LSD\". Cannabis actually is a psychedelic drug and it's high time that people started calling it that, methinks. I mean, sure, some strains of it feel more like a pain killer than others, but overall it's in psychedelic territory.", "edit: it's a LOOOOONG story what happened next. It involved non-shop calls, and in the end, my mom didn't like it AT ALL. Her mind was still more closed on things than I thought.", "I've done the same thing lol", "Lol just stop bud.\n\n It's very commonly known that edibles are much closer to a Psychedelic experience than smoking.", "Lmfao.", "Well it’s not. It might have some hallucinogenic effects taken in incredibly high doses, hallucinogens doesn’t mean psychedelic, even if all psychedelics are hallucinogens. \n\nHallucinations and paranoia are often results of stimulants too. But that doesn’t mean every stimulant is also a psychedelic. \n\nCannabis is cannabis. We can acknowledge psychological impact but misclassifying it would be less helpful and misinform more than it accurately describes.", "You took too much; dosage is an issue with edibles. You are committed more or less once you eat and you wont know for 30mins to an hour or so after.\n\nAnecdotally i have found the body-high very pleasant indeed, and it inhances all sorts of things.\n\nOn the flip side ive been fed a brownie that left me sweating, shivering.... and unable to follow really anything at a 3D movie: do not do this.", "That was my favorite part too, I cracked up from that one. Hilarious, but adorable at the same time, lol", "A high dose of edibles can certainly be hallucinogenic.", "> But that doesn’t mean every stimulant is also a psychedelic.\n\nYou say that as if you were debating someone! \n\n> Cannabis is cannabis. \n\nWow. Well, I can't reply to that. Cannabis is cannabis. \n\nI say that it's a psychedelic, and I'm not alone.", "That's not what \"clutching her pearls\" refers to.", "She must have got to stoned the night before and forget making it.", "And get the cops on your ass if you're in a more conservative state.", "Yeah… sorry that happened. You just took too much. A good dosage will make you feel like you are floating on a cloud, too much you will want to die. Which is why I just stay away from them completely lol", "She’s handling it like a champ!!", "Lol it's funny as long as she is okay now, but how does one buy this not knowing what it is", "Adorable!! Reminds me of my ma, gonna go give her a call", "The arrogance of man.", "Get this Granny some Narcannabis!", "Smoke some cbd", "I can hear my hair growing.", "Edibles only makes me dizzy and light headed. I hate taking gummies or any edible food.", "Marinara is a gateway to harder stuff. Like cheese.", "You're supposed to take a tiny amount, if you look at the 'recommended dosage' thing on the recipes it's always like 1/6 of a brownie. But you take the whole brownie, because that's the obvious thing to do, then you have a horrible time.", "I made brownies in high school and it was pretty great. In terms of edibles now I get chocolates but it's pretty much the same. \n\nIf you're prepared for a long day of accomplishing nothing it's pretty awesome.", "You want some soup?", "Depends on the strain too. I’ll eat an indica edible if I wanna sleep all weekend. Used to eat a 100mg Kushy Chew soon as I get on the plane for transpacific flights. I’d sleep all the way there; land in the afternoon; pop a melatonin and Xanax; wake up the next morning no jetlag. But a sativa edible? I’d be wired the whole way then turn myself into border control.", "It does operate on some of the same serotonin HTP receptors as LSD and psilocybin. CBD actually blocks some of those receptors; which is why some people will smoke CBD if they’re too high.", "There's a piece in front of the loaf", "There's nothing to do. It wears off within 3 hours if smoked, within 6 hours if ingested. Keep water nearby and take 800 mg of ibuprofen. You'll be fine.", "I want moar of this now lol", "Have a cup of tea and a nap, pretty much it really.", "Ibuprofen? What's that for? I mean like what does that help with when stoned from edibles?", "Shortens the effects, reduces inflammation, and helps with pain. Dramamine would also help, if you're prone to nausea.", "Edibles can be very scary if you eat too much, especially if you’re unexperienced with cannabis. Had some experiences on par with bad LSD trips on edibles.", "There is something you can do. You can take CBD nanoemulsion. CBD modulates the uptake of THC by cannabinoid receptors, and nanoemulsions allow for rapid onset, because the very tiny particles either transfer through the mucus membrane of your mouth easily, or are much more easily absorbed in your small intestine. \n\nIt's what we use at work when doing human trials with vapes- if someone gets too high, we give them a dose of rapid acting CBD.", "CBD competes for the same receptor, so yes, it will reduce the effects of THC. However, people are far* more likely to have ibuprofen on hand than CBD.", "I had a cousin who used to do marinara. We lost him in a battle against pesto, sadly.", "“It hit me like a fucking sledge hammer “ had me rolling 😂", "#", "> ibuprofen \n\nThis reduces the effects in some way?", "It will be ok mom, order a pizza everything will be fine! XO", "Can confirm, it's no fun being too high if it makes you paranoid. She could probably laugh at it later but in the moment it's terrifying.", "I don't know why people are downvoting you, they must not be too experienced with mild altering substances at all. I hear ya, first time I had an edible is was 500 mg and I got fucking wrecked out of my mind. I'm no stranger or noob to psychedelics but damn, that first gummie sent me on one of the wildest trips of my life. For a long time I was just a consciousness in a shell of a body. Some deep thinking involved and seeing shit whenever I closed my eyes. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI still eat edibles and can eat over 1000 mg in one go....", "Oh neat. I never knew it shortened the effects!", "Marilize Leganara", "No they can't that's very illegal", "Not if you're black", "I keep sublingual CBD tincture as a rescue option for anyone who gets too stoned. Sometimes the act of smoking is too much for someone already blitzed beyond comfort.", "You just gotta take the right amount. If you pound half a fifth your first time drinking you will feel like you are going to die.", "Terrific. Get her some more. She loved it.", "You've done LSD enough to have bad LSD and edibles fucked you up?", "Yeah, she's blazed before.", "Yep. I can understand why someone who do that though. Too much can be downright terrifying.", "Interesting. What does ibuprofen do?", "Agreed. I tried it recently. Ended up throwing the who stash away. There was nothing at all pleasant about it for me. Just anxiety and craziness.", "Not him, but oh yeah.", "I would go through a loop every 5 minutes. Extreme anxiety, then confusion, then some sort of reflecting, then about 60 seconds of clarity, then back to anxiety. It was hell.", ">Psychedelics (also known as hallucinogens) are a class of psychoactive substances that produce changes in perception, mood and cognitive processes. 1. Psychedelics affect all the senses, altering a person's thinking, sense of time and emotions.\n\nLiterally typing the word into google and the first paragraph that pops up.\n\nWikipedia on the word \"Hallucinogen\" literally goes into depth on how the words are and have been used interchangeably and over the years pop culture preferences have changed the use.\n\nSo it isn't a debate. You are literally telling him the same exact word.\n\nThis is like telling someone that poutine isn't French fries because someone added gravy.", "Bad trips rather than bad LSD but yep.", "Sounds like my experience. Absolute hell. From extreme paranoia and anxiety to singing country songs (I hate country music!) and seeing everything in 3D like I'd never experienced it before. Thought I was going to be stuck like that forever.", "Yep… way way wayyyy too much weed. Sorry to hear that. I promise it can be good, in the right amounts!", "Perfect response.", "I don't get why it is called \"edible\". Edible literally has its own meaning, for most people it just means \"safe for consumption\".\n\nWhy can't it be called what it is. \"Marijuana added\" or something else along the line.", "I ate 5 MG edible once and it literally had me seeing life in snapshots, sweating, and dizzy. absolutely terrifying. Me and pot don’t mix either sadly", "> It's not a debate, merely a correction.\n\nWho are you correcting then? Quote me saying, \"Stimulants are psychedelics\", or any nearly like that.\n\nThe conversation is over.", "My mom bought some gummis a month ago, 10 MG a piece, she ate the whole bag because she didn't feel anything immediately, it was 10 pieces, she was fuuuuucked up for an entire day. I don't know if 100 MG is a lot, I don't do any kind of drugs. But I'm just thinking, if 5 MG messed you up, was what my mom did a lot?", "Yeah, I thought about trying it again. I only took half of what they recommended (10 mg cookie).", "It’s more of a “square is a rectangle but rectangles not always square” type argument, which is entirely 100% valid and in this case, actually correct.\n\nRegardless, the downvotes on OP comment and upvotes on mine speak for themselves on whether or not: \n\n>it’s high time we start calling it a psychedelic, methinks\n\nLooks like not high enough time! Heh. High time. Cannabis. This shit writes itself.", "Holy trollololol", "You're blocked for incivility.", "Yikes. Read the downvotes, my friend. You're just wrong, learn to acknowledge it. And what incivility? Ludicrous." ]	118	videos	Mom accidentally ate marijuana bread
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qepscw/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qepscw/deleted_by_user/	[ "Haha nice try CIA, I didn’t click!!! Canadians don’t need those, we have maple syrup, and Canadian Geeses.", "Lol 😂 I like how simplistic this video is. \n\nRegards \nPlutonium-239", "single FBI agents near you! click here:", "Your links broken, I can't get to the single agents. Please fix!" ]	4	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdPaqt6RY_Q	/r/videos/comments/qerxik/dads_taking_on_the_country_without_a_fight/	[ "God damnit my country if full of obese people, it’s like a shitty Nutty the Professor but it’s the whole damn country", "So... you're perfect then? Or do you want every single compliment you get to come with \"but you're still the kind of person to try to tear someone down when complimenting them\"?", "So you see fathers stepping in, helping out the community and their children, actually being there for their kids and you think \"they could do better\"? \n\nYou don't think that's a mildly shitty thing to vocalize or in this case type?", "That's actually genius of them. Who either wants to get caught by their own Dad acting up at school or just as worse another Dad who's just gonna rat you out to your mom or whoever is in charge of your house hold? We need more Dad patrols.", "Great dads, great job, great inspiration! ❤️", "It's a collaborative effort to help all the other kids, not only their own.", "I get that you think so. I think the point is that there are millions of people not doing anything and some people stepped up, which to me is a good example of doing something when no one else is. \n\nIt isn't, to me, about being a role model in every possible fashion, living a perfect life so as to be the paragon of examples in all ways. Some of them probably smoke, or drink too much or swear, or have other bad habits. \n\nIt's easy to find fault, especially when you have the free time to sit around and nitpick because your time isn't occupied by doing something equally as productive as these guys.", "Some heartfelt shit there. Tremendous impact.", "On one hand this is awesome but on the other these guys need to work on their fork pudowns.", "Dads Dead from Diabetes", "The path of least resistance is usually to do nothing. To just let things happen and blame circumstances. But they didn't, they show that they care and try to help. \n\nMany comments have pointed out that some of them are overweight. Yes, that's another set of issues, but they're actively trying to make a positive change in their community, isn't that worth focusing on here?", "Ha, they aren't just there stalking their own kids around class to class.", "Maybe they should teach you how to act since you lack so much class.", "Too coo. Just not too coo for schoo", "This is a great idea. I wish we had this in our school.\nWe had this group of young Christians who would go around talking to kids with issues. It definitely helped but you always knew their agenda.", "They could also have a weird work shift overlap. If they work 2nd then being at school is giving them far more time around their kids", "While I understand where you're coming from, and don't exactly disagree, the majority of the issue is lack of self control and discipline on a personal level.", "Sounds like you're not a Dad.", "That’s some infectious laughter right there. Love those guys!", "Kids need to know somebody gives a shit about them. Very hard to get that from overworked and underpaid school staff.", "This is awesome. I’m curious how they’re able to work this into their schedules, seems like a lot of extra work on their plate but this is how a village raises a child.", "No shit. Uncle, Coach, Father and friend Ive watched or am watching a third generation of kids grow up. \n\nLoving involvement from anyone helps.\nHaving come from a non ideal Dad. Seeing my friends, teammates and neighbors dads helped me. I understood my situation was not normal or cool. Still sucked.", "They have 40 dads to cover 5 school days a week. With 4 on duty each day, that would require a commitment of one day a fortnight. Are there 40 dads in every highschool who could volunteer that time?", "As pointed out in the video, not everyone has a dad. And believe it or not, a male figure at home is extremely important. [There seems to be some sort of correlation with bad behavior and the lack of a father figure, no matter how the mother is.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1756061616300957)", "I just have one bit of advice for you:\n\n> If your deep fantasy is affecting change in people through the internet, maybe because of the fact that you feel you lack power in real life, I'm just suggesting that maybe you could find a healthier way to deal with that. \n\nYour life doesn't have to be this miserable. There are people in the world that want to help you with what you are going through.\n\nBest of luck to you, friend.", "This is so awesome", "Hope in Humanity: 0/10 -> 1/10\n\nY'all got 9 more of this stuff?", "Yeah, no one is perfect. I see these people helping out as pretty swell of them. \n Regardless if it's their own parent or some one else. \n \nThe person I responded to is shit talking people actually trying to help. \n \nI hope they get the help they need.", "Nice bait", "I suggest watching all of Steve Hartman's videos. Here's a couple more for you:\n\n(grab a box off tissues first)\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2kKkliMUo\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsrV9FP_JKE\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AFEmZ62lVw\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcKpJsavZA0", "We need this in every school", "That one about creating a cheering section for the incarcerated kids' team is my fave. Makes me cry every time!", "So that's what DoD stands for - dads on duty", "It could be a non profit where that's their actual job.", "The title hurts my brain", "It's a quote from the video but yeah looks weird without the context maybe. You know you how you usually say \"not without a fight\", it's a play on that.", "Both men and society underestimate their value in raising children. It's great to see these guys aren't.", "With you friend. I was also addressing the sourpuss.", "There's a national organization called Watch Dogs (where DOGS stands for Dads Of Great Students) that does something like this. They have programs and some training for getting men involved at school. It tends to be mostly moms that have time and desire to come in and help, so this is a way to get more dads (and uncle and grandparents and step dads etc) involved.", ">but you always knew their agenda.\n\nWhich was?", "Group of friends wanting to hang out and shoot the shit every day found a damn good way to do this. Where do I send my resume?", "Yeah I think people are misconstruing what you wrote.", "Anyone commenting about the weight of these men is just being an ass.", "Convert to Christianity, join their church, give us money. Same with every organised religion.", "Yeah I was baffled that that was some peoples' takeaway from the whole thing. Whatever ^^", "Sometimes for positive influence it just takes a visible presence of a good role model.\n\nSome role models are just more visible that others.", "How about \"serve others, with no expectation of thanks or return\"? If that's the only experience you've had with people calling themselves Christians, I'm truly sorry. No /s.\n\nSadly, those are the sort of people who give Christianity a bad name. Yes, there are people who do horrible, or even simply venal, things in the name of God. And yes, churches need some contributions just to keep the bills paid. Any more than that goes towards community programs and contributions for those in need, not into the pockets of the clergy.", ">or just as worse another Dad who's just gonna rat you out to your mom or whoever is in charge of your house hold\n\nA lot of the people I knew that were constantly in trouble didn't have anyone that would care what trouble they got in.", "Oh wells. We know!", "The correct terminology is \"Dad bod\". Now, I just need to find myself a son/daughter and it will be true for me.", "Ya know, I was gonna say something shitty but you're being too polite and don't deserve that. Yes I have had many negative interations with many different religious types. I agree with you that people need community focused organizations that have a fiduciary duty to the community they serve. It would be really nice to have that instead of things like megachurches or televangelists.", "For every one of those greed centers you hear about, there are many congregations doing good things in their communities. \n\nSometimes our outreach pays off, but not in money. We've had several families who were served by the ramp ministry (our crews can build about one a month for those in need, that are free to the recipients), who have become members of our church. \n\nWhy am I telling you this? I just want to let you know that most Christians are not out to grab your wallet, or to rope you into a cult. You're right to have a healthy cynicism of those who would, though.", "Thanks for saying so. I would probably like this world a lot more if all religious people behaved like the good guys from their specific texts.", "As I said, it's just smart to resist scammers, religious or not. But please understand that most of us don't want to rob you, or hate your gay relatives (most of us love our LGBT+ relatives and friends), or drag you into a cult. We want to help where we can.\n\nThank you for understanding. Have a great week.", "Yeah I think it's probably more like a Louisiana issue, all that tasty southern food...\n\nAlso from experience living in an east coast city that is very humid in the summers, fuck the humidity. You can't exercise in the humid heat and if you don't have air conditioned gyms what are you gonna do? The second the humidity disappears and winter weather rolls in I am walking and moving around twice as fast and probably getting more exercise as a result. I don't blame these men for living in a humid ass swamp that keeps them from being physically active.", "maybe? But most dads are at work. Maybe some of them are retired or on disability or something?", "That i is freaking awesome" ]	61	videos	Dads taking on the country without a fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG9ZRfO9cGI	/r/videos/comments/qes6dq/best_sport_ever_360ball/	[ "r/theocho", "I thought I was in r/whitepeoplegifs for a second", "Looks like something they would play in star trek", "That looks insanely difficult.", "Naah, jiskefet is better.", "So spike ball….", "I'd play.", "Spike ball but with rackets and boards", "Spikeball with rackets" ]	9	videos	Best sport ever! 360BaLL
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qesw9z/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qesw9z/deleted_by_user/	[ "watched the entire stand up the only real miss is the jk rowling comment (which still has a point to the entire set) otherwise the entire stand-up comes off as dave being pissed at the tans community for hounding his trans friend to the point she committed suicide.\n\nit just feels super dishonest to call the stand up act transfobic in my eyes since that is not the point.", "People havent watched it. They heard what he was talking about and made up their minds. The whole set is being misrepresented.", "Except even Daphne's roommate says hanging her suicide at the feet of people on Twitter is reductive\n\nIt's ok though Dave has a trans friend so it's ok he can say whatever he wants.", "And her family sided with Dave.", "If I kill myself my roommates and not my family is gonna have a much better idea of what happened.", "That’s bizarre, most people are closer with their families than you are with yours.", "The people you live with are far and away closer to your day to day mental state. Also it's not exactly rare in the trans community to be some description of distant from your family.", "but he also said Twitter isn’t real\n\nSeems like he didn’t think it through very well", "He said he was on team TERF, which means that he is on the side of feminists who believe that trans women are not real women. He might as well have said the F word for ~30 minutes. That's how this special will age.\n\n#\n\nTo a trans person, especially a trans woman, it's like saying you're on team Nazi and that Jewish people are not real people. That was his big haha funny opener to his special. I know there are a lot of cishet fans (the majority of humans) that are pushing back on this, but this is the perspective of the majority of trans women, including myself.\n\nAll comedy punches, and this was punching down.\n\nFor more information on the term TERF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF", "Most people are much more emotionally open with their families than their roommates. \n\nObviously there are exceptions but it's bizarre to insist a roommate knew her (and her reasons for suicide) better than her family", "The suicide rate among trans women is around 45% hence why this is such a sensitive subject in our community https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/comedian-s-death-underscores-high-suicide-rate-among-transgender-people-n1067546", "If you think Dave is the GOAT stand up or not, I can listen to either side of that debate.\n\nOne thing for sure is he is the greatest marketer ever for his specials/shows. He knows what he's doing and people either have to watch the special or just get called out for not watching it and being reactionary, which many people on here have pointed out already.\n\nDude knows how to sell his craft better than anyone else and get them talking about it. It's that saying, \"there's no such thing as bad press.\" Everyone is just playing right in to that and millions will show up to watch his next special to see what he will say.", "Yes. Idiot. Just like how Dave Chappelle is speaking for all black people. What a stupid fucking argument.\n\nhttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/dave-chappelle-netflix-employees-walkout/", "Dave doesn’t treat Twitter like it’s real life\n\nExcept he makes an entire special to have a one-sided refutation of criticism he faced on Twitter and blames Twitter for leading to his trans friend’s death\n\nAll while being celebrated by outwardly anti-trans conservative reactionaries\n\nyep sounds like he nailed it", "WTF does that have to do with Dave Chappelle being a biggoted fucking asshole, idiot? GTFO of my replies with your toxic whataboutism.", "Before I click on this, does it involved pimps, drugs and whores?", "Dave chappelle boosts up obscure and star struck trans comedian to cover up his transphobia => Dave makes super offensive comedy special => trans community outraged => trans comedian kills herself => Dave chappelle \"why would the trans community do something so awful\". \n\nBro, if you didn't make that special she would almost certainly be alive today, and now you're making money telling jokes about it. I guess you got to hold onto the dogma of \"nothing is off limits with comedy\" otherwise you would have to think about the very real harms you have done spreading hate filled jokes to your millions of fans.", "Trans people are almost always more comfortable and accepted by their peers over their family. Coming out to, and dealing with your family as a trans person is typically very challenging. Most trans folks I have met have minimal to no contact with their bio family.", "Honestly, Dave saying his jokes are ok because he had one trans friend is like the proud boys saying they're not racist because they have a few black members. You're not absolved because only 99% of a community thinks you're offensive.", "She probably won't be the last suicide either. Wait until his fans start retelling his jokes at every trans person they see. Isn't that sort of similar to the reason he left chappelle show?", "I’m using “entire” to describe the amount of work and effort that goes into making a special (despite him just fulfilling a Netflix contract) and then spending the majority of it bitching about how trans people object to how they’re portrayed in his standup, including him completely rewriting reality on the JK Rowling controversy and then declaring himself a terf, lol.", "That seems like a pretty wide generalization to make, especially when it's fairly clear from the statements her family made that they loved and accepted Daphne.", "I will agree with you 100%, saying ''I am team TERF'' brings with it a whole bunch of baggage that is, in my opinion, transphobic.\n\nIt's the equivalent of some dude that doesn't know much about the Men's rights movement saying he agrees with the movement because he supports men being represented when it comes to domestic abuse, without really knowing that a lot of these people turn out to be incels and/or anti-women.\n\nThe same applies to Dave in his special. He sees issues that TERFs agree with him like ''Only ciswomen are able to give birth'' or ''Ciswomen might feel like trans women are somehow getting all the perks of being a woman without a drawback'' as enough of a reason to say he is ''Team TERF'' without likely knowing what other issues that are transphobic.\n\nIs this irresponsible of him? I would say Yes, ultimately with such a big platform a good amount of knowledge on the subject should be a minimum requirement, otherwise, it leads to issues like yourself (I'm assuming) thinking he is a flat-out transphobe. \n\n\nHowever...\n\n>he is on the side of feminists who believe that trans women are not real women.\n\nI don't think this is how Dave actually feels, at the end of the day you have to understand this isn't someone who is spending the majority of their time online reading the latest development on gender norms and culture. He, like many others around the world, has a lot of questions and over the course of refining their views, they will say things that are wrong or can be misrepresented. \n\nIn his own words from that very same special seconds after he talks about TERFs ''I am not saying that [Refering to agreeing with TERFs] to say that transwomen aren't women, I'm just saying that those pussies that they got.... you know what I mean?''\n\nIn other words, it's not that Dave is against transwomen, hates transwomen, or doesn't think they are ''valid'', but like tons of other people, he understands why women, specifically TERFs, would be a little ticked off by some aspects of transwomen, regarding how they are treated in society, thus bringing up the example of Caitlyn Jenner and her winning ''Woman of the year'' award.\n\nNow, let me be the first to say that I don't agree with Dave, but the point I'm trying to draw is that his jokes and critiques are spot on when it comes to talking about how most people feel about a subject and at the end of the day, that's the majority of his audience, people who otherwise might not know much about being trans and the culture surrounding it, being told stories and jokes in a way that they can understand, and I would argue this type of delivery method is a good way to get people who don't know much, involved with these issues.\n\nThis is a long enough reply, so as a parting conclusion, I'll just pose this question. Do you think Dave has generally contributed positively towards the trans community when it comes to how he portrays them to an audience of otherwise out-of-touch people who don't know much about the subject?", "This is bad faith, he literally goes on to say ''It wasn't the jokes, I don't know if it was them [the Twitter trans community] dragging, I don't know what was going on in her life, but I bet dragging her didn't help''", "That ended up being a few people from Netflix, and a few dozen outside people. They also proved to be intolerant and violent toward counter protestors. It was the perfect example of \"don't talk about me, I will silence you, but I will say what I want about anyone.", "Protestors being violent towards counter protestors? Shocker. It's a protest. You're right they should be extra nice to scabs.", "I am speaking from personal experience of being a trans woman as well as knowing multiple trans women and occupying trans spaces online for years. Sure it's not a scientific study. Do you have any experience with this subject?", "how did they prove his point\n\nmaybe they (and others) objected to it because it's hacky and, in the case of the JK Rowling disinformation, irresponsible and potentially dangerous\n\nI'm glad you can be entertained by the millionth standup about being cancelled but personally for me as a former Dave Chapelle fan it's just been a slow and sad decline", "> He said he was on team TERF,\n\nwhich in the context of the routine is meant to comes off as a joke.\n\nhe had previously made fun of feminists and then cited webesters definition of feminist concluded he is one then later using fact he had been labeled transphobic to mean since he is a feminist by webesters definition and people have labeled him as transphobic that must mean he is on team TERF.\n\npart of the routine he continuously pokes at the fact he has been labeled transphobic.\n\nbut overall i just don't understand the prolonged outrage since it is some weak milk toast shit vs what GoP political person will gladly throw out or what is just around the internet everywhere.\n\neven most left leaning people aren't there yet so it is diservice to the cause to see the ridiculous demands being made over this.", "1. choosing not to host a special on a private platform is not censorship, especially if it's driven by the company's own employees who are concerned for the safety of trans people. netflix could just sell it to another outlet\n2. conservatives do this shit \\all the time\\. Cuties? cancel netflix! Netflix signs a deal with Obama? cancel netflix! the hunt? cancel Universal! What's odd is that these instances - the latter of which was literally led by the Republican president - are never seen as 'cancel culture', because it's instead seen as serving a patriotic end, whatever that means.\n\nyou all only give a fuck when it's some minority group trying to claw back some semblance of dignity or human/civil rights, when it's a satirical movie about MAGA hogs being hunted by coastal elites you fill your diapers.", "That man can tell the fuck out of a story.", "His follow up interview after the controversy began was transphobic. Explaining his support for JK, the world's most famous transphobic person, seals the deal about his real feelings on the matter off stage.", "lol my father isn't republican, and you're actually worse than that stereotype - you're a Jordan Peterson cultist, the dumbest of the culture war grifted", "I'm genuinely sorry if you don't get along with your family well - but for most people that relationship is significantly closer than with roommates. That's no different with the trans people I've met, but we're both just speaking from anecdotal experience there. \n\n\nEither way, if the family is signalling that they were close (and Dave who actually knew her intimates that he had a relationship with her family as well as her) its pretty wild to assume the roommate had more insight into her thoughts than her family.", "The Daphne story was rancid. Empty virtue signaling amidst using someone's suicide to motivate some rather twisted viewpoints regarding the community. I failed to spot a single genuine aspect to it. He told it from start to finish with near spotless delivery and didn't even hesitate to throw in the fact that he had started a trust fund. It reminded me of Ellen's fake apology, and honestly it felt like a planned defense against backlash he was facing at the time." ]	36	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WktqKD5QD8k	/r/videos/comments/qet6oa/painful_audiophile_tiktoks/	[ "Crin is absolutely right.", "when it comes to burn-in i just heard you shouldn't crank your base to max the first thing you do when you get one instead you let get worn a bit before you crank it.", "Watched this expecting the expert to be an idiot, but he is actually spot on, the frequency response curve should be flat. No bass boost, no mid range / high range fluctuation\n\nBut with all this knowledge I still use some free HyperX headphones and my polk audio book shelves with an amplifier as PC speakers", "yeah burn in is one of those endless discussions just like tone wood on electric guitars.\n\nI personally believe that people who believe in burn in just play themselves a little bit. Any headphone that sounds different to prior experience will take time to get used to.\n\nIt's not the headphone that is changing, it's your perception on the sound that changes over time.", "Hey bro u got a little bit of video stuck in your ads", "\"I don't understand this generation\" summed it up for me. I can't even bear to watch people making fun of these TikTok users; there's just a feel to all of them, you know? Like when your dishwater wasn't hot enough and there's a thin film of grease left over on your glassware? They remind me of that.", "Why promote a channel that is dead? He posted like 5 videos the last 3 months. Also doesn't go into what is better than XM4", "I’ve heard of needing to flex and stretch subwoofers when they’re brand new, but the idea that the tiny speakers in some headphones would need the same treatment seems insane. It’s already negligible to most people on the bigger speakers.", "What the fuck kind of question is this? You can still watch the videos he made though.\n\nI frequently recommend Youtubers who haven't uploaded in YEARS, because they have a backlog of dozens, or even hundreds of high quality content that people will still enjoy consuming.\n\nAlso the channel isn't even dead. 5 Videos in 3 months sounds like perfectly solid output to me, Youtubers who make a video every week or every day do so by sacrificing content quality.\n\nWhat's wrong with you?", "Crinacle is a legend in the headphone community. These videos are just fun side things, his real work is elsewhere. You want to know what he thinks is better? He maintains a massive ranking list: https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/\n\nHe also contributes heavily to the headphone EQ databases: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle", "Ok I stand corrected I still wish he would have recommended an alternative to XM4 though, for his own channel growth", "He actually is something of an expert. Check out /r/inearfidelity and his website https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/ He's even done collab IEMs with Moondrop.", "Whoa, freaky analogy. I like it", "My guess is that he'd take the Senn. Momentum 3's over them.", "They're like a smart fridge that can talk. It has a voice, but it shouldn't.", "I work as an acoustic engineer and used to design hifi loudspeakers. I can say with some confidence that they're are some measurable differences in transducers after burn-in BUT they generally generally result in no audible difference to sound. I'd say the only real benefit to burn-in is that it will show any manufacturering defects in the unit early on so you can replace/return your units while they're still in warranty. So, no harm in doing it but usually totally unnecessary.", "Great video! Can you recommend a wireless headphone under $500?", "Nice.", "i just got the nothing ear really like em, well fuck...", "Use it like normal. It doesn't care either way.", "I have the sennheiser momentum 2 and they've been pretty great. Been bouncing around from earphone to earphone (Bose, Samsung mostly) for a few years but these are first ones that made me feel like I wouldn't even think of upgrading for a few years (when the battery ultimately goes to shit). I was also considering the B&W ones but had too many compromises for that high of a price.\n\nEdit: lol realized you asked for headphones and not earphones, my bad. Personally was split between the QC35 II and the Sony XM3 but ended up going with the bose due to comfort and having actual buttons, sound quality almost equal. Both have newer models out now and are the go to for \"high end consumer\" but I would def check out Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless too.", "Vmoda m100. Super fun.", "You don't have to guess, they're on his ranking list.", "Ah, I'm surprised he's got any of the ANC headphones on his list tbh!", "Keep in mind they're ranked based on audio reproduction, not other features and battery life.", "If burn in was actually a thing, wouldn't the manufacturers themselves just be doing it before sale?", "His mic/audio is so crisp and clean. I'd love to get this level of quality for zoom calls if possible.", "chubbyasianpana, is that your video?\n\n\nyay downvoting for asking a question, well done reddit XD", "Oh shit, it's that guy? I ~~poured~~ pored over his site the last time I needed to buy headphones.", "Its been hilarious seeing major celebrities and even musicians doing zoom interviews due to the pandemic, and they have dogshit audio quality. You have a $20million recording studio, why are you using air pods for your mic", "My biggest issue with buying headphones online is comfort. I end up taking a sound quality cut just for headphones that comfortably fit my big head for 12 hours straight. Even ones where people swear on the comfort I still find uncomfortable 4/5 times.", "Was kinda hoping he would give advice on what you should buy instead, would love to know what the better alternatives are for the sony wh-1000xm4", "Pandas, your welcome :)", ">But with all this knowledge I still use some free HyperX headphones and my polk audio book shelves with an amplifier as PC speakers\n\nThat's because flat response curve is ideal for critical listening, like mastering music or using as reference gear. However, it can be a more sterile and/or boring listening experience for most people. People love that V shape response curve or bass slanted gear. You just plug them in with no components required and it just sounds more fun right off the bat. Mass consumer products cater to the what the masses want in audio.\n\nI love hifi to the point Ive dropped more than 20 grand on audio gear throughout my life. However, even on hifi end I still tend to shop for \"house tuning\" as opposed to all the flat response gear. Even on hifi end there is a choice. On hifi gear the tuning is not anywhere near as abusive as the consumer tuning, but tweaked to sound more fun that perfectly flat gear. There are two separate camps even on hifi end. I have one flat response set of monitors I use to tweak my audio tracks and that is it... I see flat as work oriented gear and tuned as enjoyment oriented gear. \n\nIt's why cheaper consumer products tune their gear for that V shape or heavy bass slant, because to the untrained population they will hear it as better to their ears. It's so pervasive that consumers getting into hifi have to retrain their brain to get out of the liking the V shape and switch to being more detail/nuance focused. \n\nWhat really makes hifi start to feel slimey though are all the snake oil salesmen. 15-20 grand speaker wires. Ive even seen a several hundred dollar nano audio spray you squirt on your connectors for \"better audio\". It's easy to get turned off.", "Yeah I've read his lists and reviews many times, I just seriously couldn't recall seeing any ANC headphones on the list. In-ear wireless, sure.", "at the Stert of the pandemic I wanted to start consulting for people, turning their dogshit home videoconferencing situations into okay setups using whatever was to hand plus a few adapters and mics but hardware was instantly fucking scarce. No HDMI-USBs anywhere.", "I'm guessing you've already tried the quietcomforts?", "that'll increase costs i a mass production society. QC is a cost balance already. Burn in would eventually happen on its own at that. I get break in on subwoofers and even that is debated, 200 hours is definitely bullshit on headphones in any case.\n\nAnd yup, we call it breaking in, not burning in.", "Same, I clicked hesitantly expecting it to just be some blowhard shaming other blowhards but he was both really measured in responses and gave clearly well-considered and experienced opinions.\n\nI don't have a problem with non-flat sound signatures, but in general it's niche and appeals to a specific listening demographic. Personally I prefer a flat to very slightly warm sound as long as the uppers are crisp without being sibilant and the bass rich without being muddy/boomy. I also need clean and present mids.", "Such a kid reply, it's not active so it's not worth promoting, or watching? What are we looking for here, maybe got the subscriber = popular ingrained in your bran much? You seem to have missed the point of freedom of information, it's not for some dipshit to get followers. Wow I'm impressed. You are 18, tops, but I'd suspect closer to 15.", "Audio engineer here. It's pretty simple to determine if burn-in exists, as Crin says. A simple test tone and measuring the frequency response before and after 200 hours of use will tell you the truth. A lot of conventional audiophile wisdom is just personal bias wrapped up in pseudoscience.", "I have not, Im actually just using a Hyperx Cloud headset most of the time because I find it so comfortable. But I did just get a new job so I'm back in the market for something nicer.", "Bose quiet comfort 35 ii, you can wear these things forever and the comfort level is insane. Great battery life. Good audio to my ear.", "Those aren't wireless.", "https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/", "I tried the cloud 2 and they're light but ended up returning them because there is zero horizontal swivel to the ear ups since they are attached to the thin red metal part that connects it to the headband.\n\nI'd really recommend checking out the new quietcomfort 45s. I absolutely love my QC35 and it blows out the cloud in every way possible (even \"surround sound directionality\" in fps games) and you get damn good noise canceling on top of it. If you need to get a gaming headset, they sell a QC35 gaming edition that's a headset. The mic won't be as good as a dedicated one but honestly, it's good enough without shelling out another $40+ to get marginal returns.", "If you like them, then I wouldn't let this impact you feelings too much. If you like them, then by all means be happy!", "A lot of these are clearly just paid sponsorships. There's so much money flying around tiktok right now so of course you're going to get a bunch of teenage \"experts\" telling you to buy some product you've never heard of.", "> play themselves a little bit\n\nYou're too nice.", "tiktok in its core,dude destroys 300$ headphones calling them garbage and then recommends a 15$ rgb headset.", "Yeah you can also hear the distance change and direction hes turning his head infront of the mic, very clearly. Pretty neat!", "whats the best discord/reddit community for getting advice on how to set up a sweet vocal rig like this?", "No idea, sorry!", "You seem impressively angry, you must be at least 99 years old to gather thst much anger to unleash", "I have Bose QC35 and they are fine, comfortable and my noise cancel is so so (compared them to coworkers and theirs are better, same exact model)\n\nI prefer the sound of XM3 over QC35, but QC are more comfortable and the mic isn’t atrocious like XM3 was. Haven’t tried XM4\n\n\nAny Bose headphones don’t sound amazing, which is fine because I use them at work. Is he judging the XM4 as ANC headphones or as headphones though?", "The only part I hated was when he couldn’t tell that the 2nd Tiktok was a joke. And he went too much into the Bugha headset.", "glad to read this, I have the Momentum 2 and really like them, but the reviewer in the video gave them a C-. \n\nI thought they pretty much matched what you'd get from Sony or Samsung.", "16 videos and 1 stream in the last 2 months. WTF are you on.", "And then, the video before thst is 2 years old so I legit though it was someone stealing videos", "Oh didn't catch that part. They have a wireless set but I've never used them so idk.", "No, you don't understand... it has RGB!!1!", "Doing something like that require time, and time is money, it's just going to result in extra cost for the manufactures.", "Wow.", "Personally I believe the perception of burn in is based on the individual getting used to the frequency response of the new speakers/ headphones, rather than any physical changes with the speakers themselves.", "Friendly correction, in case you didn't know. In this context it's \"pored over\", rather than \"poured over\".", "Same reason anyone uses Airpods for anything: convenience.", "To be fair, he is giving the first gen a C- and if you look at the SPL graph on Crinacles site for both the first and second gen, the second gen is slightly flatter and if you enable the high end tuning mode, even flatter.\n\nOf course, sound can be subjective and I think if you enjoy your earphones after having tried a few different ones, you shouldn't let someone online feel like you NEED to upgrade or change to something else.\n\nPersonal experience tho, I've had/tried the galaxy buds, buds +, buds live, buds pro, and Sony xm3. The MTW2 has blown them all out of the water for me, but I like to have wider sound staging and more details in my music, so the others may serve you better if that doesn't matter much to you (especially sound staging). Crinacle gave the Samsungs Bs in general and I don't disagree with that considering their price points, but I certainly think he is dinging the MTWs because it's the first gen and it had a few problems, it's a pretty high price point compared to most wireless earphones, and maybe he does have a little bias against it because of the HD820s lol. In my opinion, price aside, sennheiser beats the Samsung and Sonys in most cases, but the price difference is def not small and very arguable if the improvements are worth the gap in price.", "You want flat for mixing, but otherwise it kind of comes down to taste and the individual’s hearing. A lot of people find headphones that scoop the mids a little bit and boost some of the more sparkly high frequencies sound more “musical” or “sweetened”, for example. If you’re older, odds are you’ve lost some high frequencies, which might mean that you like trebely headphones to compensate for that. Ultimately it’s subjective. There are plenty of non-audiophiles who don’t really give a shit but find that hyped up bass makes them want to dance. There are also plenty of audio engineers who use much different headphones to listen to music than they do to mix it. Kind of like how someone who color grades movies wouldn’t use a movie theater as his work display, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t watch movies in the theater.", "Thanks for sharing, mine are only a few weeks old and I tried to do tons of research before getting them. I had read somewhere that they edged out the Sony comparable at $280 with these at $200. \n\nI do love the soundstage, but as was the case with the $60 pair of soundcore that I upgraded from, I really wish they were about 10% louder, as I end up listening to everything at max volume, with the very rare exception of some EDM tracks that end up too loud.", "Even if there was burn-in, I doubt they'd notice it.\n\nIt's like the \"gamers\" buying expensive monitors with a little higher frequency... AS IF THAT MATTERED FOR THEIR RESULTS!\n\nGet good at the game instead, you're not gonna start kicking ass because your monitor has a higher frequency.", "Audeze has a burn in rack and all their headphones sit in it playing music for a period of time, I think it's 24 hours? I saw it on one of their YouTube videos. I'm still not sure I buy it, but I guess it helps them weed out any serious QC issues too.", "I use my SLR as a web cam and a USB condenser mic and I have been told many times I look and sound HD in the various teams calls I frequent for work.", "Got myself Shure SM7B with Triton Fethead connected to Focusrite Scarlett solo which also runs my speakers. Now I don't have to upgrade my mic ever again.", "the youtuber has his own community, probably wluld be a good place to start at least", "The higher frame rates are at least actually visible. I've never used a 240hz monitor, but I'd imagine it's noticably smoother in motion than a 60hz monitor, given 3D graphics generally haven't had motion blur built in until differently, and that LCDs suffer from ghosting in motion.\n\nYour high res audio though? That's not a discernable difference outside of edge cases.", "My recommendation is to scroll down into his video description and buy his setup.", "I fucking love it when someone goes \"oh, THAT guy\". One of the best ways to tell that someone knows what they are doing, or the COMPLETE opposite.", "That is a list of headphones in general, not a list of alternatives for the xm4's. On the go wireless headphones exist on that list, but there is no way to sort based on that, so all you get is a list with headphones on it and you have to google them all to understand what they are. I believe he is making a video about alternatives to the xm4's, but just linking to his list isn't helping.", "Blue yeti (never used it, but I understand it's solidly in the 'sounds pretty good and isn't a pain to set up' camp) or something. Personally the last logitech headset I used had pretty decent mic audio quality too and they're like $30. Maybe a pop filter. Maintain good distance. Throw a blanket over your head, or otherwise have a bunch of sound-absorbing material around you to stop echo. Plenty of people record voice overs in their closets for that reason. Use an audio editor that levels you do noise removal, and then maybe throw a compressor on top (which will just level out the volume of your speech). Should end with a pretty decent sounding result.", "Huh? You are worse than the people in the tiktoks he talks about in the video. Why the fuck would you recommend earphones that the guy in the video thinks are worse than the xm4's, which he calls shit in the video?", "Xm3, xm4, qc 35 ii and others are on the list.", "In the category he thinks the xm4's are the best. He just doesn't think they are very good. I believe Sennheisers momentum 3 ranks higher on his audio quality list, but those might not have as goos ANC/battery life/featureset and so on.", "Nope, that's /u/crinacle in the video", "There's diminishing returns at a refresh rate higher than 144hz, but the differences are definitely there.", "/r/inearfidelity is the place. Though there really isn't any discussion on microphones.", "Lol if you think one man's review of audio products is the end all, be all then you obvs don't know what you're talking about.\n\nWhy don't you give your own recommendations or reasons for why these earphones are shit.", "> I've never used a 240hz monitor, but I'd imagine it's noticably smoother in motion than a 60hz monitor\n\nYeah I'm using 165hz and just set it back to 60 to remind myself of what it's like, it's a pretty massive difference. Moving a window around feels like the difference between something with an obvious distracting framerate refreshing vs a real object being moved around in front of me. I wonder if I got used to 240Hz I'd be spoiled enough that 165 isn't good enough either!", "I don't think a high frequency makes me any better (although I've seen some people argue it can give an edge), it just looks a shitload load smoother so I enjoy it more because it feels more immersive.", "I don't think a high frequency makes me any better (although I've seen some people argue it can give an edge), it just looks a shitload smoother so I enjoy it more because that contributes a lot to a game feeling more immersive.", "Airpods are trash. Their mic's sound quality are awful on most video calls I'm on.", "akg n700nc m2, if you just want good sound quality", "good ol' ear burn-in, rather than driver burn-in", "because ..what can you fucking do with a 15 dollar price tag for headphone market?\n\nthere not much really..let alone actually good tuning(which is what overwhelming majority of the gaming headphone dont do...or they do..they bass boost the driver so it sound muddy)", "he did say \"most sellers\" didnt he?", "that guy in the video owns one of the largest audio measurement websites. go check out [https://crinacle.com](https://crinacle.com) . he only recently started posting to youtube regularly. so he's new to youtube not the other way around. check his socialblade you'll see exponential growth.\n\n&#x200B;\n\ni suggest you do a little bit of research before going full toxic mode on someone.", "you have any thoughts about something like sonorworks reference where it applies an eq to your specific headphones that flatten it (more or less)?", "> I have one flat response set of monitors I use to tweak my audio tracks and that is it... I see flat as work oriented gear and tuned as enjoyment oriented gear.\n\nI still don't understand why so many audiophiles are afraid of doing a little EQ. Good high quality headphones will have a LOT of flexibility on tuning them yourself. My planar 400i's sound really good out of the box, but they sound excellent when I put [AutoEQ](https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq) profile on them.", "Perception is all there is in the audiophile world. Their ears can surpass all known measurement techniques -- which is how you get people unironically saying \"these cables sound great!\". When I was in the industry, I sat through painful story after story about how someone's magical ears could hear the difference between cables across not only outside of a closed door, but on a different floor of the house. \n\nEven in their own hi-fi mags like stereophile, they've done null tests where they tune one amplifier (a cheap one) to mirror the response curve of another (a very expensive one) and then listen to them both over the course of weeks. For those who don't know, 'nulling out' gear means making their signals so similar, that if you invert the phase of one, it cancels out the other. Despite them being similar in every way measurable, they eventually were able to use their magic ears to detect a distinct \"thinness\" in one of the amps, further a lack of 'brightness' in the top end, overall \"less percussive\" and other nonsense. And of course, it was the cheaper amp that had all these flaws. These people drive me insane! \n\nSuper critical listening in an A/B/X environment is the quickest way to cure any magical audiophile thinking. It's the only thing that prevents the feeble human mind from tricking itself into being sure that it can hear things that aren't there.", "Requirements to be an 'audiophile': Be able to hear.", "Downvote ads", "I know what you mean. It’s the head knocking between people who enjoy hifi for “enjoyment” and people who demand hifi only be able in its purest “original” form.\n\nI know tons of hifi users who think like I do and enjoy good sounding “house tuned” speakers and headphones and welcome the use of EQ. It’s really not a rare mindset tbh, but depending on what forum visit or youtuber you see you may stumble into a purest camp and they will burn you at the stake for liking anything but pure neutrality unfettered by any EQ.\n\nTheir idea of music is straight from the musician, unchanged, and directly to their ear. In theory I respect that, but in practice it’s not the way it ever works.\n\nPeople like this tend to completely ignore the fact that an audio engineer was tweaking all the tracks anyway when he did the final mix (including the use of EQ and compression, effects, etc). What you’re getting is the Audio engineers creative interpretation of what the audio should sound like to them and limited to the quality of the gear they used when they recorded it (their mics and monitors, etc).\n\nWhen you realize this, to me it seems like nonsense to not welcome the usage of an EQ if it adds enjoyment to a track/album. To be honest you may need to hand tweak the audio to get it to sound right on your specific equipment anyway since it’s not what the original engineer used to do the final mix on anyway.", "it litterally as objective as what are bad what are good as you can really go...(and it the most straight forward...)", "I was shocked that their producers didn't buy them a blue yeti or something. I get that the hosts never had to deal with the tech side before but it was hilarious how Jimmy Fallon's audio quality was worse than most 13 year olds on youtube.", "How does it work with things like Valves and tubes? I had a mate who sent his large expensive Manley set-up to someone to burn-in or condition his valves and tubes. Not sure if thats 100% correct but something like that. Then he had to play a certain amount of music to get the system to its optimum quality.", "Most of those Tiktoks are just ads, so that makes sense...", "I got money from my work for a home office setup. First thing I bought was a condenser mic and interface for it. I couldn't find a good camera due to the shortages, though.\n\nPeople joked a bit that I looked like I was filming a podcast all the time, but I had at least 5-10 people reach out to me after meetings asking what I was using since I sounded so much better than everyone else in the call.", "The bottle neck for you won't be your mic but the audio compression that zoom applies. You can be taking your zoom call in a pro recording studio and your voice will still sound like you're sitting inside a tin can on the other side due to.... audio compression.\n\nI think zoom now DOES offer an option of recording hifi audio on your end, but if the people on the call have their settings tweaked for performance/latency then they'll still receive compressed audio.", "The dude has reviewed over 1000 audio products and is a legend in the audiophile community. Anything I think or say will not be as useful compared to what he says as I simply have not tried the things he has tried. Either way, the person you replied to asks the person in the video (or at least OP) for an alternative, and yours directly oppose them.\n\nBesides, it's not even true! The bose and xm3/4 and so on are considered mainstream, not \"high-end consumer\" as you write.", "What did you do for your mic mount? Desktop or boom arm? I have a shure ksm32 but I'm not sure how best to position it on my desk or if an arm would get in the way.", "I have a shure ksm32 which stands taller than yours. I'm not sure what mount would work best for it. If I had yours I'd get an arm.... Not sure if an arm works best for mine though.", "Most of these reviewers worshiping bass remind me of the gaming bros who are always chasing after the highest refresh rate on a monitor (the kind you look at). Sure, they might find what they're looking for, but those monitors are objectively terrible, often only being able to display thousands of colors (not something quite as noticeable when the image is moving fast). And good luck finding one with any sort of color accuracy.", "I think people are convinced there is some sort of 'magic' that you hear in the studio and the only way to reproduce it is through the flattest response attainable.\n\nAll nonsense of course.\n\nEdit: I seem to recall Beats using this as a marketing point earlier on. \"Hear the music as the artist intended...with the bass boosted way, way up\"", "Quick shoutout to CarterPCS! \n\n\nI don't know you.\n\nI don't watch your TikTok.\n\nI appreciate you for being honest in your opinion even though you are not an expert.", "Reminds me of experienced audio engineers working with bands. Often bands will ask them to change settings to get a sound they like, and the audio engineer will jist pretend to fiddle with stuff and ask if thats bettee.", ">Sure, they might find what they're looking for, but those monitors are objectively \n> \n>terrible, often only being able to display thousands of colors\n\nI can just as easily say that your \"good\" monitors are objectively terrible since they can only update 60hz and I want more than that for gaming. \n\nDifferent people have different needs.\n\nI don't do any graphics work so I couldn't give a fuck if the green in my monitor isn't the most accurate green there is", "Share the details! We’re creating a ‘demo space’ at work because of the success of demo/training via Teams. It’s saving us a fortune in travel but we want a ‘pro’ level of sound. Currently just using Jabra 65 wireless headsets.", ">I still wish he would have recommended an alternative to XM4 though, for his own channel growth \n\nDid you not see the list he keeps updated? \n\nImagine being a fan, and listening to his videos just to hear the same recommendations over and over? All this just so you, a person who barely even watches him, can get his info in 5 seconds flat. You're literally asking him to ruin his channel for your one temporary, immediate need. \n\n\"For his own channel growth\". Lmao", "Burn in is technically real for some speakers/drivers. It's just about the initial stiffness of the materials or adhesives being made a bit less stiff. \n\nThink of it like folding a business card or sheet of paper. The first fold it crisply resists, but subsequently folding back and forth doesn't make much difference at all. \n\nHow much does it exist? Depends on the materials but very little, and probably in most cases, not detectable in a blind listening test. \n\nKeep in mind that sounds are oscillations of up to several thousand \"folds\" per second, so any initial stiffness would be worked out pretty quickly.\n\nThe effect is probably also size dependent, so headphones would be the least affected.", "I did a ton of rigorous A/B/X testing way back when I had had perfect hearing and before studies on this could be readily found. \n\nTurns out wires make no difference. None. Amplifiers, the difference is more in the tone than the quality. To put it another way, a trained, focused, motivated tester could tell one amp being different from another, but couldn't tell which one was \"better\" or worse. \n\nThe huge difference is with speakers. Nothing matter more than having decent speakers.", "Lol and there are plenty of other audio reviewers who have reviewed 1000s of products who very much recommend the earphones/headphones I did for that price. And Ya buddy, they're considered high end by the mainstream, which is why I put \"high end consumer\" in quotes. Obviously there's a whole level higher where headphones can cost 4 figures but that's not what he's asking for. He's asking for under $500 wireless recommendations.\n\nGrab 10 people off the street and ask them if $300 would be considered high end for them. Pretty sure 9/10 are gonna say it is, because that's the most they've ever spent on headphones and most likely is the most they'll ever reasonably spend, if they don't get sucked into the audiophile hobby.\n\nHonestly my guy, I think you're worst than I am. First off, do you expect Crinacle to come in here and personally recommend headphones to the person who asked? If I'm not Crinacle, am I just not allowed to give my opinion?\n\nAgain, you fail to even suggest one alternative to my suggestions. Why don't you stop sucking Crinacle's dick, get your own audio products, and form your own thoughts. Guess what? Some people love bassy headphones. Crinacle obviously like his flat, accurate headphones, but some people love V shaped headphones. It all comes down to preference and what you enjoy listening to. The fact that you don't understand that shows how little you know about audio products.", "Ruin his channel? He does that well enough himself", "I'm not aware of a mechanism that would improve the response of valves over time, they're already pretty non-linear to begin with", "those 240p cameras will be the death of me", "Behringer C-1 and a USB mixer that supports phantom power. You're miles ahead of most anything out there for $100.", "my man is correct. the koss headphones are cheap, and amazing sound quality.", "I use a boom arm so I can move it out of the way when I'm not using it, it's just clamped on the side of my desk", "I bought [this mic + stand kit](https://www.amazon.com/Condenser-Microphone-Professional-Windscreen-Broadcasting/dp/B07YBZB88N/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=uhuru&qid=1635181797&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A17SGU0QH8X346&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzU1NLVVlEUkZSMUc1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzg1MTY2U1dRSkJNMFlWNTRZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MTE5OTMzUVZMR1I5NkU0SzNaJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==), but ended up replacing the mic recently with [this AKG one that had a bit better vocal quality](https://www.amazon.com/AKG-P120-High-Performance-Recording-Microphone/dp/B00M9CUOKI/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=akg+condenser&qid=1635181891&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUlozN0VYQTIwMVYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAzMTg3NjYxUUc0N0YyVDE1QkdZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTEwMDQyODMyVTBKT1dVVTBPVVZEJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==), and I use the [focusrite 2i2](https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarlett-Audio-Interface-Tools/dp/B07QR73T66/ref=sr_1_5?crid=18CA7GYJYNXU2&dchild=1&keywords=focusrite+scarlett+2i2&qid=1635182008&sprefix=focusrite%2Caps%2C240&sr=8-5) as my interface.\n\nI also do some music making so my setup is probably a bit over the top for most people. \n\nThere are much cheaper kits with USB-based microphones that should sound similar to my setup, but I like having the external interface for my purposes. [This AT2020-based kit is also an excellent option, and still includes the external interface](https://www.amazon.com/Technica-Condenser-Microphone-AudioBox-Interface/dp/B07YGMJL2N/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=condenser+microphone+bundle&qid=1635182093&sr=8-13).", "Which model?", "Sure, and there are use-cases for extra bassy headphones. The problem is when fans of extra bassy headphones shit all over good ones that actually have solid response rates across the spectrum. Same goes with gaming monitors. You want a fast monitor, that's fine. I have a problem when people cargo-cult a single feature (like heavy bass or fast refresh rates) to the point where that is the only measure of whether something is \"good\" or not, and then beat others over the head because they're not optimized for that one favorite feature.", "The one that came with [this kit](https://www.amazon.com/Condenser-Microphone-Professional-Windscreen-Broadcasting/dp/B07YBZB88N/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=uhuru&qid=1635181797&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A17SGU0QH8X346&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzU1NLVVlEUkZSMUc1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzg1MTY2U1dRSkJNMFlWNTRZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MTE5OTMzUVZMR1I5NkU0SzNaJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) but I’ve since upgraded the microphone", "> Lol and there are plenty of other audio reviewers who have reviewed 1000s of products who very much recommend the earphones/headphones I did for that price. \n\nReally? Who are these unpaid and therefore unbiased reviewers that have their own ranked databases with over 1000 headphones and IEMs, and where can I read their lists? \n\n> they're considered high end by the mainstream\n\nThis is a comment section for a video from an audiophiles perspective. Why is the mainstream relevant? And why, if you can get better in that price range, would you be recommending mainstream shit?\n\n> First off, do you expect Crinacle to come in here and personally recommend headphones to the person who asked? If I'm not Crinacle, am I just not allowed to give my opinion?\n\nThe guy you replied to writes \"you\", meaning either OP or crinacle. You are neither and are recommending literally the opposite of what crinacle and I assume OP would recommend, as OP linked a crinacle video. Since you have complete opposite opinions from the people who the guy asked, maybe this isn't the thread for you to post your recommendations in. \n\n> Why don't you stop sucking Crinacle's dick, get your own audio products, and form your own thoughts. \n\nYou seem like you are just a hater, so I'm not sure why I'm still here. But whatever, I do have my own thoughts. I have listened to the ones you recommended and most of what the mainstream had to offer just before covid hit in 2020 and I think most of it isn't good enough sound wise. There are headphones that are passable as a whole kit, for example the xm3, but I wouldn't recommend anything without any info from what the person is seeking. I would like to try the xm4, but covid shut down all in store demos in my city, I haven't been travelling during covid, and since I don't have any need for wireless headphones I will not be buying a pair for fun.\n\nAnyway, when it comes to actual recommendations, how do you know that the person wants bassy headphones without asking? The person is posting in a thread for a video from an audiophile. Are you SURE you should be assuming that mainstream is what is wanted here? You even say it yourself, sound is personal. Giving a recommendation based on zero information about what the person seeks is dumb, and the best recommendation is to tell the person to go to a store and listen to different stuff, which is what crinacle does. That is much better advice than recommending something specific based on absolutely nothing. ESPECIALLY when your advice is the momentum 2, which according to crinacle is the worst pair of headphones that Sennheiser makes. Either way, asking \"what do you seek?\" is a better first post than recommending something.\n\n> The fact that you don't understand that shows how little you know about audio products.\n\nYou assume that the person you replied to wants mainstream when he is commenting in a thread about audiophile stuff, but sure, the fact that I didn't recommend something means that I know nothing about audio products.", "Lol what is up your ass? I told the guy to check out 3 different headphones, did I tell him to go out and buy a XM4 today? I think its pretty fair to assume someone asking about recommendations under $500 for WIRELESS headphones is probably not an audiophile. If he said wired, then my recommendations would obviously be very different. if you're done ranting nonsensically, would love to hear your actual recommendations for wireless headphones under $500 or shut the fuck up.", "Whatever you do, don't take this guys words for granted. Go to a store and test stuff out yourself, that is always going to be better than just taking a random guys words for granted.", "> Lol what is up your ass? \n\nNice list of reviewers. Having a hard time finding them inside yours?\n\n> I told the guy to check out 3 different headphones, did I tell him to go out and buy a XM4 today?\n\nYou gave him three very similar headphones with no major deviance from mainstream what so ever, good job.\n\n> I think its pretty fair to assume someone asking about recommendations under $500 for WIRELESS headphones is probably not an audiophile.\n\nHow would you know what without asking? Why would you make assumptions about that at all when you can just ask what someone is looking for?\n\n> If he said wired, then my recommendations would obviously be very different.\n\nReally? Different how? Would they be outside of the mainstream? Or would they just be the top 3 from techradar like your wireless recommendations? Because if they were, the words \"google it\" is actually more useful advice than the one you give.\n\n> if you're done ranting nonsensically, would love to hear your actual recommendations for wireless headphones under $500 \n\nCan't you read? Giving recommendations without information about what the person seeks is dumb. And as I tried to tell you (well, \"tried\" is an understatement as it should be pretty clear in my previous post, but whatever), I haven't tried anything outside the mainstream due to not needing wireless headphones during covid. But even if I had done so I would still have recommended going to a store to get first hand experience. Unlike yourself, however, I am honest with this fact. Do you want me to give you advice within the mainstream?\n\nActually, how about you give me your recommendations you have outside the mainstream, since you seem to have experience there. As someone who haven't tried stuff outside the mainstream I am interested in what is out there. Of course, if I was looking to buy I would just go to a store, but I am not looking to buy, so that will not happen.", "You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Prove me wrong but for actual audiophile headphones, the wireless versions are outshined by the wired versions and the ones really worth getting are not going to be in his $500 price range.\n\nHere I'll actually give you recommendations for wired since I'm not the one arguing about shit he doesn't know (which you pretty much even admit and shows when you take one person's word as fact in such a subjective field like music. I'm not a Crinacle hater, I reference his shit all the time but I don't just take his word and run with it). I'll also give them to you because it's a good starting point for when someone is searching. Or do you want me to be fucking customer service for you and take the whole day to figure out exactly what the fuck you like? Under $500 check out the Sundaras, the HD 660s, and the Audeze LCD 1. Again, check them out, not go buy them right now. Also good luck finding all of these at a store to test them out.", "The only thing with tubes is you want to match their transconductance as closely as possible, within reason. Running and heat cycling the tubes before matching them can help make sure they don't drift too much during the first several heat cycles since it's still a physical structure of wires and plates. But you wouldn't send your amp off for this, just buy matched tubes from a vendor. And of course they don't have to be perfect either since you can level any small imbalances with the bias controls.", "chifi sellers tend to have smaller return windows (if any), which some can argue is the biggest growing market right now in the audio community.", "Thanks for explaining this. Good info to have for the future.", "Sure thing. I keep my grandpa's Dynaco ST-70 from ~1960 running in my 2-channel setup. There's a lot of mystique and superstition around tubes and super expensive amps that use tubes that people feel they need to spend obscene amounts of money to have some tube wizard make work right. But the beauty of tubes is that they're actually simple and imperfect. They need maintenance, but it's like maintaining an old Alfa Romeo, not a Ferrari.", "Lol you are hilarious. Did you realize you're talking out of your ass so didn't want to reply to my last comment, Mr. \"never tried anything outside the mainstream but just gonna argue about it like I'm an audiophile\"?\n\nDo you realize I'm the only person in this thread that has given multiple headphone recommendations? I recommended QC35 because this guy was talking about COMFORT.\n\nAnd you fucking twat, what store do you go to that has all these headphones, including audiophile ones, that you can \"TrY tHeM oN aNd TeSt It\", especially in the middle of a pandemic. Tell me you've never bought anything outside the mainstream without actually telling me. Jfc", "When you decided to do something completely different and once again reply to stuff that aren't there I realized you weren't reading properly, and figured there was no point in continuing. I started writing a reply anyway but then went \"fuck this, he's not going to read this\" and moved on.\n\nYou call me a twat, but I LITERALLY write \"just before covid hit in 2020\" in my post. On top of that I told you why I was looking at the mainstream stuff, I told you what I thought about the stuff I tested and I told you that my personal need/desire for wireless headphones went away when covid hit. It should be clear from this that 1) I did my testing before covid 2) covid killed my need so 3) I have not been looking for wireless headphones (or any headphones, actually) during covid. Now, with all that in mind, how the hell did you come to the conclusion that I went to an in store demo DURING covid?\n\nLike fuck man, I even wrote in clear text that covid shut down the in store demos in my city. WHY would you be asking what store I went to during the pandemic? There is nothing in my posts that indicates that I have gone to test stuff during covid. I do not understand how you came to your conclusion.\n\nAnd come on, I even give consisent advice to your own, you said that the best thing is to go to a store and test instead of listening to a \"random\" guy on the internet (even though said guy is highly respected within the audiophile community) since sound is personal. This is even more true when it comes to comfort!", "LOL is Covid over? You're the fucking idiot telling people to Go OuT aNd TeSt ThEm. I don't give a fuck when you tested your shit, but please tell us where today we should go to try on and test headphones. And ESPECIALLY if we're talking about actual audiophile headphones, name me a fucking store that has a decent amount of audiophile headphones, in stock and ready to test.\n\nAnd no, you're not really giving much advice, are you? Are you giving any recommendations for a baseline of where someone should start? No, you're not... And you're arguing with the only person in this thread who has recommended multiple headphones to check out as a starting point. Only other 2 answers are literally one headphone answers, one of them not even being wireless. Your advice isn't much advice, it's fucking common sense. Of course you should try something out before fully committing to it, just because someone on the internet said so (whether that's Crinacle or your fucking buddy at Walmart). Give better advice. What did you test pre covid, what were your thoughts on it? At least that would give someone an idea of what it might be like.\n\n\"hey what games should I buy for my new ps5?\"\n\"just try out different games til you know what you like\"\n\nFUCKING OBVIOUSLY. But that's not what they're asking is it? They're literally asking for a rec, give them a few, let them figure out what they like. Your advice is shitty nonadvice.", "Oh, moving the goal posts again, are we? For the purpose of finding the best pair of headphones for you, testing them irl is the best advice. If you take that as \"I need to ignore covid and get to a store NOW\", that's on you, not me. I'm not telling you to go to a store NOW NOW NOW, I'm telling you that not testing before you buy is a bad idea. I could expand this to what I think about buying things online during covid, but no, I will not at this time.\n\nThe covid situation depends on where in the world you are. For example, my country is starting to open up and I'm fully vaccinated since 2 months back. I could probably go test something mainstream this weekend if I wanted to. If you live in Brazil, obviously that is not likely to be the case. Regarding telling you what store to go to, I don't know where you live and I therefore literally couldn't tell you where to find such a store. \n\n> I don't give a fuck when you tested your shit\n\nYou asked me what store I go to during the pandemic, and you obviously think I tested my shit during the pandemic, so yes, yes you do.\n\n> And no, you're not really giving much advice, are you? Are you giving any recommendations for a baseline of where someone should start? No, you're not...\n\nAnd I have explained why multiple times.\n\n> Your advice isn't much advice, it's fucking common sense.\n\nSince you can find your advice among the top results on google, so is yours.\n\n> your fucking buddy at Walmart\n\nI don't live in the US, I have never been to the US, I do not want to go to the US and I do not know anyone working at Walmart. US stores are completely irrelevant to me, and so is the covid situation in the US. I also do not know anyone at the stores I went to in my country. I can list them if you want, but I presume that list would be as irrelevant to you as Walmart is to me.\n\n> What did you test pre covid, what were your thoughts on it?\n\nI told you this already. I wrote that I tested the ones you recommended and most of the mainstream. I also told you that I thought most of them lacked in some capacity. \n\n> \"hey what games should I buy for my new ps5?\" \"just try out different games til you know what you like\"\n\nThat's not how I would do that though. I have already told you how I would do it. It would go more like this:\n\n\"hey what games should I buy for my new ps5?\" \"What are you looking for? FPS, single player adventure, RPG, racing?\" or \"Are you looking for something specific?\"\n\nI would always ask what is being sought after before giving advice, or literally any question that would narrow it down from \"game for PS5\". I wouldn't recommend getting Halo, that much is clear, just like I wouldn't recommend wired headphones if someone is asking for wireless.", "My God you are one dense motherfucker. Great that you guys are starting to open up, but most of the world is either still struggling or recovering from covid. Testing headphones by buying them online is a long process of buying, returning, buying, trying to compare to what you heard a few days ago, repeat for next headphones. Unless you're suggesting someone should initially spend over $1000 dollars to test out headphones?\n\nAre you a narcissist? I actually don't give a fuck when you tested your headphones. I'm asking you where you expect people to go and test it now. Do you think \"buddy at Walmart\" was actually me referring to someone you might know at Walmart? No, I'm saying not to listen to any old dude and take his word as fact.\n\nAnd lol then why don't you ask the guy who asked the question and give him your recommendations? Probably cuz you don't want to go back and forth asking and answering questions all day. Why don't you give better recommendations on where to start if you like what? And don't give me your bullshit of TrY iT oN aNd TeSt It. Give a baseline of where he should start his search.", "> Testing headphones by buying them online is a long process of buying, returning, buying, trying to compare to what you heard a few days ago, repeat for next headphones.\n\nOr you go to several stores and try stuff irl. Which is faster, easier, gives you a better idea of what you like, instant feedback and wastes less time.\n\n> Unless you're suggesting someone should initially spend over $1000 dollars to test out headphones?\n\nAgain, nothing I have written indicates this! I'm suggesting that they should go to a store and test. If that means waiting for it to be safe to do so, wait for it to be safe.\n\n> Are you a narcissist? \n\nFun fact, the only time I have ever gotten this question it was from an actual narcissist who tried to gaslight me into thinking we were the same.\n\n> I'm asking you where you expect people to go and test it now.\n\nI don't, read above reply.\n\n> Do you think \"buddy at Walmart\" was actually me referring to someone you might know at Walmart?\n\nThat is what you wrote, yes? And that is what the words mean, yes? Why would you write \"your buddy at Walmart\" when you actually mean \"a random dude at Walmart\"? That doesn't make sense! There is no point to switching that out!\n\n> And lol then why don't you ask the guy who asked the question and give him your recommendations? \n\nBecause didn't comment here to give him advice in the first place, and even if that was the case I wouldn't have any recommendations outside what you can find on google, and I don't think \"google it\" is something worth putting time into writing. I commented here because I thought your advice was shit, remember? Or did that also pass you by?\n\n> Probably cuz you don't want to go back and forth asking and answering questions all day.\n\nNot sure how to tell you this in a way that you understand it, but I have zero issues asking those questions.\n\n> Why don't you give better recommendations on where to start if you like what?\n\nBecause I haven't asked him what he is looking for? Haven't we been through this already? I think it's dumb to give advice without asking what the person is looking for, unless the person makes that clear from the start. That isn't the case right now, so I would start by asking what he is looking for. Now, I won't do that because I don't have anything that google can't give him already, so my advice would be just as useless as yours (and we wouldn't want two morons giving the same shit advice, would we?). I could tell him to go and test some, but that is apparently bullshit even though you also think that is the best advice. I'm not going to give him any specific models \"to start with\" without asking him what he wants.\n\n> And don't give me your bullshit of TrY iT oN aNd TeSt It.\n\nThat would be OUR bullshit, my friend, since you also think it is the best thing to do.\n\n> Give a baseline of where he should start his search.\n\nNot without asking him what he is looking for, no.", "😂 👌 It's really funny how you try to dodge questions by nitpicking at parts of my sentences. Lol again, what store do you go to that have such a readily available supply of audiophile headphones for you to test? Doesn't have to be in the US. Which one do you go to to test out let's say headphones from hifiman or meze? \n\nGlad to know I'm apparently a crinacle hater cuz I don't just take his word at face value, when you're the one bitching at the one person who recommended multiple headphones as a starting point to look at. Speaks volumes that you can't even give a rec to check out if they might like more accurate detailed headphones more \"fun\" v shaped ones. Don't bother commenting back if you can't even name a single fucking headphone to try out for at least one of these criteria. Least you could do after all your bitching is prove you have at least two brain cells to rub together to know what to Google to just give me one fucking suggestion.", "LOL you're a fucking joke. Here you are recommending the momentum wireless 3 just like I did. And oh no! You didn't even ask what kind of music he likes!", "Don't mind him. This guy has something up his ass where he thinks other peoples recs and advice are not good enough when he can't even give his own recommendations", "No I didn't, I said they rank higher on his audio quality list. Do I really live so free in your head that you are going through my post history?", "Lol living in my head hahaha\nCareful bud, your narcissism is showing again. I read through the thread and saw your dumbass being the bitchass hypocrite you are. Still waiting on an answer to your suggestions for any profile. But I think we both know I'll be waiting forever on that. Funny how the least helpful go around bitching about other people's advice without even being able to give their own opinions because you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about. If you've only listened to the mainstream and you just base all your opinions on crinacle's, it's honestly kinda pathetic how hard you're sucking his dick.\n\nAgain, dont bother commenting back if you're just gonna keep dodging my questions. Where do you go to physically test audiophile headphones in your country, and what suggestions would you make for any specific profile?", "> Lol living in my head\n\n> I read through the thread\n\nI mean yeah, you read through the thread and got so triggered by me telling some guy that the momentum 3 ranks higher on crinacles list that you had to reply. I would say that is pretty much rent free. Also, you literally did this twice when your sad little existance couldn't accept that I didn't want to engage with you anymore.\n\nRegarding the rest, I have a life to manage. I replied to the post above here while taking a dump because it was easy pickin's. Before that I was eating, before that I was cooking, before that I was at work, and before that I was sleeping.", "Hahahahahaha again, why do you think I give a fuck about your life?\n\nYou know what's really pathetic? That you're using \"your life\" (activities that LITERALLY every human being does) as an excuse to reply, when you've had 2 whole days now to just answer my questions you've been dodging. Its funny you don't reply because you know you've been talking out of your ass and can't come with the answers to the questions I'm asking, yet go around telling people not to listen to me, while giving the same exact recommendation for headphones.\n\nIt's crazy that when I see you replied, I already know you're just gonna keep dodging my questions without even having to read it. Come up with a better excuse lol. Congrats on being able to accomplish the most simple of life tasks like cooking, eating, shitting, and sleeping!", "> It's really funny how you try to dodge questions by nitpicking at parts of my sentences. \n\nI'm replying to what you are writing. You still haven't listed the other reviewers with as extensive lists as crinacles.\n\n> Lol again, what store do you go to that have such a readily available supply of audiophile headphones for you to test?\n\nI'm not going to give you any details on my location to any point closer than my country, so you will not get a specific store. There aren't any big hifi chains in my country, just local stores, so even if I just gave you the name of the chain I would be giving you information that could help in narrowing me down, and I'm not going to do that. It's not happening. You will have to accept the fact that the store I was going to go to was (again) closed during covid, period. The closest thing to an answer I can give you is this: When I googled the name of the closed store just now I found several other hifi stores, but none were close to me. So right now I wouldn't go to any store, as I'm not going to travel several hours to test headphones. The store closest to me does have several hifiman models though (and that one is only 3 hours away!), so that one seems like a good bet for hifiman. Actually, it has a Sundara on clearance right now, so I might actually go there and test it out haha. They even write \"available for demo\" haha. \n\n> Speaks volumes that you can't even give a rec to check out if they might like more accurate detailed headphones more \"fun\" v shaped ones. \n\nWell again, I didn't have any information on what is being sought after until literally just now, and I do not want to give random recommendations. This speaks volumes about my integrity, yes. Anyway, when it comes to more accurate and detailed wireless headphones I haven't tried anything that impressed me, but I haven't tried anything outside the mainstream. The B&W PX7 was the pair that were the most detailed in my testing, but it still wasn't great. For v shaped ones I would say the Sennheiser PXC 550 was the ones I found the best. The sony stuff I tried were good in the low areas, but the PXC had clearer mids and straight up higher highs. That model is now outdated though, and I can't speak anything about the 550-ii as I haven't tried it.", "You wrote \"still waiting on an answer to your suggestions for any profile\", when the reality is that I saw both your replies while taking said dump and figured I would reply to that one after this one, as it would take more time to reply to. Since you have apparently scrolled through the thread randomly (normal people do not do that, man, the thread is several days old) it seems like you don't have a life, so I explained that I do have one and I don't spend all day on reddit. I just replied to the other post, and now I'm going to do something else for a few hours, see you later!", "Oh my God I actually can't stop laughing. Way to prove you literally know shit about what you're talking about. If you think the Sennheiser PXC 550 are v shaped, you're absolutely out of your fucking mind.", "Does that mean that we are finally done? :D Just for the record, I'm completely open to being wrong here, it was 1,5 years ago ¯\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I remember enjoying the bass from the Sennheisers, but based on your reaction it is very likely that they aren't v-shaped.", "9/11 was an inside job" ]	156	videos	Painful "Audiophile" TikToks
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qevdz3/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qevdz3/deleted_by_user/	[ "This is so much better than watching politics or the news, thank you for sharing that this exists.", "Neunundneunzig luftballons auf ihrem weg zum horizont...", "Love the aussie man commentary", "Good on the WBF (World Balloon Federation) for mandating helmets in case athletes collide with the balloons.", "The Heelers are the keepy-uppy world champs tho", "r/theocho", "what are the rules for how hard they need to hit the balloon? Seems like they make an effort to give it some height" ]	7	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/xpAvcGcEc0k	/r/videos/comments/qevrpj/how_most_people_argue/	[ "My fav MP sketch. Genius.", "It's in my top five mp sketches", "No we don’t.", ">I could be arguing in my spare time\n\nBasically reddit in a nutshell.", "Haha so true", "No it isn't.", "How have I never seen this before?!", "It absolutely is", "It's part of Monty Python's Flying Circus" ]	9	videos	How most people argue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS-8hWA_XrM	/r/videos/comments/qew3bq/a_young_rottweiler_learning_to_use_the_treadmill/	[ "People putting their dogs on treadmills always felt wrong to me. Like a torture device.", "how? they are running and getting exercise. alot of dogs love it. do you see it as torture when humans do it?", "> do you see it as torture when humans do it?\n\nIf I saw a prisoner chained to one with no ability to control it, then yes." ]	3	videos	a young rottweiler learning to use the treadmill like a champ
https://youtube.com/watch?v=THT8C3yiFC0&feature=share	/r/videos/comments/qewuoo/german_shepherd_wont_leave_owners_side_meet/	[ "My dogs do the same thing every time I'm at their level.", "They are funny :)", "you just know", "pahahaha", "looks like he's trying to help you get from under the sofa, he thinks you're stuck", "Really cool Shepard" ]	6	videos	German Shepherd wont leave owners side, meet Shadow my velcro dog.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6NztnPU-4	/r/videos/comments/qex8hs/a_97yearold_philosopher_faces_his_own_death/	[ "this is a hard watch. it stayed with me for over a year when I first saw it in jan 2020", "I appreciate OP taking time to post this, but it's too damn early and I am barely hanging in there for existential dread right now.", "Good morning, I hope the thought of the meaninglessness of life and the inevitability of death didn't ruin your day.", "I feel conflicted watching this. I find the whole concept of death terrifying. Yet watching this is also soothing, but I don't understand why.", "This was beautiful, thanks.", "Thanks for sharing op", "TL;DW:\nHe asks himself what’s the point of it all. On some level, his answer was to appreciate beauty. Beauty of the trees in the wind, of what he had with his wife, and then at some point you simply wait until you have to say goodbye.", "This reminds so much of a podcast Maurice Sendak (Where the Wild Things Are author) recorded before he died https://www.npr.org/2011/12/29/144077273/maurice-sendak-on-life-death-and-childrens-lit", "Yup", "It's something people have been trying to answer for thousands of years. I think there's peace in not knowing and making the most of the time we get. Would you be happier if you knew for certain what comes next?", "I think that I why I like science. It is okay to say, \"I don't know.\"", "we define our own point to it, do what you want to do essentially", "RIP", "You young people don't need to watch this. I mean it. These things will come when the time is right naturally because it's not about the intellect but the instinct of survival. You cannot outthink death. Just don't do anything stupid to hurt yourself doing your dumb shit challenges and be assured that you will face death. When you get old.", "Yes there's no point. So make your own point to life.\n\nDo you have any hobbies you're passionate about? Do you have any loved ones? Do you prefer being outdoors, or do you enjoy the comfort of your own home? Even the most simple and mundane things that you enjoy can be the thing that gives meaning to your life.", "Depends if your religious. If not, yeah you can only find value in your work and/or family.", "Grim, at least when I get old I'll have the darknet and drugs to keep me entertained", "Additionally: he is now dead.", "I saw this video about a year ago and I think it is quite profound. I think my biggest takeaway is that there are things that he has come to see and appreciate all around him that we can try to see, appreciate and, maybe, not take for granted. I have a deep respect for his awareness that his time is coming, but he still wants to still be around. He has felt a loss that many of us on Reddit are nowhere close to experiencing, in his wife. That part hit me the hardest. Sharing that much time with someone and having them leave you must be like an emotional phantom pain that only time has helped him heal. His words can be terrifying in that they deal with mortality, which many of us here likely don't have to struggle with. But his words are also assuring. That even near the end, there is beauty, purpose, and a willingness to share that never goes away. May he rest in peace.", "you wont get old like that haha", "One mans early is another mans very late. Also not a great time to double up on the dread.", "Maybe I should get a wife", "Life has no meaning save that which we apply to it. Try to enjoy the time you have, find your own meaning. And its perfectly fine to fail in that regard. They don't give us a manual when we are born.", "You need a girlfriend first.", "!RemindMe 10 hours", "Same. There's comfort in knowing that we all have to go through death, some more gracefully than others.", "This was dark and sad :-(\n\nSOURCE: I'm 60", "is it meaningless? The old philosopher just some of the video talking about all the meaning he had in his life, the beauty of things he even saw almost every day. That beauty had meaning to him, enough to remember it. His wife had meaning. His love for her had meaning. But it was all meaning he made.\n\nLife isn't meaningless, and sometimes neither is death.", "Wait until after the winter holidays when they are on sale.", "haha!", "IMO, I have a degree of fear that I'll be taken away from existence without having had ample opportunity to make the impact I desire to make. I know death will come and for that I am ready, but I wish to see another version of myself that does not exist yet, and the thought of it being taken from me without my consent is horrifying.", "2nd hand sale? Good thinking my guy!", "What comforts me is that everyone who has or will lived has died, which means its the one of the thing that truly connects us to all other life on the planet. We don’t share much, but we all share death.", "you need to be talking to a girl first", "Meh. Science paints a pretty plain picture of existence. We are animals who developed complex thinking to survive. Other creatures have too, and likely have consciousness like us, perhaps not quite as complex as us.\n\nAll life is, is a particular arrangement of matter. When that matter is not arranged in such a way, it is no longer \"alive\". It then decays into things or is consumed by other life.\n\nNothing really ever lives or dies and the distinction between a living thing being ONE thing is very arbitrary\n\nWhen you die, many of the things that make you up live on, consuming and growing and transferring energy here and there. The only thing that has died is the idea of you as a singular living creature according to your peers, even though in reality you are a collective of many microorganisms.\n\nMicroorganisms which are undeniably considered alive themselves, and together form \"you,\" are somehow not you once electricity stops flowing through \"you\" in a particular way, and the matter which makes \"you\" up contorts and changes shape, color, and form.\n\nDeath, like life, is meaningless.", "You just brought together Carl Sagan, Greek Mythology, and Nietzsche into one sentence. Bravo right there.\n\nLife has no inherent meaning, and this is a wonderful thing because then we are free.\n\nEdit: But also, free will is an illusion because physics. So where does that leave us?", "The unfortunate truth is that some people don't see the value in living a long and measured existence.", "Not in Vegas.", "Absolutely.", "At risk of sounding cavalier, says you.\n\nWe have no idea what the multiverse has awaiting us after death. The \"nothingness \" argument is self soothing logic. As is mine. The truth is neither of us know.", "> everyone who has or will lived has died\n\nWait, what? Everyone in the future is already dead. Man, that sucks.", "I think the point is entropy. The universe is balanced, but not fair. This planet is an anomoly and not the norm, we're the result of chemicals bashing into each other and happen to figure ourselves out. The universe experiencing itself in a way. Life is fleeting and we're lucky to experience anything at all. Space is just mostly rocks and random atoms hitting each other until sometimes you get a self replicating set of stuff that over time turns into life or sentience. Then it dies out again. Sad but beautiful.", "Don't forget 2,500 years of eastern philosophy.", "It makes me sad to sometimes look at my small children (knowing they have so much life ahead of them) and think that they too will die someday.", "Part of me wanted to reach out or write a letter, only to find he passed a few years back. This one hit hard.", "Oh man the part where he's crying reminiscing about his wife. It makes this video very hard to want to watch again.", "sometimes life can be so rough and tear you up so bad that you lose all interests in your old hobbies, that your long term ambitions boil down to \"leave\"\n\nIt's a tough thing to face in one's 30's", "you did mention the terms God, evil, tragic, happy, battle, meaning. All of these terms from any kind of non-religious, scientifically objective viewpoint do, as Atheists often claim \"that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.\" \n\nIf you don't believe in things you cannot see, then you really can't claim these either. \n\nI do believe in things I cannot see. Love, marriage, happiness, evil, betrayal, etc, and I do believe that these lead to clues to how we can know things of a different nature because there are multiple [forms](https://cognitivetype.com/forums/topic/4-ways-of-knowing/) of knowledge: [procedural](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_knowledge), [perspectival](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism), [propositional](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_knowledge) and [participatory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_theory).\n\nWould invite you to spend a few minutes to [listen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmHXYhpEDfM&list=PL9boiLqIabFgG4BA7kQbZs3FDHNWtWJ4i) to one of my favorite philosphers, [CS Lewis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis)", "Gosh you are so fucking right. I didn't even consider the \"free will\" issue. Due to the nature of how the universe works, our minds and bodies obey the laws of physics and chemistry. There is absolutely no way we have control over mind and decisions. But it feels like we do so I guess there's that.", "Sad to see such unanimous hopelessness and denial of God and the afterlife. \n\nEcclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.", "> meaninglessness of life\n\nBeing alive is the most meaningful thing I'll ever do!", "[ Jump to 03:11 @ A 97-Year-Old Philosopher Faces His Own Death](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6NztnPU-4&t=0h3m11s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: The Atlantic, Video Popularity: 97.65%, Video Length: [18:13])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6NztnPU-4&t=0h3m6s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Young people can get sick and die too. I know several people under 30 who have faced cancer. Old age is a privilege.", ">Or maybe my shit is purple and smells like a rainbow.\n\nSounds like some fanciful rule #34 bullshit right there. Curious phraseology there. How did you come up with that one?", "At the time of writing this, you have 42 upvotes on this comment. Which is somewhat ironic, given that it is the meaning to life, the universe, and everything.", "Maybe not a universal point but that doesn't mean you don't have a point, or you can't make a point, or the point for some may just be being.", "Look, I'm not looking to get into a religious debate by any means, if god and religion answer questions for you and comfort you that is great, but I don't really see hopelessness here. I see people wrangling with meaning, and finding answers of which there are many. Just being can be enough for some in these comments, and that's great too.", "Imagine seeing someone close to death like this grappling with the nature of life and jumping in with \"lol should have made your life about my imaginary friend!\"", "Nah man this is a bad take too, some people do grapple with death through religion and that's fine, the \"imaginary friend\" thing is so smug and demeaning when religion can help people grapple with some things, it's just how this guy approached it that sucks.", "Thank you mate.", "They better have that Black Mirror upload your brain to The Matrix shit by the time I'm 97 or I'm going to be really angry.\n\nOr better yet just cure aging.", "That’s the sad part. We are born just a bit to early", "A grammar mistake on the internet? Thank god you came along to mock them for it. #betterplacenow", "Because there is no intrinsic value to one’s life. \n\nWe’re all collecting dew drops in a bucket knowing that it will be taken from us and emptied on the ground where someone else will come pick it up and start filling it up again. \n\nWe tell ourselves stories to not give up on the task immediately and we get entranced by our own tale. \n\nThis old man, despite his career as a philosopher, stayed in love with the water (and the collecting) until the very end. Can’t blame him for that is all he (and pretty much everyone else) has ever known.", "> The \"nothingness \" argument is self soothing logic.\n\nReligion is self-soothing logic. Nothingness sucks compared to eternal bliss in heaven.\n\nBut there's no compelling evidence in support of any religion.", "We might make it.\n\nI'll settle for non-destructive cryonics to be revived later.", "Jesus, it was a joke since everyone is getting so philosophical about the past, present, and future. And rather grim about it.\n\nYou only thought it was mocking because you wanted it to be mocking.\n\nEither way, it's not the grammar I focused on anyway, but the future being dead. If I had focused on your grammar I would have said \"it's\" not \"its\". It's not possessive. See? That's a grammar correction. And I did not do that.\n\nSHEEEEEEEEEESH", "One can see how ignorance, feigned or otherwise, can lead to issues though, no?", "Oh a selective pedant. Neat!", "exactly, somehow it just gives me the feeling that ok I'm here, might as well enjoy the fuck out of it.", "One of the most interesting things about being an agnostic. \n\nWhen this ends, we get to find out if there's anything beyond our experience of this life. The only sadness I see in it is if there is nothing, I won't even know it.", "Hope by definition is about the future. There is unanimous agreement here that there is no future after death. Therefore: unanimous hopelessness.", "Trying to use logic and reason to understand death is like using a spoon to chop down a tree. Death is unique as it transcends constructs like logic and reason, because death operates on the emotional level of self. To use reason to invalidate or salve the hurt associated with death is just a different form of avoidance/denial.\n\nSimply put understanding death is to understand our own emotions and the realization that all things are impermanent. If we were all totally logical we would have no connection, no desire to hold on to anything. It is because of our emotional nature that we hold on and try to keep close things that will ultimately fade. But, it is because of our attachments that generate meaning. It is because of our attachments that we make progress, to improve our world, to better ourselves and others.", "Oh, an easily offended person with a chip on their shoulder. Even neater!", "All reasoning away death is as I said (or tried to imply).", "This has always been my take on it as well. There's no reason to fear death from a reasoned stance: nothing is nothing and you can't be scared of nothing. But the Fear remains.\n\nBiologically, I think, in a truly Darwinian sense, we are _built_ to fear death. If we weren't, we'd walk into danger without hesitation and likely perish as a species completely. Or even from the perspective of all living things: there would be no 'life' without the fear stimulus to death. Why that is, becomes a more mystical question I think. That gets into 'why are we here' stuff. Why life? Why is there existence?", "I'd be careful about that. \n\nI mean, this guy had a wife and now he's dead.", ">At risk of sounding cavalier\n\nNah, just ignorant.\n\n>We have no idea what the multiverse has awaiting us after death\n\nThe electric charges of the computing and storage circuits in your brain dissipate and your brain gets bricked. We have a pretty solid idea of how it happens, and have recorded it in practice many times.\n\nThe only wiggle room afterlifers get is that at the time of dying, your subjective perception of time gets drawn out and these last moments as oxygen in your brain is exhausted may give you plenty of time to think. For those whose life wasn't virtuous, this time might be pure Hell. Those whose life was, might instead let things to and die in \"bliss\" (more like incomprehensible mess of inane visual and auditory hallucinations) of asphyxiation.", "/r/iamverysmart", "says you", "I'm rubber and yer glue.", "Damn, you got me. :(", "https://ameriburn.org/public-resources/find-a-burn-center/", "I don’t think so man. We’re too far away. Think of the progress we’ve made in the last 50 years. We’ve just improved things that already existed, made them bigger faster quicker smaller etc.", "I couldn't watch it past seeing edema afflicted feet. My father has heart failure and deals with that (though he's kept it in control) and I don't want to think about certain realities.", "There are two options : Either human intelligence ultimately owes its origins to mindless matter; or there is a Creator. It is strange that some people claim that it is their intelligence that leads them to prefer the first to the second. - John Lennox.", "I spent my morning today with a relative who is dying slowly, and my afternoon with one who may be dying quickly. They are both going through this thinking and exploration in different ways and different times. \n\nI wouldn’t say that any is right or wrong. It seems to me that at the end of life we all explore what it has meant for us, and what it will mean to leave it behind. I feel that we all have a subjective truth, subject to our life and experiences, and therefore no one can find the one truth or answer. We all have our own. \n\nThis video was really good for me to watch right now, thanks OP.", "beauty is a great one to fix on. appreciate the beauty around you for the time we have.\n\nthe concept of death is rightfully terrifying. not much we can do except prepare for the inevitable and see what beauty we can, while we're here" ]	88	videos	A 97-year-old philosopher faces his own death
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qexlca/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qexlca/deleted_by_user/	[ "save your breath for when you have something meaningful to say", "no one will ever love you", "\"who are you to take away the joy I get from wearing an Anne Frank costume?\" really dude? really?" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qexm1t/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qexm1t/deleted_by_user/	[ "I listened to that and now i'm smoking a cigarette leaning on a lamppost in the rain waiting for some dame to show up.", "Sounds great - not quite Chet-Baker great, but would definitely listen again...\n\nedit: not sure if my comment comes off as faint-praise... Rather, I 'd say that listening to this immediately made me think of CB. Your sound is great.", "Nice", "Reminds me of the Music in Sim City or Sims", "Bubble mutes are cool and bossa nova music slaps like nobody’s business", "But what if I hear something smoother tomorrow?", "What's the round thing at the end of the trumpet?", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mute_(music)", "It is a Harmon mute. Well might be a bubble mute, but in the same family.", "Lol why does your description match the music so well", "You're going to die before that can happen, this is an omen.", "[I basically pictured this in my head.](https://i.redd.it/o61k3nhewi221.jpg)" ]	12	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qey70o/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qey70o/deleted_by_user/	[ "[name a more iconic duo than white liberals and pro-outgroup bias](https://imgur.com/IraW6pz)", "This video is personally attacking 90% of Reddit users.", "Goddamn, bell curve liberals do NOT understand marketing. “Black-trans-queer-climate-(dog howling noises) ruru-live change matter” is too many words for a t-shirt.", "\"Shout out CashApp - the best way to send reparations\" lmao", "I doubt many people that self identify as liberal would ever support this kind of nonsense. These are fringe goons.", "i cant handle more than 60 seconds of this", "It must be liberal because it sure as hell isn't Marxist or socialist. Or maybe they've transcended politics entirely.", "Yup, most of the people we can't tolerate are on the fringe, i.e. extremists. The left and the right are curating more and more extreme view points.\nFor your own health, just ignore them. \nHorseshoe theory.", "These people are racist", "From my narrow observation, one group doesn't know how to give proper help because they're native and the other group doesn't know how to accept help because they're bitter.", "Imagine volunteering the first time and learning it was just for a basketball court across the country.", "Not all leftists are liberals. These people are socialists, if you watch the video they make it plain as day", "I bet the furniture is overpriced too.", "But at the 60 second mark, the reporter zips up his fly. You stopped too soon. It becomes a satire piece", "I’ve only seen a few of the channel 5 segments before, but they were all with that Andrew guy. Does this host do any other videos? He’s damn hilarious.", "These are twitter people.", "Not all beeps are boops. All these words are the same to me.", "Hell yeah brother.", "I couldn't watch this. I support BLM and things like that but these people seem to have some serious white savior issues.", "This is his first appearance, I think he's been a producer before. Can't wait to see more from him.", "I am not sure who I find more retarded. The people in the Hollywood Antivax Rally video or the people in this one.", "I feel for them, they have good hearts but they are bonkers. \n\nAmerica should really invest more in black schools and areas, I don’t think that’s a terrible idea, call it reparations sure.", "Raising money to build a basket ball court in St. Luis? Fucking memes dude.", "The second i saw that on the BLM website they supported abolishing the \"western nuclear family\", I realized they didn't support black lives.", "But there is no correlation between government spending and success in school. It comes down to the communities valuing an education or not.", "Both groups are pretty silly.", "The other 10% where offended that they were making fun of anti vaxxers at the start. Reddit, the website of people getting offended by everything.", "That's because BLM is organized by fucking nut jobs. The movement has merit, the leadership needs a paddlin", "You mean anti vaccine, like the measles type anti vaxxers? Or do you mean people who don't support a mandate? Because those two things are not interchangable.", "Andrew Callahan started the youtube series All Gas No Breaks. It is and was super popular. He has since lost the name for legal reasons. Now his youtube is Channel 5 with Andrew Callahan", "Hello other 10%er.", "You’d think it would help though wouldn’t you? I mean better teachers and facilities should help kids learn. I guess if your family is poor and doesn’t value education what can schools really do.", "In my mind, reparations isn't about cutting a check to cover \"pain and suffering\".\n\nThey aren't asking for handouts.\n\nThey are asking for a level playing field.\n\nInvest in services that address the needs they have so that they can simply exist with the dignity they deserve.\n\nThey don't want food stamps. They want grocery stores. They don't want affirmative action. They want better schools. They don't want unemployment. They want jobs and training.\n\nJust my .02, who fuckin knows.", "This is just a great bit of reporting from Channel 5", "Bull shit.", "Can you explain what this figure shows? The language is hard to understand.", "WTF, how come reddit didn't downvote this to hell", "Both are silly. \n\nOne is definitely more silly than the other though. And it's probably the one thinking that a vaccine during a pandemic is being used for population control.", "Found the dude that thinks he's being personally attacked on reddit lmao", "Lmao you're a fucking idiot.", "46 comments and everyone is already scrambling to stick the political label of their choosing on this. As if irrational and estranged behavior is somehow limited by the magical fence of political labeling. \n\n\nI personally think someone has set up some serious satire here.", "Would love to hear why that’s laughable, actually wait, no I don’t, fuck off.", "What the guy said: \"I appreciate you, your heart's in the right place.\"\n\nWhat the guy then thought: \"Shame you're mental though.\"", "Oh no I vote for democrat stuff, it’s just that so many of them want to separate themselves into smaller groups so they can feel better about whatever. I don’t want to learn the names because it seems like they’ll change it again and then get mad that I didn’t sign up for the email blast to learn all of it. It’s just bad marketing. That one lady talked about black climate change. Bro.", "Maybe they’d be more reasonable if cops weren’t killing them.", "Careful, the Qs were fringe goons and then…\n\nBut if these people are only guilty of having cringe slogans and t-shirts I guess it’s not so bad.", "One is silly and tiny minority, the other’s message is pretty dangerous and they have real backing in society among antivax politicians, celebrities etc", "Because Reddit isn't as liberal as we try to make it seem", "I've never seen this before so I don't know the context or how the survey was conducted, but what the graph is showing is that other ethnic groups are 10-15% more positive to others within their own ethnic group than average, whereas white liberals are on average 13% more negative toward their own ethnic group.", "Yeah, it's a weird way to show it but I'm guessing it's the mean difference of in-group bias vs out-group bias. So if the mean in group bias level in white liberals is 15 and the out group bias is 30, then 15-30 is -15. But for Blacks, it may be in group bias of 30 and out group bias of 15 (30-15=15).", "Wow the other user wildly misrepresented their stance", "oh , but I'm getting downvoted to hell. I guess it's because Reddit if all inclusive of all opinions and views.", "Wow that was easy", "It’s a useful thing to widen narrow perspectives", "Not as liberal", "Hey mods, where are the politics? You don't get Andrews channel if you think this is political, he's a documentarian of crazies of all stripes.", "THAT'S WHAT A LIBERAL WOULD SAY", "The part around 9:00 lmao", "Cops are killing everyone, not just black people. And cop killings have fuck all to do with nuclear family, or half the shit BLM officially stands for. They lost my support as an organization just days after the Floyd protests started because the unrelated garbage they push.", "Bro, why did you say \"bell-curve liberals\" if you have no idea what any of it means?", "Nah I don’t live in Missouri sooo", "How are you going to tell me to fuck off when you’re the one who commented on my comment? Are you okay?", "Yeah, what I said. They try to use long sentences and big words to confuse the dumb people into a way that you can weasel out of any criticism. Slow down and take that sentence word by word.", "This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.", "So some of them believe we should return to a more community based society. That’s the hill you’re going to die on against a group protesting police brutality?", "Lmao reddit in a nutshell.", "Just asking for clarification.", "Uhuru being the organization which held a March in Oakland for a pos who not only killed 4 police officers but was also a rapist of multiple women and girls.", "Yup. People just yell SPEND MORE MONEY OR YOURE RACIST.", "How could you equate not supporting a forced medical procedure to a medication? They simply aren't related and the term in no way describes the people involved. Its strictly a pejorative.", "Lmao you can keep yelling racism, and I'll keep continuing to not care.", "Meh 🤷🏻‍♂️", "Whites are disproportionately killed by cops in comparison to blacks in relation to population. I know you're gunna scream CITATION NEEDED, so go look at FBI crime statistics 2019.", "The greatest threat to African Americans is the White Liberal", "Every one of Andrew's videos is up on this subreddit, even when he had to re-brand, and multiple others, and highly upvoted every time. Swear to god, other than LinkedIn, Reddit is the social media site with the absolute least self awareness.\n\nRegardless of anyone's views of Chappelle's special, notice we're only talking about \"views\" of it, and not actually about it. It was created for the sole purpose of having opinions on, and not for yknow being funny. Can you quote a single line from it? Do you see any memes or gifs or screenshots from it like you would for a special by John Mulaney or Katherine Ryan or Chelsea Peretti or Michael Chae?", "I'm a flaming liberal, watched it, laughed, posted. Weird fucking removal.", "I did, I wouldn't be talking about it if I didn't, I'm not one of those users.\n\nI actually did standup as a side hustle a couple years ago, and to this day I believe Chappelle's Killing Them Softly special is the best written and best performed standup ever done. It's what got me into comedy as a craft. As a kid I grew up very poor, homeless multiple times as a kid, and the only media I had for myself was some Looney Tunes VHSes. You know who Dave Chappelle's inspiration is? From his own words, his number 1 comic idol is Mel Blanc. That's who he took after. I immediately connected with Dave and took after them both. His \"Actors Studio\" interview is something I watch every year.\n\nIMO standups who view themselves as philosophers are the worst standups and the worst philosophers.\n\nYou can't just say George Carlin did it so that makes it okay, because guess what you're fucking not George Carlin. Dave Chappelle is not George Carlin, or Bill Hicks, or Lenny Bruce. It sucks to see, because I've enjoyed segments of his later work but come on, so little of it is insightful in any way. There's so many gay and trans comedians who have made self deprecating jokes a million times funnier than this special. He's just out of touch. It's tough to get that idea across. It's not that he said things that shouldnt be said, it's that he said things that have been said for decades and we (or anyone under 40) are all bored of.\n\nDave Chappelle committed the cardinal sin of comedy. He's lame.", "That's not what people are taking issue with.\n\nThis entire stupid fucking culture war is taking something that is a significant meaningful part of an entire human being's identity, that genuinely has a large impact in how they live their life, yet has essentially little impact on other peoples' lives, and turns it into a conversation topic as if it's up for debate.\n\nI want you to dwell on that for a moment. Let's do it with something else. Work with me here. Say that for whatever fuckin reason, having eyes that are really far apart is controversial. Doesn't matter why, maybe it's phrenology or some shit. You're a human being and you are born and you have eyes far apart. People occasionally make jokes about it. Anything you say, if someone disagrees they call you \"wide eye\" for no reason. None of them are original, you've heard the same 3 jokes for 25 years. Then Jerry Seinfeld puts out a special cementing those lame 3 jokes.\n\nAnd you, as a wide eyed person, work as a paralegal for the agency that represents Jerry Seinfeld. Again, I really want you to put yourself in this person's shoes and relate it to your own life. How, as a human being, do you continue to work and report to a boss (who is also a human being and has a life) who is actively engaged in promoting something that humiliates you?", "I don't need to support the organization to support people not getting executed in the streets. I absolutely will not support an organization run by Marxist idiots who want the state to take control over the family.\n\nHow bout you go make a new, non-alternative motive driven, \"let's stop having cops execute people\" organization and I'll join it. Hell, I'll help bring people in.", "> My people get made fun of on a daily basis.\n\nDemand some respect for yourself then. I don't think people should get made fun of for their height or hair either. I'm tall and have a gorgeous head of hair (its the only good genetics I got), I don't like seeing my short or bald friends get made fun of for it. You deserve better.\n\n> But considering Dave literally had a trans comedian open for him, I don't think you can call his special \"hate.\"\n\nThis is just \"I have a black friend\".\n\nAgain, I'm really not trying to address the special being removed or not. I actually don't quite care about it on that level. I'm just trying to say that it isn't funny. It's not insightful. He wouldn't get off the topic and it was like \"u mad bro?\" for 50 fuckin minutes man. If it was a funny insightful joke about trans people, it would work. The jokes just didnt work. Contrast this with Killing Them Softly where he made one single Elian Gonzalez joke, and it was the best Elian Gonzalez joke of the time.", "inclusive means calling someone a dick. Perhaps you need to look in the mirror", "You should look at my [original comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qey70o/uhuru_march_for_reparations_channel_5/hhwmgrj/). I'm just saying that it isn't funny. I didn't deflect to that, that's what I started with. I'm imagining you dont have any gay or trans friends, because if you did they'd make jokes about being gay or trans that are infinitely funnier than anything from this special.", "That's a cute way of saying black people are to blame for their children falling through the cracks at underfunded schools. Also pretty racist which isn't surprising given the multitude of other comments you've made in this thread. \n\n\n[This shows you are 100% wrong](https://www.today.com/news/millionaire-uses-fortune-help-kids-struggling-town-1c9373666) and that the issue is what kind of opportunities await post education. If post graduating school you have virtually no prospects of advancing in society then what's the point of graduating?", "Politics are when you’re not a centrist", "Nah I’m from Zimbabwe.", "“Yea I fuck with Mali (but he was referring to Molly)”. Best part.", "Yeah this is dumb lol", "The employees who walked out don’t want it taken down or censored. That’s Twitter and Reddit BS obfuscating the actual community that’s doing the real work and fighting an actual fight. As usual. \n\n https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/18/22733098/netflix-trans-employees-demands-dave-chappelle-walkout", "do none white/blacks have to pay for reparations?", "$3.50", "The BLM org has a lot of iffy views, but that isn't one. They aren't fighting for having less people involved, but more people like Grand parents.\n\nA lot of other cultures don't put their parent in homes when they get old.", "All of his other videos are here. It's just this one that is being removed.", "Talk about being a pedant dude. It's a phrase of speech, don't go taking it literally...", "This has been deleted from this sub. While every single other video of his is here.", "anti mask isnt politcs its just retarded", "fucking amen", "you're purposefully missing the point and it's just disingenuous. just like Chappelle you can't pick a lane. either try to have an argument or a serious debate, not both.", "The Uhuru Solidarity Movement is a group of white people created by the black working class and are under the leadership of the African People's Socialist Party. This Andrew person also clearly didn't do his homework. The money isn't going to just a basketball court, it's going to an entire black community to build self-reliance and independence.", "Thank you for this! It's all about creating a system that is not built on the oppression and exploitation of colonized people. Not trying to be a part of it.", "It's not just about a basketball court. That's where this Andrew kid is wrong. Look it up yourself blackpowerblueprint.org", "I'm sure if you reached out to Andrew and provided him backup on that assertion that he would share it, even with just his Pateron. He's a good dude.", "I'm pretty sure he is aware of this. He clearly went to the website where he pulled the information page he shared but didn't bother to share the entire rest of the page." ]	107	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/FzhREYOK0oo	/r/videos/comments/qeyh69/guess_the_future_is_here/	[ "Hopefully not!\n\nHere is a summation of last time this was posted:\n\n* 8 fast-moving blades near your neck\n* Extreme noise pollution\n* Permanently deaf pilots\n* Absolutely impractical range\n* If the power goes you have no chance of surviving. Planes and helicopters can land unpowered", "If I get a flat on the ground, I live to change it. When one of those blades go out, you probably won't get a chance to change it.", "Personal drones! Would doors be too much weight? Can they fit within a parking spot?", "Another toy. And if this music video is anything to go by, a children's toy.", "Battery charge is only 20 minutes. Good luck with that.", "Hmmm\n\n1. 92,000 USD\n\n2. Maximum pilot weight, 210lbs. I'm assuming that's all of your gear and suit weight too.\n\n3. 20 minute flight time\n\n\nDon't get me wrong, I love it. But it's far too impractical, costly, and flight time to be anything but an expensive toy...\n\nAnyone wanna split the costs? 😆", "No, not everyone is a pilot.", "Maybe that's why there's 8? So if one goes out, you still have the other and can have a controlled landing?\n\nEdit: actually just confirmed, there's 8 motors. And it has a launchable parachute.", "I’m guessing at some point we can just program in where we need to go, and it will be the AI taking us rather than needing us to be a pilot. It’s early in development of but it might work.", "The first cars were just as impractical as this, it does look like the future to me.", "This will be the case for sure at some stage in the later future, but until then flying will be linked with serious flying training and examinations.", "> Maximum pilot weight, 210lbs. I'm assuming that's all of your gear and suit weight too.\n\nI guess that as long as I use it on an empty stomach I should be ok...", "Meet George Jetson. \nHis Boy Elroy. \nDaughter Judy. \nJane his wife.", "Well now. I'm not gonna talk about Judy; in fact, we're not gonna talk about Judy at all, we're gonna keep her out of it!\n\n---\n\n- [reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0UhtA_mJE&t=365)\n\n^(I am a bot.)", "Can't wait to see the drone gangs flying around LA at night in about 15 years...", "Well 210lbs is on the heavy side or plainly overweight for most people. I think that's a perfectly reasonable amount of weight to expect a drone like this to carry. \n \nThe other objections are valid. It's a toy for rich people to show off in, not much more.", "Have a poo first, just to be sure.", "If this will be the new standard then it needs to be able to hold a horn from a freight train to operate in India.", "these have been around since the 50's", "Could not have said it better myself. Any thrust problems probably means you die and maybe others. As shitty as people drive, could you imagine air traffic... Also, is this any faster than a car?", "Gotta be high enough for that parachute to matter. The height seen in the video is way to low for the chute to do anything.", "Do you need a pilots license to fly this thing? I'm assuming that you would. Also where can you fly it. Do you need clearance from air traffic control?", "Probably why it’s launched, so it deploys quicker.", "Lol why does this bot exist. Make a then /than bot", "won't matter when flying 20 feet in the air", "That’s true too 😄", "Yep. All these comments poo pooing on it are silly. Of course early devices of this type have all sort of downsides that make then impractical.\n\nWho cares? No normal person is getting expensive prototypes, anyway.\n\nThe point is that something like this creates a blueprint for future models to be improved upon, refined, and tweaked until they eventual do become more affordable and more practical.\n\nReddit's need to reflexively shit on everything can be pretty tiring.", "I'd still rather have a Raleigh Grifter.", "realisticly probably need to be about 200-250 ft for a chute to work\n\nEDIT: cirrus planes need to be about 400 ft or higher for their chute to work", "I’m no aeronautical engineer. I’d wager you aren’t either.", "don't need to be one", "Ok", "hangs arm out window\n\nArm: Aight imma head out", "Just another expensive toy for stupid rich people.", "It’ll never take off. Pun intended.", ">Of course early devices of this type have all sort of downsides that make then impractical.\n\nThis was certainly the case for cars and we are clearly far beyond our initial cars.\n\nThis is different. Some of the major risks and challenges that people are bringing up cannot be circumvented with technological improvements, they are a consequence of physics.\n\nFor example, this vehicle will produce an insane amount of noise. There is no futuristic type of propeller or jet that will get around this. In order to develop this much thrust in a personal vehicle you need to move a huge amount of air. This vehicle will also be VERY dangerous. If a pilot makes a minor error, or an propeller fails the vehicle will fall to the ground. In this form factor it will not be able to land unpowered. The spinning blades will have a substantial risk to kill either the pilot or anyone nearby in the event of a failure or bird strike. This risk will also exist regardless of technological improvements.\n\nOn the other hand, you're correct that some of the downsides can be improved upon in the future. Higher capacity batteries will improve the range and weight limit, but that still leaves us with a very dangerous and impractical vehicle for everyday use.", "Cars don't have to land if they lose power.", "Got a drone filming a drone. 2021", "I don't think helicopters can land unpowered. Well they can land but not in a good way.", "They can, its called [autorotation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5vA3OqnVuc), and is surprisingly controllable", "They can! Depending on the make quite well really. The weight of the heli falling is enough to turn the blades and keep a decent level of thrust going or something, Obviously not forever but it makes emergency landings possible and in a lot of cases a lot safer than an emergency landing in an plane, because the speeds are so much lower. \n\nFun fact, The President of the US isn't allowed to fly in an osprey because its the only aircraft that cant land it self with out power. Planes can glide, Helicopters auto rotate, But the surface area of the bladed on the Osprey and a drone like this prevent it from being able to autorotate effectively enough for a safe emergency landing.", "Does it take off and land without a ground crew? That seems to be missing from the video.", "They can it’s called autorotation", "I’m so happy I live in this Era!!", "and suitcase mode is which button?", ">The point is that something like this creates a blueprint for future models to be improved upon\n\nWhat, something like this quadcopter?\n\nWeird word, that. I feel like I've hear the second part of it before...", "Fuck the tech industry. All they are doing here is reskinning old obsolete technology that has been outlawed and trying to make it seem new and innovative. There is a reason designs like that went into the book of bad ideas. So now all these tech goobers have to find out the hard way that flight isn't a fucking joke.", "Definitely not the future", "Yes! \n60 years ago, a computer cost $800,000 and was the size of a room. \nEarly tech is always expensive, clunky and beyond useless for the layman. \nThis thing is all of those, plus incredibly unsafe. But all we need is some decent computing power to manage the risks of pilot error and battery life, throw in some redundancy, and then one more generational improvement in battery technology to make it legitimately powerful with plenty of reserve capacity and range, and maybe better design for the propulsion system (quadracopter propellers are not very high tech) and something like this could easily become the next ATV/Jetski type of toy. Under $20K and reasonably safe is not hard to imagine for 10 years from now. \nWhether things like this actually become legitimate transportation in the next few decades is less likely, but not impossible once we improve battery storage another 2x-3x and self-driving vehicles becomes the norm. People are commuting to work on One-Wheels today. That would have sounded ridiculous just 10 years ago. \nBTW [We have improved battery storage density by a factor of 3x in just the last 10 years](https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/02/bloomberg-nef-battery-lithium-ion-cell-energy-density-chart-graph-BNEF-e1584816329479.png) and many very smart people are racing to make the next leap forward.", "If they are going to be self piloting than it makes more sense to build something on the ground that can also drive itself. Anything in the air is going to be less efficient, louder, and much more expensive. I doubt any average joe will be flying to work unless it's public transportation.", "If it’s the US you absolutely need a license. You would also need to log a flight plan.", "You could rig the system so that if power is completely cut for some reason, it will trigger a parachute + there's a manual release. It's not a great solution- it would only work at a pretty high altitude for the parachute to successfully come out- but it's better than \"yeah, you're completely fucked\".\n\nI do think this is an interesting concept though just because it would work pretty well for autonomous short trips.", "The last time I saw something like this on the news, it had everything set up so that you program in a destination and the helicopter takes you there autonomously with no user input option.", "No, Yes. With that said, this concept is kinda useless unless they can drop the price to something a lot cheaper than a car.", "It would work far worse than autonomous cars for short trips.\n\nThe only way these things are cool is if you are the only person who owns one. The noise, the wind and the fear of decapitation from everyone else flying around while you do anything outside would be unbearable.", "Console yourself that you're halfway there ;-)", ">\tis this any faster than a car?\n\nOnce you’re finally in the air flying is generally faster than driving. Even if the plane only has the same ground speed as the car it doesn’t need to follow a road instead following a more direct route. Many, probably most, flights have a higher ground speed than legally driven cars. So for cross country a plane of any kind is much faster assuming the weather allows you to fly. \n\nThis thing in the video though… it is a death machine that may offer some thrills but has no practical use.", "But im not rich", "It's a less practical helicopter." ]	57	videos	Guess the future is here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoAA0sYkLI0	/r/videos/comments/qezdqc/dune_director_denis_villeneuve_breaks_down_the/	[ "This is so interesting, and he's right that it'd have looked shit on film for Paul to just walk across the room in a trance. It was done really nicely.\n\nAlso, I love that the director is so clearly a big fan of the books. I've just started the first one, but from all the good reviews the movie is getting from people who liked the books, it seems like he's done a great adaption. \n\nMovie is great, btw. Go see it! There needs to be another one, so it needs to make its money back at least I imagine.", "Foundation was such a disappointment, I was very relieved when this Dune was so great. I personally got this feeling the same time I watched the original Bladerunner for the first time. A new world presented to you in such a grand a beautiful way. Would definitely love to see more of this.", "Man knows his shit", "These video just took me from cautious, skeptical pessimism about the film to near-hype. Villeneuve gets the book. That shot of Paul nearly blacking out as Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohaim's Voice compels him forward, the way he goes from agony to cold rage as he masters his fear, the change in the Reverend Mother's haughty, disdainful expression to where she is the one afraid now. So many perfect little bits there.", "Yeah, I watched it on HBO but I want to go to the movies to see it....think I'll do that.", "This is a movie that deserves to be seen in theaters.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrW_8M3xJow", "You do see some guildsmen.\n\nThey're the ones with the suits filled with brown gas.", "I felt the same when I heard that a Blade Runner sequel was being made. But Villeneuve is a master of his art. I'll never doubt his work again.", "I felt the same when I heard that a Blade Runner sequel was being made. But Villeneuve is a master of his art. I'll never doubt his work again.", "Only thing I really missed from the book was space travel. They were kind of just like \"We are going to dune\" and then they were there.", "sequel has been confirmed", "Source?\n\nEdit: Officially confirmed 2 days after this conversation.", "Really! Wonderful news! Any source on that?", "The sequence that sticks with me is the Harkonnen attack. There’s a shot where a ship is raining hundreds of missiles down on the city, and it’s just shot and edited in this way that feels very matter-of-fact way that makes it more terrifying and powerful.", "If you watched the movie you don't need a source to determine there is a sequel. How could you not? He just joined the freeman, has not ridden Hulud, has not gotten revenge for his family....it is so obvious.", "I think, as film fans, we're lucky to living through the Denis Villeneuve era.", "That means jack shit if a studio doesn't fund it. Just ask Alita fans.", "This story will never be adapted to its fullest potential until it's a series with a Game of Thrones size budget.\n\nDune 2021 seems to have less character development for certain characters and its been split into two monies. Where the 80's Dune seems to have more and the story was squeazed into one movie.\n\nI dunno, I'll have to watch the new one a couple more times, but that was my initial reaction after watching the new one. Like where was the Emperor. Plus I don't think the new movie even explained why no one uses computer based technology.", "He's a real Dune fan and the movie is proof of that", "I really suggest seeing at theaters, i watched at home and all i could think of was this movie would be awesome to see at theaters and believe me when i say, i prefer watching movies at home.", "Alita isn't Dune!", " D U N C", "So what? If the movie doesn't make enough money, it doesn't get a sequel. Period.", "Die hard fan of the book: this is one of the best book to film adaptations I have ever seen. Right up there with Lord of the Rings. Go see it in theatres. I loved every second.", "Disagree entirely with the scale thing. You see the massive spacing guild ships with little specks flying out, then you see those same specks as massive ships on the ground.", "So nice to see that he gets it and can articulate it. His film is amazing, and while I can split hairs about things that I wished he spent more time on or make more real (water scarcity being the main one), the fully committed to making a solid retelling of the story. \n\nThe Lynch movie is pure shit, and I hate that that’s what people who don’t know the book think it’s about. Like people complaining about the lack of navigators. You don’t see them until Edric shows up in what, the second or third book? But no, Lynch loves weird stuff for the sake of being weird, so let’s feature a Navigator for no purpose.", "Villeneuve did all that without a sequel signed. He's taking a massive gamble.", "This says \"all but confirmed,\" which means it still hasn't been confirmed.\n\nhttps://www.ign.com/articles/dune-part-2-all-but-confirmed", "Well the navigators aren’t even described in the book until Dune Messiah. The 1984 movie took some liberties with showing them at all, so I’m fine with holding off on that", "I'm pretty sure the emperor does not appear at all in the first half of the book.", "I think he means that Dune was a superior product so he expects the returns to justify a sequel to be there.\n\nbut either way you’re right. Financial returns need to be there to justify shelling out hundreds of millions for he next movie.", "I don’t really know what you want from it - it trims a lot of what it has to from the book (just like LotR did) and keeps the compelling plot points. Perfect casting. Great score, great visuals. They’re pretty faithful to the story. If you didn’t like the story, then do you even like the book’s story?", "That's what the book did too. They talk a bit about the size of the ships, but skip right over everything. They're just suddenly there. We get more space travel in the movie than the books.", "If you found it cold, it might be a little displeasing to hear someone tell you that the book is pretty cold too. Inspiring, beautiful, and fascinating - but still emotionally cold.", "I'm on my second watch. First watch was Dolby Cinema, this one is HBO Max on a 7.1 OLED setup.\n\n100% see it in theaters. It does not measure up at all at home. But I definitely appreciate the opportunity to watch at home!", "Foundation was so shockingly bad. After hoping so much somebody would treat Asimov with respect. Maybe even Denis will get a shot one day...!", "It's never worth falling for the hype train.\n\nThat said, I went into it with turbonerd levels of expectations and left with only 3 criticisms that will probably be answered for in the next installment.\n\nThe hype is real, prepare yourself.", "In the dune universe, schooling it replaced by years of conditioning to protect you from having or showing an emotion, and I'm only really half kidding.", "The thing is. We have had numerous movies that involve space travel. Modern movie goes don’t need to see it again.", "Yeah there is one shot in particular, Leto's arrival, where I went 'ehhh yeah these are about to be revealed as huge'. \n\nThe edit was great, though, they really held on that shot properly.", "For sure had a sound mixing problem, straight out of Christopher Nolan's playbook. \n\nThe movie was fantastic notwithstanding.", "an Idaho", "Paul : \"do you feel in charge? \"", "I must not hype.\n\nHype is the mind-killer.", "First time someone who has attempted to make a Dune film has actually read the book.", "Same here - Cinema all the way.", "And I want to add that I’m not trying to gate-keep Dune. I’m really just thrilled that such a great film adaptation came out, that is more faithful to the themes of the story, and one that doesn’t just getting swept up in the visuals.", "Saw this in the theater yesterday. I still like the 1980s \"Dune\" despite its many flaws, but the 2021 does a tremendously better job all the way around.\n\n....however, I had no friggin' idea this was \"Part One\" and that there hasn't even been a start to \"Part Two\". Had I known that I might have waited to see this one....and saw it together with Part II.\n\nGood experience on the silver screen. I'll have to watch it on 'normal' TV for comparison.", "Very interesting.", "We saw it in a new Dolby Atmos theater and the air clapped my brain in a sensation that I can only describe as silent thunder when Paul used the voice. We watched it at home on HBO and even with a good sound system it's like an entire layer of audio is missing. \n\nBut I am SO happy we get to re-watch it in the comfort of our own home without having to wait forever.", "Go see it. The movie was great! I watched on HBOmax, and every frame screams \"big screen theater experience.\" It's got such an epic scale throughout the film, the acting is superb, the casting is perfect, and - perhaps most importantly - the film GETS the book. I am beyond stoked for the follow-up; this film demands it.", "I watched this movie three times within a 24 hour period. It is so good.", "I wanted more hawat, we don't get the scene with jessica, which I understand as it adds uneccasery complexity. But hawats capture was one of my favourite scenes from the book", "The navigators aren't even in the first book?", "Yeah, seriously - the early stages of the Harkkonen attack were filmed in such a way that you had weapons and even fucking laser (!) fire raining down from a dark, occluded sky with no way of orienting yourself or getting a big picture of what was happening — you just had the whole universe coming apart around you, everywhere you looked, and each shot was a shock to the system.\n\nThe thing is, that deliberate visual overload matches the Atreides troops' experience of being completely and utterly overwhelmed.\n\nThe places where it does slow down only underline the efficiency of the attack - the Harkkonen and Sardakar troops pincering the Atreides' phalanx on the stairs was a sublime set piece where that happened, for example.\n\nIt's funny, the most \"Holywood\" moment in the entire film was ~~Gurney's~~ Duncan's flight out of the city where his shield generator gets knocked out and they start chasing him with the laser, but even then it doesn't feel forced.", "Absolutely loved the movie, cannot wait to see where the story goes from where it is", "Agreed. Even my son was in awe once he realized his gargantuan those are after seeing the ships on the planet.", "I waited a couple days so my first viewing would be in IMAX. Absolutely worth it. It's so amazing on that giant scene.", "Yeah, AI was banned after it began taking over humankind. The mentats (black line on their lips in the movie) are human computers.", "The new movie demonstrated that the aide with the purple stripe on his lip could do computations instantly in a very early scene. They didn't dwell on it, but it's presented enough that you can understand he was a living computer.", "But with a TV serials comes smaller budgets and no A-list actors, no Hans Zimmer, no Villeneuve, a billion dollars in untapped box office revenue and of course, no fricking cinemas, which is the only possible place to appreciate aforementioned visuals and sound.", "A N\n\nI D A H O?", "Agreed. Dialogue was incredibly low. I turned up my center channel 5 dB just to make it watchable. Too much dynamic range between the quiet scenes (the very early scene where Paul and Jessica have breakfast, for example) and the loud scenes (any scene with music). I almost wish they'd publish multiple versions to streaming services so that people with home theaters can pick the high dynamic range option and people with normal TVs and setups have something more even.", "I just figured he had some uplink he could access.", "A suit? It's a big, clear tank in the books.\n\nEdit: Holy shit okay okay I was wrong! Guildsmen ≠ Navigators, MY BAD", "lol I was there first day just to get the cherry popped - now to settle in to going to see it roughly once a week til they pry it from my cold dead hands.", "Yes?", "Saw it yesterday in the theater. It’s probably the most cared for book to film translation I’ve seen especially as a harder internal narrative driven plot than say LOTR", "Off to the axolotl tank with you, there's a sequel to be had!", "I mean, it's hard to fit in the back lore for Ix, space guild, how the ships travel, and the scale of the vessels considering they fit like 1/3 to 1/2 of the book into one movie already. They completely left out the navigators, emperor, and 100% of how brutal and a pedophile the Baron is. Heart plugs, mentats, none of it can fit into a film that has to keep moving. It's why I think the 80s film was so so so confusing, it assumed you already knew the lore. At most one sentence of Paul thinking something like \"a guild navigator, they fold space\" and just left you to assume you knew what he meant.", "In the lore of the Dune universe, there was a huge intergalactic war between humans and AI, humans won so AI/computers have been banned.", "That last bit was Duncan Idaho, not Gurney", "Absolutely. If you enjoy the world of Dune from the books, theater is the best immersion experience.", "I hayt that tank", "Oops!", "Also look for one scene in particular. When the Reverend Mother (gom jabbar lady) flies to Caladan, there is a shot of the Blue planet visible through the Spacing Guild ship. But the planet can't be seen in the background, only through the ship. Meaning the ship creates a portal in which fleets travel from planet to planet across the galaxy. In the books, the ships do have an engine that folds space that allows fast travel. It's a quick shot an easy to miss. I missed it on my first watch haha", "That was a great watch. Thanks OP!", "My guess is that it could've been removed in the final cut. I hope in part 2 we at least get to see the navigators.", "Yeah, it's a same-day release on HBOmax.", "Awesome.", "I saw it in IMAX today and it was such a treat. Uses the whole frame for so much of the movie. Once you got out into open desert scenes it felt like the whole movie was in full frame IMAX. There were a couple dialog scenes that punched back into letterbox and it almost felt claustrophobic. Overall great experience.", "I think they're just commenting on the choice of library as a counter to AI being too on the nose. \n\nThere's also the heavy focus on making everything look ancient, when it's so far in the future. Like the shield, things should have looked futuristic.", "I’m watching it on my phone, as God intended.", "I’ve had the same problem with that and was on headphones. Luckily subtitles helped.", "He’s also a student of Lynch’s movie; there’s a lot of (the best parts of) Lynch in there.", "I never had a problem hearing the dialogue, but I watched it with a set of Sony Headphones connected to my PS5 controller. I suspect some of it would have been very difficult to understand otherwise, especially Harkonnen, who had some very softly delivered lines.", "They had said it was part one quite some time ago, because they didn't want to make the mistake of rushing the storyline like the 1984 film did. There is so much detail and lore establish that a 3 hour long film couldn't capture. The jump in time for the second half of the book also makes a good argument for splitting the movie up. I hope that they include Paul and Chani having their first child Leto II, but it'd be hard to justify on screen the main character having a child near the end of a film and then losing it", "And my man Denis has never met a landing gear he didn’t love!", "Best movie I’ve seen in decades.", "It was the Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.\n\n\"I must not fear. \nFear is the mind-killer. \nFear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. \nI will face my fear. \nI will permit it to pass over me and through me. \nAnd when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. \nWhere the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.\"", "It wasn’t like that in the theatre.", "If you look up the director online it has “Dune Part 2” listed as a future film.", "When Paul asks‘what’s in the box’, I hear Brad Pitt lol", "IMAX if you can. The theatre shakes when characters use the Voice, it's epic.", "This was my first IMAX experience and it was utterly insane. The first encounter with the worm was sublime. Highly recommended you experience it this way", "It's definitely superior in theaters. I watched it in IMAX. Streaming later at home did not achieve the same thing. I heard an interview with Villanueve where he says he made the film as a love letter to cinema theaters.", "if you do a TV series, you're going to run into commitment issues with actors, which I'm not sure a lot of them necessarily want to lock themselves into. you'll be on set like 5-6 months each and every year until the series sees itself to its conclusion. whereas if you're filming a movie, it's once every 2 or so years for a few months at a time, it's much easier to stomach as an actor and frees them up to take other projects.\n\nit makes sense to do a tv series but then you'll never have the same level of star power as you'd get from a movie.", "Yes, and we’re all talking about and critiquing the movie adaptation. Instead of full tanks they’re more like helmets that act as tanks.", "It was not clear in any of their advertising that this was a \"part one.\" And they don't even have a part two greenlit lol.", "I was super pleased with the amount of \"this is exactly what I pictured reading the book\" I had with this film. It's not perfect, but I almost think you'd need a TV series with a movie dollar per minute budget to do better.", "Bruh don't just drop spoilers in like that 😂", "That's the navigator.\n\nThe guildsmen are lesser mutated and not as weird.\n\nThe navigators are barely human and are seldom seen.", "I really like Timothée Chalamet. I thought he was absolutely fantastic in The King, and I'm really excited to see where he goes with his career.", "Good to know.", "100% agree. It feels how it felt to read the book, just like LotR did.", "Still not released in Australia lol", "TIL how his name is pronounced", "The book came out in 1965.", "naw, you did good. part 2 is dependent on part 1 being a success", "So I've been butchering this guy's name (in true American fashion). Pretty sure I was somewhere around Dennis Villa-new-wave... Anyone replay the beginning of the video like 25 times to learn it or am I the only hillbilly in this thread rn?", "The fans knew, they've been very open about that if you've followed along with the production.", "My mind couldn't stop comparing this movie and the 80's version and what sticked out in this one is clearly the despair and the certainty of the loss that was about to happen... while maintaining and good fight choreography.", "On the point of the navigators, wasn't it originally a secret that they needed spice? The movie just throws it out as exposition that everybody knows.", "I think part of why they kept certain characters out of this movie (Feyd-Ratha, the emperor, Count Fenring and his wife, etc) was so they could cast stars in those roles if the second movie is greenlit and get the buzz going since the second movie will almost definitely be missing stars like Momoa and Isaac.", "It's so weird how he has become so big. I remember going to the premiere of Polytechnique back when he was mostly only known in Quebec, and how he just took the time to talk about his movie, about how and why he decided to make it. And while I knew he was talented, he has become so much bigger than I ever thought he would be.", "God, I've never seen Lynch's Dune, and have no desire to after that comparison. Voice over exposition dumps are such lazy film making.", "I'm so happy he made the movie.", "Oh wow, book readers knew? Color me surprised!\n\nBut you're free to believe people should \"follow production\" for every film that comes out rather than title something with a simple \"part one.\" Yknow like they do on screen once you're actually watching the film?", "Does he pronounce his name? Yep … still can’t pronounce it. 😔", "I love how each and every frame of the movie is so thoughtfully considered. I love Denis' work. :)", "He didn't do a great job... too many \"visions\" that just ripped you from the story.\n\nEdit : I will say I like how he showed what advanced weapons could actually do.\n\nEdit: down vote me all you want doesn't change fact visions we're handled better in the original.", "Cool scene. Movie is probably good too.\n\nNothing he said is that special though. Why so much hype? \n\nWhy can't people just enjoy things for what they are, without injecting it with some overblown significance or value?\n\nAny new movie, series, author, musician etc. needs to be either the best thing ever, or worthless. Nothing in-between.\n\nMaybe it's because what everybody really likes above all else is to be together. In a way that's heartwarming, I guess.", "From someone who loved his previous works but never read Dune, I had fun WATCHING the movie but left disappointed. The cinematography / visuals were one of the greatest ever but the story just went no where, even if it was a first part of two. \n\nThe pace seems awfully off to me , near the end especially, I don't mind slow burns but goddamn how many times do I have to watch the same dream sequence. \n\nThen there are things that just made no sense to me. If they are mentioned in books, he damn sure didn't bother to explain anything in the movie. \n\nFor example why Is there no advance AI / robots in so distant future? ( A question all my friends had but it's in the books from I read later) \n\nWhy the fuck no one uses gun or projectile based weapons? ( considering how effective hunter seekers and plain old darts seemed) \n\nThat Duncan scene.. Why would you even open the door from yourself.", ">his shield generator gets knocked out and they start chasing him with the laser\n\nSee, I'm glad you mentioned that. I didn't catch that Duncan's generator was knocked out of commission, so I was really confused (and mildly irate) when a Harkonnen lasgun started tracking his thopter.", "I saw the movie and I really liked it. \n\nWorld building was amazing. The sense of scale of some of the shots was crazy. Super visually impressive film. \n\nMy only negative of it was the story telling falls off about half way though. It's just kind of emotionless scene after scene because it's going through so much plot so quickly. I understood what was going on but it was so quick that I wasn't able to be engrossed. \n\nJust my 2 cents though", "By far the best casting I have ever seen. Ever character is exactly what I imagined they'd be like based on their book counterpart. Except Jessica, but apparently I'm alone in that opinion.", "I also am a huge Dune fan, and I found this scene great. \n\nBut, I feel like he missed something at the end that framed the Reverand Mother differently. In the book, after the gom jabbar she says out loud to Paul:\n\n\"Enough, no woman has withstood so much pain, I must have wanted you to fail\" \n\nIt was the first real hint at Paul's greatness, it showed the \"mother\" portion of reverend mother and her admission of weakness softened her overall. \n\nI will say the end result is the same Paul still hated her and DV probably had good reason communicating her character to the audience in this way.", "Small detail, really. Doesn’t impact the story at all. Would have been confusing for there to be a big deal made of it there. They have to balance it for fans of the book and new fans alike.\n\nYou’re the second I’ve seen complain about Jessica. I don’t know what you find wrong with her. I think, given the fact that it’s very difficult to convey any kind of internal monologue in a film (and Lynch’s did this clumsily) she’s still a great character. She’s capable, and powerful as shown by the thopter scene. Again, what more do you want?\n\nPeople who nitpick about these types of details would have had the movie be 4 hours long to include everything, and as such it would have been a guaranteed box office failure, killing any part 2.", "movie was epic. will read the book.", "The visions ARE the story, champ. \n\n\"He didn't do a great job.\" You're a moron.", "I did the d-box (moving chairs) highly recommend.", "I'm not a book reader and i knew", "Well I know what my second watch will be on.", "I actually was completely devastated by Bladerunner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep was so philosophically deep, the characters had depth and obvious flaws, so much cool sci-fi imagery was just left on the floor. Bladerunner felt like a Hollywood bastardization to me, but I've found that people who saw the movie first loved it.", "Doubly lucky he's a sci fi fan", "> tremendously better job all the way around.\n\nIt is better in a lot of ways but I think the Lynch film did a few things better. Maybe it's a matter of taste but I thought all the Harkonen stuff was too subdued in this new version. To the point that it's nearly all underwhelming. Unless it's Raban screaming in which case it needed to be toned down a few notches. I wasn't convinced by the fat suit either.\n\nThen there's the Gurney v. Paul knife fight at the beginning to introduce shields to the audience. It's the same scene, maybe even the same dialog and the delivery in the Villaneuve version is so weird. I can only assume they wanted to not do the exact same thing but that straightforward delivery was the right way to do it. This is stilted or the inflections are way off. Sure the shields look way better but Brolin is overworking all of his lines.", "I saw it on IMAX tonight. It was sooooo good.", "You must not be very familiar with Dune or just how integral to the story those “visions” are.", "I am really enjoying Foundation. It's not \"Apple's Game of Thrones\" which I heard bandied about, but it's still pretty good", "This is one of the best sci films in a long time. Highly recommend it. Can't wait for extended edition. You can tell this movie was squeezed into \"movie theater\" time.", "I’m actually a huge fan of the lady who is cast as Lady Jessica and think she did an excellent job so far. It’ll be interesting to see her as a reverend mother in the next movie(s?).", "Dune is literally all about time and visions and the mental evolution of the human species. \n\nThe visions practically are the story.\n\nI think you might have missed the point of Paul’s character arc entirely if you thought they were a distraction.", "Absolutely LOVE The King. Definitely an overlooked movie imo", "The comparisons to LotR are wildly inappropriate. LotR manages to engage an audience that doesn't have familiarity with the source material. Dune doesn't, at least not nearly as well.\n\nBut, if you know the book(s), then yes, get hyped. You'll almost certainly love the movie.", "How they were done was disjointed and just annoying at parts.", "That's interesting. I wonder if Villeneuve thought that Paul out-performing every woman that had done the test before him could be seen as a little bit of a chauvinist narrative device.\n\nHe might have also just thought it was an unnecessary and awkward thing for her to say in that moment, idk. There are plenty of other ways in which the movie shows his prowess, and I don’t think it’s necessary that he be better than all of the Bene Gesserit at that one specific thing. The Bene Gesserit are badasses, matching them is enough of an accomplishment for him at that early stage I’d think.", "Saw original movie, visions were handled way better in that.", "It’s painful to even think of someone watching this on a phone…", "To bad the rest of that movie is not good.", "Sorry! I don't know how to make spoiler tags", "This movie was so dull", "I dunno about Momoa, in theory he doesn’t come back until the next book but those flashbacks had an awful lot of Duncan in them, and Momoa is always a fan favorite. I’m wondering if Villenueva will combine the second half of Dune with Dune Messiah - I had read he wanted to incorporate that book to close the circle on Paul’s arc.", "The 2003 sci-fi channel mini-series was a pretty faithful adaptation. It's big downside was just the technology available and budget.", "My favorite scene for cinematography, ever, is the trebuchet scene. It is so beautifully shot. I go back and watch that scene alone because it's so amazing to look at.", "He is the Kwisatz-Haderaaaaand we just ran out of budget.", "Dude that futuristic phalanx formation was fucking amazing, such cool battle choreography", "The touchscreen must flow.", "Pfft.. you think I read? I’m not a peasant.", "The 80s movie and those shitty voiceover narrations did a disservice to the actors and actresses - it was like the director didn’t think the could act well enough to convey that information, so he just narrated it. I’m SO glad that’s not in these new movies - it was a stupid choice IMO for the older version and really threw you out of the scenes.", "My only problem with the visions were that like 90% of them were Chani. They were much more varied in the book, and Herbert made a much bigger deal about his emerging prescience and how scared Jessica was of and for him.\n\nThat said, the scene with Paul freaking out in the tent and having the vision of the future jihad was incredible.", "They were handed much better in the original.", "I started the first book a few weeks ago, trying to at least finish where the movie ended. Took me up until two days ago to get to where I thought it would end. Then I finished the rest of the book in a day it got so good", "TBF, that's from the book. it's mostly internal monologues. Dune has always been a hard thing to adapt to screen.", "Or a home theatre", "God, the visuals of ALL THOSE SHIPS!!! This is one story where whatever visionary artist did the story boarding, the visual effects team recreated in loving detail. Such grand vistas and ambience with all the sand and dust, I absolutely love how this film looked!!", "What’s so great about the source material anyway, I was super disappointed with the first foundation book.", "I had heard that his desire to incorporate Messiah was tied to the possibility of a three-part trilogy of films, but would be cool to see how Villenueva tackles the next film regardless of what aspects of the source material he brings in", "Congratulations. Not one trailer utters the words part one. How are people missing this? It's okay to mislead because you followed closer than the average person would?", "The problem with Dune is that so damn much of it is driven by internal monologues. In the book, Jessica is regularly freaking out internally but being cool as a cucumber on the outside. \n\nFor a movie with zero voice overs other than the introduction, you have to show her terror another way.", "My only complaint was how little they showed of the mentats. One little eye movement on Thufir was about all we had showing off what they actually do and why they're important, and not mentioning that Paul had the ability too... And Piter was basically \"generic henchman #5\".\n\nUnderstandable though, there's a lot going on and while I think mentats are cool, stopping to explain every detail of \"human computers\" would be a bit of a slog.", "Kinda agree with you. The visions are integral to the story, but there were plenty of times that putting yet another one in, how long they took...the pacing of the film dragged because of them at times.", "I’m not familiar with the books but I really enjoyed the film. Perhaps a few too many slow zoom close-ups of peoples faces.", "Lol projecting much?", "It was, as they say on Aarakis, beiuquib sar alwaqt - or, 'squeaky bum time'.", "I didn't catch that either, I saw the shield flash blue when his thopter got hit, I'm not sure what indicated that it stopped working.", "Sounded phenomenal on my Atmos setup. Center channel was clear and crisp.", "Don't sound so sure that your wife's opinion is, either.\n\nI did even specifically say \"not nearly as well\".\n\nPeople were mesmerized by the Transformers movie. I don't know your wife and so her opinion holds less than no weight on my perspective.\n\nOkay Reddit. \"My anecdote trumps yours! I win!\" Should've known better than to do anything besides ride Villeneuve's dick on this post. Honestly one of my favorite filmmakers of our time, but I was disappointed in how much of the movie was just amazing imagery on a shallow narrative frame. Couldn't care about the characters because we only saw maybe 3 minutes of most of them, so deaths just felt blase. Visions looked cool, but the information Paul actually got from them was incomprehensible. Too many things being setup with no explanation and nothing to pay off in this movie. But sure, this guy's wife enjoyed it, so none of that is real.", "> why Is there no advance AI / robots in so distant future?\n\nThe backstory is that there were AI that governed mankind at one point, but their rule was overthrown in a revolution called the Butlerian Jihad. The previous state of the universe and the conflict that occurred was so terrible that it left scars mentally, culturally, and spiritually for all generations that followed. \n\nCivil leaders outlawed thinking machines, religious leaders taught that \"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind\". This conflict lead to the investment into human capability, creating the Spacing guild, the Bene Gesserit sisterhood, and the order of Mentats; savants who act as human computers.\n\n> Why the fuck no one uses gun or projectile based weapons? ( considering how effective hunter killers and plain old darts seemed)\n\nDune is a bit unique in that personal defensive technology ended up outpacing personal offensive technology. They created shields that completely negated any attack or force that impacted above a certain speed, which meant that bullets and projectiles were useless, but would still allow slow things like your hands, or air, to pass through.\n\nThe laser technology used in the universe interacted explosively with the shields, and depending on the power of the shield and of the laser, could result in an explosive of similar strength to a nuclear weapon. As no one wanted to blow up a city block or worst just because you lasered someone wearing a shield, laser weapons are very carefully used. The darts are specialized and expensive, ill suited for mass production. It became far cheaper and efficient to reinvest in melee combat, where a slow blade could slip past shields and kill your opponent. And yes, out of the story, this is an excuse to have swords and knives in a scifi setting.", "She did seem to soften to him after he passed the test; I quite liked how the actress conveyed that with just her actions (acting FTW!) even with that veil across her face. I’m sure Paul still hated her though with good reason (the pain must’ve been excruciating and she rudely commanded him across the room earlier using the Voice).", "I mean, it's better than some ridiculous terrorist attack and Chernobyl style court scene, a la the first episode.", "Oh man I hope they do that kinda like LOTR did! There’s SO much that must’ve been cut on the editing room, I’d love to see more!!", "I haven’t seen the show because I have no desire to after reading the book.\n\nI guess you could take something inspired by the book and make something different and actually good, but apparently that didn’t happen.", "Dude the original book is 75% visions, prescience, Bene Gesserit prophecy, and fuck me sideways if every other sentence doesn't reference someone's awareness. It's great, no doubt about it, but you can't spend most of a film in a dream.", "The music in that scene and the whole movie is so good. It's nothing spectacular thats going to blow your mind but it just fits the movie so well", "The scene just after Paul tells her he knows she's pregnant - and that walk down the hall to Leto, barely holding it together - that was absolutely magical stuff.", "Also die hard fan of the book(s). I wasn't too fond of the adaptation. There are tons of positives but I felt like the movie was dragged down by it's obsession with good visuals and cultivating a feeling of \"epicness\". The movie didn't feel grounded at any point. The herald scene at the start of the film is 4 mins, just for the herald to say like 10 words. I know this probably seems like a massive nitpick but it set the tone of the entire movie for me, a plot point that could have been a part of an intimate conversation between the Leto and Paul gets turned into an extravagant 4 minute scene in which we learn almost nothing of importance.\n\nThis type of scene was littered throughout the film, moments that get dragged on way too long with epic music and visuals. I can appreciate visuals and setting a tone, but it needs to accomplish something. When Paul gets off the thopter when they are landing by the spice harvester, he steps on to the sand and we get a beautiful close-up of his feet on the sand and it felt like this awesome moment where Paul is taking his first steps on the true Arrakis. And then it just drags on and on. He bends down and picks up some sand, he looks around into the dust and at the crawler, all while epic music is playing in the background. I kept internally exclaiming, \"WE GET IT, MOVE ON\". The entire tension of the scene was just ruined for me. So much time was spent on that scene and there's no dialogue, we barely learn anything about Kynes or Leto, all we get out of the scene is a teaser for a plot point that's expanded on later.\n\nAnyways, I 100% admit that I'm a bias book fan and that I'm pretty much impossible to satisfy. I just really wish the movie had focused more on the characters and their plights instead of overindulging on beautiful music + visuals.", "Tons. And Jason Momoa has gone on record saying there might be 4 hours worth of content.", "I regret watching this movie on my ipad :(", "I would really encourage people to read the book before the movie. There are so many little things that you miss cause villeneuve followed the book so closely. Also I feel there are so many things that would be confusing if you didn’t.", "Hmmmm. \n\n1. Where is Feyd-Rautha?\n2. What happened to Gurney?\n3. What happened to Thufir?\n\nOnly criticisms I can think of that are future reaching. Meanwhile, I have criticisms of the movie that are here and now that will not be answered. \n\nLike pretty much everyone's character development. Yueh definitely didn't have enough before being revealed as a traitor. The suspicion of a traitor was never addressed. For being longer than Lynch's movie and covering only about the first half, I'm incredibly surprised with the details left out.", "I highly recommend seeing it in IMAX. It’s incredible.", "It's just weird they attacked with foot soldiers with swords BEFORE the hundred missiles.", "Haha I don't know if I was hyped but I had spent so much time fretting over this film coming out that it did put a ding in my first viewing... but then again, I'm going to go see this thing about five times like I did with Fury Road, so the first one was just to get it over with.", "I saw the movie at home and the only thing I noticed was the effects looked a bit sci fi channel to me. Not the explosions but more the shots of the space ships. Not a complaint because maybe it was intentional or my eye sight is getting worse. \n\nMy only option was at home. Anyways saw Shang Chi in IMAX and wasn’t impressed honestly but loved the movie. Is imax really a big difference?? \nBesides that I wish it could have covered the rest of the first book. Hope they decide to finish it.", "Some lack the spice.", "Who hurt you?", "Religious zealots outlawed \"thinking machines.\" So in their place are deformed babies who are high off their faces on drugs. The drugs help them calculate.\n\nThe shields make projectiles useless. They even explain in the movie that the slow blade breaks through the shields.\n\nAnd Duncan needs to be an awesome martyr so that's why.", "Who were the other helmeted people in that scene, the ones that looked a bit Daft Punk? CHOAM representatives?", "That's a good point, my problem is definitely that she's constantly freaking out externally in the movie which is basically the opposite of the Bene Gesserit way. At a bare minimum, when she recites the litany against fear she should at least sound like she believes it...", "It's doing well at the box office and the WarnerMedia CEO the other day basically said it is happening. I wouldn't worry.", "They made the right call to keep the story moving in each scene instead of linger and bore the non nerds to death. If you want to get into it you read the book, like any movie adaptation. It's so deep with like 5k years of story to go through..I'd rather see the shield knife fights and psychic stuff more than talk about why machines are banned and people have segregated into castes and feudalism.", "I get where you’re coming from. Dune is a very character dense book, but despite this I think it is very emotionally cold. I do agree that some of the visuals dragged, but I think having those scenes just be there to look pretty made it more accessible to general crowds rather than having pretty much every scene be an intense, important, dense dialogue scene, which is basically how the book is. It’s a balance.", "See it IMAX if possible, i thought it was fantastic", "It's the only possible answer, otherwise they were risking destroying that hemisphere of the planet, never mind the city, and the ship firing it had to be a couple of light seconds out, if it was anywhere inside the atmosphere it would have been able to target the thopter perfectly.", "I agree she did , and I'm just watching the movie, not a world class director, so ill defer.", "Doesn't mean people have read it", "I'm kinda skeptical that that is the truth, they sunk this much into half a movie?", "Her entire dialogue was pretty muted/mumbled. My movie partner (watch’s din a theater) kept nudging me to ask what she said. “Benico del toro??” “No… bene gessirit… wizard nuns”", "It was a shit ending for sure", "Duh-Nee Veel-nuv\n\nThe 'nuv' part is kinda hard because I can't find a matching phonetic in English but I guess that's close enough in a pinch.", "Not the first time a part 1 was made and part 2 never happened", "Same we went and saw it in a Dolby theatre and it was incredible. I’m glad I took the extra time to go to a really good theatee", "Comment below proves otherwise. I watched lynch's dune first and it was the only reason I was able to follow the new one.", "Lynch's eye twitch increases somewhere", "This scene is especially better compared to the original and I love how Denis explains it: Gaius Helen Mohaim thinks she’s going to break Paul, but not only is he capable of controlling his instincts, something else takes over. \n\nAlways loved this bit in Lynch’s Dune but instead of him reaching a limit that no woman ever had, this version of Paul breaks the reverend mother’s will.", "Yeah I think of Bladerunner as \"loosely based\" on the book. It hardly goes into the philosophy. My respect for the movie goes to the visual realization of the steamy, grimy, multicultural dystopia. It's the epitome of show-don't-tell. \n\nI hate when dialog is wasted on exposition, when its content is something characters wouldn't say aloud. It takes a very delicate touch to explain something to the audience. This movie did that in a couple places (sand walk via educational films, talking about slow blades penetrating shields). It omitted it in others when it would be too cumbersome. We never get an explanation of why you don't use lasers against shields, presumably everyone in this universe knows that. The 80s Dune was terrible about this because it tried to do this via whispered internal monologue, which was super cheesy. I think there's a limit to the depths of DADOES that you can plumb without slipping into that territory.", "I'm not sure if it was on purpose but it really reminded me of the bombing of Baghdad, in a horrifying way.", "wait, what?", "Can confirm. Saw it in IMAX. Was one of the best cinematic experiences I've had.", "Hey when you put a large phone a few inches from your face you get a pretty huge screen. And since high end phones can properly show HDR unlike most TV’s, the picture quality is likely to be better too. Only downside is that with the exception of a few Sony phones, you won’t get to watch it in native 4K. \n\nSo long as they have headphones too, they’re golden.", "I thought Fenring doesn't appear until Feyd's fight with the captured Atrates soldier, which happens after Paul has hooked up with the Fremen...I think, anyway?", "He says there will be no director cut, the theatrical version is exactly what he wanted to create.", "There's been several articles about how this one needs to do well so that the second part will get made and how the director was at odds with the studio since they planned and have released it sameday on streaming.", "God that's so bad it's good.", "I think Lynch's dune was a hot mess. Agree to disagree.", "If you haven’t read the books then why does it matter to you if this was part one", "Just got back from watching this on the IMAX and 11/10 would watch again!!", "Headphones? You Philistine! I am watching it on my phone, in my backyard, with neighbors blowing leaves and mowing lawns, a kid screaming next door, and dogs barking in the distance. AS. GOD. INTENDED.", "According to book readers, the show is very much not like the books. Still, I've never read the books and the show has plenty of problems imo. It's visually stunning but lacking in it's writing.", "As. God. Intended.", "Does anyone think the cleanup guys in hazmat suits after the tooth scene are an homage to the Lynch version of the Sardaukar? The whole \"viewport in a hood\" thing?", "The book lacks in writing.", "As. God. Intended.", "Oh yeah for sure this is what happens when an absolutely top notch director gets to make the movie he wants of a book he clearly loved.", "Although they never mention in the movie about shields and lasguns being a dangerous combination. \n\nI wish they had included the scene from the book where Duncan kills a butt-ton of Harkonnens with a lasgun shield trap.", " Given how Bautista had little screen time, what would have been the harm in having Feyd in scenes too even though they weren't sure they'd get a second movie you'd just wonder (as a non book reader) what's the evil Paul's point though the whole film. Same with the Emperor, his presence is felt (like Sauron) but they didn't cast an actor for him or his daughter because they'd only have 1 percent screen time for half of a film that may not get continued. (but it's looking like it will.)", "Seen this movie 3 times now on HBO Max and once in IMAX, man I really hope this movie gets a part 2. Absolutely amazing film, I think it cements Villaneuve as my favorite director.", "There's no dialogue because the whole point of that scene is showing Paul's first dose of spice triggering a vision so vivid he gets lost in it - despite everything going on around him. In a following scene he remarks to Jessica how he had the vision with his \"eyes open\" - all his other visions were when he was asleep.", "I didn't really understand the last barage tbh. Like 'hurray, the city is under our complete control. now let's obliterate it!'\n\nedit: also aren't they trying to hide the attack from the rest of the galaxy? Gonna have to make sure nobody comes to visit before they're able to rebuild everything", "Oh man if there is a full cut I would be excited. I was disappointed with how much the sped through/glossed over (I understand why they had to)", "Pattinson would be a great Feyd\nRautha and he has a good relationship with Warner Bros...", "I kinda agree. Everything feels like one big set piece after another, with the cumulative effect of it being unreal and austere.", "Villeneuve had no interest in making Harkonnen a gay pedophile. He stated that pretty directly.", "I actually liked the first episode or two then they got rid of the two characters I actually cared about and it seemed like a generic scifi channel show", "Oooo I never thought of that. That is very intriguing", "I never said anything about appeal, I said engagement. Lord of the Rings explains just about everything you see in the movie, and at the end, you're only left to wonder how the story will progress. Dune explains very little, and at the end you're left with things that you have to wonder if they'll ever be explained in the sequel, or you just have to read the book to understand. So unless you can just turn your brain almost entirely off and soak up the visuals and music, there isn't as much to engage with. The movie is just throwing scenes at you.\n\nFor one concrete example, Paul hears \"kwisatz hederach\" multiple times, but without any knowledge of the book, I have no fucking clue what that is supposed to be, whereas it explains the whole \"Lisan al Gaib\" thing very well. I assume they're the same thing? Maybe I just missed a single, quick line of dialogue? It also explains some things in completely throwaway lines, like Josh Brolin says something like \"the slow blade gets through the shield\" and I thought that was just some kind of fantasy metaphor, but that was the movie's entire explanation of how their shields work.\n\nVersus LotR. It spends entire scenes explaining what the ring is, what the ringwraiths are, who Aragorn truly is besides Strider, so on. So much less of it is just a nebulous \"figure it out as you go\" sort of affair. The least clear thing in that movie is probably just whether or not the Hobbit pipe tobacco is just tobacco or weed.", "People who love books rarely enjoy the film. It's a different medium, it's not possible to capture everything you enjoyed about the book or every little detail you thought was cool.", "I remember it being good but having laughably bad sets. Like the backgrounds very noticeably being painted walls just a couple of feet behind the actors.", "I really don't like Chalamet, so I'm biased going in, but you nailed it. The delivery of that line is terrible. Why does he constantly sound petulant in every movie? :(\n\n(I know you're making a reference to Seven, this part just really stuck out for me too)", ">close enough\n\nclose ee-nu-f\n\ntake the 'nu' and add a v instead of f: nuv", "Deckard was clumsy and unsure of himself in DADOES, the whole tone of the book was Hollywoodified by turning him into a cocky action hero. The animals that lived and were displayed on roofs as a status symbol (real animals being increasingly rare) was a big driver for his motivations in DADOES, and it's such a great dystopian image - it's these details that were completely removed. Mercerism, the religion that everyone collectively experiences and tunes into through empathy boxes is completely gone as well. The entire final sequence where he excitedly finds the toad in the desert he assumes is real - him failing at the one thing he is meant to be good at as his wife explains it is electronic. It's such a great ending. \n\nI am very excited to see this Dune film based on the positive reviews I've been seeing in this thread, seems like how I wished Bladerunner was with regards to respecting the source material.", "Here's hoping we get extended editions like the LotR movies.", "The scene with Jessica was one of my favorites when I recently read the book! But it does make sense to leave it out like you said. It adds a whole other plot line which I'm sure will come up in the second movie anyways.", "I think the film does a decent job of showing that most of these situations are exceptional, like, it's the culmination of her life and plans, and she actually risks everything and goes way out of line to enact her ambition. I think it's implied, although not much emphasized, that she's ice-cool and dangerous as a howitzer in most normal situations (like the everyday running of the political life / hiring the housekeeper / dealing with Stilgar scenes).\n\nThat's why I like the casting: Ferguson feels like a deceptively quiet and subdued \"nun\" — the one that other, more power-hungry sisters probably see as a boring mouse who got lucky, I'm imagining — who's actually the snake in the grass in her organization.", "Everything about Dune was amazing, a perfectly immersive experience, until Aquaman suddenly popped up. Jason Momoa felt like an out of tune electric guitar in a classical music orchestra.\n\nI haven’t read the books though. Maybe he was the perfect cast?", "Maybe you just need everything spelled out for you to enjoy anything?", "Well shit. I guess I'm watching this movie.", "better to sink 1x into a movie that bombs, than it is to sink 2x into a movie that bombs. Also, how many people are going to refrain from watching it because it doesn't cover the whole book? The fans are going to watch it regardless. The average moviegoer isn't going to realize this until after they paid a ticket. There isn't really much downside from them leaving it unfinished.", "Oh man, that would have been great. I can already guess what two of the main sources of complaint will be: That those super-effective lasers aren't used more (because lasgun + shield = thermonuclear-level explosion), and how old-fashioned a lot of the tech looks (because even trying to build a computer is grounds for on-the-spot summary execution, since this world has already experienced a robot apocalypse).", "I only saw \"breaks down\" and thought the worst", "Not at all, but there needs to be at least something in the movie leaving enough hints. LotR is very clear, Dune was much more murky; the comparison is awful. They aren't similar in the slightest. The only thing cut wholesale from LotR was Tom Bombadill, whereas Dune makes passing mention to the great houses or whatever that I'm sure are much more explained in the books. We're expected to just believe that many of them would rally together against the emperor after Leto's death, like they're just faceless pawns with no desires and motivations of their own. My point is that Dune does not explain the book's concepts and setting nearly as well as LotR explains its own.\n\nConsidering some of my favorite movies are Jacob's Ladder, Videodrome, Suspiria, and recently greatly enjoyed The Void, and The Empty Man, just to name a few examples, I don't think it's that I need things perfectly spelled out at all. This really isn't a \"me\" issue, it's a pretty common line of thinking from many who didn't know the books before watching.", "I agree. Getting through this movie is was like eating a bucket of wallpaper paste..", "Completely agree. The only thing I’ve seen as close was some of the old Omni magazine illustrations from maybe the late 70s or early 1980s. (I’m old.). When we were walking out of the theater yesterday, I turned to my wife and said, almost giddily, “I didn’t realize that I’d been waiting nearly forty years to see a thopter.”", "If it makes you feel better, there were navigators shown in the film (with some sort of spice helmet situation in lieu of fish-people). Hopefully implying that there will be more direct explanations about things like Mentats, the Guild, and maybe even the Bene Tleilax in part 2. \n\n>! Now that Paul is with the Fremen at the end of part 1 they can use that to have scenes where he explains things to the Fremen about the Imperium. Hopefully, that helps them do more.<!", "I don't believe that if he's really such a big fan of the books. He left out one pretty important plot thread and a bunch of small stuff, and also probably the most peoples' favorite scene of the book.", "Which is I think a big oversight, since without that context, there's no answer for why the lasers are so rare.\n\nAlso the fact that there's no computers is not brought up at all, further muddying the is-this-scifi-or-not feel.", "Re: for example the \"herald\" scene: how do you communicate the concept of an incredibly old, ritual-bound, alien, and unforgiving interstellar empire, constantly tugged every which way by multiple pompous organisations, each of which thinks that THEY are the power base of said empire? \n\nMovies cannot allow themselves long expositional conversations or author expounding on the lore. (Villeneuve already risked a few expo-dumps, where it was critical). Instead of that, all of these concepts are communicated through visuals and editing. It's not just dumbed down for \"general crowds\", it's the language of the medium.\n\nThe mind-boggling excess of the manner in which the message is delivered; the pointedly different costumes and even physical forms that different \"cliques\" have; the intoxicating, Riefenstahl-like forbidden appeal of the Nazi-like Atreides troop squares; the cunning, but brazenly unconcealed mind-meddling by the Bene Gesserit (without a single word); and most importantly, the feeling of doom for the duke. It's not just a formality — it's a fate sealed, for all his high lord fanfare, he's putting his neck under the axe. \n\nI remember that the scene cuts out directly after the smiling, relaxed herald says \"it is done\", like a doctor after a procedure, in reply to the anxious duke — it's like it's a moment that Leto remembered the most (the rest is inconsequential), and then I think it cuts to the cemetery-brooding, reflecting on what he's putting at stake (the whole legacy of the planet).", "I have not seen the movie yet obviously, but I know a bit of whereabout in the book it's supposed to be. Guessing we'll see Thufir again inn the next one, and Gurney as well. \n\nAs for Feyd...I can't remember where he comes in novel wise. He was actually not really present in a lot of it until his big fight at the end. I think there was a bit with Count Fenrig? And his attempt at Vlad of course,", "It's literally just vill-nuh-ve.", "He got a lot of the visuals down but the dialogue is barebones in comparison, beyond one or two scenes. Not unexpectedly given it's a book to movie adaptation, but I was still disappointed. A lot of the characters and political intrigue were stripped out in favor of action and more passive imagery.", "I just saw it and for the most part liked it.\n\n However one of the criticisms I had of it was I feel like the color palate of the film was just so muted that half the non arrakis planets looked the same, like yah caladan had water but but was just so grey I could have swapped it out for Saluda seconds(autocorrext is damming me here sorry) and Heidi prime.\n\nYou comment just reminded me that whenever it shows the effects of the attack in the daylight with kynes and Duncan I can't even tell what is and is not destroyed because is just a light beige blur of shapes", "I've heard some impressions (including literally overheard in the street or in restaurants), and people who never read the book discussed it intensely with people who did. The newcomers I heard about/from, tend to say it was quite good at being readable. Hell, I myself never finished the book past the betrayal, and it was 20 years ago. (I read the God Emperor later though). I was blown away.", "This is what irked me about the movie - long and pretty shots of sand, but characters get shafted:\n\nYueh might as well have not even had a name for all the details they did (not) put in.\n\nThufir did nothing of consequence. The fearsome master of assassins who is regarded by Harkonnens as the biggest obstacle is a now failure crybaby whose only action on screen is to tender a resignation.\n\nGurney is similarily pointless, not even any songs (yes he is more relevant after the part of the story the movie showed, but since they ignored the beginning of that plot point, it doesn't seem he'll have a role to play even later).\n\nKynes hardly did anything either and his (her) bond with the Fremen was really understated.\n\nJessica is apparently nearing a nervous breakdown now instead of being a master of inner control.", "Did they ever explain in the movie about why the don't use lasguns or why they fight mostly with hand to hand combat? I know they do in the books but I don't recall it in the movie.\n\nIt's something I enjoyed about Dune. They have advanced so far but have to use premative weapons in combat.", "The plot itself is easy to follow, more or less. It's things like, if you missed or didn't realize that Josh Brolin's line about the shield in the training scene was literal, you'll have no idea why some things seem to work against shields and others don't, and why the combat looks the way it does. You hear about the Great Houses but get literally no concept of their scale and power, their motivations and alignment, and why they would rally around the death of Leto to face off against the emperor. Things like that that I assume are either much more clear, or at least a little more developed, in the books, are just completely lost if you don't have that familiarity already.", "He's easily my favorite director of the last decade.", "It has to do with the shielding technology. IIRC, if you hit a shield with a lasgun, something like nuclear fusion can occur at any point between the shield generator and lasgun. In essence, it's mutually assured destruction. This was a clever narrative technique Herbert used to cap off technology and regress society to a feudal state, replete with sword fights and everything.", "Meh, star power compeltely unnecessary. TV shows nowadays are generally more engaging than movies, especially movies with stars. Gone are the days of Robert De Niro or Meryl Streep.", "That was the point. The use of the saudakur was incredibly dangerous, politically. If the rest of the great houses knew that the emperor had assisted the Harkonens there would be a huge outcry, possibly even civil war. They had to effectively eliminate every witness, hence leveling the city.\n\nIt's not like they gave a shit about the people or the planet as anything but a source of spice, and they could afford to rebuild whatever infrastructure they needed.", "I thought the part to hide was the sardaukar's, and by extension the emperor's, participation.", "I'm still holding out for Buckaroo Banzai II.", "If the result of that has to be a compromise in what makes Dune Dune - the layered plot, intrigue and varied character POVs - than I say forget star power and cinemas. I don't need to listen to Zimmer and see sand in IMAX. I'm here for the worldbuilding and plot.", "It can't come up because it's too late for it. Yknow, being that Leto was a major component of the situation. If they bring it up post ex it'll feel hamfisted and out of nowhere...", "It was mixed mostly well at my theater. She was very clear. \n\nThe only thing I had a hard time with was Paul's words when he was having a vision in the tent. I could hear most of it, but a few times I couldn't make out a few words.", "Yeah. It's like a well-executed community college play. It may be a great performance of Phantom of the Opera, but you didn't have the right set pieces to make it pop.", "I believe it’s pronounced “Denny Vill-eh-noov” but I could be super wrong. That’s just what I’ve heard", ">followed the book so closely\n\nAnd yet left out so much, that's the problem. I liked what I saw, I disliked all the stuff I didn't see.", "Dune Veelnuv!", "It ends abruptly as if there is a part 2. But there has been no movie deal for a 2nd one, so if it never happens, it's going to be one of those irritating movie endings that'll never be resolved.", "Just level it from orbit then? Sardaukar not required.", "> We're expected to just believe that many of them would rally together against the emperor after Leto's death, like they're just faceless pawns with no desires and motivations of their own.\n\nJust to latch on this one, WHY? What you describe and the movie describes is a number of powerful aristocrat clans in balance with a figurehead autocrat (a well-known configuration from history).The movie never said they'll \"rally\" against the emperor. It plainly spells out (twice) that if the emperor's plan is exposed, a huge internecine war may break out, with everyone's hands untied. Another dialog plainly says that the Emps has a power base in the sardaukar guard — who normally can take on any single contender and so keep the balance. Because of that, the movie's characters all make a big deal of their use to secretly cripple one house — it's a clear breakdown of the balance.\n\nIt also spells out (Harkonnen explains this in two scenes) that Atreides is one such clan, with real or perceived aspirations to domination, which the Emperor wants to nip in the bud by \"dividing and conquering\", crippling them using other houses, with rich spoils as a reward. Again a super routine situation in history. Note that Paul hints that he might very well contend for the throne (if the reigning dynasty turns out to be unfit for the job) — it's apparently a thought long entertained by Atreides and discussed in the family, I don't think he pulled it out of thin air.\n\nThen the imperial ecologist says that she'll still try to break the word out to what sounds like the \"parliament\" of houses (Landsraat or something), so that the plan is laid bare and houses can plan and negotiate their new power structure while avoiding going every man for himself. If anything, they seem to hope that the houses will grudgingly refrain from causing chaos, if only to balance out the Harkonnens (spice) + Emperor (sardaukars) power combo. \n\nAlso I think it's inferred by the tone with which they talk about other houses, Atreides, and Harks, that the other houses are smaller and less hefty than the big two — so losing one (Atreides) is bad news for them, since there's no one to balance the other, and smaller houses may get eaten piecemeal.", "Really? I feel the opposite way. Seems like he left every single cut in😂 it was great", "Nah all those things I expect will be fleshed out in Dune 2: Spicey Boogaloo.\n\nMy main complaints were: \n\n1. Mentats in particular, Thufir specifically, Yueh indirectly: Mentats are a society/guild just like the Navigators and the Bene Gesserit, raised specifically to be human computers. I don't think the term Mentat appeared in the new movie, so the connection between Thufir and Piter isn't clear. Because of this, and due to Thufir's costume, it made him seem more like an army general rather than a Mentat. Yeuh being a Suk doctor, less important, but also belongs to a guild/society, and his betrayal of his Suk doctor neutrality was one of the signs of a crumbling empire.\n\n2. Gom Jabbar, and the litany against fear: I felt this scene lacked the gravitas it should have. Even with the OP, I can see the reasons why the choices were made, but I felt like it lacked gravitas. I see that he was trying to use no visual effects to convey the scene, but obviously they also felt it was lacking as they added the flashforwards. I feel like it would have made a better scene with more in situ vfx. Having an arbitrary burnt hand with the backdrop of the desert felt really, really weak. I would have loved to have seen a shot where the box is transparent, and you can see the hand inside burning and possibly the whole room burning, but then return to the bleak dark room with nothing much going on, that is, Paul's vision of the burning Jihad that will sweep the universe were more present than the burning of his hand. \nI liked how Jessica said the litany against fear instead of Paul (who was just mouthing it, kinda), but fear is the little death that brings *total* obliteration. How could Jessica just forget a word like that?\n\n3. Ending a film, riding the wave: I really, really, liked how they set up Liet with the thumper and the hooks, but never explained what they were for, and before she was able to use the hooks she was stopped and forced to only use the thumper. I was so excited to see that and even more excited when it never happened. Fremen riding a sandworm is such an important and iconic shot, it was beautiful how they teased it without giving it away to newcomers, and then to just completely deflate that with some arbitrary shot of someone in the distance? Felt like a massive waste. The only thing that saved it was the trainwreck of a shot directly after it that roughly the equivalent of Zendaya turning to the camera and saying \"Please fund the sequel.\"\n\nLike, I get that they weren't (or aren't) greenlit for Dune II: Battle for Arrakis, but I didn't like that the last 30 second were basically just a \"look at this cool shit you'll miss out on without a second episode\". It didn't feel organic at all, and really took me out of the story.\n\nOverall, I thought the movie was fantastic, but those three things really bothered me. The first I'm hoping will be rectified in D2, the second is more of a stylistic argument, and the third really feels like a studio decision that will hopefully be edited out of future releases.\n\nAs a bonus, gripe, mild as they come, I think they should have added a scene where Gurney was playing the baliset. The whole point of his character is that he's the most uptight battle ready traditionalist puritan, but he has the heart of a poet. IIRC, and it's been a while, but Duncan describes him as someone who would slaughter your whole unit while singing a tune and not miss a single note or strike. I felt they translated the serious aspects of Gurney, but not really the poetic aspects, which just kind of drained all the nuance from his character. We'll see what happens in D2 I guess.\n\nAlso, now that I'm thinking more about it, I would have liked for them to explain just how important spice is. They kind of off-hand mention that it's important for the Navigator guild, and maybe even that it extends life? But they didn't mention that it's the fundamental substance that allows the Bene Gesserit to function, or the unmentioned Mentats to function, or that basically everything in the Dune universe runs on spice in one way or the other. But that's more of an afterthought, i wasn't really thinking that as I was watching.", "You should watch it. The long cut. \n\nHas an odd zolo creepiness that makes a lasting impression. I definitely prefer it over the new film - which I thought was pretty good.", "Have you read Dune?", "That transition when Paul is under the influence of the voice was brilliant. I’m sure it will be borrowed by others. I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that from the first person POV. It was much more effective than just having the standard dolly zoom fixed on the reaction shot that seems to be used for a similar transitions.", "Ahhhh yes you are right, I remember now lol", "I rewatched the 2000 version of Dune to tide me over a few weeks ago and quite liked the visualisation of the Navigators in that.\nJust after being told that no human had ever seen one, then they show you, it felt like a privilege.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/x9Mzn5J.jpg", "What would look futuristic to you? And keep in mind that it's been 8,000 years (a little bit less time than humanity has grown food, for comparison). Looking \"futuristic\" on that time scale is about as useful as asking one of the first human farmers what 2021 would look like.\n\nAnd more than that, I think things looking old is kind of a boast. Lightweight construction is used to save money on space travel today. But if, for example, some dude races past you in a ship where the interior is made of STONE, you know that guy is loaded to the gills.", "I'm pretty sure the ship with all the rockets was destroying a fremen village somewhere else. I think someone comes across it later on or in one of Paul's visions. They also mention coordinated attacks across the whole planet.", "I feel like I've been cheated. Only one of those is forward reaching, and it's involved with my third guess. The others are criticisms of the movie as it is, which are valid. \n\nIt really is a good movie. Especially in production quality. Everything is just so fucking awesome.\n\nBut it still bugs me that there are all these little things that are just omitted. Like in the Lynch movie, I don't think it's mentioned that mentats have their lips stained because of spice. But they show it when Piter and Thufir drink their spice concoctions to help them think.\n\nAnd they even show a navigator in the movie submerged in a vat of spice.\n\nThe Lynch movie is a lot crammed into a short time. And the production value isn't great (decent for 1984). But damn if it doesn't really stay true to the book at the expense of making a good film.", "Just saw it, it's very good. A little slow in parts, but those parts are important for the story. The only disappointment is that it's only Part One and the other parts coming out are dependant on how well this one does.", "> That's a good point, my problem is definitely that she's constantly freaking out externally in the movie which is basically the opposite of the Bene Gesserit way. At a bare minimum, when she recites the litany against fear she should at least sound like she believes it...\n\nI get what you mean. I had the same explanation to my wife about why it felt off.\n\nThat being said:\n* In the book there are lot of scenes that were cut from the movie where she is being a cold calculated person.\n* In the movie, we get a much larger ratio of scenes where she is panicking and out of control because of the scenes that were cut.\n* Additionally its difficult to show a character freaking out internally, but looking calm and composed externally in a movie.", "They still want infrastructure. bombing most the city, still can rebuild much. Using a strategic weapon is incredible wasteful.", "Well, the point of my comment was probably to say that you're putting these thoughts and words in everyone else's mouths. I've literally heard people discussing the particulars after the film, who never read the book. This is an adult film, that draws the general outline hoping that you kind of familiar with what, say, aristocratic clans are. \n\nAs an example, in early scene the big Harkonnen just says, like, \"Atreides have grown very powerful. And well, let's just say the Emperor is a very suspicious man; dangerous and suspicious\".\n\nHe doesn't say \"see, Rabban, the Emperor rules the Imperium, but great houses also have a lot of influence and much sovereignty in our world. And this one house is very large, and it's larger or more successful than other houses, which wasn't the case long ago. It's possibly even capable of taking on the financially richest house, the industrial captains Harkonnens who control the spice. And our Emperor, as a balancing figurehead in this federation of clans, fears being overthrown / legally displaced if a single house grows enough legitimacy in the eyes of other houses so as to not cause a civil war over this. So the Emperor decided to act on this, and nip the too-ambitious house in the bud, but with a smart powerplay, and remaining outwardly completely neutral. In fact, granting Atreides a huge boon, to then say they just didn't cut it (BTW, Leto and Gurney literally discuss just that two times in the movie). That's why he suddenly gave the Dune to them and taken it from us, without explaining anything overtly.\"\n\nI guess this is what you mean by explaining things? Another example would be Gurney's phrase \"slow blade pierces the shield\". Together with visuals where they literally show you a color-coded tutorial on how shields work, plus a scene where a dart slowly \"burrows\" through a shield (from blue to red), and scenes where stuff is thrown at shielded people and they just stagger (blue), and the scene where bombs slow down and stop to softly pass through the shields, and so on and so forth, I would say it's enough explaining. But yes, it's not spelled out.\n\nAs for \"rallying around Leto\", I said it in another comment - they never said this. There are no \"faces/heels\" there, it's politics, they speak quite clearly that Leto's death will satisfy the houses if it's legitimate, and scandalize them if it's set up, setting a precedent of using imperial guard to topple houses. Which would just cause a huge war, irregardless of Paul.", "nuhv works well. With “nuv” some might still make the u an oo sound.", "\"Denny Villa-noove\" with a french accent.", "At this point in the book, Jessica is a bubbling mess for a bit, as I recall. I explicitly remember Paul needing to assist her through the escape all the way to helping her with her stillsuit.\n\nBut everything else, I agree with. \n\nThere's plenty that could have been cut that could be turned to character development. For how fast Lynch's movie was to try and jam everything in, it's amazing to me how fast Denis' movie feels. It feels like the Atreides weren't even on the planet for a day before being killed.", "That Kynes lady gets all excited by the end and says she's going to warn the rest of them after witnessing the betrayal of the Harkonnen and the emperor. So, yes, it is safe to assume that they'll care enough to start a war. If the remaining houses are smaller and weaker, why would this news make them band together and fight back? If anything, it would just make them more inclined to be subservient.\n\nThey may have been caught by surprise, sure, but the Atreides house was wiped in a matter of moments - if the Harkonnen could bring weapons and tech that destructive, why couldn't Atreides have brought their own? And knowing that their destruction was so simple, it doesn't inspire a ton of confidence to me, as a viewer, that the rest of the houses are going to be that much help - especially because we have no concept of how many there are. For all I know, as someone who only watched the movie, there are only 4 great houses, now 3, which means only 2 to turn against the emperor. There's no sense of scale.\n\nI mean, you're acting like you're countering me here, but you're even further proving my point. Why would anyone want the last survivor of a dead house to be emperor if they aren't going to rally for him?\n\nContrast this with the Fremen. The movie does make it clear that the Harkonnen dismissed the Fremen as a threat, thinking there were only maybe 50,000 of them, but when it's confirmed there are millions of them - a legitimate army - Leto is pleased and given hope. That gives us a sense of scale within the movie, without wasting a ton of time on exposition or requiring some book knowledge to cover up.", "Yup. Watched it on HBO and thought it was a great film and absolutely gorgeous. \n\nGonna go see it in a theater now. Because it needs to be seen in a theater.", "Feyd comes in pretty early. Granted, his story is told in parallel to Paul's, but the Baron has interactions with him that should have happened in this film, because there are also interactions with Rabban present. And considering where the movie ends, it seems likely that Rabban will be dead before those can occur.", "Huge part. But a book and a movie are different mediums.", "Such a hot take. At least you acknowledge your bias. That said I’m not sure they could have found a better Paul. Timothy is Paul for me just like Bale is Batman.", "Honestly, I went to the theatre, and I regret not seeing it in Imax. Already planning another trip to see it there. Although my second and third rewatch at home, there were a few things that were notable. Closed captions clued me into a few things I'd missed, and altered me that other things were spoken in chakobsa/another language and I didn't just have trouble making it out. And the other one was headphones. While it might not have the bowel shaking quality of the theatre, being able to hear every last little detail in full clarity with my nice headphones was crucial. The soundscape is so incredibly rich and layered that it absolutely deserves to be focused on a full viewing. Zimmerman and co absolutely deserve every sound award out there for this", "As a fan of the book I enjoyed my time with the movie but I felt bad for my mom sitting next to me who definitely had no idea what was going on for at least the first 2/3 of the movie because they explain almost nothing, whereas I was working on the knowledge of the book which explained SO MUCH\n\nIt also didn't help just how hard it was to hear the characters speak half the time due to either loud music or just low whispery voices", "I thought I just heard earlier today that part 2 was greenlit", "There is a very similar scene like this in 1990s cinema classic \"Mortal Kombat: Annihilation\", where Shao Khan and elder gods meet up on screen for the first time.", "Nice username <3", "Okay, honestly? Fuck off, \"this is an adult film\". Snobbish, pretentious, self-righteous bullshit, right off the bat.\n\n[Plenty of people don't feel the same, even people who do know the books.](https://old.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/qezkk0/lockdown_got_everyone_used_to_netflix_subtitles/hhwqijj/) That was a comment I ran into completely randomly. [Or in this discussion as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/qeo31h/hyundai_tucsoon/hhvbqjr/) - super offensive post btw, it's r/4chan so a ton of horrible people.\n\nI took Josh Brolin's line as a sort of fantasy metaphor - plenty of sci-fi and fantasy books have weird sayings and idioms meant to make the world seem more believable. Things like that dart don't show that slow moving objects pass through the shields if you don't already know that. For all you can tell, without the proper explanation, it's not that it intentionally slows down to get through, but rather that the shield just applies force and the dart has enough powerful thrust to push through that.\n\nYou really love to see your interpretations as things people said \"quite clearly\". I only watched it once, so fucking heaven forgive me if I don't remember every single minute detail, but I wouldn't say there was anything completely clear about that. The impression it left me with was that the houses would be inclined to act against the emperor if they found out he had set up Leto's and the Atreides clan's destruction, when, if anything, I would think that would just make them fall in line, unless they think they have legitimate numbers to fight back. But Harkonnen + the imperial army took out the Atreides house like it was just another Tuesday, they didn't stand a chance in hell, so without something that gives some sense of scale to the houses it's just a bit jumbled and what we're told clashes with what we see.\n\nNow, you gonna stalk every single comment of mine to write a fucking essay about your new golden idol?", "They are still on Caladan when that conversation takes place. The Duke says it will be Paul's first time off planet and the they'll be riding a heighliner, not that they are riding a heighliner. Then the next chapter opens with Jessica unpacking on Arrakis.\n\nI should know, I just finished rereading the book 2 days ago.", "Yeah man wtf. You really spoiled it.", "History of the World part 2 is coming out, so there's always hope", "Yes", "Why do you say they'll necessarily band together to \"fight the emperor\" or \"be subservient\"? She says she'll bring it to the Landsraat, which is ostensibly their council. She's \"excited\" only because it's the last-ditch action, earlier this lady and Jessica briefly discuss how much of a shitstorm this is gonna cause. Otherwise no one will know. And this Kines is a dead woman walking anyway, she and Atreides have to roll their dice anyway.\n\nBut yes, a federation like this works on a compact: the houses, or kingdoms, or tribes (here they are more than sovereign nations, they're entire planets at the minimum) answer to a central formal government (that itself doesn't have large continuous holdings), which exists to keep the balance: it allows them to avoid too many expensive and risky wars between them, and helps their economy by stronger ties. It's not a literal centralized government like Rome or British Empire, it's the ceremonial centre of a loose federation. The houses' populace DOES NOT directly answer to the Emperor — it's the medieval-type structure which is implied by \"houses\". Emps can't order them around over the head of their clans. He can give fiefs (like Leto says... to Stilgar I think), and issue his desires to his direct vassals (heads of houses) — in the form of tribute or conditions.\n\n(It's kinda like Vatican BTW, in the period where the Pope helped European kings sort out their alliances and differences without being mired in non-stop wars (including with their own vassals). Very technically, he was their superior, which allowed everyone to keep the balance. But of course, the Pope had absolutely zero say on any particulars of internal or foreign policy of any of these kings, and couldn't order one to attack the other.)\n\nThese \"kings\" pledge their service to the emperor in exchange for this profitable and safe compact with other houses: this way, the sum of them is the biggest bully around. But if the compact breaks, it's more profitable and safe to secede or reform a more viable union, instead of being left holding the bag; the compact's boon was that it made things easier and safer with neighbours, if the neighbours don't uphold it, you're the sucker.\n\nI honestly have no idea how many houses there are, but there are more than 4, or this configuration wouldn't make any sense (or the Landsraat, which implies an assembly of some kind). \n\nI think the issue of the encroaching war is not tackled in the movie because it's not yet its focus, at all. It's about the downfall of house Atreides, the compromised imperial seat, and the looming hegemony of Harkonnens. The particulars of the civil war are not important yet, we just see that it's a loose federative empire on the brink, where everyone and their uncle is dead-sure that THEY are the puppetmasters, and the status quo is being irretrievably lost.", "I enjoyed this scene. The director did a good job at conveying a dark and ancient feeling. I think what had stood out most was pauls acting out in pain. His pain felt very real as watching. I think some of the directors vision for the motheren did not hit the mark for me. The vail made it difficult to see what she was experiencing. Maybe if shes had a thinner vail or colored contacts.", "There's a few kills they needed confirmed.", "The title screen in the movie literally says [“Dune: Party One”](https://i.imgur.com/G1286KM.jpg)", "Can you turn on auto motion plus", "The way the voice feels in theatre is so much better. Really makes a big difference", "They explain it with one line in the film. Slow moving weapons can pierce the shield.", "Her death is irrelevant to the conversation, my point is that she thought there would be some benefit to destabilizing an overreaching government by telling the rest of the houses that he's betrayed Leto.\n\nYou're making a lot of assumptions of things that aren't portrayed in the movies. It clearly doesn't work much like the Pope, because everyone knows that emperor and Harkonnen is setting up Atreides but they don't seem to care at all.\n\nI'm not asking for the \"issue of the encroaching war\" to be tackled. I literally only said that we have no sense of scale of the great houses, they're mentioned as more of an afterthought almost, and that's an example of how the movie doesn't explain things as clearly as the Lord of the Rings movies explain concepts from those books. Why you've gone and turned this into an opportunity to turn this into a masturbatory flex of your historical knowledge is beyond me.", "Best summary of a book into a film is, \"which 60 pages of my book do you want in a movie?\"\n\nBooks have time and space that movie scripts do not. But, cinemas have sound and visuals that books do not.\n\nThis sentence helps me keep perspective when watching an adaptation.", "Dude it was a 2:45 movie that only covered half the book, it was as thorough as a book adaptation movie could be", "Watched it twice on HBO. Just took my friend to go see it in the theater for this reason exactly.", "Yeah this is what hit me the hardest too. Like ok give Momoa a bunch of extra fight scenes but we don't have any time for Feyd Rautha, building up Piter/Thufir/mentats, and don't get me started on Yueh. They just breeze past the Imperial conditioning which made him not even a betrayal suspect. Hell they didn't even put in that they suspected a betrayal was coming.", "Okay, I'll fuck off. I only participated in two threads with you, right next to each other. I'm sorry for making you angry. The comments at the 4chan link say that it was quite readable for the non-readers, and repeated viewings allowed to pick up on additional details.\n\n(\"The impression it left me with was that the houses would be inclined to act against the emperor if they found out he had set up Leto's and the Atreides clan's destruction\" of course they'll act against the emperor, they'll just turtle up or pursue their own goals (like fighting each other), just ignoring the emperor and refusing to legitimize him. It's not an unitary empire like in Star Wars, or there wouldn't be so many talk of the great houses. Harkonnens are their own thing, too, they're not Emperor's henchmen. They just made a deal with him, they say such.)", "I watched it in a Dolby theater as well, however my audio experience was less than great. I can't wait to re-watch it with headphones!!", "I actually laughed out loud in surprise", "I imagine it will not be your last IMAX experience then lol. I have been addicted ever since my first IMAX movie.\n\nAny big movie like this must be seen in IMAX. The experience is just something different too the point it can really elevate certain movies such as Gravity which was just crazy to see in IMAX.", "> Her death is irrelevant to the conversation\n\nI didn't mean it in the sense that she was going to die later in the movie, I meant that she had nothing to lose and forfeited her position and safety long ago (and was basically disposable in the first place). Her play, now, is only to be useful to other houses and participate in the whistleblowing. This can start a war, but it can simply lead to a dynasty change for example. Just like surviving Atreideses, by rights, should have fled the planet and seek refuge with one of the houses, then plan on restoring their holdings.\n\nAgain sorry for angering you, you sound incredibly pissed.", "Yeah, I enjoyed the movie but I thought an epic series would have been more suited to the material. I'm sure they spent a lot of time trying to condense everything. A series would have enabled them to really dive deep into the Dune universe.", "If you can have a conversation without the pretentiousness, I'm down. But if you have to boost your own ego about how it's an \"adult\" film only for big, smart adults like you, with the clear implication that anyone not seeing it the same as you is immature, then yeah, go ahead.\n\nAnd with the might of the Harkonnen, the emperor can whittle down the heads of the rest of the great houses if they try to do that. What you're describing sounds a lot like the Covenant in Halo, but the turn of the Elites was possible because they had numbers, tech, and help from human allies enough to rival the Covenant Loyalists. Nothing suggests the great houses can actually stand against the emperor, if Atreides was taken out with a single attack that didn't even last more than a night.\n\nBut, fine. You won't let yourself accept this. You'll pull whatever context you can to try and justify this aspect of the movie.\n\nLeto's security dude Thufir mentions spies offhand, and then you hear and see nothing of that for the rest of the movie, unless you just want to assume it has to do with the doctor who turned traitor, even though that would go against what the movie shows his involvement was. Supposedly, as I've seen from others who have read the books, that's an entire series of events in the books. At least in Lord of the Rings, you don't get an offhand reference to Tom Bombadill and then just never see him.", "I can see Hawat being captured and his and Gurneys idea that Jessica is responsible fitting nicely into part 2", "Well yeah, you seem unable to just discuss the movie without feeling the need to tell everyone how superior you are. Of course I'm pissed. No one likes the jerk sitting on their high horse.\n\nShe definitely had everything to lose. She had no reason to be on the emperor's bad side. She had originally worked with the Harkonnen, even. She could've just turned a blind eye to everything, kept her head down, and carried on the status quo.", "Don't just see it in theatres. See it in Imax. The score is AMAZING. Especially in tense moments like this scene. It vibrates your soul.", "I get where you're coming from in that there is a general lack of character development in the secondary characters. However for me these are two different mediums completely and that's what the books are for, the long pretty shots of sand are what I wanted out of the movie and I got it. \n\nTrying to develop about 10 characters properly and give characters like Yueh more screen time i think would have made the overall experience worse. These characters are not in the book for very long anyways.\n\nJessica is also not in control internally most of the time in the books and is constantly worrying and even accused Thufir of being a traitor, but you cannot communicate internal struggles and internal scheming on a screen effectively. So showing her struggling in private and in control in front of everyone else (except Paul) was the best and only way to communicate her thoughts. There's only so much you can cram into 2 and a half hours.\n\n The main character is really the setting imo anyways even in the book. I never really felt a strong connection with any of the characters to begin with, everyone is very cold, calculating, and alien. Its the lore and setting that I love about the books and I felt the movie effectively translated all that to the screen.", "Oh jeez okay, MY BAD.", "Watched it twice. I was impressed both times.", "> Heart plugs\n\nWould seem out of place in this film considering it's a Lynch addition and not in the book.", "Yeah I guess, politicians, nobles, admin, etc.", "That's exactly like how it was in the book though which I thought was pretty awesome and faithful to the books. It's literally a page flip and they're on Arakis.", "Yea I felt like I was filling in a lot of silences with memory of the character's thoughts or other conversations from the book. Like Jessica saying \"maker\" and Shadout Mapes screaming. \n\nLess soldiers running and more character development with scenes like the dinner party or discussions between Jessica and Yueh. It steered close to the text, but cut a lot out for a two and half hour part 1.", "1)The purpose of the attack is complete domination/annihilation of House Atreides. 100% cleansing in a way that makes The Red Wedding look merciful. \n\n2)Being the way warfare works in Dune, and the general military resilience of House Atreides, House Harkonen does not feel an orbital bombardant would be enough, even with the House at a disadvantage (Arakis is chosen by the empire for this reason, it makes political sense for the Harkonens to strike back out of greed, while also switching the military advantage of Caladan - sea and air, to...a hostile desert.) - Atreides has essentially some of the best swordsmen in the empire. This requires the deployment of the Saudakar, the emperors blades.\n\n3)being that the empire/emperor does not want his hand reveled in the removal of the Atreides, the Harkonens using them can't be known. So you can't have a witness going \"hey, these dudes were all cut up/physically mutilated...\" word spreads and it's clear the harkonens wouldn't have been good enough on their own. Thus the final bombardment.\n\n4)they need confirmation the cleansing worked. If Doctor Yueh didn't go through with his betrayal, doubtful the Arakis coup would have been as bloodless for the Harkonen, and the Baron certainly wouldn't be able to float in. On top of that, without the Atreides being completely removed, they can make the Harkonen attack political - and thus the emperors ruse of using them for a removal of the Atreides is also blown.", "Lol, at one point Denis called Rebecca Ferguson a 'Stradivarius' and the subtitles say \"titan to values\" xD\n\nand they completely muffed on Kwisatz Haderach as well.", "You're not wrong, but it's a matter of degree. Cut a flashforward of Chani here, a solider running there and you can include more scenes of the character's relationships and personal motivations. Extended conversations were few and far between.", "so should i watch the movie before i watch the linked video?", "A few of the sounds don't have equivalents in English...\n\n\"Denis\" sounds like Ernie if you don't pronounce the R\n\nVilleneuve is like \"Kill Nerve\", again don't pronounce the R\n\nSo \"Ernie Kill Nerve\" kind of rhymes with his name of you don't say the two Rs = \"Duh-NEE Vill-NUV\", emphasis on the second syllables", "I was very biased against Chalamet UNTIL I finished this Dune movie. I just can’t justify hating him anymore after that.", "They also don't mention that Paul is trained as a bene geserit AND mentat. In fact the whole mentat things is almost entirely glossed over, other than Thufirs eyes rolling back and him doing one quick math problem in his head.", "That’s not Michelle Monaghan. It’s Rebecca Ferguson.", "I just didn’t like the Wonder Woman theme song that would start playing way way loud", "I saw it at the movies came home and watched it again and it pales in comparison. Have to go to a watch it at a theatre again.", "[Mother of god. ](https://media.giphy.com/media/G5JoAjEBtfoTm/giphy.gif)", "[Monster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa6Kv1fOStM)", "I have a 1500w external amp running a 15in car sub off my receivers sub-out with a cross set at 35hz\n\nDune goes into the top 5 of bass movies imo", "I just saw it a few hours ago and my very first thought during the credits was \"wow, that was a big movie\". Def one worth the trip to the theater.", "Love the Voice from Lynch’s Dune.", "> probably the most peoples' favorite scene of the book\n\nWhich is that?", "Try learning some [International Phonetic Alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/French). You can use that to decode this [dəni vilnœv].\n\nAfter using it a few times you'll remember a lot of the IPA key and can just glance at [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Villeneuve) for most IPA pronunciations.", "I watched it today in a theatre that had those moving seats, and while I didn’t care much for when it was doing the swooping stuff, the kicks it gave you during explosions during that attack scene were amazing and definitely added to the experience", "didn't seem muddied at all. I don't think non-readers will even realize there are no computers, so it doesn't exactly need to be explained yet", "director's cut isn't the same as an extended edition. I don't think anyone considers the extended LOTR films as the directors cuts, just their own thing.", "seemed like she was reciting that to herself", "completely fine in both the streaming edition and in IMAX for me. Nothing like the nolan films", "yes although I could see him changing the line to not seem so dated", "Like what?", "> with the cumulative effect of it being unreal and austere.\n\nSounds like you understand exactly what the director was trying to convey.", "Yeah it's like Denny Veel-eh-neuv, but the 'eh' is very quick.", "Watched it tonight in the cinema. All good. Some nods to David Lean and Ridley Scott in there. Lots of exposition to set up Part 2.", "So? This movie came out just recently and is introducing the story to millions of people who have probably never even heard of the book.", "The casual moviegoer audience isn't going to be reading those, and they outnumber us probably 50:1.", "Are you a movie pull-quote writer?", "In the books, arent the Sardakaur supposed to dressed in Harkonnen livery? They only knew it was the Sardakaur because of their fighting style.", "Bear in mind, this movie is only half of the book. The other half is a few years down the road, studio gods-willing.", "No. I just play one on TV.", "I didn't know about the exploding shield thing so I assume that personal shielding is so powerful that lasgun is kinda useless, and that's why everyone's sword fighting", "Yea for real. It seemed that the dream sequences and action scenes took up a lot of screen time. I have no idea how much exposition a non reader might have gotten from it.", "Yeah I would recommend watching the movie first", "I know the AI thing now cause I had to look it up. But it is never mentioned in the movie. \n\nThe way one particular guy got taken out so easily by a dart really made me question how effective the shields really are. \n\nHonestly the main problem I have with the movie I have is how it says something but shows something else. \n\nTelling how reliable spice minining machines are and then the first day they visit the fields it malfunctions and got taken out by worm just so the protagonist can save some lives. \n\nConstantly hyping up how badass the Atreus soldiers are but they get taken out in a whim and all of them are unprepared as fuck. \n\nTelling how space navigation is hard but then never even showing the navigators or actually even mentioning much of them, Atreus just reaches Dune in a 2 second scene like a blink. \n\nConstantly telling how dangerous the surface of dune is with out suits but in the later half nether the protagonist or his mother is wearing one for a prolonged time while in the desert and shows no discomfort.", "I've been looking forward to this in iMax for two years. The only iMax in NZ is in Auckland, which has been in lockdown r to months and won't open up until probably Christmas. By then I'll be living in Wellington. Seriously, fuck Covid.", "It is 10,000 years after the butlerian jihad (not AD), when AI were banned. Dune is about a feodal society brought into a space opera. So all this makes sense.", "Sick CGI Holtzman shields", "moving seats??? 😬\n\nFuck that, mine was a bigass recliner and i was very happy 😊", "I personally felt like it was a movie that can really only be enjoyed by people who've read the books. I came in knowing absolutely nothing about the movie (hadn't even seen the trailer) and the movie felt like a slog to me. It went from one scene to the next with no direction and I couldn't even tell when the movie was going to end.\n\nIt was definitely an experience in the same way that driving on a road without any destination and just looking at the pretty scenery is an experience.", "I'd say that if you can, going and seeing it again in IMAX would be worth it.", "> I love that the director is so clearly a big fan of the books.\n\nIt's odd that this isn't the standard. Why do studios ever hire directors who openly admit they're not fans of the source material, or directors who quip about \"subverting expectations\" (by which they mean, intentionally denying fans what they want)? Why would you ever hire that person?", "Ok now this is a director's commentary I will need to watch / listen to. This is wonderful stuff!", "Well, I just watched this video on my phone, like many here. I hope I get to see it on a big screen though. I want to see all those details he talks about in the video!", "Ya fayd comes in around this time when the Baron is parading him around as a fighting champion and he defeats the atreides prisoner that’s not drugged.", "Fucking love this man", "HEY!!! Piters eyes rolled back too ;)", "Great artists like Villeneuve deserves to have 100% artistic freedom with a project like this. The distributors still have too much power when it comes to movies. The \"Part 1\" without even having committed to making a \"Part 2\" is such bullshit (I know they have confirmed the Part 2 now, here several weeks after release). Imagine if other great artists throughout time had to work under such circumstances.", "I'd wish he'd have taken an example of story telling from Lynch. \nHis adaptation lacks relevant parts there and is broken on others....", "The technology was there in 2003. The budget was not lol", "If you watch a Denis Villeneuve expecting Aaron Sorkin dialogues... you might be disappointed.\nI like to describe his movies as \"the stuff you'd find on Arte\", where nothing seems to happen for a very long time, but there is always this unbearable tension that everything is about to come crashing down.\nI'm so glad he's actually being successful as a Hollywood director, because it's a wonderful change of pace from the usual.", "> A lot of the characters and political intrigue were stripped out in favor of action and more passive imagery.\n\nYeah that's what a movie is. A novel adaptation needs to be a tv series to get that kind of detail.", "Definitely perfect. Although Idaho doesn’t exactly have a MASSIVE role in the first book.", "Definitely. Problem is we’re in the golden age of serialized tv and long miniseries. We get tons of character expositions and plot development that you cannot get in movies. And ya i miss a lot of things from the book but god damn was this one of my fave moves in a long time. I’m still buzzing about it. I’ve re read the book 6 or 7 times since they announced DV was directing and i have been so hyped and it delivered. Fuqthehaters!!!!", "Nerve", "> The way one particular guy got taken out so easily by a dart really made me question how effective the shields really are.\n\nIt's a surprise and by a very specialised weapon. If it helps, there's a slight change from the books, where Leto actually is too slow to activate his shield.\n\n> Telling how reliable spice minining machines are and then the first day they visit the fields it malfunctions and got taken out by worm just so the protagonist can save some lives. \n\nIt's made clear in the film (and in the book) that the Harkonnens left a lot of broken machinery behind. Regarding the malfunction, it's another change from the books where the carryall is entirely missing, having been a victim of Harkonnen saboteurs. I understand why DV did it his way though - it doesn't change anything significant and moves things along faster.\n\n> Constantly hyping up how badass the Atreus soldiers are but they get taken out in a whim and all of them are unprepared as fuck. \n\nThey're up against Sardauker! The baddest-assest fighters in the universe (as far as anybody knows). At their peak (Herbert says), any single Sardauker would be good enough to take down any 10 other fighters. If it had been just Harkonnen troops attacking, my money would have been on the Atreides.\n\n> Telling how space navigation is hard but then never even showing the navigators or actually even mentioning much of them, Atreus just reaches Dune in a 2 second scene like a blink.\n\nSame in the book. It's not explained at all. There's some stuff in later books, and a few hints. It's enough to know that space travel is impossible without Guild Navigators, and the spice.\n\n> Constantly telling how dangerous the surface of dune is with out suits but in the later half nether the protagonist or his mother is wearing one for a prolonged time while in the desert and shows no discomfort.\n\nThat annoyed me slightly too. I think there's actually a continuity error. When they find the fremkits in the thopter Yueh prepared, they contain stillsuits. Later Stilgar tells his troop to \"get stillsuits for our guests\".", "Stupid argument", "> Gaius Helen Mohaim thinks she’s going to break Paul\n\nMinor nitpick: GHM doesn't know what the outcome will be. Nobody knows. That's kind of the point with Paul - he's a wildcard, impossible to predict.\n\nAlso, the Gom Jabbar is a test administered to most powerful people, especially those part of the BG breeding program. They want to be sure they're weeding out \"animals\".", "Yes… once you’re already watching it. Not in adverts like I stated.", "Because you have different expectations if you know it’s meant to be a multi part story beforehand?", "Not just this scene. I enjoyed the movie but I felt like the whole movie did a bit of a disservice to Paul. Paul isn't just good at combat. They cut a ton of great dialog out from the book.", "Not sure how this is flying over so many peoples heads that it’s in no way common to “keep up with articles of every upcoming film” unless you know the source material or watch trailers. Trailers didn’t mention it at all.", "Stubborn people acting as if it was common knowledge because they followed the project closely lmao?", "I honestly forgot that they said it's supposed to be seen in IMAX until I started watching it on HBO.\n\nWill most definitely go watch it in theaters now. My breath was taken on just my monitor. I want to experience the scale on a massive screen", "I had chills during that scene (and several others). The visuals in this movie are so well done that they tell stories all by themselves.", "A truly cinematic experience. I was riveted the entire time. Please go see it in the cinema hall, it'll take your breath away.", "You want to kill off potential witnesses and give a show of force, but not bring harm to the important areas like the spice refinery. That requires a little more precision.", "I think the way Villeneuve handled The Voice and it's effects was perfect.\n\nLike you don't even know it's happening and your senses are dulled, like he says \"being in a coma\". Absolute perfection.", ">and a bunch of small stuff\n\nThat's not really an issue, Dune is dense so there's no way to adapt it to film without cutting something. As long as it keeps the spirit of the books I'm happy and I think Villeneuve did just that", "It's one of my favorite series. I'm disappointed to hear the show doesn't live up to it.", "I liked the movie. But why’d the soundtrack try to destroy my hearing?", "I've seen this sentiment being repeated over and over online (and I honestly believe this favourite scene of \"most people\" is just people regurgitating an opinion that they read somewhere else at this point, but that's neither here nor there). I just have one question: How else would you adapt the book into a movie while keeping the run time reasonable?\n\nNobody really seems to appreciate the fact that the director and everyone involved had to convey an enormous amount of information in a short amount of time. The audiobook for Dune is ~22 hours long. I agree that a lot was left out, but the truth of the matter is that Dune is not an easily adaptable book.\n\nThe perfect Dune movie would have been a 20 1-hour episode series with a budget of $50 million per episode (which would be lower than the ~$64 million per hour of runtime of the movie). I am a huge fan of the book and the movie, so I know I am biased, but I have yet to see someone make this critique while also acknowledging the constraints of the \"feature film\" format as it stands in 2021.", "That's not even the worst part. I hate how words connect phonetically into a single fluid thing. It was the reason why I dropped French.", "Several scenes are very similar, f.e. the hunter needle.", "I watched the new one and then the next day I watched the old one. It was a trip worth taking.", "If you love the world building, you have to do yourself a favor and read the book. The film (rightly, for time) cuts out a whole chapter over a formal political dinner with local leaders infiltrated with Harkonnen agents, and the spice harvester rescue is somehow even more badass. There's overall a lot of internal monologue explaining the intrigue and politics of each scene, with explanations on the interplanetary financial system, etc.", "I don't get why Jessica seems to be on the verge of emotional collapse 80% of her screen time though. She has Bene Gesserit training.", "I admit this is highly anecdotal, but most people who I ever seen/heard talk about their favorite parts of the book mentioned th dinner scene. There's a clear trend.\n\n>How else would you adapt the book into a movie while keeping the run time reasonable?\n\nBy cutting down on the gratuitous visual indulgence. The herald of the change scene in the movie has almost 4 minutes and is entirely unnecessary because nothign happened there. The whole thing could be accomplished by a line or two of dialogue, as it was in the books.", "The dinner scene. More than half of people I've seen talk about their favorite scene in the first book mentioned this one scene.\n\nI understand why it'd be hard to film and not great movie practice to introduce a number of oneshot chaarcters. But it does so much towards introducing the political situation and hinting at the complicated relationships there.", "They will realize, but they will question why no computers and why so few guns - I've seen such comments already. And it's a bit sad because there exists an answer, Villeneuve just chose to let it slide.", "Well, not everything can/should be made into a movie. It's been long said Dune cannot, and I think this movie proves it, because it's really well done yet still onyl scratches the surface of what the book is about.", "Ok great but can he explain why Jessica didn't blood the blade before returning it to it's sheath?", "Right but nothing about exploding shields? Jusr curious if I missed it. Because it becomes very important later on.", "The entire movie is already a set up for the second half of the book and feels a bit lacking story wise by itself. My guess is these characters and their fates were left out of the first and will be reintroduced in the second movie to not have plot lines that go seemingly nowhere in the first movie. It is Dune Part One after all.", "Make sure you read at least the next book as well in the series as it puts the whole of the first book into perspective.", "this movie is just bad.", "I'd never seen the 1980s version and watched it yesterday after watching 2021 version. I've never read the books either, but the 1980s version seems like a bad screen writing attempt to cram too much from a book into a movie.\n\nI really liked 2021 version", "Totally agree.", "It’s been successful enough at the box office (given the circumstances) that a part 2 is inevitable IMO, especially when the CEO of WB heavily hinted at it in an interview.", "Could you explain how they were handled better in the original? I haven't gotten around to see it yet. You're referring to the David Lynch version, yes?", "O, the movie 100% convinced me I need to give the books a chance. \n\nI'm finishing up a series currently but dune is next in line.", "It is amazing in theater, I just saw it last night. I want to watch it on streaming now to pick up anything I might have missed", "That was my main complaint, not explains some of the characters.", "Already ok'd for part 2", "I saw Arrival by Denis Villeneuve in theater and was captivated by it. A movie about learning alien language was way too good. And was such a refreshing scifi movie. Then Bladerunner 2049 was also captivating. This director makes movies FOR cinema.", "Ask much as it was part of his character. Its kinda pointless to add to a.movie when there is so little time already.", "i read your comment first, thanks for the warning lol", "Denny Villain-of", "Duncan Idaho in the dune universe is the best swordsman in the empire, with gurney being highly skilled and a great trainer. There why the atreides are so powerful. The duke has support of the Landsraad which is the imperial council of nobles, as well as an army almost on par with the saardakar. This is why the emperor makes the scheme to destroy the atreides they are powerful and threaten his position. But Duncan Idaho is the best swordsman thst came out of a well regarded school and is known as a very handsome and competent man. That's why Jason Momoa was chosen he is handsome af. I very much like the choice they did.", "I loved the harkonen attack,.all the laser and missile fire.", "While it’s a great remake, I would’ve loved if they would continue the story through the first trilogy. F Herbert did amazing story and world building throughout the books", "This is why I prefer TV show adaptations of novels", "Ca se prononce (si tu lis ces syllabes avec un accent américain...) \n\nDuh - Knee - Fill - Nav", "I really like how he shot the effect of the voice. It's like it's pulling the camera into unconsciousness. Such a cool solution to the zombie walk.", "It does... but I stopped going to theaters because of all the 14 year olds (and people in their twenties who's maturity levels peaked at 14) ruining the experience for me.", "Okay. This video tipped the scales. I gotta watch it now.", "I want to watch the movie with him telling me everything about every little scene.", "I wonder why both these movies were so similar. Almost as if there was somehow a common \"source\" they share. Like an secret \"script\" that already described these details.", "I'm a little concerned, I just bought IMAX tickets with soda and a drink but I've apparently been living under a rock and hadn't even heard of Dune until a couple months ago... book or movie.\n\nI'm starting to get the feeling I may not enjoy the film unless I at least look up a primer based on some of what I'm reading, any opinion on that?", "Just my opinion, but I believe there is some important visual storytelling and world building going on in that scene:\n\nThe book often repeats the idea that by agreeing to take over Dune, the Duke is pretty much dead already, nothing can be done for him. He is aware of the danger - though not to the degree that everyone else is. Still he accepts his duty. You can see the Duke is nervous, perhaps afraid, in this scene yet duty bound and loyal. The sense of foreboding during the signing is palpable. \n\nThe power of the emperor is demonstrated in the scene as well. Visually through the sheer magnitude of the ship simply sent to deliver the message. Additionally, he can compel a great house to leave their home planet of generations with a simple decree. There is no negotiating at all, no questioning, just a word and it is so. \n\nTo me, the information presented in that scene (and others like it) was not new, but I think it is a decent way is distilling ideas from the book into small amount of time. Could it have been done better? Sure, but I'm just some guy on reddit, what do I know?", "You're 100% better off going in blind to this version of Dune than David Lynch's version.\n\nNew Dune does a fantastic job of pruning out a lot of the world building (which is IMMENSE) in favour of having a coherent plotline.\n\nI watched it with my brother who has never seen or read any Dune, and he said it was the best Sci-Fi movie he's ever seen.\n\nEnjoy!", "But then pulls it all together and is stoic and calm as she walks into Leto's room.", "This man is the greatest living director right now IMO. Protect him at all costs.", "I had read the book but my wife didn't. We went to go see it in IMAX and she said it was like seeing Lord of the Rings for the first time. Please do yourself a favor and see this in theaters!", "I thought i noticed this too. The ship is a portal. When they leave Caladan, they pretty much fly into the big ship and out the other end, now at Arrakis", "I watched it at home on HBO first and thought it was amazing then, but then went and saw it in IMAX with some friends.\n\nThat scene >!in the tent with his mother where he yells at her with the Voice!< made me jolt with how powerful it felt.", "Hooo yea, I got massive goosebumps and a lump in my throat at that stage - she's a true Bene Gesserit alright - but then Leto railroads the conversation she wanted to have... I can easily imagine if she'd told him she was pregnant he'd have fled into the desert with her and Paul, avoiding everything that was to come. \n\nMaybe Paul was subconsciously aiming down that path when he told his mother this, trying to spur the action that would keep the family safe.", "I saw it for the first time yesterday. As always with movies I'm really excited for, i was kind've let down. But i just got a text saying that I'm off work today, so i might have to smoke myself some spice and go see it again", "The entire movie split into 470 cartridges back-to-back on gameboy advance", "It's a matter of degree, a lot of it will be necessarily replaced in the translation to a new medium but I felt he took too much out in favor of vague imagery.", "What are you talking about? Nothing you said is some distressing, impossible situation.\n\nIt hasn't been out \"multiple weeks\"..\n\nIs there anything factual in your statement? You should get yourself upset more over nothing. Seems to be doing you well.", "I was expecting Frank Herbert dialogue which we got in little dribs and drabs. Intelligently written conversation does not need to be witty, snappy, fast-paced, etc. in the vein of Sorkin. It's one of the greatest strengths of the books. And yes I realize it's an adaptation, but to largely discard one of the primary things that makes it such a classic is disappointing.", "Agree - I feel like there was a lot of visuals that while were great looking, the movie already runs long at 2.5 hours.", "They didnt bomb the entire city, but only parts of it. \n\nIt could make sense to sent strike teams to the important targets needed to take over (Spaceport, Spice refinery, etc) first to and then bomb the secondary targets.", "Nor is it required to enjoy a film.", "also in the book, it is known that when a laser interacts with a shield it has a nuclear effect the same as setting off a bomb so the city most likely saw his shield go down and started to target them. there's also the fact that arkcas is one of the only planets where guns are used because of shield generators that give the freeman the premenitant advantage because they are gun weapons experts.", "How can you dislike something that didn't happen. Do you smell burnt toast?", "Except americans pronounce that with a hard r", "There’s multiple books. So no matter which way you slice it, it was always a potential part 1.", "because the soldiers first had to disable the city's shield generator so they sent in their elite sardakar soldiers first then bombed the city/", "[It premiered in my country on the 16th of September](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/releaseinfo)\n\nAs for the rest of your comment, you seem very angry for no reason. Maybe think a little about how you address people online.", "Sure, but there's a swing either way. Watch the first episode of the scifi mini series, in an hour and a half, you will have gotten more story detail, more character development, and be further in the story than the movie. Why? There's more dialogue, there's more scenes it doesn't spend 45 seconds ever few minutes watching someone walk.\n\nDon't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the movie (and I'm certainly not saying the mini series is better), but the movie hugely swings toward showing visuals over story telling and character development.", "You fail to realize the only \"problem\" in all of this, is you. You, what you think and what you \"believe\" don't matter. \n\nSorry bud.", "They chose the right person for this job", "This is a movie to watch in the theater", "The original Dune was a solo film and not the only book/comic to get one. Part one comes up in the opening sequence.\n\nFellowship of the Ring confirmed it was a trilogy out the gate as did many book-movie adaptions. What's so wrong about including it in the trailer?", "Maybe he will bring it in part 2. I think Villeneuve had to choose the lesser of two evils to even be able to compress Dunes complexity and details into 2 movies", "Fair enough. Part of the thrill is that she really is testing him. I always read both iterations as her expecting him to fail, both because Jessica defied the BG to have him and nobody challenges their authority; and because it was implied that his lack of training/focus would be his doom.", "They blended in better and gave a better feeling of him \"knowing\" the vision a bit less than seeing the whole thing.\n\nGuess they are showing us too much", "Oh the dinner scene could have really helped. Poison snoopers, politics, water towels to the beggars outside etc. \n\nI loved it anyways, but you are correct this scene could've helped a lot and highlighted they were on Dune for more than 2.5 seconds before being invaded.", "Not saying it’s wrong they didn’t, but there are multiple articles published in as early as July(didn’t bother looking past page 1 on my google search) that mention it was part one. Not saying that’s sufficient but it’s not like they were hiding it.\n\nEdit: wrong comment reply, whoops", "Even if everything isn’t 100% clear, this movie in IMAX is an astonishing spectacle. The audio is so powerful it will knock you over. The shots are so expansive you’ll feel like you’re falling into the screen.\n\nI watched it last night with a friend and he said he couldn’t keep track of all the factions. Given that, here’s the ten second primer:\n\nHouse Atreides: the good guys\nHouse Harkonnen: the bad guys\nThe Emperor: the supreme leader of the galaxy\nThe Sardauker: the Emperor’s personal troops, the most feared warriors in the galaxy\nThe Fremen: natives of Arrakis(Dune), religious zealots\nBene Geserits: mysterious matriarchs that pull the strings of the galaxy throughout the millennia\n\nYou’ll figure everything else out as you go. Some things are only explained through context, and it’s like that in the book too so don’t worry if something seems confusing at first.", "Well yeah you can't use shields in the desert because it drives the makers into a killing frenzy :)", "I didn't say they hid it, they neglected to mention it unless you followed closely, many people don't; OP isn't the only person I've heard say they didn't know it was a \"part one\" until they saw so on screen - even some book readers. That's my entire point people seem to be arguing with me over lol.", "Because I know that it DID happen, the movie just didn't show it.\n\nI I am to judge it as a standalone thing, it's just kind of unexceptional and shallow and maybe that's ok.\n\nI I am to judge it as bringing a specific story to screen, then I recognize the parts that are very well done, but I also know what parts were left out and what they mean and how they change the understanding.\n\nSince every scene that IS in the movie is almost as faithful (and well done) as can be, I think it needs to be judged as the latter. In contrast, 1984 Dune started following the books but ended up doing its own thing, this one is close all the way, except it does not tell the full story and for that I am sorry.", "Same. IMAX is gonna be glorious. First time ever in excited about movie technology.", "> Shielding technology made missles and lasers unusable as general weaponry. You could only kill other soldiers and attack dedended places though slow attacks like knives and swords etc.\n\nMinor spoiler about weaponry in the movie (I haven't read the books or seen the 80s Dune)\n>!The Harkonnens have some bombs that slow down as they are reaching a shield and then pass through it. Feels like the bombs probably could have been used on all the buildings; I doubt the shield would protect you from 100 tons of stone crushing you. But this is nitpicky. !<", "I accept movies are better at showing than telling and should do so if possible... but probably not at the expense of other plot points. And for showing all that you said a 30 second scene would have imo sufficed. Or doing it as a conversation of Jessica and Leto you could probably have accomplished the same while also showing the intimacy of their relationship - which also wasn't exactly on display in the movie - and weaving in a topic like Yueh's background or something else useful.\n\nI can't shake the feeling that the movie focuses way too much on visually impressing viewers when the wow-scifi stuff should be just the backdrop, or icing on the cake if you will, for the intrigue and philosophy that is the real core of Herbert's story.", "Having seen it: \nIt is very well made. The complaints I have about it are very trivial and nitpicky, because the core of the movie was fantasticfantastic.", "It's not lazy with Dune, it's a necessity. So much of the books is just explaining how the spice affects the mind. It needs to be described. It's one of the reasons they completely left out explaining anything about mentats in the new movie. The new movie even cheats by hiding the narrator in Paul's educational videos and having characters explain things to each other that would make no sense in real life. For example, there would be no reason whatsoever for Gurney to say, \"The slow blade penetrates the shield\". Paul would obviously already know that. It's Gurney being the narrator.\n\nIf you want to hate Lynch's Dune, do it for the right reasons, like they just made a ton of shit up for no reason that had no point in being their and Paul end's up being some magical Jesus dude that covers the planet in rain and ruins it entirely.", "Hint? It was as subtle as a brick to the face.", "I completely forgot that he was also in Interstellar until someone mentioned it here on Reddit", "As she intended too.", "And people who havent read the book still want to watch the movie", "I love Dune. I read the book about once a year or two. You can feel the love for the book ooze out of every scene in this movie. Every background detail is so good. It is the best book adaptation I have ever seen. I loved it.\n\nThe casting... the props.. just everything.", "They could done two 3 hour movies. LOTR did and nobody minded.", "Paul Verhoeven wasn't a fan of the book Starship Trooper and still made a fantastic movie.", "I’m reading the dune books right now and every time I read about the shields they get more useless. It’s weird that in actual life our warfare research goes like “better armor then better weapons then better armor and repeat” but in Dune it’s like “everything goes slow to just ignore shields entirely including bombs”.", "I’m reading the book right now and at about the halfway point, at no point did I feel Jessica an outward mess like she constantly is in the film and I’m actually surprised by how stoic and badass she is. The closest I’ve seen is her argument with Leto over where to put the painting (which I still don’t understand the point of)", "That’s the book. I’m reading it now and they’re just on Arrakis all of a sudden", "/r/beetlejuicing/", "I think he just wanted melee combat and the shields were the excuse for why everyone isn't using guns instead.", "It was a complaint that I got from someone who saw the movie but had never experienced Dune before (in any format).\n\nThere are so many things that are technically explained adequately with a line or an action but not in detail. The issue being that a first time viewer who is not familiar with the source material can miss those things. \n\nThere is a lot to take in during each scene. Sometimes you are still processing something that happened in the previous scene when a critical plot point (like the shield thing) gets dropped in what feels like a throw away line and you miss it.\n\nThis makes the viewing sort of frustrating and feels like there should have been more worldbuilding. But at the same time, the movies runtime was long enough as-is and if more time had been taken it would have been 2 and a half hours of nothing but worldbuilding and exposition.\n\nWe came to the conclusion that the cinema is just the wrong format for such an expansive world as Dune. A miniseries would have been more appropriate.\n\nThat said, this movie probably came as close to a perfect Dune movie as is possible given the format and the scope of the source material.", "That's easy to follow when written in a book but with film it's better to be able to just visually distinguish the two different forces.", "I'm literally addicted to this movie. I've watched it 3 times already and still have not enough. I need help lol.", "I think this is where my few complaints stem from. There's so much source material, and so much of it is so important to world building, I was initially upset that there wasn't more included. An example of that is the dinner in the book where the power dynamics of the world are clearly laid out around a table to see.\n\nThe more I think about it, the more this would have been fantastic as a limited mini-series.\n\nRegardless, I thought Villeneuve did a fantastic job. He deserves the second part and I hope it's green-lit soon.", "Seeing how I just read that Dune is a box office hit, I am reasonavly sure it will be", "Yeah. One of the big ones was the one at the spice crawler where Paul didn't return to the ship. I'd have to read again (or at least double check the book), but I'm about 85% sure that didn't happen. And it wasted so much time that could have been spent on other things.", "I don't think they really break your warfare research example. Those shields are better armor than what we have now and most advancements do have drawbacks to them in one fashion or another.", "I’ve never seen those shields used a single time to any success in the first half of the book I’ve read or the film. A shield isn’t a good shield if the main weakness is “go as slow as the book needs to bypass it for bombs, swords, darts, hunter killers, etc”. I get that the book is like 50+ years old and that’s probably where it stems from but Id rather there just be no shields than them never actually be useful in a scenario past “they protect our house and occasionally our ship”. I mean the moment they step on Arrakis it’s like “oh those attract worms so fuck those”", "Fantastic movie? It's Starship Troopers. it's \"So bad it's good.\"", "Hmmmm. I don't want to spoil anything, but halfway, you should have passed the point already.\n\nWell, anyway, when Leto dies Jessica isn't outwardly a mess, but her thoughts are scrambled and racing. And it's during their meeting with Kynes and subsequent escape. It's a lot of over monologs and noting how calm and collected Paul is. \n\nWithout going the Lynch route and just having them have thoughts on screen, I'm not sure how else you show that.", "Honestly they could drop that particular detail from the novels and the material would probably be stronger for it.", "Yup, me too. I can't do theatres anymore without feeling angry for most of the movie. People talking, playing on their phones, kicking seats, bringing babies, etc. I'd much rather watch a good movie I care about in the comfort of my own home.", "I saw the film so no worries there.\n\nTbh I don’t think someone panicking internally is really a sign of being a mess. The opposite actually. I have horrible anxiety and panic internally all day long but if you speak to people around me they’d say I’m not one to panic under pressure because I keep it internalized and don’t show it in my tone or actions. \n\nHowever Ill keep reading and see how her character develops, thanks for the discussion!", "I can see what you mean, yeah.\n\nAt least with this video, we can really see that whatever decisions he took, you know it came from a place of love and respect for the book and its author. I think that's the most important for an adaptation.\n\nYou know the differences didn't come from a complete lack of knowledge, or worse, a disregard for the original work, like some other directors whose names and resulting movies/TV shows i wish purged from my mind, expect as a warning that it can and will happen, no matter how important you and I may think a work is.", "Eat me!", "The film does realism very well. I think it was a great idea to have a stereotypical British documentary-style narrator at the beginning when Paul is reading. It subconsciously primes the viewer to take in the film as if it were a documentary about an alien world. And later on when they are rescuing the harvester you have radio chatter that sounds just like what you would hear in real life.", "There were so many powerful moments in the movie that brought tears to my eyes, simply because they touched something deep within me; a recognition of scenes and actions which I've only experienced in my mind's eye. This was one of them, and Paul's emerging KH powers, so masterfully visualised by the cuts and the music score, really touched my core. Getting the litany against fear spoken in a scene lie that... It was mind boggingly awesome. \n \nI'm glad Denis made the film, and in this director's break down, everything he says is spot on: the atmosphere they were going for, the way they've filmed it all, and the feeling of ancient culture by being in a library all clicked with me. I do hope that super Director's cut will be coming out some day because I need it!", "Yeah, I loved the 2 LotR movies. My favorite duology.", "I mean, the times she uses the litany, you can physically see the fear washes over and through her. The only scene that she truly struggles to regain her composure is when Paul is being tested, but otherwise you can see the transformative effect of that mantra. Which works nicely, imo, as a way to reflect things visually rather than relying on voice-over inner monologues which would just feel foreign in the film.", "The Spice Diver fan edit is the ultimate Lynch version in my opinion.", "Me, happy with the SyFy ones and waiting for people to stop starting over with everything: 💀", "I didn't like the hunter killer though. From what I remember it was supposed to be nigh on impossible to see it when it's facing you. That little drone was meh", "IMAX was totally worth it for this film.", "I obviously meant the 3 hour runtime.", "Ahhhh hahaha we joke. Look at us just jokin' around. Us jokers.", "The book would be widely different if those shields didn't exist. It removes all modern guns, missiles, lasers from the equation and explains why the fremen do not use shields. Like, you are looking at the point your OG example of when weapons are better than the armor portion but from a literary point, they are there to remove modern fast moving projectiles and nothing more. Taking the shields completely away creates a plothole of \"why don't they just use guns.\"", "Suspiciously specific", "Awesome. Will be my next watch!", "I've heard it is a perfect candidate for iMax if that is an option", "Oh I get the reason why, it’s just very difficult for me to imagine the year 10000 or something where they’re fighting with rapiers that have to be stabbed slowly to kill someone, yet in the year 2021 (more like 1970-80) we have stab and ballistic vests that can handle way worse and aren’t “energy shields”. Its a minor gripe at best and one that the author couldn’t have foreseen but it’s still hard for me not to chuckle every time shields are mentioned or used or bypassed\n\nLike I laughed pretty hard in the theater Thursday when a certain character was killed by a dart that like sat spinning in their shield for like five-ten seconds. It looked pretty ridiculous and useless even with modern CGI applied to it.", "The Atreides guards on the steps in the Keep holding back the Harkonnen troops, and then the Sardaukar drop behind them and just butcher them. That was brutal.", "Watched it yesterday on iMax. I hate to add to the hype, but I’ve never felt this way about a movie. It was perfect for me. Somehow he captured everything like I saw it in my mind while I read the book, and the only changes were for the better.", "Yea yea yea.... but in a scene from the book you can do a lot of things different, if you wanna. But Villeneuve didnt wanna. And why would he? Lynch's movie has, in places, a very vivid image language.", "Without those fighting scenes though I feel like casual/average watchers will feel it's too slow. \n\nI loved every second of this movie, but my dad definitely thought it was going to be faster paced and more action.\n\nIt sucks for those who prefer a more fleshed out movie, but average viewers is what make the companies money.", "That was my experience with it as well. It was a slog, with great acting and visuals, that seemed to go nowhere for the majority of the film.", "I meant to phrase it as \"it wasn't in the book and I would have liked for it to have happened.\"", "I thought the ban on \"thinking machines\" was pretty clear indication that any non-organic computing devices were banned. Aka \"computer\".", "If I could watch it in a theatre alone I would go to the theater. I’ll take the less than amazing experience of home viewing over listening to people talking, lighting up the theatre to check their phone, and people eating any day.", "Ah, I agree there. I was confused and thought I had missed something", "my (probably incorrect) attempt: Hoof but with an N instead of an H. Noof.", "I feel like Yueh's betrayal was quite rushed compared to the 80s movie, and didn't get into any of the details about imperial conditioning or friendship with Paul.", "Denis has a particular way of shooting scenes at nights, they look really authentic unlike some movies where nights are too bright or too dark. The Harkonnen attack sequence was amazing, wish I experienced it at the theaters.", "Bummer. There's some cool clips in the trailer that didn't make it into the movie.", "Gotta have taboos to break! And anyway if shields didn't exist and lasers weren't so spectacularly dangerous to deploy against them we would just be back to Marines in Space or pew pew star wars action 😅", "Gotta be tough, so much of the book dialog is inner voice politics.", "Oh, that's a great idea. I loved the info download on the fremen using his future YouTube projector, because it makes sense for the character to be researching everything when he's about to move there.", "I really enjoyed the movie but for some reason it didn't feel....weird enough.", "Nuhv", "The depiction of Voice in this movie is so perfect imo.", "In QC we just say Vilnuhv", "The '84 Dune does this, but I feel the movie hits you over the head too much about being \"the One\" like the Matrix, and kind of cheapens it. By mentioning it less it stands out more as it unfolds.", "Yeah, I agree to a point. I don't think there are a lot of \"Average\" viewers out there itching to see Dune in the theaters. Dune has to hit the SciFi fans that perhaps are more mainstream and are not necessarily readers of the book or have seen the Lynch version. Obviously fans of the book or Lynch are going to see Dune so you can put a checkmark in that. But the other folks, the ones who maybe got their first foray into fantasy with Game of Thrones, they are the ones that need to like Dune and talk about it at the virtual watercooler and maybe convince others to see it. I tried to watch Dune with their perspective in mind and I think they were probably more or less lost. There is just not enough explanation of the world, the characters, the underlying plot, the struggles, the internal dialogue. \n\nThe Dr. Yueh conundrum, Jessica's situation (as an unmarried concubine), and Thufir Hawat (proud Mentat, head of security, and the closest thing to a computer in the universe) could've all been summarized by including the confrontation between Jessica and Thufir from the book where they are both suspicious of each other as the betrayer while discounting Yueh as a possibility due to his Imperial Suk conditioning. They didn't even play the angle that they knew there was a betrayal coming but answered the call to Arrakis anyways. There's bravery and plot and pride that goes unmentioned. \n\nI want Dune to be popular because I love Dune from the books to the miniseries to Lynch to even the Jodoworsky documentary. I think they nailed so much with the visuals of this movie and I can tell that Villeneuve put a lot of heart into keeping this true to the canon. I just think that some of the misses that I can only chalk up to \"bringing in the average viewer\" actually achieve the opposite and push those viewers away with a plot that seems fairly empty.", "Yea and with the whole woke culture thing, saying \"no woman has ever\" would be an easy out of context Twitter flame war. When in reality she just never did the test on a man before because all bene geseret are women. \n\nI could see him just showing not telling to avoid the minefield.", "Glad they enjoy it but... That's on them", "I was skeptical about this movie but Denis speaks so articulately and passionately about just this one scene... I'm blown away. What a contrast to contemporary directors...", "I don't remember anyone saying that in the movie. Which scene was it?", "I saw a side by side comparison of this scene and in the original dune movie they basically quote lines verbatim from the book. While some of that is still here for the important parts, they actually show what is happening. For example, in the first movie, they literally had the bene geserite mother read the \"... First an itch... Then burning...\" line from the book out loud", "Actually maybe you are right, explanation of Mentat was omitted from the new movie. Maybe I'm mixing up between the one from 80s.", "> When they find the fremkits in the thopter Yueh prepared, they contain stillsuits. Later Stilgar tells his troop to \"get stillsuits for our guests\".\n\nI might be mistaken, but I think Paul says \"No stillsuits, the one thing we would actually need\". They had that tent instead and a beacon.", "I think what you're against is what's intrinsic to cinema. And I hate that people are downvoting your 100% legitimate opinion that they (and I) disagree with.", "THIS. We had to leave Mortal Kombat because some pathetic divorced dad got mad that people (myself included) were shushing him. He tried to pick a fight with my boyfriend and that's when we decided to leave", "I feel like you just described Dr.Who.", "The theater I saw it in was so quiet that I quickly stopped even eating popcorn during the quiet scenes of the movie. I think the audience was in awe the whole time. It felt that way. Great movie and I am lucky to have an awesome movie theater (with all reclining seats) within walking distance of my house. Actually, two awesome movie theaters that are that close.", "Don't sleep on his Blade Runner sequel. Shit was legit.", "Instead, in this, I think there's a throwaway line about the satellite's being out.", "I wonder what people who’ve never read the books thinks of the movie then. My wife got bored of it. The only other movie I can recall where she did that was Moneyball.", "I got the same vibe. I only recently read the book a few months ago and it quickly became one of my favorite books I’ve ever read. Everything that is in this movie is essentially exactly how I imagined it in my head while reading it. I found myself getting excited during each scene anticipating how everything was interpreted from the book. They did such an amazing job.", "I have really been enjoying watching big, cinematic movies in virtual reality in a big virtual theater. It isn't quite as good as the real thing, but almost. If you want to feel the bass like you can in a theater, there are haptic vests that provide that, but I haven't got one of those. You can even enjoy movies with other people in VR and mute them or kick them if they're disturbing anyone. This is where I rewatch movies that I've seen in a theater to almost approximate the experience. You can do this on an Oculus Quest 2 which cost only $200-$300.", "The problem with the movie is that he split the the book into two parts and the movie just ends yet the sequel hasn't been greenlit. There's no real resolution to the events in the movie. It's amazing at world building, but we far as storytelling, without a sequel already in the works, it's broken. I get that the intent was to do it in two parts, but you have to make two complete movies even when you do that. The first one just feels incomplete.", "Yeah I think Irulan says that in Lynch's movie. Some people hate that narrated intro but I don't get why, I think it's the most well done thing about that movie. The new one could have used something like it too, but I guess framing devices are out of style these days.", "It's not merely zeal that outlawed them. Lore is that a group of people tried to use AI to enslave humanity, but the AI outsmarted the humans and then decided humans are useless, and proceeded to try to eradicate all humans. When humanity (barely) survived the war, it became a fiercely upheld law to the degree of religious zeal to ban all \"thinking machines\".\n\nMoreover, those drugged babies are apparently better than machines, because they can perform analytical calculations and provide mathematical proofs, which no machine can do (even if they approximate, they are constrained by Gödel's theorem). As long as there is melange there is no need for thinking machines, because that drug makes the price of computation more cost efficient.\n\nAnd yeah, silly, sexy Duncan must die.", "Mushrooms", ">What would look futuristic to you?\n\nI gave a very clear example, the shield. \n\nObviously I'm not asking for a realistic representation of future technology, I don't even know what your point is. \n\nWe can hopefully agree that future technology probably wouldn't look like today's ancient ruins. \n\nThe gom jabbar is supposed to be a discreet little needle on top of a thimble, you would wear it on your finger tip and no one would know you have it. Spoiler: it's used later to kill the Baron, and the ability to hide it even when captured and presumably searched is essential.\n\nThe gom jabbar in the movie is big and it's needlessly decorated to look \"ancient.\" It's a modern weapon, it shouldn't look ancient, and it shouldn't be so big. \n\n\nLoved the way it looked, loved the way it was shot, loved the movie. But that's one area where it isn't faithful to source material.", "Yeah, I agree! I think it's interesting to have such movies once in a while: on one hand, they ask for a bit of nerding out later and/or rewatching; and on the other, they're not forbidding or cringeworthy when coming in cold. And also impressive and ambitious just as cinema: in their visuals, rhythm, emotional stuff, mood.\n\nI went away from the theater with this impression of a balancing act. Was it a bit heavy, both to take in and sit through? Yes, definitely. But it didn't go over the edge there. And did it purposefully distance itself from \"being sci-fi\", with all the lore and comfortable excess of details? Yes. But it didn't crudely dumb down things, instead it hinted at the complex stuff offhand, as if it was a historical drama on crusades. I liked that solution.", "I think this version is more cinematography focused whereas the previous version was more narrative focused.", "The scene in question is a secret meeting with a secret order about secret abilities possessed by the main character. It makes sense that they're whispering in the dead of night.\n\nSound mixing and editing can ensure dialogue is audible; but then I didn't have an issue with this and don't in the clips linked in this thread.", "Yeah it’s very clear Harkonnen is a villain. You don’t need to plumb the heart of darkness to demonstrate that.", "None can surpass Sting", "mesterværk", "I think he also should do an extended edition. There's quite a few things left out of the final cut that were disappointing to see omitted.", "It's their fault that somebody online callously spoiled a new-release movie for them?", "That's the dream! I've got a good setup at home so I watch movies I'm passionate about there first and then go to the theatre after, if it's worth it.", "That would make more sense, I agree. Certainly wasn't room for any suits.", "Oh yeah, Sold out in the theater I like, so I just watched it at home. But after seeing it I'm actually more motivated to see it on the big screen. Such a visual tour-de-force. Just begs to be viewed on the biggest screen you have. \n\nI was worried about the narrative flow, but aside from a couple not picks in the second half, I thought they nailed that too.", "My unpopular opinion.\n\nI thought this movie was very boring.\n\nExceptional visuals though.", "I didn’t like Zimmermans score. Something about a woman wailing incoherently for 45mins was off putting. The bag pipes were cool though.", "Me and my wife have been to the movies to see it - it's an experience tailored for the big screen. The movie is so good, 3 days layter we are watching it again at home and we both want to start reading the books. And I am also waiting for my friends to go to the movies, so I can go with them watch it again.\n\nThis movie is amazing!", "Mr person. It's existed for over half a century. There comes a point where we stop caring about spoilers. Not to mention that dune has been announced as coming to theaters for years now, anyone who cared enough could and should have read the book. \n\nAND another movie about dune already exists If a remake of Harry Potter comes out 10 years from now, are you going to be mad about any Snape kills Dumbledore comments?!", "I tried to start ASOIAF after watching GoT and got kind of bored after the initial excitement of seeing the same dialog from the show. I think Dune will be the opposite for you. A large portion of the text is what’s going on in the characters’ heads so I think it’ll be really cool for you and others sort of see between the lines of Denis’s adaptation.", "Wait, is it not \"Dennis Vill-Ee-New-Vee\"?", "[Damn right.](https://imgur.com/bonQiOJ)", "Bought 2 IMAX tickets. Will not watch on HBO max until I see it at least once in imax. Super excited. Last Frank Herbert book I completed was God emperor", "I saw it on IMAX and there was a scene toward the end with a wurm and the bass shook the seats so much I thought I was in a 4D movie for a sec.", "He's got a great aesthetic for mimicking the source material to make it feel like an extension of that director as well as imbuing his own style\n I was getting sick heavy 80s Dune vibes in the design. Blade Runner 2049 also showed off his talent. I wish he was in charge of the Star Wars prequels... Or any of these sequels. He really knows how to turn sci fi into cinema", "Yeah, by this time the production design of the Lynch movie is part of what makes \"Dune\" Dune. It would be impossible to completely ignore what had come before, much the same way Peter Jackson incorporated elements from Ralph Bakshi's animated film.", "There's not a ton of people at the showings friends and I have gone to; probably because it's on streaming too.", "I bought a ticket that I'll never use and watched it on HBO. I want the sequel(s).\n\nProbably buy another ticket and see it when there won't be other people in the theater.", "People forget that the first rule of movies is Show, Don't Tell! It's why exposition gets ragged on so much. I think Denis does a good job of translating text into imagery. It seems like a lot of complaints come from younger people who are used to serial movies like Game of Thrones and don't understand how movies like this should be experienced. I also think all the sci fi gibberish (bene Gesserit, quisach haderich, etc) kind of distracts newbies from the conflicts in the story making it confusing to follow, but plays a background role in building up the Duniverse for later movies.I thought the plot was pretty direct and the movie does have a Hero's Journey in that Paul comes out stronger than the start and, as his dad says, finds his own way to be a leader.", "Guy gets a gum jibber from an old woman? Think I’d remember that", "But again, what would that look like?\n\nIdeas of \"futuristic\" lean heavily on very short lived fashion ideas and design trends. Just look at most Sci-Fi prior to the 70s to see how short lived those ideas really are. We went from space ships with perfect, white, sterile walls to a more grungy industrial look in more recent times, for example. Hell, just look at what a premium \"handmade\" items fetch in our world. We already have the capability to precision engineer items to near perfection (at least visually), so we reach for different visual styles and imperfections to set objects apart, to make them \"special\".\n\nAnd again, \"ancient\" is kind of meaningless in this context. Ancient to us. Is a Ka-Bar knife more futuristic than a scimitar? Sure, by our standards. But engineered right, and they both cut the same.\n\nDune (even the book) flies in the face of any idea of time being an arrow that points in only one direction, that the future will look like today, but with even MORE of the stuff we currently think is neat. The entire society is backwards compared to what we enjoy today. And perfect gets boring after a while. The real brag is when you can make something that looks imperfect work perfectly.\n\nAnd then there's the fact that this is a multi-millennia ritualistic society. Some of those items are ancient.\n\nAs for the Gom Jabbar: I could take it or leave it. It's a small needle, it still kills, it's still concealable, and it still evokes the same image Herbert was going for, which is the kind of weapon a woman might carry in a deeply patriarchal world. It checks the boxes for me, but that's just a matter of personal taste.", "Yes, Yueh really felt as important as the fremen maid in this version.\n\nI guess Villeneuve doesn't like traitors ?", "She seems like a complicated character. With my knowledge of book being essentially what people on Reddit have said (bought the first 3 and waiting for them to arrive), I gather that she is almost a failed Bene Gesserit. \n\nShe was supposed to just be a concubine to Leto, and to give birth to a daughter continuing the mission of the Bene Gesserit. Nothing more. Instead Leto falls in love with her, with what little evidence there is (the head massage, the tucking into Letos hand on the back of her neck) she falls in love with him, and she gives birth to a son. Almost as if she “unlocked” her humanity in essence. \n\nShe still has this stoic Bene Gesserit training and upbringing that is the complete antithesis to what she feels. Additionally, from my perspective of the final scene where Jessica’s smile fades, her humanity also likely introduced the need to seek the approval of the Reverend Mother. She selfishly seeks to earn the validation of the Bene Gesserit after seemingly failing so many times. I suspect that she will throw a wrench into things!\n\nI can’t wait to read the book, and it’s so reassuring to hear that the movie seemingly follows it very closely.", "I mean, multiple cast members said they filmed A LOT more things than what made into the movie. Now, all that footage could be \"crap\" and purposefully left out. But then there's content from the book that could have been included a bit more.\n\nThey brushed over the FTL travel, space guild, in a few small explanation scenes. We didn't see any of it. \n\nI don't believe the word Mentat was even mentioned, yet it's pretty important in explaining the universe. \n\nNone of this ruined the movie by any means. Like I said: I LOVED it. I'm just greedy and I want MORE ;) \n\nBut the fact that they breezed over some stuff, and that multiple actors say they filmed a lot of other crap leaves me hopeful that there's some extended edition that adds it all back. Hell, they got HBO Max involved. Break it up into 3-4 hour episodes and sell it as new content! I'll eat that shit up.", "Finally I found another person who likes the 2000s adaption. It was a good one! Blended enough intrigue and lore that you could feel how alien their era is, yet kept the plot moving at a pretty good pace. Plus there wasn't a whole lot cut out of that miniseries. I think it's about as good as we are going to get.", "This movie was so boring I almost fell asleep twice. The original was more fun. It looks nice but was severely lacking. His Blade Runner was so good. I don't know what happened here.", "You're describing hidden exposition in the new film. The problem is voice over exposition in the Lynch film. Its lazy and transparent.", "Omg saw it last night in ultra avx at the theater. AMAZING.", "yes its indeed very sad that since this movie was made all dune books were destroyed and forever lost to time. its a good movie why are you butthurt?", ">But again, what would that look like?\n\nI don't know what that would look like, but I do know it wouldn't look ancient by today's standards, because by definition, that's not futuristic, that's ancient.\n\n>We went from space ships with perfect, white, sterile walls to a more grungy industrial look in more recent times\n\nA good example of this would be some ships in the Expanse series. They're more industrial because they've become like cars, it's not a spaceship designed by one company to take you from Earth to a space station, it's YOUR ship that you are responsible for repairing. Thus, it's accessible and modifiable.\n\nOne thing is certain though, it isn't designed to look ancient. \n\n\nI don't know if my point is coming across or not, because you keep asking what would futuristic look like. It really doesn't matter, it's not a specific look, it doesn't need to be sterile white or made of a specific material, it doesn't need to be rounded or glowing or whatever; it just needs to make sense that we advanced 10K years and this is what's popular now. \n\n\nLike most artist renditions out there, I would expect Arrakeen to be built from materials found on Arrakis, I would expect sand and rock to be the principal construction material. Does it make sense that giant stone slabs were moved to Arrakis from other planets to achieve an \"ancient\" feel? \n\nWhen something looks like it was taken right out of Westeros, probably missed the futuristic mark. \n\n\n>As for the Gom Jabbar: I could take it or leave it.\n\nI mean, sure, that's exactly how I'm viewing it. I'm not upset about it, it was beautiful, the movie was excellent. But I don't think \"ancient\" makes the best sense as far as art direction.", "Well none of that is really explained in the movie so ya I can see that being a source of confusion for lots. It was for me lol", "> TIL how his name is pronounced.\n\nHow hard can it be? You just read the letters that make up his name. Dennis... FUCK.", "The scene in David Lynchs 1984 adaptation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG5yKNTvVg8\n\nThe scene from Frank Herbert's Dune miniseries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKQMWZHiQVQ\n\nThe storyboards of the scene in Jodorowsky's planned adaptation: https://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune-uncovered/11", "The movie is so good... I can't wait to go see it again.", "Totally fair. The point I would make then is that we aren't seeing normal people (except for the Fremen), we're only seeing what the absolute top of the top of the upper crust surround themselves with. And in that case, I think a call back to ancestral traditions and styles isn't that far fetched. It's been a little while since I read the books, but I remember thinking that the descriptions were very... Anachronistic, which goes along with the society itself (space feudalism!).", "> there would be no reason whatsoever for Gurney to say, \"The slow blade penetrates the shield\". Paul would obviously already know that.\n\nGoddamn, that was such cringe. Gurney could have at least made Paul say it, as a test while they were sparring. Pepper him with simple questions while attacking to throw him off his guard. SOMETHING other than \"let me tell you something obvious so the audience gets it\"", "Yeah, they seriously needed some more mentat exposition.", "The background is that \"thinking computers\" are forbidden because of a \"rise of the machines\" war in the distant past, so computations are done by living computers (semi-autists) called Mentats.", "Yeah that would be so amazing🤩", "Let's just hope his name isn't a sonic power-word.", "> Foundation was such a disappointment\n\nMirroring my feelings when I finally got around to reading the books.", "Yeah, your just getting it all wrong. You are just repeating a movie cliche' that everyone says. There is absolutely nothing lazy about the original Dune movie. It's entirely the opposite, they tried to get too many things in.\n\nThat whole narration is lazy cliche is lame by the way. Do you think Shawshank Redemption sucks because it's constantly narrated? You are probably alone there. It can be lazy and transparent. That doesn't mean that it always is.", "True, but thank god this is the only kind of thing we have to complain about. Great movie. I need a 4 hour long directors cut!", "No that was the FIRST TIME heyooo!", "It's almost De-nee Vill-Nuv.", "the first couple of episodes of Foundation were okay and then it just tanked. Horribly disappointing", "I plan on reading up until Brian takes over. Already one of my absolute favorite books/series.", "I'm jealous. The one true IMAX theater here in MN closed down.", "> this is the only kind of thing we have to complain about.\n\nA friend of mine who was insulated from the rest of the story (hadn't read or seen anything going in) was confused about what makes the harkonnens bad guys. They weren't depicted as doing much other than political double-crosses and executing some prisoners. I think we could have used some of the harkonnen daily life atrocities, like selling used moist towelettes to the beggars, just to hammer home how repugnant they were.", "She can use the voice so well that she could teach it to Paul. Seems pretty good to me. I think she was less emotional in the Lynch movie, and I much preferred that. The new Jessica is even more emotional than a normal woman in the situation would be imo", "> I love that the director is so clearly a big fan of the books.\n\nDavid Lynch just winced a bit.", "Sting, shirtless and struttin' around in a man-diaper. Or Patrick Stewart with a ponytail", "I highly recommend continuing on the series. In my opinion they just get better and better, my favourite probably being the 4th.", "I couldn't imagine the source material in more competent hands.\n\nAs a huge fan of his films and the books written by Frank Herbert, I cannot wait to watch this film.", ">If a remake of Harry Potter comes out 10 years from now, are you going to be mad about any Snape kills Dumbledore comments?!\n\nThere would be 20 year olds who were born after the last Harry Potter movie, and 30 year olds who were born after the movie series started. A whole generation of people who didn't grow up with the series, and so may not even be aware it was a thing.\n\nSo yes, if there were a discussion thread about the first movie in the Harry Potter remake I would expect people to be using spoiler tags for anything not contained in that movie.\n\nAre you forgetting that this discussion chain exists because someone had Dune spoiled for them, and complained about it? Common decency, man. You're going to great lengths to justify wanting to spoil the series to people when you could very easily use the spoiler tag, or discuss it in a place where book readers are discussing it, like the Dune subreddit.", "Hmm, I have never read any of the books but I felt like they did a good job with the worldbuilding and didn't feel like I didn't understand anything.", "I just don't understand how they think they can get away with episodes entirely bloated with characters you have no interest in having conversations the entire way through. When an episode can be reduced down to 5 minutes of actual interesting events and interactions it really makes you want to fast forward or turn off.", "Yeah I've watched that like 4 or 5 times. One of my all time favorites, and a rare example of another director doing a sequel that's just an ass kicker.", ">butthurt\n\nSorry, what? Not a native speaker.\n\nIt's always sad to see something close to greatness but not quite there. Especially with something as special as this.", "Absolutely agree on Jessica. Se appears weak, which was never the impression of her from the books.", "https://i.imgur.com/FvX62DB.gif", "Maybe down the road, there will be a director's cut?", "The 80's Paul was too old, and the new one is too young (imo). The Syfy Paul was believable in his innocence AND later wisdom.", "I'm glad someone agrees with me. I get that they wanted to show she has inner doubts, but at no point in the movie did I get the impression she was confident or composed.", "Absolutely. I'm working from home and rewatching it at the moment. I am absolutely loving all of it other than Jessica. It's not that the acting is bad, it's just such a far way off from how composed I'd expect a Bene Gesserit to be.", "That’s what it sounded like. Thank you!", "I don't blame the actress at all. It has to be a disagreement with Villeneuve's interpretation of the character.", "It's absolutely the direction from Villeneuve. I can't hold it against him though, he's done brilliantly with the rest and source material is not easy to adapt.", "I feel the same way, every other character is perfect, one slip up isn't the biggest deal. I'm open to the possibility that my interpretation of her in the book is less accurate that the Villeneuve's, but I like my idea of her better.", "Duh-Nee Vil-nuhv\n\nSource: French speaker from Quebec", "thats because youre blind", "I've seen it now in my living room (very good setup), and IMAX.\n\nI can say without exaggeration that it was almost like 2 different movies. The audio design is unlike anything I've ever heard. Everything just sounds so.... ancient. Powerful. Terrifying.\n\nFrom the sounds of \"the voice\", to the worm vibrating sand, to the sound the shields make. All of these are just different in IMAX. It really was a unique experience, and I HIGHLY suggest checking it out.", "Same setup here, and I 100% agree!\n\nGO SEE IT IN IMAX!", "Some of those wide shots with walls of sand being sprayed up into the sky filling the whole screen... incredible.", "I think his approach was to immerse the viewer in a very foreign feeling place. As this video demonstrates, he wanted to show more than tell. I personally found it very effective. I do think it helps to understand some of the backstory I'm reading in the thread though.", "why isnt this marked spoilers?", "Hehe i did exactly the same, I read until right before the end of the movie, which was a really fun experience. I was worried my lil brother who was with me didn't know anything about the books be he also really enjoyed it.", "Fucking jumped at that, the only jump I did the whole movie", "Dune is all about world building, which so much of that is hard to convey within a film. Honestly, I wish this went the Tv series route instead.", "That scene did have a purpose. It shows the very considerable influence of the Navigator guild, re enforcing visually why the spice matters (instead of just talking about galactic macro economics), and that the Emperor is powerful but has to play the game, that he's in a bit of a jam, that this Paul dude and his Jihadi's need to be put down. I always liked that scene.", "It's also a main connection to the Foundation series and Psychohistory. Sci fi usually had space ships and ray guns, and that represented the 'future of science.' Asimov imagined what heights the soft sciences might achieve as well, combining futuristic advancements in economics, sociology and psychology. The Mentats and Bene Gesserit are inspired by this, kind of like the Steve Rogers/Captain America of big brain thinking, pushing the limits of a human minds capabilities.", "TV series sounds like it could have been amazing. There were a lot of good mini stories throughout the movie but it didn't feel like there was an overarching plot.", "\"To crash this Ornithopter... with no survivors!\"", "\"So you came back to die with your Planet?", "I thought the Gom Jabbar scene was trash in the new one compared to the original. The original you're watching like fffff that looks nasty as hell, it's tense and exciting. The new one he's just like 'oh dear' the whole time and it doesn't even seem to reach a crescendo, she's just like 'alright guess that's enough'.", "Weird, I felt the same way about the remake. This scene I thought was particularly terrible, no tension at all, I didn't feel really very invested in the fact he was perhaps going to die.\n\nThe original lynch film however I was on the edge of my seat, even rewatching it last week, and it crescendos into him yelling \"The pain!\" and her shouting No! Enough! and it's so much better. The remake was just abstract pictures of fire and him looking like he is in slight discomfort, and it ends with her being like 'k well guess that's enough of the itchy box'. I left it thinking shit I could do that it looks trivial. Whereas the lynch film I'd be like fucking hell I'm not putting my hand in that box!", "As soon as I heard him say it was Hans Zimmer, I said \"oh great, so just BWAAAAAAH for 3 hours\"" ]	675	videos	'Dune' Director Denis Villeneuve Breaks Down the Gom Jabbar Scene
https://youtu.be/65uuGA2xGwg	/r/videos/comments/qezk84/uhuru_march_for_reparations_by_andrew_callaghan/	[ "lmaoooooooooo", "Redditors.\n\nSidam did good. I'm excited to see the Channel 5 Cinematic Universe expanding.", "The first thread got deleted, reddit big mad.", "Really just shows that they are not much different from their conservative counterparts. At least when it comes to the cringe.", "I mean, the conservatives in his videos are usually spewing hatred and just totally divorced from reality. At least even the cringey people in this video have their hearts in the right place.", "These people are just as dumb and far from reality. Just not hateful.", "Have their hearts in the right place.\n\n> Give us reparations or we're going to take them." ]	7	videos	Uhuru March for Reparations by Andrew Callaghan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McggLIYmnE	/r/videos/comments/qezk8t/the_onion_has_halloween_become_overcommercialized/	[ "Classic", "Fewer and fewer Americans believe in the one true soul-destroying Eve.\n\nSad...", "Lilith, the fallen woman. Woe betide those who speak her name. However it is fine to type it, but not with speech-to-text guys seriously.", "If Google was a guy being sucked into hell….ok", "I want to bang her", "its turned into an adult holiday", "Such commitment to the bit from the actors. Love it.", "I miss this channel.", "She was cute on Lucifer.", "I miss this show. I love the baby skull episode.", "Hard to keep up with reality I suppose.", "I wish people had appreciated these videos before they had to stop making them then got bought out by a big corporation. \n\nLoved all this stuff when it was coming out and its bittersweet to see everyone loving them now when its too late", "Everyone always laments that The Onion stopped making videos, myself included, but I suppose they probably would have ended up like other channels and had to shut down or gut themselves.", "They really are some like real life Fox News this s*** is insane sometimes", "I think it was pretty popular back then, but expensive to make and just not sustainable without getting a cable deal. These are like 10 years old have have paid actors, high quality graphics, and a lot of writing.", "IIRC some of these had pretty surprisingly low view counts before the last couple years.\n\nThis one is still under 900,000 and AFIC it's a masterpiece.", "They just couldn’t afford them because they kept tossing their money in the money hole", "I can't argue with that", "not for everyone, okay?", "I think the bigger problem is when they turned a lot of their articles into video or audio and then removed the original article from the site. I'll frequently try to pull something up and it's been shoved down the memory hole.", "I keep forgetting that Brian Huskey was in a bunch of these. He always did a great job.", "you can curse on the internet now fyi", "\"Think about our WELLS!!\"", "/r/notnottheonion", "Were they always on YouTube? I thought that was a later thing and they were originally hosted on their website itself.", "Two classic Onion videos:\n\nAutistic Reporter\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04wb7P_v-4\n\nPolitical Talk Show Host Suddenly Very Interested In Manslaughter Law Loopholes\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVQPtuKRs4", "I remember mostly watching these videos on the Onion's website, not on Youtube. So all those views on theonion.com wouldn't show up in the Youtube view count.", "Wut...You think the ghouls and spirit realm beings can't see what's said on the internet?!?\n\nThey are the ones' that created this place!!!", "This video was posted in 2008 to Youtube.", "Duh. It’s not Halloween (on one day) anymore but “Spooktober”.", "I love the money fires!", "low-key hot on Cheers too.\n\nperhaps a touch too evil though", "I'm aware but I remember originally watching them on The Onion's website, and the website/magazine is a lot older than that. Back then a lot of places hosted their own videos instead of just uploading to YouTube, even if they eventually started doing that as well.", "His ma will get super mad if he’s cussing on the interwebs", "Pretty milfy on Netflix's Sabrina.", "Todays The Onion would be \"Breaking News: Today, is actually a pretty good day. That's right ladies and gentlemen, you can officially relax for today.\"", "In 2008 it was still the norm to watch videos on individual websites, Youtube hadn't totally taken over yet. If you wanted to watch funny videos, many people would just go directly to Cracked, Ebaum's World, The Onion, etc., and watch the video on that site's own web player, without involving YouTube at all. The internet was far less centralized.", "I just wish Clifford Baines would come in for one final show and every panelist just loses their shit.", "Forgot about this; so good.", "A little too gargantuan and menacing in Evangelion", "We've noticed here in Ireland that Halloween is becoming more Americanised, used to be a one night thing but now you see decorations up on people's house a couple of weeks before hand. Only started in the last few years.", "It was the youtube player embeded on their website, no?", "thicc", "The war on Halloween.", "[My favourite](https://youtu.be/6y6db6lUaBg)", "I don't know about you all but I'm going outside, getting down on my knees, and praying to the giant head that literally controls the fucking weather!", "[Here is mine, as a combat vet this hit so right](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTkgi7scKo)", "[My all time fav.](https://youtu.be/XUT8ec24anM) The acting is on point.", "I don't think it was because they would sometimes do things that wouldn't really work with a YouTube embed. Like the \"everyone knows you're high\" video had several variations and would be slightly different each time you watched it to make you question your sanity. I suppose they could have uploaded all the variations, hidden them on YouTube, and had the webpage load a different embed each time, but I'm pretty sure the ui wasn't the YouTube ui either.", "she just wants all the candy for herself", "Ok thanks. Never seen those everyone knows you're high video, I'll look it up.", "Sure but there's been 13 years of that not being the case", "Expensive? They can pay some high school nerd $100 to use After Effects.", "I used to watch it as a Video Podcast on my iPod", "she gives off strong mommy-dom vibes which is cool.", "The money just kind of dried up over the last decade. Funny or Die and Collegehumor are also just shadows of their former selves. You can blame Facebook and the like for making their platforms more insular. They redesigned their platforms so we would spend more time there and not follow external links. And Facebook lied to companies that made original content like this about the view counts their content was getting on Facebook, way overstating it, so those companies pivoted away from hosting on their own websites and put all their stuff on Facebook where they couldn’t make any ad revenue.\n\nAnd now that everyone with a phone is sharing their own content for free on Facebook and Twitter and TikTok, no one gets paid except those platforms that host the content. And maybe influencers if they can score the right brand deals.\n\nJust one more example of wealth that used to be spread out being concentrated in a handful of corporations. It’s been really depressing to watch.\n\nEdit: Here’s a thread from Adam Conover on this subject: https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1183209875859333120?s=21", "Meh. Good writing can only last so long. If you watch the later stuff (post-2012) there were still plenty of gold but it's not on 2008-10 level anymore, not even the articles. Even with all the money in the world it'd still be unrealistic to expect them to last and deliver the same level of quality to this day.", "Cracked has slowly become more active on Youtube after being more or less dead for three or four years.", "A lot of these Onion News Now videos were created for an Onion TV show that was aired on the Independent Film Channel in 2011.", "I haven't seen this in many years, but I never forgot \"Everyone get out your amulets!!!!\"", "I've heard the downfall was when fb started allowing people to upload videos to their platform, which cut off the revenue stream to creators like The Onion and Cracked.", "And lied about how many people were watching the videos. It decimated a lot of online producers. \n\nhttps://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit", "I like the lead in for the next story....\n\nStudy finds 42% of Americans unable to locate earth on globe", "This one, and the other \"in the know\" [where they talked about poverty] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05RZJxDIhTU) and [where they talked about trashy reality shows] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3gWZk4AEo) were the best ones for me, because then what they are talking about ends up really happening to one of the co-hosts.", "CollegeHumor at least pivoted to having their own streaming platform, Dropout. Streaming fragmentation sucks for a variety of reasons as consumers, but makes some sense for content producers with a little recognition, especially if they don't have many alternatives beyond making a pittance on YT. No idea how well it's working out for them or Linus Tech Tips' Floatplane though.", "Get out your amulets!", "[From the abyss, we seek her salvation.](https://youtu.be/0SSYzl9fXOQ?t=10)\n\nEdit: It's about Lilith.", "Heh brilliant", "I thought the same thing", " No one ever mentions the most over commercialized part of our world: COMMERCIALS!", "If you want it to look like shit", "You’re welcome.", "What's AFIC mean?", "The Onion just couldn't compete with reality.", "Lol I hadn't seen the skanks one", "Oh shut the fuck up wannabe onion hipster", "Who cares, people enjoy Halloween.", "This is the best one I've seen, mocking the ridiculous news arguments, with a touch of \"Cabin in the Woods\" at the end.", "You ruin it by saying the onion...", "The writing and editing is obviously great, but all these relatively unknown actors kill it.", "The poll result at the end.", "Lol no waaaaaay", "My favorite: [DNA Evidence Frees Black Man Convicted Of Bear Attack](https://youtu.be/u1cgHEWG-BA)", "Both of our usernames check out!\n\n\nThat is good satire.... both are so on point; the Onion was so good!", "\"Make sure cashier is dead.\"", "Afic?", "I gotta say, if every Fox news segment about \"taking the CHRIST out of Christmas\" ended with Jesus showing up and blessing the presenters, I'd take them a lot more seriously.", "When I was your age we wore the onion on our belt", "which was the style at the time", "> Like the \"everyone knows you're high\" video had several variations and would be slightly different each time you watched it to make you question your sanity\n\nHoly fuck that's cruel lol. God damn I hope they get a chance to regularly create more pieces like these. They have some real comedic geniuses on their team, while not every video is a masterpiece, some are fucking amazing.", "Honestly, I always wondered why this didn't happen more. It wouldn't be hard to control the amount of displayed \"views\", so long as you controlled the program/source and didn't show it to anyone except employees. Keeping them quiet is another story.\n\nI just figured there'd be more companies willing to risk having the server/program fudge numbers for stuff like that. Obviously only works if the website is controlled by you and such, and you risk being discovered. That being said, many businesses seem capable of risking a lot more illegally in some cases, with this being relatively safer than say, fudging tax stuff or something.", "> And now that everyone with a phone is sharing their own content for free on Facebook and Twitter and TikTok, no one gets paid except those platforms that host the content. And maybe influencers if they can score the right brand deals.\n\nThat's the rough part. Honestly, I think eventually news media will start to go this way as well. I'm sure they're already not doing as well as they used to before the internet, not 100% though. All in all, when I can open reddit, or another site and see a curated collection of recent news, tagged and such, it's so much more convenient. Not to mention the comments, where additional information or knowledge in the issue/subject in general can sometimes be found. Plenty of people to call out bullshit if they smell it (although doesn't always mean they're right), or verify sometimes.\n\nAll in all, social media's ability to connect so many people, along with the curation of whatever media someone might enjoy, is probably having and will continue to have a pretty big impact on a lot of industries. News media simply cannot keep up. On reddit, there's millions of people on here daily, all who can submit posts, comments, and provide their own additional content (which can come with its own problems, but moderators tend to keep things pretty decent and on topic). No matter how large the company, no news company/channel can keep up with that many individuals. \n\nIn general, social media posts and such are shared much faster than news media on random events. Not to mention the quality of some individual youtube channels and such matching or exceeding quality of many actual companies (like channel 5, their content is always more interesting and much less judgmental/opinionated than \"actual\" news).\n\nI don't know, the level of connectivity between random motivated and skilled/educated individuals who submit content on social media just can't be matched by any individual company. I obviously don't know for sure, but I'd say social media will continue having an impact on many specific industries due to it's previously mentioned ability to connect people.", "I had never seen the Autistic reporter. Holy hell that was hilarious!", "Certainly doesn't happen on Instagram likes...too bad...", "When I was their age I got the Onion on paper out of a sketchy box on the side of the street!", "OG The Onion was top tier" ]	97	videos	The Onion: Has Halloween Become Overcommercialized?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Izy1trNv1k	/r/videos/comments/qezs2z/illegal_rave_in_1989/	[ "As someone who graduated high school in 1986, there's no way that's 1989. More like 1999.", "CHOON!!!", "A loud warning would've been nice. Mwap", "I wasn't at raves until 1997 and the DJ worship wasn't there then either. When I look at tomorrowland it's all about the DJ and a visual show. That's not what the music is about. Dance and enjoy yourself without staring at the stage", "Keegan Michael Key at 1:56", "My friends and I like to start the “revolution” at DJ shows which basically means turning around and dancing facing everyone. It’s pretty fun but definitely throws some people off!", "Comments on YT say otherwise", "Nerd alert! Left side at 20 to 25 seconds. \"Dude, what are we supposed to do?\"", "Second summer of love in the UK kicked off in 1988 and Your Love (song playing) was released in '87, so I don't see why it couldn't be.", "Says the guy at his computer.", "I miss the 80s", "Why would this be considered an illegal event in 1989 UK?", "Can't speak to '89 UK law but most massive dance parties I've been to like this are unsanctioned and uninsured.", "The scene in this video is still common but I take your point. With more obscure DJs/events there is little to no stage setup and therefore not much to look at and vise versa with a massive event like you mentioned." ]	13	videos	Illegal Rave in 1989
https://youtu.be/yhYU4ZbLmmk	/r/videos/comments/qf04dn/why_should_you_read_dune_by_frank_herbert_dan/	[ "TL:DR: Games of Thrones in space, but instead of FTL, They have magic spice to do it... Oh and it gives you magic powers to see the past and future.", "and dreamy blue eyes.", "Not wrong. \n\nOh, and the magic spice is basically shat out by giant sandworms.", "Herbert built worlds like Tolkein built languages.", ".. if you're 14.", "It was a good book.\n\nI have yet to find an adaption of a book into a movie where the book wasn’t better.", "Sadly, Herbert didn't build Worlds line Tolkien..." ]	7	videos	Why should you read “Dune” by Frank Herbert? - Dan Kwartler
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qf0c4h/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qf0c4h/deleted_by_user/	[ "Are you pulling my balls?", "Cool hearing a [Doves song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ct3Ia7HwPc) in a M&W clip", "I watch a lot of Gordon Ramsay, a lot of M and W and I've worked in fine dining restaurants for 20 years. Gordon can be harsh, but people who own/ cook in restaurants can be the most pompous, delusional people ever. He has make them humble themselves a little to see the error of their ways. There really aren't too many qualifications to be a \"chef\" and sometimes just because someone can make a good meal at home doesn't mean they know how to cook at a restaurant.", "I read a lot of reddit comments, a lot of AITA and TIFU and i've posted on subreddits for 5 years. This video might be satirical, but redditors can be the most pedantic, overanalyzing people ever. Videos like this have to magnify the flaws a little to show the error of their ways. There really aren't any qualifications to be a \"redditor\" and sometimes just because you have a point at home doesn't mean you should leave a paragraph of text criticizing a satirical skit.\n\n^^Please ^^don't ^^take ^^this ^^too ^^seriously, ^^i'm ^^just ^^having ^^fun", "I am vaguely aware of Gordon Ramsey and have eaten food in the past. I think he was on the telly once, but I didn't catch it. I do like bread though, if that helps.", "Highly recommend Gordon ramsays teriyaki salmon. Simple marinade that is delicious with some white rice. 3 Tablespoons soy sauce, 1 tablespoon mirin or rice wine vinegar, 2 tablespoons good quality maple syrup, two thinly sliced garlic cloves, and 3 cm thinly sliced fresh root ginger. Let that marinade over night. Seperate the liquids from the salmon. Hot pan and olive oil on medium heat. Cook the salmon 2 minutes on one side (it should sizzle) then pour the reserved marinade over the fish and flip the fish when its opaque about halfway up the fish. Then just cook for another 2-3 minutes. If the sauce gets too thick or starts burning a bit (sauce should blacken) add a dash of water. Always check the temperature with a thermometer before serving, it should be above 145 F.", "I'm personally not a fan of bread and therefore am opposed to any future opinions you express in this comments section, particularly about Mr. Ramsay.", "That seems perfectly reasonable. I shall refrain from expressing any opinions whatsoever, not least about Mr. Ramsay, about whom I know very little, including apparently how to spell his name.", "That's nice of you to type up.\n\nI don't eat fish, but thank you.\n\nAny recipes for bread?", "Yeah, I highly recommend [tangzhong milk bread](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc3coiL36Cg). You can definitely still make it without a stand mixer but I don't think it turns out as spongy as the video shows. It's my go to bread to make though and I think it is amazing with some nutella right out of the oven. I also highly recommend you make [challah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQdgxs-bC4). Nothing beats the delicious smell and taste of fresh challah.\n\nPro tip, if you don't have a proofing oven like most people then I recommend boiling water and then pouring the boiling water into a container with the dough in the oven (like, container with hot water bottom rack, bowl with fermenting dough on the top rack, dont mix the boiling water with dough.) You want bread to proof in a warm climate, ideally around 85 degrees so the steam really helps the fermentation process.", "The main lesson from Kitchen Nightmares is that anycunt can cook and cook well enough for a kitchen - it's literally just paint by numbers for the most part, assuming you're not developing a recipe.\n\nBut running a kitchen is being a manager, it's being a quartermaster, it's being a bursar, it's being a leader. That's an incredibly rare talent, and kitchen's are awful work environments unless you love being burnt and smelly. The cooking is almost the least important bit.", "\"Theres loads of things in there you didn't even mention, the thing with the potatoes that might as well be magic\" -Every Cooking Show", "Bread is good.", "This clip has been staring at me in my youtube recommendations for months, and I refuse to click on it, even though I would probably enjoy it.", "agreed hes an over paid douche. just just food. it just gets turned into poo at the end of the day", "Funnily enough, a lot of people actually like food.", "fat people love it to death, literally." ]	17	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/VDWa8fZ4p1E	/r/videos/comments/qf0e1z/an_ad_by_cadbury_india_with_shahrukh_khan_that/	[ "Lmao Shahrukh literally fine selling his likeness to promote anything?", "Pretty sure this was done with specific categories of companies (still need to fit within a time window) and the story line. I’m betting there were lists presented to his managers and lawyers so he would not be representing something “bad” of he would be defamed.", "I'm Shahrukh Khan and this my favorite store on the Citadel" ]	2	videos	An ad by Cadbury India with Shahrukh Khan that uses Machine Learning to alter his voice and lips to promote hundreds of small businesses across India.
https://youtu.be/9FTfNcpPF4M	/r/videos/comments/qf0n9d/golden_gate_bridge_screaming_and_howling/	[ "Sounds a lot like my mother in law.", "Seriously, is that normal then?", "Definitely a Lovecraftian monster nearby.", "Yup.\nI live at the north end of the bridge and it’s like that a lot.", "The bridge is hungry. Feed it another child.", "Can you only hear it while driving across it or can you hear it since you live close by the bridge?", "Live close enough to hear the screeching. It sounds ghostly.", "It’s like a large harmonica, if the wind blows a certain way the cables vibrate and the bridge makes a sound", "Yea. I believe they added a mesh to catch people who try to commit suicide by jumping off. The screech comes from the bridge swinging(it's a suspension bridge) and scraping on the mesh.", "If I’ve learned anything from the movies, it’s that the driver is about to tune into a global alien invasion broadcast on the radio, or they are slipping into a psychotic episode. Possibly both.", "Its due to the newer railings. The railings they added make it safer and less scary in the wind, the sound is from the wind rushing through it. More similar to blowing across a bottle than anything scratching together.", "This is the result of a [recent change ](https://www.kqed.org/news/11837051/the-story-behind-the-golden-gate-bridges-new-howl)to the railing on the Golden Gate Bridge. \n\nThe railing was made thinner to improve the wind resistance of the bridge but it’s essentially a massive harmonica in high winds.", "This sound reminds me of an eerie experience. I travelled to the far northern part of Norway and hired a fellow to take me somewhere the northern lights were visible. We drove out into the wilderness, apparently very close to where Norway, Sweden, and Finland all meet. Naturally everything was covered in thick snow and ice. There's a metal bridge out there across a river, much smaller than the Golden Gate of course, but still a suspension bridge. In the endless muffled white it stands out. As I walked closer to it I realized I could hear some sound coming from the bridge. It was a bizarre low pining, similar to what you hear in this video, just a bit less piercing. It affected me. Somehow I imagined the bridge to be lonely out there at the top of the world with naught but the wind and the aurora to keep it company.", "I wish they’d fix this. It’s annoying. I can hear it at home with my windows closed.", "This was beautiful and not something I expected to find in the comments of a post on r/videos", "Oh no thank you. Lol", "Looking at those lights all I could think of was the death ray in War of the worlds", "Hhmmmm, I bet the sales of noise reducing headphones is high in that vicinity", "hol up, that ain't no gale force wind... that's mutha fuckin Mothra", "https://twitter.com/shirin_jnk/status/1269143410268467200?s=21", "I bike the bridge all the time and find the new railing slightly terrifying", "I experienced this while driving up the California coast in June 2020. I was stopped in a park near the south side of the bridge when I first heard the noise coming over the wind. \n\nThe sound was mysterious, haunting, otherworldly. It wasn’t an especially windy day, so I don’t think the sound was as loud as it can get. I could hear car noise from the bridge, but because of the pitch of the tone, it cut through all the other noise. \n\nI had no idea what I was hearing, and at the time there was no information explaining it. I thought it could have been an accident, an art piece, or maybe some natural phenomena. All I could do was wonder and continue on my journey. \n\nIt was a really memorable experience for me, but I empathize with those who have to hear it all the time.", "Congratulations on the million dollar home.", "And here I thought they had a kid with one of those plastic 'recorders' practicing in the back seat", "...and that is how I ended up in Silent Hill.", "This looks like the perfect intro to a scifi flick.", "Cthulhu.", "Used to live there. Biking that bridge is frightening. Did it almost daily and the gusts around the towers were wild.", "Yeah the gusts around the towers combined with tight, blind corners and oncoming traffic. I don't think you could engineer that experience if it was what you were going for lol.", "that's the collective voices of all the people who killed themselves by jumping off the bridge screaming for help from the depths of the ocean" ]	31	videos	Golden Gate Bridge Screaming and Howling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uuGA2xGwg	/r/videos/comments/qf0nfm/uhuru_march_for_reparations/	[ "This is the new channel from Andrew Callaghan of All Gas No Brakes, of which the latter has ceased production due to a contract dispute.", "Channel 5 is the future of journalism. Brilliant how many points they hit in 15 minutes.", "I was wondering why he made the switch", "I love this guy but damn, him asking them for money was 10/10 cringe (in a good way). Will have to come back later tonight to finish the rest of the video lol", "White people collecting money from other white people in Oakland, to build a basketball court in St. Louis Missouri... This sounds like an Onion article.", "lol", "Maybe the funniest moment for me was when Sidam says \"chocolate city, as some people say\" and Andrew fades in from the black in the same outfit and says \"is that what they say?\" and nods and fades back into the black.", "Of all the Channel 5 videos that get posted here and stay up, this one was deemed too political? lol", "Ah woke white, there is nobody who is more asleep it seems", "Ah of course I should have guessed, thanks", "Well the whole business is performative, not effective and careful. That old black guy was the most thoughtful person in the whole video it felt like.", "I'm a liberal and support a lot of protests that have gone on in the past couple of years, with that said this is a disgrace and they should be embarrassed.\n\nIt honestly seems like a stunt to advertise the furniture store.", "Those two ladies who refused to give him $5 were also bang on with their explanation of why.\n\nToo bad she had to throw in \"if I had $5 on me I would give it to you\" at the end there lmao", "> performative, not effective and careful\n\nIsn't that a bit of a false dichotomy? The first is about their intentions, the second about the execution.\n\nI don't think most of them have nefarious, selfish intentions, but they appear woefully naïve.", "This may be my new favorite video by them. Certainly on Channel 5, but maybe even comparing it to All Gas No Brakes. It obviously does the usual thing they do well, which is letting the event itself explain the absurdity/hilarity. But involving new talent and actually addressing some additional things in the studio really shows off how absurd the whole premise is.\n\nAnd at the same time, there were people in the video that were a part of the movement or watching the movement that made some really good and smart points. Or at least posed some good food for thought.\n\nReally hoping to see more episodes like this from Channel 5.", "Definitely finish it. There's a golden interview later at the end where that comes back up", "IMO if anyone's shouting a slogan on their shirt, their obvious priority there is to advertise and sell merch.", "Any mod here want to comment why the original thread was removed four hours ago and this remains?", "Can I get $5?", "A more useless, clueless collection of people could not be found.", "It is possible to be both, but in my experience the woke movement has been one and not the other. Everyone has the impulse to make the world a better place (although different definitions mean different behaviors) to a certain extent. But if it's more important to think of yourself as and be seen as a virtuous person, performing virtue becomes a narcissistic pursuit. It becomes about the action you're doing and the fact that it's you doing it, not about the effect.", "A lot of misguided racists in this video.", "Pretty stupid that examples like that is what society decayed to.", "I mean, they were bang on for the modern socialist view. “Oh no I won’t pay you, other people should pay you, and me too!”", "It's 2021 everything is a dog whistle it seems.", "Isn't it a fair point that $5 from a working class person does not equal reparations from billionaires in the form of tax increases?", "I feel like this guy is being a dick honestly. He could enlighten them if he thought their intentions were misplaced. He is just mocking them.", "Fuck yeah. Channel 5 is the best media outlet to date.", "These are the worst type of woke white people. Funny how most of them are all transplants too.", "Uhuru?", "Felt the exact same way as well.", "You think you can change their beliefs? Yeah right.. there's no sense wasting breath on them and he knows that, they're dense.", "May I present the anti-vaxxers?", "Those type of people, activists, are almost always racist.", "Intentions are utterly meaningless in the real world, particularly because it is impossible ever to truly know what anyone else's intentions really are. But even if we could, it wouldn't matter if your intentions were good if the results of your actions are to spread misery and death.", "I'm afraid of the comments this video could bring. It's like an open season on racism. Are these people misguided? When it comes to what is being said, that this is for a basketball court in St. Louis, but at least they're actively doing something. You could see that most black people agreed overall with their premise, but you needed more black leadership involved. \n\nI think because Channel 5 is doing the interview, this should be viewed on the same level as his antivaxx interview. It's not even close. These people are not arguing in bad faith. They're arguing for a good cause that does not have all the right people involved. These who hate reparations on principle will say, \"I had nothing to do with slavery.\" Most of us didn't, but this country benefitted from free labor. That's just a fact. Of course, we see the fight over CRT (because the truth for some white people hurts). \n\nPeople are going to say, \"see all these 'woke' white people... aren't they idiots?\" I don't see the world being made worse by these people. These aren't right wing fascists. They need better leadership, but at least understand history and are trying to be a good ally. \n\nThe message here should be. Well, at least they're going beyond changing their avatar on Facebook. They could use some black leadership to help drive them, but their cause is just. At least no one was frothing at the mouth like the right wing rallies we've seen.\n\nedit: give me those glorious downvotes, I'll take in-effective woke over right-wing peddling any day of the week.", "She basically said \"those who benefit from your oppression should pay the reparations\".\n\nWhich is exactly correct.\n\nWhether she has benefitted from black oppression or not, and to what degree is impossible to say based on the information we have.", "From me, no! That's the job of someone else with lots of money!", "What a bunch of fucktards. They need to give my white ass reparations for my ancestors that lived in serfdom for centuries.", "What's the point in the context of what I'm replying to though?\n\nCalling it performative is meaningless too then, the only meaningful words here are effective and careful.", "Billionaires are so cool", "They're fucking idiots and I can't imagine them being a good ally because of how obnoxious they are.", "Sure, but I feel like it also is an easy way to handle not understanding doing something so selfishness.\n\nI'm not refuting that it happens, just that it's a rather easy label to stick on people as really in a lot of cases you can't really know either way. Many people just really naïve. Kind of Hanlon's razor.\n\nI feel it's more valuable trying to steer the honest people's efforts into something productive, rather than label them all negatively.", "At the same time, isn't it a fair point that Jeff Bezos or Kanye West made their money in the past 30 years and not as a result of slavery? They were not alive 200 years ago, I don't see why they specifically should pay for it. They should pay more taxes overall but that's a different story. \n\nI think the last man interviewed seemed to have a very reasonable stance.", "Fucking school dropouts on parade. These are the idiots who simply make me sad for humanity.", "This shit is so ignorantly racist, I would almost swear its satire.", "A moment for self reflection reddit.", "White girl who's currently gentrifying Oakland:\n\n\"LeT's GeNtRiFy AfRiCa!1!1!1!\"", "She's not wrong but I would give anyone a fiver if I can spare it.", "This word/phrase(bang) has a few different meanings.\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang> \n\n\n\nThis comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(\|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(\|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(\|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)", "Comparing a white billionaire Jeff Bezos, whose family helped him reach his status; to Kanye West, someone who came from an admittedly middle class or affluent family but became a self-made billionaire; is incredibly disingenuous. Please think through your comments before posting in the future.\n\nEDIT: LMAO-ing at your mindless downvotes.\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/how-jeff-bezos-got-his-parents-to-invest-in-amazon--turning-them-into.html", "Something tells me that to you, they're idiots for wanting reparations. Nothing to do with their effectiveness. \n\n\"What about MY white reoperations?!\" This is what you're thinking, right?", "I am 99% sure that the basketball court in St Louis is a cover story and will never even get started. I typed out a much longer comment before realizing how insane I sounded, but at 1:51 in the video for only like a second, there's a black guy who says \"Uhuru and I've seen Prince take it, alright\" and I instantly recognized that guy. His name is Gazi Kodzo and he's a grifter/cult leader for an organization called Black Hammer that is a bizarre rabbit hole to go down if you have the time. \n\nThey are most famous for a poorly thought out plan to start their own city in the Middle-of-Nowhere, Colorado called Hammer City that promises to have no coronavirus, no cops, no rent and no white people, accusing [Anne Frank of being a colonizer](https://twitter.com/bhmissouri/status/1353777302996455424?lang=en), and [dressing up as the joker to get mad at AntiFa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrhzSOkczyg). Here's what a [former member has to say about his behavior](https://twitter.com/bh_nyc/status/1421156932912656389)\n\nThe guy's a real piece of shit and it's more likely that he duped these well meaning white people to think that giving him money is the same as reparations", "It means VERY correct", "yo im afghan and im over here like wtf white and black people? yall good, cuz this shits crazier than kim kardashian", "I think they're idiots for wanting to give reparations and the way they're going about it as obnoxiously as possible to ensure their \"movement\" doesn't grow.", "They 100% are, in a weird way... Its all about black people not being able to talk or defend themselves without their help... they have no agency so we must do it FOR them! even if no one asked... They are condescending as fuck and its all about THEM.", "And there aren't any dog whistles in the other channel 5 videos threads posted here?", "wokefully naïve", ">start their own city in the Middle-of-Nowhere, Colorado called Hammer City\n\nI wonder if that was going to be neer No Name, Colorado.", "Literally half of Channel 5's videos weren't allowed up, I usually check for a reddit thread whenever I see they make a new video.", "More than just a contract dispute, he was 100 fucked over.", "> I'm afraid of the comments this video could bring. It's like an open season on racism.\n\n> \"What about MY white reoperations?!\" This is what you're thinking, right?\n\nOh look, it's the racist you warned about!", "They both made their money on their own without employees or help from other humans.\n\nThat's how it works. Right?", "Really? I feel like I see threads for most", "> They could use some black leadership to help drive them,\n\nThey're literally led by a black-led political party. It's in the video.\n\nRacism is judging or pre-judging people by race or ethnicity. Agree or disagree?", "I mean, they're misguided in many ways, but these reparations folks aren't doing actual harm. I could point to any right wing collection of people and they want to do actual harm to people or our government.", "\"Jeff Bezos got his parents to invest nearly $250,000 in Amazon in 1995 — they might be worth $30 billion today\"\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/how-jeff-bezos-got-his-parents-to-invest-in-amazon--turning-them-into.html", "It means \"spot on\" as in absolutely correct.", "Activists are almost always racist, eh? That's a new hot take. \n\nHumanity=so doomed it's funny.", "Just fyi forced reparations is word for word how Germany justified their treatment of europe after being made to pay them for WWI. Later it became the reason that led the Allies to decide NOT to force germany to pay reparations again after WWII. Forcing punishment on people who had nothing to do with the original crimes never leads to good places.", "It's kind of like saying \"bullseye\" or \"direct hit\", in the context of a statement it means it is exactly correct", "Can I get a 5 spot?", "It means to have sex on something.", "This better not be that god dang Loch Ness monster again", "Not a racist statement as they literally said it at another place in this post. \n\n> They need to give my white ass reparations for my ancestors that lived in serfdom for centuries", "That girl actually said racially based climate change. What could that possibly even mean? The climate is only getting hotter for minorities?", "> They're literally led by a black-led political party. It's in the video.\n\nNot very well represented, and the one girl had no idea where decisions were made.", ">She basically said \"those who benefit from your oppression should pay the reparations\".\n>\n>Which is exactly correct.\n>\n>Whether she has benefitted from black oppression or not, and to what degree is impossible to say based on the information we have.\n\nAnd who determines who benefited from slavery over a 6 generations later?", "If you could turn $250k into $30 billion, every American with a house would do it. You're missing a few pieces. \n\n> In 1994, Jeff held 60 meetings with family members, friends and prospective investors to get them to each invest around $50,000 apiece in Amazon and help him raise $1 million. Only 20 said yes, a group which included his parents.\n\n> The investment was far from a sure bet. Jeff was clear there was a 70 percent chance his parents wouldn’t see that money ever again.\n\nAnd that doesn't even include the thousands of employees that dedicated part of their lives to creating that wealth.", "It was about that time I got suspicious.", "Uhuru March for Reparations", "Without employees? Amazon has at least a couple employees i'm sure.", "Yeah I've checked almost every time they've posted a video, it turned into something I'd do out of curiosity each time honestly. Either you didn't realize how many videos they had posted or you've been seeing threads made after the release date that slipped through the cracks", "Holy shit I'm cracking up at the women at 3:50.\n\n\"Yeah we believe in reparations but not our money.\"\n\nWas a bit disappointed at the start when I saw it wasn't Andrew but this dude is great.", "They are all r/whitepeopletwitter mods", "\\>the thousands of employees that dedicated part of their lives to creating that wealth.\n\nYou mean the ones on food stamps and peeing in bottles because they don't get bathroom breaks?", "It's this weird phenomenon that's popped up this last decade. It seems like there's all these \"woke\" white people that love to head up and dictate how to act about social causes, especially ones like LBTQ and BLM instead of listening to what those communities need/ask for.\n\nIt seems everyone nowadays wants to shout with a megaphone but won't bother to listen to others.", "It's amazing how consistently people out themselves in these videos as intelligent or morons by just letting them talk.", "Tell me your organization has an FBI plant in it without telling me your organization has an FBI plant in it.", "This looks like it could be a r/politics meetup.", "Dude. For fuck's sake. Who the fuck would have the pull to do that? CLEARLY Jeff was privileged and had enormous advantages.", "Mods be moddin", "This video is amazing!!!... \n\n&#x200B;\n\nCan I have $5?", "Damn inflation so bad he needs five dollars instead of tree fiddy", "Don't get mislead, this is a very small minority. \n\nYou're not seeing videos online or in the news of the majority of people, because most of us are just living out our lives normally. Plenty of us have causes we support and believe in, and our reasons are thought out and well intentioned.\n\nWe watch these videos because they make us angry/outraged/stunned. You're not going to watch the video of Bob the accountant get his groceries and make his annual political donation.", "r/cringe", "> this country benefitted from free labor. That's just a fact. \n\nYes, no doubt, and black people benefit from it just as well by being in the country, just as any other people on US soil, so I don't follow your logic", "I'd expect much more screaming and crying at an r/politics event.", "I hate billionaires and think they're immoral. White or black, they should be taxed.\n\nWhat's are you trying to say, Kanye deserves his money more because he's black?", "Welcome to the white savior complex. It's a classic.", "I love this channel so much but this is the first one i vouldnt make it through. I had to close it after like 5 minutes. So cringy.", "Can you point to an advantage that Kanye had as opposed to Bezos? Because I sure as fuck can't think of any.", "This is a weak argument. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nFirst, there is a differentiation between an attempt to punish and an attempt to rectify. I roll my eyes are hard-left taxation ideas that are more about punishing the \"millionaires and billionaires\" than they are about raising revenue. I think we should raise taxes, and in a progressive way, but not because I'm mad at anyone; I just want more government services. I am for reparations, or something like it, not because I want to punish white people but because black people are clearly suffering the effects of slavery, Jim Crow, and informal racism. One look at ANY statistics remotely adjacent to this and you'll see the reality of black under-achievement. There are only two ultimate explanations: black people are crippled inherently, or black people were crippled by...something. That they have been hamstrung isn't up for serious debate. \n\nSecondly, there is a difference between a people and the nation. the US has debts it owes and debts owed to it. It's privileges' work the same way. I get a lot of benefits for holding American citizenship and an American passport. Many of these were established long before I was born, much less a tax-payer. That cuts both ways: I get benefits I had nothing to do with, and I also pay taxes to pay debts I wasn't around to incur. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI think we should pay reparations to help undo the damage that was done. The US, as an entity, is responsible for a great deal of that damage and should also be responsible to pay for it.", "They'll probably say they removed it for \"politics\", but if you spend any amount of time here you'll notice the mods are \\very\\ selective as to what they consider \"politics\" lol", "You think Bezos had a better chance of becoming a rapper?\n\nIts stupid to even use two individuals as examples of race to defend race policy.", "Because most white people weren't packed like sardines in ships against their will. Are we really going to have this argument? This is exactly why CRT is needed.", "I gotta say all gas no brakes is such a good name for what he was doing. Sucks about what happened", "That'd still be far too civilized.", "I've never been called more names than by a white person being offended on someone else's behalf tbh.", "So he should be taxed more, agreed.", "This is not race related at all you fucking idiot. I mean, you're a racist, but I'm giving you a chance to offer an advantage Kanye had with his family.", "First time watching a Channel 5 video?", "Be as it may, wouldn't that make a better case for how black people can thrive in life just as well if they put in the effort / talent? Where is this systemic racism and why didn't it hold Kanye and all the other rich black people back?\n\n[I'll leave it Lil Wayne to put it better than I ever could](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRI38cu7N-A)", "\"Yeah I fuck with molly\" lmao", "Ah, cool.", "[ Jump to 03:50 @ Uhuru March for Reparations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uuGA2xGwg&t=0h3m50s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan, Video Popularity: 98.76%, Video Length: [12:53])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uuGA2xGwg&t=0h3m45s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "I’m pretty liberal so I don’t understand this about myself. Why do these extreme liberals get under my skin more than your extreme Trumper nut job? In most cases they are harmless, but god I can’t stand ivory tower woke liberals.", "I loved the racial equity breakdown in the middle segment. It's very easy for pieces like this to get co-opted by radical right pundits (and it probably still will be clipped out of context on TPUSA tomorrow.) Yes, these liberals are delusional, but there are still legitimate concerns with gentrification of black neighborhoods.", "This was so weird to see. I live in Oakland and I LOVE the Uhuru furniture store. I literally have gotten every piece of furniture in my apartment from them. They have fantastic prices, great customer service, and they even bake their own pies. I never knew all of this other stuff was going on, so surreal. The folks I’ve met are real good people and are so damn polite.", "It's reddit dude, you'll be lucky if they don't ban you for asking.", "Tree fiddy", "These videos are great, but so hard to watch. I don't want to believe these are real people.", "Nobody from that time is alive today. Everyone alive today is benefiting from the current state of the country, black, white, whatever. So who owes and who deserves these reparations exactly?\n\nAnd don't start with \"sins of the father\" bullshit, I don't subscribe to that nonsense.\n\nCRT only brings about more racism and segregation, is that what you want?", "> Intentions are utterly meaningless in the real world\n\nThey're incredibly important in the world of law, which, if you didn't realize, directly informs the \"real world\", whatever that actually means.", "irrc its estimated that minorities will be disproportionate affected by climate change as they cant move as easily/live near water etc", "Foy anyone else curious\n\n- https://wikitia.com/wiki/Black_Hammer_Organization\n- https://blackhammer.org/hammercity/ (lol)", "> The climate is only getting hotter for minorities?\n\nThe areas that are set to be affected the soonest are, in fact, areas the are typically very poor, and very not white.\n\nMany parts of Africa's ecosystem are already on the verge of collapse, and the yearly famines and insect storms are getting significantly worse every year; and the first nations that are set to feel the effects of rising temperatures and sea levels are places like Bangladesh and Zanzibar.\n\nMy guess is she has no idea what it actually means, just from the way she was talking about it, but it is a very real thing. In the US in particular, minorities will likely be hit hardest by it, by virtue of being poorer overall economically and therefore less likely to be able to deal with the consequences (increased cost of living, moving, etc.).", "Most people just become activists for something that doesn't help people, and instead contribute to stereotypes.\n\nPerfect example is in this very video, raising money for a fuckin basketball court, for black people, in a \"largely black\" town.\n\nAnother good example is people advocating for colleges and university's to mark English marks differently and more lenient because BIPOC get lower scores on average, or don't speak \"as professional\" implying that black people can't speak English or be educated.\n\nShit like affirmative action too, in therory it's a good idea, I agree with helping black people get off their feet too, but giving them a job because they are black, that's what I feel is ironically racist, because it implys that they wouldn't get the job if they weren't black. \n\nI hope to see one day where black people have the same resources and education as white people (money and economic standing is a big factor!) and we are all together on the same playing field, with poor \"hoods\" gone.", "Reparations is about fixing a generational disadvantage that the African American people have. So why should White people receive it when, generally (but not absolutely), they have not faced slavery or other adversity?", "The white man's burden weighs heavy...", "Jesus Christ you're embarrassing. Because one rapper born to a PROFESSOR ended up becoming a Billionaire, that means everyone can? Just put on your hood already.", ">Hammer City\n\nIf that hypothetical city didn't plan on having a big clock in the town hall that at noon every day plays \"U can't touch this\" by MC Hammer, in particular right at the point of the song that says \"STOP! HAMMER TIME!\" then that cult leader isn't culting right.", "What concerns?", "Loch Ness monster doesn't even exist, just gimme $5 bro", "That's not the modern socialist view at all. We have crippling problems in this country: health care is more expensive for worse outcomes, workers are tied to their job out of desperation for insurance and low wages, and affordable housing has all but fallen off given that minimum wage won't cover rent in any city. These problems exist because the rich and powerful have slowly dismantled labor organization, and profited trillions off the exploitation of our workers.\n\nSo when you reduce modern socialism down to \"oh, not ME, THEY should pay it.\" that's a false equivalency. The rich should pay more in taxes because they're the ones benefitting from the broken system.", "You're literally the one that brought up race in a thread about reparations. \n\n> Comparing a white billionaire", "I made it 12 seconds in before I turned it off", "> reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit. reddit reddit reddit. reddit reddit reddit reddit reddit.", "I too paused it after the cringe bomb attack. But I took a couple minutes and started it again and it gets good after that", "How about instead of reparations from the rich, we increase taxes on a bracket where people's income is taxed proportionally more the higher it is, then that tax money is temporarily used on benefits for marginalized groups who currently have been lacking in those areas. We'll call it \"reparations with a lot more words that people can't strawman as easily\"", "I worry about the people that swallow such bad performative virtuism.", "> Building cities for all people of color to be free (no discrimination...)\n\n> No white people\n\nHuh. Alright then.", "Who gets the reparations? What would you suggest for the inclusion/exclusion parameters or demographics?", "If you’re a white person you shouldn’t be allowed to live in Africa?", "The legitimate ones, with gentrification of black communities", "same here haha, ending makes the vid", "No. You don’t jus get to call random people on the internet “racist” just because they disagree with you. You don’t want to continue logical conversation so you end it by crying “racism”", "Uhuru seems like a Nathan for you sketch.", "Because they're winning", "I didn't end it with \"racism.\" I asked you to give me an advantage that Kanye had. Evidently you can't provide that, which makes you a racist.", "Poor white Americans are poor because of their personal actions, but poor black Americans are poor because of other people's actions? \n\nYou think that \"generally\" applies to over 200 million individuals, using no qualifier other than their skin color?", "Buy me that good $5 reddit gold please, or are ya yellow?", "\"Shout out to cash app... \n \n\n... the best app for reparations.\"", "Well, it’s obvious you need CRT since you don’t understand the socio-economic hardships that came with being a slave. They couldn’t even establish a “black Wall Street” without it being burned to the ground. Many people are just learning this fact only recently. Jim Crow laws are much less than 100 years old. We have generations alive that were a part of them. There is plenty of racism still and looking at statistics show how many blacks are still part of a poor cycle that goes back to slave days.\n\nHave some black people climbed their way out of poverty? With extraordinary skills, hard work, and some luck. This is not taking away from them, but understanding how a country like our has continued to fight the battle that need to be to this day.\n\nI don’t care if reparations are given to individuals or communities, or black leaders that know where the money should go, but it IS due. I won’t say anyone who doesn’t know that is a racist, more of being stuck into their privilege. Maybe lacking the necessary empathy needed. A little ignorance thrown in.\n\nHell, we’re no strangers to slave labor. We’re still doing it today with undocumented workers, while complaining about immigration out of the sides of our mouths. Oh, but those vegetable and fruit prices! Need to keep them low.\n\nReparations should happened at the end of the Civil War, with the south supplying, but Lincoln want the country to heal, and on its way it forgot what was due.", "Lmao", "CRT is garbage. The 1619 project is garbage. NO.", "Yeah, but how do you determine that? You just say, \"All rich white people owe the blacks. They must have been the ones who benefitted back then\".\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThat's just ridiculous. Not going any further than that.", "I'm half black. My cousin is 1/4th black. Another 1/8th. How much $$$ do we get for our disadvantage? \n\n\nHonestly, any money amount would be insulting. Build a good social security net. Make it actually possible for people to build their dreams instead of supporting greater class separation and warfare.", "LOL I’m not the guy you were interacting with and you called me a “racist”! You just proved my point. I just pointed out that you don’t get to cry racism when somebody has a different opinion than you. What a joke.", "The devils are in the details, right?\n\nSome ideas:\n\nGive money to help generally black areas: poor heavily AA locales, their hospitals, their schools, etc.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI understand that this leaves me open to endless nitpicking. You may have no intention on doing so but to proactively defend myself, sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. If we institute a reparations program I would anticipate some level of inefficiency, waste, fraud, and abuse. That's true of anything big. I simply think it's likely the cost of not doing it is worse than the cost of doing it.\n\nI don't think it's tenable to tell 13% of Americans \"Yeah, sorry about all that racism stuff...and while we recognize that stuff is why you have so much less and will perpetually be behind your white peers, fixing it would be too much of a hassle.\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIf not reparations, what should we do, if anything?", "Some movements fail WITHOUT FBI/CIA interference, you know.", "Can you not provide an advantage that Kanye had? Then yeah, you're a racist for questioning my comment.", "You can’t even define what CRT is, I bet. Or where is should be taught. Some talking heads have been discussing it, but you don’t actually know what it is. You’re just white and afraid, I imagine.", "LOL.", "It's a pretty straightforward comment. Minorities are being pushed out of their neighborhoods further and further in to the deep suburbs due to rising rent prices and the gentrification of their communities. For example, Mississippi avenue in Portland, OR was where most of the Black community lived. Now it has turned in to an overpriced neighborhood filled with boutiques and bars.", "See the 1619 project. That’s the path of CRT. It’s a load of bull crap.", "Look at the countries that are set to be SUPER fucked by climate change. Like Bangladesh. \n\n\nNow tell me how many white people live in Bangladesh. Not many!", "> all people of color\n\nYou realize that phrase already means no white people, right? There is absolutely zero contradiction here. At least as far as their message goes. I can't explain contradictions of the English language itself, and what defines color. But that phrase has a well established meaning at this point in time, and white isn't a color for these purposes.", "That’s what wealth redistribution and debt forgiveness is", "> They're incredibly important in the world of law\n\nNo. Legal intentionality and personal/ethical intentions are two different concepts and should not be conflated. It is the difference between doing something \"intentionally/unintentionally\" and having good vs. bad \"intentions\" -- these use the same word, but are completely different concepts. It would be better to use the term voluntariness rather than intentionality with regard to the legal concept, to avoid confusion.", "You win dumbest person on Reddit today. That’s a big a deal. You should be proud of yourself", "Pretty sure they were emphasizing the “no discrimination” and “no white people” parts.", ">(no discrimination...)", "Pretty sure being a racist is a requirement for you qanon turds, so... yeah. It is safe to assume you are a racist based on your post history accusing people of being demonic midgets.", "This is obviously not a real question. The arguments for/against reparations writ large are not settled on \"Well how much do I get, specifically?\" \n\nIt's clear when you say \"disadvantage\" you're being glib. But I've been pulled over by the cops - a lot. Back in my 20's I thought I was Mario Andretti. Black friends and acquaintances have told me story after story of their experiences with police. Nobody was hurt or anything but the treatment was just...different than my own experience. \n\nBeyond that, we have history and statistics. The statistics show the typical white family has 8x the wealth of the typical black family. That's pretty significant! Why did that happen? Do we have no interest in changing that? \n\nLastly, the argument doesn't rest solely on justice or liberal white guilt. The present and future is defined by the unlocking of human potential. The prosperity and success of the United States, and every country on Earth, will be defined by human capital - not raw muscle or plant, equipment, and land. Public schools are not about pitying children, they are about investing in them to make them better for their own selves and all of us as well. Right now there are beautiful works of art, scientific achievements, technical breakthroughs, business innovations, and novel philosophies that are locked away behind walls of ignorance and poverty. I want to narrow the gap between the achievements of my fellow Americans and their potential achievements by removing the blocks in their way. I selfishly want those achievements and to bask in their reflected glory. I may not get all of the rewards but I might get some of them. I don't own stock in Amazon, the creation of Jeff Bezos, but I enjoy getting packages in 3 days containing whatever I want. The next Amazon may not get made because the person destined to make it is stressed out about police violence, poverty, living in a high crime area, and their relative who can't afford healthcare. That, in a word, sucks.", "There is lots to be understood in booth. Not only with slavery, but when did America become America. Was it not until we had representation by black people into the union? Was there fairness in banking? Or did black people have to start their own black banks? The growth of the US was ugly. Why much has been resolved, it’s not hard to see where it separates again. There is still much ugliness that shows it’s head while some love to hide their heads in the sand.\n\nI’ve got more examples that I could go into, and I haven’t even touched our prison system. I’m trying to keep this small, but this something I know a lot about. So before we get into this, just know I can write paragraphs exposing white ignorance and love to do so.", "If you want to see their head pop, ask them if they can define the word insurrection without calling everything they don't like an insurrection.", "> Too bad she had to throw in \"if I had $5 on me I would give it to you\" at the end there lmao\n\nI mean, I would absolutely do that, context-free, if I had a five to spare and you actually urgently needed five dollars? ...that's not reparations, it's just, you know, being a decent human being.", "Pretty sure it was sarcasm.", "Wow, this dude sounds straight up like the guy who founded the Sybionese Liberation Army.", "Those two ladies were bonkers.", "It's not the \"modern socialist view\" -- that's just the \"standard new dealer view\" of people like Eisenhower. The \"modern socialist view\" is \"the people who work the mills should run them.\" Also, there's no \"non-modern\" socialist view. Socialism is a modern movement that only exists in reaction to and as part of modernity. There's not like a bronze age socialist view.", "Here at the Women's Center for Domestic Violence we accept\n\n>Women from all socio-economic backgrounds (no discrimination...)\n\n>No Men.\n\nHuh. Alright then.", "Say what you want about the other whack jobs, but mad respect to the one girl who whipped out $20 for that dude.\n\nAt least she put her money where her mouth was.", "Oof", "The difference between an attempt to punish and an attempt to rectify depend on exactly what side of the payment you are on.", "There’s a dude who replied to you that you ignored that had some good ideas.\n\nWeird.", "Pfff when ocean levels rise 10 feet people on the coast can just sell their homes and move, I don't see why you can't do the same for other areas affected by climate change. /s", "As a child of immigrants reparations seems like bullshit to me. But I'd like someone to try and change my mind. My Dad came to the US from Egypt with his family as a child. They were objectively dirt poor with not a thing to their name. Five of them lived in an absolute garbage apartment in Brooklyn. My dad had effectively just as much of a foothold in this country as much as any child of slaves, meaning absolutely none. Well, and he also had a language barrier to deal with. He and almost all of his siblings became very successful (engineers, entrepreneurs). \n\n\nMy understanding of reparations is that we should be paying the black community because \"our\" previous treatment of them set them back and made it much more difficult to advance in wealth and life. Generation poverty and all that. But how do you reconcile that with my Dad being 1. a brown person, 2. living in abject poverty, 3. not having any kind of generational help and still becoming successful? He didn't have access to anything more than the kids his age whose family had been slaves. \n\n\nDid he have some advantage over those kids and that's why we need to give them money? Should I need to give them money if I was raised by people who received no benefit from the slave trade? The whole situation feels like a half baked scam. But I'm being genuine here, it wouldn't be the first time I've missed an important point. Someone sell me on this concept.", "also, poor and indigenous people in the global south are basically the only ones trying to do anything about it", "Fucking Aquaman", "Reminded me of Mayor Nagin saying that about New Orleans after Katrina", "Had to stop the video before that exchange finished. So fucking cringy.", "> racially based climate change\n\nClimate change disproportionately affects those who suffer from socioeconomic inequalities, including many people of color. As the United States becomes increasingly diverse, understanding how the current crisis impacts people of different racial and ethnic backgrounds is imperative. This article provides a brief overview of the climate challenges faced by communities of color and the steps taken to address the existing disparities.\n\nhttps://psci.princeton.edu/tips/2020/8/15/racial-disparities-and-climate-change", "Oh yeah, exactly same. What is it about cringe that is so unwatchable?!", "\"I need to step aside, be quiet, and let others talk\" is a hard concept for folks to internalize.", "I mean the video is lampooning these volunteers but Uhuru aren't just trying to build a basketball court in st Louis. They have bigger plans for st luis including a women's health center and a workforce program. \nhttps://blackpowerblueprint.org/\n\nAlso: hi neighbor", "His backtrack that he meant chocolate as in a mixture of cream and coco was pretty funny. Also, a lot of people don't realize it but he got a ten year federal corruption conviction that he's still serving right now.", "All of those countries you are speaking of (besides the US) have white people as the minority.", "You change tax laws to tax the rich and establish programs that help disadvantaged communities.\n\nIt's not rich people cutting checks to black people.", "Both of which is forcibly done by the government at the expense of my tax payer dollars", "Yeah but in the context of the discussion he was clearly taking the piss", "How so? A vast majority of eco friendly has been invented in the US", "I hit play, saw what type of event was happening and immediately knew it was gonna be funny. Nothing cringier or funnier that woke white people. They killed traditional comedy, but unintentionally make it.", "It's interesting how they campaign for a cause only to turn it around and make it about themselves somehow.", "noam chomsky has talked about it at length\n\nbasically, what he means is that many of the poorer countries, communities and polities are actually looking for ways to keep their fossil fuels in the ground, while the major world powers, with capital more or less at the helm, are racing off the edge of the cliff\n\nI'm not sure what \"eco-friendly\" means specifically... of course, there's scientists and engineers trying to work cutting GHG emissions, but it's mostly a matter of infrastructure and sound industrial policy, which have been in the shitter for the whole neoliberal era... and the \"eco-friendly\" stuff in market terms is overwhelmingly greenwashing, like lifestyle brands, luxury electric vehicles, self-driving techno-bullshit and similar scams", "The US became the US when we won the revolutionary war. The beginnings of many empires are cruel - there’s not much unusual about that other than the fact that the US ended slavery on its own, something most empires haven’t done if we are speaking historically. Slavery was ended and many steps have been taken since the injustices of Jim Crow. The civil war was fought to end slavery. The US has done a lot to take steps in the right direction - progress. In no other country in the history of the world is a person born into poverty more likely to end up in the middle class, regardless of skin color.", "I think you're coming from an angle of \"if x person can do it with the hardships, then why can't everyone?\" which is an understandable sentiment, but maybe asking the wrong question. Reparations by my understanding is not about paying back what black people in America are owed, but more about acknowledging that the systemic oppression they have suffered under the US government has squandered quite literally hundreds of years of potential progress that could have been developed within those communities. It's why some of the people within the video talk about focusing on reparations not through direct money, but more systemic changes and policy. \n\n\nSo when you ask \"why should they get money when my parents did not\" it feels like you are competing against the person who's been bullied rather than the bully. Why SHOULDN'T a group of people who are treated unfairly be given opportunities to succeed? Is there a reason that we should want people to fail and repeatedly face generations of hardship? I understand that from your perspective it feels like why should this community get assistance when my community cannot, but in reality, it's more about acknowledging that the black community has been disenfranchised repeatedly in order to keep them as lesser. The hope is that by giving them economic opportunities it can allow that community to grow and develop within the country rather than continue to pretend there was nothing ever wrong with their situation. Many of the obstacles facing the black community in order to keep them in check are still in place today. Voter disenfranchisement, zoning problems, urban pollution, lack of access to quality education, lack of access to good affordable food, low income jobs, high crime living areas, over policing of their neighborhoods, etc, etc. \n\n\nUltimately the goal of reparations is not \"give me what is owed me due to my ancestors work\", but instead \"give me the same opportunity to succeed as a white person from the success of our country that my ancestors help build\". Very few people in life want a hand out, most people just want to be able to work the same amount as others and yield the same rewards. Wouldn't you have preferred if your parents could have had access to a more opportunities? In many ways your experience is similar to theirs. Would you have wished it on someone else? Or would you want an easier way.\n\nIf you want more info I'm happy to provide more specific information, but it seems like you were more concerned about it conceptually, so hopefully this has been helpful.", "you hope to one day see black people have the same resources and education as white people, but oppose affirmative action, a policy whose goal is to accomplish just that? So how exactly do we get there, since you seem to have put a lot of thought into this", "Bc they give you a bad name. Easier to take it personally when they’re out there misrepresenting what it means to be left of center.", "Thank you for the well thought out answer. I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I'm still thinking it over. You've made some points I didn't consider enough. I'll definitely have to chew on this for a while.", "These are not the suburbs they would be moving to.", "Hmmm.... wasn't that what happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s... it was called white flight and was also deemed bad. So black ppl need to live in cities only? not allowed in the suburbs?", "[ Jump to 10:42 @ Uhuru March for Reparations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uuGA2xGwg&t=0h10m42s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan, Video Popularity: 98.71%, Video Length: [12:53])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@10:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uuGA2xGwg&t=0h10m37s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "ssshhhh, you're ruining their narrative.", "This video has really brought out the garbage contrarian takes. You have to be really cherrypicking hard to think this represents the average cause that people are activists for.\n\nWhat you are arguing about is dialectic language and it's not as simple as your bs strawman argument. When people say to adjust the English marks it's to account for dialectic differences, not that they \"aren't educated\". This is the point: if a student taught British English took a US college entry exam, would they get marks taken off for colour in an essay? I guess to you they should but to a normal adult it doesn't demonstrate a lack of proficiency in \"English\" or education. That's the point they are making, not your edgy hot take that it's inherent racism.\n\nAffirmative action is also more complicated than you are making it, but that's kind of expected when you are being as purposely reductionist as you are.\n\nBut hey, we hope for the same thing! I guess I just think it requires more than thoughts and prayers.", "Sick analogy, bro. \n\nYour analogies are out of control, everyone knows that.", "It's kind of like when you see a video of someone going to a different country and doing something stupid. If they're from a different country it's funny. If they're from your country you're definitely affected by some heavy second hand embarrassment.", "Her poor father.", "They shouldn’t be unwillingly pushed out there asshole.", "> They were not alive 200 years ago, I don't see why they specifically should pay for it. \n\nbecause history is not a stochastic process of disconnected, independent events? american capital was built on the cotton trade\n\nalso, slavery was not \"200 years ago\" -- it was abolished 150-some years ago and then almost immediately reinstituted under the penal system", "no one is being unwillingly pushed out anywhere, why are you such a terrible person?", "It's selection bias. You make a cause ridiculous enough and only the weirder people are going to show up. What are the odds anyone actually cares that deeply about building a basketball court?", "This country is what it is because of oppression. To say you haven’t benefited from oppression is laughable as you type on your fancy device using ore mined by people in a third world county and built in a factory by people making dollars a year. Not to mention your clothing.", "Looking at their actual website, it seems pretty disingenuous to me how much the channel 5 folks focused on the basketball court.", "Yes, that phrase means non-white people. \n\n\nIt does not mean white people are not allowed though. \n\n\nThat's why they added the clarification with the second statement. \n\n\nThe only people who think \"safe for people of color\" either explicitly or implicitly means \"no whites\" are this loon, and racist white people.", "Yet, by many reports, they do in fact discriminate against dark skinned people.", "Are you sonic?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nCause you are jumping through maaaad hoops...", "It sucks that he was treated like that but it's become pretty clear that going independent was a hugely positive move for them, I think they're doing maybe even better than before now, and not giving up a huge percentage. Some shitty things are for the better", "As a white person, all I have to say is, why are you all so fixated with the amount of melanin in my skin?", "So now your comparing categorizing by gender and categorizing by race?\n\n\n\n\n\nSlippery slope, bud.\n\n\n\n\nAlso a presumably goverment run buissness could not do this legally. You must be a private club to have such ability.", "Embezzlement a hell of a thing. \n\nSometimes it makes even the most devoted follower go \"wait, but thats MY money and you're keeping it and not using it for the cul-... movement? I'm leaving.\"", "Uh....link?? Was it me?", "Money should go towards education and housing for them, and specifically for that only. Like a voucher/rebate of sorts. The job shit I heavily disagree with because it gives priority to someone else based off of biological characteristics instead of actual need.", "Sir, politics is anything that shits on my point of view and reinforces yours. When it's your point getting shit on, and reinforces mine, it's only a joke. You total fool! /s\n\nYeah, that's most sub-reddits. If it offends them, they're gunna ban or remove it.", "Man. I know what I think of this, and it looks like something we see often these days. but wow, this is the Kmart version of misdirected funds and swindling.", "Do not, I repeat, do not comment on the youtube page for this. just scroll down and read the comments.", "Money. There is money in acting like you care. If you can get others to donate and cry, you're getting rich.", "I mean when you have such a close minded view of how this all works, that may be the conclusion you come to. Gentrification is a well studied phenomenon and socioeconomic issue that I urge you to look in to. \n\nThere are policies from years ago, like redlining, which led to these segregated neighborhoods. It’s not white flight, it’s white expansion at this point. The neighborhoods we historically forced these communities in to are now being overrun by expensive housing and corporate rentals.", "No, that mostly goes to military and corporate handouts.", "I think it's important for people on the left to see stuff like this too, that even people that share similar ideologies to them can be... ignorant at best to the complexities of politics, civics, economics, etc. There's idiots, crazies, and opportunistic assholes on both sides of the spectrum, and engaging with them the same way you would a rational person is unproductive to discussion usually.", "Americanism", "They are. Which brings me back to my original comment about Mississippi street in Oregon. That community was forced out towards the airport due to a mass increase in rent prices. Most of the community moved to an outer suburb, Gresham, OR. You would be upset too if the place you’ve lived for years was suddenly made unaffordable because a Jamba Juice and Natural Grocers wanted to move in to town.", "I live in a college town. It's amazing how many of these people there are.\n\nWe had a student body President a couple of years ago who felt the needs to co-opt the Ice Bucket challenge, that was raising awareness and funding for ALS, into a \"blood bucket challenge\" to demand the university divest itself from Israel. Advocate for what you want, but co-opting existing good works, just looks like you're trying to get clout to apply to a good grad school.", ">duped these well meaning white people to think that giving him money is the same as reparations\n\nI figure he's about as close to slavery as anyone else alive today is. Why not him?", "That's kinda racist you know...", "ITT: incredibly strange combination of black nationalism and revolutionary socialism", "It's a bit of a long story, but it's \"convenient\" how lots of things going on, like climate change, disproportionately affect poor people more than rich people, which extends to poor groups vs rich groups. The same is true for lots of other things, like COVID-19: Rich people have the luxury to socially distance in their own house from everyone else, high quality masks, cars to privately take them to medical care, high quality internet they can use to talk to other people, high-skill jobs they can do online, etc. while poor people doing low-skill jobs don't have access to their own cars, PPE, private transportation that takes them wherever they want to go or when they need to, housing that isn't shared with tons of other people, etc. so disproportionately, poor groups got sick more often from COVID-19.", "Is this why you are such a huge fan of [these guys trying to start another civil war?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFMcKgVkAE4Qyt.jpg:large)", "You still have to follow the money. Amazon is a garbage company, but Bezos didn't make his money off of American slavery, he made his money off of web developers and normal people using Amazon since it is the most convenient way to buy stuff. Sure, some of that money probably can be traced back to American slavery in the 1800s if you follow the chain of wealth back far enough, but Bezos does not have that blood on his hands any more than you would if you work at McDonalds and it turns out some of the money you got paid was from a guy whose great great grandfather made money of slavery and they inherited that wealth and bought a bunch of Big Macs with some of it. If you want to do reparations, you need to find the groups where you can easily trace a direct line to money made off of slavery, like old companies that profited off slavery or money directly recorded to be inherited from plantation owners, and the Federal government/state governments, taxing the rich and reparations are both good ideas but they're separate good ideas that shouldn't be conflated.", "Sorry I have am issues with certain types of ignorance.", "Shout out to Cash App.", "I saw him last night at a Phish concert, I even was in one of his shots, didn't get interviewed though. I'm hoping I make it in the video", "Is this satire or mental illness?", "Are they really minorities if the majority of the world isn't white tho?", "Ok, but you could say the same about literally every hardship in the history of forever. They are easier to overcome with money.", "No shit, but people seem to forget that things like climate change also fit into this category. Being able to say \"I've never been affected by climate change\" just shows that you were lucky enough to have lived in a position where you've never had to deal with it, unlike millions of people across the world who have.", "I wonder how many more times she'd do it before she'd start telling people \"NO\".... She may live somewhere white enough that she could afford to give every Black person she encounters $5.", "I guess I just don't see the point you are trying to make. Why say \"lots of things going on, like climate change, disproportionately affect poor people more than rich people\" when every hardship that exists has that characteristic? Lots of positive numbers, for example 12, are greater than 0. \"No shit\", as you say", "> You still have to follow the money. \n\nYour reading comprehension is just absolute dogshit. \n\nOkay, let's \"follow the money\" then. I'll repeat. American capital was built on the cotton trade. If it wasn't for the transatlantic slave trade and cotton, and subsequent domination of textile industry, built on slavery and genocide, and then steel and the whole caboose of industrial policy, right up to semiconductors, ARPANET and state-funded microelectronics -- there would likely be a few thousand European settlers in America right now, exploiting their comparative advantage by exporting fish and fur. American wealth was built on the backs of slaves and the current solution to children of those slaves disproportionately living in generational poverty is to set up history's biggest mass incarceration system and shove all the superfluous population in there, to [make Revlon fashion accessories and circuit boards for Bezos' prime day blowout](https://books.google.com/books?id=XjGvBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=circuit+boards+prison+labor&source=bl&ots=Y5W_fb1B9i&sig=9sc2hnPUMJxN2BxV8TQdHZpzSSs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BgqXVburAc-kyATp6aPQCg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=circuit%20boards%20prison%20labor&f=false) at 23 cents an hour.", "yikes", "Yes. You can be for equality and still believe reparations is an r slurred approach to it.", "Just saw a stream of this and still trying to figure out what racial biased climate change is can someone help?", "Eh I dont. The lady who explained why the money should come from the government at least knew why she was there.", "[Tulsa race massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre) \n \n >The Tulsa race massacre took place on May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been deputized and given weapons by city officials, attacked Black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma, US. Alternatively known as the Tulsa pogrom, the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre, the event is considered one of \"the single worst incident[s] of racial violence in American history\". The attackers burned and destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the neighborhood – at the time one of the wealthiest Black communities in the United States, known as \"Black Wall Street\".\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Not enough pedophiles in the video", "lol... that cause is fucking stupid... but the video is so funny it's fucking gold", ">My Dad came to the US from Egypt with his family as a child. \n\nWhat did he do in Egypt before immigrating?", "> and the first nations that are set to feel the effects of rising temperatures and sea levels are places like Bangladesh and Zanzibar.\n\nAnd the Netherlands\n\n...\n\n\nwait...", "This is a tiny minority of people even within leftist circles. A large majority of my friends are pro-BLM and think people like this are ridiculous", "How many white people live in the Netherlands?", "lol there are like 5 people there.", "We truly need to find a cure for Liberalism. Let's go Brandon.", "Ever been in an argument where someone else comes in to support your side, except they don't really bring up any valid points and mostly just insult the other person? \nKinda like that, they are on \"your side\", but all they are doing is discredit you.", "\"Everyone that lives in the states benefits equally from its system\" is oversimplistic. Most black people in America benefit from modern systems, but they don't benefit \"as well\" as the average white person. There's dozens of examples of this, from redlining to community development to education disparities.\n\nIt's obviously hard to quantify across the entirety of the country, but trends of \"benefit\" disparity have evidently existed (and still do today, to ideally a decreasing extent)", "So you agree government intervention isn’t the solution?", "Washington DC is the original Chocolate City. At least that's what I've been told.", "None of those things exist or have any timeframe for completion. In fact I can’t point to a single thing they’ve actually done. Can you link me to any of their completed projects?\n\nUhuru furniture has also been around since 94. I’m not certain we really know where the funds go.", ">Ok, well first off your parents chose to immigrate to the US while most black Americans did not\n\nThey didn't have much of a choice. The apartment building they lived at in Cairo was bombed by extremists and they had nowhere to live. They had to start a new life elsewhere.\n\nThe point I was making was that prejudiced behavior aside, if you're starting out penniless in the ghetto then you don't have it any easier than a black person who is penniless and in the ghetto whose grandparents were slaves, especially if you're not a white person. Not that it's easy to be poor and white, they just have a few less things to worry about.\n\nThere is nothing stopping a black person who grew up in the same poor ghetto my father did from achieving the same success he did. They lived under the same conditions, both were victims of racism, both had essentially zero help from the government. What is the advantage my father had?\n\nYou have a valid point that the Black community was oppressed and put into situations that made it significantly more difficult to achieve things, but how do you make recompense for that? And at what point do we stop counting? How many more decades into the future do we need to keep calculating the damage done to black people and keep cutting them checks?\n\nWho pays for the reparations? The taxpayers? Why should my immigrant father have to pay for something nobody in his ancestry took part in or benefited from? Should black people be taxed for reparations payments? Do we tax people based on skin color? What about first generation black immigrants who have come here recently? Does the government need to do genealogy tests on everyone to decide how guilty they are? Should only people above a certain income be taxed for it? Why are they solely responsible for that? Who should really be held accountable for this?\n\nWe already have things like affirmative action which gives priority to minority groups when it comes to things like getting into schools, getting scholarships, jobs, etc. If the goal is to help oppressed groups regain some of the lost progress they had then the proper course of action is to try and help them get in to schools and improve their communities and shut down prejudiced behavior. Just arbitrarily throwing money at them does nothing to help.", "It might certainly get worse for those who live in the \"Global south\" which are mostly people in equatorial regions and underdeveloped countries, as well as island nations that will basically be destroyed by rising ocean levels.\n\nIt's going to be bad for EVERYBODY, no doubt, but people who live off the land on a subsistence basis or live in already hot climates are going to be in trouble first.", "> noam chomsky \n\nLOL!", "There definitely will be. Part of the reason he ceased All Gas is because they wanted more party humor and he wanted more journalism. The parent company did not like the Minneapolis protest video at all", "OU oh yeah?", "The clip was old. Gazi left APSP/USM, itself a cultish org, to found Black Hammer.", "I dunno, whatever children do in Egypt.", "He also made his money off of the fact that his workers are highly, highly productive but only get paid a small percentage of the GDP they generate.", "Well, what did his father do?", "author of about [a hundred books](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky_bibliography_and_filmography), one of the chief founders of the cognitive sciences and literally the most cited living intellectual, [just behind Aristotle and Hegel](https://news.mit.edu/1992/citation-0415)\n\n\"LOL!\"\n\nwant to share your credential with us peasants, since that doesn't meet your rigorous standards?", "Awww, look. It's still upset it's fellow cultists are being tossed into federal prisons for their little field trip to the cap. Funny, every once in awhile I'll be scrolling through a random reddit post and I'll see a dunce like you, trying to make your point to a random redditor that you thought was some sort of ally because of one of their comments. LMAO I love it.", "The time for Reparations has long since passed.", "That's a separate valid concern, but that's not the same question as \"Should Jeff Bezos pay slavery reparations\", the solution to that is to change labor laws so that Amazon (and a shitload of other companies but Amazon is the one that happens to make the news for it) can't treat their workers the way they do and pay them a more fair share. With that said, Jeff Bezos's wealth doesn't have a direct line to American slavery from the 1800s, so that's not something you can easily pin on him. There are a shitload of other better reasons to tax him before slavery reparations.\n\nWithin 100 years most, if not all, manual labor jobs will be dead anyways considering the current speed of technology.", "Just take the L. Reddit has spoken and certified your opinion as dogshit.", "*\"rAcIaLLy BaSeD cLImAtE cHaNgE\"\n\nThat got a good laugh outta me. Goddamn this feels like a parody.", "The only real way to deal with it on that level is just to tax everyone* and put that money towards areas where lots of black people live. You're not wrong- lots of American wealth came from slavery- but it's not like there's an easy way to trace that money back and make sure money from slavery goes to black people outside of just blanket taxing everyone, which isn't a bad idea, but which is also not reparations.", "They all seem so damn patronizing.", "> The only real way to deal with it on that level is just to tax everyone and put that money towards areas where lots of black people live.\n\nNo, I'm pretty sure that just describes one particular implementation of reparations? It's a really stupid one, unfortunately, if we apply it to the real world. The glaring problem with it, of course, is just that, under the logic of capital, that means a bunch black folks would be priced out of their neighborhoods and communities and affluent, predominantly-white yuppies would reap the rewards.\n\nThe other, equally obvious problem is the same as with any implementation: sending money to underdeveloped black neighborhoods won't make the Newt Gingriches of the world too happy, because those are dollars in subsidies that the malignant parasites can't leach off the federal government for the state-dependent affluent white suburbs that keep electing them.", "i for one welcome our Amazon robot overlords and their fiscal contributions to the UBI offered by the inevitable technocracy.", "Right, and Kanye not only makes his music, but packages it, advertises it, designs all the art for it, personally uploads it to streaming services, delivers it to buyers, books himself appearances and shows, and everything else that the people working for him do?", "To me BLM is just Black Panthers rebranded in a PG world", "People think that a lot of newer issues, like climate change, don't really affect anyone because they specifically haven't felt any of the impacts of it and likely won't. By insisting that it's an issue that discriminates in how it impacts people, it reinforces that points and makes people use that perspective.", "Except she didn’t. She said the money should be paid by those who benefitted off the labor of black people, implying she has experienced no benefit to her being white. She essentially just denied systemic racism exists which I’m willing to bet she disagrees with. She’s just a hypocrite.", "Gonzo that Hunter Thompson himself would be proud of. Keep up the good stuff Andrew.", "Why do you figure that?", "Black Hammer is what happens when you have people utterly obsessed with liberal idpol attempt to start a revolutionary movement without any sort of foundations in socialism. Well, that and the grifting. What a fucking mess.", "No but is the semantic argument really necessary when everyone understands what's being said?", "White women are self absorbed. More shocking news after 5", "It's such a good tactic, just sit there and you'll see how quickly people desperate to talk dig themselves into a hole.\n\nUsually the smart ones have a clear point and it stands on its own.", ">Sorry, I didn't realize that the entire city of Cairo only had a single apartment building in it and the only choices that your parents had were either homelessness or move specifically to America. I'm trying to discuss with you in good faith, if you can't even admit that your parents chose to move here when there was an entire globe to choose from then I'm clearly wasting my time discussing the more intricate details surrounding this.\n\nDon't have a lot of choices when you're poor, homeless, and Christian in Egypt. When Islamic extremists blow up your apartment, you don't move into an apartment across the street. And this argument of yours is completely beside the point. If black slaves built this country into a place worth moving to for the opportunities, then the black families in my fathers poor neighborhood would also benefit from what the slaves built. They would have been on equal footing.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>But it basically boils down to the easiest way to make money is to have money. Investing works. Owning your own home is the first step to building wealth to move yourself up and give your descendants the best opportunities.\n\nSo your argument is that because Black Americans were denied these things they couldn't make progress. I wonder how my fathers parents managed to raise all their children into successful professionals when they too had none of the things you say are required to generate wealth. And on top of that they could barely speak English. If they had been black and their grandparents had been slaves, what would have changed for them? Same scenario, just add slavery into their history.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Your father and you are both benefiting from it. He chose to move to the US when he had the entire world to choose from because of it's economic standing and opportunity. As I have repeatedly said, that was built on the backs of black Americans.\n\nIt's true that cotton exports generated a massive amount of wealth for America, but the south's economy was still on the verge of collapse. Over 50% of Americas export was cotton, but slavery was still too expensive to maintain. The wealth generated by cotton crop did contribute small amounts of funding to other industries, but by and large had no impact on the advancement in iron making, farming, mining, or engineering. Slavery significantly slowed the industrialization of the south. If anything slavery hurt the building of America. This is not to minimize the suffering of the slaves, just to dispel this myth \"slaves built America\".\n\nI'm perfectly willing to accept that something should be done to make recompense for the segregation and stealing of land among many other atrocities, but the argument for arbitrary payments from everyone is absurd. There is no logical argument for reparations, but there are arguments for things like affirmative action and spending tax payer dollars to build up black communities. Those are things that would actually help black Americans now and for future generations. Just cutting checks is.. it's just asinine.", "It's insane how many white liberals will call black people with ideological foundations in any other movement, regardless of whether it's conservatism or Marxism or anarchism, Uncle Toms if they don't agree on their social policies.", "as a liberal, these people who are so hyper left to the point of being ignorant of what they are even trying to do annoy me. but like he said, it all starts with their heart being in the right place. i mean, the right wing version of these people are the ones marching because they have to wear masks or dont want gay people or pregnant people to have equal rights. so they start out with their heart in the absolute worst place.\n\nat least the people in the video are under the impression that what they are doing is good. they just need some guidance lol", "For me, its because if you look at what they are doing and saying it all starts with a positive agenda. But somewhere along the lines they either get misdirected and start thinking they are helping when they arent, or they are straight up just manipulating people for money which is also possible.\n\nThe trumpers, anti vax, anti mask, protesting teaching kids about black history etc are all doing what they do because they are pieces of shit who only care about themselves. So its easy to say fuck them and write them off.", ".", "racially based climate change xD \n\nWTF", "They didn't \"live long ago\" -- there's people alive today that know what a sundown town is, because they remember when the sheriff and pastor would call a school holiday and welcome a wholesome family outing to string a black man from a tree. They are currently living in a settler-colonial society, whose foremost ideology has always been white supremacy, today -- and the slave system still, for that matter, continues through the most expansive mass incarceration project in recorded history, set up explicitly as a racist class control policy, to deal with blacks and the insubordinate rabble. That's not my framing of it -- it's Haldeman's, Ehrlichman's, etc.", "Huh? He signed a contract where the production company took all the risk in exchange for a guaranteed salary. The channel became a hit and then he wanted to cut the production company out of their agreed upon share.\n\nThat sounds unfair for him until you think about all the risks that company took that didn't pan out", "Fucking Gazi.\n\nIdiot thinks antifa is a single, organised, established group.\n\nDude dresses like some Joker wannabe. He needs mental help.", "Roflmao that has got to be one of the most convoluted messages I have ever seen on Reddit. Am I correct that you are winning an argument against fantasy voices in your head?", "Maybe. BLM is far less unified and organized than Black Panthers. BP established a lot of permanent food drives and health clinics, and inspired a lot of black Americans to take active self-defense measures.\n\nBut BP also existed in a significantly less PG era, so it's hard to compare the two.", "no you absolute moron\n\nchuds linked my post and mass voted it down -- those were the embarrassing reddit-with-extra-reddit-on-top replies\n\nseriously though how do you not drown in the shower, jesus fucking christ you are dumb as hell", "Not sure Israel Palestine is the debate you want to wade into if your doing it to get into a grad school.", "He really is amazing.\n\nKanye 2024", "Kinda tiring to constantly hear people call this \"future of journalism\" or \"the only good journalism\"\n\n\nThere is plenty of good journalism out there if you look beyond Reddit people.", "Just remember that they are being genuine. It is silly and i hope they realize it one day but until that, just nod respectfully and move on. Their heart is in the right place.", "Narcissist grifters are attracted to social causes, they have plenty of people who may start idolizing you, you gain followers and power easily. All of the progressive movements have few of those individuals, so do all the new age, hippie, laadidaa \"super good people\" that recycle and care for the planet, who are good, genuine people. You will notice the narcissist manipulators by their history; they move from group to group after they have tried to, or had sex with all that moves... or gathered money only to never do what was promised, they get burned and move to the next fad.\n\nSource: been in enough new age laadidaa \"we are so good people\" groups and seen the predators that move inside them, who are not in it for the right reasons. Grifters are attracted to those groups, they are predators sensing prey. Those people do not like me, one bit, it is instant and mutual dislike.", "America is weird man....", "Think for a second what races of people live at the equator", "I was thinking more that it’s basically your average redditor", "I dont understand how the actions of your ancestors should affect you. Im Norwegian so its a mix of Vikings and Russians, pillagers and rapists, why should i feel bad about what they did? i dont, and i dont give a fuck either.", "I remember seeing a video of a black dude wanting to shop while Antifa blocked him, and he and other black dudes called them out and told them to fuck off, they arent helping anything, and the white antifa guy is like ''im helpin'' while the black people tell them to fuck off.", "He’d probably be less ashamed if she was doing film shoots in the San Fernando valley", "It's like they were so supportive they went full circle straight back to racist", "And you are replying me four pages of hopelessly indented convos with other people, in a format that nobody will ever bother to read because... why? 😂\n\nTruly a master at argumentation. We are watching a genius at work, everybody! Yes, surely it's everyone else who are the stupid ones! You do not come across as stupid at all. 😏", "So I guess you can't, racist.", "White liberal women are the most racist of all, prove me wrong.", "Aren't they at admins positions?", "Who cares if they're genuine if they're stupid?", "Klan buddies? Emasculated? Dickless? Porridge-brained chud fuck? 🤣 You sound like some ultra left winger who is watching alt-right videos in secret and have fallen for their lingo. \n\nWhat's even more hilarious is how you keep adding one extra insult to another in edit after edit, as if you go \"Shit, I forgot to mention chud fuck! There, I'll edit again. NOW people will see my point!\" \n\nBut yeah, it's definitely other people who are stupid. You seem super smart! 😏", "compared to you, I do and I am -- might as well be stephen hawking\n\nif you had any shame or self-awareness whatsoever you would delete all of your idiotic posts in this thread and apologize for being a complete fuckwit, but if you want to leave your stupidity on display, I'll make sure to mock you for it every time you call in a vote brigade\n\ntakes literally two seconds to copy and paste -- takes longer for you to hide it", "I don't know what you're arguing against, I already told you you're coming across as super smart! 😏 You are painting a great picture of yourself here! 😂\n\nEdit: \"Call in a vote brigade\" hahahah, dude gets downvoted to shit, proceeds to convince himself it must be because of some dedicated downvoting group! Yeah because we've already established there's nothing wrong with your arguments or linguistics! So what else could the reason be?? You clearly come across as a very smart dude with great arguments!\n\n^^Copium ^^much? ^^😂", "Equal outcomes != equal opportunities", "I believe there was talk of contract renegotiation (for pay raise and some creative control) and Doing Things Media decided he was replaceable. Pretty standard hold up problem.", "I know everyone is making fun of them but their heart really is in the right place. They obviously care, just comes off cringe the way they're going about it.", "It matters when you interact with them, or at least, any decent person would take that into account, that we are not talking about grifters but well meaning, good hearted people. That evokes compassion. Or at least, it should. If it doesn't for you, you need to figure out why and fix it. So, instead of ridicule, just move on. In fact, you care enough to comment, \"who cares\" is a bit disingenuine or you are just not self aware enough to notice that you care, just a bit.", "IIRC from the interview he did about it afterwards, his own POV painted him as pretty unsympathetic. \n\n\nDTM covered everything up front, the show turned out to be a hit - and then Andrew acted like them owning the show was somehow them fucking him over. \n\n\nHe basically wanted the convenience and safety of being a hired actor with the control and ownership of being your own producer. \n\n\nMy read was that he wasn't replaceable (idek if the show found a new host) but that his demands were likely absurd to the point where DTM would rather shut it down than concede to them.", "affirmative action is not reparations", "Ah, good old positive racism. Also, I'm pretty sure that one dude is from that black hammer thing. All a setup to convince guilty white people that giving their money away is how to fix racism as opposed to broader social and political change.", "Ben Shapiro made this exact point unironically when asked about sea level rise.", "Yeah, reparations has always been a red herring. It will and never should happen. How do you even validate? Skin tone? Did Barack Obama need reparations even though his father was a Kenyan immigrant and his mother was white? Nobody has papers going back that far.\n.\nAt the end of the day, the symptom of generations of slavery and racism is poverty, and poverty. Poverty is race blind. The poor white guy in a trailer park in WV is suffering the same fate as a black person in the ghetto. Attack poverty universally, but race-based solutions aren't going to be effective.", "Oh alright. That would make sense. With establishing the brand around Callaghan, he was probably able to hold up DTM up to the value of the entire contract, which like you said would make it more beneficial to just can it altogether.", "Add in the CIA/FBI and you’ve got a stew going baby", "Yeah I wish everyone would just like chill out and vote for Pete Buttigieg or whatever. Amirite?", "They're well intentioned and campaigning to have a chunk of my wages taken from me to be spent frivolously. They can fuck off.\n\nAnyone who wants reparations can spend their own money or start a voluntary fund.", "Seriously. Any argument ever used before is a dog whistle if you're debating someone from the woke left.\n\nThe term dog whistle is basically a tool deployed by these people to inoculate themselves against rational arguments.\n\nOf course, there are legitimate dog whistle terms, but the woke left have abused the term so now anyone who uses it gets associated with the woke left baggage.\n\nIt's like how the alt-right ruined the term virtue signalling with their obnoxious baggage.", "A land without water rights, too.", "Sure, but all I have is a 10. Got two 5's you could spot me?", "This is going back up every time they vote it down:\n\n> They were not alive 200 years ago, I don't see why they specifically should pay for it. \n\nbecause history is not a stochastic process of disconnected, independent events? american capital was built on the cotton trade\n\nalso, slavery was not \"200 years ago\" -- it was abolished 150-some years ago and then almost immediately reinstituted under the penal system\n\n\n---\n\n##The dumb-as-shit, embarrassing replies, preferred by reddit's klan chapter to descriptive historical facts:\n\n\n>You still have to follow the money. Amazon is a garbage company, but Bezos didn't make his money off of American slavery, he made his money off of web developers and normal people using Amazon since it is the most convenient way to buy stuff. Sure, some of that money probably can be traced back to American slavery in the 1800s if you follow the chain of wealth back far enough, but Bezos does not have that blood on his hands any more than you would if you work at McDonalds and it turns out some of the money you got paid was from a guy whose great great grandfather made money of slavery and they inherited that wealth and bought a bunch of Big Macs with some of it. If you want to do reparations, you need to find the groups where you can easily trace a direct line to money made off of slavery, like old companies that profited off slavery or money directly recorded to be inherited from plantation owners, and the Federal government/state governments, taxing the rich and reparations are both good ideas but they're separate good ideas that shouldn't be conflated.\n\n>>Your reading comprehension is just absolute dogshit. \n\n>>Okay, let's \"follow the money\" then. I'll repeat. American capital was built on the cotton trade. If it wasn't for the transatlantic slave trade and cotton, and subsequent domination of textile industry, built on slavery and genocide, and then steel and the whole caboose of industrial policy, right up to semiconductors, ARPANET and state-funded microelectronics -- there would likely be a few thousand European settlers in America right now, exploiting their comparative advantage by exporting fish and fur. American wealth was built on the backs of slaves and the current solution to children of those slaves disproportionately living in generational poverty is to set up history's biggest mass incarceration system and shove all the superfluous population in there, to [make Revlon fashion accessories and circuit boards for Bezos' prime day blowout](https://books.google.com/books?id=XjGvBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=circuit+boards+prison+labor&source=bl&ots=Y5W_fb1B9i&sig=9sc2hnPUMJxN2BxV8TQdHZpzSSs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BgqXVburAc-kyATp6aPQCg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=circuit%20boards%20prison%20labor&f=false) at 23 cents an hour.\n\n>>> The only real way to deal with it on that level is just to tax everyone and put that money towards areas where lots of black people live. You're not wrong- lots of American wealth came from slavery- but it's not like there's an easy way to trace that money back and make sure money from slavery goes to black people outside of just blanket taxing everyone, which isn't a bad idea, but which is also not reparations.\n\n\n>>>>No, I'm pretty sure that just describes one particular implementation of reparations? It's a really stupid one, unfortunately, if we apply it to the real world. The glaring problem with it, of course, is just that, under the logic of capital, that means a bunch black folks would be priced out of their neighborhoods and communities and affluent, predominantly-white yuppies would reap the rewards.\n\n>>>>The other, equally obvious problem is the same as with any implementation: sending money to underdeveloped black neighborhoods won't make the Newt Gingriches of the world too happy, because those are dollars in subsidies that the malignant parasites can't leach off the federal government for the state-dependent affluent white suburbs that keep electing them.\n\n---\n\n>It's impossible to sift through all the wrongs in history and think it will somehow be made right by making the people living today atone for the sins of people who lived long ago just because they have the same skin color.\n\n>>They didn't \"live long ago\" -- there's people alive today that know what a sundown town is, because they remember when the sheriff and pastor would call a school holiday and welcome a wholesome family outing to string a black man from a tree. They are currently living in a settler-colonial society, whose foremost ideology has always been white supremacy, today -- and the slave system still, for that matter, continues through the most expansive mass incarceration project in recorded history, set up explicitly as a racist class control policy, to deal with blacks and the insubordinate rabble. That's not my framing of it -- it's Haldeman's, Ehrlichman's, etc.", "Another reason to hate California", "The epitome of [Baizuo 白左](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo)", "Good luck middle of nowhere Colorado places him in heavy Republican territory in Colorado", "No problem, if you're curious about more in depth info or me elaborating on any specific points then just let me know and I'm more than happy to elaborate.", "Holy crap that wiki page is a hoot", "Is this just a \"all mods are pedos\" kinda thing? Or was there something specific about that subs mods?", "Because being liberal has been painted as the \"common sense\" and \"logical conclusion\" of free thought and critical thinking.\n\nThese people attach themselves to a movement and completely discredit it by neither being critical thinkers or believing in freedom of thought or expression.", "Sadim with the sickkk flair tag 🔥", "Yeah I agree. I was kind of surprised at all the comments saying they are complete idiots.", "Reparations have been paid many times in the past for things like taking Native American land, forced sterillizations, Japanese-Americans who were interned during WWII. I agree poverty is a universal issue, but it’s hard to argue that the legacy of slavery isn’t still responsible in part for widespread poverty in Black communities. That doesn’t neccesarily mean reparations in the form of sending black people checks who can prove their slave ancestry is the way to own up to our history however, but it’s not like it hasn’t been done in the past.", "its called horseshoe theory", "For some reason this makes me think of the sex mountain scene in arrested development.", "Am I the only one really confused by what the one person meant when they said “Africa is the youngest continent”?", "I'm glad ignorant furries on Reddit don't run anything", "That was their point about gentrification in the middle of the video. These \"woke\" white people moving to Oakland are actually part of the problem.", "It’s worse for the black community. It rewards mediocrity relative to their nonblack classmates. The statistics of students who’ve taken advantage of affirmative action paint a very dark picture. The dropout rate of these students is a factor higher than their classmates because many of them should’ve gone to a school more suited to their educational ability.\n\nWe probably agree on the problem: helping african american communities to build an economic foundation through education. But that doesn’t mean we agree on the solution to that problem. Affirmative action is pretty much terrible for everybody", "Oh my god, so many red flags\n\nNo age discrimination - I really hope this is about old people and not Urhm… anyway\n\nPeople of all colors! (No white people) - ok, so selectively inclusive. That’s not an oxymoron /s\n\nNo cops - While I understand where this is coming from, I’m not sure this has been thought through at all\n\nHolistic medicine - uh oh, spirit healing and magic water incoming \n\n\n\nSo in summary, we’re going to take a marginalized group of people, put them in the middle of no where with no police, no real medicine and we’re going to check upfront they don’t discriminate on age \n\nYikes", "Sonic didn't really jump through a lot of hoops; he mainly collected them. Maybe Superman from Superman 64 would work.", "They also specify no white people, multiple times", "There is plenty, but there’s far more terrible journalism. Finding good, unbiased sources takes some work. Not a lot, but it’s more than some are willing to put in. Easier to let confirmation bias just roll", "You know nothing of them. They could be naked right now as far as you know. And oppression is not the only thing that creates economic opportunity. Do you think the modern functioning economy is oppressive? Because I think the free market rewards innovation and efficiency and most people have the economic freedom to choose an occupation or industry which suits them, whether that means they’re a lawyer, doctor, engineer, construction, service, retail, educator, accountant, salesperson, mechanic, artist, nurse, or however they decide to contribute to society", "Your heart might be in the right place, but your thinking is pretty flawed imo. Firstly, minimum wage legislation has literally always resulted in a rise in unemployment. This relationship has literally never been challenged in the US. Consider the secondary and tertiary effects of what you think are solutions. Much of the time, those effects are far worse than the problem being solved in the first place", "Since you brought up the outcomes, i’ll link to this article on the topic: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/08/02/can-affirmative-action-survive\n\nIt makes better points than i’ll be able to make, so i’d say give it a read through. It’s a balanced view on the subject. I disagree that it’s worse for black people than nothing at all, but i’ll also agree that it’s got its problems.", "Noam Chomsky has had two pretty much unrelated careers. One in linguistics and one in politics. In the sciences, he is celebrated and studied. In politics, I find him quite delusional. The difference is that politics is a matter of opinion. I can respect his work in linguistics and disagree with his sociopolitical views", "164 million > 17 million\n\nNobody is saying white people won't be affected. Everyone is talking about the proportions.", "There are more poor white people than poor black people. This is a function of population percentages", "It’s not. The problems in black communities are not a remnant of slavery. If that were the case, why were most of those communities doing much better prior to the Great Depression? Thomas Sowell has studied this phenomenon at length and found that the main causes are misguided and poorly run government programs. For example, programs which only pay households of single parents. It literally motivates married couples to split to receive more money. That’s caused splits in the communities (at least in Chicago). There are many more programs with similar effects. Couple this with Old Man Daley’s work on cutting off the communities from the greater city and you get the modern Chiraq", "Ok, then get the cities that discriminated against minorities (be they racial, religious, gender/sexual) to invest in those communities. Don't punish everyone of certain races more without regard for the fact that tens of millions of them were born or immigrated after those policies ended in places they never lived in.\n\nRacial/societal justice is a hard thing to achieve. Blanket proposals like \"reparations\" only further the division and don't achieve justice. It's better to take incremental steps to solve various problems, not try to fix every problem at once with an easy bandaid.", "And he's written roughly as much on empire, capital, propaganda, history and geopolitics as he has on linguistics, which actually impressively earned him even more standing than dragging cog sci, kicking and screaming, into the sphere of the hard, natural sciences. They're also not as unrelated as you might think, if you understand the social context of Skinnerian and Spencerian woo-woo, its Taylorist implications and so on -- there's a solid through line from social anarchism to smashing up the pseudoscience that gives statist and capitalist propagandists the pretext for class domination and control -- but that's really beside the point.\n\nI don't know if you needed my permission to disagree with him, but if you want it -- okay, go nuts. No offense though -- I... don't really care? He's still descriptively probably the most serious and respected authority on global politics in the world right now. So, my correct answer to \"LOL\" is still -- one more time -- \"sorry, who the fuck are you again r-dash-guysomething747?\"\n\nI mean, it's pathetic enough when Dan Everett makes it his life's claim to fame that Chomsky called him a dumb asshole to some Brazillian newspaper that one time, fifteen years ago. And Everett is, at loosely speaking, a credentialed scholar, not some anonymous chud on (and off) reddit dot com.", "Why would government programs disproportionally effect black Americans?", "The cities that discriminated against minorities are, let me check my notes.... all of them, without exception. \"Discriminated\" is not even the right word -- that's like calling John Wayne Gacy a \"mediocre clown for children's parties.\"", "Perhaps, but there is quite a bit of difference between sundown towns or cities with legal segregation, and more subtle discrimination like unequal hiring practices. Both are harmful, but murder should be treated worse than grand theft, no?", "You seem to think that it's ok for a community to move as long as you don't like 'em but if you feel pity for them you don't think they should move, it's a very odd way to view the world, ngl", ">\"Spending tax payer dollars to build up black communities\" is literally reparations.\n\nTechnically incorrect. We use tax dollars to improve communities for everyone, reparations in this context means something very specific. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise, and you're just going on personal attacks because you can't actually explain your thoughts. We don't have to continue this conversation.", "Nah its just a general sentiment. As far as I'm aware ther haven't been any accusations towards the mods of this subreddit.", "I tried to keep most of my replies descriptive, because I don't have a lot of opinions here, to be honest. The fact is, the US exists as the world's leading political hegemon and economic superpower in large part because of the exploitation of forced black labor, under far and away the most inhuman and cruel slave system in the historical record, which only recently gave way to a de facto permanent underclass -- and it continues to run in part on coerced, exploited black labor through its morbidly bloated penal system, set up largely to punish the black population for the civil rights movement. The people that built the thing under colonial boot heels -- save for a few scattered decades of relatively egalitarian growth -- are still suffering historically unparalleled racist class control policies. On reparations, I just don't really give a shit about the specifics of compensation, to be honest. I think it's what you might call an academic question -- as opposed to something that might actually happen. But it's clear that state and capital bear the blame that neither has a leg to stand on when people say it's time for some atonement.\n\nedit - \n\nI mean, if we're just shooting the shit and fantasizing, forget cities and states. Let's start by taking Bezos, Musk, Gates, and all the other other conspicuous parasites, along with their PR squads, loading them up into a giant dick-rocket, firing them into the sun, then handing out all all the capital and equity they've leeched off the nanny state with a cute postcard that says \"so sowwy\" and has a sad kitten on it. Who cares? It's more fun to imagine than wading through the moral calculus of municipal culpability and tax policy or whatever.", "Well, while you are mulling over the very good answer given below, also think about how many immigrants come from educated families, and how education, both the ability and desire to obtain it, are often just as much a part of intergenerational wealth cash and property.\n\nNote: I am not saying that this is true in your family's specific case, but it is often true with immigrants in the later half of the 20th century. They are often self-selected for things like education, given the immigration requirements of the US. Whereas for at least 350 years (are arguably into the present day), the education part of the intergenerational transfer of wealth was completely interrupted for American blacks. You can see this in data comparing Nigerian immigrants to American blacks. \n\n\nAnd further, it does not diminish your grandfathers and fathers drive, work ethic, and success. But it can help explain why socieconomic barriers exist for American blacks.", "Because he's confirming his bias that the echoes oc slavery and racism don't affect black communities today, which is fucking absurd myopic bullshit. It does still affect them, but I believe rather than try to implement race-based solutions which are divisive and impossible to get majority approval on, we stick with treating the root problem instead and make it universal.\n\nWhat did the son of a Mexican immigrant do to deserve their poverty, or the white guy in an abandoned coal town raised by pill popping parents? Why should one race get a pass for while others don't?\n\nThis is why while I fully accept that the echoes of slavery, Jim Crow and redlining continue to affect black people today, they should t be singled out as the only group that needs help.", "I agree those are all huge problems that need to be resolved (and atoned for), but I don't know what the solution is, and I think that realistically some compromise will need to be made between rhetoric and action. I think that's all that's left for me to say, really.\n\nI'm not trying to be the \"white moderate\", here, I'm really not. I've experienced life in the US as a racial minority (mixed Asian) and I know that there are huge issues in terms of culture and policy (especially how society normalizes many forms of aggression against POC). But at the same time, I feel that well meaning white activists (as in the video) don't care to listen to minority voices - not just black but Asian, Latino, Amerindian, and mixed race) - and I find it really hard to agree with them.\n\nI think it should be left at that. I don't care to get into a lengthy Reddit argument today.", "Totally agree, altough I would add that certain groups would benefit from tailored programs to meet their specific needs. The aid to poverty in Chicago will likely need to look different than the former coal miner in West Virginia, but in terms of equality of urgency they should be the same.", "> but I don't know what the solution is, and I think that realistically some compromise will need to be made between rhetoric and action\n\nI think you have a good deal more hope for justice and humanity in general than I do. I don't agree with it, but I respect your position.\n\n>But at the same time, I feel that well meaning white activists (as in the video) don't care to listen to minority voices \n\nYes, well-meaning white liberals with vague left-leaning sympathies are kind of embarrassing and harbor latent racist attitudes even as they rush in to \"help.\" In other news, sky is blue, etc.\n\n> I don't care to get into a lengthy Reddit argument today.\n\nI don't think we have enough disagreement worth arguing about tbh.", "Lol no, I certainly wasn’t asking for your permission for anything, much less disagreeing with Chomsky. He’s certainly celebrated, but also quite controversial and his views are the subject of much debate. My point was bringing into question the legitimacy of his sociopolitical opinions.\n\nWhether or not you or I agree with him, his hundreds of books and outstanding history in the field of science is pretty much unrelated to his sociopolitical commentary. You used this as a reason to accept his political views. Pretty much the entire field of economics disagrees with him; see Thomas Sowell and really anybody in the Adam Smith school of economics which dominates the modern understanding of wealth creation", "Because some of these government programs are offered only to black communities, as in Chicago where people like Bobby Rush have successfully lobbied for funds for specific neighborhoods. And I agree that many of these areas need better funding. But the spending choices are corrupt and have proven to not help the communities at all.\n\nBut sure u/hydlyde, keep using “racism” as a way to derail logical discussion on real solutions since youd rather not confront reality. And yes, echos of the past exist today. But slavery has almost nothing to do with the modern hardships of african americans. Why was african american unemployment vastly lower than today (almost nonexistent just before the Great Depression) after slavery but before now?", "My Grandpa was a mail carrier in Egypt and again when he came to the US. Mail carrier jobs in Egypt were dangerous (they would get robbed all the time, and if they were robbed they didn't get paid that day) and poorly compensated. \n\nAnd yeah I 100% agree with you, which is why I'm extremely for things like helping African Americans have easier access to school. Becoming educated is, in my eyes, worth much more than inheriting wealth from family. The majority of people that inherit wealth waste it all in a couple of generations, but if you are educated and raise your children well that can last forever. I think the most damaging thing this country did to African Americans was keeping them out of schools.", "> Whether or not you or I agree with him, his hundreds of books and outstanding history in the field of science is pretty much unrelated to his sociopolitical commentary.\n\nNo, as I said already, it is related to his equally prolific output on philosophy, politics and history. But that wasn't the point. I mean, okay, let's just assume they're separate. So what?\n\n>You used this as a reason to accept his political views. \n\nWow, that sure is news to me. Where the fuck did I do that? \n\n>Pretty much the entire field of economics disagrees with him; see Thomas Sowell and really anybody in the Adam Smith school of economics which dominates the modern understanding of wealth creation\n\nOne, no, he cites serious economists regularly -- at least, as serious as you can be in a field that squishy. Two, the field of economics, both the plain porridge-flavored neoclassical variety and the funnier, clownier ones, are basically the laughing stock of the social sciences. It's a really interesting history, too, how something that came out of moral philosophy with serious ambitions -- political economy -- gave up all its scientific pretenses and resigned itself to a narrow political planning discipline for orderly state capitalist mechanics of the status quo. \n\nEver since the social sciences were established on basically tearing political economy to pieces, it's been a drawn out comedy skit -- really worth looking into. Do you know of any discipline that had to make up its own fake Nobel prize in a mad scramble for legitimacy when Nobel and all his relatives made it explicitly clear that he thought they were a pack of cranks and wanted nothing to do with them?\n\nYou should actually read some Adam Smith, by the way, if you can't be fucked to read about him from a serious source, that does anything more than hagiography for a made up cartoon character. Clever guy. Blunt anti-capitalist.\n\nThomas Sowell... I mean, if you've got some time to kill, pull up a chair, and I'll tell you about the US \"libertarian\" movement. Again, not just a fraud, but probably the most darkly funny, cynical fraud in recent memory.\n\nAnyway, none of this has anything to do with the above -- it's just funny.", "I don’t mind „reparations“ if it’s invested in low income areas of all ethnicities. Due to history they disproportionately tend to be of African ethnicity. Cash payments are useless and for me this March give me the impression of a humiliation fetish. Exploiting them for money is like exploiting mentally unwell people through strong emotions.", "Being \"employed\" doesn't mean you have access to productive income that can create generational wealth. It's almost like once slavery ended, stuff like Jim Crow still existed and barred black folk in a lot of areas from certain professions and institutions. But yeah, it's welfare that caused their problems 🙄", "[Are they anti-vaccine?](https://blackhammer.org/2021/10/20/janky-jab-big-world-u-s-vaccine-failing-across-the-globe/) Is that the message of this?", "They want segregation now?", "Yeah I was being snarky haha ;)", "[F\\\\k California](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVNAUTaNj4)", "IDK what racially based climate change is, but I sure as hell know building a basketball court isn't the solution", "Do you have the reading comprehension of a slug?", "That’s not what they said at all, lol. Gentrification is different from just living somewhere.", "\"I'm offended for YOU!\" kind of people", "That statistic is out of context though. The economic benefit of raising the minimum wage will outlast any short-term shock in the labor market. Minimum wage used to be something that could support a family of 4, now it can't even cover rent.\n\nRaising the minimum wage is also the bare minimum effort thing we can do to help the working class. Minimum wage is inefficient at achieving what it is designed to do, it's much more effective to be a collective bargaining agreement between corporation and worker.", "I just realized my comment said “wrong” instead of “right” sorry about that. Just changed it.\n\nI disagree that the economic benefit of raising minimum wage will outlast any effect to the labor market. I wish it were that easy, but what about when it causes businesses to close because they can’t afford the minimum wage? This happens across the board when minimum wage is increased, especially with restaurants and bars (the most failed industry in the US)\n\nDo you agree that some minimum wage amount is too much? Statistics would suggest that minimum wage is a bad solution for a very real problem", "oi, such animosity. Not sure what's going on in your day that's making you so upset but consider this a hug from a friend.", "Yep", "Minimum wage is flawed because different industries have different labor with different value. In fact many countries with better social safety nets have no minimum wage at all, because workers have strong union protection. It's much better to let the workers in each industry democratically decide what a fair wage is, than have the government apply a blanket minimum wage.\n\nBut to be clear, had minimum wage kept up with productivity and inflation since 1980, it would be $22 /h. $15 an hour WAS the compromise. If a business can't afford to pay workers enough to live, they don't deserve to be in business.", "From my part, I care that people are free. I actually care about people, and I've learned the following: you can't help stupid people- you can only work to stop them and then only sometimes. \n \nLook at the permanent damage that's been done by stupid people. \n \n\nOne example is the destruction of the old stone carvings by religious extremists in the middle east. The millennia old statues were blown up by islamist supemists because of their religious beliefs. This concludes anything that may be learned from those statues forever. That's stupid.\n \nLook at the damage that's been done across America in the name of hate in the last couple of years. Very stupid. We have a real problem in the world because people just leave stupid people alone to be dangerous. We already tried racism, segregation, tyranny, slavery, and socialism and here we go again. So much destruction, so much needless death. All because we don't have a healthy -or acceptable permanent - way to stop stupid people. I can keep going, but the father I point at stupid the more likely stupid people will thrash around and try to break things they don't understand in a fit of rage.", "That’s all fine and fair, except when there isn’t enough businesses to give jobs due to minimum wage. In principle Im with you all the way, ideally minimum wage shouldnt be necessary at all. But if a business cant afford to pay min wage because margins are razor thin (as for pretty much all restaurants and bars - the backbone of many local economies), is it their fault?", "The one girl who said it was her first time volunteering? Not very well represented in the specifically \"white solidarity\" organization that is stated in the video and on their website works under the (black-led) African People’s Socialist Party leadership?", "Is that a serious question? Like this dude is a POS but it just seems disingenuous to act like people with darker skin haven’t been treated like shit for their skin color….or as if that fact has no bearing on why some people of color are “fixated with the amount of melanin in your skin”. Black people and just dark skinned people in general…are made to feel like they’d be prettier if they were a few shades lighter. Black women are still bleaching their skin. \n\nPeople like Gazi are grifters who take advantage of people of color who are frustrated with how they’ve been treated by society. That’s why cults are so successful…they pick their targets when they’re at their lowest, young and naive, or feeling lost and disconnected from society, because it’s easy to control people who feel like outcasts, especially when they’re angry and fed up.\n\nI’m a black woman who used to cry when my parents bought me black dolls. I was literally indoctrinated into reacting negatively at the sight of a doll that looked like my race. No this doesn’t mean that I or any other black person has the right to mistreat random white people on the basis of their skin tone…\n\nbut to answer your question, a lot of us are literally fixated on the amount of melanin in your skin, our skin, everyone’s skin…because a lot of us grew up being told to fixate on skin color before we could even understand the concept of race or racism.", "My cultists are being tossed in federal prison? Field trip to the Capitol? Huh?\n\nI am making fun of a qanon dipshit for fuck's sake, and you think I am on their side?\n\nI have no idea what point you are trying to make by just flat out lying like this. Who do you think my \"cult\" is?", "Why are 99% of the low income areas democrat and leftist strongholds.", "None of these political parties are good, if you support the left or right wing, you are a clueless enabler of tyrants, brainwashed into a false dichotomy, no better than any of the other brainwashed idiots, right or left." ]	435	videos	Uhuru March for Reparations
https://youtu.be/IHvLhviwK30	/r/videos/comments/qf0pff/last_night_jason_sudeikis_hosted_snl_which_means/	[ "God bless Jason Sudeikis’ knees. Dude still hoping into the screen like it was 2015.\nSketch doesnt feel right without Bill Hader though.", "Only thing missing is Bill Hader!! \n\nAlso for anyone not familiar here is a 1 of 3 of a nice compilation of these https://youtu.be/tInUTLxGIRk", "Kenan is God fucking awful. He must have some kompromat on the execs over there, because he is absolute garbage to stay on that show as long he has.", "Your frickin mother.", "Lol Kenan is amazing what you smokin", "Take off that hat!", "The fuck is this?", "He's got no range, at all. He is only ever the Baffled Black Dude or the Blubbering Fat Guy. He acts like he's still on All That putting on surprised faces for kids. His accents and impressions are all the same no matter who he's supposed to be. His delivery is always that same predictable cadence like he's reading a Lego pamphlet to a senile person.", "He's got no range, at all. He is only ever the Baffled Black Dude or the Blubbering Fat Guy. He acts like he's still on All That putting on surprised faces for kids. His accents and impressions are all the same no matter who he's supposed to be. His delivery is always that same predictable cadence like he's reading a Lego pamphlet to a senile person.", "My husband and I both ' oooooooweeee'd ' at the same time!", "That wasn't even slightly funny. What's up with that?", "https://youtu.be/oaRiOU5IiXw\n\nHow can you watch that and tell me Zach galifanakis riffing sexy flute in those pants while one on Kenan’s ridiculous faux talk show isn’t subtle comedic genius", "Well, that's Zach, not Kenan. Kenan literally does nothing while Zach does his dance thing, and isn't even on camera for half of it. And even then, it's just a dude in flared out pants and a wig while some other guy keeps saying \"oooooh weeeee. What's up with that?\". \n\nIt seems like the premise of the skit is to be as random as possible, but it moves like molasses and is incredibly monotonous. There's no actual dialog to build comedic tension. It's just \"look at this random thing for a minute\".", "Are you asking..... What's up with that?", "I wonder if Kenan had a role to play in this style of comedy that most SNL skits now conform to where a single comedic premise is repeated and riffed on over and over until the end of the skit with no real development or closure.", "Mirror for Canadians?", "There's dozens of us!!!", "This and the new Science Room sketches had me more excited than I probably should have been lol", "Here ya go eh? https://streamable.com/5nrsre", "There were some good ones, Jason Sudeikis is the man", "Bill Hader was there! Playing Lindsay Buckingham dressed up as Succession's Nicholas Braun. And what a great costume!", "It means this style of humor doesn't do it for you", "I cannot explain why I enjoy this sketch so much", "Wow Kenan looks super great! Looks like he's been taking care of himself.", "DOZENS!", "mirror\n\n1st half: https://streamable.com/09usz5\n2nd half: https://streamable.com/zbijzj", "Yeah the snl writing staff has been kind of meh for awhile now.", "Is this meant to be funny? Lots of garbage winking at the camera stuff.", "That's great! Sometimes my wife doesn't ' ooooowee' at all.", "What's it like to be dead inside.", "Yeah right? They didn't even say Bazinga once!", "It's a slow within a show duh", "TIL that not finding SNL funny means you're dead inside." ]	33	videos	Last night Jason Sudeikis hosted SNL which means we finally got yet another installment of Kenan’s “What’s up with That?”
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qf13ra/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qf13ra/deleted_by_user/	[ "This is amazing", "hey thanks!!", "Get ready to DIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/3b8yjVFCcpU	/r/videos/comments/qf1d2v/hand_vs_mousetrap/	[ "I don't know what I expected", "You're right! That is dumb crap.", "Well you suck", "You said it...not me", "Hurting yourself for attention is sad.", "It didnt hurt. Having it hit the palm dispersed the force over a greater surface, reducing the pain. Im not dumb enough to stick one finger in it." ]	6	videos	Hand vs Mousetrap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfg5qeK_mI	/r/videos/comments/qf1l7y/dunkey_revisiting_death_stranding/	[ "I’m beginning to think that anytime Dunkey dislikes a game he will eventually come around to like it. It’s pretty rare that someone will publicly change their opinion on something that a loud portion of the internet hates, so all the more respect to him.\n\nIt’s a shame so many people wrote it off without playing it. Its not for everyone but I absolutely loved it.\n\nEdit: Yes I did finish the video. He has played it 3 times and said he finds it fun. He still thinks a lot of the mechanics and story telling are broken but he says he had fun which is a massive step up from his other review.", "I feel like you and I watched two different videos. For about 8 minutes and 30 seconds he described what didn't work or what wasn't a unique part of the game. He does mention some fun he had walking around and enjoying the scenery, but it felt very minor compared to the rest.", "Since Dunkey is too much of an ass to not mention it, there are spoilers for the game in this video - just in case anyone else was wanting to get their first play through on the upcoming director's cut, spoiler free, don't watch this.", "yeah unfortunately its like this with a lot of his videos, Ive had multiple games spoiled by him.", "It's almost 2 years old. At what point is it not spoilers anymore? You could have said spoilers the 3rd time GTA 5 released because it could have been someone's first playthrough.", "Why watch?", "Did you watch the final seconds of this video?", "Is the Dunkey = ass pun intentional? Because it's good", ">It’s a shame so many people wrote it off without playing it.\n\nIt's a shitty game even Donkey himself says so at the end.", "Why does he talk like the bastard son of Gilbert Gottfried? This has to be the most annoying voice in the world", "whooosh", "No idea why you are being downvoted into the ground! You are absolutely right, that was as spoilerific as it gets and zero warning.\n\nIf you havent played this game and want to, do not watch this video.", "Did you actually watch the video? It's 8 minutes of him describing how it sucks.", "Why are you watching a video called 'Revisiting Death Stranding' if you're worried about spoilers? What expectation is there for a video to be spoiler free on the second time covering a 2 year old game?", "You only hate him because he's black", "He still played it 3 times. He enjoyed it despite him thinking parts of it were trash. That’s a big step up from saying he didn’t enjoy any part of it.", "Oh if he says it shitty it must be shitty. Since he didn’t say the same thing about RDR2 at first, Uncharted 4, Splatoon and Octopath.\n\nIt is sort of funny since unless you have actually played it and personally disliked it which is totally fine, that means you yourself just wrote it off due to what someone else said.", "It's a shitty boring game full of bugs. It was being advertised as this amazing game with the teasers - even Donkey mentions it guess why? I have no idea how some people love it but then again people enjoy buying DLC's every year for $60...", "All those games you mentioned have something in common -> ACTION \n\nPeople don't wanna come home after a hard day at work and play post man simulator. All the hate the game got at the time was justifiable but then you had the Kojima fanboys who went to great lenghts to try to convince us the game is some sort of a masterpiece", "I don’t see why you would never just give a spoiler alert. There is a lot of entertainment out there. Some people may have been too young to play or watch a thing or maybe they had to put it off for reasons. It’s not the hard to give a warning.\n\nThat being said if you are choosing a video that’s based off a particular piece of media then just assume it will have spoilers.", "I enjoyed Death Stranding immensely. If anything, Kojima brought some bangers such as [Sing to Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu3rO7xtf0c), [Ghost](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4YBB--6J4w), [Bottom of the Deep Blue Sea](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFEBriOa1x0), and [Ludens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUdtMBVQyEc) into my life.", "I mean, he went on an 8 minute rant about how things in the game are broken, but consider how much he has had to have played the game to go on said 8 minute rant (not to mention obtain all the footage). \n\nIt's like how you can tell the difference between someone who's never played League of Legends, and an addict who can't stop playing. Beneath everything there's a sincere attraction/fascination with the game itself.", "Dude fuck you I was only halfway through the Old Testament", "It’s not like I don’t like his videos, they just spoil main plot lines of games", "I would generally expect anything that doesnt mention spoilers to be spoiler free. Its just common curteousy to warn of spoilers. \\E: Ill add that a fair exception would be something titled like \"Lets talk about the ending of X\"\n\nIts entirely possible to talk about a game, even on a revisit, without spoilers. I clicked just out of curousity on how someones opinion might have changed (I dont know the creator, but I assume its a revisit for a reason). I thankfully have played the game thru, but if I hadnt this would have completed ruined it.", "So he still thinks the game is shit, just not as shit as he originally thought \n\nMakes sense", "did Kojima fuck your mom or something, lmao", "fun? docLeave", "Kojima's time was almost 20 years years ago, his last few mgs games have been more of a miss than a hit.", "You bring up an interesting point. I know if I played a game and disliked it that much at first, I would not have wanted to go back and try it again.", "I did exactly that and loved the game.\n\nA game can be fun without you murdering people in it every 15 seconds, surprisingly.", "> People don't wanna come home after a hard day at work and play post man simulator.\n\nExcept those that do. There's plenty of genres where action is not the point, and plenty of people who enjoy slow-paced gameplay.\n\nI don't know if I'd call the game a masterpiece myself, but I do appreciate it for being as experimental as it was for such a big budget game. The gameplay, IMO, was quite enjoyable even though it wasn't action-packed.", "Easy to see you have no idea what you’re talking about. 3, 4 and 5 have been more of a miss? V you could argue but 3? No words.", "MGS 3 came out 17 years ago\n\nlook what i wrote\n\n\n>Kojima's time was almost 20 years* years ago\n\n4 was so-so. 5 i don't even wanna talk about. [This guy says it as it is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuA9YRbq8f0)", "I agree, but at what point does it stop being the creators responsibility? If you have avoided spoilers for 2 years and then choose to watch a video about it thats on you IMO.", "Interestingly, and you may not have heard of this before, but there are actually a wide range of nuanced, complex opinions one can have on a piece of media besides simply \"this sucks\" or \"this is great\".", "Yeah it deserves to be called shitty. The amount of hype it garnered and all those stupid teasers that showed nothing but cutscenes... It deserved the thrashing it got.", "Imagine expecting the entire world to bend to your inability to screen for spoilers", "In the context of Dunkey's video, clearly he doesn't think it's that shitty. No one replays a (rather long) game three times that they think is complete shit. His opinion pretty clearly falls along the \"complex\" line of thought.", "If you are watching any video about something from years ago, assume there are spoilers. There. Now the internet is safe for you.", "The only thing I’m talking about is your comment about the last few MGS titles. Few is still least 3 so that would include 3. Also 4 was a fantastic game as well. Phantom Pain needed a little more time in the oven to fully flesh out the rest of the story but the gameplay was really fun.\n\nSo I don’t agree with you. Looking forward to whatever Kojima puts out next.", "Except Knack 2 baby!", "The read I got from it is the same read I've gotten from anyone who sat down and put some thought into it.\n\nIt's an ambitious, weird, sometimes clunky game with an interesting way to try to make you feel connected, and some of the more unique yet often jank as hell ideas we've seen in a while. It's a fascinating mess that is at once kinda fucking frustrating and annoying and at other times utterly enthralling. Which I guess balances it out to \"OK\"", "Bark!", "I've always hated spoiler warnings for things I know I am getting myself into. In regards to random threads that don't specify certain topics, then sure hopefully someone posts a spoiler warning in that thread if someone trys to fuck shit up randomly. Otherwise, no need for spoiler tags.", "Except for the time he got a shit ton of flak praising LoU2. Or when he praised GoW 2018. Or Uncharted. Or most of the games he reviews", "It sucks so much that replayed it 3 times, 2 years after it's release.\n\nWhen was the last time you played a shitty 30 hour game over 3 times?", "> It's a shitty boring game full of bugs.\n\nWhy would Dunkey play a shitty, boring game, full of bugs, 2 years after release 3 times? Mind you, each play through is 20-30 hours.", "To confirm what it is. And he does at the end.", "Actually he's a Mule and he is of Puerto Rican descent", ">He does mention some fun he had walking around and enjoying the scenery\n\nYeah but the thing is that's like 90% of the game. Death Stranding is a *long* video game. If he's finished it 3 times then he's certainly come around on it. If you enjoy the core gameplay loop of exploring/delivering packages/building community structures than all the bad stuff becomes more easily forgivable.", "Fetch quest: The game.", "Probably one of my favorites, tbh. The story was pure Kojima schlock, and all over the freaking place, but I really enjoyed the lore -- through I wish, similar to Dunkey, that it left more to the imagination. It's a big mess of a game, but pretty enjoyable if you're in the right frame of mind. \n\nThe game is indeed at its best when you're just relaxing and building up your paths through the world. I played it during the first lock down, and, man, for some reason, I just loved unwinding after work by delivering some mail and working on the world's infrastructure. \n\nI kind of equate it to a game like Minecraft or Factorio. A lot of the joy of the game is modifying the world to your needs. In Death Stranding's case, that means making traversing around the world easier. Once you've got your network of ziplines set up? Phew... very satisfying.", "SPOILERS", "A single playthrough is about 35-40 hours.\n\nHe could play *any* single game in the world and he chose to replay Death Stranding another two times. That isn't what someone who dislikes a game does. \n\n\"The game has some bugs, some mechanics are weird, too much information is presented, and the collision detection isn't perfect\" are all superfluous in the grand scheme of things when it comes to liking a game. \n\n>but it felt very minor compared to the rest.\n\nOn the contrary, having fun is what is most important and all that other stuff is minor. \n\nI've played plenty of games with absolutely god awful graphics, mechanics, dialogue, and control schemes that I absolutely love, as I am sure everyone else has. \n\nOblivion/Skyrim collectively look fucking terrible (mods don't help make them look not ugly), are home to an insane number of bugs, bombard you with info dumps, have some of the worst dialogue ever spoken, and it's faster to painstakingly ride your horse across a mountain range than it is to walk through it (mirroring Dunkeys complaint about cars/terrain). \n\nBut both games are absolutely wonderful and will provide hundreds of hours of fun.", "I feel like it's more of a \"There's a lot of sucky elements to it but parts of it are so fun I enjoy playing it regardless of its issues\"\n\nrather than a \"slightly less bad\" take", "I guess. But do you read movie reviews before you see a movie, just seems like you're putting yourself inline for a spoiler.", "🏅", "His original review of the game when it first came out is still one of my favourite videos of his. He perfectly put to voice every single issue I had with that game. The only difference is that I beat it once and then said \"never again\" but seeing this video makes me reconsider that.", "As someone who worked as a delivery guy in Seattle for 4 years, I really enjoyed Deathstranding. I could relate to it so much and made me feel a little bit seen by Kojima. However, the re-playability of this game is not great because of all the cutscenes and lack of end game content. Much like the unsustainability of being a delivery guy in Seattle lol", "Not disagreeing with you, but he does get paid money to play the game and make videos. He may have enjoyed playing it, or he may have known it would be a popular and easy video. Though I’m leaning more towards probably a combination of both", "I have 2000 hours into ark and I could easily go on an hour long rant about all the things wrong with the game. Shitty design decisions, bugs, numerous problems. I also don't recommend the game to anyone, because I put most of my time in while it was still being developed in the hopes that it would get better. But it didn't. Will I pick it up again? Probably for a few hours here and there. Would I ever recommend it to anyone? pretty much no, and if anyone asked me if it was a good game, i would say it isn't. It could have been, it had potential, but in the end, it wasn't.", "The guy you replied to is also making a common Dunkey joke.", "THE SEQUEL TO THE FIRST STRAND TYPE REVIEW!", "I would if I could make Youtube content out of it.", "I loved it. I loved the slow pace and the atmospheric feel.", "Bro, you really dying on the hill of \"I can't warn others who might care\"", "[Without You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3tONXUvz9E)", "I love that bark", "imagine not posting the dope music video for [Ludens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9wvTuDC-H0).", "There's a point where games or movies cross that shit barrier into being entertaining because they are shit. QWOP being a prime example.", "Exposition dumps and piling on irrelevant information seem to be the standard storytelling methods in a lot of Japanese videogames.", "I got [Pop Virus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQFQKgSPn74) stuck in my head for a like a week straight. Fitting name for that song.", "Dunkey’s strand-type reviews need to get better if he ever wants to reclaim the top score on Bowsers big bean burrito.", "Man I was tearing up when \"I'll keep coming\" played. \n\nJust walking along a river after a an impactful cutscene and that song starts playing. It's one of the moments that is cemented in my mind when I think about this game.", "His original review didn't seem fair to me. I remember that it annoyed me at the time. Even though he still dislikes the game, this review is fair and square.\n\nIt's almost like he felt bad for the original one", "The thing for me is that this is one of the most creative games I've ever seen. Just totally out of left field. \n\nI want to encourage that kind of experimentation in gaming, so I bought it. Was it the best game ever made? No. But it was still entertaining", "His first video was basically just him bitching about every facet of the game while showing disingenuous clips to back it up. Throw in just casually spoiling the whole game and it I was pretty disappointed in his stance on the game. I get that Dunkey is an entertainment personality first and foremost but a lot of people take his reviews seriously despite that. If you watched his first video and your take away was \"wow death stranding is dog shit!\" you got bamboozled.\n\nSo I'm glad he revisited it and despite not really knowing why, and still being disingenuous about the story/gameplay issues, has come to accept that he may in fact like the game. If you want a good video of Death Stranding from a reviewer who's probably one of the best, if not the most long winded, in the industry [check out Tim Roger's review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHUY-nVXKU).", "It made me realize Dunkey is not a reviewer, and should not be taken seriously at all when it comes to forming your own opinions on a game. Primarily because he will always prioritize being entertaining/funny over being accurate. For example: all the scenes in this and the other review where he purposely fucks up the game or makes it glitch out etc. \n\nSo I like his content, but his reviews I take with a massive grain of salt.", "> RDR2 \n\n> action \n\nLUL, that game is slower than death stranding", "Freddy got fingered is another example.", "Bruce Willis was dead all the time.", "Shut the fuck up donut.", "ain't just the games...", "Fuck Yeah Ark. Fuck Ark.", "Claude kills his girlfriend in GTA 3. Sorry brother.", "Dude what Freddy Got Fingered is a masterpiece", "You dont play a game you think is shit 3 times.", "Regardless of his review, I fucking loved the game. First game I’ve completed since GTA 5 - was an awesome escape from a really shit time I was going through.", "He’s played LOL, so that’s not true at all", "Eh, I disagree. Who should I take seriously? IGN?", "Yeah, but none of his fans were asking for another Death Stranding video, and his base would've eaten up anything he put out in place of this one, so it was clearly just personal preference that he went back to it.", "I brought you jewels Betty.", "If you want a real answer, find a reviewer who has similar tastes to you. Whose reviews for games you like and dislike align to your own. That way, when they come out with new reviews for games you can be fairly sure you'll feel a similar way, so you know whether you'd like them or not.\n\nGames are subjective, you can't just have one person put a number on a game and expect that everybody else will feel the same way.", "That's dunkey for me, I don't know why he can't be taken as a \"serious reviewer whatsoever\" or whatever. My views do mostly align with him. Hense me disagreeing and snarkily asking if IGN can be \"taken seriously\" lol", "Oh, yeah, that's a totally valid point then.\n\nI personally stopped taking Dunkey's reviews seriously when it dawned on me that we enjoy completely the opposite things, but I'd never make such a blanket statement that his reviews aren't appropriate for anybody at all.", "I recently got around to playing Death Stranding and I absolutely loved it. Intriguing world and setting and the gameplay of delivering and connecting everywhere was really satisfying. One of my favorite games I played this year for sure. Honestly I never had any of the balance/getting stuck/tripping over everything issues that seem to be highlighted in reviews. Idk if I just wasn't getting as crazy with my hauls or what but it all seemed smooth to me aside from the times where I know I made a mistake and fell off something because I wasn't paying attention.", "I'd just watch some gameplay. I wouldn't trust anyone to tell me if I'd like a game.", "Why are you on this thread then? You don't watch or like dunkey? He is a great game reviewer, I don't know what any of you are on about. If you can't find any reviewers that align with your taste that's all you.", "Because I like Dunkey. Sorry if you disagree with me liking him and not caring about reviews. You do know 95% of his content is not reviews don't you? Fuck outta here.", "Aight, didn't mean to get heated that's totally a fair view. In my mind his content is definitely at least in the style of a \"review\" (in his videos about new games at least). And in his [game critics](https://youtu.be/lG2dXobAXLI) video he talks about the importance of finding a critic that aligns with your views.\n\n\nHe talks about how it's okay for any reviewer to have a negative take on a popular game if it's just not their thing. And in addition he talked on why he \"doesn't just review the games he likes\" because a full range of genres better represents where his general preference lies, which should be in the consideration of the viewer. I'm paraphrasing terribly, but I agree with him, and I genuinely don't understand how his content being comedic effects all that. He is a game reviewer, just like Fantano is a music reviewer, but neither could ever be the ambassador of gaming or music. They are just people. For me, there's games dunky reviews negatively that i'll still be interested to try, and vice versa. I guess thats what I look for in game reviewers, as long as their take is unbiased and consistant it can be a helpful tool.\n\n\nSounds like we may agree though! Didn't mean to come at ya! Have a good night/ day bud" ]	103	videos	Dunkey: Revisiting Death Stranding
https://youtu.be/857Rv5RJKgs	/r/videos/comments/qf1mfq/why_pink_floyd_split_up_explained_in_7_seconds/	[ "Because they realized they’re the most boring band in history.", "Selling 250 million plus albums is pretty good for a boring band. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.", "Riiiight... an experimental band doing things few people had done before and bringing it to a broader audience than ever is the most boring band ever. Not, like, One Direction or something, Pink Floyd.", "lol I didn’t know there were only two options for music", "They were born during an era of 'studio albums'. Bands that did this ( and there were a lot) made their music in the recording studio and didn't play live on stage or pursue a 'popular' style or sound. Because their music was relatively 'niche' their songs rarely made it to pop music countdown lists like the Top 40, eg.", "That’s fine. My opinion isn’t for everyone. I like seeing how it pisses everyone off that I don’t them. Notice how I didn’t trash their musical talent, just that I find them incredibly boring. Most people that are upset are just upset that I don’t like their dad’s favorite band to do drugs to.", "Please tell me what you consider not boring for reference.", "You got personality issues if being a troll is the only thing you do on the internet.", "Why is leaving my opinion considered to be a troll. Everyone is free to like what they like and if they do like it, why does my opinion matter to them? Why are only positive comments allowed about something? Why can’t I make a joke about how I think they’re boring as fuck? I don’t get all butt hurt and call people trolls when they disagree with what I like.", "Hey watch out. You’re going to make someone cry in here with your difference of opinion!!", "And nickelback isn’t nearly as bad as people like to say it is.", "I honestly don’t view this as trolling. I don’t troll. Look at my comment history and you’ll see that I don’t. I was trying to commiserate with others that also do not like the band. That’s all.", "They still better than uncle joes scratch band that came together 20 years ago in high school and play in the garage every saturday night.", "How is saying that they’re boring as fuck trolling? Because I have a difference of opinion? Since when am I only allowed to comment on things I like? Why can I not commiserate with others that don’t like the band? What kind of weak ass bullshit is that? You don’t like my opinion and it doesn’t fit your views so you automatically start calling me a troll? Don’t be so sensitive and don’t care so much about someone else’s opinion about a band that couldn’t give two shits about you.", "I never heard of screwing anybody buy I have heard that Roger Waters made a demo of The Wall that was so complete there was no room for anybody else to fit in. The 2 songs Gilmour did have a big part in changing went on to be the hit singles.", "I dunno man. I really like all eras and genres. Neil Young, CCR, George Clinton and the Parliament of Funk, anything that has tons of vocal harmonies, Cory Wong, Vulfpeck, Earth Wind and Fire, tons of others I can’t think of right now.", "Isn’t Roger known to be quite difficult to work with?", "This would be news to me. Are you sure you're not confusing the two?", "You have an interesting personal opinion. I disagree with it entirely and fail to understand what makes you think that way, but I respect your right to think it.", "Thanks man. Much respect", "You'll upset the neckbeards saying stuff like that!", "> I don’t troll.\n\n> I like seeing how it pisses everyone off that I don’t them. \n\nso edgy", "How is this not an example of Waters being a dick? Lol", "Pink Floyd is anything but boring. It sounds like you might have a short attention span.", "I don’t post to piss people off. If my opinion about a band from decades ago pisses people off, yeah I find entertainment in that", "And I’m glad you enjoy them, more power to you. I like how people attack character of people over an opinion of a band. Are we in middle school?", "who's an edgy boy? you are. such an edgy boy.", "lol ok man", "Pink Floyd was very much a live band. They had great studio albums, to be sure. But Pink Floyd is revered as a great live band. Look into them at Knebworth, Pompeii, Venice. Delicate Sound of Thunder. Lots of later issues of live recordings. Ummagumma has some live tracks.", "Gilmore wanted to do radio pop songs and Waters wrote epics. Everything that made Pink Floyd what it is came from Waters. Meanwhile Gilmore plays reggae versions of their songs.\n\n\"That's my pig up there.\" --Roger Waters.\n\nSort of like people thinking Genesis is better without Peter Gabriel.", "There's only one \"most boring band ever\". You think it's Pink Floyd and I pointed out you were obviously wrong and proposed a better candidate. \n\nWhy do I need to catch you up when you've been part of the whole conversation?", "Lol. Age of idiocy because people personally disagree with you?\n\nPink Floyd has been my favorite band since I was five and I used to listen to my father's vinyl albums in the living room. I've consumed a lot of articles and books on them, was lucky enough to see Roger Waters live before Covid and look forward to his \"memoir\" that will be coming out.\n\nThat being said, they're all a bunch of self absorbed wankers and I wouldn't trust what any of them have to say about each other. Roger is a complete toolbag. It says a lot that the rest of the band stayed together when they gave him the boot. (although when Waters had fired Wright and they brought him back, he came back as a paid studio musician and not a bandmate) Of course, the music never hit quite the same after Roger. But let's not gloss over the Final Cut. I personally enjoy it but for a PF album it fucken sucked. \n\nRoger was the creative mind behind the band, David Gilmour was the solid musician. Mason's drumming isn't technical but it is uniquely him, and Wright was just a phenomenal pianist. All spoon-in-mouth self absorbed wankers.", "Who said Pink Floyd is better without Roger? You're making shit up." ]	33	videos	Why Pink Floyd split up explained in 7 seconds
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qf226n/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qf226n/deleted_by_user/	[ "I'm continually amazed at the number of people who can't construct a simple grammatically-correct sentence", "what, you think op's stinky grammar are bad?", "I find that if I read it in the voice of Gollum then it sounds just fine", "beautiful", "An I step on a eye!", "If we're going to get all nit-picky with grammar, shouldn't there be a comma between simple and grammatically-correct as well as a period in your own sentence?", "If anyone actually wanted to know- burgers. Burning flesh smells like burgers on the grill.", "Wonder who did it first wonder showzen or American dad" ]	8	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/1XkPeN3AWIE	/r/videos/comments/qf25nw/the_bowerbirds_grand_performance_a_weird_bird_in/	[ "Ben is a hoe.", "That bird is the best dancer for trance music! I guess he knows a lot about MDMA or LSD. Really high level!", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1R6DB8Va6o", "The birds face when he realizes the cock-block has entered. So relatable", "C'mon becky, lemme smash", "Humans are animals too. I was watching this thinking \"man, that's really weird\" and then I remembered that _Jersey Shore_ was a thing.", "Whatever the fuck this was, I shouldn't have been watching it on full blast at 2 am because I'm 100% sure my neighbors think I'm a weirdo now.", "\"Wait... Aww... Shhhhiiiiit.... Gerald! WTF, MAN!?\"" ]	8	videos	The Bowerbird's Grand Performance! A weird bird in so many ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_FiT3hnGU	/r/videos/comments/qf2fmt/make_this_the_most_disliked_video_ever/	[ "A video of your WWE game? People have to actually care about the subject matter in order to form an emotional response.", "You don’t care about me putting an 85 year old man in a ring for a wrestling match for my own and everybody else amusement???", "So dislike the video 🤯", "Tried to figure out what I was watching by checking OP's profile. Ended up more confused than ever after reading the obsessive ramblings of a religious zealot.", "Thank you", "You're not even good at being bad", "Yes yes thank you please dislike the video.", "Isn’t this a video game clip?", "No", " Yea", "You want to pad my stats…. Umm isn’t that a little personal…", "But you dislike it that’s the point! Tuh", "I have always been really angry at how Mario and Luigi were forced into the slave labor of doing nothing but saving the princess. Did they ever have children? No. Did they get to hang out at the pizza shop and drink coffee with their fiends? No. Doesn’t that bother you?", "No", "Of course! Let’s make a YouTube video about it", "Are you not not entertained?" ]	16	videos	Make this the most disliked video ever
https://youtu.be/9ukKEec_LsI	/r/videos/comments/qf2o87/a_florida_sheriffs_brief_but_spectacular_take_on/	[ "Ron DeSantis continues to defund mental health facilities and programs just as the other GOP prick\nbefore him, Rick Scott, did.\n\nMind you, they also continue to lie about being for the cops. They’re not. Jails are not for the mentally ill.", "did I hear right that people have been sitting for 5 years waiting for trial?", "It's weird seeing a thoughtful sheriff.", "I’m a nurse, worked at a county jail for several years. It really was more of a detox center and mental health facility. I have stories for days from there, AMA, lol", "Yes you did and no I don't know how this doesn't clash with the whole \"speedy trial\" thing that I thought was a part of the US Constitution.", "Well the scenario is adversely affecting him", "I've heard that many mental health facilities drug up their patients which is also an issue.", "Oh the trial will be speedy, you just will wait a while to get one.", "You can waive your right to a speedy trial. I've heard public defenders often advise people to waive this right so they can properly prepare their defense, couple that with public defenders being incredibly overworked and you can get very long wait times.", "Backlog. There are an assload of cases and not enough people to cover them all. That's one reason why plea deals are so popular: it gets cases out the door faster.", "In non-Corona times, you can always re-demand speedy trial at any time. I used to waive when I first got a case, then prep it for trial quickly, then file a demand. Your case then had to be tried within 60 days - or at least a jury had to be empaneled. There are always ways for the state to get around speedy whether it’s natural speedy or on demand. \n\nNow with Corona, at least in Florida, speedy trial rights haven’t existed since March 2020. The Florida Supreme Court did away with it.", "I'm a clinical psychologist who started his career working with prisoners and parolees with serious mental illness. I love that there are smart people in positions like this who can grasp the issue. It all comes down to funding, staffing, and training in the criminal justice system and mental health services provided by state and local governments.", "Also, many many state legislators, who set the budget/funding for public defenders and trial courts often deliberately underfund those so people with means will pay extra to get the defense attorney vs the free defender.", "This is because the American justice system is designed to be punitive rather than rehabilitative.\n\nThis is, of course, not a good thing.\n\nYou'd think all the \"law and order\" types would instead support a system that aims to turn criminals into productive members of society, but nope. They prefer a system that only makes them worse.\n\nBecause the reality is, they don't care about better society. They like the cruelty of punishing people.", "So, I say this for years and people hate me for saying it, but a county sheriff says it in florida says it and reddit lights up with love? I agree with what he's saying but I don't understand why he gets all these imaginary internet good credit points for saying this?\n\n(edit: I'm not sure why I'm getting down votes for this, make it make sense!)", "Total bullshit. Nobody believes that unless they themselves are mentally challenged.\n\nPeople who think themselves the \"only compassionate ones\" are the same people who shut down the mental health facilities, believing them to be more harmful than beneficial. Abuse has happened a lot at these places in the past, but instead of fixing the problem they just threw out the baby with that bath water.", "\\> In non-Corona times, you can always re-demand speedy trial at any time.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThis reads differently before it becomes apparent you're an attorney.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nLike, you're some kind of recidivist who's familiar enough with the system to play the bureaucratic angles but gets caught doing crimes kind of a lot.", "I was a public defender for 8 years before I recently became a judge. I like to think I know what I’m talking about.", "The deinstitutionalization of the US mental health system in the 70s was one of the most well intentioned, poorly thought out things we've done as a country. We effectively shifted the care of the severe persistent mental illness population from long term mental hospitals (which had their own set of problems) directly to jail. We did so in the hope that we could effectively cure profound mental illness whereas in reality our treatments have stayed similar for years. Even with the lofty goal of bringing people who are chronically mental ill back into society functionally, we don't have the social support system to utilize our most effective treatment options (ECT and clozapine). \n\n I'm not saying that this population deserves the lesser of two evils, we as a society owe them better than that, but I think we took an optimistic and well intentioned step in the wrong direction.", "they are not pro-cop they are pro-oppression. Cops are just a handy way to do that", "You mean Reagan? Carter and the Dems funded the system like never before, then Reagan took that money out and everything else that has gone into it. And the GOP have been cutting mental health out at the state level ever sense. \n\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental\\_Health\\_Systems\\_Act\\_of\\_1980#:\\~:text=The%20Mental%20Health%20Systems%20Act,in%20mental%20health%20care%20policy.", "That was the PR line that Reagan the GOP used to cut all the funding. It's amazing that kind of 'this is what mental health facilities are all like' thing is still going around.", "Could not agree more. I think mental health instutution reform should never have been a complete disbanding, but instead a shift towards rehabilitation and management instead of incapacitation. \n\nThe homelessness crisis in the US would be a fraction of what it currently is if we kept these facilities around and well funded.", "Would have worked a lot better if then in the early 80s Reagan and the GOP didn't cut all the funding and repeal the law leaving not federal or local facilities.", "When unpopular figures say popular things, people generally credit them for it. It’s usually the opposite that people make excuses for. \n\nReddit similarly praised Trump for, among other things, allowing dying patients to receive experimental drugs.", "Why did he clap?", " ‘But’. Lol", "Is the county sheriff an unpopular figure?", "Good fucking luck getting the Florida legislature to fund appropriate care for the mentally ill. We can barely get it done in blue states.\n\nIt's wonderful that he understands the issues. Unfortunately politics is bigger and more powerful and more black-and-white than those who understand the nuances.", "If you have a very good lawyer the first thing you do is waive that right.\n\nIf you have a public defender you will be told to waive that right.\n\nIf you have a mediocre/bad attorney they won't have you waive that right and you will be railroaded into a bad outcome.\n\nYou do not want to rush to trial, you want a chance for your good lawyer to go through as many motion hearings as possible, also you might get lucky and have the prosecutor change to a more amiable one, or have the mayor/DA not be up for re-election so tells his prosecutors to do a good job instead of getting as many people as possible put in jail to prove they are \"tough on crime.\"\n\n[edit to add: If you have a public defender.. you are pretty much screwed, sorry.]", "If they cared about the police at all they would be funding the shit out of mental health treatments.", "Sheriff's and Sheriff offices don't generally have a great reputation. In Texas Sheriff are feared way more than regular police.", "Yeah, I'm from Texas. When we call 911 the police/sheriff/constable/fire department all take an hour to show up because they're always on the other side of the county at the time of the emergency (usually they're busy shooting the knee caps off a black guy for jaywalking or doing something equally as extreme). They also blast walker Texas ranger out of the TV all the time like they're celebrating law enforcement even though they are awful. I don't understand why when the sheriff in Florida says this he gets 5k+ likes on YouTube but when I say it at the dinner table or at work people get angry at me and tell me that while I'm right they hate me for being right and wish I was dead.\n\nWhy is it that the sheriff who is generally unpopular gets bonus points for saying something correct but when I am generally unpopular I get angry glares and death threats for saying the exact same thing that's generally correct? It doesn't make sense to me.", "I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it depends on the crowd you're saying it to.", "That may be, but I dunno... I think people just don't make any sense in general.", "We have some decent ones here in alligator land. Got a few amusing hardasses too. Polk Countys sheriff was doing a press conference about a police related shooting, where the suspect litteraly pulled a gun on the cops and a reporter asked some dipshit question like \"why didn't they just talk to him\" or something equally stupid to which he replied (along the lines) \"if you pull a gun on a cop you will get fucking shot to death\". I found it hilarious that anyone would even question the shooting of an armed suspect who was directly threatening law enforcement. I mean fuck, this is Florida, you pull a gun on anyone and odds are good your ass is getting shot by them.", "Moments like this bring warmth to my cold, attorney heart.", "Over time I’ve come around to the idea that there are some people who need long term care. Our most effective treatment for chronic psychosis, clozapine, is typically only as effective if initiated within 3 years. Our entire system is set up to prevent that from happening. We catch people too late and it isn’t the personal responsibility of those patients to suffer their entire lives without adequate resources because we as a society have failed them.", "Well…it’s more nuanced than that, but what you speak of is definitely a problem. The inmates at the county jail I worked at were given quite a lot of opportunities for ingratiating into the community well. We had a pretty damn good transition plan for opiate and alcohol addicts, we would release them from jail and take them straight to a treatment center, inpatient or outpatient (outpatient had more spots of course). We had daily speakers and teachers that came in and gave classes or just spoke with the inmates about stabilizing their lives and how/where to seek career or just job opportunities while having a rap sheet-which I think really holds back some folks that just had a few years of poor decisions or self destructive behavior. \n\nThere is a portion, a sizable portion, that just will not try to curb their behavior, even when we threw all the resources we had, case managers, transition planners, drug treatment, housing, you name it, we’d try our honest best. I see a lot of these folks in the hospital I work at just down the road now, and it gets to a point where we’re just throwing so many resources and very thin financing at someone who is just not going to get out of their rut. Now, you could argue that it is due to the justice, or some other system, but it starts at birth. These people weren’t wanted, forgotten by their parents, were not able to build trusting relationships when it mattered most, and it was just all downhill from there. \n\nWe can point the finger at a lot of systemic issues, but responsible parenting is the main one. You do get people who had good folks and they just fall off the wagon, but so so so many people I’d talk to just had heartbreakingly sad stories about their childhoods. We just need to take raising children so much more seriously, take the screens away and actively engage with them a lot more than we do, in America at least. Anyways, got off topic there a bit!", "I think it had to do with that special segment that news station does. or it was a mosquito.", "It’s a sound sync thing, a clap slate. I think they included it as a little making-of flavor, but it’s definitely a kind of jarring editorial choice.", "Right? What's funny is this is the meaning of \"defund the police.\" The idea is we transfer funding away from already overworked police departments and jails who are not adequately equipped to handle drug addiction and mental health. Doing so would help the police, the jails, and the patients.\n\nBut instead we're arguing about how liberals made the cops feelings hurt.", "Unless they profit from it and they do and they will keep it like that.", "Yeah this also happened when asked about why the SWAT team shot at a suspect 110 times, hitting him with 68 rounds.\n\nPolk County Sheriff Grady Judd was quoted as saying, “I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that’s all the ammunition they had.”\n\nHe is crazy, but some people absolutely love him and his no BS attitude.", "It was supposed to be, and residential treatment facilities that are actually part of the surrounding community work incredibly well. The problem wasn’t that we didn’t have a plan, it’s that the plan get defunded almost before it got off the ground. The Regan administration gutted finding for mental healthcare, along with dozens of other programs that assisted the poor and those in need, leaving it largely to the states to pick up the slack. Some states managed to do so, but many had neither the political will nor the budget to do so.", "WTF was up with that clap?", "I'll gladly sit my ass in jail and watch my world crumble before I plead guilty/similar to anything I'm not guilty of or have a reasonable defense against.", "The \"toughest\" sheriff he takes a jab at in the end of the video has got to be Grady Judd...the sheriff of Polk county, or the little slice of heaven that I call home.\n\nWe're also called the meth capital of the world, but let's not talk about that.", "That's a bingo!", "conservatives would find a way to poke holes in the narrative no matter what the slogan is.", "its for sound sync. its essentially the same purpose of those clapperboards you see when the film crew says \"action\". you just line up the video with the spot where you see the audio clipped from the loud sudden clap. i think it was left in the final video to play like a behind the scenes shot you see in blooper reels but the general audience will just assume he clapped for no reason.", "Mentally ill, they can't go to trial until they're deemed competent to stand trial.\n\nWas in court once and there was a guy who'd been in jail for 20+ years. When he first started talking he sounded normal, then eventually he started talking about guards owing him thousands of dollars and some other weird stuff you knew wasn't real. He could've served his sentence by then but he wasn't mentally competent enough to understand what was going on.", "Clap sync for audio & video, ideally it's supposed to be edited out but i guess the AV club volunteer got sloppy.", "this was stupid", "Lol ECT", "People with mental illness get pushed to oneside", "I’d vote for him", "It works wonders for the severely mentally ill.", "Don't forget about the Bush Jr era of cuts. The era when many of the last places got shut down and is the reason why we have the current homeless problem", "Save a nickle to spend a dollar. The costs are greater NOT caring for these people.", "Dude is the image of Aaron Sorkin.", "I think you mean the 80s", "I thought he was talking about Joe Arpaio, king of the pink-pajama tent cities in AZ. Also a dirtbag who just wants to cram as many people into the prison industrial complex as possible.", "he sounds like one of the very few americans that isn't ignorant, arrogant, egotistical or full of himself like the rest of his kind, Quite respectable actually, especially coming from someone such as myself with mild aspergers", "Make this guy the govenor!", "Question. What happens if they do get sentenced to like 3 years and already been sitting for 5 years? Will they get released and financially compensated?", "110 rounds is roughly 3.7 Ar15 mags, so it's really not that out of the question to have swat fire off that many. That being said, Polk County is crazy in general, I try to avoid it.", "ECT is practically magic and there is a mountain of evidence to support it", "I disagree. The idea was \"let's start treating people so they're cured and let them live their lives outside of the hospital\" that is, to me, a great intention and should be the goal for most in the mental health system. Keep in mind that this was the era where people were being held [without actual symptoms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment), there was a Kennedy hospitalized for years and forced to get a lobotomy, and we just invented second generation antipsychotics which promised to cure these illnesses altogether. It was a lofty, idealistic, and short sighted goal, but I do believe it was well intentioned.", "[Rosenhan experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment) \n \n >The Rosenhan experiment or Thud experiment was an experiment conducted to determine the validity of psychiatric diagnosis. The participants feigned hallucinations to enter psychiatric hospitals but acted normally afterwards. They were diagnosed with psychiatric disorders and were given antipsychotic medication. The study was conducted by psychologist David Rosenhan, a Stanford University professor, and published by the journal Science in 1973 under the title \"On Being Sane in Insane Places\".\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "There's plenty of us who are normal rational people. Stop generalizing people, you sound kind of ignorant, arrogant, and a bit egotistical when you do.", "Watch the end of the video, it shows other people doing \"brief but spectacular\" segments and they're all doing the same clap, it's probably just part of the segment's gimmick.", "Well aren't you a jack ass, funny farners defeated you", "They don't represent surplus labor.", "This is typical republican behavior. Most of the wealthy would never need a mental institution, and if they did they could afford to pay for it. Hence, cut public funding of these places to reduce taxes. The same has been happening to our infrastructure for years.", "No, you actually remained on topic more than most opinions I've seen on here. It usually devolves into some anti police rhetoric rant, but you prove yet again that the more nuanced and thought-out position holds the most water (to me, anyway).\n\nIt does start with home life. When I see someone equally holding parents accountable as they do our criminal justice system, I've found an intelligent person.", "You kinda paint a big bullseye for them on where they should aim when you select \"Defund the Police\" as your slogan though lol", "My county used to wear that crown back in the day. Enjoy", "You’re confused why you, random guy on the internet, aren’t as interesting to redditors as an elected official with years of highly visible job experience?", ">The Florida Supreme Court did away with it.\n\nCan they do that? As far as I was aware, the right to a speedy trial was a US Constitutional right, and I know Governors have emergency powers, but do state supreme courts have any authority to curtail the US constitution during emergencies?", "Maybe Sheriff Wayne Ivey. That guy is a real piece of work.", "Some asylums were barbaric. So the idea was to shut them down so they wouldn’t hurt anyone anymore. That ended up putting seriously sick people back on the street with no support whatsoever.", "Then you need to come up with a better phrase. Because this is what people meant back in the day by defunding insane asylums.", "What a great man. So many bad apples in law enforcement but this guy is great", "That entire campaign was idiotic. The campaign should have just been to increase mental health response funding.", "It doesn't help the media for the past 70 years have constantly portrayed Asylums as awful. A lot of them were-mind you, but the over-exaggerations have poisoned the idea of re-instituting some forms of Asylum.", "Yup. They had ammunition, they just chose to magdump on the dirt hill rather than the actual target. Idiots.", "This is what happens when a justice system is bogged down with hundreds of thousands of non-violent drug offenses.", "it may be their gimmick to show it but it's definitely a sound sync. most media without high production value use claps instead of clapperboards.", "Funniest experience with an inmate?", "Non-mandatory rehabilitation isn't an option for the vast majority of homeless people. Hell, in my city you can't get most of them to sleep in a free, safe shelter because there's a curfew. Most homeless people are their own worst enemies and it's sad but that's what keeps them from getting effective treatment.", "Guy is absolute trash and everyone eats it up where I live. More concerned about being buddy buddy with Desantis and getting himself on TV then he is about solving any actual issues.", "The type of institutionalization I’m speaking of allowed for mandatory commits so long as due process was given.", "There not being enough people to handle the cases is the state's problem. That doesn't give them the right to hold a person for an unreasonably long time", "So true. And it’s bad for everyone. Take a person who is unstable enough to commit a crime, and our reaction is to punish them by making them even more unstable and in many cases more violent by exposing them to all sorts of trauma in the prison system, then let them back into society once they’re more hardened, angry, and mentally fucked up. Absolutely no one benefits from this. Our prison system is just a boot camp for creating more dangerous criminals and more suffering in society.", "We used to have mental health facilities instead of prison. But the ACLU sued the government over this and the SCOTUS agreed with the ACLU that putting people in mental facilities was a violation of their rights. So here we are putting them in prisons because we're not allowed to put them in mental health facilities against their will. \n\n\nYou can't have it both ways. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If we overturned the SCOTUS, then we would be back to arguing that it's unfair to put them in mental health facilities. Because you can't have it both ways.", "Here is the reason. Not about lofty goals of reintegration and rehabilitation, it was just too get them damn slackers off the public teat. Besides we were allowing hardened criminals to hide behind mental illness. Those bastards, which were all the people in mental hospital, were totally just fine and taking advantage of our goodness, mercy, but more importantly, public funds that were better in the millionaires pockets.", "I went in with completely preconceived ideas on what I was going to hear. I am sorry.", "It does clash but the judge will also take this into account during sentencing. Judges usually count time served in jail as part of the sentence so if your time in jail exceeds your sentence you can be released. I don't know if it's guaranteed though.", "Yeah that's who I was thinking too. Fuck Joe Arpaio. Just an absolutely evil, despicable disgrace of a human being.", "I’m not aware of any challenges to the administrative orders, but what the FL SC did was to revoke our Florida rules of procedure speedy trial because of ongoing emergency (pandemic, no jurors to hear cases, etc). I’m not aware of any federal challenges, and our Florida state rules are certainly rooted in the US Constitution. I believe they’re trying to phase back in natural speedy beginning Jan 2022. As far as I know, demands remain unavailable under the Admin Orders which keep coming out. I now sit in family law so I’m a little out of the loop. It was incredibly frustrating being a public defender and consistently having to tell my incarcerated clients “sorry there are no trials and won’t be for the foreseeable future. You just sit tight in jail though.” \n\nOn the plus side, judges were very liberal with reducing/granting bonds and getting people out of jail. The jail Covid cases were out of control at one point. Several of my clients got Covid multiple times in the jail in spring 2020. That was actually how I first realized it was possible to be re-infected with Covid a second time, while the CDC was still hemming and hawing over whether that was a thing.", "I will add there have been some interesting challenges to juvenile trials proceeding virtually via zoom. Various PDO have raised confrontation clause challenges to criminal zoom trials with no success thus far. Our local appellate courts just say “waaaah the pandemic makes life impossible” and everyone has Carte Blanche to deny due process to the accused.", "What's the longest you've been held somewhere that you can't leave?", "What a shithole country .", "It goes further. \n\nIn the bad old days there was incentive for someone who had issues that were treatable to work on their situation. Being told to shape up or get institutionalized is a very real motivation. I'm not a professional in the field so I can't give the answers but I can go by what I see day to day. Many people who can be worked with don't bother because the incentive to get treated is not there.", "my bro is going into his 5th year", "Thank you PBS NewsHour for making this. Keep spreading the truth.", "Exactly. My mom worked for a year in mental asylum in the 60s and she has some horror stories about the way people were treated. Labotomys for people who didn't need them, being heavily dosed with drugs for years so there was no way to even tell what someone's mental condition really was, ect. They got ride of a very problematic system and replaced it with nothing.", "Be prepared for an onslaught of negative media surrounding Florida and specifically, as this video does, calling out the governor, if not by name.", "That's my sheriff! He has been since I was a kid and I've never heard or seen one bad thing about him. What a guy.", "I'm confused as to why a good idea isn't always a good idea regardless of the source of the idea.", "Pulled a rolled up banana peel from a guys urethra. That was interesting and the guards always smile when they reminded me of that, lol. \n\nAlso being the one to explain to the few 18/19 year olds who took too much thc oil (dab? The stuff that is 90% thc or something like that) and have no recollection of what they did, where they are, or how they got into a padded jail cell. Almost all were good kids having a bit of fun, then the shit kicks in and they lose their ever-loving mind for about 12 hours, fall asleep and the guards would call the nurse once they woke up. They were often released in the morning with no charges unless they did some property damage or something legit illegal. Watching the reality of the moment dawn on their faces was mildly amusing, but we did the best we could to reassure them and get them comfortable or moved into a better cell until a judge cut them loose.", "lobotomies\n\nLike someone else said, it was throwing the baby out with the bath water.", "Oh Polk County... glad I got out.", "I disagree. I have yet to meet a patient who doesn’t want to better their lives and control their symptoms (unless actively manic of psychotic). Shaping up looks very different for each person. You can do everything right, take your meds, go to appointments, go to therapy, go to ECT, and still have your symptoms worsen. It’s not a personal failure, it’s that we’re working with relapsing and remitting diseases. \nPlus, frankly most of these folks instead run into the prison system which you’d think would be way worse of an deterrent.", "The quality of an idea is independent of when, where, and by whom the idea is shared.", "I agree with you.\n\nI'm talking about borderline cases. I deal with them. People that walk the edge.", "\"A certain sheriff, and I'm not going to name names, but he touted himself as the toughest sheriff in America. I want to be the smartest* sheriff in America.\" He'll yeah, I'd vote for him.", "Oh! Yes, there are definitely some people who don’t want to take their meds and go in and out of the hospital instead. I can see the argument that long term care as an option instead is used as a deterrent. In my own experience, most people that we let know state hospitalization is the next step if they don’t stay adherent to treatment end up in state hospital but I can imagine the border cases where the deterrent is enough", "Almost a year.", "And you're comfortable taking 5 years out of your life and losing your possessions? \n\nMakes one of us.", "Yep.", "More so, it is currently a 'thing' to claim some sort of mental illness. Call it a cry for attention. As in 'Oh I'm on the spectrum but I've never been diagnosed' kind of thing. If the counselor or therapist would counter with 'Let's get you checked into the State' I'm sure many of these cases would magically resolve.", "Yes, the United States is a police state Oligarchy, you heard that correctly.", "Reagan was one of the worst presidents in the post WWII era", "He is probably talking about how Reagen repealed the MHSA\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980#:~:text=The%20Mental%20Health%20Systems%20Act,in%20mental%20health%20care%20policy.", "I love you John Waters. Have a nice day, and thank you for your service to humanity.", "I not only agree but I feel that's the way it ought to be... But people don't seem to think so.", "So how is it that law enforcement skews so conservative when conservatives are behind the pushes to defend mental Healthcare services which has inarguably made their own lives harder?", "Because the 6th amendment does not define what a \"speedy\" trial is.\n\nSpeedy is relative. There are entire fields where speedy means a hundred million years and others where speedy means less than a nanosecond. In law, the challenges of prosecuting/defending a nuanced multistate bureaucratic maybe(?)-crime involving tens of thousands of documents of possible evidence is different from defending a he-said/she-said case of public urination in one city park. Those are way different cases and the time frame for both of them is way different.\n\nIts like trying to set an specific time for how fast a business should deliver a product to the consumer. The problem is there is a huge difference between types of businesses. It take a lot fucking longer to make a bridge than a burrito. And the law is the same; different trials are vastly different so defining what is \"speedy\" is difficult and nuanced. But the important thing to remember is that none of that matters if you're rich/famous. Your rights will only be in question if you're unconnected and poor.", ">It all comes down to funding, staffing, and training in the criminal justice system and mental health services provided by state and local governments.\n\naka institutions that have no interest in changing.", "In Canada, with free healthcare, they killed the programs because there was next to zero measurable success in terms of treatment and recovery.\n\nThe best case perspective was that the mentally ill were living in isolated care off the tax payer dollar.\n\nAs pressure started to mount around patients being institutionalized against their will and abuse allegations at these mental care facilities, they quickly lost funding.\n\nWe see the same thing as the US, lots more homelessness, abuse of care services by mentally ill, and unnecessary conflicts between law enforcement and the mentally ill population. \n\nThere is no clever solution that works, but we could hide the problem better?", "Thank you! That’s a nice thing to say! 🙂", "That actually funded mental health not defunded it. Reagan and the GOP repealed that thus cutting the funding for local systems while not refunding the federal system. This isn't JFKs fault, it's 100% on the GOP.", "You mean the law that funded mental health that Reagan and the GOP repealed to cut all the funding yeah totally did that, but I am talking about cutting funding not funding mental health.", "No lacking all mental health systems was what we where talking about. And local systems funded by a federal program is still a federal mental health program. Reagan cut that too so then there was nothing. You don't get to blame the people that funded the program for it being cut. Not sure how this is complicated for so many people." ]	143	videos	A Florida sheriff's Brief But Spectacular take on mental illness in county jails
https://youtu.be/EFpqcJrJNx4	/r/videos/comments/qf2qkm/chris_farleys_matt_foley_motivational_speaker/	[ "How can we get back on the right TRACK!!!!????!!!", "Fun to see another version of this. Also shows how well Chris nailed the timing on the SNL version.", "lmao", "right i think its also interesting to see the odenkirk preamble with the drug stuff...kinda adds a different dimension to the whole sketch", "Is that Bob Odenkirk also? I know he was somehow involved in writing the skit.", "Fat man in a little coat..\n\nI miss him", "I'm 99% sure it's him. I believe the black guy in the cap is Tim Meadows as well.", "Yep, the first time I saw this my immediate thought was just how much funnier the SNL version was", "The voice was all I needed to hear to know that was Tim.", "I'd been rewatching the famous SNL version for a while now, this comes at the perfect time for me. Amazing", "also should be noted that Jill Talley (Mr Show, Plankton's Computer Wife) is playing the daughter here.", "Yep - Second City sketches start with improv. Farley improvised the basics of the character one night, and then Odenkirk went home and wrote the sketch.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D1nl23DfmQ", "Ooh, it's a lady", "Is there a recording of the original improv?", "Maybe somewhere in their archives, but I've never seen it.", "what a gem of a recording to have", "The ladies man has had several diseases and rebounded from them all", "The SNL version is the funniest few minutes of TV of all time. I had no idea it started out elsewhere! Very cool find.", "It had plenty of time for rewrites and added jokes like \"i can't see too well is that Bill Shakespeare\"", "It was so obvious he was going to be a comedic legend. Farley was bigger than life. Such a shame we lost him.", "I wonder how SNL was able to “own” and produce the sketch. Do they pay the original writers, need to ask permission, does it transfer with the comedians, or does no one care at all?", "It's really cool to watch this one because you can almost see he hasn't quite realized yet just how funny he really is. Like he was rushing through lines at a way higher speed to measure out the pauses for laughter when in reality you can milk almost every single line in that bit because of the sheer comedic power it just exudes at baseline. You can tell by the SNL sketch he'd got it though and he just flawlessly executed the optimal delivery. It could even have been partly intuitive, maybe he wasn't even fully conscious of it. Dude was a natural.\n\nThe thing I really liked about this though is seeing the original parents dialogue they wrote that probably had to be censored out for network TV or maybe just cut down for time, that shit was actually hilarious and killed about as hard as the actual Matt Foley bit.", "It shows how much comedy is an iterative art. All of the funniest jokes you've seen in stand up were part of a set that bombed while the comedian was still working on it.", "I thought that's who it was!", "Odenkirk wrote for SNL.", "The son sounds like Tim Meadows, is it him?? Anyone know??", "its definitely him", "Yeah he crated the character for Chris.", "And being \"thrice divorced\" is so much funnier than just \"divorced.\"", "Chris Farley, Bob Odenkirk, Tim Meadows. Anyone else famous in this sketch?", "Gold", "David Spade helps, as much as he breaks character it just shows how truly funny Farley was\n\nedit: plus the table bit was added, it's the cherry on top", "Oh god... I've just come to the realization that Keegan Michael Key's MADtv character [Coach Hines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0_gW4yBwHU) is pretty much just a total ripoff of this.", "Why is the mom doing that thing with her arms?", "Which in turn becomes Substitute teacher Mr. Garvey", "Wow voice and all", "Yeah Bob is the dad.", "Ja qwellen. Is that you?", "That just leaves the mom. Who was that? Reminds me of Nora Dunn, but she was already well established on SNL by this point.", "You should post this on r/preformances", "To be fair that character is based off a coach he had in high school. Yea you can draw some similarities but I highly doubt he was thinking of Matt Foley when he came up with that character.", "Amazing to see how this evolved into one of the great SNL skits of the 90s.", "I heard Lovitz explain it as if you invented the character before you came to SNL it's yours, if it was after, it's theirs. That's why if you watch some of the older shows, certain sketches are cut out because they couldn't get permission or want to pay the royalties for the sketch.", "Yeah. I get that. But I've seen aziz at the comedy cellar make a cameo a few times. That dude would pretty much read jokes out of his moleskin journal since he was there to test material and not really perform. Kind of annoying as a patron to be treated so explicitly as a test audience for material like that.\n\nEdit: and by read, I mean not check notes, but keep eyes on book while delivering multiple sentences and only looking up at the audience to check reactions.", "Am I the only one that finds this way more obnoxious than funny?", "overkill, and probably not coincidentally the reason why you are not seeing \"is the person playing the mom \\[insert famous person's name here\\]???!\"", "Holy fudge, I didn't realize that was Odinkirk. ... F autocorrect, I like that one better.", "[Tim Meadows and Chris Farley were very close](https://youtu.be/F3D0OTS-ypU).", "...Damn, that is not the character from my childhood I expected to relate to in adulthood", "Yeah, the mom and the comical, fat motivational guy. Who is he?", "That voice...I think it's Holly Wortell", "In another universe similar to our own. Chris Farley never died and continued making movies until they themselves started to not be funny", "Overplaying the \"hippy mom\" bit. Hard to say if it went over well live, but sometimes things look dumb taped but go over better live.", "I’ve always wondered why some episodes on streaming platforms are so short. That makes perfect sense. I assumed it was a rights things somehow but was it sure what the logistics were.", "Twenty years ago I spent so much time trying to find every variation of the Matt Foley sketches on Limewire!", "As an aside, The Ladies Man movie seems to have been forgotten by time and more people should know about it.\n\nIts effort to fit a SNL bit into an entire film isn't totally successful, but I'd say it fared better than Coneheads or It's Pat.", "[SNL video link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8)", "It's pretty common in theater for the actors to over-act their motions so everyone can see what they're doing, even in the back. In this case, she's going a bit overboard with it.", "A little surprised that it's almost word for word identical to the SNL sketch. Curious if Farley wrote the original.", "Because of that, I was able to find this picture: https://i.imgur.com/0ITZsJ8.jpg\n\nThanks for that!", "Or if you're Jay Mohr you just steal Rick Shapiro's irish bartender bit..", "So, um...my car...uh, doesn't exist.", "Chris Farley is one of the funniest people to ever live.", "Is that Tim Meadows?", "lol", "It was written by Bob Odenkirk while they were together at Second City. He is also in the sketch, and would go on to write for SNL. Matt Foley is based on one of Odenkirk's college friends who became Catholic Priest.", "I believe Matt Foley was Farley’s rugby teammate at Marquette and went on to become a priest. Farley oozes Midwest/Chicago niceness and humor - such a tragedy but great that he still makes so many people laugh. Would love to see a biopic on him one day if they could find an actor to pull it off.", "He talks about Farley writing it and pitching it on Conan's podcast. They go on to talk about how Bob has been in the orbit of so much great sketch comedy and few realize it until they ask him.", "That is a pretty low bar you set.", "if you enjoyed that bit of trivia you might enjoy Tina Fey's autobiography 'Bossypants' - she talks a bit about the history of this and other sketches, and her time at Second City, together with other comedians that would later become notorious", "True, but there aren't a whole lot of SNL movies, and most fall into either \"good film still referenced to this day\" or \"totally awful.\"\n\nThe Ladies Man isn't consistently good, but it has enough amusing bits and memorable quotes to make me not regret my decision to watch it. Tim Meadows, Will Ferrell, and Billy Dee Williams do a good job with the material.", "\"Actually Matt, Ellen and I have encouraged Brian in his writing.\"", "how did second city recruit / produce so many future comedy talents. it's kind of wild to me, but i have no context.", "Holy shit the man on the right was Tim Meadows!", "The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long.", "It is incredible how great that skit is. I knew what to expect and yet still laughed at the final delivery.", "They’re all talented, I’m sure… and I love Tim Meadows… but it’s clear Farley outclassed everyone here by a mile.", "According to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Foley), the character was first created by Bob.", "Yup. That was the first one I figured out, right after his first line. Someone else pointed out Bob Odenkirk. After OP mentioned Jill Talley, that just left the mom.", "Odenkirk wrote the sketch!", "Cheers to Waynes World!", "His on stage persona has to be draining for him at times. His high energy is a big draw, so I could see what your saying. His pendulum swings too far to the other side when he’s not delivering well crafted material.", "\"Can I buy you a fish sandwich?\"", "Damn I knew Tom Kenny was spongebob but had no idea she was the wife. Mr show had so many great actors", "What is love? What is this longing in our hearts for togetherness? Is it not the sweetest flower? Does not this flower of love have the fragrant aroma of fine, fine diamonds? Does not the wind love the dirt? Is not love not unlike the unlikely not it is unlikened to? Are you with someone tonight? Do not question your love. Take your lover by the hand. Release the power within yourself. Your heard me, release the power. Tame the wild cosmos with a whisper. Conquer heaven with one intimate caress. That's right don't be shy. Whip out everything you got and do it in the butt. By Leon Phelps", "baby don't hurt me\n\n\n\n\n\nThis comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(\|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(\|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(\|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)", "You are correct. I misremembered!", "Gotta check out the [Espanol](https://youtu.be/lxunl5kS-78) version too", "You'll have plenty of time living in a van down by the river, when you're living in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER.", "My dad saw this cast when they were performing. He said it was surreal seeing them all on SNL. \n\nFarley was my hero as a kid. And in many ways I followed in his footsteps (luckily got clean — ironically at the age of 27 — and am much happier now). But I still mourn his death.", "Well, he's the main character.", "I'm such a fan of the SNL sketch that I was waiting for him to jump on the chairs and was disappointed when he left without breaking anything.", "And is the Mom Nora Dunn? Damn what a stage of future SNL talent.", "Even James Cameron isn't going to find that bar.", "Nice to see this online. I have a copy of an entire hour long Carrell/Colbert mainstage SC show and the one time I tried to share a single clip on YouTube I got a takedown notice from Second City.", "Wait so did Farley write the sketch or did snl buy and/or steal this sketch from a different writer?", "Why yeth", "Ohhhhh, that makes a lot of sense. I always wondered that and thought the sketches included music that they no longer could use.", "I just typed that question and now I found my answer thank you", "Chris Farley was takin from us too soon.", "Second city was like the training ground for SNL cast members.", "One of the best lines came in the SNL versions - [\"Dad, I don't see too good. Is that Bill Shakespeare over there?\"](https://youtu.be/Xv2VIEY9-A8?t=184)", "The SNL version is just \"divorced\" as well.\n\nMaybe they changed it in the sequel sketches.", "From the looks of things, SNL just hired everybody who was involved and onstage that night.", "It was very funny seeing David break character. To u/ginja_ninja's point, Chris's slower pace was definitely better, and he brought out the physicality more. Like the table bit for sure (\"whoopsie daisy!!\"), and [this always cracked me up too](https://youtu.be/Xv2VIEY9-A8?t=263).", "I'm so stoked there's video of this. There's tons of audio gems on the Second City book with discs from 2002.", "Truly majestic.", "I didn’t know that, so does Lorren run it or what? Doesn’t answer rights to who wrote the sketch", "He probably had plenty of time when he was living in a van down by the river", "Chris Farley's death rocked my world. Death was so foreign to me before he died, I had never had a relative or friend die before. I really miss him which is strange to say about a complete stranger.", "Bro how dare you insult coneheads", "Who's the dad and the son then?", "He wrote some iconic sketches, Da Bears being my personal favorite.", "It just keeps getting better when you rewatch it and see David Spade and Christina Applegate trying to hide their laughter during the skit XD", "I what they did with Peggy Hill's hair and waistline", "I was saddened but not surprised. He hosted SNL a couple months before he died. He had clearly gained a lot of weight and looked really unhealthy. When the stories about his substance abuse problems came out after his death it all made sense.", "To this day, I can’t listen to “London Calling” without inserting a little Chris Farley into the chorus.", "FYI - [Chris Farleys first SNL skit](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca)\n\nYeah, that's Conan Obrien as the police officer.", "So how does this work with broadcast rights? Does NBC need to buy the sketch from its staff, which wrote it?", "Someone who didn’t know what to do with her arms apparently. Wtf was she even doing?", "I needed this lol", "I was at the very last show that Farley and Meadows did at Second City before moving on to SNL. I remember seeing them on TV a couple weeks later and did a double take.", "I'm debating reuploading all of the old Second City videos in case they get striked, so I'll probably stick to grabbing a couple more Farley ones. There was a bunch of stuff like this on their YouTube but it seems to have been taken down since then.", "I wouldn’t think so, but it’s possible who knows. I don’t think they were recording all their shows at that time in the 90s. And (as far as I know) the actors do improv sets 6 nights a week there if you’re in the mainstage cast. So that’s a lot of improv sets to film.", "sick! This happened to me with Sam Richardson", "His name is Matt Foley, and he's been down in the basement drinking coffee for the last four hours. He's 35yo, divorced, and lives in a van. Not sure where he parks the van.", "His cousin is CEO of Ford and another cousin was a hockey player and now does color commentary for the Carolina Hurricanes. The family has all sorts of talent..", "Courvoisier", "That's exactly what I came in here to ask. Is that Tim Meadows playing the son as well?\n\nRIP Chris", "The son appears to be Tim Meadows.", "I may be in the minority, but I absolutely love Coneheads.", "I'm really glad that I wasn't to only one who could let that slide. When it came out, I thought Coneheads was great. I watched it recently and was surprised how well it held up in terms of the government's war against undocumented workers. Maybe it's just a family favorite but I'll watch Coneheads any day.", "Considering the number of people I know in their thirties who have jumped on the tiny home/van bandwagon, add this to the list next to \"Married with Children and The Simpson have become economic dream scenarios\"", "\"That was a long shot\"", "The voice is kinda similar but that’s it. Not really the same imo", "And you never paid for drugs. Not once!", "I'm definitely in the minority here but I never really found this sketch all that funny. I normally enjoy slapstick comedy but Chris Farley's style never really clicked with me.", "IANAL, but I believe that the van is resting on the banks of an estuary.", "One of the best\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8", " Bob Odenkirk is the dad.", "> Kind of annoying as a patron to be treated so explicitly as a test audience for material like that.\n\nIf you're not going to a major theater event with the comedian specifically billed, then you're going to see comics working through new material at various stages of readiness.\n\nI get that it kind of sucks to pay money to see someone figure out stuff that works, but they have to experiment _somewhere_. Also worth pointing out that Ansari was making a cameo and wasn't even billed, so he probably also wasn't paid and didn't take away from any of the other performers that night.", "As a Chicagoan who loves going to comedy shows, watching things like this blow my mind. I always wonder who I've seen who may go on to make it big.", "I had the good fortune to see this show live. I started training at The Second City when this show was running. I believe it was called “ Flag smoking permitted in the lobby only” or something like that. The best part was as our class was finishing up on Saturdays we would wait around in the bar and make coffee for these guys they were showing up to get ready for the show show", "That mustv have been really early. I've seen him pop up once with a notebook but it's only went to out between bits.\n\nI would love it either way though. I like seeing the process.", "commedia dell'arte?", "Same, but for me it was Celebrity Jeopardy videos. Had them all saved to my hard drive.", "Might be the first celebrity death I remember. I think I was out of school for Christmas break. Got up early, went on some AOL kids chat room and people were talking about it.", "Bob Odenkirk wrote it and then went on to write for SNL.", "Obviously tragic how he died. But whether you live on this earth 90 years or 30 years. In the grand scheme of things it’s a very short time. Farley made a lot of people laugh and his humor lives on. That’s a success.", "That's a solid parody sketch. Kevin's \"There's only two women on SNL\" joke cracked me up.", "He literally picked up Spade and manhandled him when he yelled out \"we're gonna wrestle!\" In the SNL skit. Definitely turned it to an 11 that night.", "I think the best part is how no one can keep a straight face", "I'll up that - I'm 100% sure. \n\nA young Bob Odenkirk in the wild indeed...", "Oh man that choked me up. Tim Meadows seems like such a sweet dude.", "I don't think the sketch itself is that funny. I think how everyone else can't keep a straight face is what makes it so funny", "Take drugs\n\nAct wacky\n\nRepeat\n\nDie", "Prepare to see a wet bird fly at night.", "Bob Odenkirk and Phil Hartman on SNL. Two legends", "Oh wow, the Dad is Michael McKean, a.k.a Chuck on Better Call Saul. I didn't know that he was on SNL.\n\nSeems like if you played \"six degrees of separation from Bob Odenkirk,\" you would never need more than two degrees.", "Are you sure you don’t want some? It has the slightest lemon essence and it IS delightful.", "Kind of funny you say something like that considering the way that Farley moves in this sketch.", "So you don't want a fish sandwich then?", "\"Tim? You're still on the show?\" -Phil Hartman", "Pat yes cone no", "And the sister is Jill Talley!", "Yeah looking back I'm probably excessively harsh on Coneheads. I haven't seen it in over twenty years and just remember feeling it was disappointing.\n\nI watched It's Pat a few years ago (I vaguely recall seeing a bit of it in the 90s), and it was soul-crushingly bad. I'd group it with Leonard Part 6 among some of the worst films I've seen.", "By the time he did that sketch on SNL he'd already done it 100s of times.", "More like SNL just recruits a lot of people from there. Plus people get on the show and recommend their friends who went there. \n\nPlus a lot of people want to do SNL and know enrolling in the big improv groups is a stepping stone to get on there. And those groups get to pick the best of the best people who apply. So it's kind of like Second City and other improv groups do the legwork of auditioning people for SNL. Also improv was less popular back then so the pool of people to choose from was smaller.", "She’s also Tom Kenny’s wife!", "You just blew my mind even more haha", "Damn, they were all so young.", "Bob Odenkirk wrote it and was a writer for SNL when it went on.", "I HONESTLY thought that when I read a reply to \"Is that Bob Odenkirk also?...\" followed by your \"...I believe that black guy...\" I laughed out loud thinking you were gonna say \"...is Bob Odenkirk\" and now I can't un-see it.", "\"Dad, I wish you could just shut your big YAPPER!!\"", "I saw it live... I was just completely transfixed. Hilarious", "Doobies, my man", "Yes. Chris and Tim were at Second City in Chicago at the same time. They both got noticed by SNL scouts and came onto the show about the same time.", "Right. The real life Matt Foley was the inspiration for the name only. The character's manner of speak and mannerisms, respectively, were somewhat based around Farley's father and high school football coach.", "I mean, he wrote it. Lol", "A friend took me to see Upright Citizens Brigade in NYC around 2006. I remember Horatio Sans was one of the performers but I wish I would have written the names down. Can almost guarantee there'd be some well known names in there. It was hilarious.", "This got me good. I’ve had some friends pass in my life, and, while I miss them all, there’s one passing in particular of a very dear friend that still gets me unexpectedly, not unlike Tim here, even years after the fact. I think it speaks volumes about one’s character when we still mourn them after so much time.\n\nThanks for sharing.", "He lives!!!! We sure did lose a good one. Boy I miss him", "It's about time you watched the documentary.", "I could hear his voice when I read that.", "MAINTAIN LOW TONES\n\nMy mom still asks me if I want a mid-day cessation of activities for carbo-protein intake lol", "Thank you for sharing that…loved that skit and Chris Farley. RIP to one of the best!", "Coneheads is legit one of my fav movies of all time, it still holds up", "\"Kwuh-va-thee-aye\"", "Christina Applegate's delivery oF the line, \"I wanna live in a van down by the river...\" is also gar greater and just the perfect attitude and facial expression.", "I always thought the 2nd version was funnier. Then after that it does what most repeated SNL sketches do and get progressively more predictable and formulaic every time\n\nhttps://youtu.be/1LyqPdZjQTY", "as a big twin peaks fan, i had no idea this existed, thanks for posting this", "It’s so interesting to me how someone breaking during a comedy sketch can either add or subtract to it immensely. In general the idea of breaking is a net negative, but you’re right to point out that Spade breaking adds to this. And as much shit as Fallon (mostly rightfully) gets, his breaking in the Cowbell skit similarly contributes to it.", "Yes. This is arguably the greatest comedy skit of all time.", "CHRIS IS MY GOAT", "That's what the comedy cellar is for.... It's literally a basement for up and coming comedians to test material before going out on tour or filming a special", "I suppose that means you don't find the OP video funny?", "watching the video, how could it be anyone else but him", "“Well, all you had to do was write a number, and you wrote... ‘Threeve.’ A combination of three and five. Simply stunning. And you wagered... Texas with a dollar sign in front of it. I'm speechless.”", "https://t.me/joinchat/NwlQPNcGER03Njgx", "I thought so too", "Wow tim meadows and bob odenkirk were in this original bit with chris! This is comedy gold! Thanks op!", "I personally like being used as a test audience at Comedy Store in West Hollywood. I love watching comedians toe the line of funny and too obscene/offensive trying to dial it just right where it makes people laugh while still pushing boundaries. It’s interesting to hear a beta version of a joke and then a year or so later see how much it has changed when it is delivered in a Netflix special or something like that.", "Damn. That got me. Thank you for sharing. Tim Meadows seems like a great dude.", "Oh wow what an amazing find!", "Lol your Mom sounds awesome", "Nobody's going to do you in the butt wikipedia_answer_bot", "Thanks so much for this.\n\nI had no idea", "Wayne was likewise a character Mike Myers had fleshed out before joining SNL. An entire career on two characters and scotch ogre voice.", "On a pretty big Vegas stage, I saw Carlin where he announced that a segment was all new material he was working out. You get to see that his entire routine is basically reading a script he had memorized, night after night.", "\"I'll take 'Catch The Semen' for 800.\"", "I'm a late bloomer Alex, and in Double Jeopardy I'm gonna bloom!", "I honestly think it adds to it. In It's Always Sunny, just about every scene has one of them looking away or bending over because they can't contain the giggles. And once you notice it it just makes the scene that much funnier.", "I also heard something about Jay Mohr stealing from his openers over the years.\n\nBut at least with the Bartender thing, royalties were eventually paid. So happy ending, as far as joke thieving goes.", "His whole vocal delivery evolved for the better. In particular:\n\n>van down by THE RIVER!\n\nWas upgraded to:\n\n> VAN, down by the RIVER!", "\nCoor-vwas-ee-eh", "Thanks for this, I thought I'd seen all the Matt Foley sketches. This was my first watch.", "The movie? Yeah it's Great!\n\nDave Thomas blowing bubbles with a condom.", "Farley died at 33", "The Simpsons house was stolen from Abe before they put him in the HOME.", "Holy shit this is verbatim almost to the SNL. I guess don’t change it if it’s perfect", "It’s Pat will have its day", "Impossible, perhaps the archives are incomplete.", "Thats Nora Dunn, future SNL member. But go ahead.\n\n I'm sure the lady on stage with Chris Farley, Bob Odenkirk, Jill Talley, and Tim Meadows appreciates your deep insight about how she's not good.", "My favorite cannibal.", "Can you use a different service? Vimeo?", "Its funny because it is obnoxious", "She is . . . in bed.", "Dear Ladies Man, I am a 39 year old male.", "Perfect.", "Not alone. A fat dude \"acting\" like he's coked out of his mind doesn't strike me as funny. \n\nOppositely it's sad to think that he might've felt like he was stuck in his role and people laughed as he went down the path to an early grave.", "And one of those two characters is also Scottish.", "I saw Jim Jeffries several years ago and he did the Oscar Pistorious bit and about 2/3rds of the way through it he stopped and said he doesn't have an ending for this bit yet but he's working on it.\n\nIt was funny because the rest of the set was complete but his honesty about the Pistorious bit being incomplete was a joke in itself.", "Is that Tim Meadows? Classic!", "The SNL skit is much funnier because of Spade and Applegate not being able to keep it together.", "That's not what a cameo is. You went to a comedy club in Hollywood. It's literally for comedians go test material. You went to McDonalds and got mad because you didn't get fine dining.", "I honestly didn't find him funny when I was a kid, and I find him even less funny now.", "Whip out everything you've got and do it in the butt.", "Yeah, I'm surprised so many people missed this.", "Will you fucks read the video description instead of asking stupid questions like who was in this video?", "I can't believe people say his era of SNL was good and that newer SNL doesn't compare to it. He's so cringy.", "Yes, Bob was a regular at Second City the same time Farley was", "THE Nora Dunn? OMG you guys. I'm SO sorry.", "Why did I always think it was thrice divorced? Where did that come from?", "Nah, Lorne doesn’t run SC. It’s the primary place he digs for talent though. It’s a whole enterprise. The offer improv classes, do corporate trainings, and have a traveling show. I knew a guy who was on a cruise doing SC shows for (I think) six months.", "I think a lot of people would be surprised how common this is. It plagues open mics. A lot of up and comers have their best bits stolen by some big shot and they can't do anything about it. If they continue to do the bit, everyone will say they stole it.\n\nHell, Robin fucking Williams was known to do this.", "You shut your foul mouth about Coneheads, that movie is a masterpiece.\n\n\"It is not everyday a father can give the world to his child.\"", "Came here to say this. RIP Farley.", "He was 100% involved. He wrote it.", "That guy isn’t on snl is he? Good for him because it sucks now", "I loved \"Superstar.\"", "In the old days, pre Youtube, it was easy for comedians to steal jokes all the time, since guy they were stealing from was likely in another city performing and nobody really documented the acts. Try that today and you'd quickly have side by side camera phone vids of the two comedians exposing the theft.", "Dad I can’t see too well, is that Bill Shakespeare over there??", "The “how can I get back on the right track” physical comedy is one of the best parts of the snl one", "Miss you Chris!", "I'm pretty sure that's Jill Talley that was on Mr. Show with Bob Odenkirk...", "/r/getmotivated", "https://youtu.be/LC2WpBcdM_A?t=1m45s", "I’m fairly certain that’s Bob Odenkirk as the dad and Tim Meadows as the son. Not sure about the other two.", "Also Tim Meadows!", "I could’ve sworn in one of the Foley sketches he says “I am thrice divorced…” which I always thought was hilarious how someone could be like 35 and be divorced three times already. \n\nMaybe it was a fever dream.", "I think the question is why doesn't Mat Foley belong to Second City? The answer is probably one of three things:\n\n1. Chris Farley invented the character before SC\n2. SC's employment contract allows actors to keep ownership of characters and sketches they create\n3. SNL has a lot more money for lawyers than SC does", "I dont care what you say, chlamydia is a soup", "Yes, it was Bob Odenkirk and Tim Meadows. Odenkirk was a writer on the series and came over with both of them.", "> a.k.a Chuck on Better Call Saul.\n\na.k.a Lenny Kosnowski on Laverne & Shirley.", "Debbie Downer at Disney World is my favorite for character breaking.", "No", "Yes, he is the creator of the character.", "Well, you'll have plenty of time to live in a van down by the river, when YOU'RE LIVING IN A VAN. DOWN. BY. THE RIVER!!", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LyqPdZjQTY\n\nthey did sequel sketches", "Yep, literally lists everyone's name in the sketch in the YouTube description... Tim Meadows and Bob Odenkirk.", "It says everyone in YouTube description!!!!", "They made a movie about pat? Lol", "Are we playing this game? Okay!\n\nI like to drive cars!....in bed.", "Having seen the movie, I get it \n\nIf I hadn't, I don't know how I would interpret that sentence", "Ah, I thought it was Rosalind Chao (of Star Trek). Very similar voice inflections", "Don't forget So I Married an Axe Murderer!\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqycJpRdVaY", "Nope, you heard it right. Best use of thrice I've ever seen.", "Can I buy you a fish sandwich?", "Very little variance from the script. I had assumed Applegate’s line was impromptu, “I’d like to live in a van down by the river.”", "[This one](https://youtu.be/PfPdYYsEfAE) of Ryan Gosling and Aidy Bryant breaking on SNL is one of my favorite examples of this. I think it adds a ton to it. Same with Hader breaking when he was doing \"Stefon\" and John Mulaney had changed the lines on him without him knowing.", "If this is about comedy cellar they will often have a standard billing but the last act may be a non-billed often famous drop in that wants to test some material. For example Ck used to so that a lot there before he got busted.", "WOMAN\n\nWOAH - MAN\n\nWOOOAAAAAOAOAOAOAOAOOAOAO - MAN", "Because if it's not Scottish it's crap!", "The Spanish one is so good I can’t believe I only saw it for the first time recently.", "With Robin Williams, from what him and many have said, it was mostly unintentional. Allegedly his mind used to spew so much stuff out all at one time while ad-libbing, he would throw out jokes he had recently heard from others and wouldn't realize it. Williams usually had no problem paying the comic in question money when it was brought to his attention that he was using stolen material.", "The van's a Chevy. It's down by the levy ... which is dry. You know, climate change and what not.", "I love Tim Meadows also. He is funny AF in his own right.", "Yeah that was awful.", "I came to the comments hoping for an explanation", "I don't doubt that because it's frankly hard to imagine Robin Williams being an asshole, but he was notorious for it. \n\nAlso, I've dabbled in standup myself and can honestly say parallel thinking happens. I was doing material in New England, moved to Texas, heard similar jokes and it's not like the comic from Austin heard an absolute nobody from New England's jokes and decided to crib them. I dropped shit from my act because I heard another comic do it and didn't want to be accused of stealing my own shit I wrote years prior. \n\nI also think what you describe happens to a lot of people on some subconscious level. If you're doing standup, you're around comics and standup performances all the time. You're always listening for a premise. It's a skill you develop and it's not like you turn it off when you're around fellow comics. You could easily hear something and later \"stumble\" on that stray thought like it originated with you, especially if you relate to the experience.", "As someone else said, it's kinda moot for this sketch because Bob Odenkirk wrote for SNL. But I just wanted to point out that SNL has been accused of stealing material many, many times. So they also don't care.", "#\"HERE'S YOU! HERE'S MATT!\"", "Performers also don't really work for Second City. It's more like paid contractors, and even that would be generous.", "Farley played Matt Foley eight times on SNL. Fun fact.", "And he's 27 or 28 years old in this.", "Odenkirk is 27 or 28 years old in this.", "Man I miss him.", "Is that Bob Odenkirk and Alex Bornstein.", "Yep, Definitely Bob Odenkirk and Tim Meadows\n\nhttps://external-preview.redd.it/pv4OV_7BGOAdPwjsmj3gKp2wKX5sgfZtqa2-9yvm3oY.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b71cb88e559d8b79167c31980973ac75130868be", "The character is now a couple years younger than me! I remember thinking my 30s and 40s were so far in the future... this happened way too fast!", "I would really appreciate it if you would shut your big YAPPER!!", "His struggle with the pants gets me every time. Also “We’ll La Ti FREAKING DA!!!”", "We always invite friends and family over and char mammal flesh on our flame pit. 😂", "God damnit I miss Phil Hartman.\n\nAnd Chris Farley.\n\nShit.", "I think part of the SNL skit that makes it was it is is David Spade and Christina Applegate cracking.", "Any mirrors? Looks like Second City removed it.", "Whoa, this video got removed as i was watching it. 30 seconds in and it just cuts to unavailable. Interesting.", "He isn’t on, no. Lots of folks go through second city….not many make it to SNL.", "Comedy is subjective so that’s alright", "... Did you think they were just up there winging it with off the cuff thoughts every night?", "He wrote this sketch.", "https://vimeo.com/273134007", "https://vimeo.com/273134007", "How is it that Second City can be such a singular star factory? It's really insane", "Found a [mirror here!! Everyone who missed it can watch it here!](https://vimeo.com/273134007)", "Mirror?\n\nWhy do these videos always become \"unavailable?\"", "“Is that what the mustache is for, Trebek??”", "One of my favorite shows of all time is The Drew Carey Show partially because he breaks a lot and they left it in.", "It’s not even the line that makes it funny. It’s Chris Farley’s strong choices and excellent physicality. The manic arm flailing and “FOCUS” hand gestures and the wide football coach stance and compulsive shirt-tucking are what sell it.", "Video unavailable. Maaaaan da heck!", "\nNice second city found out and copy right claimed this. God forbid a memory of Farley lives on if they aren't making money off a 20 year old clip", "I definitely miss Farley so much, and I only knew him through his comedy. I grew up with him on SNL and in some of my favorite movies. I really identified with his form of comedy and personality. But I can imagine how much more missed and loved he was by people who had a personal connection to him like Tim Meadows and David Spade.\n\nHis death was so tragic. I often think about Farley, because his characters and comedy still resonates to this day, and what he would have accomplished over the last couple decades. I mean I still send a \"Tommy want wingy\" meme when I want to plan going to get hot wings with friends at a local restaurant! His stuff was just so freaking good.", "This is true, Matt Foley and him were friends, he’s a priest at my grandmas church - st James in Arlington heights.", "ddint age well lol", "yeah it got taken down :(", "Dang it second City did a copyright strike on that first link. Does anybody have another link?", "Anyone got a mirror? It’s been taken down.", "Anyone got a mirror? It’s been taken down.", "Lame they copyright struck it", "Yeah it'd be like a music venue trying to claim ownership of a bands song that debuted at their location.", "Thank you!", "Aka Various Voices on Dinosaurs", "Is this in it? Asking because the link got copyright claimed.", "There’ll be plenty of time for rOlLiNg DoObIeS, when you are LIVIN’ IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER!", "Yes!! Thank you! I remember really laughing at that and not hearing it here made me wonder…\n\nMuch more pathetic to be twice divorced before 40, let alone thrice! \n\nHave my respect good citizen!", "The character Dieter from Sprockets as well as Wayne from Wayne's World both originated on a Canadian show, \"It's Only Rock 'N Roll\" in 1987.", "Very true about David Spade.", "You get to see him do pre SNL Matt Foley for about 15 seconds. It's not the whole skit though", "It's down.", "Louie CK said during an interview that Denis Leary stole his entire \"Asshole\" bit from him.", "Still works for me.", "Never in a million years would I have put this one together, you just made my day!", "Good majority of people in entertainment who do some form of acting/performance spent time there. From Tina Fey and Amy Pohler, to Steve Carell and Stephen Colbert. Conan O'Brien. Martin Short. Bill Murray. It's honestly nuts. Not much compares to it. Maybe like the improv for comedians. Not as close though.", "I always thought the Commodores missed a chance to use \"Thrice times a Lady\". Really could have put it into common parlance for sure!", "Denis Leary has been accused of stealing a lot of material from a lot of comics over the years, including [Bill Hicks.](https://youtu.be/lf1ultenl3I)\n\nOne of my favorite Denis Leary moments ever was when [Greg Giraldo murdered Leary on Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn.](https://youtu.be/ymltNm4p2VY)", "https://vimeo.com/273134007", "Thanks!", "Noted", "She's a real estate agent in Calabasas.", "bingo", "He was such a clever, sweet guy that I can easily imagine a timeline where he pivots into respected dramatic work", "The story goes that the table break was either an accident or that Chris didnt tell anyone about it beforehand. You can tell in later skits that they use special breakaway stunt tables, whereas the original skits had splinters and shit flying everywhere. You can see the surprise on everyone's face.", "If you & your mom like that, you may also enjoy [Strange Planet Comics](https://instagram.com/nathanwpylestrangeplanet). I’ve largely converted my wife over to saying “comfort square” but that’s just the beginning of my grand plan.", "It’s unavailable because second city placed \n a copyright strike against it", "Not just you it seems. :-) \n\n\nI use thrice as much as I can in my chemistry class. Just a funny word. I underline things thrice just so I can make a point of saying \"thrice.\"", "I am the egg man - coo coo ca choo. \n\n\nDamn that is funny, and I have watched this sooo many times.", "It's more than thirty years old, hoss", "I honestly had no idea that there were more than the original 2.", "Why was this taken down. Why?", "Oh yeah I definitely like that comic! I dunno if she's seen it, I should show it to her", "It is truly mind-boggling how dumb companies can be about this kind of stuff. The other day I was at a concert and pulled out my phone to record the band, and a bouncer flashed a strobe light in my eyes til I put the phone down. What's gonna happen, more people find out how great the concert and venue is? Are people holding watch parties in their basement next time their favorite band is in town because grainy cell phone footage is a substitute for a live show? Are they worried people will get too hyped and become uncontrollable?", "People always obsess over the actors of that SNL era but the writers room was literally an all star cast. 89-91 had Jim Downey, Conan, Greg Daniels (The Office US, Parks and Rex), Odenkirk, Al Franken, Jack Handey, and Robert Smigel. \n\nDavid Spade on Conans podcast was great where he said something like “you get on the show and then with no prep you are in a room with these geniuses who show up for work at 5pm and you’re just wondering what the fuck you are supposed to do”", "Second City has some improv mixed into a show but it’s 95% written sketch comedy. Improv Olympic is the king of Chicago improv scene.\n\nOdenkirk wrote this sketch from the start", "Every show ends with an improv based on audience suggestions, which is then a source of future sketches.", "This lead me down a trail of SNL Debbie Downer skits. Lol.", "In a Van down by the River, my favorite line of all time, RIP my friend", "nah i got it and i think it was fine. i mean, it was exaggerated and over the top on purpose i thought. like ya, the parents are overboard. i don't think it's dumb, i thought it was a clear sign the parents were kinda dumb because they hired matt foley.", "Second City is where a lot of SNL cast members got their start. It’s a springboard for comedic acting talent.", "Yea. But since it was a previous work, dows SNL/NBC need to pay for rights to the skit?", " How to Make Life More Positive" ]	381	videos	Chris Farley’s ‘Matt Foley Motivational Speaker’ sketch before SNL....at The Second City in Chicago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_1qC6AKnIA	/r/videos/comments/qf31yp/dr_who_but_its_on_guitar/	[ "Every Muse song ever!", "This is good bro, I hope you get more upvotes!", "Needs more power slides", "Thank you :)" ]	4	videos	Dr Who but it's on guitar
https://youtu.be/wDfKFDit7_U	/r/videos/comments/qf3zrt/this_is_why_modern_women_cant_get_married_in_20212/	[ "Stop interrupting the video every 2 seconds with your shitty commentary. The videos speak for themselves…stop…it’s so cringey…", "Shut up", "?", "?", "Haha", "Yea and you can't get married because you're a basement dwelling creepy sex addicted loser. \n\nBut keep blaming women.", "Simp" ]	7	videos	This is why MODERN WOMEN can't get married in 2021\|2
https://youtu.be/DmdDI9yAaUg	/r/videos/comments/qf4smr/prince_on_william/	[ "[will.i.am](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWyn8QS74EY) is a what would happen if Jaden Smith's twitter came to life.", "This is what I imagine a schizophrenic person's inner monologue sounds like.", "[Alanis did a beautiful cover of the smash hit known as My Humps.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJg4rwDkkBA)", "He also wrote John legends Ordinary People if I’m not mistaken", "I hate his stupid mouth and his who wannabe interesting personalia. He's dumb and plain.", "I can't tell if he's acting stupid on purpose or just really IS that stupid. If it's the former than he's quit smart. The world may never know.", "You are indeed, mistaken! He produced it, Jon Legends and Will Adams wrote the song", "Haha, I actually thought so. Was pulling that out the memory bank from a while back. Now, I know. Thanks for the correction and accurate info" ]	8	videos	Prince on will.i.am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oap6_U8-HvI	/r/videos/comments/qf5s0n/fry_laurie_market_forces/	[ "The “we have no end to this sketch” method", "Since when did the flaming BBC block clips in the UK.", "Since BritBox became a thing." ]	3	videos	Fry & Laurie - Market Forces
https://youtu.be/K1aVho7fZD8	/r/videos/comments/qf62tq/shallow_not_lady_gaga/	[ "Nice voice.", "Pretty good, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dedl5cVMv0) is my favorite cover of Shallow.", "Thank you.", "I mean, I can't compete with that (thanks for letting me know that exists).", "Thanks. Listened a couple times and enjoyed!", "Awesome sauce!" ]	6	videos	Shallow - NOT Lady Gaga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVCpKfedfok	/r/videos/comments/qf6bsx/william_osman_im_done/	[ "YouTubers who get famous like William aren’t trained to handle the vitriol hatred of the public like other mainstream celebrities. There is no system that will change the public. The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change. \n\nThe only thing we can do is help support and train these creators to set mental boundaries with the public at the start of their fame. \n\nEven now, you will see comments talking about how he is being a wus for being successful and rich. Or that he should of had the foresight so that he doesn’t burnout. And that will always be the internet. It will never go away.", "Absolutely terrible, his videos are filled to the brim with positivity. To see that there are people out there who hate on him, or the people who he loves, is just terrible.", "I was unaware of who William Osman was up until this video. His video states alot of valid points. He stated a lot of his work are passion projects. He is making himself vunerable in order to relate, to congregate, and celebrate with others. I believe a lot other individuals that share content have the same intent; to have a discourse in a safe environment. It's truly ashame certain humans are not capable of comprehending this.", "My intro to William's channel was his house burning down saga. I came out of those videos thinking really highly of him actually. I thought he approached it with honesty and brought in humour when he could. \n\nAlmost exactly a year later I lost everything to a house fire myself. It may sound silly but his experience was the only reference I had for what a shitty experience it was, and so I tried to emulate his approach when dealing with it all. I did a sit ton of crying but I laughed a lot through it too. I put a lot of thanks for allowing that on him. \n\nYoutube/social media is shitty and I really hope he returns when and if he's ready.", "This guy is a little too self conscious. He wants everyone to like him. This is the internet, it will never happen. \n\nUse the money, ignore the haters, get a thicker skin, brush off the haters.", "Yeah it's unfortunate that it's just kind of \"part of the job\". The usual method for internet personalities to not lose their fucking mind is to just completely ignore all comments, good and bad, but as an internet personality your job kind of depends on making connections with your audience and being personable. I don't think it should be that way, but that's just become the way it is, and it seems to always help a channel the more they interact with their fans and effectively cultivate parasocial relationships whether they want to or not. But with the nature of the internet it's going to have a certain level of bullshit ranging from bored contrarian assholes who somehow find shitting on people all day fun, or literal psychopaths who want to ruin your life and/or have some sort of unhealthy obsession with you. It's not a task that should be asked of anyone, but yet there's this culture of celebrities, even \"normal\" celebrities constantly having to say how much they \"love\" their fans and how much they care. Fuck that shit. It's on the consumer to recognize the unhealthy ways they perceive and interact with these people and to pull themselves away so that someone can not get sucked in to the infinite void of the internet because they feel like it's their job.", "This comment right here officer.\n\nBut for real, people just want to be able to like themselves. Having potential weaknesses is normal, it's having those thoughts reinforced by negative people that isn't.\n\nStill fuck those people who want to be popular by any means, can't stand em.", "I listened for a total of 2 minutes before I didn't give a shit because he's not articulating his thoughts clearly. Let me summarize his 20 minute video for you \"my hobby became my full time job and my income, then it became a job and stressed me out and was no longer pleasurable\" took 1 minute. Fucking learn to talk.", "Certain humans comprehend it, and torture him on purpose. He is also handling it wrong when he acknowledges them and the harm they are causing him. As soon as he released the response to trolls about his x-ray video, I knew he fucked up. The trolls got exactly what they want, attention from a minor celebrity. They probably got more than they wanted, they got at least 2 videos dedicated to them.", "You are literally the exact sort of person this video is about.", "How is that possible? I don't know who he is and I've never seen him. He made a video about a demographic of People that don't watch his content or give a shit? There are a million failing youtubers and streamers. No one cares.\n\nEDIT: I would like to add the main reason these videos annoy the shit out of me, is that people that make content for a living chose to do that job. It's a job that exposes you to criticism. It can be very lucrative and difficult. The thing is if you can't handle it, or your failing, why should anyone fucking care? Does anyone on here care about my buddy at work JP who sucks and never gets promoted? No why would you? These people are monetizing this drama. It's pathetic. I'm not fooled nor do I give two shits. Take a vacation from making content if your burned out. Hire PR if you don't want to deal with comments. Etc.", "Simone, Ludwig, Nilered, etc all in one video kinda cool.\n\nBut yeah social media was a mistake", "I was bullied in high school, and that whole line of \"Don't give them the acknowledgement they want\" is bullshit. It absolutely is. I didn't love the video where he called out that troll, but this one needed to be said.\n\nThere's too much shrugging and \"Well, them's the breaks\" or \"cry me a river, Mr. YouTube popular\" (just read the bottom comments in this thread). And it's not just a him problem: everyone he interviews has had to cope with shit like this, and there are countless more who have quit before they got this far in their YouTube careers for exactly this reason. Why is that someone who dares to put videos online should have to just deal with people calling his wife fat? Why should we be okay with people actively working to get under people's skin? \n\nNah, he's right to be pissed and tired. Not talking about it for fear of making things worse is how these cycles grow. It isn't going away. It isn't normal. It's fucked. Props to Big Willie for opening up about this.", "I worked in retail for 10 years and one single video's comments are worse than all those years combined. Yes, I've had people tell me I should die, or that they hope I get cancer, but when face to face those are so rare. Usually bad customers were just annoying for an hour or so and then I could let it go. Online is so much worse.\n\nAlso a bad argument that it's bad everywhere so sorry just deal with it and ignore it. People deal with things differently and telling someone in a bad time that it's bad other places is not helpful.", "Wow, It seems you are extraordinarily negative about everything. Why? Frankly I would highly recommend you think about talking to someone about it. Being this negative about things in life frankly is no fun. \n\nIt bleeds into being negative about yourself which is not healthy.", "Yes erase all the discussion and opinions from other creators. That's the way.", ">The thing is if you can't handle it, or your failing, why should anyone fucking care? Does anyone on here care about my buddy at work JP who sucks and never gets promoted?\n\nOk you win. No one should talk about anything ever.\n\nDude, you just sound bitter.", "I'm sure as fuck negative about whiney YouTubers yeah. Farming peoples emotions with \"I quit\" posts. Pathetic lmao.", "You mean like his last video where he doxxed, catfished, and manipulated a guy causing him to get harassed by thousands of his viewers? How positive.\n\nEdit: watching the wild vote swings on these comments is interesting. ~~Didn’t realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take.~~ \n\nI get the feeling a lot of you think I’m lying, so [go watch](https://youtu.be/WDhr5E50Nds?t=608) for yourself.", "I'm just older than you probably. I've been YouTube back when it didn't have ads, wasn't owned by Google, was a place for fun, expression. Now it's a monetized shit hole where douchebags sell victimization for views. This dude chose to make content creation his main source of income. Without a doubt he knows this shit sells. I don't believe any of these people because they make money from it. It's drama. It sells. I find it pathetic.", "Straight up, this man should be doing something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He is in such an unhealthy mental state that his mannerisms screamed a need for therapy. Is it depression? Does it have to get that bad to get help?\n\nThe stigma for men to tough it out and think things will get better is still with us today. But there is more to life than either sucking it up or giving up. Sometimes you just need a little help to be a better you and it doesn't make you any less of a person for asking for help. Posting this was very brave of him and I'm so glad he has people around him that can offer support.\n\nWhether or not he continues to make videos doesn't matter. All that does is attempting to regain a healthy mental state where he can enjoy his life again.", ">The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change.\n\nWe can only hope that social media as a whole, including this very site, will eventually be destroyed. Human psychology is not equipped for these types of impersonal interactions, and it has accomplished little more than to create filter bubbles, political extremism, incitement of hatred against the other, and human misery.\n\nWe'll be fortunate if we can put this horror back in Pandora's box and eventually do away with this mistake. But sadly that hope may not truly be possible.", "You can't avoid negativity entirely with a large enough sample size there's always a few bad eggs.\n\nNow I don't want to say \"just tune it out\" because that isn't necessarily helpful, but I would say get some therapy and see if you can't get to a better place where you are able to rebuff the negativity for the small group of people that it is.", "A big part of the problem is the platform: Youtube/et al incentivizes discord because it gets them more engagement and money. They profit off turning their talent into punching-bags.", "That video was really weird and not what mentally healthy William Osman looks like, in my opinion. I've been a fan of William Osman for a long time, and he clearly was already \"done\" in that video, and this video today was the inevitable continuation of that. He had been slowly mentioning more and more about what kind of negative things people say in the comments in his last 3-5 videos.", "Yeah for sure. I sympathize with him a great deal. I wish the internet were a less shitty place. I’m not at all surprised this is the follow up, but it strikes me as incredibly tone deaf at the same time. (I mean two wrongs don’t make a right) \n\nLike you said, it’s the sort of inevitable conclusion. \n\nThe last video was the lashing out, and this is just the more thought out conclusion. I hope the guy can figure out how to handle his social media presence better, for his own mental wellbeing’s sake.", "Interesting take. I think you might be on to something. Just so many losers waiting online all day to get mad at people and upset about everything and anything (and no this is not directed at any one particular group) and others waiting to upvote them for saying it.", "Ramsey Dewey, a relatively small MMA and philosophy channel had an insightful perspective on this topic. Because there's a lot of negativity in the MMA community, especially geared at someone like Ramsey Dewey who lost a majority of his pro fights. Anyway, he noticed that even Gabriel Varga, who was literally one of the best kickboxers of all time, gets people telling him that he doesn't know shit about fighting in the comments section. There's literally no possible way to convince that last 1% of the youtube comments to not be negative. That's all the more reason to not take it personal.", "People can't downvote the garbage comments so they stick around. If the person making the video could see that everyone disagrees with that negative comment they would probably not be as affected.", ">\"My hobby became my full time job and my income, then ~~it became a job and stressed me out and was no longer pleasurable~~, as I grew in popularity, the number of people taking a shit down my throat increased to an untenable number. This is distressing because part of why I love doing it is I like sharing it with people. My mental health has taken a toll because of the incongruency between how this used to make me feel and how it currently makes me feel. Having random people who don't know you constantly tell you how you're wrong, stupid, selfish, and a bad person fucking sucks; having random people talk shit about your family, call your girlfriend fat and stupid, tell you that you deserved to have your house burn down or that your house didn't really burn down fucking sucks. Further, having people tell you that you deserve those comments fucking sucks. I also talked to my friends who have similar internet-facing occupations to ask their opinion on the phenomenon of latching onto the negativity and they, unsurprisingly, echoed my thoughts. \n> \n>Taking this kind of bullshit is hard and I'm tired and sad.\"\n\nFTFY", "Hardly; the guy spread vitriol on a public forum using their full name that was shared with their linked-in\n\nOn top of the multitude of disclaimers both at the start, in the bio and throughout the video; any identifying details outside the comment section itself were blurred \nThis Asinine twisting the situation to throw shade for the sake of it is what he was referring to with the whole pointless negativity", "You are a very naive person if you think he believes disclaimers would be enough to stop people. Saying “hey don’t harass people in this video” is a CYA, everyone knows it will happen anyway. Especially when you share their personal info. \n\nOn top of that it was hardly vitriol. Just some asshole being dickish confidently incorrect in a subject he knows nothing about. It’s all publicly visible, go read it again.\n\nTwo wrongs don’t make a right anyway.\n\nEdit: and I’m not really sure how I feel about all that anyway, he’s playing both sides but people are siding with him because he’s famous. It’s a bit ironic and hypocritical in that sense.", "Your account age is 12 years - only 2 years only than mine. If we opened our accounts at the same age I’d have to guess you are 32. Regardless your experience on the internet isn’t that much different than mine as I was terminally online even before phpBB was widespread.\n\nThe guy you are disparaging, for no reason at all a guy who only uploads once a month, already far less than he used to. He makes plenty of engineering based videos where he actually builds something instead of just commenting over a video game. He’s probably not even making that much - again I don’t know what you know about YouTube, but no one making engineering content that only posts once a month is exactly “swimming” in dough. He probably makes more money from his actual engineering job if he has one, despite his high subscriber count.\n\nYou look around and ask “why is YouTube so vapid”, sure some of it is money but some of it is also that jerks like you chased off some of the most creative YouTubers off the platform; exactly how he explained in his videos. The guys who have the rare combination to make comedic videos incorporating engineering don’t have to do YouTube; they can simply go work for Qualcomm and make an easy six figure salary. In the end it’s ultimately the people who don’t listen to their audience or just cater to 13 year olds who win instead and rest of us are robbed creators actually doing cool stuff.", "I had no idea about any of his “controversy” and have only recently started watching his videos with my husband. My husband is an engineer, and enjoys explaining things in the video to me. It’s been great bonding time for us. \n\nIt’s sad to see that he’s going to quit making those videos we have come to love because of the nastiness and toxicity of humanity. I hope that he can heal and come back if that’s right for him. And for god sakes, people, stop leaving mean comments on GOOD PEOPLE’S videos. We need to preserve the good role models we have. Or soon enough the world will be full of just Jake Paul’s and Kevin Spacey’s.", "This is, single handedly, the most underrated comment of all time. I sympathize so much with this.\n\nLike you, I long to find people who aren't emotionally and cognitively dependent on it. Maybe someday soon I can find a person who can be bothered to look up from their phone or computer.", "Its obviously something shared by many other content creators if you even watched the video. why don't we just not have any content creators. problem solved right?\n\nIts like saying \"If you don't like your job then quit\" like obviously people arn't just constantly in a position where they can just quit their job out of the blue and be fine. maybe you actually live somewhere and have bills to pay? maybe you need to pay off loans? Crazy thought but maybe people actually need to make money to live?\n\nHe still enjoys what he does, but if everyone had to have a job with no downsides and everything about it was enjoyable then no one would be employed\n\nAlso that video isn't monetized so u can chill out now", "Go see a therapist, you're an unhappy person who adds nothing positive to the collective of humanity.", "It's entertainment. Period. If hes smart and he sees the rising trend of subs like /antiwork, large sections of the working class quiting, it's an opportunity to exploit the sympathy. I don't believe any of these people. With 2.5 million subs he's making good money. Hes a bad actor. I went back and watched more of his video after all the bitching on here, and I regret it. That part where he starts to cry and his girlfriend goes and hugs him.. just wow. No god damn shame.", "Totally with you. Watched for 4 minutes trying to see if there was a point being made. Guy just whining, about \"99% loved his content but that xxx (unintelligible) was unbearable \". And to see it was a 20+ minutes video. I'm not watching that.", "Let me explain the irony behind your comment. Your upset with me because you think my comments are mean and pointless, maybe you think I'm negative, a bully possibly. Then you go on to bully me. Lmao. I love you bro and I'm allowed to have an opinion about a YouTuber.", "I never said that did I? \nHe doesn't control how people react; asking people not to is the literal extent of his control in that regard. \nI don't need to, insulting someone and behaving in a condescending manner is by definition vitriol (e.g. bitter criticism) and moreover was the point \n\n\nYes, it wasn't the best way to highlight and express his frustrations over the frequent nasty/hurtful comments he + many others receive. That doesn't make the impact on those on receiving magically disappear \n\nIt's hardly surprising that sustained acute stress can result in a lapse of judgement. We're all only human, no-one is perfect \n\nRather than getting caught up on semantics; having a little empathy can make a world of difference when someone is having a hard time", "I think people focus way too much on the top and bottom when it comes to positivity.\n\neither you eat it up and become a twat if you weren't one already or you end up psychologically hurt by the bottom ones.\n\ni like the guy, he always came across quite nice but as soon as your scope hits enough people, there will ALWAYS be some negativity and ALWAYS some positivity. like there is no two ways about that (well, you know what i mean).\n\ni hope he does well thereafter but you'll never please everyone, spending your life trying to make random comments from people you'll never see better or worse is a stupid task but i understand it's damn hard to avoid. \n\nwhen these sorts of videos comes out, it basically just dilutes out the middle, you end up with a concentration of cookie cutter positive phrases that mean nothing and the worst sorts sort of distillate out for people to either see or get hammered depending on how good well they're liked or how good the apology is.\n\nit sucks for him though given his feelings how the last video will almost certainly bring out the worst of the comments for him (both good and bad). best of luck bud.", "But he knew they would, and as a creator with a platform that leaves him with that responsibility. \n\nIts very ‘won’t someone rid me of this meddlesome priest.‘ \n\nVitriol is defined as cruel and bitter criticism. What part of his comments is cruel lol. He’s a dumbass, not cruel. \n\nHe edited that video, uploaded it, went through multiple days worth of steps to harass the guy, and never once thought to think “hmm maybe this is too far for a funny bit”? That’s a long lapse in judgement. \n\nI’m not defending him either. But you really seem to want to say “it’s okay he did it, because the other guy deserved it”. It’s not wrong to say they’re both wrong.", "It's different when it's in high school and when it is a community of online anonymous trolls. Totally different. He does have the right to be pissed and tired obviously. He even has the right to make a video about it. But this will only increase the trolling and abuse, if he doesn't quit making content entirely.", "I can't describe how appreciative I am of this man's vulnerability and truth here.", "Yes people can't be arsed with negative shit", "I don t see why he'd even give half a shit what some random nobody says about him. He's a successful YouTube who makes videos that are entertaining. If I were in his shoes, all I'd have to do is look at my success and laugh at any dipshit who said anything untrue and negative about me.", ">asking people not to is the literal extent of his control in that regard\n\nI think it's a common enough thing now that it's not hard to anticipate. It's pretty much a rule of thumb that no matter how much you clarify not to harass someone, there's going to be a vocal portion of your fanbase that does it anyway. Does that make it his fault? Well no, but also...I mean the \"literal extent of his control\" in that regard would be to just not show that specific comment at all. He had total control over whether or not to show that specific person, blurred name or not, and he chose to anyway. I know it was to make a specific point but when the possible outcome is that that person will be harassed because of your actions you, the creator, kind of need to step back and ask yourself if that extra detail in your argument is worth that risk. Could have easily just made the same point without the specifics.\n\nAnd this all goes back to the original point of this video, that the internet is this scary, ridiculous void of psychotic strangers who will put you on a weird pedestal and do all sorts of weird shit, so like I get wanting to leave especially after a situation like that. But still I do think it's a bit of a bad faith argument saying he couldn't have done anything to prevent it.", "I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet. Comments and criticism would have to be delivered to me by a trusted friend. They would filter out all the noise and repeats, and report to me in a concentrated, condensed form the general and concrete comments and criticism that people have. The goal is to basically not have all the criticism front-and-center and in-your-face. And not be innately aware of how many critics you have, or who they are, and not have the urge to reply to them. This can also have the advantage that you'll be receiving the criticism from someone you know from an actual in-the-flesh human being who has a voice and a face, instead of from an anonymous, faceless, voiceless, featureless xxxDragonSlayer. This right-hand-man would be like a butler / body guard / food tester but for my ego.", "It amazes me that I can watch at least couple hours of Youtube every day, have for the last 5 years, and have absolutely zero idea who people like this person are. Millions of subscribers, years and years worth of videos, and I do not know this mans face, channel name or type of content.", "Thank you for posting this.\n\nI see a lot of people saying he's \"wholesome\" and \"unproblematic\" but that video where he named the guy and pinned his comment was quite petty.\n\nEveryone attacked the guy until he had to shut down his socials.\n\nYes, what the guy said sucked. But I feel sorry for him.\n\nAs a result William got a late of hate and now he's quitting.\n\nNeither one deserved to get driven off the internet. But neither of them were complete angels in the situation.", "I think a lot of people take for granted what it's actually like to have millions of eyes on you, even in the case of niche internet celebrities. You truly, truly don't know what the experience is like having literally millions of comments from strangers criticizing you, praising you, psychoanalyzing you, making threads, making videos, coming up with theories about your personal life, etc. etc. can actually do to your brain. \n\nIt's very easy to be on the other side of the screen and just think \"oh yeah I guess that could be hard in some respects but psh whatever just don't read the comments\" but it goes beyond that especially when a fundamental part of the job kind of requires you to stay in touch with your fandom. And pushing that aside, I don't think it's fair to say that it's just simply an ego thing. The human mind isn't really designed to conceptualize millions of people talking about you on all corners of an abstract network like the internet. We were made for small tribes, and even then there's a difference between knowing that a lot of people know and are talking about you vs. those comments being at your fingertips at all points in time. Ironically enough you're demonstrating exactly what's being talked about here with this comment you probably wrote in 2 seconds and didn't think much of, but of course those comments do tend to find their way back to creators in this way and that. They're still human.\n\nI really think if you suddenly became famous with millions of followers tomorrow, you wouldn't be saying shit like that and you'd be surprised how hard it would be to not be affected by things people said about you - even if you never read any of it.", "I’m sure you annoy the shit out of the people around you irl.", "He mentions his subreddit and that someone will make a comment that sucks and the thing that hurts most is that it gets upvotes.", "maybe watch the video better you fucking idiot.", "The whole point of his video was that his video's bring in negativity and make him and even his family a punching bag for the internet. He also goes on to explain everything you want to respond to this comment with, so just maybe watch the video or don't comment so negatively", "What a dumbass take. You're a complete moron if this is what you really think, honestly just delete your account", "The closing story of William driving over frogs is a metaphor of famous YouTubers driving over YouTube frogs.", "^ did you take no lesson away from the video? Why do you continue to use mean comments?", "You missed him interviewing other famous social media stars and getting their perspective.", "You may be old, but you are not wise.", "I've seen it time and again from various 'levels' of content creator. You cannot ignore the hate. Human brains don't work like that. No matter how much you know; it's just trolls being cunts, it doesn't mean anything, it shouldn't matter to you.....it will eat at you. It's insidious.", "I mean, I'm pretty sure hes done.\n\nIts titled \"I'm done.\"", "Seriously. It's only been like 5 seconds.", "Then don't and also don't post a negative comment, move on with your life. Why take the time to add your negativity to the pile if you don't care?", "Calm down", "Imagine someone going through your account dating a year ago saying the recolor you made on someone else's art has more has more upvotes than your own OC. Or that one comment saying it was better before recolored when you got positive comments. Imagine that on a scale of x1000 comments\n\n\nThen again, compared to him and work that he does and yours, it's really no comparison. He worked many hours, blood sweat and tears into his while most of your posts are on r/no. The most upvotes that you have is 100+ and you'll never ever get any more upvotes than that. \n\nIf that doesn't bother you, you moved on and don't attack me. Then good. If it does and you decide to attack me because it offended you, then that's how he feels on a major scale. Not everyone is the same.", "what makes you think the contract was \"intentionally misleading\"? He does not post the text for viewers to read but he stresses that people should actually read the shit they sign. makes me think it was obvious if the guy actually read it. on top of that he called him and interviewed him with his real voice. Also, it was not a video about tricking an innocent commenter. it was about confronting an over confident asshole who is accusing an honest creator of being a fucking fraud.\n\nIt's asking a cunt what make him think he knows what he's talking about. oh he doesnt know what hes talking about hes just a cunt.", "If you believe any of these people, your the fool not me.", "These people are human too, are you suggesting they cannot relay their human experiences without it being fake?\n\nThe reason you have such distrust is because content is naturally incentivized to lie and exaggerate to become more and more interesting. There is a “Hollywood effect” where fictitious and dramatized narratives play better than reality. However, this doesn’t mean everything is fake.", "the idea was that Im just one person, and if my comment stings at all, imagine coming across hundreds of those. I was trying to be shitty on purpose to illustrate that it does not take a million people hating you to feel bad. Bad execution i guess, I dont actually think youre and idiot u/FurryModem. But i want to point out that he mentions that 95-99% of the comments are positive. Then every fucking person he talks to says how hurtful that tiny number of commenters actually is. and then a whole bunch of other youtube celebrities leave comments in solidarity.", "Does he make money from views? He's full of shit.", "You knee-jerk responded without digesting what I wrote.\n\nAnother sign of an immature mind.", "We disagree. You think I have to agree with you. I don't. I think your stupid lol", "I mean, you call others stupid while using “your” instead of “you’re”.\n\nYour comments are self-defeating.", "Love you bro.", "Alexa play Cry Me a River\n\nBetween his Patreon and his YouTube ad revenue he's probably making about 10 to 20K a month.\n\nWhat real job is he going to get that pays that much?", "The guy who was using his real name to talk shit on the internet about something he wasn't qualified for and objectively wrong about got called out for it oh no", "That's like 100-200k a year. He could easily do an engineering job for around that kind of money. Fuck are you talking about.", "Man... he has 2.5 million subscribers. He needs to grow up. Bit sad.", "Good point. I forgot he had an actual career before YouTube.\n\nI've heard the same thing from D-List Shane Dawson types - 25 year olds that never had a job outside of being storytime vloggers, make up videos, or \"pranks\" and thought what are they going to do without YouTube? Work at McDonald's?\n\nEven if he does have a fallback career nothing's going to be as good as working for yourself making videos of doing projects you like.", "Be patient with him. He's from Seattle.", "Oh yes, delete my account because the redditor I don't give a shit about told me to. Brilliant idea Skippy, what the hell was the point with your comment?", " The opinion of people you don't know and have no impact on your life is worth literally less than the bytes of data it took for them to write their shitty little opinions. If you actually can't handle it, well the block function exists on most social media sites for a reason, and you can always run bots to auto block people before they even comment if you're that desperate.", "I don’t know who he is but he needs a therapist. I’m not joking. A therapist would help him work through these issues. He can focus on controlling what he can control and letting the rest affect him less.", "deep", "actual career?", "We're all deep in that algorithmic bubble they've curated for us.", "goddamn i hate the moral superiority of labelling someone a \"good person\" or a \"bad person\". Get off your high horse.", "Didn't even know he lived in California so seeing that all his shit burned down hit me like a mf.", "All you are clarifying here is that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Everyone thinks exactly like you say. I’m saying that despite that, it gets to everyone regardless.", "You know, sometimes you just get fed up. That's it. And it is even more annoying because you can't say anything \"negative\" (meaning against the already established opinion) about a post. \nMaybe you could try and read what I and op wrote, and really ask yourself if we don't have a valid point. For the time length I watched the video, this guy couldn't finish one sentence!", "Wow. \n\nI don't know why you'd \"even give half a shit what some random nobody said to you.\"\n\nSeems to me you should have just \"laughed at the dipship saying something negative\"?\n\nI mean, if you can't keep your cool over something as low-stakes as a Reddit comment, imagine if this was your livelihood. Doubt you'd last a day.", "😭😭😭 this is so sad", "Please cry more\n\nHaha, someone mad", "Have someone pick out the top x,however many you want to respond to, comments and respond to them.\n\nAka, get a filter.", "Blackmailed???? Do you know what the definition of that word is?", "Yes! This is my intuition too - just have someone condense it for you, pick out some great positive ones, and distill down the constructive critisism. Of course, then you have to spend someone's time to do that, but damn, I imagine it'd be super valuable.", "Yup. I miss being able to stumble upon things and have weird videos autoplay.", "why not ... you know ... turn off comments and likes and shit", "Some people just can't handle any amount of negative comments, and will completely tunnel vision on the slight amount of negativity. I've seen it with other people and it's really weird. I'm not blaming them, but it's just kind of silly to worry about 5 negative comments out of 1000 positive ones.\n\nI've seen others who will literally get in a giant internet fight because one guy said something bad about them. Just some random dude and they can't let it go. Like pro athletes who get into twitter beefs with rando's who say some other guy is better. It blows my mind.\n\nThere is only one solution and that is to stop caring about some random internet trolls. Just do your thing and stop obsessing over what other people think.\n\nSeriously, the internet isn't real, and this guy is actually stressed out over what is likely some 17 year old just writing a dumb comment without thinking about it.", "You can ignore it though. Many many people do. There are many celebrities who never lets it bother them, just laugh it off, or just completely ignores it. For some people that is clearly harder.\n\nBut it is a learnable skill. To stop caring about random peoples opinions. At least as you get older most people stop caring at a certain point.\n\nLike i've seen people who get mad on reddit when people call them names or downvotes them. There's a certain type of person who cannot handle this type of stuff.", "My thoughts are all over the place, because it's a complex enough a topic that I see both sides of the coin.\n\nTo me, here's the critical issue that it boils down to: a lack of communication. While I empathize with William, he waited until the breaking point to express a lot of things he should have years ago. And some might say \"It's none of your business,\" but perception is reality, a super powerful and scary truth, especially to those in entertainment. If you don't control the narrative, people will speculate, and it'll become toxic and fester.\n\nLearning to be earnest with one's audience on a frequent basis I feel is the solution. I totally get that it's easier said than done, but it's so much worse to not say anything until a complete mental burnout.", "This is why you hire social media managers who filter out the most negative shit, keeps the constructive criticism, filters out the non constructive positive feedback and shields the public person from the filth. You do not interact directly, at least not without some stakes, some investment that the person wanting to talk to a public person can lose. It is odd to think, at least to me but small monetary thing can be a cure. You are much less likely to get the worst kind of scum to pay to insult. \n\n\nKind of amazed that William would still read social media about him, i like him but i can easily understand how some are going to find him unlikeable. It wouldn't take much for him to become an ahole but gladly has been the same guy as long as i can remember.", "Gonna call it out, but this is an example of what he is talking about.\n\nDo you know him? No \nDo I know him? No.\n\nShould either of us be commenting on his mental health based on a video that we see on the internet? Honestly, it's none of our business.\n\nNo homo/definitely homo, I love this guy, and totally empathise with his position.", "Ah, you’re one of those YouTube comment people …", "Reinforce their biases? Talking down on someone and their girlfriend because their house burned down is reinforcing their bias? Nah, these people are just bad people. Simple as that. There's definitely a \"bad\" group on the internet. A group that's just negative ALL THE TIME. These people need to touch grass some time.", ">People don't want you to be successful.\n\nMisha Mansoor (guitarist from a band called Periphery) spoke about this exact issue not long ago, where fans seemingly want to support you and want you to be successful, but if you get that success and you get to have cool guitars and amps to invest into that thing they love you so much for... suddenly you're a sellout, or you're somehow spoiled by all that success that... they wanted you to have in the first place. It's as if some fans want you to sit on this weird, nonexistent line where you're a cool indie guy with barely enough money for food and rent, but also you have all the fame and success to do everything you aspire to.", "I mean, this a pretty good example of what he was talking about right here... You don't know him. You don't know what he's doing outside of his videos. He could very well be in therapy, but that's not really any of our business... (And it's certainly no one's business to decide from a video).", "Just because you have an opinion about something, doesn't mean it's worth sharing...", "Can’t deny trolls exist. Back in high school before the internet, I was telling someone I was away the previous day because my golden retriever died. Dude ran over and screamed at me “THEN DONT FUCK HIM IN THE ASS SO HARD!” High fives his friends and laughed hard. I couldn’t quit school. If I transfer it would be more of the same.", "You know what I do when I get fed up with a video? Click away and move on. If I'm not interested in a video I've clicked on, the last thing I'm going to do is get into an argument about it in the comments section. What are you gaining here?", "Fuck off, you are the problem", "Easier said than done I'm afraid", "Because that option sucks", "As a therapist, it's never that easy. Water and a duck's back mean little to a heavily insulted man.", "I'm not going to say he's \"weak\", but he's clearly not psychologically capable of being an artist, or at least does not have the discipline to simply not read comments if he's not capable of handling the negative ones. So he should move on and find something else to do in life that will make him happy.", "Maybe there is insecurity buried somewhere result in the person so hanging on to the matter. Also that go found me as a independent matter so sensitive, where people kept poking at it probably wasn’t good either.", "When you make yourself public, then you are setting yourself up for judgement. Even on smaller venues like personal FB pages. My ex-daughter and law set up a go fund me page for my grandson who needed an emergency operation. I took out credit and sent money to help, after all it was my grandson. Many others in the family did the same. Just after the operation, on the same FB page she posted photos from a luxury trip to Branson, the Ozarks and the Smokey's. This was a trip I could never afford, especially now that I was in debt. I felt swindled and Flimflammed. I assume so did others. How stupid to post these pics so close to an emergency event that many people with limited funds none the less contributed to assist. I think someone on YouTube should be wiser.", "Driving on a road littered with frogs and having to drive over them is a pretty good analogy for the being a creator on the internet.", "but ... money ...", "Your thought process is genuinely mind-boggling.", "Dude you are a fucking turd. Send your brain back you got a defective one.", "People actually be like \"I love William Osman but I think his videos are dogshit now. Who else agrees?\" like... no reasoning whatsoever, no \"I want more content like this\" just like \"he bad now\"... go fucking watch something else if you don't like his stuff now, you're not entitled to his content.", "> People can't downvote the garbage comments\n\nYes you can. YouTube just doesn't show the downvote number.", "This isn't just a YouTube problem. It is a problem with all social media as well as outlets like cable news. We know that people more strongly engage when they are anxious or angry. That is human nature and the places where we receive and share information are incentivized to promote those things that garner engagement.\n\nThis is something humanity needs to figure out. Complaining about media doing what they know works is like telling a corporation to do social good over profit. Some will but ultimately the winners are those who play the game to win.", "Imma come out and say, I'm really sorry you went through that.\n\nI've also acquired debt to help a loved one and have to say, i hope you learned from it too... Never enter debt without talking to your loved one. Or even better: only provide monetary help that you can afford out of pocket\n\nOnce you given the money, they owe you nothing. It's their money, they may buy a Tesla and i should not care cause it's not my money anymore... As far as they got the surgery done, of course. I don't know if you think the same.\n\nSame would apply for your daughter in law. It's her money now. You know? I don't think she should be thinking of the optics before posting a picture enjoying a nice trip.\n\nBesides that, I hope that you get to get out of debt soon and go on a fun trip to celebrate, but for now it fucking sucks and I'm sorry it happened to you.", "No, it's literally not \"the literal extent of his control.\" He could have chosen not to dox and catfish the guy for the crime of being wrong on the internet.", "Sounds like shes conflating two different groups.", "Also a YouTuber here but not successful to anywhere near this degree lol. But I feel this, you get addicted to the fans who enjoy your content but the loudest minority are mad at you for any level of success or really anything you achieve.\nGod forbid you also try to make a living", "\"She\" being Misha? He's a dude. But no, there's no conflating. As William said in this video, being relatable leads to success, and success kills your relatability -- even if it doesn't change you in the slightest, it changes everyone else's perspective of you.", "Most people don't want to do a job that requires you to see a therapist just to be able to continue doing.", "Internet has always and always will be a shit sandwich, I dont know where people got the notion that it is infact a \"Wonderous place where dreams come alive\" its been a place to complain, harass, and bully people almost since it was released to the public. Social Media just made it more mainstream, and allowed it to reach a broader inexperienced group", "I don't really agree with this.\n\nI think he's explained his situation well, and he's not just a depressed, poor mental state person. He has an issue with the commenters and the videos he makes.\n\nYou can be an advocate for mental health without going around over exaggerating and poorly diagnosing everyone. He has clearly already thought about it and has come to a decision about how to best help himself here; he doesn't automatically need therapy because of some nonsense about mannerisms.\n\nImagine being this affected by comments, then reading someone else telling you that you need therapy. I know your intentions aren't bad here but I think that most people who feel compelled to give this sort of in depth analysis or advice about public figures online need to stop and think a bit more. It's the ugliest side of social media, Reddit included. And just because you think you're being nice, as every single workplace, advert or discussion nowadays will harp on about mental health, it doesn't mean that we are all suddenly qualified to comment or are right to do so.", "Right, because social bubbles, political extremism, hatred, and misery didn't exist before social media.", "The Internet is a HATE MACHINE.\n\nIf you ever asked why anyone in 1984 would \"build\" or deploy0\\ a \"hate machine\" for general public use, once you realize its just the Internet, it makes a lot more sense.", "Is he complaining because he is making money...? Jesus christ, go get an actual job if you don't like making YouTube videos. Ignore the \"negativity\" or go work a 9-5. Holy fuck internet people are weird.", "Oh yes, poor Youtubers lmao. Next time I feel burnt out at my job digging ditches that pays a small fraction of what this guy makes remind me to make a 20 minute video about it lol", "What’s even worse is a lot of people being assholes out there won’t have even the slightest modicum of remorse. They’ll genuinely think “What a baby he needs to have thicker skin”", "In the worst case you end up with a cesspool of bitterness like /r/rantgrumps. \n\nFor the life of me I do not understand why people dedicate so much time to something they feel nothing but disdain for. It costs literally nothing to just avoid this thing you don't like.", "I agree with you entirely. In the past when loaning money, my policy was never loan anything you won't forgive if they don't pay you back. Just learn from it and never loan them money again. This situation was different and presented as a heartfelt plea, enough so that I did what I did. And it was a gift with no expectation of repayment. She is so thick headed, I don't think she realized just how bad it would look posting those pics right after the go fund me campaign. I'm still paying off that debt. Good news is my grandson graduated HS and went on to a successful career in the Army. I'm very proud of him. 👍", "Things (and people) change. Sometimes it takes a generation or two, but it can and does happen. Just look at something like smoking. Even though it was backed by big corporations with deep pockets for legal defense and advertising, rates declined pretty quickly over the course of a couple generations when people started realizing what was going on.\n\nThere are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly.\n\nOnce you realize it's an addiction and start treating it as such, it can be manageable. I'm sure having facebook 'interventions' will be a common thing in a few years lol.", "Then stop bitching and become a youtuber if it's so great. Truth is that the youtuber could probably dig a ditch if needed, but I bet you couldn't make a Youtube video that gets a million views if your life depended on it.", "It's definitely a lot worse.", ">There are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly.\n\nThe responsible thing is to use it at little as possible. Social media is poison to the brain.", "We've built our own website (neighborhood-level local news) that still includes all the feedback options et al that so many newspapers and media outlets have foregone. We also operate under responsible and privacy-forward Terms of Service that prioritize our users and members, part of our trust-based business model. \n\nDue to our economy of scale and the fact we can control our community, membership, moderation, etc., we have no issues with spam, trolls, etc. Of course, this is a much smaller community, but in terms of producing content and then allowing (and being affected by) feedback, we're doing this in our arena and according to our rules. \n\nThe only way to win with these giant sociopathic platforms is not to play their game.", "There's a name for it: Outrage porn. The emotional outrage triggers the part of our monkey brains that evolved to support tribalism. The YouTube/social media movement is just another form of the same thing we see in politics, where we are in support of our in-group (the political party, YouTube personality, social media/celebrity persona, ect.) and vehemently against the others, the out-group. This happens to people on both side of issues if they let their monkey brains do the thinking and not find a way to distance themselves, using logic and empathy.", "So while we can keep track of your negative points, we can’t give negative points to a shitty YouTube comment, effectively making their downvote button pointless.", "YouTube might hide highly downvoted comments, or at least promote highly upvoted comments. ¯\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯ \nI don't know what they do with it, I'm just saying there is technically a downvote button.", "Oh man, why does such a cool username have to be attached to such a douche :(", "1% of millions of people still is a lot of people. 1% negative comments still amounts to thousands of negative comments. Sucks that people treat people like this online.", "Will, why are you reading this? I'm a dim YouTube/reddit addict who knows nothing about anything. Love you though.", "Same energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ch0yU5jhA", "Make a Patreon. Pay a moderator. Only read comments from Patreon.", "Not sure why you're getting downvoted to oblivion. I didn't know who William Osman was until this thread. But some guy is confident online and a bit of a jerk is not validation for creeping him, catfishing, setting up a fake interview to try and embarrass him to millions of viewers.\n\nThat's fucked up levels of escalation.", "dont read the comments? do it for yourself? zzzzzzz", "its obviously a clickbait title. whos trolling who now", "But 31 thumbs up and 2950 thumbs down are still gonna show up as +31.", "There's people in this very thread saying almost exactly that verbatim.", "That is what I do most of the time, move on. When I said fed up, it was not all about the video, it was about OP being downvoted to hell for saying this is a really stupid video. And I was answering to him/her, like saying, hey you're not crazy, this is a stupid video.\n\nI didn't want an argument, but as people replied to my comment I wanted to try and explain my reasoning. As I said above, I was just replying to OP.", "I'm not allowed to have opinions, I know. This is 2021 and I better believe every word a Youtuber says, it's gospel.", "I think the reality is that thousands of channels just like his, chock full of goodness and enormous entertainment value, exist on YouTube. You can’t possibly know about them all and consume your favorites.", "I just recently found and subbed to Osman's channel and agree completely. I often hear these people get upset, and then I ask myself, \"Where is it coming from?\" I think it's easy to hear a noisy source and think it's a large percentage, but those people are the fringe.\n\nThe flip side is, I get it William, I get it. When random strangers are rude to me, it always really effects me. I was flying my RC plane at a park two years ago, and a guy in a truck showed up and saw that I had gotten it stuck in a tree. He said to me, \"Looks like you got what you had coming for flying where you shouldn't\". I'm like, \"Excuse me?\" He then informs me it's not allowed, instead of just saying something like, \"Oh man, that stinks, just so you know, you aren't allowed to fly RC planes at this park\", and I would have said, \"Oh, shoot, really? Ok thanks for the tip!\"", "The kicker is that half the people there are so broken they probably wouldn't be able to handle the amount of criticism they levy on a daily basis.", "Your comment, inadvertent as it is, is a remarkably powerful critique of YouTubers.", "I hope social media works itself out…. The instant free exchange of information could do so much good. People just need to choose to be less shitty overall and not to engage with shittyness", "is it though?", "William, the haters, his fans.\n\nhttps://imgur.com/gallery/H9DlQWf", "William, you gotta remember, you're engaging with people from all age ranges, all life backgrounds, all over the world. So many of those people making shit comments will be edgy kids and teens, or messed up adults. I know it's still hard, but you KNOW those people are messed up, right? Like, I know it's hard to feel bad for them, but those people are messed up and hostile because of shit parents, shit lives, or both.", "You watched someone talking about a hard time they're going through and instead of just acknowledging that their feelings are valid even though it's not how you would feel in their shoes you decided to be an ass. You have no empathy for someone just because they're on the other side of a screen and you can reduce them to their career. I'm tellin ya, there's something wrong with your brain. Notice how almost no one is on your side? That's a sign. Get therapy.", ">> People can't downvote the garbage comments\n> \n> \n> \n> Yes you can. YouTube just doesn't show the downvote number.\n\nThey also don't de-prioritize displaying downvoted comments.", "> YouTube might hide highly downvoted comments, or at least promote highly upvoted comments. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯\n\nThey should but they don't.\n\n>I don't know what they do with it\n\nNothing, as far as I can tell (speaking both as a viewer and a youtuber)", "> I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet.\n\nThere's a lot of celebrities who go to great lengths to avoid reading/watching reviews of their work, specifically for this reason.", "I had a legitimate opportunity to become a full time youtuber years ago but turned it down, and this is why. As my channel grew, more and more of my audience started to include members that felt entitled for me to make my videos a certain way, no matter how much I tried to grow. The 1/100 person that would leave a hate filled comment would fuck up my day, and as my videos got more views those comments became more common. On top of all that I was trying to please both human beings and an omnipotent algorithm that rewards burning yourself out over a healthy work/life balance. I decided to say \"fuck the views,\" started to relax and make content I enjoyed, and got another job instead to pay the bills.\n\nWhile I'm sad to see Osman go through this, I'm happy to see him actually taking steps to take care of himself. YouTube is not the dream job everyone thinks it is, and so many people realize that too late. I hate seeing good and creative people kill themselves (metaphorically but sometimes literally) just because they think the opportunity is too good to let pass, when really that opportunity is just poison they're mistaking for a cure.", "It's showbusiness, it'll eat you alive. Gotta have the right personality to fend that shit off, and if you don't you need to have a therapist coach to help you deal with it. Look at movies back in the 20's they were talking about how the media eats people...this isn't new...but it is terrible and harmful and I empathize with him.\n\nStill, it is strange that he seems surprised by this, as if YouTube isn't part of the new media. It really is. A star is a star, and people will start wishing upon you...not all the wishes are good ones...gotta wear the kid gloves.", "> I was bullied in high school, and that whole line of \"Don't give them the acknowledgement they want\" is bullshit. It absolutely is.\n\nThe most effective way to deal with them is often to shine the brightest possible spotlight on their shitty behavior.\n\nUnfortunately, most bullying victims get so badly beaten down that they no longer have the strength to do that.", "Yeah I should get therapy because I don't trust a guy on YouTube with 2.5 million subs positing a \"I'm done\" video crying. That hasn't been done before 10k times. Totally not fake and designed to get subs. Maybe you're gullible and should get therapy? Maybe don't believe every stupid YouTube post at face value?", "Love you bro.", "Then when you stumble upon these channels and have a plethora of back catalogue to watch, it's great.\n\nTwo new creators I've discovered lately (a gardener from new Zealand and an American/Italian couple that make food videos) have been seemingly randomly offered up by the algorithm.", "It's almost as if \"fans\" involves more than one person.", "Ayyy randomly found a Periphery fan.", "YTCB (YouTube Creator Burnout) claims another.", "If I ever say something \"not nice\" it would be constructive criticism with a detailed explanation coming from the point of, \"I wouldn't say this if I didn't love your content\". I wonder if they just find that stuff annoying?", "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but social media comments make me quit. \n\nHe makes content 90% of people will enjoy, has popularity and will ultimately get 99% positivity for this video. \nsmall content creators don't get any of that and still just get the abuse, just take the rough with the smooth. \n\n\nguys gone through a lot in the last year, just needs to take some space away from it all to gain some perspective. he'll be back", "I make entire [technical animations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMCfZL9HgSk) and get shit on all the time. Big woop. Very much possible. The internet is full of idiots. I was featured in a bloomberg article/video last year watched by several million and got shit on a ton, laughed it off. It's all frame of mind: Fuck douchebags.", "If you didn't want your house to burn down, why did you let it happen instead of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and extinguishing the wildfires.\n\nCheckmate liberals.", "Nah, I'm just here looking for punctuation errors. Now, move along. I have rage to unload.", "He could always work a 9 to 5 if he doesn't like it. That's part of why people are calling him a wus. The alternative to his lifestyle is probably worse. The grass isn't always greener", ">Post hateful comments and harass a guy using your real name\n\n>They don't sit by idly, and you actually face consequences \n\n>SuprisedPikachu.jpeg\n\nIf you don't wanna get doxed, a real easy start is to not use your full name to post your shitty comments onto a public forum lmao.\n\nEdit, Is it even doxing if you are the one to post your real full name online?", "I agree with Wren, it upsets me when I hear a favorite person I watch says they never read comments. I have written some extremely thoughtful comments that might have really uplifted some people, and then I hear there is zero chance they ever saw it, and it makes me a bit sad.", "Glad to see him putting his go fund me money to good use", "Can YouTube PLEASE make the dislike button actually do things on comments! Make it possible for people to go negative like Reddit. Hide comments that get too many dislikes etc.", "William Osmon?", "I'm sure he won't see this but I think a simple change in frame of reference is what he needs. He's stuck on the very few negative comments peppered in with, I'm sure, a lot of really supportive comments. \n\nHis initial assumption seems to be \"all comments should be good\". It needs to be \"there will be negative comments\". If you accept that there will ALWAYS be negative comments, you limit the power they have. Or at least give each comment equal weight, so the ratio of the negative comments to positive comments is vastly outweighed. \n\nI understand you can't really rationalize impacts on mental health. But I think putting a little more context around the comments would help. And the people making the comments surely are struggling with their own issues.\n\nIt's messed up, but the negative commenters are deriving some kind of pleasure from bringing others down. They have their own world of problems that have no relevance to his videos. Their comments are fired off haphazardly. Probably one of a dozen nasty quips on different videos that day. So you have to treat their impact in the same way -- just errant shots fired at random.", "“Nastiness and toxicity of humanity” -Exhibit A", "Don't log in with an account. It helps a lot.", "gotem", "But it's not a stupid video, its a video to his fans telling them why he is stopping doing videos. Not every video needs to be interesting to you. You aren't the main character of the internet.", "> Even if he does have a fallback career nothing's going to be as good as working for yourself making videos of doing projects you like.\n\nyeah that's been going real well for him, you can tell he's very satisfied with how it's going by watching the video", "YouTube just keeps recommending me the same videos I have already watched. Discovering new shit through YouTube is a waste of time.", "Then you just end up in youtube crazy land with the demons and the flat earthers and the crystal people and the \"everyone but Donald Trump is a pedophile\" channels. \n\nAnd no, if you're wondering it's not nearly as fun as it used to be. Now they have a Jim Jones and spend all their time singing praise for their savior. It's dull.", "Im not saying his feelings arent valid, I have no idea what hes going through. \n\nBut \n\nIn the videos he makes going through hate comments, he hard core cherry picks the ones that hurt his feelings. Ones with 0 upvotes. Like, 'I hate you.\" You would have to be scrolling to page 50 to find this comment. \n\nAgain, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy. \n\nI also dont like making this second point, because I find it annoying. But I feel it fits. Being a successful youtuber is pretty privliaged, regardless of what happens to you are where you came from. You make more money than most people will ever make in their lifetime. \n\nPay a person to moderate chat. There is a modicum of intent when you are reading past page 2 of comments. You have to take some responsibility for that.", "Downvotes are essential for a healthy forum. Over a certain population, the advantage of downvotes goes away a bit (as there can collect a critical mass of idiots and assholes), but at the level of engagement a single youtube video gets, they'd make a huge difference in squelching said idiots and assholes.", "Negativity thrives within anonymity. And negativity somehow gets a lot of people going more than positivity does.\n\nI dont understand it, but thats they way it is. To me, all the negativity is exhausting. I have a buddy who has a snarky comment about literally everything - every game is shit, a rip off or isnt doing enough of a certain thing. Every movie or tv show are soulless cashgrabs. All sports are just boring and full of divas. I cant actually think of anything the man DOES like. It just puts a dampener on a lot of discussions when he has to bring it all down every time.\n\nStarting to suspect the man is clinically depressed yet somewhat functioning.", "Yes it is.", "It's no doubt true that people without social skills are overrepresented on the internet, and they make the rest of us a bit worse. Media (social and otherwise) also seems to have caught on that negative emotions are more immediate and visceral than positive ones. So algorithms and program directives feed that without even trying.\n\nThe awareness that you're expressing helps a lot though. Now when I open something if the first thing I see is complaining, my brain goes \"Oh, I get it.\" It isn't like they have a problem I can solve by wallowing in it with them. They have misery, and they want my company so it can be even stronger tomorrow.\n\nWhich is not to say there aren't problems, but I only want to hear about them from people who can show context and perspective. Steven Pinker's book Enlightenment Now is a good example of both. He uses data to show that the world is getting better in many of the criteria that people complain about. But he also calls out Global Warming as a threat, and in a book full of positivity it's all the more impactful.\n\nFor me the key, in addition to getting off the web when I can, is trying to cultivate that community. My Twitter follows are precisely pruned and I never look at \"trending\". And on Reddit I try to limit my subs and watch carefully. And I'm happily surprised to say that sometimes the bigger subs are more positive. E.g. this same post is in videos and mealtimevideos, and the latter has a couple people with some variation on \"fuck him\". I could let that get me down, but instead I see them for what they are and prefer to take inspiration from thoughtful comments like your own.", "How can we tell? have their been studies done?", "I think a part of it is that \"YouTube famous\" isn't viewed the same as \"movie famous\" when they absolutely are not different.", "\"Not psychologically cable of being an artist\". Does that make sense when you read it back to yourself? Do you know a thing about art? Alot of great art is made by those unwell.", "That’s not true. Each of his videos has thousands of comments. Not millions.", "Lol, it's not doxxing if the user in question uses their first and last as their username.", "> Need to be relatable to be successful.\n> Being successful makes you lose relatability.\n\nI found that was a good comment from him.\n\nIt kind of extend to what you are saying.\n\nBut to be fair, I wouldn't be able to do that. What people fail to see is that there is some truth in the bad comments. As a creator you can't ignore them, some are useful. But it's hard because it will feel like you aren't good enough. When you look back at your \"work\" you will see success (millions of views) and failure (each video has defects that lots of people spotted) and there will only be one person to blame: yourself.\n\nIt's actually the combination of being self employed and having tons of visibility that fuel self blame. Most celebrities don't work alone and have feedback that is both more honest and less harsh because given by a human that knows you.", "Okay so I get your point, and I worded my original comment very poorly. I was just trying to say that I don’t see why he listens to the negative comments when such a small portion of his comments are negative. Personally I get a plenty of negative comments on my YouTube videos that I spent a long time making, but I don’t take that negativity and let it impact me. I do what I love, and if the people who are being negative don’t like it, they can leave. My like ratio is about 4:1, so for every 4 likes I get, there is one dislike. William gets so much positive feedback and such a small amount of negative feedback in comparison to me, and all I was saying is that I’m not sure how he sees the negative comments and only listens to those, without paying any attention to all the thousands of positive comments.\n\nI deleted my original comment because, reading it again, I realize that it seems as though I am trying to be an asshole when that is not what I am trying to be. I understand that the amount of negativity in his comments is large, but i feel as though the positivity should be payed more attention to.", "Hmm, my product sense is tingling...\n\nIntroducing EgoGuard™, your personal AI social media assistant! EgoGuard™ uses its powerful patented natural language processing technology to read your comments for you and generate a report condensing your audience's feedback and informing you of recurring sentiments, with adjustable filters for what categories of sentiment you're interested in seeing.\n\nStart connecting with the fans you care about today, with EgoGuard™!", "Osman is still aiming his fans at someone.", "can't he just turn comments off?", "Really the only thing that could be done is for people to attack the shitheads in the comments. It feels better to read a nasty comment if someone is already defending you.", "If he takes it so hard with every little criticism there aren't many jobs he can do. People are bastards everywhere. At least with this job he's not required to read the negativity. Yet he does it any way. Are there posts on Reddit or some where else that you skip because you wouldn't want to see that kind of post? I know there are posts that I skip because of that.", "I think he can't monetize the video if that was the case. He could just not read the comments. Many celebrities don't scour the news and social media because they know it would hurt them. For some reason he keeps going back to something that hurts him.", "> he can't monetize the video if that was the case\n\naah, i see", "What would you say about him reading the comments when he doesn't need to? He could post videos and never need to read the comments ever again. It's like he knows it will hurt him but he does it any way. He could also get someone to copy the comments minus the negative ones if he really needed that positive feedback.", "What evidence are you looking for exactly?", "Same. I'm even into a lot of the stuff this guy apparently does, never heard of him until today.", "If you like back catalogues try Acorn to Arabella, it's wooden boat building but lets be honest most of us don't build wooden boats... just really nicely produced, fascinating content and hundreds of episodes to watch :)", ">Osman can never mention anyone ever", "Didn't need to take it literal, but I can change the wording for you. Small percentage of a huge amount still results in a big amount.", "> an intense incentive to not be a negative piece of shit all day long because people like that lost friends pretty quick.\n\nthat and getting your ass kicked. way easier to be a tough guy or a total douche online when letting mean shit fly out of your mouth doesn't result in a foot rocketing into your cranium.", "And specifically targeting this in the form of outrage porn predates the internet by a long time.", "Well there has always been extremist political movements, isolated populations that have had \"bubble echo chamber\" effects, hatred, and misery. Shit just look at the history of racial, ethnic, and political violence throughout history. I mean, fuck, the holocaust predates the internet and that is just one of a very large list of genocides that does. Then there is the smaller scale, the lynchings, the law backed enforcement of ghetto systems, etc. Then there is the ever present \"oh look some people with a different skin color/religion are getting rich, guess it's time to burn that all down and start killing until they leave\" cycle throughout history. \n\nWithout some sort of proper evidence that things are truly worse there is no way for me to look at history, and the modern day, and say anything more than, maybe, social media is just allowing something that has always been there a mainstream media outlet so it's easier to see, maybe it's gotten worse in some small way because it's now easier for people to connect, for good or bad. Maybe people are just seeing how shitty everything has always been in a granularity they weren't ready for and it just \"feels\" like its worse. Just like how most of the world has much, much, less violent crime than it used to, but if you ask people, many will claim the opposite because they are over exposed to it via media. \n\nSo how are you able to possibly claim it is \"definitely\" worse? I mean definitely is very strong claim, so you must have very strong evidence.", "That's where the therapist comes in, for sure. Many of us, while there might be an external component, are the authors of our own misery. Maybe not on purpose, but at the end of the day the only people any of us truly have control over is ourselves. You cant control someone else, but you are always responsible for how you feel about the things they do.\n\nHe could also just turn comments off entirely. Nothing says he HAS to have comments. But social media doesn't work that way (yes, Youtube is social media as well). This \"poor me\" will launch him further as followers defend him and denounce the bullies. Eventually he will return with an even stronger following.\n\nMaybe I am the older \"pre-internet youth/full digital adult\" generation, but sometimes I feel like these kinds of dramas are almost strategic in nature. Just like wealthy people can sometimes benefit from allowing a foreclosure on a property (aka strategic foreclosure), just because it seems bad doesn't mean there isn't an upside on the backend.", "oh it does\nall of these people are just doing their daily hate metaphorically speaking. Im just saying it makes sense why they do it.\n\nim not saying its ok...but they are using the internet as designed.\nIt distracts from their shitty reality and Will is just fodder for them. hero today, target tomorrow.\n\nI feel for Will. he asks for none of this", "Or read every comment in dale gribble's voice https://www.google.com/search?q=dale+gribble+reads+youtube+comments&oq=dale+gribble+reads+youtube+comments&aqs=chrome..69i57.10957j0j7&client=ms-android-oneplus-rvo3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#", "To borrow a phrase, it may have existed before, but the internet perfected it. The power of always having it at your fingertips, literally in the case of smartphones, has allowed it to reach critical mass and completely take over people's lives, interactions, and mental space.", "Yes, my point was to illustrate that there has been a concerted effort behind outrage porn for a long time. It makes money, so as media evolves it will too, the only way it will stop is for it to not make money.", "Honestly, I think YouTube should have the same system Reddit has, where enough downvotes gets the comment burried or hidden. I think that'd go a long way to resolving some of this. Of course, that puts the responsibility on the users to self-regulate, but it'd help, imo. \n\n\nI have no idea why the human race can be so damn cruel.", "Yes. Yes. I suppose if you want to make art only for private consumption, you could still consider yourself an artist, but to me exposing that work to the public at some point is part of the job.", "Makes me wonder what a hypothetical rate-limited social media platform would look like. If you were only allowed to post once a day and comment on 3-5 things it might make you more considerate of how you're spending your chance to speak.", "good riddens, don't let the door hit you on the way out.", "Less than 0.014% of people disliked his recent video. Let’s set that amount to 0.5% for good measure. 0.023% of all people left a comment. Let’s assume that the same percentage of people who disliked the video also left a negative comment. That would mean 125 people who watched the video also left a negative comment.\n125/25000 people left a negative comment. That would translate to 0.05%. That is nothing. That may as well be no one. Keep in mind that people frequently accidentally click the dislike button, so the accurate number is probably much lower.", "Bruh why are people downvoting this comment. Are y’all fucking stupid? This isn’t a negative comment in the slightest. They are expressing how saddened they are. Read the comment before you downvote it.", "Do people even read comments before they dislike them?", "I never thought of that!", "First of all I don't even know who this guy is, this is reddit front page, not his personal pages. You are also assuming people who say mean shit interact with the like/dislike bar. This video has 1.1 million views, but only 164k interactions on the likes/dislikes bar. Also 0.005% of 25,000 (the amount of comments on the video) is still 125 people. I wouldn't want 125 people saying shit about me, I don't think anyone would like to read 125 negative comments aimed towards them.", "I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean", "No", "You are stupid as hell lmfao", "I'm so confused. You claim to not care about this person or their videos, yet here you are taking time out of your day to write this? Were you were somehow forced to watch this video and therefore inconvenienced in some way? I find that unlikely.\n\nYOU made the decision to open this thread when no one asked you to. YOU made the decision to watch the video when no one asked you to (if you even watched it). YOU made the decision to write your negative comment when no one asked you to.\n\nIf you don't care, why bother writing anything? What you wrote is barely an opinion anyways. It doesn't contribute to the discussion at all.", "\"YouTube frogs\" is a term for YouTuber viewers, commonly used by content creators like Ludwig.\n\nThis entire video is about content creators against the comment section, so it is fitting that they end with a story of running over and killing frogs, because William wants to metaphorically run over and kill the viewers in his comment section.", "It seems like everyone got really angry with you for your comment(s) on this video, which is odd because that's contrary to the end message of this video - my take-away was that an individual's voice can be far more powerful than we think.\n\nI'm sorry that people have said unkind things to you in this comment section. I don't know you and none of these people know you - I'm sure the people in your life value you and enjoy your presence. The internet has trained us to view our own words as \"shouting into a void\" - we're now at the bottom of a comment section of a website where this video was re-posted, and the words we write here still have meaning. Perhaps people shouldn't care what you write in this reddit comment thread, but they do.\n\nI hope you have a good day - please understand that the people who have written specific, unkind things to you are merely reflecting the same attitude from your original comment: a sensation of muteness in a vast, uncaring digital world.", "That really makes me sad. My wife and I love that guy. I remember watching him that RV and my wife started making plans on how to live full time RVing if we ever wanted/needed too. Also, the video where he and Simone Giertz made the Mouse car. \n\nSo, hey, William if you see this. We love your videos. Completely understand. If we never see you online again, We wish you and your caretaker well!", "🤔 No idea. If I meant it in a sarcastic manner, I would've put an /s at the end. Redditors just love to hate.", "That's my main issue with Reddit as a whole. This site certainly has its wholesome moments, but I've found it to be a largely negative, judgmental, and toxic community that cultivates bullying. The well-worded hateful opinions get upvoted the most, so users are always just thinking of how they can roast something for pointless karma.", "I dont know who this is", "I don't think the problem is bandwidth. It's deindividuation and self-selection against stable groups, preferring instead stable norms within groups. Filter bubbles, in other words.", "I speak to America's polarization and hatred of ideological opposition, the decrease in total happiness across the nation, the delay in achievement of meaningful milestones in maturation, the loss of the local community, the real (not just observed) increase in mental health problems and their associated comorbidities, the self-perpetuation of conspiratorial thinking within groups against all evidence to the contrary to a magnitude not yet seen before, the utter willingness to condemn those within one's own tribe at the slightest observed fraction (current or uncovered from the past), and the normalization of many of a social life's components being entirely regulated entirely through online interactions.\n\nThese are all problems that can be laid at the feet of the creation of social media.", "> Fuck off, you are the problem\n\nIn what world is someone who advocates that we not dox people \"part of the problem\"?\n\nWhat problem?\n\nThe problem of people being more civil?", "That's got to exist right? \n\nIt's absolutely a marketable idea and it's got all the right buzzwords for a current/fashionable tech solution.", "His previous video where he tricks someone who left him a mean comment into thinking they got a job offer and interviewing them is extremely creepy. This guy seems very successful, why does he pull stunts like this? Can't he just ignore the 0.1% of comments that are mean? Don't feed the trolls, man.", "Obviously not, the problem is being such a miserable condescending cunt, putting these creators on a pedestal, looking for the slightest misstep to twist and warp into the worst possible interpretation.", "Nah William is in the wrong here.\n\nHe puts as examples some comments that are simple criticism, like his whole shovel thing. There's a difference between people saying you should've used this shovel, to people saying hey you are stupid for using that shovel; but he got equally bothered by both. To the point he doxxed a dude and all of that. That's not a normal reaction.\n\nEven when he says he knows he's wrong because he should 'ignore it'. Yeah ignore the insults and random crazy comments but he means ignore it ALL. He's in a position that there's no way to get to him with constructive criticism..\n\nHe wants everyone to love him, and everyone to praise him and to only receive positive comments, anything less than that, is hate according to him.\n\nIt got to his head, sad.", "Are we reading a different comment? (Maybe you're responding to something else they said somewhere?)\n\nIt doesn't seem condescending, miserable, or worthy of calling someone a cunt. /shrug\n\nAlso, saying that they're \"putting creators on a pedestal\" and \"looking for the slightest misstep\" don't really follow.\n\nThey're opposite sides, motivationally.", "Hopefully it gets better", "The decrease in total happiness has been happening since the early 90's, before social media and it happened before then ticked up again decades later. In fact everything you list has has been going on for decades before it. You still have not yet shown any data that backs up social media being the root cause of the issue. It is easy to see these stats tracked going back decades, some of them for over a century now, with a few minutes of searching. None of them started with, or suddenly spiked during, the invention of social media. In fact almost all of them line up much better with major downturns in the economy as it drops the mean income and the increase of sedentary office work taking over the job market.\n\nSo, again, strong data is needed for your strong claims.", "> Is it even doxing if you are the one to post your real full name online?\n\nNo, of course it's not.", "Are you being a devil's advocate, or do you have a reason for your strong skepticism?", "I feel like more people would like or dislike things of it visibly had an impact.", "How? He's making a video about people making negative and/or unneeded comments. He's not asking for health advice. How does one lead to the other?", "I don't understand the downvotes, everything you said makes sense to me. Then again based on your words I assume you don't care 😂. A side I don't understand people who care about downvotes either.\n\nI guess the problem arises that this guy actually wants to interact with his audience, but due to the negative effect it's having on his life it's clear that he shouldn't.\n\nIn saying all this I'm totally prone to getting sucked into comments, I can handle constructive, honest, polite criticism and complete teardown of my comments if I'm wrong, but as soon as someone comes off as rude, dismissive, obnoxious etc.. it triggers a strong emotional response in me. I don't know why.\n\nI can engage and get wound up, tunnel vision, about nothing with a nobody; or I can just block them and try focus elsewhere.", "> riddens\n\nThe last spatters of rain and wind from a passing storm?", "Mean comments among the nice ones are like a shit floating in a beautiful pool. You're glad to have the pool, but the whole thing becomes gross when you see the shit.", "yeah but he has a point in some of the reasons the echo chambers get so strong is instant feedback/replies and an unlimited amount of content available to sustain any viewpoint. limiting how often everyone can post would definitely weaken the cohesion of these groups and force users to have to go outside their normal filter bubbles to find new content.", "He's saying how he feels and what he is going to do about it, not asking for more parasocial advice and comments.", "I have a reason. I looked up data on everything you have brought up, or have had prior knowledge about it. I really despise most of social media, the corporations that own it, the way it is run, how things like facebook know a shit ton about me even though I have never made and account, downloaded, or visited any of their sites/products. I do think it's a vector for shitty humans. \n\nHowever people seem to be blaming social media for just about everything wrong with the world today rather than take a look at themselves. We, as a species, have been heavily involved with all these ills for a very long time, possibly for our entire existence, in one form or another. There is a lot of information about the negative affects of social media out there, but none of it is unique to social media it's self. Every form of human interaction brings these things with them. I have yet to see any data showing that social media has done anything except, maybe, increase the speed, and distance, at which humans can communicate our problematic behaviors. I have yet to see a single broad issue you have pointed out that began with social media. When you look all these issues, they predate it, and it doesn't actually show some gigantic shift suddenly happen with the introduction of it. Until I get some serious data otherwise I can not say for sure social media causes all these things you have claimed it to cause, from what is out there it looks more like the problem is, and always has been, people. \n\nShow me I am wrong with actual research. Until then it's just blaming the new thing for everything wrong with people, yet again.", "So it all just \"comes with the business\" then? That putting out content is a license for whatever bounces back?", "You're stupid as hell lmfao", "You sound like a bad person.", "[huh](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cringe)", "Will has made questionable choices. Those videos he did when he had that house fire have a clickbaity title and thumbnail in retrospect.\n\nIt's no fucking wonder those conspiracies about it cropped up. I want to say it gradually ruined his channel over the past three years.", "Also lost everything in a fire. When he was talking about his go fund me and the tesla and disney... god I felt that. I had people absolutely swarming around me asking if I was ok, people offering to start a go fund me, and it got so exhausting. I went from telling the whole story to just having the 1477483rd person come up to me with great intentions asking about it and all I could get out was \"I made it out alive and I am learning to get over it\". I felt guilty leaving my home to try and just forget about what happened (also lost a friend that same week), but the guilt never left. It took a while to let myself move on and try to start fresh. I cannot imagine the stress of having that kind of thing publicised for millions of strangers to see.\n\nWhatever William does, I just want him to be happy. If moving on from youtube helps, so be it. He put in a lot of hard work. He deserves to me able to close the chapter and move on with his family.", "Yeah so why doesn't the content creator just ignore the comments they don't want to see? Especially considering the amount of positive comments dwarf the negative ones. It seems like YouTubers/streamers are the only group who doesn't have to learn how to ignore mean comments. I mean shit isn't that something we all learn as kids? Not everyone will like you. It's not the end of the world.", ">Again, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy.\n\nI've noticed this problem with other YouTubers lately too.\n\nTechmoan has been also guilty of this. He over-explains himself to supposed \"calm down\" the people that criticize him for not doing something right or what not. It comes off as condescending to the people that love his content. I unfortunately un-subbed from him as a result.", ">I hate seeing good and creative people kill themselves (metaphorically but sometimes literally)\n\nYeah no kidding (RIP Etika).", "Likewise <3", "Oooooh okay that makes a lot of sense. \nThanks :3", "Why do you feel entitled to comment on his mental health?\n\nIn short, do you know him?\n\nAlso, where in the video was he asking for discourse about his mental wellbeing?", "If you would take 125 out of 2500 comments so seriously that you decided to quit your job, I don’t know what to tell you.", "thanks", "You can learn to not care though. Like i could call you a huge idiot right now, but you don't know if i'm a 13 year old romanian kid, a 42 year old peruvian mom, or anything. It's meaningless.\n\nPeople downvote because this is a pity thread, and so saying that the dude should maybe grow some thicker skin is not very popular to his fans lol.\n\nIf you just ask yourself before you react to something \"how does this affect my life?\" you can teach yourself to be completely unphased by almost everything that happens on the internet.\n\nI genuinely believe that we should teach kids in school how to stop caring what other people think about them. Unless they are your very very close family, you should have zero reaction to anything that anyone says or thinks about you. It will improve everyones lives x1000.", "I mean logically it makes sense not to care what other people think, and logically I don't, most of the time I'm able to apply that. But then there's emotions, it's harder to stop the knee-jerk reaction if you have deep scars, and some people seem to either have genes that make this easier or harder.\n\nDon't forget to take a step out of your own shoes and realize that what's easy for you to say and do, might be far harder to apply for some people.\n\nIn short: the sentiment I agree 100%, the reality is much more difficult.", "What I've seen from this thread, seems like a good solution for William Osman to hire a moderator. That way he gets them to summarize the comments for him and show him a lot of the nice comments and the top 20 best examples of constructive criticism. That would be a way to buy himself out of this problem, which is pretty considerable given the scope of his youtube channel.", "/r/conservative in a nutshell", "Mental health is a major issue, so don't take it too lightly. 125 (I believe it's more, but we'll go off your numbers) people telling you that you are garbage every time you go to work is terrible and can take a toll on your mind. People hate working in frontline retail for the same reasons.", "I like Will a lot, his videos are fun, and they always make me laugh.\n\nUnfortunately, the negativity from the internet is going to be there and it's never going away. You can have 3 subscribers or 20 million and you're still going to get shit on. \n\nEither deal with it, or go work in an office somewhere. It's not going to stop, there won't be a paradigm shift. Figure out a way to live with it, stop reading comments/criticism, or stop putting yourself out there.\n\nIf he really does sit in front of the computer for 12 hours a day for days on end in a constant state of anxiety, there's more going on than just mean comments on the internet. I hope he gets the help he needs, whether moving away from YouTube or being able to deal with the issues he has with social media in general.\n\nI expect he'll take a few months off, maybe get some therapy and he'll come back in a better state.", "He's done posting 1 video every 3 months?\n\nK.", "Well I know he makes videos, but I couldn't tell you which ones, so he's doing a good job of putting content out without being self-promoting, but perhaps that why he's giving up?", "Here's your actual research:\n\n[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140197121000853](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140197121000853)\n\nThe effects observed seem to be directly related to phone and social media use, across cultures, not other factors examined by the authors\n\nHere's [another](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(18)30060-9/fulltext) one. This one shows how individual use of social media strongly correlates with mental health problems in young girls especially.\n\nDoes this suffice as evidence?", "Glad you replied, I have been looking at more up-to-date information since we last spoke.\n\nNice, so teen adolescents seem to be feeling more lonely in school as they use internet for personal interaction rather than in person. Also that comparison of one's self to social media's curated presentation of those around them is a factor driving body image problems, dissatisfaction with life progress, and personal wealth/class standing. It also facilitates bulling because it's easier to communicate.\n\nThough I will say that the comparison issues with social media is something that has gone on forever, as has bullying, social media acts as a megaphone for it rather than a point of origin, which they mostly concede in that paper as well, however it is proving to be a much larger megaphone than it appeared to be in 2017 when I last really read into this. \n\nI have also been going back over more recent research on extreme behavior and social media use. This gets a lot more muddy than the loneliness. \n\nOne thing I found kinda shocking was that Reddit shows higher cross community (communities of belief, news source consumption, and region) interaction, and a largely more center lean (less polarizied/ less likely to be on one side of the spectrum) than Twitter, Facebook, and Gab when the \"echo chamber effect\" is being studied. \n\nhttps://www.pnas.org/content/118/9/e2023301118\n\nTwitter seems to attract the most politicians with extreme views and provides them a larger audience than those with more moderate ones. \n\nhttps://scholar.harvard.edu/sounman_hong/political-polarization-twitter-social-media-may-contribute-online-extremism\n\nThere is some evidence that exposure to information you don't agree with, or from sources you find suspect (without regard to whether it's correct or not), actually makes you more insulated and solidified in your previous beliefs, instead of bringing you to a wider view, which kinda contradicts the \"filter bubble/echo chamber\" idea, though not fully. (The following is one instance, there are numerous other similar types of experiments out there though as well as psychology data about being confronted with contradictory evidence for deep seated beliefs, but that is not quite the same thing, it just has overlap)\n\nhttps://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/is_social_media_driving_political_polarization\n\nThat while the internet's capacity for worldwide, instant, communication facilitates extremism, it doesn't appear to seed it. In other words, extremist groups can find people of like mind more easily, however there isn't any super solid evidence it creates, or accelerates the creation of, extremists. \n\nhttps://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR400/RR453/RAND_RR453.pdf\n\nThe relationship of extreme ideology with the internet may not be truly different than extreme ideology's relationship with any other means of communication. The situation, and interplay, between internet based radicalization vs. interpersonal interaction, is very hard to draw distinct differences between outside of the reach. \n\nhttps://encompass.eku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1787&context=honors_theses\n\nSo, a lot of what you brought up doesn't seem to able to be blamed on social media, at least not so far as we can see. However adolescent loneliness is magnified by it.", "and the guy could have chosen not to be an asshole and stalk and harass a person with a platform. \n\nWe all make choices my dude, some aren't the smartest.", "Eww, no plain youtube is like plain reddit. Popular hot garbage.", "they have a newish button called \"new to you\"", "It’s actually insane to me that you or anyone else who thinks of themselves as rationale could honestly defend that guy.\n\nThe reality is that what he did was unbelievably petty and borderline insane. Who is so sensitive that in response to a random stranger arguing online about something, they…\n\n1) Stalk that person online to find out personal information about them\n\n2) Create fake accounts and corresponding supporting information \n\n3) Actively catfish them over the guise of a professional opportunity \n\n4) FILM all of it\n\n5) And then edit it and post the whole thing to a channel where you know you have an enormous audience\n\nWhat in the world did he possibly think he was accomplishing that was positive? \n\nIt’s at best an unbelievably petty, self-righteous tirade to feel better about himself. And at worst, it’s an active attempt to encourage and incite people to go harass this guy.\n\nAnd again, because he was slightly aggressive in his tone when arguing with people online? Does that really seem defensible to you? Because to me It makes me think the video maker is a compete piece of shit with a very flimsy grasp over himself that’s very, very clearly trying to ruin that guys life over an internet argument.\n\nAnd don’t even hit me with the “but he already doxxed himself.” \n\nSure, to the like 10 people who otherwise would have read those comments. And to the exactly 0 other people who would have otherwise stalked this guy online to validate it was actually him. Believe it or not, most people don’t go searching for your LinkedIn based on your YouTube profile name; and they certainly don’t go validate it’s actually you by straight up catfishing you because of some bizarre obsession. \n\nNobody would’ve otherwise known who this guy was or cared AT ALL if he doesn’t make that video and prove exactly which other public profiles belonged to him.\n\nThe normal reaction would’ve been to just not read the comments at all. Or perhaps to read them and then not care. If he’s right and that guys wrong, who fucking cares. Are you really so pathetic that someone incorrectly calling you out drives you into an obsessive episode?\n\nHe knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what the outcome would be in creating that video. And for someone who then complains about negativity, the hypocrisy is unbelievably palpable. He strikes me as a borderline psycopath in that video.", "Guy doesn’t like someone calling him out, stalks him online, creates fake profiles to catfish him, makes contact under the false pretense of professional opportunities, records the whole thing, edits it and posts it online - along with personally-identifiable information no one otherwise would have known - to millions of people.\n\n“Slightest misstep”.\n\nDude spent weeks on this over ~5 semi-rude comments online with the very clear intent on public humiliation and the very clear knowledge it could end in this guy getting harassed.\n\nThat is not a “slightest misstep.” That’s fucking psychopath-level behavior.\n\nIf someone else did exactly those same things and was just a normal guy without a YouTube channel, they could quite literally be given a restraining order. It’s insane.", "Seem condesending as all hell to me, idk.\n\nBy pedastal, I don't mean the literal god, worshipping kind,\nI mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind.\n\nI don't think that doxing isn't bad or anything, it's just the way he writes like he's holier-than-thou,\nI mean Jesus Christ look at his edit \n\"I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take\"\nThat's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there!", "During the pandemic I picked up a bunch of new skills and hobbies to try and feel the void of not being able to see people all the time. I thought about even making a YouTube channel around it but I swear every time I go on Facebook or read any comment section it just makes me think is it really worth it all the effort especially after seeing this video. I'm also just not a big social media person but sadly have to have it for work but oh boy I wish I could leave it behind completely. You said it, soon isn't soon enough", "> I mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind.\n\nWith all due respect, that is absolutely not what that phrase means.\n\n\"Putting someone on a pedestal\" is universally (well, nearly, I suppose, given it's not what you meant) understood to mean \"thinking someone is perfect, without fault, and beyond criticism.\"\n\n> \"I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take\" That's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there!\n\nUm...\n\nNo. It's not.\n\nQuestioning a slew of downvotes for expressing a completely reasonable opinion is at-worst whiny. For it to even step into the realm of \"cunty\" would have required them to be aggressively disrespectful, which they very much weren't.\n\nThey were practically polite with that edit.\n\nWith no due respect: you're the one who comes across as a cunt.\n\nYou not only don't know what common English idioms mean (and use them to literally mean the opposite), you apparently think:\n\n1) It's appropriate to tell people to fuck off because they're \"part of the problem\" (and again, I ask: which fucking problem? Disagreeing with you?) \n\n2) Call them \"miserable condescending cunts\" for nothing more than expressing a totally reasonable opinion and asking why everyone thought it was unreasonable.\n\nIt's not /u/Brigadette that's \"part of the problem\".\n\nIt's people like you who go from 0 to BEING A HUGE FUCKING CHUD in literally no steps.\n\nReflect on your attitude and the way you interact with the world. You're very obviously doing it wrong.", "I'm not going to even pretend that I wasn't being a dick, because I was, on purpose even.\n\nMaybe because that's all I saw in the original comment? It really just made me want to throw few quick words, and then double down, when you disagreed.\n\nIn any case, it was childish.\n\n\nMy opinion still remains the same, the tone of the original comment comes off rather unfavourable, and I think the downvotes would tend to agree.\n\n\nI know that \"put on pedestal\" is generally used in a positive context, but I used it deliberately, because the meaning I tried to convey is very similar, a darker side of the same coin.\n\n\"To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults\" = \"To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults allowed\"\n\nOr something along those lines.\n\nThat's what I was trying to convey with \"Looking for the slightest misstep\"\n\nI don't blame anybody for not getting what I meant, truthfully I spent more time on \"Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor\" than on that part lol", "> truthfully I spent more time on \"Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor\" than on that part lol\n\nAlright, credit where it's due: I did chuckle at that.", "I'm glad, making people laugh is a lot more fun than arguing, I guess this is a good reminder of that :)", "believe me, dealing with verbal abuse for months on end is not worse than a 9-5", "What in my reply made you say I think I am a main character?\n\nI didn't say anything about interesting. I said stupid. And I explained it some comments above: he doesn't finish a sentence, there is no coherent speech there.", "Yes he does, he knows people are going to doxx the guy so he can control how they act by giving them nothing to react on.", "damn good for him. Fuck this narrative that if you have a platform you should never do anything against someone whos being an idiot on the internet because \"its punching down\". i like him more now", "he would still seek them out /:", "Biggest \"Woe is me\" video I've ever seen.", "The entire second half of the video is about WHY the 1% of negative comments are harmful in the face of the other 99%. \n\nSecond point isn't really a point, but a statement about him. Success and money don't make you immune from negativity.", "He is weak and has a majority of likes.", "He is being a baby, he went too far, don't fall for his bullshit" ]	324	videos	William Osman: I'm done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1ZYhVpdXbQ	/r/videos/comments/qf6nu7/this_video_always_makes_me_so_happy_wanted_to/	[ "The Good Morning Song from that movie has persisted in my family as a go-to for generations now. I’ve unleashed it on my own children when I needed to wake up kids that weren’t having it. All Thanks to the Tube Site. \n\nWith dad singing (barely) and tap-dancing along (like a camel in clogs) there’s no way to wake up without a smile. It’s a sight, I’m sure. One I got my own version of many years ago.\n\nI can’t express how tickled I’d be to find out they were doing it to their kids in 20 more years.", "[Gene was ill for part of this filming, and other fun facts.](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/66159/15-toe-tapping-facts-about-singin-rain)", "Brill", "The best tap performance ever https://youtu.be/2LxlaCBhekU", "Love it, and here's a remix\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FebVOdSm8Y", "Sheer perfection. I have never been a fan of musicals in general, but a friend of mine made me sit down and watch this movie 40 years. She had recorded it of the tv on video and she said the copy came out so clean it was like it had been store bought. I absolutely fell for this movie and have watched it many times since then. I know it’s the popular choice, but dang it, for me it’s definitely the best and most enjoyable musical I’ve ever seen.\n\nAnd she was right about her recording. It looked like a live broadcast and not a video recording at all." ]	6	videos	This video always makes me so happy, wanted to share it with some of you to bring you some joy :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWXJZkX3T00	/r/videos/comments/qf6tgx/this_is_why_modern_women_cant_get_married_in_20216/	[ "All I see is that tooth gap. She homely AF", "This is real embarrassing. \n\nThe MGTOW stuff, that is.", "Jesus, don't check OP's profile.", "Man with a lead in like that I was expecting to see a bunch of incel stuff.\n\nDefinitely wasn't expecting tons of big nipple porn instead" ]	4	videos	This is why MODERN WOMEN can't get married in 2021\|6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK7ACvEJzBE	/r/videos/comments/qf7693/chef_gino_dacampo_and_gordon_ramsay_making/	[ "Sausage", "I don't get what's so difficult about a little pull and twist on a 12 inch sau-OH MY GOD", "Sausage", "For those who are not familiar, twisting comes after you fill intestines with meat. Not during like Gordon was saying. It's much more important to make consistent filling than twist. Twist can come any time you want." ]	6	videos	Chef Gino D'Acampo and Gordon Ramsay making sausages... and it's unintentionally hilarious
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qf7r48/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qf7r48/deleted_by_user/	[ "So my girlfriend has been a fan of a rapper who goes by the name of Showyousuck who is based out of Chicago. I was trying to figure out a way to make the proposal a surprise and took a total shot in the dark by asking said rapper to help out by writing a song to lead into popping the question. He was totally on board and really came through, even making it personal by including some things in the song that only she would get. It took her a minute to grasp what was going on but this moment is very special to us and we are so thankful and happy to share this life event.", "Incredible!!!\nSo creative. \nBest of luck to you both.", "Thank you for your kind words." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/XH7j9kyW28E	/r/videos/comments/qf855b/pilk/	[ "Waaaaaaay back in the day, I was working at a bar. The bartenders started talking about obscure drinks they knew. One mentioned Bartenders Rootbeer. Bailey's, Kahlua, milk and Pepsi. He whipped up a batch... it wasn't terrible, but I can't see having more than one.", "So what I’m hearing is that Pilk is an ancient recipe of the past, only to be watered down by current generations missing the expertise of adding Baileys and Kahlua", "Exactly. The ancient scrolls must have been lost, and someone tried to make it from memory.", "Yuk", "🤮", "Oh...I was hoping for Karl Pilkington!", "Laverne DeFazio loved her Milk & Pepsi. https://youtu.be/fdnlLZy3teA", "Ahhhh, these youngsters have no idea." ]	8	videos	Pilk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNsnZNsoXY&t=16s	/r/videos/comments/qf8aba/dead_dolphins_and_the_faroe_islands_graphic/	[ "Weak apologist video. \n\nOh killing lots of dolphins by coraling them in motor boats is part of culture and identity? Well living was part of the dolphins identity. And the tedious justification of not being able to see the numbers of dolphins until the killing began as if that's an excuse rather than an inevitable situation that will happen again... just leave the dolphins alone, creeps.", "You’re obviously triggered by the idea of other cultures living their lives in ways differently than yours. I’m sure you live a life that nobody could judge in a similar fashion.", "I bet your sooo worldly that you would eat dog on vacation eh?", "If you eat meat at all, ANYTHING, I’m sure there’s somebody somewhere who would say the things you’re eating are wrong. Did you know that there’s a whole country that believes cows are sacred? Yet we have advertisements running in this country talking about delicious charbroiled, grass fed, all natural American beef. Do you obtain from cow out of respect for folks in India? I don’t know you, but statistically the answer is likely no.\n\nI think you’re stuck in a rut of thinking and you’re offended because this is what you were taught to believe without being critical about it.", "Let me guess... vegan?", "> triggered by the idea of other cultures living their lives in ways differently than yours\n\nOnly the animal murdering ones\n\nAnd it's always funny how people who pretend to be so comfortable with dolphin murder don't like to say it, and do talk about abstract ideas like being different\n\nGlad this video tanked in /r/videos what a mess\n\n> I’m sure you live a life that nobody could judge in a similar fashion.\n\nCorrect", "Wait. Are you a vegetarian or something?\n\nIf you're against animal murdering cultures...which cultures do you have left to like?" ]	7	videos	Dead Dolphins and The Faroe Islands (Graphic content warning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFhneuXBGTg	/r/videos/comments/qf8lgb/did_anyone_else_find_momoa_to_be_mumbly_in_dune/	[ "Maybe I’m some hyper intelligent alpha but it sounds just fine? I understood every word he spoke with no subtitles.", "Pay me more than he got and I will promise to annunciation my words", "I'm someone who loves subtitles, because without fail, in almost every movie, something gets mumbled, or gets talked over, or some sound effect/music drowns out a word or phrase. I had no issue with Momoa's dialog. I also thought he was a net positive for the movie, bringing it some energy, warmth and life it badly needed.\n\nEdit: Fixed a word", "I understood him perfectly fine. Only times I had some trouble hearing was Lady jessica in some scenes, she whispered quite often. Momoa was one of the top easiest to understand, Timothy was harder to understand than him honestly.\n\nBut I just see it's just a new youtube channel hoping to get some click-bait views for money. So i'm guessing this is just a bait to jumpstart a click-farm channel. Well played.\n\n\n*Edit-Also breaking rule 9. No self promotion.", ";)", "I thought Momoa showed how bad of an actor he is in this, but he was mostly understandable. My problem was the audio is mixed quite low and some of his lines were spoken quietly, so I had to lean in for some even with my volume maxed(which never happens with other shows).", "I felt the casting was excellent with the exception of Duncan Idaho.", "Same with Dave Bautistas character. I think they intentionally tried to hide as much as they could get away with so they didn't have to train everyone to speak with the same accent." ]	9	videos	Did anyone else find Momoa to be Mumbly in Dune 2021?
https://youtu.be/2GemVXp0fUI	/r/videos/comments/qf9usm/walgreens_has_started_installing_video_freezer/	[ "The store by me just got them. When no one is standing by them, they display full screen banner ads. \n\nIn order to see what is in each freezer, you must walk about 3 feet in front of it, trigger a motion sensor, and then the screen shows you what would normally be stocked in it. It’s interesting for about 10 seconds, then annoying AF.\n\nEdit: this video is from someone else’s experience two years ago. This is mine yesterday https://i.imgur.com/g8Qned7.jpg\n\nMany were broken and you couldn’t see the contents at all. What a great shopping experience. /s", "One more step towards Idiocracy", "Welcome to costco, I love you", "Dude i just realized i haven't had one of those frozen snickers in years", "Fuck that", "Monetize every second of every single person's momentary attention. Sure, why not.", "Those things are the bomb", "This is just going to cause people to open the freezer doors and then browse.", "As a kid I probably would have thought this was really cool but as an adult I'm just concerned about the polar bears.", "They're already in the process of eliminating cashiers completely.", "I stopped buying things from the refrigerated sections at places that do this. For lots of reasons. Terrible marketing scheme.", "Looks like I'll be opening freezers and staring blankly into them like I do at home.", "Another environment created by people who wouldn’t tolerate it in their own lives.", "At first I was like \"huh probably more efficient than glass doors\" then I thought about it a second longer and realized the power draw and heat from the screens probably negates or worsens any benefit not having them be glass provides.", "Then you open the door and let out a bunch of cold air just to see that the thing you want isn't in stock.", "Exactly what I was thinking, especially if it means I don't have to look at the ads. What they think they will make up in advertising they're going to lose in air conditioning.\n\nAnd if they have sound... I'll just stop going there.\n\nEvery time a gas pump starts playing an ad with sound at me I have to stop myself from punching the screen.", "One step closer to [hyper reality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs)", "I hope this fails spectacularly", ">\tEvery time a gas pump starts playing an ad with sound at me I have to stop myself from punching the screen.\n\nPress the top left button on the pump to mute", "I'm aware... still want to just break the damn thing.\n\nI guess it's too much to ask that advertising have some ethical boundaries.\n\nWhat kind of discount per gallon am I getting for being subjected to this ad? Oh... nothing.", "This is both inconvenient and a massive waste of resources.", "We are just one step closer to black mirror", "I will open the door and just walk away.", "Soon they'll do it to the floors, and then the walls, the ceilings, the children, we'll be living in one giant advert", "Just wait, in 20 years each door will stay automatically locked until you finish watching two 30s ads.", "U right doe", "God damnit I came here to watch people bitch about advertising. Not to be advertised to!", "I was thinking more of the personalized ads in Minority Report.", "Ran into these. Really annoying when you open the door to find the shelves nearly empty.", "OHHHHH FUCK NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN.\n\n\n\nPLEASE DRINK A VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE.", "Saw this recently too, like half the things in the fridges were out of stock despite saying they were, making it more useless than just having fucking glass.", "Unlikely, advertising contracts are way more expensive than electricity for freezers.\n\nAnd most people already know which door has the things they want.", "Those door handles look pretty bare same with the walls", ">Monetize every second of every single person's momentary attention. Sure, why not.\n\nJust don't shop at Walgreens, problem solved.", "I'm so glad I left the States so I don't have to deal with this retarded garbage.", "All my homies hate Walgreens", "Here’s my prediction for the future: Your loyalty card (which tracks your purchasing habits) will communicate with those displays and you will get personalised ads as you approach them. Might be embarrassing if you’ve previously bought treatment for piles though.", "I probably wouldn't shop there then. It's just another excuse for them to raise prices even more to recoup that money they put in.", "Or ads in our dreams like Futurama predicts https://youtu.be/hlCrcMeVZHs", "Sounds like a great way for me to not go there if I have to open every door till I find the thing I'm looking for.", "And they have cameras to check your gender... and display ads based on that...\n\n\n> Source 2019: https://youtu.be/Q_pKkZrkz1U?t=80", "Will you please add an ad to this comment?", "A walgreens visited recently and had these doors. You’re right, not everything you see is behind those doors. Infuriating.", "Everytime I see intrusive ads like this I just think of this banksy quote\n\nPeople are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.\n\nYou, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.\n\nFuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.\n\nYou owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.", "I always want to see the product I am buying. The physical package needs to appeal to me. If it doesn't look like the screen I will put it back.", "[Hyper-reality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs)", "I doubt these corporate cucks care about some extra electricity or work on your part", "Would be nice if they would tell you something is empty. No just trick you into opening the door instead.", "Wait till EA buys Walgreens", "I'm so God damn sick of these ads.\n\nIf I see the Charmin ass wiping bears one more time I might go postal. \n\nI know what toilet paper is, please stop telling me about it. \n\nImagine a world without billboards, radio ads, television ads, sky ads, car ads.. \n\nIt's dehumanizing. It's demoralizing. Show me a presidential candidate who runs on a platform of decluttering our world of advertisements and I'll grab a megaphone and start preaching the person's name in the street.\n\nedit: I'll see you like minded folks in the 2028 elections. Given the amount of support just this comment is receiving, the Presidency is ~~mine~~ ours.", "oh my god just like cyberpunk 207777777", "Every store will start doing this now.", "Soon", "On the bright side I'd be buying less things I dont need because im hungry and just going for what I do need", "I might stop shopping there, this is just ridiculous. I hate this with passion, it's frivolous, stupid, unnecessary, creepy and hostile advertising.", "The Walgreens near me has these. Then you open the door where the shit you want is, and it isn’t there.\n\nFuckin annoying.", "The ones at my store are also incorrect - they don’t stock them according to the picture on the front so you need to open them to see what’s actually inside", "starting to understand this chip shortage now...", "I don't mind the screens since they probably make price updates easier and deals easier to notice. I also could deal with a small banner ad at the top, bottom, or even between the rows of items, but fuck full screen ads like that Healthy Choice ad. All those ads do for me is make me hate the brands that use them more than I already do and let me know that I should go to a different store to shop next time.", "Eh, it's all just junk food trash... and ice.\n\nWalk right past.", "Can I get Brawndo there? It has what plants crave.", "After having hulu commercials, i now actively try to not buy anything advertised to me.", "This is what I am thinking about: the glass is there to show you the contents while keeping them frozen, if I can't see into the freezer and have to go around opening each door, it's going to be super inconvenient to the customers, but then when have any greedy companies ever really cared about their customer satisfaction.", "I don't even have a car but boy am I glad this isn't a thing in my country.", "I thought this was in Japan 😅", "It's just gonna cause me to go to CVS instead of Walgreens since they're usually within a half mile of one another. I don't feel like drugstore brand loyalty is really a thing outside of maybe your medical insurance for prescriptions when you have so many options.", "Like at gas pumps. Fuck its so annoying.", "Walgreens employee here. Couldn't agree more, but corporate would rather pay for these dumb ass doors than invest in better software for our registers, give us more hours (I'm suprised we're even getting a raise), or do anything else that would actually improve the store/ customer experience.", "my first thought was, neat! they showcase what's inside so people don't have to open the doors as often. then got rudely letdown that we live in a dystopian shitshow fueled by capitalism.", "Press the button on the right side second from the top. 90% of the time it’s a mute button.", "Just leave the door open afterwards.", "Yeah. I do but i still hate it. And sometimes its broken. Makes my blood boil", "Dystopia.", "Aren't we already at the point where these stations deliberately pump slower to have more time to play ads?", "It’s not really an AD it’s about putting product in your face to get more impulse buys, same reason there is junk in the line when you checkout.", "Saw these at the local wqlgreens the other day and the stock wasn't even remotely similar to what was on the screen.", "unless there's insulation behind the screen which in all likeliness is the case", "Well all of the Wallgreens near me have had half-empty coolers/freezers that look like they were hit by a flood of customers at the beginning of the Covid Pandemic Quarantine, and they look like they haven't been stocked or even touched by a Wallgreens employee since that first day..\n\nIf I saw these cooler doors at my locations, I would think they're trying to hide the fact that they have almost zero inventory..", "I hate these things with a passion. Especially when I go to grab a freaking ginger ale, and they're GONE. Why you get my hopes up, Walgreens??? Or the product on the door isn't actually in that section for whatever reason.\n\nSo far my local stores don't have them, thank the universe.", "This was my thinking.. all my local Wallgreens and CVS stores have had 90% empty freezers that look like they were raided right before a hurricane and then never touched again..", "Insert butt plug to browse selection", "I quite like that, thanks for sharing", "Oh boy more idiocracy plot devices turned reality.", "If everyone stops shopping at weelgreens because of this? Nope they wouldn't", "there literally is an ad playing on the \"ice cubes\" section promoting a product that is sold somewhere else...\n\nhow is that not an ad?\n\n&#x200B;\n\n(and lets not even go into how \"it's not an ad, it's just putting a product in your face\" is a really wierd thing to say in itself", "\"We figure we can get 80% saturation of the visual feed before rejection.\"", "are diet products required to be sold alongside the regular versions in your country or is your whole comment a sarcastic portrayal of idiocracy logic?", "So you have to open the door to see what is there if the ad is playing. That seems like it could be a net loss due to more air conditioning costs.", "The worst part is you can't see what's out of stock. I saw these in Austin about a month ago. It actually wasted my time, and felt like some Cyberpunk shit.", "While claiming it’s intended to save energy by keeping people from opening the cooler doors for an extended period of time without acknowledging the doors go from glass to using energy as monitors and many people will still keep the doors open just as long looking inside even with the images on the door.", "Have these stores seen prices outside of their establishment? Why even go there anyway when you’re guaranteed to be getting gouged?", "\"it's not an ad, it's just trying to get you to purchase a product!\"", "Push it harder, with a hammer", "I was just at a Walgreens were they had half the freezers empty. I figured it was for a repair. I have to see what's in the freezer to decide what to buy", "ITT - people unaware that we live in a capitalist society. Corporate advertising is literally a cornerstone of a capitalist society. \n\nWhy is any of this a surprise to any of you?\n\n“Advertising = bad” without any further context is the type of thing edgy 15 year olds say.\n\nAdvertising is here to stay as long as we operate a capitalist society. The best you can hope for is to be served more relevant ads and less irrelevant ones.", "but... I like junk food trash and ice.", "We’re already there. The products behind the glass are no different than bring digitally displayed in terms of advertising.", "No, why would they do that. It literally ovffers zero profit for them for you to watch the ad by standing at pump. They are just paid to have it run anyway, its not based on \"views\" like tv or whatever.", "Grocery stores in general have really stopped caring. Anyone notice how cereal aisle is now basically the candy section. Every cereal has a mirror version of some type of candy. lol", "Thinking of Minority Report here.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/7bXJ_obaiYQ", "Never once has the picture matched the door. \n\nIn fact, I should go to my Walgreens and take a pic of the door vs what’s behind it for Reddit karma.", "I hate it", "It’s not selling ads it’s a menu. It’s showing what’s in the case without having to open the door. It saves energy.", "I never understood why people shopped at Walgreens or CVS. Less stuff, more expensive, and has the corporate feel.", "It’s not really that inconvenient. They should still show what’s in stock (you can see what’s greyed out) and this at least in theory makes refrigeration more cost effective (clear glass doors suck). \n\nBut is it a waste of resources? Almost surely not. The reality is, despite Reddit whining about it, these things will work. They will generate profits directly by selling ad space and indirectly by those ads actually working. There’s a lot of people in here complaining about how they hate ads because they are annoying clutter in our every day. I agree with that, but I hate ads even more because they work, and they fucking work on me. Everyone thinks they are immune to ads but no one is. Maybe certain ads don’t work on certain people, but that probably just means you aren’t the target demographic or it’s a particularly bad ad that will promptly be replaced once the data says so. Our will is subconsciously being manipulated every day by this, and it changes what we want, what we buy, and is some way who we are. Walgreens is just trying to be competitive in the market place we’ve allowed to exist, and the only real way to fix it is through legislation. You can’t defeat this with your wallet. This beast is already in our wallets.", "It’s a menu screen, the doors are displaying what’s in the case. The ad was like 10 seconds. Why would you need to open the door to ‘browse’?", "Well I was wondering maybe it's an insulation thing but the constant opening is gonna def ruin that.", "This is just gonna make people like me want to ruin the world, I would go there and rearrange the freezer to not match the pics all the time just for fun!", "I hate this so much but it’s better than CVS locking the entire beer cooler and a king you find the 1 worker on staff to grab a six pack.", "Well I guess the doors are cost neutral", "I swear, if I see these awful things in a store. I'll turn around and tell the manager I'm not returning because of them.", "This is the fucking worst life", "How is this better than just putting up posters on the doors? Why do they need to spend all those extra materials and power draw just for a moving picture when a piece of paper has done wonders for years.", "Omg yes!", "The real reason they installed these is the camera on top of each door.", "A lot of gas stations have disabled the mute button nowadays", "The future is NOW old man!!! \n(My internal dialogue)", "Those Healthy Choice Power Bowls are actually really good.", "[Thank you for reminding me of this gem.](https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/1ggg4u/please_drink_a_verification_can/)", "I pushed every button on the pump the last time one barked an ad at me and nothing worked.", "I specifically don't buy gas from stations with ads on their pumps.\n\nI don't have cable because I don't like commercials.\n\nAnd now it looks like I won't be shopping at this shithole, not that I did much anyway.", "If you are close enough, the screen changes to a display of what’s inside", "No it ain't. No it doesn't.", "This shit sucks. My local Walgreens has this and half of the shit shown on screen isn't even stocked. And while I'm looking the whole screen shows a big ass ad so I have to open the freezer anyway to see whats inside.", "Because they want to sell as much ad space as possible (the entire door) and with posters you cannot even tell what is behind the door and will have to literally open every single door to find what you're looking for. \n\nWith these (ideally) they have motion sensors to stop playing ads and show you what is behind them and whether the item(s) are stocked.\n\nI say ideally because I know the stocking indicators will be hit or miss, but it is a good deal less inconvenient to the consumer that just a full-frame static poster of an advertisement.", "No, it’s to sell ads. There are no sensors inside to check inventory, so the menu is usually inaccurate. They actually waste energy.", "I’ve seen these, the door 2nd from the left is showing all of the ice cream varieties available in that case. Once you open doors for a few seconds the case frosts the door forcing every other person to open them to leave ok for stuff. \n\nI see that there’s an ad for whatever bowl it’s selling.", "The real crime here are \"food deserts\" which create a situation where consumers are forced to shop (for unhealthy foods) at A PHARMACY (or dollar store) for everyday foods.", "And now the freezers/coolers have to work that much harder because of the heat put off by those very video screens.", "I’m not saying it checks inventory but it shows what they carry. When you open the door to these cases it usually makes it frost over and no one else can see in the case for a while which forces anyone else to open the door to look at what’s there.", "Not exactly - they show you what's supposed to be inside, it's just images of the products that are supposed to be stocked in each space, not what's actually inside. \n\nCountless times since Walgreens installed these I have gone looking for a drink, only to open the big dumb TV door to find they are out of stock.\n\nThese serve no other purpose than to push advertising, at the expense of customer convenience. They suck.", "They did this to show what’s inside without you needing to open the fridge door…. Duuuh! /s", "I refuse to pay for Hulu for this exact reason. You want me to pay for your stream AND you serve me ads?", "Yep. \n\nThese probably won't last long. Those intrusive ads are going to ruin the shopping experience for people. Not to mention those shitty seizure inducing flashing colors. Even watching a 30 second youtube clip annoyed me. I can't imagine standing near a brightly lit screen\n\nI would definitely 100% never touch these freezers again if they had this \"feature.\"\n\nFucking brain dead advertisers. What's the point of shopping in person if we are forced to watch countless other brightly lit digital screens?", "To be fair, Walgreens is pulling out of poor neighborhoods left and right. They’re not taking advantage of poor communities - they’re not serving them at all.", "I can’t tell the difference between any of them.", "Because I could just as easily be looking though a piece of glass that doesn't have ads on it... and if opening the door disrupts the advertising then I will stand there with the door wide open the entire time I'm shopping.\n\nMy senses are not tools to advertise at me through... they are mine.", "WALL-E", "It's absolutely inconvenient, what are you talking about? When you have to stop and wait for a fucking ad to stop playing to see what's in that section of the freezer, that's inconvenient. When you realize the grayed out inventory images (if that's truly a feature of these) is based on the stores inventory system which are never completely accurate (maybe for a day after doing a physical inventory), that's inconvenient.\n\nYou can claim these work, but honestly if I see this shit I'm just not going to mess with buying anything refrigerated at this store.", "These are stupid also because they show the stores unit price and then the retail price", "This is a microcosm of hell.", "I think I like Banksy now.", "Maybe so, but a video screen that large has to put off enough heat that the cooler/freezer will have to work harder to keep it at the proper temp. So it's still wasting energy just in a different way.", "The EFT devices at Walgreens are trash. I legitimately don't want to shop at Walgreens over how cumbersome and slow they are and how many goddamn button presses that they take to process a transaction. \n\nAlso, Walgreens prices are outrageous and gouge people for the simple convenience of purchasing other necessities when purchasing already outrageously priced wellness product.", "This looks extremely high maintenance and prone to breaking eventually.", "I'll just leave the door open, so my fellow people can look inside. and if I can't leave it open, I'll prop it open.\n\nI'm just looking out for you all.", "Have you encountered these? Is that actually a problem? I have a hard time believing this isn’t just blown out of proportion. If these are going to become widespread, I don’t think there’s going to be an inventory issue. If it’s currently a problem and can’t be fixed, there’s no way this is going to become widespread. Keeping track of what’s in the refrigerator and supplying that in real time is not a difficult thing to do. And when that’s fixed, what is there to bitch about? If it’s inconvenience is genuinely the problem, then is everyone just going to love it once the inconvenience is fixed, or is the rest of what I said that you totally ignored still relevant?", "Next they’ll have facial recognition and tailored commercials for people.", "The future is now; the future is shit.", "functionality. plus the power draw isn't that much I imagine around the same as an incandescent light bulb. There's going to be insulation behind the screens which is much better than glass, it's aesthetically better than posters and you also get the benefit of not having to change out the price tags and the extra ad revenue they see", "I've never encountered these but I've encountered restaurants with video screen menus that randomly cut to full-screen ads just like these and yeah, they're absolutely frustrating.\n\nAnd no there's no fixing inventory issues. You're always going to have inaccurate counts due to shrink and other factors.\n\nYou're taking a truly bizarre stance on these.", "And you select your junk food trash by the ads that you’re currently enraged about. That guy is getting downvoted, but he’s right. We’re scarfing down the products that a clever mix of ads and sugar has gotten us addicted to. They wouldn’t do this shit if it wasn’t incredibly effective.", "I worked for Walgreens for 6 years. This stinks as one of their 'marketing' ideas. They waste a metric fuck ton of money on these wild ideas for making money off people, they push it on employees like crazy and then realize it isn't working and them just cancel it. Wash, rinse, repeat.", "I hate this", "It’s truly bizarre to think that Walgreens wouldn’t be installing these if they didn’t work? I think y’all are having some knee jerk reactions instead of actually reading what I said. The exact attention span these kind of ads prey on.", "Dumbest shit i've ever seen. What a hassle to have to open every single door to see what's actually in there.", "Stunning 8k resolution grocery freezer door…", "All it takes is one stone. Also this idea doesn't make sense to me.", "They don't need facial recognition, they just need the proximity data on your phone, which they can easily buy, and they can thereby determine not only your purchase history, but what sections of which aisles you linger in to cater it to items you might have been looking over.", "Fuck this so much.", "At what point will companies realize that their ads are ineffective because where theirs is, there is also 100 other ads all designed to grab your attention in the same way. \n\nI'm convinced that advertisement has gone away from what it was originally designed for and its basically just a racket for writing-off taxes at this point.", "The bottles full of sugar syrup you’re staring at are still advertising to you lol. You’re gonna slam some big brand chemical sweets down your gullet and pat yourself on the back because you held a door open? A door that could probably still be more effective because glass is a shot insulator? The irony from this sub is unbearable right now.", "capitalism.", "Hopefully it doesn’t take any longer than coming up with a new joke about EA", "Not having glass fronts probably negates the loss of electricity from some Redditor holding the door open for as long as their attention span can stand it. And then when they still take some mega corporations product off the shelf and buy it, they’ve just continued to contribute to the shit they’re arrogant enough to think they’re rebelling against.", "If you are advertised in a way that you don’t like, then look at the product being advertised and don’t buy it. Simple.", "I'm 100% immune to ads. I haven't bought a brand in almost a decade. Just because they work on you doesn't mean they all work on everyone", "It's good and I agree with the sentiment, but the key words there are \"public space\". Walgreens can do whatever they want even though it's terrible advertising considering it's in their own space.\n\nI guess the grey area is things like highway billboards and ads in train stations or even ads on buildings that face out into public spaces and whether they are subject to be 're-arranged' as he mentioned.", "Incoming graffiti/broken screens that are just blank/ inroads for hackers to fuck with Walgreens.\n\nThe possibilities are endless!", "Half the top posts on reddit are ads and no one cares", "I want to say you are right and probably much sooner but in real life a crowbar would break that door real quick.", "I have a compulsion when I see forcible ads - I have to look away, close my eyes, shut my ears, turn the volume down etc. - whatever I have to do to make myself feel like I'm not letting them win. \n\nThe little victories mater.", "1) if you are ‘100% immune to ads’ you aren’t going to Walgreens \n\n2) I bet you aren’t, you’re just confident enough to think you aren’t.", "When you approach, they show what's inside so you don't have to A) squint through foggy windows and B) don't open doors unnecessarily to let out the cold\n\n\nJust don't pay attention to the ads and approach the doors so it shows inventory.", "There’s a premium version w/o ads though. Hulu ads are also kind of bizarre to me, they’re stuck in some time vortex in the 2000’s or something, I swear nothing has changed. The worst are the pharmaceutical ads “HEY DO YOU HAVE AN OLD VAGINA BECAUSE YOURE ON MENOPAUSE HERE IS THIS PILL FOR YOUR OLD VAGINA SO YOU CAN HAVE SEX”. \n\nI just mute them now and it’s a much better experience.", "The ads disappear when you approach and show what the inventory is.", "1) got me there I haven't been to a big box stores in ages\n \n2) I mean I barely even see ads so I really am", "sometimes it's the second button down on the right to Mute", "The video displays the contents inside if you approach them. There are a lot of sensitive butterflies commenting in this thread about the ads. If you walk down the aisle in front, the ads immediately disappear and the products are shown. As in specifically each rack. It saves on energy used by idiots opening every door to see what's inside", "You aren’t immune, you’re avoiding them. Which I applaud. But that also means these doors ain’t for you lol. \n\nBut all the Chads in here saying they’ll hold the door open before buying some brand product anyway? They’re getting straight cucked by the very people they think they’re owning. Walgreens doesn’t give a fuck that you held a door open for 2 minutes before buying a name brand soda, and Pepsi, Coca Cola, etc sure as fuck don’t care.", "It actually shows you what's stocked inside. As in what's behind it. Every Walgreens I've been to is accurate. It shows me which door has the milk and juice. \n\nUnfortunately I guess you've just had bad luck.", "If they actually are cost neutral then all they're actually doing is making the customer experience worse and driving away business. For this to make any kind of sense the income from the ads has to significantly outweigh the costs of electricity, repairs, and the initial investment.", "Companies do things all the time that don't work. Did you seriously just assume action must mean they are infallible by default? Lol.", "Saw these on a trip to California. They were super annoying because you couldn't see what was in them until you walked up and it jumped out of advertise mode.", "So you’re saying… you’ll advertise for them?", "> What they think they will make up in advertising they're going to lose in air conditioning.\n\nYou're grossly overestimating the power needed to move heat to cool air. Go do the math on an air exchange of 20 cubic feet, it's absurdly low.\n\nedit: since this idiot wont do it to realize his own ignorance. An exchange of 20 cubic feet, which is the typical freezer partition, and a gross overestimation of the air exchange that would take place leaving the door open for a minute, would cost.... drum roll 0.00017 cents. Note, that's not written mistakenly with the decimal as if I was saying dollar and just added \"cents\", it's indeed 17 hundred thousandths of a cent.", "> if you are ‘100% immune to ads’ you aren’t going to Walgreens\n\nThis just in folks. The only reason you ever shop anywhere is because you were advertised to do so. It's the closest store to you? Nah bro. You were advertised to. Convenience doesn't compute.\n\nLol you're ridiculous.", "I appreciate the screens. My day isn't ruined because of some banner ads. People get so sensitive.\n\nWhat I do enjoy is seeing clearly the products behind each door so I can not open multiple doors unnecessarily, wasting more energy. I don't care if I'm saving them pennies, I'm preventing more energy that shouldn't be used in the world to be reduced.\n\nWho cares if there's a damn banner? Hahaha has no one been to Walmart in the last 40 yrs? Lol you're surrounded by ads. No one bitches. But these doors in Walgreens everyone on this thread comes screaming hahahah", "I can't tell what's scummier: this or the fact that my local gas stations installed video screens on the gas pump stations so an ad can play while you pump gas. Do companies not realize by now that if they advertise to me in a sh!tty way like that, I purposely won't buy their product?", "If you go to Walgreens you are being advertised to and are 100% making decisions on that advertising whether you think you are or not. It doesn’t matter the reason you walked into the store, the ads are still in the store. Don’t kid yourself.", "There don’t appear to be sensors inside to confirm the inventory. So you end up opening the freezer to find that the thing you wanted wasn’t there. People are opening these waaaay more often now.", "I mean this is what the future used to look like in sci-fi films. So I’m not really surprised.", "I clearly said that these won’t become widespread if they really don’t work and can’t be fixed. Reading comprehension, my dude.", "I've yet to see an incorrect door. I was just there a few days ago. The milk and juice was behind the screen showing milk and juice. Their pizzas were behind the pizza screen.", "They will revert soon. It'll cost then more money then they ads are paying. Between the increase in electrical cost from running the ads, repairs, and refrigeration due to how much longer the doors will be open, the cost will either match or exceed the revenue. And imo I would stop grocery shopping there as it'd make my life more inconvenient to have to either memorize or open every freezer.", "Don't drink sugar syrup actually... but it's no surprise you had to start making shit up to support your idiotic argument in praise of sucking those corporate dicks you love bombarding you with advertising everywhere you look.\n\nDon't use the word irony... you clearly don't know what it means. Perhaps all the advertising you love so much has made you stupid... that's what it's designed to do after all.", "> It’s truly bizarre to think that Walgreens wouldn’t be installing these if they didn’t work? \n\nYou literally just forgot what you ACTUALLY said. ROFLMAO. You're not a very bright one are you?", "ROFLMAO. Look at you. Imagine existing and thinking this way.", "Then why the fuck are you opening that door if you aren’t buying the shit behind it? I don’t love advertisements just because I’m not naive enough to think they don’t work.", "That's just obnoxious, like those gas stations that run ads while you are at the pump. I try to avoid those stations.", "Jesus christ", "That's assuming we won't shop somewhere else that doesn't assault our senses.", "> if it’s currently a problem and can’t be fixed, there’s no way this going to become widespread \n\n\nROFLMAOOMGGAUSBWJXBAKN", "So you think these companies spend millions and millions of dollars on advertising for absolutely nothing in return, or are you just dumb enough to think you’re special?", "Again, it shows you what should be stocked inside, but the screens are not privy to stock levels, meaning a customer still needs to open the door to visually tell if an item is actually available or not. \n\nThey serve no function to the customer other than to advertise to them.", "I think people go to what's close to them and you're a baboon if you think advertisement is the only reason people shop at any given place. You're not very bright, or utterly out of touch with reality.", "Lmao, this reminds me of the smart fridge bit on Silicon Valley.\n\nSolving a problem that doesn't exist. And this isn't even a good way of approaching it. I mean, I know that ads are inherently not user friendly, but ads are playing on freezers for products that aren't even in the freezer they're running the ad on.\n\nPeople are just going to open each freezer until they find what they want, and like all ads ever, their brains will eventually just filter out that there is a screen there at all, subconsciously adopting 'just opening the door' as the default thing to do.\n\nAnd what the hell is the upfront cost, maintenance, and power draw on this sort of thing...? Those are a LOT of massive screens. Those screens take a lot of power. And the heat generated from that power is likely warming up the freezer behind it... So the freezer will have compensate by spinning up its compressor. Meaning more power. Then there is the upfront cost of these screens, probably north of a thousand dollars per screen. And then there is the software running on them, likely either a huge one time payment, which they would need to pay a developer to support, or it's a service, in which case likely a fairly high monthly cost is involved.\n\nDoes the money made from convincing shoppers to buy the advertised product really cover these massive costs...? I mean, it could be that the products parent company pays to advertise on they screens... But what company in the right mind would want to do that lmao.\n\nJust have glass, and if you really want to use that space for an ad, get some tape, and a poster, and stick it on there... Ads ruin everything I swear to god.", "lol. I would get pissed seeing what I was looking for on the screen, open and it’s not there.", "Americans are broke as fuck and every corporation is spending their excess money on stupid shit wondering why no one wants to work for $7.75/hr.", "You’re an idiot if you think advertisement only exists to get you to go to a certain store. Location is why McDonalds builds in high traffic and convenient places. Advertisement is why people buy the most cost effective items on the menu, or that new burger or pie that looks really tasty. But keep telling yourself you’re different, and they’ll keep getting your dollars.", "The only reason why this is getting attention is because of the gee whiz electronical technologies.\n\nWhen you walk into a Walgreens, every single endcap, side panel, and counter display is paid for by a third party to \"monetize every second of your attention.\" For years Walgreens has been selling out every inch of promo space to Mars, Nestle, P&G, Rickett Binckiser, J&J, Coke, Pepsi, etc so those companies can put their product strategically in your line of sight. Think about that next time you buy a chapstick. Did you seek it out in the in-line department because you really needed one, or did you buy 3 because the 3rd was \"free\" and it was on a cute little tower in the pharmacy queue?", "Second button from the top on the right is the mute button for BP screens. \n\nSource: I used to travel about 50% of my last job.\n\nBackup source: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/kplebi/this_is_the_mute_button_for_gas_station_ads/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf", "That's just such a waste of power. You literally advertise with people seeing your product through the glass. Fuck some marketing people just need to leave the industry.", "These are in the Walgreens I go to. When you walk in front, there is some kind of motion sensor that will change the screen from ads to just a picture of what’s behind it.", "The posters actually couldn’t change to show stock. \n\nNow, more importantly, they couldn’t display super Bitchin ads, but there is also some other functionality even if advertisement wasn’t the goal. There’s an alternate reality where this idea could actually be cost effective and environment friendly and not just about money.", "roflmao. Yup. Keep going bud.", "It’s greyed out when it’s out of stock.", "Why are they advertising shit that is literally for sale, physically located nearby? Does seeing a picture of a snickers bar on the freezer door correlate to a higher rate of purchasing snickers bars than seeing a physical snickers bar on a shelf 5 feet away?", "I know a little about these doors - most likely they’re being funded by a 3rd party who will then rev share ad sales with the company. \n\nThe ads (If done correctly) will highlight certain brands on the shelf if you stand in front of them - think animated swirls around coke shelves instead of Pepsi shelves - etc. \n\nThey’re not supposed to be used for opaque interstitial ads that impose themselves on your browsing experience. \n\nThink more clippy and less YouTube. Like an AR supported browsing experience. \n\nEdit: I still think they’re terrible.", "Do you have trouble understanding what you read? What's behind the advertisement is irreverent. The advertisements are playing on the screens whether I open the door or not.\n\nWhat I clearly said was that I would open the door rather than look at the screen.\n\n>I don’t love advertisements just because I’m not naive enough to think they don’t work.\n\nDo you think that sentence makes any sense?\n\nI'll say it again... my senses are not a tool to advertise at me through. The discussion is about ethics in advertising... not the bullshit you're trying to make it about.\n\nDoes this discussion personally affect your shitty job or something? Maybe time to look for a less evil line of work.", "The screens monitor inventory. If product isn't there, that's the local store's fault. They're meant to alert and keep track so the staff can keep it properly stocked.\n\nAgain, since they have been installed, I've been to several Walgreens and they all have had the stock they claim. \n\n\n\nPeople are being super sensitive about ads in a store.....like they haven't been to Walmart in 20-30 yrs. There's ads in every store....every aisle.", "I feel like this screen would encourage people to browse while open even more.", "I'm waiting for the day that approaching a shelf triggers a verbal endorsement of the product by a big celebrity, athlete or public figure. I'm Commander Shephard, and this is my favorite store on the citadel.", "These things suck, I saw them recently in a Walgreens in Boston, there is absolutely no way to determine if the item you want is in stock without opening the door, so if the item you want is out you gotta open another door to see if your second choice is in stock. You'd think that considering you can't see the amount of good behind the display, there would be some level of intelligence baked in that could tell you if an item is sold out or not, but obviously that would cost too much and cut into their ad revenue.", "We are nearing peak Capitalism, everyone! Now we just need video ads on our soda bottle/cans and on our plates so we can see an ad for a dessert after we finish dinner!", "I’m not sure I understand, do you genuinely want me to keep explaining how advertising works and how it isn’t the giant waste of money you think it is? Are you close to realizing that the things you buy and things you do are heavily influenced by the constant stream of ads with which you are bombarded with from the moment you wake up and start using Reddit on your phone and doesn’t stop until you finally sleep?", "That's assuming Amazon and everything else hasn't fully monopolized the market by then.", "They installed these in the stores by my house. I hate them so very, very much. Stupidest waste of, just, everything.", "Nice! Now I have to walk over and open the freezer before I know it's empty. Thankfully I don't do grocery shopping in Walgreens.", "Lol the bottles are advertising to you. You just passed one advertisement for another you clown. Jesus some people here are painfully naive.", "Even properly insulated, as others have pointed out, probably changes customer behavior to browse with the doors open instead of closed.", "I truly think it's hilarious you think like this. Thanks for entertaining me.", "We've had these here for a while. They completely suck. The inventory is never right. Looking through the glass was just fine, this is an awful change and it has changed our shopping habits. Walgreens is the nearby place we would only go out of convenience, that we are less likely to go to now because these things are that annoying.", "This has been going on in Asia for quite some time. Although, not sure about the cost/benefit with frozen items. \n\nMakes more sense with selling room temperature items like cosmetics or for moments where consumers are idle/waiting, like subway walls or elevator doors.", "I guess there are some bad stores out there.", "Walgreens is the most American of stores. They sell prescriptions that cost way more than they should, and so you'd think they'd be in the business of making people healthier, right? Nope, let's just sell nothing else but chips, candy and soda to make sure these people coming in for their diabetes, blood pressure, hypertension and other drugs keep needing them. \n\nNobody should be buying anything at Walgreens. Whatever they sell that you need you can buy elsewhere. Don't give these vultures any money.", "Think like what? Realistically? Is that why you’ve run out of anything to say? Go ahead and keep buying shit that was advertised to you while being smug enough to think you’re immune. Just like daddy wants you to.", "At first it seemed neat. 'hey look it's showing you everything in that freezer without you looking through a fogged up window at poorly placed product'\n\nThen the ads hit and it's 30 seconds before you get to see the product again... Not sure I would ever shop here after seeing these", "You keep saying that like it's relevant... do you not understand the difference between static packaging on a product and a moving video screen?\n\nYou see no difference between a bottle of milk and a 30 foot video screen?\n\nYou keep calling me names while proving over and over again that you don't understand what you're talking about.", "Someone bout to hack these doors and put on porn", "Not at my Walgreens.", "The big problem is that you can’t see their general contents from a distance. You have to trigger all the sensors to find the box you want. \n\nAnd it looks like they may not have inventory sensors inside like an Amazon Go store, so the menu may not even reflect reality. And that’s not a problem you have with a glass door. \n\nThe problem isn’t the ad, it’s the ad coming at the expense of the experience.", "Or you could pay $ to skip the ad", "I discovered a mute button on the one at my gas station.", "I guess I have just the luckiest Walgreens ever then since the few around me have been fine. Weird. \n\nThe stock amount didn't just change with the screen installation. Your store didn't just become bad at keeping stock, people are just now realizing it with the screen I guess.\n\nI've never had issues.", "I already do that because most of the time the screen image on the door is not was actually behind the door. So now I just open every fucking one of them. Fuck their electric bill", ">\tIf product isn't there, that's the local store's fault. They're meant to alert and keep track so the staff can keep it properly stocked.\n\nThat’s great, but as a customer I don’t care who’s “fault” it is, I care that it’s an abysmal customer experience. As does every other top level commenter here with similar experiences with these cooler displays. \n\nMost advertisements don’t require you to interact with them to purchase something. Advertising by nature is passive - putting a physical barrier in between me and the product, that makes my product buying experience markedly worse, is not passive.", "Or a Rick Roll.", "but people do that now anyway, especially when the glass steams up. The amount of energy saved by having the insulated doors would more than likely still be more energy efficient with the extra few seconds it's open. Glass is a good conductor of heat and the fridges/freezers don't have to work harder because it's not siphoning energy from the heating system because of the insulation.", "I don't love it, but I don't hate it. It means they don't have to face stuff so much, allows for a \"cleaner\" product display. That said, it needs work, UI and business is not up to snuff, but it's not a terrible idea.", "I'd probably open the door more. I need to see how much it weighs and other details. Maybe this pack has diced carrots added but this pack has peas, and this other pack is just corn. Then I do some quick calculations on like cost per 100 grams to see which of the 4 different brands of frozen corn is the better value.\n\nUnless all of that info is printed clearly on the door then it's useless.", "A soon as you walk up to it the ad goes away and it displays what should be inside. Of course it doesn't let you know if it is sold out or not so you will have to open it to find out.", "Idk it works in the one I go to", "Try just pushing buttons near the screen. It varies which one does it but one typically turns those ads off", "LOL", "This whole comment section is people looking to crap on this, but it's not a terrible idea.", "The contents are in the same doors that they always have been for me. Second door on the right is the milk/juice at my store. It's been there since the start. They didn't change their inventory. But maybe they did at literally every store but the several near me. I just don't believe the stores near me are magically better.\n\nWhen it's glass, I never could easily tell what's inside because the stupid door would fog up. \n\nI think people are just more sensitive to ads than they realize. I see more ads in a Walmart than a Walgreens, yet no posts about Walmart", "You only want to see a difference to have a tiny victory against a giant corporation that still got you to buy their shit. Yes, the labeling on every single one of those packages is 100% advertising to you. Is ‘I specifically only want to be advertised to this way and not this way’ the hill you’re dying on? So you’re senses are ok to be used for a little advertising?", "ahh yes, a picture of an item will definitely stop the people who weren't satisfied looking through glass at an item...i \n\n\nAlso, clearly shown in this video, is giant 5 foot tall ads for bullshit, clearly visible in the store, so I don't really understand what you are going on about.", "I am not sure where it was but a restaurant had ads that would play on their menu screen. So while looking at the screen to decide what I want I get an ad and have to wait for it to finish so I can continue choosing.", "trash human behavior", "Okay you're way in a small niche of doing that lol. More power to ya.", "Braised beef is brilliant.", "It's going to cause people with ADHD/autism to not get any shopping done.", "I've seen a lot of stupid ass ideas in my time, but goddamn this is extra stupid. \nOn top of all the other problems mentioned, who the hell is going to fix those doors when they glitch out and start malfunctioning?", "Why? It looks like they have everything laid out on the screen.", "This is a soapbox I've been on for a few decades. The whole point of commercials were to help stations afford to continue to provide you content. Which is why terrestrial signal is free. Then at some point HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime come along. BUT, you had to pay in order to watch uninterrupted, ad-free content. It used to be core programming was free and you paid by each additional channel that you wanted over and above the FREE content, which was free due to having to watch the annoying commercials. Monthly cost was only to cover the equipment and month to month service cost. You could always avoid those costs with a terrestrial antenna and not having premium channels. THUS, if you're paying for the service there should be no commercials at all, across the board, since there is no equipment needs now due to every TV having a dashboard. I'm now at the point where I refuse to watch a single thing that has ads, unless I'm watching over a terrestrial antenna (college football). Companies are able to double dip on customers because its expected to have to just deal with ads everywhere.", "It's staggering how sensitive people are acting towards this when they are surrounded by ads at Walmart and other stores always. Oh well.\n\nI've not seen the issues people are randomly stating on here. The inventory is fine, I have never seen things suddenly out. Unless there's some idiots overbuying toilet paper.", "This also assumes that products inside won't shuffle around a bit. People will see an image and open to find a different flavor or item in the slot... this alone will cause excessive opening over plain glass.", "I figure in a few years most of these won't be worth the maintenance costs and wil just be off, blocking the veiw in.", "Does anyone buy TP based on brand? I always just buy the cheapest option that's at least 2-ply.", "If I saw this at my grocery store I wouldn't come back", "Worst part of these is you can’t see in if the item is stocked or not! I left after opening 3 doors and the drink I wanted was gone", "Assuming such a place exists", "Started? A year ago, says the video....", "Wouldn’t it be nice if corporations that spent all this money on this crap, actually used it towards their employees?", "You just put an item in the door to stop it from closing thereby negating the ads and not causing any damage you can get in trouble for. They will literally have to assign walking down these aisles to make sure the doors are closed as part of someone's job. \n\n\nThat's it reddit, we are now job creators. just jam these bad boys open with merch from the shelf", "If you can't understand what I wrote, I don't know what to tell you or how to make it any clearer.", "You either die a hero...", "This is a different store than my store. \n\nMy local store just got them. Half are broken and you can’t see what’s inside. \n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/ziFyfnS.jpg", "I would open those too far JUST to break them on purpose", "Naive fools like you will be the reason it will be legal to project advertising on the moon or directly into our unconscious minds when that technology becomes available... because you think there's no difference between one kind of advertising and another.\n\nWhich is of course idiotic even with the current state of technology.\n\nBecause you think there's no difference between a label on a bottle and a 30 foot video screen. Which of course there is.", "Had a friend who help program these things. It goes deeper than just the ads as well. They have camera's built in to track demographics, what people are looking at, and how long they look.", "They already took them out at one I go to occasionally. They might be starting to realize that it hurts sales when people can’t see what the fuck they’re looking for.", "The worst is fast food..\n\nGive me about 30 seconds to look at tour menu, oh wait...it changes, ok menus back...wait its an ad now...oh and the menu is back, where did i leave off again? Oh shit...more fucking ads\n\nI just walk out and tell them their menu is broken", "When those first came out, you could press the 2nd button on the right side and it would mute it. \n\nNow? Fuck you and listen to Billy Bush and some shit about Hollywood I couldn't give a shit about.", "I 100% support the idea, but I don’t know if enough people would do it and at bare minimum Walgreens could ban you from their stores. The only way we will every genuinely defeat this kind of stuff is through legislation. Legislation that may also kill Reddit, Facebook, twitter, etc, but so be it.", "No. Do people not even look up what these doors do? What year do they think it is?\n\nWalgreens does the same thing as Walmart. When items are scanned at checkout, the distribution keeps track of inventory amount and arranges to ship when getting low.\n\nThe doors are only displaying what Walgreens stocks in that store. It's even customizable for each store so products that aren't available in the south aren't displayed.\n\nThe trays on the inside stocker side even match the screen because it's all the same stock they have ALWAYS stocked. \n\nThe items are even in the SAME door as they were before the screens installed. Lol. Pizzas still behind the same pizza door, folks!", "Can I get adblock for real life?\n\nI hope they all fucking break.", "This is such a silly, wasteful use of electricity.", "Walgreens owns CVS, so it's only a matter of time.", "Oh that is so fucking obnoxious! \n\nAt first I was like, alright but it's only the logos of each product in front of its shelf, it still works kinda seamless.\n\nBut imagine trying to find something when those fucking ads start flashing. Absolutely awful idea.", "Go away im baitin", "This looks extremely inconvenient. Don't you just go to another store?", "... Unless this is what's inside so you don't need to open the door to browse. \n.", "Yup. Advertising like this makes me hate the product... so unless there's some study about how making people hate your product somehow increases sales it's totally counter-productive.\n\nReally? I can't even pump 5 dollar a gallon gas in peace?", "This happened to me too. The ads kept following me when I was trying to see what ice cream they had and when I opened the door, basically empty and nothing matching what was on the screen. Just a huge waste of time and extremely annoying.", "Do you have AdBlocker? I thought it filtered out the ads?", "> There are a lot of sensitive butterflies commenting in this thread about the ads.\n\nYeah man, people who don't want advertising shoved in their face in yet another shitty way sure are sensitive", "This right here! My local walgeens did this and I made two selections based on the TV screens that were both sold out. So then I opened each door and stood looking for 30 seconds.", "Ethical boundaries? What is unethical about serving you an ad while you are buying another product? Why do you think you should be compensated for this? Do you also think you should be paid every time you drive down a highway and there is a billboard?", "They are the worst thing ever. It hides the products behind ads until you're directly in front of it so you can't get an idea of where anything is from a distance. \nThen when it shows everything indie it gives this illusion that the shelves are full and have every option just for you to open the door and there are 5 items and none of them are where they're supposed to be.", "Can't wait for someone to hack these things to flash disturbing pornographic images, but have them only do it for half a second every day or so.", "Lol that’s a gigantic jump. You’re on Reddit, a company that generates most of its revenue through ads. I get it, you’re angry and you want anything to be my fault for some reason, but we’re basically on the same side here. The difference between us seems to be that you believe individuals have the power to negate the effectiveness of advertising, whereas I think it’s something that has to be legislated against. For example, I don’t think any of the powers that be give a shit if you hold the door open. They’ll gladly let you solely interact with the ads of their labeling if that’s what you want, as long as you are there and buying their products. And as long as you are doing that, they will keep advertising, and eventually it will work on you. Maybe it’s placement in a movie or game, maybe it’s a Reddit post, I don’t know. But it will eventually work. And these screens will work on people, or they just won’t and they’ll go away. But I think these will sadly probably be a net positive in revenue.", "Yah just really shoves it in your face doesn it? Can't see where you're going. \n\nAnd Walmart and literally every retail store everyone goes to regularly.....and aren't making such a big deal about them as this.\n\nThis is pathetic", "AFAIK even the paid version has advertisements on certain shows because they're basically forced to. They can either have the show (with advertisements), or the people owning the show won't let it air on Hulu.", "Advertising is a crime against humanity", "I know platforms like Hulu can detect if you have completed the ad or not so I imagine that the Gas Pump might only get paid if there is successful completion of the ad video. If that system is in place then I can imagine a scenario where it is slowed down. That might be too complex to retrofit the gas pump mechanism to be worth it to them so they probably just do \"dumb\" playing of the video.", "I think you accidentally some words.", "If people didn’t care, posts like this wouldn’t be a thing.", "Next they will force you to watch a couple of ads before you get your gas. Just like you have to watch 3 minutes of commercials before about 2 minutes of your favorite dating show...", "Well I don’t like this one bit", "Hahaha okay. Let's get you back to bed", "Lol you auto downvote me as soon as I reply, but it's everyone else that's sensitive... Riiiight", "I feel like this is part of the reason for these God awful things. Then the store looks better even if the fridge is not stocked.", "Where's Ad Block when you need it", "when will marketing analysts realize this shit does not work...", "As an employee, can you explain why the self checkout at every store I go to has the volume up to 11? Every single store. \n\nEdit - NVM, that's CVS.", "I'm starting to think the first real use for AR will be to block ads from your vision.", "I think there shouldn't be billboards on the highway.\n\nAnd yes... advertisers should be required to compensate those they are advertising to.\n\nWhy do you think they shouldn't have to? They're basically forcing you to provide them with a service.", "I let my YouTube Premium lapse recently due to financial problems, and Jesus Christ, the amount of unskippable ads is outrageous. And the shit YouTube allows as ads on its platform is extremely questionable. Not to mention almost every video has a sponsorship bit. I get it, get your money, but god damn. I had to sell some belongings just so I had enough to start up my membership again because I couldn’t deal with the constant ads.", "Would a powerful magnet harm these screens?", "wtf, how do you know what they are selling.", "You've clearly never worked retail... or paid attention while shopping. \n\nThings move all the time. You might get a influx of demand for a particular product and need to stock 2x what you normally do for something. Where does that product go? If everything is statically assigned then there's no space behind that door. \n\nWhen things go out of stock does it disappear from the door? No. It doesn't. So what the hell are you on about? Forget the fact that \"out of stock\" doesn't mean that stock inventory shows 0. There could be a pallet of the crap in the inventory system because it's on a pallet in the back. If it's not in the freezer it doesn't matter. How about the numpties that move stuff on their own? Ever find eggs in the toy aisle of walmart? That's inventory that's tracked in the system but is nebulously unavailable for the customer.\n\nWhat year do you think it is that there isn't human factor here? People are at an all time \"stupid\". Including you for thinking that this is a good idea at all. Glass worked fine... For literally ever. This helps nothing.\n\nYou might also want to lookup who sets the organization of the doors. the same low paid retail workers that don't give a fuck if something is stocked and blocked to begin with. but yeah, you live in your head utopia where hiding product from people is okay just to cram more ads into people's faces.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs", "Yeah I'm not going to Walgreens anymore.", "Whatever the fuck that means lmao\n\nYou're a cartoon, thanks for the laughs this morning", "Uh.. it doesn't though. They have completely separate ownership groups and CVS is actually bigger than Walgreens.\n\nYou may be thinking of the Walgreens-Rite Aid acquisition that was supposed to happen a while back but that fell through. Walgreens just bought a ton of Rite Aid stores and rebranded them.", ">Lol that’s a gigantic jump. \n\nSo in other words I'm right but you're just not honest enough to admit it.\n\nI think we're done here.", "They \"work\" in that they're getting revenue from brands for advertising, but of course you realize that's completely irrelevant to the detrimental impact of the shopper experience.\n\nStop sucking Walgreens' dick.", "it is. You can see the real product on the shelf. Now you just see some image, without real life reference ho big it is.", ">invest in better software for our registers\n\nI worked at Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) 20 years ago and the POS system was incredibly outdated, buggy and just overall a pain in the ass to use. A former employee came in and he was shocked to see the same software on the register he was using in the early 90s, also remarking how it sucked ass.\n\nI shit you not, 15 year later after I quit, went into that same OSH to get some hardware and sure enough, same fucking software running the registers. We’re talking 30+ years of the same shitty interface. \n\nIt’s no wonder they were struggling and eventually had to sell. Parent company was Sears and the corporate culture was hands down the worst environment I’ve ever worked in in my many years of retail. Absolutely a fucking nightmare company to work for. Literally the only place I’ve had a manger tell me “You can’t quit because I’m firing you.” after I told them I wasn’t going to come in anymore because putting up with their horse shit wasn’t worth $7.25/hr.", "And to cover up how empty their coolers are right now.", "I fucking hate it soooo much. We should throw rocks at them or something", "hahahahahahahahahahahahah", "Fuck this shit", "Pocket knife would be handy to just cut any wires going to the door from the frame…", "That's assuming there will be a somewhere else. All these companies copy each other once there's even the slightest sniff of profit to be made.", "I have encountered them daily for weeks. I call them the Doors of Disappointment. When you get in frint of them, they do not go clear, they show you they planogram pics of what SHOULD be in there. They do NOT grey out out of stock items. You think, oh, I'll have THAT (ad influence irrelevant.) Then you open the door and all that's in there is fucking ginger ale, becsuse the vendors that are supposed to be stocking these things are so understaffed that I can only get the drink I actually want 3 days a week. \n\nKeeping track of what's in stock versus what's in the fridge is one oroblem, displaying it in real time on the doors is another. Both rectifiable, but probably not within the budgetary limits under which these pieces of trash were purchased.", "If you open the door, it fogs the glass up. The next person can’t see what’s in there.", "Wow. They just bought up the Bimart pharmacies, where I work. From what I gathered those pharmacies lost about $9mil over the last five years. With about $3mil last year alone. We joked that since they sold the pharmacies that maybe we could get some new registers.", "A Stinger™ brand window punch tool sells for under $20 and is a must have tool for motorists in emergency situations. If you must break out your car window with minimal effort, look no further than the Stinger™. One light tap is all you need to shatter even the toughest window glass.", "I've never experienced what you're going on about. \n\nEvery grocery store, every retail store, has consistent aisles. Specific product may change but VERY rarely. Reliable products are going to be in the same spot as expected because that is what shoppers want.\n\nTide bleach is going to be in the same spot, on the same aisle, week after week. That is a convenience to the consumer. Shoppers know which aisle to go to that shop regularly.\n\nSame for Walgreens. The milk and juice has been the second door from the right at my store for years.\n\nIf you find eggs in the toy aisle, it's idiots consumers who take something from where it is supposed to be and got lazy on returning it.\n\n\nEvery weekly shipment that comes in a store goes on a palette and pushed to the aisle it always goes to. And companies like Walmart and Walgreens restocks before it's entirely sold unless the demand is stupid like toilet paper.", "I think there is an argument to be made that ads entire purpose is to manipulate your brain into brand recognition which could be considered a form of mental harassment.\n\nYou have no control over it's effect. You're forced to see them. And it causes you to purchase things against your best interest; pay more for a product that isn't necessarily the best for it's price.", "Video screens you say? It'd be a shame if they were hacked, and broadcast saucy media. A real shame.", "Ah right. You've never seen it so it never happens. Got it.\n\nOnce again... tell me you never worked retail without telling me you've never worked retail.\n\nAny given store carries many thousands of sku's. Shit moves all the time. Just because the same 5 items you buy week after week doesn't does not make your argument valid.", "The video gas pumps are like half the reason I’ve decided that my next car will be electric, I swear", ">Why do you think they shouldn't have to? They're basically forcing you to provide them with a service.\n\nBecause you have the ability to go somewhere that doesn't do this. As absurd or inconvenient as it might seem you literally can just not go to Walgreens or the gas station that has ad serving pumps. You can choose to go somewhere else and while it might be more and more inconvenient or impossible to find these places you still do have the choice. You are willingly walking in their doors or driving up to their pumps to buy from them and getting upset at how they do business. They should absolutely not have to compensate you for it. \n\nNow, I will say this. It is getting very close to the point where this type of thing is inescapable, so perhaps we should look into electing someone like Andrew Yang. Maybe businesses that opt in to serving ads at their establishment are required to pay a tax, a tax that is low enough where they still make money from ads but the collective of these taxes are distributed back to Americans through a sort of Universal Basic Income.", "/r/ABoringDystopia", "I've worked grocery. We didn't just grab a bunch of produce or cans and shove it to a random aisle. I was a total idiot working there and would have no idea where to take shit if it wasn't already determined. The shipping clerk had a list and we sorted everything then pushed it out and started the restock.\n\nWe didn't put the damn milk in the aisle with cat food.", "> If product isn't there, that's the local store's fault. \n\nIt's not like there's a global supply chain crisis right now and grocery stores across the country are having issues keeping normal everyday things on the shelves consistently or anything...", "Its going to cause me not to go to their store if I want anything cold. At least until all the stores start doing it...", "People are going to prop those open out of annoyance of those ads and not being able to see inside.", "Just buy elsewhere?", "As long as morons don't overly buy toilet paper....\n\nI've yet to see a lack of anything in the Midwest so far. No problems buying products at the grocery store or places like Walmart", "This is why I’m amazed that anyone pays for cable anymore. We’ve come to accept that watching ads online is how we “pay” for media, why in the dinosaur business model fuck would anyone pay for cable which includes 16 minutes of ads for every 44 minutes of entertainment in 2121?", "It plays ads until you walk within a few get of the door. Then it switches to what's behind the door display.", "> I just walk out and tell them their menu is broken\n\nthe employees dont care.", "Mountain Dew is for me and you.", "Yup, a lot of the shows that are accessed through partnerships and so on don't care -- a friend of mine binges a lot of the trash \"History\" channel shows (alien stuff and so on) as a guilty pleasure and is always complaining about how they still get 4-5 commercial breaks per show.", "These are literally the STUPIDEST things in the history of grocery doors......", "Other people have said that they work fine in other places. It’s definitely something that can be fixed, but depending on where you are and how profitable the store is it might be a while. I think the assumption that this is just an impossible task is just out of frustration. We laud the accomplishments of automation, programming, and technology. This is no different, we just don’t want it to work so some people will say it’s impossible. If every Walgreens (and other stores) in the country is going to have one of these, I’d bet money they’ll get pretty damn accurate eventually.", "They’re clearly struggling to stay profitable and relevant in the age of Amazon. If they were smart, they would take page out of Trader Joe’s book and create a nice shopping experience that is hard to replicate online.", "I can ONLY know what I want by seeing it, laying cold and lifeless next to its frozen brethren..", "This is solutionism at its worst.", "Some people might prop them open out of annoyance. The extra cost might eventually get Walgreens to not install them in other locations.", "using a nail punch on the screen", "LPT: You can mute those ads. Click the button that is one down from the top right and they will be silenced!", "If you think I’m gonna just stand there for 10 full seconds you’re fucking delusional", "It always kills me how ads describe their microwaved food as \"juicy\" or \"crispy\" lol. OK Healthy Choice lol.", "Here on the west coast my local store regularly has large gaps on the shelves. Food items, not non-food things like paper goods and cleaning supplies. Plenty of soda, chips, and corn syrup laden junk food, but actual food is sometimes just not there. \"Just in time\" inventory systems fall apart when you can't expect to get daily deliveries of exactly what you need every time 100% reliably.", "The images don’t reflect what’s in there. Highly upsetting experience with these. 10/10 do not recommend.", "What if that politician was just a wee bit racist though", "Can't expect advertising to get better, just more invasive.", "If I ever see this in person, I will make sure to open the door all the way so it stays open", "lol y’all are pathetic. I’m not sucking Walgreens dick. You guys can’t have a genuine conversation without getting triggered and assuming everyone is the enemy, how are you going to topple the megacorps? The shoppers experience was never the goal. Their wallet is the goal. Who the fuck said anything about the experience being better? Why do you need to shift the goal posts, is it because that’s easier than accepting the reality that this kind of advertisement is cost effective?", "Then said politician is already ahead of the curve in that department for only being a wee bit racist.", "What are the odds you’ll walk up right when an ad starts? The video is :32 and the ad starts at :29. It looks like the ad is finishing as the video ends so it doesn’t seem like the ad is even 10 seconds.", "No I’m right! We’re done here! Reeeeeeeeeee!\n\nEvery single one of you folds when you can’t accept the reality that you’re a pawn in the dystopia you think you’re fighting against.", "You should stop going there. And remember to tell them that those doors are the reason.", "These will be hacked to show porn. I gurantee it.", "Just get an adblocker extension", "They did something similar with some fast food restraunts. I'm short sighted so I have to wait 15 seconds to get about 30 seconds of menu time.", "I was disgusted just by watching this video, if I were to see this in person, I would actively avoid that store. I would even do that even if it meant I had to pay more money.", "Crowbars will be outlawed if they get in the way of profits.", "Every bit of visual real estate is being filled with ads. You drive on a highway and see a nice view of the sun set one day. A few months later and there is a giant billboard covering the area. Every lap post has a poster board. People even pay for clothes that have a Monster ad.", "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should", "/r/crappydesign", "NGL, if this became a repeated thing, it legit might make them take them down. I would even consider this white-hat hacking.", "Huh? Why would I?", "Thanks, I hate it.", "I remember that I have seems something along this on reddit some day ago. My google-fu so far just came up with [a single reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/fgwm7t/gas_pumps_extra_slow_so_youre_forced_to_see_more/) from two years ago and no further sources so far about that, so maybe this is fake or just something else that got misinterpreted by OP", ">Ethical boundaries? What is unethical about serving you an ad while you are buying another product?\n\nAdvertising is inherently immoral", "Don't these screens generate a lot of heat?", "Advertising is starting to feel very distopian...", "You literally started the conversation by defending that its 'not that big of an impact to shoppers,' when it very much is.", "That's exactly how Cable TV started. Premium channels with no ads! Then the ads came...", "Bold of you to assume more places will continue to exist that don’t adopt this practice.", "They did ask the cities and governments for permission, which in a democracy is like asking you.", "If enough people do it, corporate will. And then all the employees well get fired at that location and new red shirts will be hired.", "Try pressing the button second down from top on the right side. Ive been to a couple stations around me that play ads and they all seem to mute when i press that button regardless of a label. \n\nOR the button could cause the gas station to explode so be careful", "Reeeeee we need to be more energy efficient!\n\n\"Bro, look we put a screen in your freezer door.\"\n\nHow many of these are going to be broken and blacked out in the first 6 months?", "Any interruption at all is intrusive. A 4 second YouTube ad is annoying and it happens on my computer, not while I’m out trying to run an errand. Imagine if you stop at a red light, and when it turns green, the car in front of you doesn’t move until you finish watching an ad on its back windshield. It’s more annoying than a billboard or something that doesn’t interrupt your momentum regardless of how long it lasts.\n\n\nI don’t understand why you feel the ad has more right to be seen than a person has right to go about their business undisturbed", "Yup, really makes it bearable. Ive also seen it work on Casey's gas stations in the midwest", "ITT,\n\nPeople who go to walgreens for the shopping experience? \n\nI got to walgreens for meds and when there's nothing else open.", "For my sake. So I don't have to get that in the stores I go to. Is it more convenient than seeing through the glass? Does it annoy you to have big flashy commercials trying to capture your attention at all times? I'm not saying you're wrong or right for liking/disliking this.", "Corporate will not fire the employees because a customer walked out, out of frustration with the menu.", "Yah definitely tracks the inventory but if you've worked in retail you'll know the actually inventory gets off a lot due to theft / damaged product / whatever, and if they have it and just haven't stocked it then the door won't know. But if they are actually out of something, it does change to a grayed out out of stock version of the item or a in stock soon. I work for the company that made the software side of these (different projects though) so heard all about them tech wise.", "You're confused here. Companies aren't double dipping. The cable company sees nothing from the ads run on channels. The subscription to cable pays for their infrastructure/equipment and to pay the channels. Those channels use their subscription cut and the ad revenue to fund content. The subscription cuts wouldn't alone be enough to produce content. Yes, there is also a profit involved but that's just capitalism. Theoretically, you can share in that profit by participating in the stock market. If you have a 401k you likely are benefitting. \n\nI'm all for changing the way society works, but in this case since advertising pays for a significant amount of things I enjoy including every sport and many great TV shows I'm ok with it. The alternative would be something like a la carte subscriptions or charges for every game or episode which in the long run wouldn't save us any money.", "Why? The door shows you exactly* what is behind the door and in exactly what location. They also will have a sold out or ghosted out image if they are out of stock on the item. \n\nOP was disingenuous with their post -- this isn't advertising space this is displaying literally what is inside that exact freezer or cooler.", "Its sad to see how many ppl will downvote this. This works obviously or a billion dollar company with the smartest people in the business would obviously not implement these. \n\nIts still /r/latestagecapitalism though ;)", "Fuck that", "Because if it works properly it really isn’t near as negatively impactful as people imply. If these were made simply to be more green and energy efficient and didn’t have ads, would anyone care? Which was literally my whole point. Getting hung up on how they might not work right is missing the point. It’s just one more tool in the set of thousands that designed to make you buy certain products, and will almost certainly work. It will probably even work on some redditors in here bitching about it if it becomes widespread enough. The problem with these doors isn’t the design, it’s the use. I would 100% support a door that wasn’t glass and could retain cold better. That lessens Walgreens carbon footprint, something they will 100% use as a ‘look how good we are’ advertisement if these things do become widespread and are energy efficient.", "This is exactly what the Newark airport looks like. Screens on every single table that you can’t remove or turn off.", "Fucking dystopian", "But the paid version has zero ads except for Grey's Anatomy.", "This makes me so much less tempted to buy.", "I have small screwdriver for the speaker holes in that case", "I don’t get gas at gas stations with sceens at their pumps blasting adds. And I will not shop at a wallgreens with this bullshit. \n\nI hope other consumers do the same when it comes to forced screen attention and adds", "What a waste I mean literally give me one good reason why this exists? It’s not even updating when product is sold out so it’s literally just a fucking ad not an indicator of what’s behind the glass most of the time. It’s a waste of electricity waste of resources waste of an LED panel etc. just make it fucking glass so you can see what’s in there before opening the goddamn door how hard is this? Are they really that strapped for cash they have to sell fucking Ads in front of products which are technically ads themselves?! We really are moving towards Idiocracy here", "Oh this is terrible, but not for some of the reasons people here are flipping out about. I also just get a laugh out of redditors thinking they are immune to advertisement when this platform literally makes a profit by advertising.", "I work retail. Corporate yells at us if not enough people choose to use the self checkout stands. Kroger wants 70% of all orders to go through sco and they're willing to cut checker hours to force people to go to sco because of long lines. So yes, corporate will punish employees for things that are out of their control.", "And I said if enough people do it.", "Agreed", "Yeah, while I didn't directly work on it, I worked at a consulting firm that developed the IOT devices for it. I like the idea purely on a data/technology standpoint but practically it causes more problems than it solves.\n\nI don't remember if this actually ended up being a thing, but one idea was to track user's eye movements to see what drink caught their attention first, so they can alter the ads on the fly. What kind of world are we living in.", "This is simply the digitization of what they already do. Every sticker on a refrigerator/freezer at a grocery store/drug store is paid for by a CPG company.", "With any luck those ads might eventually pay for the price of installing these expensive doors in every store.", "> Ethical boundaries? What is unethical about serving you an ad while you are buying another product? \n\nHumans deserve to be able to live life without being constantly assaulted by advertising.\n\nI understand it's easy to fall into the trap of it feeling normal that every single inch of Western civilisation (and to be honest, the rest of the world too at this point) is plastered in ads, but it really doesn't have to be like that.\n\n>Do you also think you should be paid every time you drive down a highway and there is a billboard?\n\nNo. I think they should be banned, which they are in my country.", "They should at least use screens with no backing on them so you can fucking see behind it....", "using more on electricity than they get from the ads will make them rip them out real fast.", "> Imagine a world without billboards, radio ads, television ads, sky ads, car ads.. \n\n[This may interest you](https://www.boredpanda.com/before-after-removing-ads/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic)\n\nHonestly, id love to see something like this take hold in the west. When every city/town looks like [this](https://i.redd.it/93xpa2xr1ry41.jpg), is there really any point in having varied architecture? If you are gonna cover everything with ads, may as well use a concrete box.", "I guess higher population for sure affects it. Some areas not as much.", "If those products were right where the ad showed it, it makes sense. If they’re not this is downright confusing for the shopper.", "I can’t wait for someone to hack them all to display hardcore porn 😂", "When the law conflicts with our desires, then we must operate outside the law. - Tracy Jordan\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsmOolws\\_\\_8&ab\\_channel=30RockOfficial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsmOolws__8&ab_channel=30RockOfficial)", "If they would allow you to watch ads for a gas discount, it would really help all those people stranded and begging for gas money.", "This was almost a good idea.\n\nWhere this will work is places that realize the doors were glass for a reason and not have the ads cover EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO SEE.\n\nThey seem to have forgotten that a significant percentage of sales are driven by impulse when you SEE an actual product you weren't planning to buy but now that you see it, you think \"that looks interesting\".\n\nNow people will walk down this aisle with minds that are trained, almost from birth, to literally ignore what the screens are showing you in order to find the one thing you were looking for and NOTHING ELSE.\n\nYeah, it's going to fail. If they make the ads just small features in the glass, though, that will work.", "this shit is wack, cyberpunk 2077 vibe, you have a drink then you T-Pose then you teleport", "I hate Walgreens. There's always an old lady with 10 coupons in front of me that takes 40 minutes to check out.", "That's actually a good point. I like that...", "I saw this when I was in San Francisco and I thought damn this is dumb.", "Such a bad idea.", "Oh I guess if youre grocery shopping I could see it’s annoyance. I really just go for prescriptions so it’s nice having something to look at while I wait.", "And the next step they'll start beaming ads right into our dreams.", "That just sounds like them paying us to watch the ads with extra steps.", "We really are charging head first into Idiocracy times. “Carl’s Jr. Fuck you. I’m eating.”", "I imagine the people at Wallgreens corporate were patting backs and french kissing each other when they came up with this brilliantly idiotic idea.", "The person's name you're looking for is Gilberto Kassab, the mayor of São Paulo from 2006 to 2013.\n\n> In September 2006, the mayor of São Paulo passed the so-called “Clean City Law\" that outlawed the use of all outdoor advertisements, including on billboards, transit, and in front of stores.", "Right hand side second button from top is the mute button.", "That's part of Banksy's point. It's so common for advertisers to shove their crap down your throat that everyone's desensitized to it. Sure it's not against the law to be an asshole, but people should boycott and avoid people/companies doing things so unacceptable, but we're all beat down with the idea that this is OK. Home owners used to put big obnoxious signs in their yard, and paint their houses crazy colors around here, but then HOAs popped up to stop that (for the record, I hate HOAs, but that's not the point). Things can be done about invasive and hostile marketing, but nothing is being done about it. Banksy is trying to get people to realize what their situation really is, and what battles they lose with their apathy.", "Thank you for asking, I’ll try to clarify. \n\nIt’s the other way around. It’s not that immunity to ads means you don’t go to Walgreens, it’s that once you step into Walgreens you’re being bombarded with ads and it’s naive to think you just aren’t affected at all by those ads. I’ve said this in another comment, but advertising is rarely about getting you to go to a certain place, especially when it comes to fast food or a convenience store. That’s all location. But what you actually buy there is definitely influenced by ads. So, the only way to really be ‘100% immune to ads’ is to completely avoid them. Which means shopping locally for only produce, meat, etc and cooking everything at home, or growing your own. It would also almost definitely mean not being on Reddit, which is full of ads. Ads are very difficult to avoid, but avoiding them is pretty much the only way to not be influenced.", "Bonus, can't see how much stuff is out of stock.", "Aren’t the products inside already ads?", "> so unless there's some study about how making people hate your product somehow increases sales it's totally counter-productive.\n\nThere is.\n\nThe small number of people like yourself who see an ad and get angry is absolutely nothing in comparison to the name recognition they get.\n\nDo you think companies like BP give a shit about pissing you off at the gas station when they can literally spill 200 million gallons of crude oil into the fucking ocean and receive barely any consequences?\n\nYou (and I) are ants to them. They don't give a fuck if you're angry because they know you have to drive to work to keep food on the table. Your only other choices are equally large corporations with the same motives.\n\nPast a certain point, advertising is about keeping your brand name in the public consciousness, not making people feel good about your product. People are still going to buy Coca Cola no matter how prevalent and unecessary their advertising seems.\n\n\n----\n\nAt the end of the day, if a company continues to do something, it's because it's profitable. Advertising executives know exactly what they're doing.", "Ted Kaczynski was right.", "When I was a pharmacist at Cvs, people would often ask me where they could get otc meds cheaper. Especially egregious is what they charge for generic Zyrtec. Cvs charges $6 for 5 tablets. Costco charges $14 for 365 tablets. Guess what people chose every time? I’d point out drug A was cheaper at Walmart by half. Point out that drug B was cheaper at Kroger. Both Walmart and a Kroger were spitting distance from my store. Still made no difference. These chain pharmacies have these idiots hooked and they know it.", "I can confirm the Walgreens on the corner of Las Vegas Blvd & E Sahara Ave has these video screens installed on their beverage display cases. The screen do not indicate stocking levels so you still have to open the door to see if the product(s) being advertised is actually available. Advertisements are taking over our lives 🤦🏽‍♂️.", ">Just don't shop at Walgreens, problem solved\n\nWhy would the other stores not follow suit if it's profitable?\n\nAs much as redditors like to act as though they're going to rise up and boycott Walgreens over this, it's not going to impact their bottom line.", "Extremely doubt you watch those 3 shows anyways", "The Walgreens where I live already implemented that feature. I was about 2 seconds from kicking the screen and walking out. I shouldn’t need to sit through ads when all I want is water when it’s 100 degrees out.", "> Imagine a world without ... radio ads, television ads, \n\nFor those two you can have that world today. Satellite radio and internet streaming radio (usable in cars) are available right now. With regard to TV ads, DVRs have been a thing for 20+ year and ad-free on-demand streaming services are commonplace now.\n\nDoing both of those myself, I have to say its wonderful.", "All the better for hiding the food shortages from you!", "Yes, bit this special Walgreens buttplug connects to your phone and screens you for colon cancer.", "So I was told my en employee recently these screens caused otherwise cold items in the front to heat up and in some cases melt (ice, ice cream). It took them months to figure out the issue and they lost a lot of product. \n\nThe doors are heavy and TBH these screens are a power drain at this scale. \n\nBut hey- they got that ad space that customers have been clamoring for! /s", "Or even better, push all the doors open until they lock in place and then do your shopping. Any money they make from ads should be lost in refrigeration costs.", "I damn near can't play Cyberpunk 2077 anymore because it's tough to see that world as entertainment when the real world gets closer and closer to matching that reality every day...", "We'll come up with new jokes when they come up with a new business model.", "For sure, I manage what I can. But if you choose to go out into society and exist.. anywhere outside your own ad free bubble you're going to see it everywhere.", "Tracking Sao Paulo and their amazing initiative. Let's me know I'm not insane for wanting these things to go away.", "Yes, I can't stand those things. If I wanna get news updates or any kind of updates, I'll look it up myself.", "I started taping the speaker with duct tape at every one I use, technically vandalism but I see it as a protest against forced noise pollution", "These are huge in Asia, not shocking to see them here", "Almost as annoying as gas pump ads that blast you full volume and the mute button doesn’t work.", "Thanks Walgreens, I hate it.\n\nI'll start shopping somewhere else if this happens where I am.\n\nIf you want to advertise shit at me, put it above the freezers on that blank wall. Don't block my ability to see what's actually in the freezer.", "My state had a referendum on right to repair in the last election, with big manufacturers launching a huge and ridiculous \"vote no\" campaign. Which is how I ended up listening to a gas pump telling me how mechanics don't want access to my car's computer system.", "Just sucks because most of the Walgreens I've been in take super long to restock the items. You look like a fool opening a half empty refrigerator.", "Just close those doors a little too hard every time. Replacing screens can get expensive", "if you want 70% of customers to go through self checkout then you're gonna need to hire slower cashiers and build more self checkouts.\n\nExperienced cashiers ring roughly 2x the speed of a self checkout. And \"Experience\" means about 30 days on the job.", "I don't have a problem with the ads. I DO have a problem with not being able to see what's on the shelf without opening the damn freezer door. Whoever came up with this idea should have been laughed out of the meeting room. Which means it was probably a company VP or something.", "\"Please do 15 squats in front of the camera before retrieving your klondike bars.\"", "Ah I see. I would just browse on my phone instead. I think it's cool as a technology, but it's being used in a way that makes people's quality of life slightly worse. Those screens are there for the store to sell advertising so that products have to pay money to be seen in the screen, instead of being seen for free through glass doors.", "I first noticed this when I was buying some condoms. $12 at the grocery store, $19 at CVS. \n\nfuck outta here.", "All of them have a mute button. Typically one of the grey buttons on the side.", "You’re being a pedant disguised as a logician. I was quoting the other person. Chill, Bertrand.", "I imagine this is also a problem on the employee side. They can't just walk by and see which things need to be restocked.", "I would think the heat created from a massive TV screen would be worse than the slight thermal loss from a double pane insulated glass door.", "Oh fuck this nonsense.", "Shop somewhere else. Enough is enough.", "Jesus christ, that's dystopian as fuck.", "I will never open one of these eyesore. I will go to a different store if I need anything behind them.", "> they don’t stock them according to the picture on the front \n\nI also imagine that's hard to do since you would need to either memorize what goes where or constantly open and close the door while restocking", "This is disgusting, reminds me of cyberpunk", "Yeah, if a store would start that BS here I'm switching to a different one.", "Is there anything more infuriating than trying to be upsold by a gas pump?! Do you want a car wash? Come inside and see our deals! You can fuck right off mr pump-bitch", "Find an employee and ask them to find the thing you want. That costs them far more than the energy.", "This future is inevitable", "Except when it doesn't because it's too busy showing ads instead (like in the video), and you won't be able to tell if something is actually in stock until you open and check anyways.", "That british gecko is basically a torture device at this point", "I mean, lets put a giant monitor in front of a freezer that is open frequently allowing for wild temperature shifts over the day. No way will freezing condensation or repeated impact of slamming the door effect electrical equipment. /s", "You can still mute some of them. My friend just posted a snapchat of himself doing it by pushing the 1st, 2nd, and then 3rd (top to bottom) buttons on the right.", "Can't on phone.", "Oh absolutely. They get to hide their inventory issues behind advertisements and get paid to do it..", "If you see these, leave them all open and walk away.", ">fuck outta here\n\nI sure hope you weren't going to use them inside the CVS...", "My local Walgreens has had this for about a year now and I don't think I've ever paid attention to what was on the screen other than finding the exact product I'm looking for. I feel like these are such a waste.", "This is why you don't listen to the marketing people, there are thousands of ways they could have done better and yet they went with this.", "Probably not if it’s insulated behind that screen. That’s just a design question, though. It’s certainly possible to make a screen like this that is more ‘green’, even if this design isn’t. Glass is never going to be as good of an insulator as what could be behind a solid display.", "Saw these. The displays are warm to the touch. A refrigerator door doesn’t seem like the best place for this. Probably using a lot more power just to keep them cool.", "If I saw these, I’d make an off handed note to not buy anything from Walgreens ever again, and go somewhere else instead.", "But the app crashes often so I had to keep unplugging and plugging it back in again to get it to connect and download my data\n\nAfter that it works pretty well, you just need to sign up for their subscription service to see the data", "Because e waste isn’t a thing", "Unfortunately my argument doesn't work for that. \n\nIt would only be for billboards, sky ads, car ads, and [this fucking monstrosity](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2021/04/02/floating-billboard-atlantic-ocean-daytona-beach-volusia-county-florida/4833033001/). \n\nFor radio and television the argument would be 'you're choosing to watch content with ads'.", "It reminds me of Minority Report.", "Willing to bet a person opening a freezer door is some X percent more likely to purchase a product than someone who didn’t.", "If the doors were better insulated for having the screens, it would make the fridges more efficient (assuming the stock levels were accurate on the doors, which they almost never are) \n\nBut these things actually generate heat thanks to being big, constantly on displays, and that heat forces the fridges to work harder, and the whole building generates more heat, and needs improved cooling. \n\n\nAll around terrible products that shouldn't exist.", "Second button down on the right side of the screen. Hold it for a couple seconds to mute the ad.", "he makes art you know?", "> It saves me time and effort right?\n\nFound the corporate plant", "They still have some customers, but overall things are looking bad for chain pharmacies (ie, not grocery store)", "Yeah there's also a problem that the photos on the monitors don't tell you the size of what you're buying. You have to actually see it.", "Just put the ads somewhere else and let me see what's in the fucking freezer. I don't mind ads in a grocery store. The product packaging itself is an ad. But this one makes it inconvenient for me to shop.", "I especially hate the ads on subway turnstiles you're forced to touch.", "Now that's some hacktivism I can get behind.", "The distance the ad changes to inventory is about the same distance you would be able to even make out what is behind the foggy, often dingy window before they were installed. People are making this out to be worse than it is.", "Yes you can?\n\nAndroid has several browsers with adblock built in and you can go to YouTube through them.\n\nOr Vanced which is a 3rd party app (not on the app store) that you install that is its own youtube app, with all the features of the paid one, and then some.\n\nFor iphone I know it's not as easy but there is several options I've heard about.\n\nOr you know.. PiHole\n\nJust because you can't figure it out doesn't mean they don't exist.", "Here's a tip, at those pumps with ads, typically the second button from the top on the right side of the screen is a mute button. Works at every station in my town", "Then tell me how in a way that won't hurt my brain to make it work.", "There's a big one on the public transportation I'm riding right now, actually. Whole trolley has a big smirking gecko on it...but the tv spots are the worst part of it, no doubt", "Yes because upgrading software cost money and has no direct way of increasing profits", "Guess we'll wear our sunglasses all the time.", "“We had ads on TV, and newspapers, and ball games, and on grocery store refrigerators. But not dreams, nooo sir.”", "Have adblocker, still see ads on YouTube. My 7yo saw a fucking Cialis commercial on YouTube Kids. Seriously, fuck YouTube. \n\nI have however, in my war with YouTube, found a way to game the ad system so I don't see ads or just the survey... I wonder of there's a way to monetize that?", "Idiocracy coming true one thing at a time...", "Or PS4...", "Everyone just clicked the video to intentionally watch advertisements. \n\nWalgreens wins!", "Hello John Anderton", "At my local Walgreens I open the door and they’re out of everything that I want. Pretty cool.", "Are you on android or iphone?", "Can't wait for these to be hacked and/or go blue screen.", "If you're not getting a 5.7%+ raise you are actually making less money due to inflation.", "Android, an older Galaxy S6", "They pulled this shit on me in a gas station, I had to watch a 10 second video about how i should apply for a gas station card until I could chose what grade fuel i wanted. \nI filled up, and went in to pay. \nWhen the guy said $35.00 please, I spent 30 seconds explaining why Dunlop tyres were the choice of todays generation, and how playing just $20 dollars over the closest tyre company could save your life!!! \nI ended with a 5 second jungle. \nHe was not impressed", "Foggy dingy windows are not a problem I encounter.\n\nAnd their computer screen doesn't show me what's actually in the freezer. I can't tell if a product is out of stock or how large it actually is.\n\nAnd I have to open the door before I can find where the product is actually located on the shelf. That's more wasted time for me and more wasted electricity on cooling.", "But do you have \"AdBlock for YouTube\"? It's a separate extension, I have that combined with \"Magic Actions for YouTube\". I never see any ads", "I wouldn't call them \"ads\".. it is branding.\n\nThe item displayed is what is in that slot in the freezer.\n\n\nCalling them ads is like calling the cigarettes brand signs at gas stations ads. I'm willing to bet that those companies rent the freezer space from the store... just like how it happens in gas stations. Marlboro, Coke and Pepsi pay big money to have their brand posted like that.\n\n\nIt is the reason you will see 45 shelves if Coca cola, and one lane of Barqs.", "I would want to somehow attach one of those care windshield breakers to my knee and accidently run into these.", "https://vancedapp.com/\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ruu1_Mfem80\n\nThis is what I use, should work for your phone as well.\n\nYou'll need to enable a setting in your phone, the YouTube vid should show you exactly what is need to be done.\n\nNo ads, watch videos in the background, download videos, etc..\n\n\nOr download a browser like \"Brave\" (less work to setup)and use that for youtube, but I prefer Vanced.", "What’s the point in playing the ad?\n\nWhen no one is in front of it / watching, it plays an ad to an empty aisle. When someone steps in front / able to watch, the ad stops?", "Worth noting for whoever is reading this, you can get that Kirkland brand Zyrtec on Amazon for cheap as well, no Costco membership needed.\n\nA whole years worth of daily allergy meds for way cheaper than the cost of like a month of Zyrtec.", "And it’s exactly what the people they say they hate want them to do. They don’t care if you think advertisement is the Devil as you slam another Big Mac in your face and think you’re an antifa rebel because you held a fucking door open to let cold air out.", "Not to mention the power to run the screens in the first place.", "I will literally never enter a Walgreens again", "I pity any person still patronizing either Walgreens or CVS after they merged. They’re like dealing with T-Mobile account support-painful. The Walgreens workers are all rude and pissy because they know they’re being overworked so the service is so pathetically poor it is surreal to deal with them.", "Boycott Walgreens.", "WELL those should help the energy problems the entire world is having and what is the problem with all these companies that on one hand sponsor the Global Heating Movements and on the other do everything to make things WORSE instead of better BUT everyone else gets to pay a CARBON TAX...\n\nN. Shadows", "I work in product development in the grocery industry, and this smells like something that came from a firm or a vendor with a fancy executive sales pitch.\n\nWalgreens is getting pretty desperate and is closing a bunch of stores. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a stupid idea that came from hiring EY or McKinsey. \n\nWhen a business neglects it’s product and experience and starts to fail, they often hire an outside firm to try and right the ship. The firm does a couple workshops, but never really gets deep knowledge about how the business / customer behave. Then the firm starts throwing out Hail Mary “innovation” ideas that excite dumb execs. \n\nI’ve seen this more times than I can count. Usually the real problem js that corporate leadership is garbage and is prioritizing the wrong stuff, but firms never call that out.", "I work at CVS, and I can tell you why. We are understaffed, only 1-2 people running the main store all day. And we have a fuckton of stuff to get done that isn't checking someone out. So in order to get things done, and keep an eye on the front, we turn the volune up so we can hear the \"please wait, assistance is on the way from across the store\" Because if we don't here it, you'll be stuck at the self check out for a good 10mins before anyone notices you need help.", "This is the social media generation. We are woke enough to screech anti-ad shit on Reddit for internet clout, but we aren’t woke enough to actually realize how and why ads work. It’s all about the appearance. All about the karma and the likes for your internet persona, all while we contribute to the giant fucking machine that controls us.", "What about experienced self check out users who've been doing it for 15 years?", "I've now been involved in two different POS implementation projects. It can be a HUGE to make a POS change because the data integration and how any new system may have different specs for how they handle everything. Even something as simple as Item Codes can cause huge integration/conversion headaches.\n\nWe just switched over ours and it has taken about 2 years and thousands and thousands of person hours. We're still working out all the kinks, especially with integration to other systems and some reporting issues. I know our store staff was grumbling for years about the old system but these things take time to change.", "11 year old me would have a fun time moving everything around the freezers, just so when people open them its something completely different than what the screen shows.", "Just start opening all the cooler doors and leaving them open every time you walk past them.\n\nIf questioned tell them its your ad blocker.", "I generally never see anyone at the counter until I'm up there and they come running. That doesn't bother me, i just feel bad for the employees. \nWhat does bother me is \n#PLEASE INSERT CARD! THANK YOU!\nYour explanation makes perfect sense though. \n#THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION!", "You're so wrong lol. Keeping track of what's in stock is based on the BOH system and can be off due to overstocked items and stolen, unprocessed damaged items. These numbers can take months before someone updates that specific item. Also, have you not worked in retail? People have a meltdown because you don't give them change quickly enough. These things would piss people off to no end.", "Movie conveniently ignores the dozens of other people who would either hear John Anderson’s person ads or it’d be a complete mess of everyone being scanned and advertised to at the same time.\n\nAlso….sunglasses.", "This is a growing trend in retail spaces. Instead of investing in things that may or may not have a return, like improving the customer experience. The guaranteed way to increase revenue with almost no guarantee of a loss? Ads. It’s infuriating. The margin on ads is always double dipped: they make money from the ad itself then on the product they are selling. I feel like there is a crop of MBAs that have all realized this and are pushing ads everywhere.", "Haha np", "Laugh my ass off why does Walgreen always have that type of music plane that is literally like a Walgreens music it’s like gospel soft R&B", "self check machines are functionally slower because you have to wait for the bagging area to process the weight of your item even if you know how to scan quickly and know produce PLUs. The scanner scales at my local store also weigh things more slowly than the registers I used to run when I was a cashier. \n\nmeanwhile a regular cashier just needs to slide things across the scanner beep-beep-beep-beep-beep and toss them in bags.", "Somehow I don't think the difference between thermal pane doors and the best insulating door would be that big considering the massive losses due to people opening the doors all the time.\n\nThe medical freezers in the lab I worked in had incredible insulation. Opening the door once for 20 seconds required the freezer run for several hours to reestablish baseline operating temperature. If left closed it would run for only ~30 minutes a day.", "Fuck this.", "> POS system\n\nIt looks like this has a double meaning here …", "Don't you have an interruption when the glass is fogged up? Seems like when I grocery shop, the glass is fogged up and I have to open all the doors to see what's inside. I live in Louisiana where it's super humid so I'm sure that contributes.", "Our location uses Square for our small retail shop which is really fantastic, I have no complaints. Quick and user friendly. Granted I’ve never used an older POS so I have nothing to compare it to...", "If it makes you feel better the Walgreens pharmacy the software used is still command prompt style green text stuff for inventory management. I don't think you can even call it a software at this point it's a museum piece.", "You are art.", "Every day we stray further", "These are 24/7 stores where most of the day people aren’t opening them. This would realistically only be a problem for the busiest of stores that actually have that many people opening the doors. Power outages are also a big deal, glass doors lose cold significantly faster during power loss.", "These have been in my local walgreens for a few years now. I do exactly that. Stand there and browse with the door open.\n\nUnfortunately, the price tags are on the screen & not in the freezer, so you have to repeatedly open/close the door. To make it worse, the door is very often laid out completely different to the actual product in the freezer so you have to search for the price tag.\n\nOh and for the final cherry on top, when you hold the door open for a while, its pretty common for it to revert to a full screen ad. You generally have to wait a few seconds staring at a full screen ad before you can look at the prices.", "Imagine the extra amount of power it takes to run these when we're all trying to use less due to climate change.", "Let’s burn down city hall…", "so how are we suppose to know what's behind the door? and I prefer to see this on vending machine", "Oh, good, I was just thinking the world needs more fucking adverts.", "Again I'm seeing inconsistencies throughout comments. I have no issues on accuracy for the screens, yet you do. I saw super foggy windows regularly before they were installed, you didnt. \n\nGuess no way to make everyone happy", "I hate it.", "If they do this we should all start leaving every freezer door open. I don't want my senses assaulted and it's getting to be everywhere.", "I’d love to see a ban on public advertising if it didn’t mean fundamentally violating freedom of expression. Even if someone came up with a clean way to do so, it would probably just mean more funds being pumped into social psy-op/astroturfing campaigns.", "Sooo sick of being advertised at.", "You’re confusing store inventory and stock on a shelf, two things that don’t have to have the same solution. \n\nPeople get pissed about all sorts of things. What matters is if they buy stuff and if the ads work. There’s a lot of hubris thinking these things won’t work just because we don’t like them. Does anyone like billboards? Does anyone like commercials during shows and sports? No, but there’s a reason companies are paying millions of dollars for that shit.", "You know I don't really shop at Walgreens but I will occasionally grab something from the freezer section in passing when walk by when I'm in their store for any number of reasons but if it's just a giant wall of ads I won't even bother because I wouldn't be able to see the things inside without manually opening the door \nAnd I won't pay any mind to the ads because in this day and age we are hit with so many ads If I see an ad for something I'm exponentially less likely to want to get that product each time I see it", "One step closer to idiocracy", "Back in the day, that was the advantage of the 70% tax rate. Money corporations invested the money in their employees and capital improvement were exempted from the higher marginal tax rate. Employees were paid more instead of now where the shareholders are paid more.", "r/anticonsumption", "You are they all encompassed.", "Great now i have to open the door to see that \"X\" product is out of stock", "Jesus christ shut the fuck up man.\nLet people find Vanced on their own don't you realize that the more people that know about it the more likely it'll be discontinued?? \n\nFuckhead", "CVS did not merge with Walgreens. Locations are bought by competitors all the time. I boycott Walgreens because they are conservative Christian owned and contribute large sums of money to the now corrupt Republican organizations. Especially those that support the Stop the Steal conspiracy. Vote with your wallet.", "It’s not. They are saving a HUGE amount of energy by not having glass doors on those refrigerators. \n\nGlass is a piss poor insulator. It takes big money to run big compressors to keep all that product refrigerated 24/7/365. By properly insulating the refrigerator door, they are saving tens of thousands of dollars a year in energy. Not to mention wear and tear on the system, that will last longer, and need less service, ultimately saving more money. The cost to run those led screens is nothing. And you still get the connivence of seeing whats inside without having to open the door.", "This is gold lmfao", "Store inventory of an item, is based on stock on the shelves + overstocked items in the warehouse.", "The right thing to do would be to not have advertising at all.\n\nThe smart way to do this would be to just put the advertising above the door. Manufacturers would love to buy advertising space above the door that their products are stocked in.", "I just wonder if this will ever be a profitable addition... as a milliniel the grocery store is one of the last non-digital spaces I'm ever in. I would probably walk right by this aisle, it's a good way to discourage buying processed food I guess.", "Okay so whether it’s because the glass is fogged or because there’s an ad on it we’re both opening the door to minimize or hopefully eliminate interruption.", "I think they’re utterly pointless. Because of them, I have to actually open the refrigerator to see whether or not they have product available, as opposed to the clear ones where you could see.", "There are many ways to show stock on the shelves that doesn’t directly rely on POS and inventory data. Amazon grocery weighs stuff. Cameras exist. It’s a solvable problem if the intention is be as accurate as possible.", "They are doing this because people are starting to shoplift at an alarming rate so now those doors are locked anyway.", "Lol u mad", "You know gives the crispest 4k HD, live and accurate stock of whats on a shelf? Your eyes and a glass pane.", "These obscuring ads are probably some COVID-inspired pivot to hide the fact that stores can't keep 50% of items in stock anymore.", "Just another distraction from real problems.", "Well I mean technically that isn’t 4k, and glass can get dirty, but yes, seeing the stock is obviously the most accurate. That’s not really question though. Can it be good enough that people aren’t going to complain about it? Absolutely. As I’ve said before, I don’t think anyone would care about these screens if they were being implemented solely to be a better insulator and be more ‘green’. The stock problem is one that can be solved.", "I was thinking the same thing but actually I'm just not gonna shop there at all tbh", "They have for a couple of years and games are getting better with micro transactions. I’d argue Ubisoft has been the new EA for a while", "Hmmm... what type of frozen pizzas do they have.... oop... A giant ad for Bryers... guess I'll wait... \n\n\nThis is a really cool idea if they somehow made them indestructible.", "Grey's Anatomy has ads. That's it. Literally the only show with ads. The version of Hulu with ads for all shows is dirt cheap, and the ad free version is about the same as other streaming services. Personally, I find they have the best catalog out of all of them (I'm not sure about apple though, that's the only one I don't have access to)", "ublock origin has saved my sanity.", "Your friend isn't paying for premium then. Grey's Anatomy is the only show with ads. https://help.hulu.com/s/article/no-ads-exceptions", "I've noticed that people do a lot of couponing at those stores. They can get free things or really cheap things.", "Thank you for existing in reality. I hope some of these other people will someday.", "Maybe that's what they want. Then they can become more focused on the online sells vs having a brick and mortar store.", "Omg no that's disgusting, they are for the parking lot.", "I've seen this before in another thread months ago, someone said they have sensors in there to change the display when it's out of stock.\n\nStill, absolutely fucking pointless huh?", "Remember if you go to complain don't do it to the poor kid working cash. Get the owners contact info (not like Walgreen CEO but the franchise owners at least)", "Sounds good on paper, wish I could say the same but someone's gotta pick up my mother's medication...", ">If I see the Charmin ass wiping bears one more time I might go postal. \n\nAnd if you're going postal, think UPS. UPS has been shown to beat out competitors' pricing 86% of the time. We also guarantee that your items will arrive safely at their destination. What can Brown do for you?", "Idk I was hoping the same thing about fast-food restaurants that have an ad interrupt the menu every 10 seconds. Like bitch I'm trying order and there are people behind me let me see the fucking menu.", "This same sentiment is expressed in the series Seize the Memes by [Teenage Stepdad](https://www.instagram.com/p/CQdzSt5n1QC/).\n\n>\"You're inundated from the time you're born with commercial imagery and marketing techniques. All this cultural bullshit that they've been filling our heads with is ours to do what we want with. Copyright is fake.\"", "Would also be really fucking annoying for staff to stock shelves they can't tell are full or empty til they check right up close. Unless they all have rear access I guess.", "Vote No to Corporate Graffiti", "Damn, you mean I can't sneak out with a dozen popsicles in my ass anymore?", "You mean what's SUPPOSED to be behind it. If they haven't stocked that item or it has run out or they changed placement of an item but haven't updated the display then reality will not be in sync with the screen so you will always need to check.", "What do you figure that Walgreens sees the upvotes and likes on this shit and interprets it as a positive response?\n\nEdit: Well at least the YouTube video itself has more dislikes than likes.", "Well, I just won't ever buy anything from those freezers/fridges, even if I'm in there for a prescription and happen to be thirsty.", "I learned that you can at least mute them. Just hit the buttons on the side until you find the right one.", "Also people will open the door, not only so they don't have to look at the ads but because they want actually see what is inside the fridge and while thinking what they could buy the defreeze bit by bit those fridges", "I saw this and it put me off from buying a drink", "Fair, BUT a month or so ago there was a story on Rocket League playing on the pump and I can't lie...I stopped to watch it. I thought I was hearing things when I heard a boost pad pickup sound.", "Its probably to allow them to update the pricing on the items in the freezers without having to actually physically go into the freezers to change the tags every week when the prices of items are changing or new \"deals\" are being offered. The ads are a bonus. Besides, the items in the freezer are an advertisement of themselves, arent they? Big Boxes with pictures of enticing food?", "Fuck", "ManToots produced several counterarguments... That went unrefuted (or poorly refuted as \"they wouldn't spend money if it didn't work\", to which I could name literally a million items people have spent money on that doesn't work). If you cannot refute the counterargument but continue to argue your point as if nothing happened then you're arguing in bad faith. Laughing Ztee11 off is literally the most productive thing to do at this point.\n\nI don't go to Walgreens because I was advertised to. I go because it's simply the closest one on my normal daily commute. I literally go to the local pharmacy because it's just that... LOCAL. No amount of advertising changes that fact. And no amount of advertising makes me buy products from them. If it's convenient for me to access my medication (the purpose of a walgreens for me) then that's all that happens.", "There should be an anti-advertiser coalition of some kind where products that are advertised on videos, billboards, commercials, etc. that we come together to mutually agree to NOT buy that company's products.", "I believe these have a button to turn off the display so you can just see inside.\n\nI hate this tech but you really don't have to open the door to see inside.", "This reminds me of the last time I went to Bk and they’d cycle between halves of the menu what seemed like every couple of seconds. Took so much longer to order.", "If the door was clear, you wouldn't need to open it just to see what's in there.", "You’re just gonna sit there, reference a time 20 years ago, and then tell me it wasn’t the early 90s. Want to come piss in my toilet and bang my wife too? ^^^^\\s", "Do it, I'm interested", "Double paned glass is a wonderful insulator. Almost all of those doors are double or triple paned glass.\n\nSomehow in your mind that's a worse insulator than a screen that produces heat? Hmm... irony...", "They're getting longer too. It used to be just one 6 second ad then two 6 second ads. Now it's one 15 second ad and one 6 second ad and, more frequently now, two 15 second ads. Eventually it'll be just like watching regular TV except with an ad break every minute of a 10 minute video.", "PREACH!\n\nI was flying on American Airlines yesterday. With an hour and a quarter of flight time left, the flight attendants WOKE ME UP to tell me about their credit card and remind me that if I just buy a cup of coffee with it they'll give me a bunch of airline miles. Are you freaking serious?! I straight up asked if they had a fee I could pay to disable in-flight advertisements. I interrupted them twice to ask them if they wanted to invest in my company, or if they would like to buy some groupons from me before one particularly beleaguered flight attendant told me, \"Look sir, they make us do this.\" What a shit way to treat employees and customers...", "started? this has been around for years now.", "This is pretty desperate, I almost feel bad for Walgreens. Between mail order and drive through pharmacy and online retail I wouldn’t be surprised if they were non existent in ten years. Especially as the boomers slowly die off, they’re probably the last ones keeping Walgreens standing at this point.", "Walgreens by me dont give a solitary fuck and I live in an affluent area of southern California. This is r/boringdystopia material", "Good job dipshits. Now the electric bill is so high that you cant fucking pay your employees more and now you're gonna end up replacing these back with the old doors. You fucking chodes.", "Yes", "This bullshit has been in my local one for a while. The worst part is you have to get right up to the door for the ads to stop playing and then see what could even be inside. BUT, you have to get even close to see if there’s any in stock of the shown item. Just cause it’s on the screen doesn’t mean it’s in there.\n\n\nI fucking hate these things.", "Oh wonderful! I was just thinking about how I didn’t see enough ads.", "I hate that there's hardly ever any employees restocking amongst the isles anymore to ask where a product is. Gotta spend 20 minutes going up and down the same 3 isles trying to remember where I saw the product before.", "It’s free real estate.", "Minority Report is here people!!", "Former Walgreens Senior Pharmacy Technician, the pharmacy service is atrocious. Not because of the people but the constant cutting of employees hours. Most pharmacies in my area are understaffed while servicing a large population. Corporate is constantly cutting hours and will not guarantee 40 hours.", "The screen isn’t facing the refrigerated goods. Double pane glass is never going to be as good of an insulator as actual insulations like polyurethane, and something like that is behind those screens or at least could and should be. You really think it’s just a fucking TV on there and that’s the only insulation? Can any of you think critically for like 5 seconds?", "Are the items advertised on the screen what's inside each freezer? \n\nBecause that's pretty much what glass displayed before turning them into electronic screens.\n\nIf those aren't displaying exactly what's inside and just general advertisements, then all it will do is piss people off and reduce sales.", "But it's not the screen or even the ads that are the problem, it's the location of them. Can't be a dumber place in the store for them then right in front of the actual thing you are selling. These should be just like the bulletin board display where they post the weekly newspaper add, just in a digital form for easy updating.", "You tube Vanced. Trust me.", "Gotta make up for all the stoles items", "They all have that double meaning, in my experience.", "Just wait until ads require you to watch them to proceed, not just require you to press play and use bandwidth you pay for, but they actively moniter you to make sure you are watching them or they will deactivate until you actively watch them.", "The fullscreen adds are real r/assholedesign. So we’re supposed to wait for the add to be over before we can see what’s in? Pull the freezers open to look for your products, they’ll learn fast enough. (Probably not, assholes)", "Yeah feels like a waste of money they could have used to pay their employees more", "They got some really small torch lighters these days, would be a shame if people burned stuff into them...", "Open Here! Sad disappointments inside!", "So now you actually have to open the door to see if the product you want is available. This seems bad.", "while I can see your point in the value of the things you wish to improve, clearly there are some in your organization that disagree. Why should corporate give a shit about you? they never have and never will, they will replace you with a self-checkout the second they get a chance to do so. That's just the awful reality of modern capitalism I guess and we are all at fault for allowing it. We call vote with our wallets and no one will blink an eye at this shit or stop going there.", "Hack it and give the control to 4chan for the ultimate troll.", "shitty or not, a POS system that works for decades and costs company very little is a huge win, they are not in business to make your life easy at the register, if it's not seriously impacting the bottom line with extended outages or something of the sort (and let's be honest, it wasn't) why should they upgrade?", "it would be, do you shop there? do you do your own research to find out the stores that do treat people better that deserve your dollar? I doubt it, 99% of us just wish for better things to come, they never will.", "I watched hulu when it was free after watching one ad. When they moved to multiple ads, I just quit.\n\nI watched TV with ads before streaming services. I stopped watching TV with ads and I hate them with a passion now. I don’t need that garbage streaming in my brain all the time. Being brainwashed into consuming isn’t what life is about and I refuse.\n\nI am used to a State where billboards aren't allowed. They look atrocious to me.", "1) They're on every other street around here so I can't be bothered to go all the way to an actual grocery store sometimes if I just need a couple items.\n\n2) The price difference isn't that huge depending on where you are and what you buy; milk at CVS is actually cheaper than at the grocery store where I live.\n\n3) They're open 24/7 which is huge. If I've got people over and we run out of chips at 10 PM, I don't have many other places I can go.\n\nAll in all, sure $4 vs $3 for something is a 25% markup but as a one-off purchase I don't really care so much about that extra dollar since it's likely at the benefit of a great deal of convenience.", "I want to smash those so much.", "Advertising is a tumor", "This is a massively stupid thing", "Shut the fuck up. Boot licker. All retail is the same shit except Costco.", "I have the same problem with this that I do with some McDonalds drive through screens - You have to sit and wait for the friggin screens to cycle before you see what you wanted.", "On top of that glass is defrosted by blasting it with hot air.", "Those doors create heat, which requires more energy to cool. Here in Chicago Ive been exposed to them for a few months already. I have to open the doors of every one to actually see what is inside, further increasing energy consumption. I hate them.", "That makes sense, but they still have some kinks to work out. Like the other day I went to grab a microwave meal and I spent a few minutes scanning over the screen to decide what I wanted only to open the door and find it was out of stock. If they could just link the screen's info with the current inventory it would be great.", "Yes. God I hate capitalism.", "I think they're targeted. You can already focus sound directly to a single person with a very narrow beam. It is sci-fi, after all.", "Especially because the screens aren't actually accurate to the stock level of the product behind them.", "More like in 3-4 yrs. LOL It's like a Philip K. Dick novel/Robo Cop movie.", "Ours close at 10 pm and there are several of them but there’s usually a dollar store somewhere just around there. On sunscreen, it was $12 for a bottle at Walgreens ant $5 at the dollar store and their prescriptions are more expensive too. I guess I’m just not rich enough for Walgreens ha", "This ice cream is brought to you by Raid: Shadow Legends!", "I still think the scariest thing I've ever seen is the episode of Black Mirror when the dude's apartment walls were all screens and they had to pay not to watch ads.", "There's out of network shows that end up getting ads, Greys Anatomy is just the only one they have in -their- catalogue. IE: Anything that has their new episodes added to Hulu a day or two after official release, probably has ads. \n\n\nThere used to be more, but I think they moved (most) of that service into the much more expensive Live TV option. I believe they were a part of their cheaper plans before, though.", "Massive fail for me. If I don’t see what I want, I keep on walking. After opening a couple of doors & seeing either no stock or the leftovers all squashed etc I’d quickly just give up.\nWould have thought this would just use more power for the display, as well as to cool the freezer more to offset the heat from the display.", "Obey.\n\nMarry and Reproduce.\n\nNo Independent Thought.\n\nConsume.", "This doesn't seem like a very wise investment at all", "Don't go telling them that life revolves around more than advertising. He was clearly too simple brained and kept wanting to repeat the same thing over and over without accepting that most things in life happen because they are convenient.", "Frozen goods \| Pane of glass \| Vaccuum \| Pane of glass \| Open world\n\nVs\n\nFrozen goods \| insulation \| Heat source \| open world... \n\nCan you think critically for like 5 seconds? Putting a literal heat source directly next to the items you want to be frozen is stupid period. You specifically WANT to separate heat sources from cold items, not have them next to each other regardless of insulation that may exist\n\nBy the way, \n\n>Double-pane windows have an R-value ranging from 3 to 3.8 , while triple-paned windows have an R-value of up to 7- 8\n\nVs\n\n>There are two types of polystyrene rigid foam insulation:\n\n>Expanded polystyrene (EPS): With an R-value of 3.6 to 4.2 per inch, EPS is an effective way to insulate a home. It’s the less expensive option of the two and is most appropriate for above-grade applications.\nExtruded polystyrene (XPS): An impressive R-value of 5 per inch, combined with high compressive strength and water resistance, makes XPS the perfect insulation for below-grade slabs and foundation walls.\n\n\nSo can you shut the hell up about the glass not being a good insulator now?", "way to justify your inability to stand up for what you claim to believe in.", "Sorry, I was being flippant in telling you what you wrote is absolute nonsense. Quit making excuses for invasive behavior. Particularly when those excuses are total bullshit.", "R values add together. You can’t combine glass with anything else. Triple plane glass is a good insulator as far as glass concerned, but it isn’t as good as what something that is solid can be.", "I bet the next boss up the chain was ripshit when the unemployment checks started.", "If you watch streaming services exclusively on your PC, sure.\n\n...maybe I should build a media PC for the living room TV.", ">Yes, you go because it is the closest one. Completely natural, and something these stores are very aware of. Brand loyalty to grocery stores doesn't really exist the same way it does for other products, because at the end of the day they all sell almost the same thing at almost the same price\n\nThen why are you defending the bunk that this other person is spewing?\n\n>Did you buy that coke because you saw that giant isle of dripping cold cokes\n\nI drink water nearly exclusively... So no. I didn't buy the coke. Nor do I ever want coke. And even further I drink filtered tap water from my fridge. I buy the filters from the OEM because I couldn't be arsed to figure out a cheaper alternative. And the bottle I use to tote water with me is a camelback because I was issued their equipment in the military and appreciate the quality of their product. The fridge I bought... I ran away from the last manufacturer because the fridge was trash (was here when I bought the house) and purchased based on my needs and repairability evaluating ALL the brands that were available in stock and available to ship to both Home Depot and Lowe's in my area as there's no other stores available within an exit of my home. Where did advertisement get me?\n\n>You're attacking a straw man in his argument, moving goal posts and arguing against things that was never said.\n\nNo I'm not and no I didn't. They presumed that everything I do is heavily influenced by advertisement including (but not limited to) my selection of store. All I had to do was prove one thing wrong to validate that assertion completely garbage. Which I did.\n\nThey make obviously dumb claims like \"Advertisement is why people buy the most cost effective items on the menu\"\n\nExcept there's another reason why people would buy the \"most cost effective items\"... Because they're fucking cost effective.", "How about we not let these companies exploit people instead of putting on the people who sometimes have no choice on where they shop.", "Or mullion heaters.", "How do you see through fogged up glass?", "Yes I’ve seen this be a problem already. They are far from perfect. And people hate change. But this is a step in the right direction for sure. \n\nNow we just have to get rid of those damn open case coolers.", "Have you tried apps like AdGuard which does DNS level blocking on mobile devices? If you know how to build a PC then try building a PiHole and route the DNS through there.", "I get off work at midnight, and an ad played on every pump, slightly off sync, that was someone screaming this blood-curdling scream. Scared the ever-loving shit out of me.", "How do you see through a solid panel? How do you identify that the stuff in the fridge matches the stuff on the screen? How do you figure out that it's actually in stock vs the screen just claiming it is?\n\nYou act like glass is fogged 100% of the time. Stop basing your decisions on something that happens <1% of the time. Glass works fine, and even when fogged up you can likely make out if the product you're looking for is in stock.\n\nAlso you're making more of a case for companies to clean the glass with rain-x or something like that rather than replace it with a shitty screen.", "Thanks for the tips, I'll look into them.", "I think this looks pretty cool", "The heat created by those LED screens is small peanuts compared to the heat loss from glass. However, you make a great point about the amount of time the doors are open. Big pain in the ass when the screen doesn’t match the product inside. They have some kinks to work out for sure", "At least with gas pumps you can sometimes find the unlabeled mute button.", "Though Walgreens started to sell NFT’s 🥸", "Nothing a little oil generated electricity can't solve.", ">Because that's not what he is even saying, and completely irrelevant to anything, so just stop talking about that because neither me nor him has stated anything even slightly similar. Waste of time. \n\nso you're not saying that everyone's decision on what to do is based around advertising? You realized that I've effectively been quoting them?\n\n>If you go to Walgreens you are being advertised to and are 100% making decisions on that advertising whether you think you are or not.\n\n\nor\n>if you are ‘100% immune to ads’ you aren’t going to Walgreens \n\nWhich is EXACTLY what I had referenced earlier. But no!!! STRAWMAN!!!!! If your only argument is \"strawman\" then you've failed to address anything that's been brought up and you're right... this conversation isn't worth carrying on.", "well they have to cover the losses from being robbed so much. \n\nI can't say who's robbing them cause i'll get accused of racism.", "That is Walgreens official logo at this point.", "Who in the board room said this is a bad idea???", "I have these at a local Walgreens and haven't had any issue but they seem to work the opposite way everyone is describing. The ads flick off and show you what's inside as you approach a door.", "Massive yikes. Just another swing of the hammer in their own coffin. Why would my e-shopper care about ads when they're just buying things from my online shopping list?", "I'm sorry you continue to not comprehend the simple comment I said. Perhaps seeking help?", "Great, now I know to actively avoid Walgreens at all costs. I'll go out of my way to go to a CVS or another Pharmacy if it means avoid this dystopian bullshit.", "If you push one of the buttons by the gas station video screen it mutes the video.", "What? Usually those doors have two glass panes with a vacuum in between which is a great insulator. I don't think I've ever seen a freezer with a single pane glass door.", "Idiocracy, here we come!", "Push the button 2nd down on the right side of the screen. Usually mutes the sound", "In the video you can pretty clearly see the ad playing on a screen that the camera isn't in front of. So, in theory, I'm walking down an aisle and I can see the ads playing in front of me. As I pass in front of a display I see the contents of the freezer.\n\nOf course, that's dumb because -- as others here have noted -- I have no way to tell what's sold out in there and I really don't want to have to open each one in order to find that out.", "It's about demographic targeting. If you really want to see that shit at work, check out broadcast TV. It's all ads for cell phones for the elderly, emergency alert necklaces, and reverse mortgages for your house. \n\nI'm sure the advertisers know exactly what demographics watch Hulu, have money, and won't spring for the ad-free version and they're pitching their ads to that demographic.", "They have to make money from all the stores they're closing.", "If i ever see any of these anywhere i'm opening every door and leaving them open. That's the pettiest 1 to 1 level of annoying bullshit i can think of to fight it.", "The Walgreens by me has had them for at least 3 years now. \n\nI don’t think they’re going anyway. The ad revenue > operating costs.", "High five if you have ever sex in or around the dumlster of a walmart", "that's not how our system works, do you wish for world peace as well at night? it's a pointless endeavor, simply do what YOU CAN by not shopping there. There is always a choice. If even 10% of reddit stopped hoping for fucking miracles in these echo chambers there could be actual change, it's never going to change on its own.", "Well that's some bullshit.", "Literally nothing you've said changes the fact that when you open doors you can't see through, things will, most certainly, not always be where the door says they will be, either because idiot workers stock them wrong (I honestly can't believe you've never encountered an item being in the wrong spot, but I guarantee you will when you CAN'T SEE IT until you open a door that shows where it should be) or because they're sold out or because customers are dumb and knock things over because you have to touch 20 items to grab one thing.\n\nLiterally nobody's saying they're going to strew frozen items throughout the store willy nilly. But when you open a pizza door and the pizza boxes are all sideways, upside down, and in the wrong spot, they sure are going to be wasting energy compared to if you could see the shit show before you opened the door.\n\nLike, if you don't believe that will happen in the world, I would love to live in your utopia where people make sure to zone up after they shop each item.", "And they still want 11.50 for a three day old sandwich", "Consume products", "And Gaia squits out another single tear", "r/assholedesign for SO many reasons", "Woah why does that allow me to comment in an 8 year old post?", "It made Facebook a trillion dollar market cap company, so the strategy can't be all bad.", "The minute you step in front of the door the digital display shows you everything inside. There is no need to open the door to see.", "Gas (petrol) stations in the US have had those screens for a while in the US at the pump. For probably ten years. I guess those ads are doing something because otherwise, why would they continue showing them? I avoid the gas stations that have those annoying nuisances. I don't watch US commercial TV because of the advertisement garbage. For that reason I don't have a TV. I have a long list of products that I will never buy because of their invasive advertising. Fuck them. We have Internet now. I pay with my own money for advertisement-free content I want and have a Chrome extension that allows me to block sites that will ask me to turn off my AdBlock or to sign in. Some organizations are slow to catch up with the times or slow to die.", "At first I thought these doors were designed to \"nudge\" consumers to look inside to find out what is available. My guess was some random market research said customers are x% more likely to make a purchase if they open the door, so obscuring the contents would be a \"nudge\" factor to boost conversion (% of visitors who ultimately make a purchase).\n\nThen, I saw [a related video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_pKkZrkz1U&t=132s) where they had some shopper feedback where people explained that the doors had sensors (cameras?) that are supposed to dynamically sense the internal contents and display the contents accordingly. It's also supposed to watch shoppers and dynamically serve ads based on the perceived demographic of the shopper. Now I don't know what the point is again, other than to take up some amount of space to serve ads, in which case obscuring the ENTIRE fridge door seems unnecessary. \n\nI'm glad that screen technology has gotten so cheap that we can build idiotic fridge displays like this. Some day, I hope that there are many more screens in my own home that display useful information (and not just more ads). I truly believe there is a good idea buried in here, but thus implementation is gaudy and obnoxious as fuck.", "I fucking hate this.", "I just make sure to never buy the shit they're trying to sell me. Fuck you postmastes, I'm never using you.", "And this is the reason why I never got Hulu. At least with HBO and netflix, there are no ads.", "Big waste of energy causing even more wasted energy. I sincerely hope this is not in a coal powered region.", "Must be annoying to see the ad for braised beef then walking over for it to find its just full of ice", "The town I'm in has a CVS across the street from a Walgreens. So luckily I have another option. I understand where you're coming from though.", "> You can’t quit because I’m firing you\n\nCould have been doing you a solid, in other jobs you get severance if they fire you, versus you quitting. However, knowing how scummy big retailers are, they probably only hired you PT.", "Mine got new ones after they got these stupid doors so maybe they’re coming around.", "I really think this would drive me away from ever shopping there. It's so obnoxious.", "The Billboard Liberation Front, Culture Jammers and Ad Busters have been fighting that fight since the 70s. Really interesting groups if you’re looking to read more into it. \n\nNot sure if they’re still around or whatever but but back in the late 90s and early 2000 they were causing quite a stir. \n\nhttp://www.billboardliberation.com", "Everyone should just accidentally push their carts into them", "There's chrome extensions that will block or fast forward the ads on hulu", "Pretty common joke in food service and retail spaces.", "In off-hours, we can set fuel pumps to 25% flow rate for 400% ad revenue 🙃", "The solution is to damage every screen you can, hypothetically", ">Hmm, you skipped that last part! Funny how that conveniently would make your comment baseless.\n\nSo just because advertising exists that now nullifies all self-consciousness? You can't exist in a space that has ads and make decisions on your own merits? So while I was in home depot looking at fridges the fact that samsung was advertising influence my decision to buy an LG online? Your premise is absurd. \n\n>but you've pulled 4 lines out of 100 to base your counter arguments on (see: strawman arguments). \n\nJust like you just did :) As evidenced above, because I did address it. You didn't read.\n\nJust like you straw-manned \"Not everyone spends hours on every decision\". Neither did I. I spent hours on one decision, buying the fridge... The water came after.\n\n>Look, at the end of the day advertising works.\n\nDebatable. I've seen studies that show that advertising funding does not ROI in a sizeable amount of cases.", "the doors are self closing", "> When things go out of stock does it disappear from the door? No. It doesn't.\n\nare you assuming?", "I live in the south and especially in the summer the heat and humidity make freezer doors in the grocery store completely condensated to the point that you can't actually see the products inside that well without holding them open just to browse. Which wastes a lot of energy.\n\nI get people think this kind of thing is stupid but there is an actual application for it.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nPeople are saying \"well you still have to open it to see if the thing you want is actually in stock or not\", yeah, but that's no different from opening it to grab the thing in the first place. You're not holding it open forever just to browse. You open it and the thing is either there or it isn't. If it is you grab it and close the door again. If it isn't, you close the door again. Either way it's the same thing.", "r/aboringdystopia", "If it makes the food cheaper, then I'm all for it.", "Good job. Now I'm going to open every single door looking for my chicken tendies.", "fucking hilarious how the positive anecdotal evidence gets downvoted and the negative anecdotal evidence gets upvoted.", "We need to stop considering corporations as humans that have a right to freedom of expression.", "Block the joints with frozen products", "The time to fight back against ads is now my brothers and sisters! Throw your bodies upon the wheels and the levers and make the machine stop! Call your state rep and senator's office and demand legislation limiting ads!", "Wait, which part is the quote?", "I know I will.", "Goddamn I hope so.", "Just like Facebook.", "The people who designed these will be sent to the circle that's reserved mainly for lawyers and pedophiles.", "Some areas only have the one store for many many miles...", "You're not violating the rights of the corporation, per se, you're violating the rights of the people within them. Who is to say I, the CEO of Prolefeed Inc., can't purchase property and advertise my business on it?", "People who work in marketing are fucking sinister.", "Yeah especially after I keep propping them open.", "This has been going on since at least late 2018", "I've been to a few gas stations that looked exactly like that one, but none of them had ads. I didn't know this was a thing.", "Ppl just wanna be mad ig lol", "You'd think installing an add at the top or something would make way more sense than what they did. Probably would be more effective, too.", "Just open every single door and let that shit melt", "You need some breyers cookies and cream, John Anderton.", ">Thank you for reminding me \n\nERROR. Memory contains unlicensed copyrighted materials. The Microsoft copyright license package for 2021 has been added to your card. Please drink verification can to confirm.", "ERROR UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE WORD \"MICROSOFT\" DETECTED.\n\nFor use of the word, xbox has charged your card.\n\nGet Bent, \n\nBill Gates.", "Do you have data on this? Insulated glass has been around for over 100 years. It’s not single pane.", "It only disappears of the stock management system shows the item at 0 stock... which will only ever be accurate just after an inventory/reconciliation. So virtually never.", "I've never wanted to smash a bunch of screens more in my life", "Wow only the most tired joke of all time", "I had to help set up a small process to streamline POS at my last year. It was difficult getting used to saying or emails \"POS\" every time I had reference the project. I still giggle like an idiot to this day when I do it.", "But aren't you doing the same thing by saying \"that's just the system bro, can't do anything about it.\" Why not make a systemic change.", "Form eliminates function.\n\nEveryone hated that.", "Looks like the company that makes these dumb things was co-founded and chaired by the former president and CEO of walgreens.", "A much better idea would have been augmented reality. Leave the glass there, but have semi-transparent text/images over the glass. You could still put effects and 'ads' on the glass without making it completely impossible to see inside.", "thats way more effort than all but a few people are willing to commit to.", "boycott time", "I saw these for the first time this weekend...I sorted it out fast but one guy kept opening ALL the doors because the pictures didn't make any sense to him.", "Or shove play-doh in the speakers. Dealers choice really", "You can be accused just by suggesting that it's a racial thing, you goddamn racist.", "I'm already at the store, my guy.", "Another option is NewPipe via https://newpipe.net or you can get it on [F-Droid](https://f-droid.org).\n\nEither option should be fairly straight forward. Primary reason to use F-Droid would be updates/update notifications.", "What's the point in billboards?\n\nEverybody drives right past them!", "I tried to watch this video, but I was greeted with an ad. Upon realizing I was watching an ad to watch a video about ads, I was grossed out, and noped out.", "I never said I don't try to make a difference. There you go with dreaming again... why not just have a world peace? why can't we all get along?", "I'm in marketing, we get paid to think this way.", "***With a fat disclaimer that you might be buying from a drop shipper. I used to buy Kirkland brand AllerClear on Amazon for like $15. It costs $10 on the Costco site with a Costco membership. It showed up at my house as shipped directly from Costco, so the seller was just drop shipping and pocketing $5 per order.", "Thank god global warming is over.", "Maybe it's part of their transition into preferring online shoppers? Still an awful execution.", "Came to the comments to link to this.", "I work in retail merchandising. Walgreens is most likely testing these in a select amount of stores and will\nBe monitoring performance. My theory is that these will most likely not preform well because the ads are quite literally in your face - shoppers want to see products visually. Not have a curtain or ads hiding them. Fingers crossed these don’t perform and we don’t end up seeing too many of these.", "All the same to me if I don't have a Costco membership I suppose", "The only people who \"shop\" at one of those places would 100% love this", "I honestly can't comprehend how Walgreens or CVS stay in business.", "Sponsors being willing to spend money on ads means we pay less for things, and a lot of the web is cost-free to us powered by this. Like reddit. So if this gets Walgreens some money so they can hire employees without raising prices, I'm good. The ad model won't last forever", "Welcome to capitalism.", "I was in South Beach Miami last month and saw this. I took pictures and sent to my wife to show her the drinks for her to choose one. It took five drinks before she picked one that was actually behind the door. It’s absolute bullshit.", "That's one of the arguments I've seen for graffiti/street art.", "Getting fired can also be better for unemployment insurance stuff.", "really tacky", "Welp not shopping there..lol", "These doors don’t show when something is out of stock either. I’ve opened the door to grab something on the screen only to realize it’s not really there. \n\nThey’ve spent a lot of money to make a worse window", "Even worse. They have cameras in them that film your eye movements, see what you're looking at. (Except in Illinois, as there's a biometric law there.) https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/2/7/18215629/walgreens-cooler-screens-frozen-food-eye-tracking-ads", "Oh god", "I've got 10 cooling compressors and 5 RTU's and my power bill is $4k per month. It's not inconsequential...", "I personally prefer stores that let you buy stuff with your phone. Scan with your phone, buy, and out the door. If Walgreens did that, I might actually use it.", "Suggest your boss to use Onyx transparent glass panel https://youtu.be/9Ug38gwGyNY", "There's cooler using transparent glass panel https://youtu.be/9Ug38gwGyNY", "Install Literal Sledgehammer, the newest ad blocking service!", "[Reality is closer than you think.](https://i.imgur.com/Tioce9S.jpg)", "Companies spend money to be featured in print ads, TV ads and to be placed in specific spots on the shelf. This is not a massive revenue increase in ads.", "Usually when I figure something out everyone else has known for years I keep that to myself.", "There is only so much advertising a human can endure", "> Imagine a world without billboards\n\nI live off of I-280 in the SF Bay Area. No billboards at all and a gorgeous freeway. It’s bliss and I appreciate every moment (relatively speaking, it’s still a highway after all).", "100% guaranteed those sensors above the TVs are monitoring user interaction (“engagement”) along with numerous other metrics such as how long the user stood there, when they stood there, if they opened, what product was purchased and _may_ even get correlated to the actual “anonymized” (unlikely) individual.", "Actually, [I wrote this](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qf9usm/walgreens_has_started_installing_video_freezer/hi37v7h/) before I even read your comment. I sort of figured this was probably _core_ to why they did this and not just to advertise per se. The data is so valuable.", "If I were walking in as a customer and I saw this, I’d be pretty frustrated with it and walk right out on principle (but that’s me, I’m pretty irritable with it comes to companies foisting advertisements on me when I’d rather just pay a reasonable price for a better experience). Hopefully others would do the same and maybe even write the company to express their discontent with it as well.\n\nI work with digital signage a bit as well, but nothing like this. I’m also big on building user-friendly UI/UX and this is VERY much an anti-pattern in my book.", "Aw geese going to the store was scary already", "They’re pissed they still have to have any human checkers at all. Like they hate that you guys even exist. They want to to be out of a job and go fuck yourself.\n\nToo bad all the checkers in the country couldn’t walk out on the same day and let corporate eat shit.", "And in programming and support for POS.", "> Go do the math on an entire air exchange of 20 cubic feet, it's absurdly low.\n\n-gives anecdote about an entirely different situation\n\nGood talk.", "I'm surprised at the lack of Silicon Valley references on here!\n\nThis a-warm.... this a-warm... this a-warm", "> 20 years ago and the POS system was incredibly outdated, buggy and just overall a pain in the ass to use.\n\nFormer POS support guy for a major retailer here, I was the guy you'd get when you called the helpdesk and they couldn't solve your problem.\n\nStep back for a second and think about just what a POS system for a national retailer is actually doing. In my case it was millions of transactions a day over close to 1,000 locations in every US state and province. Do you realize that there are variations down to the municipality level that have to be accounted for. Sales tax rates are different from COUNTY TO COUNTY in some places, all that has to be accounted for.\n\nRemember the plastic bag tax? Yeah, I was on the team that got to roll out the new pricing files to a specific list of stores that would add the tax into every transaction.\n\nOn top of all that, the data then has to be sent back to the HQ where things like credit card processing happen. That is a whole different set of regulations that you have to comply with and are audited on regularly.\n\nI think God every day that I don't do that kind of work any more but just remember all the spinning plates involved with keeping a national scale POS system up and running.", "Show me the Walgreens with a single 20 cubic foot cooler. It’s literally the exact same situation as I’m running similar equipment.\n\nGood Talk", "Do the door ads show what's inside? What if you are looking for something that didn't pay extra to be advertised on the door? You just go around opening all the doors searching??", "I'll just leave. I'll go a block over where I can see and find what i'm looking for.", "It's like. I'm already here, ready to order food, you don't need to advertise to me.", "> Show me the Walgreens with a single 20 cubic foot cooler.\n\n20 cubic feet is a gross overestimation of the air exchange that would occur with 60 seconds of holding a cooler door open. \n\nAvoiding the question because you either don't know the answer or know the answer is exactly as I said wont make you right.", "It's a good thing that there is just the one cooler only being opened one time!\n\nGood Talk!\n\nSpoiler Alert\n\n(The effects are cumulative.)", "> It's a good thing that there is just the one cooler only being opened one time!\n\nYes move the goal posts \"good talk\"", "The goal posts were loss due to opening the doors on the coolers. The goal posts remain unchanged.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nKeep losing \n\n\nGood Talk!", "Either you're too stupid to realize ad revenue is based on traffic which correlates to door openings, or you just want to pretend you didn't move the goal posts by feigning ignorance. Either way you're an idiot.", "Or I operate many of these cooling units and have an actual working knowledge of their operational costs and you’re a plebe feigning an informed opinion.\n\nGood talk", "Stores already seem to have a hard time updating the price tags. I can't imagine them updating pics of products in a timely manner", "It's not really a trend. Ads have been a massive part of retail for decades. Aisle end caps, where products are stored on shelves - all of those spots are paid for. \n\nGrocery and drugs stores only make a small amount of revenue on every sale, so they partner with CPGs (Consumer Product Goods companies) to monetize every shelve in the store. \n\nSadly, this is just the next iteration of what has been happening for decades. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nSource: work in grocery", "To be fair, Walgreens is closing stores left and right. They seem to be doing stupid desperate stuff to try to stay afloat.", "> Or I operate many of these cooling units and have an actual working knowledge of their operational costs\n\nRunning costs an costs for an air exchange are two different things.\n\n>and you’re a plebe feigning an informed opinion.\n\nSo... can you simply not do the calculation? Are you too stupid? It's a really* easy calculation to do. 20 cubic feet, 75 degree drop, from room temp to freezer temp. Come on, you only have to look up only two things and then it's just a little simple math. It would be so easy to make me look dumb... \n\nOh, except once you actually do it you'll realize how stupid you are instead.", "Don't need to make you look dumb man! You are doing a fine job on your own.", "So you can't do it. That's unfortunate, I guess I'll do my good deed for the day and help the mentally handicapped. \n\nIt's $0.000017 for a 20CF exchange.\n\nIf only someone had told you from the start you were overestimating the cost. \n\nIdiot.", "Keep digging that hole.\n\nGood talk", "Haha, yea, you got nothing now and you know it.", "For an uninformed Reddit troll, I don’t think so", "Is that how you deal with your ignorance being exposed? Project?", "When I see someone post a number specific down to six significant digits without knowing the kWh cost, the operating amps or voltage...\n\nYour .000017 doesn't even cover the inrush current on 10 amps @ 240v let alone the compressor run time @ running current.\n\nKeep digging that hole.", "welcome to 2021 where your life will soon be an ad. On YouTube you already have to pay to Not be distracted.", ">specific down to six significant digits\n\nLMAO there's 2 significant digits you idiot, go back to middle school math please. leading zeros are not significant. \n\nI'm starting to understand why you couldn't do the math and clearly have no idea what drives the energy cost of a refrigeration unit. \n\n> the operating amps or voltage... \n\nHaha, it's hilarious you think this is a relevant variable to determining the cost of an air exchange. \n\n>knowing the kWh\n\nUsing the nationwide average was sufficient. \n\n>Keep digging that hole.\n\nKeep projecting and exposing your ignorance in all its glory.", "> Your .000017 doesn't even cover the inrush current on 10 amps @ 240v let alone the compressor run time @ running current.\n\nLMAO you idiot, that inrush current is 0.00000086 cents at the national average using a typical 100ms period. You can't be any dumber adding an edit like that. Do you even understand how power costs are calculated or the difference between power and work? \n\nThis is amazing, talk so much shit but not even the slightest understanding of anything.\n\nGod damn this is hilarious.", "I know, I'm laughing my ass off at you.", ">I know\n\nSure kid.", "lol", "I go to a \"mom and pop\" type of pharmacy I found, a real treasure to find in Orange county CA. They don't have the hours of the pharmacy chains but I don't care... I refuse to go anywhere else. The lead pharmacist/owner left CVS (I think it was CVS) bc of the corporate culture and lack of customer care to open his own place. He actually cares about all of his customers, remembers all the regulars names and probably many others. \n\nI grew up in small towns where there was that level of familiarity exists and finding a place like that in SoCal helped warm up the area a little for me. 😊", "I'm so glad that other people are pissed about this. I walked out of a walgreens the other day because I was so disgusted that they took away the GLASS that let me SEE THE FUCKIN DRINKS and showed me and ad for MICHELOB FUCKING ULTRA, which for the uninformed is just carbonated piss in a bottle.", "What stage of capitalism is thisssssss", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UlapnsFLhc", "A bit annoying considering customers like opening freezer doors and scanning the items in it!", "i know people have said get adblock... but since you also have premium, get sponserbock. it completely skips those parts" ]	889	videos	Walgreens has started installing video freezer screens so they can sell ads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSsQyIccWm8	/r/videos/comments/qfasef/tpain_reacts_to_aussie_hip_hop_on_stream_man_we/	[ "T-Pain seems like a dope dude. We'd be more than happy to have you here bruvvaaaa!", "Isn't T Pain the guy who came up with the uber popular McDonald's jingle but didn't own any rights to it", "This doesn't sound like Aussie hip hop at all... \n\nHere's some actual [Aussie Hip Hop](https://youtu.be/i3X38hhr4a4)", "I liked this one a lot more, thanks", "Wow that’s a throw back.", "Yeah man, a 12 year old song is what hip hop sounds like in 2021 lmao.", "[No, that was Pusha T.](https://www.okayplayer.com/music/pusha-t-im-lovin-it-jingle-no-rights.html).", "I didnt say its hip hop. It's Aussie hip hop. \n\nI dont think Aussie hip hop has changed its sound to whatever it is in ops video but correct me if I'm wrong", "Great Gladys Knight sample, also used in “Yesterday” by Atmosphere", "I wouldn't think Aussie HH has changed either if I was stuck listening to music from 11 years ago.\n\nTriple One?\nA.Girl?\nWombat?\nChillinIt?\nT Keith?\nMasked Wolf?", "Got anything more recent? \nI was jokingly expecting nosebleed section and this is almost as old.", "According to Pusha T.\n\nWikipedia reckons the writers of the [Justin Timberlake song the jingle came from](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_Lovin'_It_\$song\$) are Pharrell Williams, Tom Batoy, Franco Tortora & Andreas Forberger.\n\nPusha T was involved in writing some lyrics for a campaign based on the jingle around the same time, but from what I've read the Timberlake song came out first.\n\nThis video goes into it more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKJHCxirgxw", "Sounds like every other white dude rapping to some shitty piano track.", "The best is S.mouse", "Slap my el slap my bow", "That song was fire. Looking this dude up.", "Honestly that video is kinda terrible, this one does a much better job explaining it. \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GApPXZAvkRI", "Bit of Spit Syndicate as well\nhttps://youtu.be/uETYU7i5d9k", "What’s so special about this? Just sounds like a typical run of the mill hiphop.", "A man of true culture right here", "This will sound super wanky I know, but to me Aussie HH has always been more of a genre than simply who is performing. Most of the acts you've mentioned are all super talented but perform a very US or even UK style of hip hop rather than what I think of when I think Aussie HH. \n\nHilltop Hoods are obvious I know, but they really typify the style. Bliss N Eso, 360, Illy, Drapht etc are all along these lines as well.", "Atmosphere beat", "T-Pain is actually pretty good career in the US." ]	23	videos	T-Pain reacts to Aussie Hip Hop on Stream "man, we gotta go to Australia"
https://youtu.be/ecQkZ_xIQJQ	/r/videos/comments/qfb2fq/before_family_guy_you_had_this_anybody_remember/	[ "I hope this is on Netflix.\n\nAlso, why does the family resemble the Scooby Doo gang?", "Also the \"What father doesn't know, won't hurt him...\" part of the intro is so dark. Like she goes out on a date and comes back beat up... In the intro... Like what?", "Because 1972. That son is stoned the whole show.", "I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. For some reason I was also reminded of Scooby Doo.", "Loved this show. Used to be on Cartoon Network late night in the 90s.", "What about larry & steve? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caR_5BgEgv8", "That's how I came across it.", "Well zoinks, that co-could be for like a bunch of reasons, right?", "I don't think she's beat up, just her hair and clothes are disheveled. The implication is probably that she was out having sex.", "Title- Wait 'til Your Father Gets Home", "I remember this from old school Cartoon Network!", "yeah she just had a wild night is all", "[F Is for Family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_Is_for_Family) \n \n >F Is for Family is an American adult animated streaming television series created by Bill Burr and Michael Price for Netflix. The show is produced by Gaumont International Television, Show Productions and Vince Vaughn's Wild West Television. The show follows a dysfunctional suburban Irish-American family, and is set in the fictional town of Rustvale, Pennsylvania in the early-to-mid 1970s. The show premiered on December 18, 2015, to generally favorable reviews.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Like having a train run on her.", "TBF I'd trust Velma to be into that.", "You know it!", "Vaguely remember this, probably saw it in the 80s alongside The Flintstones. The mother sounds like Lois Griffin?", "I just assume everyone would be into that, with their preferred gender?", "Because Hanna Barbara", "Wtf does this have to do with family guy?" ]	21	videos	Before Family Guy you had this. Anybody remember this show?
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qfb407/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qfb407/deleted_by_user/	[ "Blowjobs were given that day.", "This should be a service you can hire to help get laid.", "It's better muted. That over the top laugh track ruins it." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY	/r/videos/comments/qfbi6v/system_of_a_down_chop_suey_official_hd_video/	[ "Oh yes brand new", "WAKE UP!\n\ngrbabshapllall MAKE UP!\n\nhdthscrsafdawath SHAKE UP!\n\nwydyulevethkesupnth TABLE!\n\nhrygceaanthr FABLE!\n\nYOU WANTED TO!", "I've seen comments like this before but yours made me laugh out loud a lot.", "How'd he ruin it?" ]	4	videos	System Of A Down - Chop Suey! (Official HD Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iESdQdr-TM	/r/videos/comments/qfbjhr/trailer_for_relicts_a_surprisingly_buyable_cg/	[ "Buyable?", "I think they might mean believable?", "Sold!", "I will take 5 of this video that makes little sense. I placed my credit card on the screen.", "Well it wasn't believable.", "There is no context to anything so it's difficult to feel invested.", "Completely incomprehensible." ]	7	videos	Trailer for "Relicts" a surprisingly buyable CG fantasy horror short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4F4pfclgGE&t=3190s	/r/videos/comments/qfbr5n/i_used_a_set_of_nasa_recordings_and_the_space/	[ "Nice, any other planets in the works?", "I plan to. I made this one since there wasn't a good one before. At some point I'll probably feel like listening to Neptune or Venus, and then its back to Space Engine to record some more ;)", "consider posting to r/drone (its a place for drone music, not flying drones)", "Thanks for the tip!" ]	4	videos	I used a set of NASA recordings and the Space Engine simulator to create an ambience video for my other monitor while working
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qfd7he/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qfd7he/deleted_by_user/	[ "Massage - oh me thinks this will be nice…nope.", "\"Oh, you are far from God...\"\nMan handed like a champ!", "I think the story is that the guy with the glasses is the director or something" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qfdjmi/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qfdjmi/deleted_by_user/	[ "Sounds like a vintage radio.", "Or phonograph.", "Thank you!", "Reminds me of working in the lumber warehouse in the 90s. The electric forklifts had such a musical whine about them. One of them played the three notes of the hook from \"Get your freak on\".", "Wow, cool. Thanks for this comment!" ]	6	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qfdntw/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qfdntw/deleted_by_user/	[ "you posted this to 5 other subreddits, trying hard i see.", "[Who cares](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/881/867/6f6.jpg)", "lol imagine looking down on someone for playing a game where you chase after imaginary creatures, while at the same time chasing after imaginary points." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/gd7wAithl7I	/r/videos/comments/qfdxzo/the_science_of_laziness/	[ "I'd watch it but I can't be bothered", "Fuck you Gene. That guy is always letting me downs.", "Meh, not much to this video." ]	3	videos	The science of laziness
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qff7fs/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/qff7fs/deleted_by_user/	[ "Looks like a lot of fun! Also, way to go following those dreams and making something awesome!", "This looks great. Congrats! And kudos for following your dream.", "Unity?", "Looks fun and old school!", "I could have sworn I'd seen this exact post before and I was right, OP why do you delete all the posts you make for this video? \n\nP.S If you're going to repost the same ad over and over again, you might want to consider changing the title sometimes:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/otxpqs/i_dropped_out_of_college_some_years_ago_and_had/\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/nht9wc/i_dropped_out_of_college_some_years_ago_and_had/\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/olhlsl/i_dropped_out_of_college_some_years_ago_and_had/\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/IndieGaming/comments/o19ci1/i_dropped_out_of_college_some_years_ago_and_had/", "Yeah I've seen this post quite a few times in the past couple months. At least change the text it you want to advertise your game!", "well done!", "I’ll eat spam, but give me some different ketchup options, dammit!", "Cool looking game, but it looks like all the boss fight mechanics are very similar. You might want to work on creating more diverse battles so the player isn't always just dodging around balls and throwing his own balls back.", "You should go back to college." ]	10	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/1cnOFTkpCFI	/r/videos/comments/qffawt/how_does_it_feel_to_have_mustache/	[ "old but glorious.", "Movember should release something like this", "For me, it's like running my fingers over the pages of a book.", "Like a bag of sand" ]	4	videos	How does it feel to have mustache?
https://youtu.be/i0X5gYu1eG4?t=0s	/r/videos/comments/qffvh1/filming_the_graboid_humps_outside_of_burt_and/	[ "After having seen the new Dune, I’m now convinced that Tremors started out as a Dune remake that just didn’t have enough funding to get all sci-fi so they had it take place on earth in the present", "[It's Footloose all the way down.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tremors/comments/nnsxl2/footloose_tremors_and_dune_all_exist_in_the_same/)", "Hahaha omg that’s amazing thanks for sharing", "Allways welcome! r/Tremors is a treasure trove of Tremors trivia. \n\nHave you read [Stealing Perfection?]\n(https://www.reddit.com/r/Tremors/comments/q9c48j/stealing_perfection_the_tremors_of_creating_land//) It's a 35 history of how Universal took the series from its creators. They're apparently working with [Marc Toberoff to get Tremors back to Stampede Entertainment.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/friday-the-13th-copyright-termination-appeal-1235023236/)" ]	4	videos	Filming the Graboid humps outside of Burt and Heather Gummer's house - Tremors: The Lost Tapes behind the scenes with series creator Steve S.S Wilson
https://youtu.be/cNjYNl5SD4I	/r/videos/comments/qfg9su/paprika_cinematography/	[ "Kon had a genius. This movie as a young lad is what made me critical on cinematography. And now I'm able to enjoy movies on a more artistic level.", "What is this, liked it a lot.", "Paprika. A movie that is very hard to describe but very good.", "I kinda miss the old days, when anime was cringe. Now anime is a \"lifestyle\" and \"drip\" and it ruins the aesthetic imo.", "Paprika (2006). It also has one of my favourite [opening scenes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW0v-NuudQw) in film.\n\nIt's like a more whimsical/fantastical Inception (Christopher Nolan even credits Paprika for inspiring him to make Inception). Someone steals a machine that lets therapists enter a patient's dreams and Dr. Atsuko Chiba a.k.a. 'Paprika' has to enter people's dreams to investigate for leads and recover the machine before all hell breaks loose.\n\nI highly recommend it and anything else Satoshi Kon made. He was a fantastic filmmaker and it's a tragedy that his career was cut short by cancer.", "If people remember Every Frame a Painting I highly recommend an editor's analysis of Satoshi Kon [Satoshi Kon - Editing Space & Time - 7:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz49vQwSoTE)", "I always tell people that it's basically a much weirder version of Inception.", "Thank you so much for this! Obviously anything that knows how to have whimsy, wonder and interest like this small snippet is brilliant to learn about, as is the director. Glad they got to do it. And thanks for the introduction! Marvellous.", "Inception but you fell asleep on acid.", "DROP EVERYTHING YOU HAVE IN YOUR HANDS AND WATCH THIS MOVIE\n\nOne of my favourites. The soundtrack is phenomenal and gives you this...eerie sense that everything is falling apart https://youtu.be/APIKVLw1tT0", "Paprika is an animation masterpiece." ]	11	videos	Paprika \| Cinematography
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF5w2eWcKjI	/r/videos/comments/qfgvri/wind_rotor_hub_and_blades_breaking_off_from_crane/	[ "And the blade turns into a ribbon. Neat.", "Just call the wind turbine company and tell them it was like that when they delivered it.", "Now it's a propellor", "Well at least the front didn't fall off", "Now it's pollution", "\"Your package was delivered to an individual at the address.\"", "because it was about to fall into the ocean", "I wonder if it span on its way down to the sea floor..", "That looked expensive", "expensive and dangerous, but above everything: against the rules.", "I've got a nuclear reactor or two where you can do that", "It's funny the channel is called CraneHub because someone is certainly getting fucked here.", "my main takeaway from all these crane failures is to start running once you start hearing weird pops" ]	13	videos	Wind Rotor Hub and Blades breaking off from crane and falling into the ocean at the Ormonde Wind Farm west of Barrow-in-Furness in the Irish Sea
https://youtu.be/7PKx3kS7f4A	/r/videos/comments/qfhm95/why_it_is_impossible_to_program_artificial/	[ "If you found this video interesting, then you might also like the [Stop Button Problem](https://youtu.be/3TYT1QfdfsM).", "For those really interested in this topic I highly recommend Nick Bostrums' Superintelligence. It lays out all of the problems in this area and provides very well considered predictions about AI. It covers alot of ground but this (in different terms) is one of the essential questions that book seeks to answer...", "I could listen to Robert Miles talk about problems and quirks with AI all day. Which is fantastic because he has a personal youtube channel detailing all of this. I highly recommend anyone to check it out if they found this video interesting.", "He should have focused on the difficulty of defining harm, rather than human. His edge cases for human seemed like they would be easily eliminated with any basic definition of a human. Harm would be much more difficult to define because there are so many degrees and qualities of harm. If you make the definition too strict, virtually nothing would be allowed, rendering your AI useless.", "Robot: What is a human?\n\nScientist: Anything with a predefined shape and a circulatory system filled with warm blood.\n\nProblem solved. Interesting video but ultimately pointless. Guy is just trying to sound smart.", "“Harm” and “life” are much better examples, yes. But his point still stands for sure. \n\nThese were science fiction rules. Kind of crazy that people who watch a robotics channel don’t understand that they’re not really compatible with real life.", "I would imagine you define harm the same way they are defined in law. These are English words and do have fuzzy meanings. For a robot of superior intelligence they should be able to comprehend the same way human beings can comprehend law.", "Uh oh. Did we forget that not all humans are the same shape? Or perhaps that frostbite is a thing?", "And this is just the problem with the definitions. Then we have the other problems, such as that these laws are not the laws we want for the robots.", "That guy has a PhD in Computer Science from a college with a very good CS program, and specializes in AI. He is smart.\n\nTo save your life and avoid an oncoming truck your car may need to ram a school bus it can't see inside of off a bridge. By your definition, the bus is not a human, so no problem right?\n\nIt's easy to say there could be laws that govern what an AI would do, but in practice they are simply trained by operational data. You want the AI to grasp the bigger picture and actually think about abstract concepts? Where does it stop? Is putting you in traffic potentially harmful?\n\nAt this point we can't even put an AI on Twitter without it learning to become a racist Nazi jerk in under 24-hours.", "And yet we require a judicial system to interpret laws when they pertain to gray areas. And even then, we still get it wrong sometimes.", "If you like this kind of video about AI Safety check out Rob's channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RobertMilesAI\n\nAlthough with the current prevalence of Transformer models, \"Just asking the AI to be nice\" isn't even that absurd of an idea: https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1452312580299661315", "How does the robot see all of that when looking at a human?", "Lol what an ignorant comment", "Weak sauce...", "So amputees are not humans? People with dwarfism neither? U dumb", "That was so thought provoking!", "Obligatory reminder that every Asimov Three Laws story was to show how they're unworkable in practice and usually dangerously so. People just take the introductory explanation as gospel and forget the mayhem that ensues. Arthur Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey and Edward Neumeier and Michael Miner's Robocop continued the tradition.", "So first of all, yes, Asimov's stories actually show how the Three Laws are not sufficient to protect humans from robots.\n\nBut really, the main issue with trying to apply them to AI is that they're really not about robots at all. The truth is that they're meant to be ethical rules for human-type intelligences to follow and explore. It's a philosophical exploration of a specific Kantian ethical system.\n\nIt would be like if your main takeaway from The Matrix was that we should be careful to make all computers solar-powered.", "> the difficulty of defining harm\n\nthat kind of is the end point of i, robot. the last short story is basically all about AI doing some pretty bad stuff to humans because of how it/they came to the conclusion of how to define harm.", "Because we aren't that developed yet. That's all.", "But he did do that in the Susan Calvin stories.", "You nailed it." ]	24	videos	Why it is impossible to program Artificial Intelligence to obey Asimov’s “Laws of Robotics”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rn-vMbFglI	/r/videos/comments/qfhn7q/married_life_up/	[ "Your post sucked. Fuck you.", "Do you think I should delete it?", "No.", "Cool thanks man", "Top 10 most wholesome exchanges" ]	5	videos	Married Life - UP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg	/r/videos/comments/qfirls/the_highway_where_trucks_work_like_electric_trains/	[ "Thanks to Tom Scott for showing me something that I didn't know existed. What a smart and kinda \"logical\" solution. Let's see if it actually turns out to be the viable one going forward.", ">It's prohibitively expensive. We're talking 1 billion € per electrified kilometer.\n\nIt's a few poles and some wires. It's technology used already on train tracks. No way it costs that much.", "Interesting. Would certainly encourage trucks not to sit in the middle/left lanes =)", "> It's prohibitively expensive.\n\nThey don't know really. This is why they are doing this study. Also the plan is that it would be provided by some private entity and funded from the trucks using the lines. It only has to be cheaper then diesel to make sense.\n\n> It has literally no advantage over just running a cargo train.\n\nExcept it has the massive advantage in the fact that the truck can drive where these wires do not exist. Fixing the main issue with trains (not being able to go where there are no train tracks)\n\nThe idea is that the trucks are hybrids. Basically you got electric engines that can run it but no batteries (the heavy and most expensive part of an electric vehicle) to store the power and normal diesel engine for when off the wires. Maybe in future fully electric trucks could charge off the lines too but that is not the plan for now. With this change in Germany they could lower the emissions by trucking by 2/3.\n\n> The only time this would ever be useful is for very short distances where loading and unloading a cargo train would take too much time. But for those distances, you can just run a battery truck.\n\nThis is the vast majority of truck use in Europe. Most stuff only moves a couple hundred km between warehouses/factories/sorting facilities. The average distance of international road freight in Europe is 580km. Most trips do not even go across the country borders so individual trips are even shorter.\n\nAnd no you can't use a battery truck if the truck has to be moving almost 24/7 (trunk cargo lines between warehouses etc) to be profitable.", "The one disadvantage of trains, which obviously is outweighed because we are still moving freight by trains, is that sorting and unloading cars takes a lot of time. If something could move freight as efficiently as trains but independent cars and the same infrastructure and maintenance cost, time would be saved, it would be cool, we'd have more shipping capacity and probably use it.\n\nBut that will probably never happen, people make this point to support new transportation technologies that are probably never going to be widely adopted (catenary highway, boring loop, etc.)", "Maybe it's $1 billion per kilometre for this study? Like, the government paid for the research, conversion, infrastructure, incentives, and all together cost that?\n\n\nBut yeah in production it couldn't possibly be that high.", "Battery cost decline curves and the energy density roadmap for current technologies make this already an irrelevant exercise. It's pretty much a guarantee Tesla's semi will have significantly higher range than first announced due Gigacasting, 4680 cells, structural battery pack etc. The problem with electric trucks is battery supply, but that will be changing soon.", "The expert in the video said he thinks it can be done economically for the truck operation (break even on truck conversion in 3 years) pay for constructing and mainlining the power infrastructure, and still have money left for taxes to replace gas tax for road maintenance.\n\n>We're talking 1 billion € per electrified kilometer.\n\nThat seems ridiculously high, specially considering building electrified rail costs like 3-4 million per KM. which includes the rail. That's a 3 orders of magnitude difference.\n\n>and any interruption or defect will disable the entire Autobahn due to danger thanks to high voltage\n\nThey're using tram-line voltages.\n\n>The economic and practical feasability of this is terrible. Overhead electrified mass transit works, because it is just that - mass transit.\n\nThey're talking about converting 1/3 of the highways Germany to serve the whole country. That's still mass transit. It's basically like a train that can go off-rails at any point for the last few dozen kms.", "Considering the entirety of the test project costs about 14.6 million (for 5km, and that's including costs unrelated to modifying the autobahn itself), that number you're floating there is clearly wrong.\n\nIn fact, you're off by a factor of 10, as the cost has been enumerated as 1 million per km.", "Like trolley buses that carry freight. Could be ice problems in winter though.", "could i stick a coat hanger out my window and use it to recharge my vape", "This might be something US-specific, because I rarely ever see trucks in the middle lanes (only when overtaking, which also happens to be rare since they always travel 10km/h slower than other cars following the speed limit), let alone the outer most lane.", "or not. You can have these guide wires here to charge/run cars off. And eventually as you pull away from the highway, you can use the onboard batteries, making rural areas more accessible as you only need enough power to reach back to the highway and then to a charging station, as opposed to be limited to where charging stations are.\n\nTrucks are fairly huge, so infrastructure like this could dramatically reduce the cost of building larger charging stations for trucks.\n\nI don't see this as a competing solution to batteries, but rather competing against charging stations solutions", "We lionized the concept of \"cowboy truckers\" who \"go their own way\" and operate like race car driving superstars. It's mostly due to this insane movie from the 1970s (actually a small handful of them) that really fucked up truckers' heads in a way that I am not sure we'll ever recover from", "I doubt it will be irrelevant. Even with a large and cheap battery, this system means you're less dependent on charge points and you reduce wear on your battery.", "Its the same system for trains so they probably got that figured out already.", "Trains are too unwieldy in the era of two day shipping. They carry so much at a time and move so slowly you can’t go direct to consumer. And when people are paying for two day shipping willingly you have to deliver or someone else will", "Keep on keeping on", "Yes, but you have to have two hangers, one in each hand, to make sure the current runs through your heart :)", "Then you’ve never been to Poland where trucks block the left lane trying to overtake another truck going 1km/h slower.", "How come such a small percentage of American rail line in electrified? Compare this to >50% in less developed nations like India or China?", "Cool to see this starting to get built. I remember helping to put together a proposal back in the early 2000's to NSF for a concept like this, and it ended up competing against other labs that had proposed the same/a similar idea. Good to see lots of people around the world working on it and making progress. Systems like this take a long time to mature and work the kinks out. One of the additional features talked about \"back in the day\" as well was using the grid connection to enable wired vehicle-to-vehicle communication for better coordination. That's another area actively being worked on right now in anticipation of the presence of large amounts of fully- or semi-autonomous cars [(some wireless methods are outlined here)](https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.718.1291&rep=rep1&type=pdf).", "This is amazing.", "A billion is a thousand millions. No way on earth it cost a million euro _per meter_, even for a study. That's nonsense. This is an iteration on the same technology that's used extensively for trams and trains all over the world. Its not a bloody hyperloop.", "dope", "Tesla has for now been very secretive about their Semi's specs. We don't really know how big the battery will be, how much load it can transport, how heavy it will be etc. But I guess Elon Musk is a bit of wild card, who either is good for a huge surprise or a big disappointment.", "Same in Germany.", "Maybe you can just up the current to heat up the wires.", "They could just ask the TTC in Toronto for tips for de-icing the lines if they need new and unusal ideas.", "I suspect it wouldn’t be an issue.\n\nCommuter trains avoid issue by just running a train every X minutes. Even if it’s empty. Reduces buildup on tracks too.", "Seems more like he's off by a factor of 1000. 1 million versus 1 billion.", "America bad, only America have bad driver haha", "If it wasn't for all the pesky safety rules you could skip the height restriction/building poles and lay it right into the road.", "It's not economical to electrify the middle of no-where. Trains running coast to coast or border to border pass through areas with little to poor infrastructure.\n\nedit: The US can't even keep it's bridges repaired. Lets not hope they get their shit together in the next 20 years to make infrastructure a priority. Canada probably will do parts of the network.", "With all vehicles transitioning to electric in the next 20 years or so we should find as many ways as possible to reduce charging times. Having HGV vehicles that drive long distances on highways charging while they drive will massively reduce the areas required for charging meaning less paved parking spots and more time on the road. \n\nThis technology has all the advantages of being proven over a century of use, both on track and on the road.", "This specific implementation (and addition of a battery) might be new, but the concept of powering street vehicles with overhead wires has existed for over a century, and is used daily by commuters in many cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus", "yea love him, he was near my neck of the woods a while back covering penny bridges :D", "Usually the answer is population density (which directly affects cost)", "Do they have speed limiters in the US too ?", "I work adjacently to this research in the UK. I'm not sure how much stuff is on the public website, but I might be able to dig out some presentations I've seen with numbers on them.", "Yeah, I was thinking power, not factor.", "Don't come to Atlanta. They drive in the middle, left, right anywhere they please. It's like playing vertical Frogger while driving here", "Finally. I can feel something.", "He's got a big fat playlist of \"Things You Might Not Know\": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL96C35uN7xGI9HGKHsArwxiOejecVyNem", "How does it not constantly produce short circuits? The two wires are that close together, as there are no rails to act as neutral. \n\nSurely there must be some kind of guide rail or system or something?", ">Commuter trains avoid issue by just running a train every X minutes\n\nNot necessarily. If there's not too much ice on the wire, [you'll just get a nice firework.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5SvWDe__-8)", "Late mover advantage. Where large scale infrastructure is first built, it often falls behind regions that build out later, with more advanced technilogy.", "border", "Bonus points for when it happens going uphill.", "This is me favorite scenario while driving on a highway. /s", "America has no stick to right lane rules on highways", "I know some do, but I suppose it depends on the company you work for, it also is probably an insurance deduction if you have a limiter on your fleet vehicles.", "Oh yeah, we had these in my home city when I was younger. But I never made the connection to use the same idea on highways for trucks.", "Tesla seem to be more than happy to give useless statistics like the Tesla Semi's 0-60 acceleration time, a completely pointless metric for HGVs, and yet are surprisingly coy with how much the Semi's cab actually weighs - the defining metric of how much tonnage the thing will be able to drive. Funny that.", "> It's not economical to electrify the middle of no-where.\n\nI bet at this point it would be. A standardized transport network across the country would save untold amounts of money and pollution, as well as help spread utility access to rural areas.", "There is no shortage of reserves, therefore given there a sufficient price stimulus, supply will most likely be forthcoming.", "Because car companies bought our politicians.", "considering the US can't even keep their bridges in good shape... I wouldn't expect standardization to come any time soon.\n\nEspecially to the private companies.", "The trans-Siberian railway is fully electric. I don't believe for a second that it's too expensive in Kansas, but affordable in Tuva.", "It's really the same in most places. You have your logical, reasonable drivers (Whom end up raging because of all the other idiots). Then you have everybody else, and these typically are the people who dont pay attention, think driving comes second to whatever else they are doing (I.E. on phone call), have a complete panic attack because they see a single rain drop/snow flake, or are simply uncomfortable driving so they go 10 under the limit, or worse.\n\nMy rage is strong on the roads.... because driving is not difficult, but people are such inconsiderate or oblivious assholes that should not have a license who make the rest of us suffer.\n\n/rant", "The trans-Siberian railway is fully electric. I don't believe for a second that it's too expensive in Kansas, but affordable in Tuva.", "Amazing what becomes affordable with proper political will.\n\nYou are missing the cost of politicians getting their fingers into the project and fucking it up. You'd need politicians on both sides of the house to buy in.", "Will their new infrastructure bill help American rail?", "From a logo on [their website](https://www.ehighway-sh.de/de/), it seems one line is positive, and the other negative (or more likely, the two wires are the same AC voltage, just out of phase of one another). The trucks themselves have two separate contacts for these lines (which are presumably well insulated from each other).\n\nThose wires look to be about a meter apart. So in order to induce arcing, the voltage would need to be around 3MV. But overhead line electric trains tend to run at a mere 11KV (expected arcing distance around 8 mm for -11kV to +11kV). So as long as the support towers and the truck contacts have good insulation, and it's not possible for a single contact to come anywhere near touching both cables at once, there isn't any risk of causing a short.", "Isnt this already a decade old stuff?", "Good ol elephant races.", "One can only hope that such projects are shovel ready and waiting on funds.\n\nIt'll mostly go to roads, bridges, and pipes.", "As a fan of trains, I'm sad to hear that.", "[Looooots more information here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program). Overhead cables aren't even the least expensive solution - rails in the asphalt is actually the most efficient system, and Sweden/Germany/Europe are standardizing this solution right now.", "The entire US train network is a disappointment. It can be so much better but it's not.", "❤️⚡", "No the 'Infrastructure' bill actually gives very little money for infrastructure, no where near enough to modernize. The bill will pay for repairs but that's about it.", "The best part is that these trucks won’t fucking suddenly jump into the left lane and block traffic while they slowly pass one another.", "Oh!\n\nYeah!\n\nKickstart my heart, hope it never stops!", "Pretty much. I know some drivers who specifically seeked out vehicles/companies without limiters, as some really aren't a fan. Honestly, if it would get managers/whatever off the drivers back to always make it on time, I think more would be welcoming towards it. Unfortunately, I'm sure having a limiter doesn't change unrealistic expectations much.\n\nBut yeah, some companies have it, some (mostly smaller companies) don't. As large-company trucks become more and more monitored and restricted, I wonder if it'll push more drivers towards owner-operating instead of working directly for companies.\n\nI will say, limiters can be quite dumb if you live in a state where you have a lower average speed limit (especially on highways/beltways), but have to cross into states where the speed limit is higher. So you could be limited to say 60mph, but then the next state or two over the limit is 70mph or so. Just made up numbers, but that's one scenario I can imagine.", "My big question is what the carbon footprint and environmental impact of this compared to using a regular truck would be. I'm all for electric vehicles but I feel like this would use up more resources (mostly in the short term, but still) than just using bigger/more batteries.", "> to be the viable one going forward.\n\ndoubt it, to be honest. this is implemented in Germany and those guys are religious about roads. you won't see a bump or a speck of mud. and can keep a lane going.\n\n[Here](https://s.iw.ro/gateway/g/ZmlsZVNvdXJjZT1odHRwJTNBJTJGJTJG/c3RvcmFnZTA3dHJhbnNjb2Rlci5yY3Mt/cmRzLnJvJTJGc3RvcmFnZSUyRjIwMjEl/MkYxMCUyRjIzJTJGMTQwNDEyMF8xNDA0/MTIwX2Rlbml2ZWxhcmktdHJhbnNhbHBp/bmEtY2x1anVsdWkuanBnJnc9NzgwJmg9/NDQwJmhhc2g9MDQwYzNlMmJlZmNiM2IyMjllOGVkNjNkMGE2NjA3Y2E=.thumb.jpg) is what a new road looks like in Romania", "Almost every state has a law about staying to the right. You have no idea what you're talking about.", "There is the same test going on near to Frankfurt on the A5.\n\nFrankly I have never seen any truck use the electric wires.\n\nI'm not being there daily but every few weeks for multiple hours over the last few years and it seems like this is not the solution or is not pushed enough by the government.\n\nUnfortunately.", "Wrong lol.\n\n>All states have “Keep Right Laws” which require vehicles travelling slower than the normal speed of traffic (defined differently in each state) to travel in the furthest\nright lane. A growing number of states, however, designate the far-left lane as a “passing only” lane, making it illegal to travel in that lane other than to pass another\nvehicle. Driving in the left lane for anything other than passing is not only illegal in a growing number of states, its unsafe and results in thousands of accidents\nannually, according to a study by the Traffic Operations & Safety Laboratory within the engineering department of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. When looking\nfor deeper pockets or additional defendants in automobile collision litigation, don’t look past the driver who may have put the entire sequence of events into action. If\na driver is parked in the left lane on a four-lane highway and is not passing someone or making a left turn, he or she is breaking the law in a majority of states and can\nbe ticketed.\n\n\nThe laws exist, they're just not enforced often. I'm sure this is the point where you claim to have meant that instead, but just wanted to inform you if you didn't know; US does have keep-right laws, they're just rarely enforced. I'm sure laws of that degree exist in most countries; they exist just are hardly enforced.\n\nEdit: Source.\n\n>https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/SLOWER-TRAFFIC-KEEP-RIGHT.pdf", "Happens in the UK all the time. Selfish bastards trying to get in front of each other for no reason as they're all travelling at close to the same speed. \n\nHGV drivers aren't the brightest sparks.", "> have a complete panic attack because they see a single rain drop/snow flake\n\nSadly, that reaction usually is one of the worst things someone can do; panic/freak out.\n\nTakes only a single day a year to drive out to an empty parking lot during shitty weather to learn your cars limits, as well as become more comfortable driving your vehicle. Honestly, if someone's not comfortable driving their vehicle in poor (not extreme, just poor) weather, they really don't know how to correctly drive in my opinion. Driving is not just knowing what you want and expect to do, but also be good enough to handle any normal, albeit shitty, circumstances/events as well.\n\nI wouldn't want to get on an aircraft where the pilots wouldn't know what do to in an emergency or storm, it's not acceptable IMO for driving either. Sorry, I take this stuff seriously, as I've personally seen what panicking instead of investing time into learning how to actually drive can do. Even taking driving seriously just a bit and practicing once when you get your car or a new car in general is better than nothing, and so few people do it.", "[More like over a hundred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus#History)", "Are you talking about... CONVOY? BREAKER BREAKER ONE NINE, THIS HERE'S THE RUBBER DUCK!!!\n\nSo yeah, it's a good movie, but I can understand why that (or another movie similar to it) could influence some shitty behavior by those who take it a bit too seriously. Hell, I literally only learned about this movie from a trucker who told me to watch it, go figure. Fucking awesome movie though, at least in my opinion.", "And oil companies.", "thats so cool", "like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus)", "I saw the experimental test application of this a couple of times but never saw a truck with a pantograph ever. I don't know the actual numbers and it is just anecdotal but on that small scale I doubt it makes sense or brings much change.", "My only concern would be a vehicle that lost control and hitting the wire support, causing the wires to fall to the ground and potentially on vehicles. \n\nI know it’s weird to think about, but I have been binging dash cam compilation videos on YouTube for the last month and there are a lot of bad drivers out there.", "1.21 gigawatts!?! If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're gonna see some serious shit", "I mean that is country side road you linked. \n\n[This is the A1 highway in Romania](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/A1_Orastie-Sibiu_02.jpg?1635184510145). Looks perfectly fine to me. \n\nAnd belief me, there are more than enough dirty/bumpy parts on German roads. And there are many oh so many Autobahn roadworks.", "Depends strongly on the amount of traffic. Electrification is more costly than just laying down tracks. If it is fixed lines to move people then it makes sense as the trains for that can then all use it and are not useless outside of it because they never will be used outside. If it is mostly freight and there is no fixed schedule and destinations then a train that needs electrified rail is hampered.\n\nThere are hybrid trains but they of course cost more and are heavier.", "That solution in also looks a lot nicer. Cables overhead can look ugly, especially when they get congested or end up in places where the things around them are actually nice to look at.", "did Tom Scott move to Germany or something? looking at the last few videos, they're all in Germany (minus one in Switzerland) (maybe one big efficient trip?)", "he specifically mentioned that it is not easily possible in remote areas like the one you posted (tell you what: Romanida _does_ have highways, too) and that in the case of remote areas you'd use a hybrid truck", "in Germany everything is ordered. trucks are not allowed to leave the right lane unless they overtake which is not allowed everywhere", "you don't get a fine. in the US it's a recommendation. in Germany it's actually enforced\n\nEDIT: I checked multiple states and all of them allowed overtaking on the right side if it is on a highway", "that's a NEW country road.\n\nI've seen some that looked like after world war took place there.\n\nA1 is an exception not a rule.", "I mean...trains right?", "guess you're used to wavy roads already.", "That’s good, because I can see an issue with oversized loads. There’s already issues with moving very large objects across the country, anyone who’s done a multi state car trip will probably have seen signs warning of width restrictions on interstates near construction or on backwater bridges. But anyone who’s been on a highway with overpasses has seen height restrictions, they’re labeled on just about every bridge. Adding in a 15-18’ restriction on the right lane of every interstate would severely restrict the ability to move those large objects. It would also make it difficult to enter and exit the interstate if they install overheads along the merge lanes associated with the interchanges.", "only the US has the unique ability to come up with excuses to not build/maintain non-car centric infrastructure.", "You're not thinking long term if you think regular diesel trucks are still a better alternative than installing cabling on motorways. It's more sustainable from economic, environmental and health perspective. Massive batteries also have major downsides even ignoring the environmental detriment created by lithium extraction.\n\nIt's also a very mature technology, where battery tech isn't.", "induced demand also works for other infrastructure, not only cars. if you build more rails etc more people/companies will use it thus making it more affordable", "I get that. But it is just a couple of km right now. It will take much more than that to do anything, I think.", "Oh I totally agree and it's super dangerous. I'm a faster driver and typically passing, but I know my limits and that of my vehicle very well. \n\nThe only time I ever pull stupid shit is when I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 under the speed limit when its raining, or when snow is barely falling... like there's no snow accumulation on the roads, but they see it and drive like the entire road could be black ice. I'll attempt to pass, even in snow, every time if someone is driving like this. \n\nMy world keeps moving, snow or not, and I need to keep moving with it. These extremely careful people tend to push me to the extreme in the opposite direction and it's not good. Part of that is me, a large part of it is the people who should NOT be driving.", "the novelty is to use it on the highway which has quite different requirements", "They aren't supposed to sit in far lane and in many places are explicitly banned from the left most lane. Problem is some drivers will move to overtake and either not have the power to do it quickly or will sit over there trying to slowly pass every truck in sight.", "No? Electric trains maybe", "American driving tests are ridiculously simple compared to many - maybe that's where it comes from?", "Were those hybrid?", "Some tram systems work like this - it's called [ground-level power supply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply). It's mainly used in historical cities to avoid cluttering the streets with poles and wires. So those considerations don't matter on a highway. (I'm not sure, but I suspect it's more expensive to build and maintain than overhead wire systems.)", "I liked it too, along with a lot of its silly TV movie clones. However, I did not make a religion out of it, or take it as a manual for life. That's probably something we should be reinforcing with kids; Movies are not real. Neo didn't actually take a red pill. Superheroes have not and never will exist. It's all just normal people trying to do their best.", "Yeah, I honestly really enjoyed the movie, and got me into American Truck Simulator pretty heavy. Especially after my coworker let me drive the truck a bit in an empty parking lot, that was cool as fuck. \n\nAll in all, I agree, some people take stuff like that way too seriously. In my opinion, once a hobby/interest crosses into \"my way of life\" territory, it's too much. Goes for anything, drinking, weed, work, kids, etc. People are complicated and have many interesting things/shit about them, focusing all your time/energy into one thing as a lifestyle is just... weird. Everyone has different interests, nothing wrong with say, trucking and liking cats, or trucking and gaming for example. \n\nBasing your life/personality entirely on a movie/story/book is just weird and kinda nuts. It's like... self-stereotyping or something, as movies and stuff generalize a lot of things for ease of getting things across on the big screen. Generally people who do that come across almost as a mocking caricature of whatever their interest/hobby/job is, obviously depending on wherever they sourced their knowledge of it from.", "LOL, -21 downvotes. Keep the herd mentality folks, your wrong.", "I'll believe this will happen in the US when Nancy Pelosi's husband buys a large IPO in a company that installs the cables.", "You're right it isn't a new idea, they were clearly influenced by trolleybuses. \nBut this system seems to have clear advantages over a trolleybus system, it doesn't need complex junctions because it is a continuous set of wires, it also allows trucks to connect and disconnect at will, and it's designed for highway speeds. \nThis is adapting old technology for new uses which is very cool.", "Like electric railways the system is split into electrically isolated sections, so one short wouldn't bring down the whole system especially if the truck can just disconnect and drive past the problem using an ICE or battery power.", "Just use a fucking train please it’s more efficient and creates less waste and can carry far more", "We used to have a trolleybus system up until 2017. It was done away with because of the cost of infrastructure maintenance and upgrading, inflexibility of a wire linked network, plus slower speeds and less reliability than diesel buses.\n\nThere was an announcement of replacing/retrofitting the busses with an unproven gas-turbine hybrid powertrain. The problem with unproved technology is that it's unproven, and still was.\n\nSo they got rid of the \"unsightly wires\", before replacing/retrofitting the trolleybus fleet, which meant there were less busses available. \n\nIn the end they replaced the clean, quiet electric trolley busses with second/third-hand noisy dirty diesel busses from another city who were getting rid of them because they'd upgraded to newer, cleaner diesels.", "Yeah it sounds like the safety systems built into the ground based power supply is actually more expensive than all those poles and extra wiring.\n\nI like the idea of induction coils at intersections but then we're hooked on poorly managed traffic where cars sit at lights for long enough to charge. Funny.\n\nIn an ideal situation the cars would submit to central logistics and wherever possible traffic would be routed so there are no stops and everything is timed perfectly.", "I wonder how much wear the friction from trucks passing under the wires causes. It wouldn't be just a few vehicles like with trains, but a lot of them. And some of them will be poorly maintained. So how often will the wires need changing?\n\nI'm just assuming its dragging friction, not rolling friction from some small bearings on the connection point?", "Car fuel tax is 60%+ in the UK, I wonder how much is left over for that when you use electricity", "If only I could stick a pentagraph on my kids and tell them to get to work", "Depends on the state your in. I bet your ass that you try that in rural Georgia in a town with high traffic quotas you’re getting pulled over.", "so [here](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2013/vat/title-7/article-25/1123/) is an example from new york. it is _explicitly_ allowed to overtake on the right if the road is one way (including highways). so yes, technically New York requires you to stay on the right side but the text allows overtaking on the right anytime you are on a highway. in Germany overtaking on the right is always forbidden\n\nthe same holds true in [California](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21754.). again, in general overtaking on the right is not allowed but it is explicitly allowed on highways\n\nin [Washington](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115) it is allowed when it is safe to do so. so that's a yes as well\n\nin [Georgia](https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-40/chapter-6/article-3/40-6-43) (your example) overtaking on the right is _also_ explicitly allowed on highways. maybe double check your laws", "I've never understood how the powerlines and thing that connects to it from the truck don't wear out like super fast? There must be so much friction and wear on both the line and the whatever-it's-called? I've always wondered about this on trams with the same system.", "I assume it's because a lot of American cities and suburbs were built post WW2 where a lot of people were driving cars.", "Id Imagine it'd be something similar to train and tram right? No idea what that is of course hah.", "Boogie woogie!", "Wouldn't in ground electrified rails be hazardous to people and living things?", "This is also a regulation/enforcement issues.\n\nSome places don't regulate that the left lanes are for passing only. Some places don't enforce it.\n\nBut in most of the world, that's the case, and especially so for big vehicles.", "Depends on the city in the US in big cities it's not terribly uncommon to have little to no lead up to the freeway before a merge, and if you sit in the right lane and were to theoretically not move ever for merging vehicles because of high traffic density, there would be bodies lining the ditches of American roads comparable to maybe the baton death March, because people merging won't sometimes can't get up to speed and you are hard to stop at interstate speeds in a semi truck.", "Well, yeah, sitting in a far right merge and exit lane in a semi truck would be incredibly stupid to do around Atlanta. It's usually best to be one lane to the left of the right most lane in high density traffic with many merges and exits.", "trains are electric, they use diesel generators to make the electricity", "Truckers don't drive like cowboy truckers lol that's ridiculous in so many ways", "The thing is that your typical train has one locomotive pulling dozens of containers, while trucks would have each truck moving one or two containers or so.", "Trains can be electric but certainly not all trains. Not all trains have diesel generators and diesel generators are not primarily electric, they are mechanical motors. The first trains for example? They no longer run on steam surely but saying they are all electric is just as misleading. Trains that existed before diesel even existed. My point is there's a designation for a reason and your snarky reply of \"I mean... trains right?\" isn't necessary or correct in any meaningful way. Cheers.", "Found Adam Something's reddit account. (Jk, they should just electrify their rail line)", "Meanwhile India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.", "Lol, this isn't a state run project. Someone does own it.", "Plus I feel like there's more movement on the road than you'd have on train tracks. Road conditions tend to be more variable than what we get with rail.", "At least in Germany, track capacity is about to be maxed out already. There's simply not enough bandwidth to move significantly more goods onto tracks. There's not much potential for an expansion of the track network either because the bottlenecks tend to be in densely populated areas where you can't just add another track. NIMBY's tend to torpedo these infrastructure projects too. They always end up getting delayed by decades and costing way more than anticipated.", "That was my thought as well. Gonna be a lot of roadkill.", "I think that is because those are test tracks for studies and feasibility tests.\nI would like to see a solution like that it seems elegant compared to massive batteries otherwise required", "You know, it'd probably be even more efficient if instead of having each truck have it's own electric motor, if you just linked a bunch of them together somehow, and just had the whole chain of them pulled by a single big motor\n\nwhile we're at it, that rubber on asphalt probably has pretty high friction, I bet there's some way you could reduce that. hmm", "There is not much friction you can push the spring on the truck down with a finger. The iron part on the truck/trains is of a softer metal than the cable so most of the wear happens on the train side. Also the cable runs in a zig zag pattern so the bar is never touching the cable in the same spot for long.", "Only if you touch both of the rails at the same time. There are also safety systems to stop this from happening.", "Not 100% true, because rail is still massive in the US...just freight rail, not passenger rail.", "It's just sliding friction. You get a good shot of the system at 1:13 when they deploy it. I went down a small Google rabbit hole and there are some different design styles for overhead wire systems in general, depending on how \"permanently\" they need to stay coupled. For instance light rail systems have couplers.\n\n[This \"thought piece\"](https://humantransit.org/2010/09/the-next-transport-revolution-trolley-wire-on-every-street.html) I came across posed some interesting questions towards the end but nothing too detailed in this specific regard.", "Yes but the space required to transport the same amount of goods using trucks is far greater than a train. If you simply have no more room to build rail than there simply is no more room for any method of transport. Perhaps railways could be built to navigate around these bottlenecks? Maybe the only trains that go in and out of cities can be to deliver goods to and from the city and trains that need to go to different destinations can pass through auxiliary lines that cut through the outskirts of the city.", "Hey it’s good to see another Adam something fan in the wild", "Truck driver dating. \n\nThe best dates are when the overtaking driver gives up and has to back down. Dangerous as fuck but they don't give a shit.", "But we are mostly talking about freeways here. That isn't one.", "Rail line as in freight trains? Tons of them are already diesel/electric motors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#Diesel-electric", "growing up in SF I was surprised to learn these aren't common everywhere", "Top minds of Reddit right here", "I’m in the UK and you will constantly see trucks in the middle lane on motorways.", "Some of the busses in Philly run on this exact system (or close enough).", "Road would defo get more left-to-right friction, but trains are way faster forwards.", "Seattle has an overhead system for busses in much of the city proper.", "highways are not generally filled with animal traffic...", "Most heavy hauling diesel locomotives convert diesel to electricity, which are used to run electric traction motors. These are called diesel electric locomotives.\n\nThe Indian railways for example, are converting most of their lines to electric and are experimenting with converting their diesel locomotives to electric ones by removing the diesel engine and replacing with electrical equipment.\n\nThough of course there are locomotives which use their diesel engines connected to a hydraulic pump, which in turn turns the wheels. These are diesel hydraulics, but these are mostly relegated to shunting duty.", "Blah blah blah though right? My point stands.", "I've been saying we need grid-tye roads for ages. We could have done this in the 60s", "Same in San Francisco.", "I just love the idea that it would keep trucks in one lane instead of all over the place racing down the highway.", "Well they drive on the left side over there, sooooo", "And a lot of times the right side of the road because being safe is not a priority as long as you get there fast.", "care to elaborate?", "ok, who said I drive far right lane?", "Basically, keep things the same but make sure those things don't fail.", "Wouldn’t snow or other inclement weather affect this?", "Interesting", "Trust the Germans to come up with a solution.\n\nI can see this working really well on the high traffic routes on the east coast of Australia.", "...they do. What's your point?\n\nTracks don't go everywhere. Trains are great, but not enough on their own", "Range. Trucks need big range. If it was battery only, they would need to be MASSIVE batteries", "I was referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size\n\nIt's clearly not 'tons'.", "Ah I see. I think we're a bit confused on terms. I'm talking about the engine/locomotive itself. And almost all if not all of the electric train lines here are passenger trains in big cities. Most of the track is freight tracks that are fairly low maintenance all over the country.", "Found Adam Something's reddit alt account.", "Compared to the US, the Soviet Union got off to a very slow start in electrification but later greatly surpassed the US. Electrification in the US reached its maximum of 5,000 km in the late 1930s which is just when electrification was getting its start in the USSR. \n\nBy 2008, the tonne-kilometres hauled by electric trains in Russia had increased to about 85% of rail freight.\n\nYour excuse is a valid reason that electrification is harder in the US, but it's not the reason why we haven't made it happen. Russia electrified its railways after they'd been built, and we could do the same thing if we chose to.\n\nOr maybe there's something inherent in the Russian system from 1929-1990 that made it more politically feasible to electrify their railways. I wonder what the difference was 🤔", "Slurp slurp.", "> And some of them will be poorly maintained.\n\nMost of Europe has very high standards as far as making sure commercial vehicles are roadworthy, you don't really get junk trucks driving around and particularly in places like Germany.", "I can deal with ugly if it saves a truck from burning diesel, I agree it isn't the best looking thing but then neither is an autobahn.\n\nJust a feature of the modern world, we're probably going to have to get used to seeing a lot more electrical infrastructure.", "Australia o.o", "Getting a CDL in America is not a ridiculously simple test.", "Roads have pot holes and bumps too.", "That railway carries 30% of Russia's exports. Trains going through Kansas aren't doing that.", "I lived in Germany.... there are many roads that are not immaculate lol", "I know why they don't do the buried coils under the road. The install cost plus wear and tear don't work out. I'd be curious if putting coils over the trucks would work out better than the direct contact wires. It just seems the cables would wear out at a crazy rate, plus they put a speed limit on the truck.", "So the transit entity I work for handles ice on our OCS (overhead catenary system) a few different ways. First is just through normal use. The more you run a carbon strip (the part of the pantograph that contacts the wire) along the OCS it will naturally knock any build up off. Our carbon strips also have resistive heaters built into them ( the wires for them can be seen [here](http://imgur.com/a/OrwVdBx) ) that help clear them of any build up. We also have separate [ice cutters](http://imgur.com/a/fyWJaHq) that can be deployed. They are more aggressive in their design and are configured to run infront of the main power collection pantograph. They are only used during specific conditions to reduce wear on the OCS. Its also not uncommon for us to run extra trains out of service during hours of reduced service, like overnight, during winter storms to keep everything clear. That said, issues still happen and ice can shut us down or cause delays till its been cleared.", "Electric trains are much older than diesel locos", "It seems like all these elaborate electrified motor vehicles are just skirting around the elephant in the room which is that we've created a car-centric infrastructure and we're not willing to get away from it, and relying on electric trucks will perpetuate the reliance on highways, which will perpetuate the dependance on private vehicles, and in this car-highway-car feedback loop we're not going to move towards the extremely low carbon output future we need.", "And it pays for itself, too. Incredible.", "So pantographs like the ones in the video or the ones used on trains use a carbon strip to run along the wire. It is similar to the brushes in an electric motor. The carbon material does get worn away and the carbon strips are considered a consumable part. They can be rebuild though. The OCS (overhead catenary system) wire will wear over time, but not as fast as the significantly softer carbon strip. \n\nThat said, there are issues with the system shown in the video. In the clips showing the carbon strips on the [vehicle](http://imgur.com/a/7H68xIX) you can see grooves from where the OCS has worn into the carbon. For that trains I work on that kind of wear would indicate a problem. Almost certainly to much \"up force\" on the pantograph. An almost brand new set of carbon strips looks like [this](http://imgur.com/a/mUREcvj) while a good in use set looks like [this](http://imgur.com/a/Z4Cv6UE). Its hard to see, but if you look close a very slightly trough has developed in the middle 80 ish percent of the strip. The width of that section is due to the zig zag nature of the OCS and is done on purpose to prevent it from rubbing in one spot for to long. That might also be what is causing the issue with the uneven wear from the video. With the pantograph the trucks are using having two strips side by side they may not have the ability to move very the position of the wire overhead quite as much. The fact that the truck can also drift left and right in the lane vs a train that's on rails may play into that as well. As for the OCS itself, they tend to be a brass alloy that while soft isn't as soft as the carbon. [This](http://imgur.com/a/fJ2UpyL) is an off cut of some new OCS from when we had some replaced at our facility.", "I've got an idea. We lay parallel metal \"rails\" and have one powerful engine pull multiple containers at one time. We could call it a \"train\".", "We already got buses like that.", "I thought at one point Elon Musk or someone was talking about putting electricity in the street itself so the truck could charge it's battery while it drove to the next location.\n\nanyway....", "> save untold amounts of money\n\nSave who money?", "San Francisco's MUNI system has these throughout the city.", "Well, they'll at least keep these fixed!", "The busses in San Francisco have been doing this since 1935. It works well. I think they also have them in Mexico city.", "Erm...\n\n> All states have “Keep Right Laws” which require vehicles travelling slower than the normal speed of traffic (defined differently in each state) to travel in the furthest right lane.\n\nThat means that if you're driving a normal speed you ARE allowed to stay in the left lane. Ie. it's defacto NOT a universal keep right law, except if you're going slow. It's a don't drive slowly in the left lane law.\n\nCountries like Germany you're required to keep right, even if you're driving a 'normal speed', and overtaking on the right is against the law.", "Well, it's very simplified as an answer considering Atlanta will cut its interstate in half with exits, the middle lane is pretty normal to drive in. As with any answer that requires any nuance, it's far more troublesome to be thoroughly accurate in an long winded answer, especially when people make so much of an effort to be disingenuous about the situation in the first place and make it sound like Atlanta's left lanes ok the interstate are full of trucks blocking traffic lol.", "> It just seems the cables would wear out at a crazy rate, plus they put a speed limit on the truck.\n\nI don't know what the wear rates are for trains, but given the system has been used for decades there, I assume it's a pretty mature technology and that problem has already been solved. Installing coils under the road would cause massive disruption while the road is dug up, coils laid and the road rebuilt. Plus if something goes wrong that's a load more disruption.\n\nWhile you would need to close the roads to build the overhead cabling, it should be a whole lot quicker of a process, so cause less disruption overall.", "Trolleybus reinvented?", "I know there's a problem with installing them under the road, I was asking about OVER the road.", "Aah, my bad. For some reason my brain added a 'don't' as the second word in your sentence.", "I've been driving this highway quite a few times already, but I have yet to see a truck that actually uses this. I'm sure they exist, but there are just not that many of them to make it worthwhile.", ".....Since no one's going to bring this up, I might as well do it:\n\nTrains are only the best solution when the start & end points for the train are of high enough population/industrial density. Trains are simply not economical for rural communities, as the construction & maintenance costs for the infrastructure would be too much per person/cargo that would be transported to/from that rural region.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nAnd thus, a problem arises: There is a need to decarbonize transport vehicles, but the economical costs for replacing diesel-powered trucks with trains are a massive net negative per cargo/person for rural communities. No voter would be in favor of replacing roads with train tracks, once the economic costs are shown to them. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nThis is the best solution that we can have if we want rural communities to also decarbonize. The idealistic dream of \"trains everywhere\" runs counter to the realities of the economic costs for trains: They only make sense in areas of high enough densities.", "Oh I'm sure - I was replying to this:\n\n> only America have bad driver", "And those are called diesel electrics. Electric trains are powered by lines or batteries", "Why not just use trains?", "There is already a good bit of left-right friction on trains as the wire zigzags over the track to even out wear on the contactor.", "I live here mate. Freeways have cars and little else.", "So... trains? Lol my point is op saying \"trains are electric\" is false.", "That kind of road is thoroughly encumbered with overhead signage and overpasses (because level crossings aren't acceptable) either way.", "These things actually run on a measly 670V. See \"Was unterscheidet das System eHighway vom Oberleitungssystem der Bahn?\" in the [FAQ](https://www.ehighway-sh.de/de/faq.html).", "Explain how that would work?\n\nYou need to get containers from a shipping port to a bunch of warehouses. These warehouses are all conveniently in an industrial park.\n\nHow close do you propose the rails are placed? Remember that this has to be a through-rail, not a terminus because this train carrying at least 50 cars needs to make multiple drops.\n\nRemembering that you're constrained by track curvature and inclination limits, this line is going to inevitably going to cross and block roads the whole time it's being unloaded. Unless you're also proposing zero level crossings?\n\nThis train that's diesel-electric powered because you can't have overhead wires above a freight train, is going to be doing a lot of stop-starting.\n\nIf you don't put a loop in track, you're going to need a locomotive on the back to haul it back to the port.", "This feels like using trains with extra steps", "Meanwhile, in 2009 ...\n\n>Researchers at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have developed an electric transport system where the vehicles get their power needs from cables UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE OF THE ROAD via non-contact magnetic charging. ... In February 2009 KAIST researchers illustrated that it is possible for a vehicle to receive up to 80% power conveyance with a 1cm gap between the vehicle and the power line. A subsequent test drive of the technology (see gallery) was attended by dignitaries and government officials, including Korean President Lee Myung-bak, and provided the researchers with an opportunity to promote the concept. [(source)](https://newatlas.com/kaist-olev-electric-vehicle/12557/)\n\n[\"OLEV Bus, wireless charging system electric vehicles/ Gumi, South Korea\" (2013)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z9FW9ijP3Y)", "I would imagine they use a softer material on the collector such as aluminium or carbon to prevent wear on the (presumably steel) cables.", "Everyone.", "Trucks ruin roads, they're 9000 times more destructive to roads than the average sedan. Honestly we need to put heavy freight back where it belongs, rail.", "How? Explain how this puts more money in my wallet.", "That's really really easy. Have you noticed how the cost of goods recently went up in response to the massive bottleneck off the west coast of the US? \n\nI work retail, and I watched items that have had the same price for years go up 20-30 bucks over night.\n\nThe roads would be less abused making your car last longer and traffic lighter. \n\nIt'd reduce the need for fossil fuels, lowering the price of gas. \n\nPrices for internet would drop as the build out we paid the ISPs billions for actually gets completed.\n\nCross country travel would be cheaper. \n\nI could think of dozens of reasons.", "/r/iamverysmart", "It’s weird going to other major cities and not seeing wires everywhere", "Brilliant! Solves many problems.", "Well, I don't understand German, so I'm a bit reliant on Google Translate here. But if that's accurate, seems it's just using 670 DC instead of AC. I find that kind of surprising since usually you want to use AC on transmission lines.", "Do you think that providing a large series of electrical guide wires to link up with trucks to every single rural town is going to be cheap? Ultimately more costs will accrue from vehicle maintenance and road maintenance (which becomes very intensive once the roads 20 year lifecycle is up) that simply having a train line run through rural areas would be more efficient. It would also be more environmentally friendly, as trucks, even fancy electric ones, produce far more waste than electric trains. While some rural towns may be to remote to have a train line run through it without it being too expensive, that town may have to make due with normal trucks, because I am guessing that having an electrified highway system would still be too costly for the town to maintain.", "At least on the Autobahn the overtaking is constant though. Good luck going 2 minutes on a busy stretch without seeing at least one truck hogging the center lane trying to overtake another truck going the same speed.", "WITNESS ME", "Losses are actually smaller with DC, but almost all of the time you'd need to specifically convert to DC after transforming down (which you obviously can't readily do in DC) from some higher transport voltage. \nMaybe the technical overheads for things like emergency shutoffs are so great that a bit of conversion doesn't make much of a difference, or the trucks are built around this battery voltage and can avoid a bunch of extra charging equipment that way.", "This could never work in America unless they allow the charging lines to be on both sides of the road so the trucks can ride side-by-side not allowing anyone to pass for miles at a time.", "For the systems in use now (underground third rail for trams / streetcars) only the piece of rail under the tram is electrified. The other parts are switched off. \n \nOverhead lines are cheaper and more reliable, underground power rails prettier, basically.", "head outback", "It is not economical at all to build this in the outback. This would only exist near populated areas, where there are far fewer animals.", "Fascinating stuff, thank you", "As these are test tracks, I wouldn't expect very high usage from the public. They're not planned to last much longer, so the investment in equipment only has a temporary payoff and is useless for other routes. Once they're widespread I'd expect much higher adoption, cost will be the motivating factor." ]	239	videos	The highway where trucks work like electric trains

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