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Waiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner."
] |
>
Doesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick"
] |
>
Sounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it"
] |
>
Pathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands."
] |
>
The headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave."
] |
>
The title understates how fucked up this is.
A homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died.
Absolutely fucking astonishing.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus"
] |
>
He seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing."
] |
>
Donald Trump 2.1.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician."
] |
>
How much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1."
] |
>
George Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA"
] |
>
He’s the Despicable Me villain
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA",
">\n\nGeorge Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker"
] |
>
Unfun fact: the dying dog was his conscience.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA",
">\n\nGeorge Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker",
">\n\nHe’s the Despicable Me villain"
] |
>
What a scumbag. And the proud states of America are too cowardly to prosecute little pickpockets like Santos or Trump.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA",
">\n\nGeorge Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker",
">\n\nHe’s the Despicable Me villain",
">\n\nUnfun fact: the dying dog was his conscience."
] |
>
This article is deeply troubling. It is unacceptable for someone to take advantage of the generosity of others by falsely claiming to help veterans in need, especially when it comes to providing service animals that can greatly improve the lives of veterans suffering from PTSD and other conditions.
This kind of fraud not only takes advantage of the public's trust and generosity, but it also undermines the reputation of legitimate organizations and individuals who are genuinely working to support veterans and their families.
Furthermore, I believe that it is important for people to be cautious when donating to online fundraising campaigns, especially those that make emotional appeals. It is always a good idea to research the organization or individual running the campaign before making a donation, and to be wary of unrealistic claims or a lack of transparency.
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA",
">\n\nGeorge Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker",
">\n\nHe’s the Despicable Me villain",
">\n\nUnfun fact: the dying dog was his conscience.",
">\n\nWhat a scumbag. And the proud states of America are too cowardly to prosecute little pickpockets like Santos or Trump."
] |
>
|
[
"This is what peak Republican looks like.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos once pushed a little old lady into a mud puddle and also he punched a baby. \n(Can we get a chain of these going?)",
">\n\nGeorge Santos just leaves his shopping cart in the parking lot.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos leaves floaters in public bathrooms for fun.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos unplugs hospital patients' life support to charge his iPhone",
">\n\nGeorge Santos only uses turn signals when he isn’t turning",
">\n\nGeorge Santos steals his grandma’s social security checks.",
">\n\nYou could not honestly write a better caricature of what republican's actually are.",
">\n\nRemember, this is the same party that impeached a president over a single lie.\nAnd Republicans were VERY quick to point out, ad nauseum, that Clinton was being impeached for lying, not the sex itself. \nTurns out they don’t give a fuck about honesty.\nBut we all kinda figured that out when Herr Groppenfuhrer bragged about sexually assaulting a married woman (while married himself) and the Evangelicals cheered, huh?",
">\n\nThis man took one look at the Republican party and said \"I can be a lying, greedy piece of shit and actually move up in the world.\" and so far none of them have proven him wrong.",
">\n\nIt's bad enough that George Santos is a massive lying hustler, apparently he's also a ghoul who preys on people during the most soul wretching moments in their lives.\nDude should have dozens of martial arts performed upon his genital region.",
">\n\nGeorge santos is con-artist, everybody is pond for him and way to make money",
">\n\nRepublicans: That's our guy!",
">\n\nAnd it's worse than it sounds.\nIt was a charity for veteran's service animals.",
">\n\n“I contacted [Santos] and told him ‘You’re messing with a veteran,’ and that he needed to give back the money or use it to get Osthoff another dog,” Boll said. “He was totally uncooperative on the phone.”",
">\n\nThis bingo card was already filled up two weeks ago, can I get another one for the next two weeks?",
">\n\nWhen r/politics and r/nottheonion become one",
">\n\nso 2010?",
">\n\n2015, certainly, if not before",
">\n\nAnd republicans keep rewarding him.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos punches dog, laughs \nStill gets majority Republican vote",
">\n\nThis guy is the worst.",
">\n\nThis the same George Santos who stormed the Beaches of Normandy and freed the British? The same George Santos who crossed the Delaware while leading the continental army to victory? If so I hear that guy has saved at least like 100 dogs.",
">\n\n”Was it over when George Santos bombed Pearl Harbor??”",
">\n\nThis clown’s involvement in plotting 9/11 is just around the corner.",
">\n\nWaiting to hear reports about him in cahoots with Snidely Whiplash to steal a bank vault. Mischievous prick",
">\n\nDoesn't matter. McCarthy has been fluffed enough to ignore it",
">\n\nSounds like the House Small Business Committee is in good hands.",
">\n\nPathological liar, sociopath, fraudster and now it appears he is also a one man crime wave.",
">\n\nThe headlines just get more and more tabloid because the GOP is a circus",
">\n\nThe title understates how fucked up this is.\nA homeless veteran’s dog developed a life-threatening tumor that required a $3K surgery to remove. Santos set up a GoFundMe and eclipsed that number within two months, but demanded that the surgery take place at a specific clinic. After the doctors there declined to operate, Santos offered to take the dog for an ultrasound without the owner present. When that deal was declined, Santos said the funds would be reappropriated for “the next animal in need” and fucking disappeared. The dog died. \nAbsolutely fucking astonishing.",
">\n\nHe seems like a lovely trustworthy republican politician.",
">\n\nDonald Trump 2.1.",
">\n\nHow much lower can this A H get? He must have been groomed by Trump or maybe he’s Trumps illegitimate child and it’s all part of their DNA",
">\n\nGeorge Santos must be my dad, coz he a real mother fucker",
">\n\nHe’s the Despicable Me villain",
">\n\nUnfun fact: the dying dog was his conscience.",
">\n\nWhat a scumbag. And the proud states of America are too cowardly to prosecute little pickpockets like Santos or Trump.",
">\n\nThis article is deeply troubling. It is unacceptable for someone to take advantage of the generosity of others by falsely claiming to help veterans in need, especially when it comes to providing service animals that can greatly improve the lives of veterans suffering from PTSD and other conditions.\nThis kind of fraud not only takes advantage of the public's trust and generosity, but it also undermines the reputation of legitimate organizations and individuals who are genuinely working to support veterans and their families.\nFurthermore, I believe that it is important for people to be cautious when donating to online fundraising campaigns, especially those that make emotional appeals. It is always a good idea to research the organization or individual running the campaign before making a donation, and to be wary of unrealistic claims or a lack of transparency."
] |
Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.
|
[] |
>
I’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person."
] |
>
Nah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are."
] |
>
On Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story."
] |
>
Capital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old."
] |
>
what an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.
i hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.
if it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison."
] |
>
And then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again."
] |
>
no, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive."
] |
>
Throw him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!
And then beat him some more w those amputated arms
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again."
] |
>
I fully support this idea.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms"
] |
>
I feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.
He punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea."
] |
>
I'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit."
] |
>
The little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co."
] |
>
I can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!"
] |
>
The worst examples of humanity.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals."
] |
>
This hurts a lot to read.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity."
] |
>
The mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.
Edit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read."
] |
>
Life has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned."
] |
>
That poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on."
] |
>
It’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck."
] |
>
So much pain in this world.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.",
">\n\nIt’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate."
] |
>
Both should get life without parole. And every night, they get 30 minutes of sleep, and they get slapped awake, then aloud to go back to sleep for another 30 minutes.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.",
">\n\nIt’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate.",
">\n\nSo much pain in this world."
] |
>
Heartbreaking but I don’t see how anyone is surprised. Unwanted children are abused daily and that can be to the point of death.
I vote in favor of less unwanted children to be at this risk of abuse.
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.",
">\n\nIt’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate.",
">\n\nSo much pain in this world.",
">\n\nBoth should get life without parole. And every night, they get 30 minutes of sleep, and they get slapped awake, then aloud to go back to sleep for another 30 minutes."
] |
>
Poor babies, I wish I could have taken some of the pain for you both over the last two years, you did nothing wrong and you did not deserve to be hurt 😔
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.",
">\n\nIt’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate.",
">\n\nSo much pain in this world.",
">\n\nBoth should get life without parole. And every night, they get 30 minutes of sleep, and they get slapped awake, then aloud to go back to sleep for another 30 minutes.",
">\n\nHeartbreaking but I don’t see how anyone is surprised. Unwanted children are abused daily and that can be to the point of death. \nI vote in favor of less unwanted children to be at this risk of abuse."
] |
>
|
[
"Anyone who hurts defenseless children and animals is the worst type of person.",
">\n\nI’d venture to say people aren’t capable of this, only monsters are.",
">\n\nNah, keep the veil off your eyes mate. People are the monsters of this story.",
">\n\nOn Christmas for fucks sake. Should be a happy joyful exciting time for a 4 yr old.",
">\n\nCapital punishment is too good for this animal, I hope he dies hard in prison.",
">\n\nwhat an absolute peice of trash human being. taking his frustration out by being physically violent with a fucking FOUR YEAR OLD.\ni hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.\nif it was up to me, id sentance him to have his arms medically amputated. so he could never hit anyone else ever again.",
">\n\nAnd then beaten with those amputated arms till no longer alive.",
">\n\nno, no let him suffer. broken and forgotten in a dark hole where he never sees the light of day or another human being ever again.",
">\n\nThrow him a can of cat food every couple of weeks, just to barely keep him alive and in miserable agony!\nAnd then beat him some more w those amputated arms",
">\n\nI fully support this idea.",
">\n\nI feel sick to my fucking stomach. This all happened on Christmas no less.\nHe punched her in the chest 3 times and killed her. Chair the piece of shit.",
">\n\nI'd prefer they get sent to The LeQuint Dickey Mining Co.",
">\n\nThe little girl was autistic too. What a vile man. The mom is also a p.o.s. to just leave them for years!",
">\n\nI can’t read that whole article. Fuck these animals. Fuck these animals.",
">\n\nThe worst examples of humanity.",
">\n\nThis hurts a lot to read.",
">\n\nThe mom left the kids in the care 2 years earlier. Sounds like a third person needs to be charged. 2 fucking years earlier is a nice way of saying abandoned her kids 2 years earlier.\nEdit: i can't find any articles regarding these girls being kidnapped. These girls were calling these people mom and dad. So yes I am guessing they were abandoned.",
">\n\nLife has taught me, if a person like that can’t be rehabilitated (news flash: he can’t, he beat a four year old to death), they’re too dangerous to be kept alive. They’re also not worth wasting resources on.",
">\n\nThat poor baby. How heartbreaking it is that so many defenseless little kids met such terrible ends after such short and painful lives. It's a new story every day it seems. Fuck.",
">\n\nIt’s about to get much worse with abortion restrictions and no increased funding in social services to compensate.",
">\n\nSo much pain in this world.",
">\n\nBoth should get life without parole. And every night, they get 30 minutes of sleep, and they get slapped awake, then aloud to go back to sleep for another 30 minutes.",
">\n\nHeartbreaking but I don’t see how anyone is surprised. Unwanted children are abused daily and that can be to the point of death. \nI vote in favor of less unwanted children to be at this risk of abuse.",
">\n\nPoor babies, I wish I could have taken some of the pain for you both over the last two years, you did nothing wrong and you did not deserve to be hurt 😔"
] |
Well if "obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:
Bundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz
11019 Berlin
Germany
But maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.
|
[] |
>
People keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference.
The source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.
Either way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of "we won't do anything unless you do." /s
I've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.
The angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections."
] |
>
If they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.
If they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.
Since it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter."
] |
>
Or maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true."
] |
>
you are so close to understand the comment above you
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany."
] |
>
I heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..
Send enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you"
] |
>
Current party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.
Their main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin.
They purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.
And what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.
Clearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.
Yes they will. Yes they are.
Know the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with."
] |
>
PiS?
More liko PoS.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this."
] |
>
or PiSS
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS."
] |
>
So much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.
I just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS"
] |
>
German gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!"
] |
>
I fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet."
] |
>
Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?
Exactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying "if you apply, we'll approve the request"
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?"
] |
>
Ah that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, "Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine."
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\""
] |
>
How difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.
Just do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\""
] |
>
Do you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?
They would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well."
] |
>
They also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!"
] |
>
Maybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they "urge" Germany?
WTF is going on with Britain?
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll."
] |
>
Maybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?"
] |
>
Germany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine."
] |
>
I hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?"
] |
>
Leopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.
Poland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).
Poland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.
There's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.
So it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.
The situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies "Made in Switzerland" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact"
] |
>
Open the floodgates
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote."
] |
>
Release the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates"
] |
>
Giv em the fakin panzers you slags!
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do."
] |
>
They need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!"
] |
>
Worth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks.
They just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet"
] |
>
Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.
What are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to."
] |
>
Ringtausch ring a Bell?
Oh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.
Literally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!"
] |
>
We need to send those thanks asap!
A lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.
As soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand."
] |
>
They can already ask for the permission.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly."
] |
>
German armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission."
] |
>
Now suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory."
] |
>
Britain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion."
] |
>
To my understanding Germany's leaders are trying to put the blame on the US saying they will allow it only if the US also permits the supply of the M1 Abrams which is our main and most advanced battle tank, not something we want to risk falling into enemy hands. Germany is counting on the US to not allow this so that they can say "Oh well, darn no Leopards. Blame them not us."
Between this, the Russian gas and oil fiasco and deepening financial ties to an openly hostile and opportunistic China its just mind boggling German leaders seem to plan on playing a leading role in a unified Europe, same goes for Frances leaders. They act less like loyal united leaders and more like fair weather friends who will ditch you or dump all the blame squarly on you if its immediately more convenient to them.
Edit: to clarify on the tank matter
The abrams is much more expensive to fuel than the leopard(insane gasoline consumption even for tanks) and its much heavier than the Leopard(making it sink into the damp terrain which would cause it to either get stuck or work harder burning even more fuel) as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far too expensive for Ukraine to fuel in the long run. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.
Its extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.",
">\n\nBritain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do."
] |
>
But when the risk for the Abrams is to high, maybe the advanced Leopard 2 should also not fall in the hands of the enemy. So I do understand that, also the US has much more tanks than Germany does. So the US should also send its tanks.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.",
">\n\nBritain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do.",
">\n\nTo my understanding Germany's leaders are trying to put the blame on the US saying they will allow it only if the US also permits the supply of the M1 Abrams which is our main and most advanced battle tank, not something we want to risk falling into enemy hands. Germany is counting on the US to not allow this so that they can say \"Oh well, darn no Leopards. Blame them not us.\"\nBetween this, the Russian gas and oil fiasco and deepening financial ties to an openly hostile and opportunistic China its just mind boggling German leaders seem to plan on playing a leading role in a unified Europe, same goes for Frances leaders. They act less like loyal united leaders and more like fair weather friends who will ditch you or dump all the blame squarly on you if its immediately more convenient to them.\nEdit: to clarify on the tank matter\nThe abrams is much more expensive to fuel than the leopard(insane gasoline consumption even for tanks) and its much heavier than the Leopard(making it sink into the damp terrain which would cause it to either get stuck or work harder burning even more fuel) as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far too expensive for Ukraine to fuel in the long run. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget."
] |
>
Small problem with that theory. The abrams is WAYYY more expensive to fuel than the leopard and its MUCH heavier than the Leopard as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far to expensive for Ukraine to fuel. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.
Its extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget. My sources are actual military tank crews who are familiar with both tanks. We are already sending however M2 Bradley's which are highly effective in cold wet environments due to their advanced optics.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.",
">\n\nBritain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do.",
">\n\nTo my understanding Germany's leaders are trying to put the blame on the US saying they will allow it only if the US also permits the supply of the M1 Abrams which is our main and most advanced battle tank, not something we want to risk falling into enemy hands. Germany is counting on the US to not allow this so that they can say \"Oh well, darn no Leopards. Blame them not us.\"\nBetween this, the Russian gas and oil fiasco and deepening financial ties to an openly hostile and opportunistic China its just mind boggling German leaders seem to plan on playing a leading role in a unified Europe, same goes for Frances leaders. They act less like loyal united leaders and more like fair weather friends who will ditch you or dump all the blame squarly on you if its immediately more convenient to them.\nEdit: to clarify on the tank matter\nThe abrams is much more expensive to fuel than the leopard(insane gasoline consumption even for tanks) and its much heavier than the Leopard(making it sink into the damp terrain which would cause it to either get stuck or work harder burning even more fuel) as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far too expensive for Ukraine to fuel in the long run. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget.",
">\n\nBut when the risk for the Abrams is to high, maybe the advanced Leopard 2 should also not fall in the hands of the enemy. So I do understand that, also the US has much more tanks than Germany does. So the US should also send its tanks."
] |
>
The Leo is probably the better tank for the environment for sure, still the ukraine would be happy to get their hands a Abrams or Leopards, the best case for them is both.
The Bradley is good, so is the Marder Germany is sending. So it is not the case Germany is sending nothing.
So my argument is, the US can not expect Germany to send MBT, when they are not doing the same.
In my opinion, Abrams and Leo2 should be in the ukraine.
|
[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.",
">\n\nBritain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do.",
">\n\nTo my understanding Germany's leaders are trying to put the blame on the US saying they will allow it only if the US also permits the supply of the M1 Abrams which is our main and most advanced battle tank, not something we want to risk falling into enemy hands. Germany is counting on the US to not allow this so that they can say \"Oh well, darn no Leopards. Blame them not us.\"\nBetween this, the Russian gas and oil fiasco and deepening financial ties to an openly hostile and opportunistic China its just mind boggling German leaders seem to plan on playing a leading role in a unified Europe, same goes for Frances leaders. They act less like loyal united leaders and more like fair weather friends who will ditch you or dump all the blame squarly on you if its immediately more convenient to them.\nEdit: to clarify on the tank matter\nThe abrams is much more expensive to fuel than the leopard(insane gasoline consumption even for tanks) and its much heavier than the Leopard(making it sink into the damp terrain which would cause it to either get stuck or work harder burning even more fuel) as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far too expensive for Ukraine to fuel in the long run. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget.",
">\n\nBut when the risk for the Abrams is to high, maybe the advanced Leopard 2 should also not fall in the hands of the enemy. So I do understand that, also the US has much more tanks than Germany does. So the US should also send its tanks.",
">\n\nSmall problem with that theory. The abrams is WAYYY more expensive to fuel than the leopard and its MUCH heavier than the Leopard as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far to expensive for Ukraine to fuel. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget. My sources are actual military tank crews who are familiar with both tanks. We are already sending however M2 Bradley's which are highly effective in cold wet environments due to their advanced optics."
] |
>
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[
"Well if \"obviously Poland is very keen to donate some Leopards\", as Mr Wallace put it, he could maybe provide the polish government with the adress to send the official request for export to. The people at the german ministry for the economy are probably very eager to work on it, if they ever actually receive anything! Just send it here:\nBundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz \n11019 Berlin \nGermany\n\nBut maybe the polish gov has run out of stamps, or misplaced the letter, because theres still no actual fucking request to export Leopard 2's, and day to day it seems more likely that this was just another PiS-stunt ahead of elections.",
">\n\nPeople keep saying that there are no export requests like they have a personal database for all official military export correspondence for Germany they can reference. \nThe source of that quote is the same German government which has made it abundantly clear in press announcements previously that they did not endorse the delivery of MBTs, and even rebuked a country for suggesting their provision without asking (Spain). There is little reason to believe they have not privately rejected or shot down any such requests, considering they had no qualms doing it publicly. And they have been caught obfuscating such things in the past during this conflict. They also publicly stated they don't care that the UK was sending Challengers, they want the US to take the initiative and send tanks (notably a goalpost shift from their previous policy of just not being first, to again avoid having to send tanks). But sure, Germany really just wants to provide them, and no one has asked! Darn shame! How convenient it aligns with current German policy on the matter though. Go figure.\nEither way, real leadership we're seeing. I'm glad the German government made all those speeches about stepping up, being a military leader for Europe, and grabbing the bull by the horns on this matter. Really ringing true with the policy of \"we won't do anything unless you do.\" /s\nI've noticed a lot of Germans sensitive about the focus and attention on Germany. Welcome to being viewed as leaders. It comes with extra accountability and criticism.\nThe angry downvotes are icing on the cake for this matter.",
">\n\nIf they officially rejected it, PiS would not waste a single breath not mentioning it.\nIf they unofficialy rejected it, PiS would submit an official request anyway so they can mention it.\nSince it has not happened, that they have not requested it is likely true.",
">\n\nOr maybe they know public pressure is the only way to actually get anything useful out of Germany.",
">\n\nyou are so close to understand the comment above you",
">\n\nI heard Poland is yet to submit the request to Germany in the first place, which would be extremely ridiculous to say the least. Don't give the Russians the time to regroup and resupply! This war is catastrophic to Ukraine and its people, and costly to a world recovering from a global pandemic..\nSend enough armor and weapons to Ukraine and let them kick those fuckin Russians back to Moscow so they can topple Putin and get it over with.",
">\n\nCurrent party in power, PiS, is gearing up to the elections. This autumn.\nTheir main political schtick is Germany bad, they in bed with Putin. \nThey purposfully auggested sending Patriot systems to Ukraine, way before it was public knowledge. They knew it was on the table and coming. They also knew Germany will say not possible at that date. They also knew that the opposition will mock their suggestion.\nAnd what system is now being delivered to Ukraine? Patriot systems.\n\nClearly they will not exploit the war in Ukraine for political gains. No one is so cynical.\n\nYes they will. Yes they are.\nKnow the We will fight corruption and clear the house of bad guys politicians? Drain the swamp and such. PiS is this.",
">\n\nPiS?\nMore liko PoS.",
">\n\nor PiSS",
">\n\nSo much information and misinformation. We hear that countries holding Leos want to send them, but aren't submitting formal requests. Then we hear that's not true. Then we hear Germany wants agreement from the US (!?), but the US has said it supports this plan. Then we hear Germany simply isn't behind this idea and gov't officials are in conflict.\nI just don't understand why friends, allies, and partners are playing these games while Ukrainians are dying. Just send the fucking tanks!",
">\n\nGerman gov has made it absolutely clear they will approve any request to send Leopard 2's to Ukraine. There simply has not been a request or anything regarding a polish delivery yet.",
">\n\nI fully believe that Germany in this case, but why not head it off and pre-emptively state that Poland can export the tanks? Is there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?",
">\n\n\nIs there a requirement that Poland has to request permission?\n\nExactly this. The law explicitly says that you can't give blanket permissions. Everything Germany can do - and did - was saying \"if you apply, we'll approve the request\"",
">\n\nAh that makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of Germany going, \"Poland has permission to export exactly x tanks to Ukraine.\"",
">\n\nHow difficult is it to formally request Stuff? Have these people ever heard of Beamte ? The most germanic of all Professions, bureaucracy.\nJust do it formally and proper, fucks sake.Somehow I suspect /u/IndeterminateYogurt to be correct about the Ramstein guess as well.",
">\n\nDo you honestly think that if Poland had tried to send a request and that request would be ignored by the german government, that PiS would ever let us hear the end of it?\nThey would be yelling from the rooftops that Germany is lying about not having received a request!",
">\n\nThey also preferably want to have guaranteed replacement tanks by NATO. So they have a few dominos to line up before they can roll.",
">\n\nMaybe Britain should urge the countries, who need a permit from Germany, to actually apply and ask for the permit first, before they \"urge\" Germany?\nWTF is going on with Britain?",
">\n\nMaybe Germany should just send some fucking tanks of their own to Ukraine.",
">\n\nGermany is one of the biggest Stores m supporters and I can assure you, tanks are being discussed. Maybe just stfu for a bit?",
">\n\nI hope it's not us swiss again who block the supplies. I'm embarrassed by that fact",
">\n\nLeopard 2 uses standard ammunition, not a problem here.\nPoland and Finland wait for Germany to grant an export license (similar to how Switzerland would have to give some for Switzerland-based supplies).\nPoland in particular is in the news every day about how Germany isn't forthcoming, while Germany said (when asked) that they never got the necessary formal request to begin with.\nThere's stuff that you just don't coordinate through random press releases, and for Germany, given its past, military matters definitely belong in that category.\nSo it's really Poland (and Finland and other Leo2 wielding countries) who are blocking progress right now.\nThe situation with Switzerland is different (closer to Austria, I believe): there's some semi-recent law that forbids you guys from granting such licenses for conflict regions. Apparently it's even questionable if Switzerland could legally ship supplies to a direct partner (e.g. Germany) in war times. The result is probably that war supplies \"Made in Switzerland\" are on the way out practically everywhere, which I understand was the goal of those promoting that vote.",
">\n\nOpen the floodgates",
">\n\nRelease the curios cats into the wild, to do what they were meant to do.",
">\n\nGiv em the fakin panzers you slags!",
">\n\nThey need to request the permission to get it. They didn't yet",
">\n\nWorth mentioning, Poland has already sent hundreds of tanks. \nThey just didnt send Leos yet. Germany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.",
">\n\n\nGermany still hasnt send their tanks to Poland like Germany agreed to.\n\nWhat are you talking about? Why are you making shit up? Explain yourself!",
">\n\nRingtausch ring a Bell?\nOh and the Gall of Germany to demand polish companies give up their production so Germans can set up shop for free to make a repair hub.\nLiterally trying to kick Poland out of its own country prodcution and repair industry and then throwing a tantrum when Poland disagreed to that ridiculous demand.",
">\n\nWe need to send those thanks asap!\nA lot of countries have those tanks ready to send to Ukraine, but before that's allowed we need Germany's permission.\nAs soon as Germany is convinced, many tanks will be shipped to Ukraine! This will turn the tide on the front lines quickly.",
">\n\nThey can already ask for the permission.",
">\n\nGerman armor is pretty powerful. Rivals Abrams, British, and french armor. It would turn 96% of Russian tanks and APC's to slag. Might cause a complete collapse of Russia's occupation across the map so fast they couldn't hold any territory.",
">\n\nNow suddenly Britain is asking for German permission. Before that they never gave a fuck about German opinion.",
">\n\nBritain doesn’t need German permission, other countries do.",
">\n\nTo my understanding Germany's leaders are trying to put the blame on the US saying they will allow it only if the US also permits the supply of the M1 Abrams which is our main and most advanced battle tank, not something we want to risk falling into enemy hands. Germany is counting on the US to not allow this so that they can say \"Oh well, darn no Leopards. Blame them not us.\"\nBetween this, the Russian gas and oil fiasco and deepening financial ties to an openly hostile and opportunistic China its just mind boggling German leaders seem to plan on playing a leading role in a unified Europe, same goes for Frances leaders. They act less like loyal united leaders and more like fair weather friends who will ditch you or dump all the blame squarly on you if its immediately more convenient to them.\nEdit: to clarify on the tank matter\nThe abrams is much more expensive to fuel than the leopard(insane gasoline consumption even for tanks) and its much heavier than the Leopard(making it sink into the damp terrain which would cause it to either get stuck or work harder burning even more fuel) as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far too expensive for Ukraine to fuel in the long run. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget.",
">\n\nBut when the risk for the Abrams is to high, maybe the advanced Leopard 2 should also not fall in the hands of the enemy. So I do understand that, also the US has much more tanks than Germany does. So the US should also send its tanks.",
">\n\nSmall problem with that theory. The abrams is WAYYY more expensive to fuel than the leopard and its MUCH heavier than the Leopard as well not to mention slower. Its unmatched in dry desert conditions but in the marshy muddy north it would be slowed to a crawl and would be far to expensive for Ukraine to fuel. It would be impractical, too costly for Ukraine to use, hindered severely by the environment and more risky to let slip into enemy hands.\nIts extremely important to understand the differences between the tanks and which one is best suited to Ukraines environment, available resources and budget. My sources are actual military tank crews who are familiar with both tanks. We are already sending however M2 Bradley's which are highly effective in cold wet environments due to their advanced optics.",
">\n\nThe Leo is probably the better tank for the environment for sure, still the ukraine would be happy to get their hands a Abrams or Leopards, the best case for them is both. \nThe Bradley is good, so is the Marder Germany is sending. So it is not the case Germany is sending nothing. \nSo my argument is, the US can not expect Germany to send MBT, when they are not doing the same. \nIn my opinion, Abrams and Leo2 should be in the ukraine."
] |
I'm a Jewish woman. Most of my Jewish friends find this to be a disgusting violation of human rights. I wish more people would stand up for Palestine. People you don't like are people too. Especially when you dislike them for stupid reasons.
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Excerpt:
The Biden administration is doubling down on its predecessor’s reckless decision to recognize Israel’s claims to Jerusalem as its capital, a break with nearly 70 years of policy. The State Department is advancing plans to erect an embassy building in Jerusalem partly on land stolen by Israel shortly after its establishment from Palestinian refugees, including American citizens.
In 2017, the Trump administration recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv in 2018. Since then, the embassy has been housed in the neighborhood of Arnona, in what had been the consulate building. In November, the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee published detailed blueprints provided by U.S. officials in 2021 for a diplomatic compound on a tract once known as the Allenby Barracks.
The majority of the Allenby Barracks site is owned by Palestinians, including parts of it by my family, whose roots in Jerusalem go back more than 1,000 years. My ancestors and many other Jerusalem families rented this land to Britain at the tail end of its rule over Palestine.
While State Department officials have not confirmed these plans publicly, they have stated that the new embassy will be in Jerusalem — which the Biden administration has affirmed is recognized by Washington as Israel’s capital. “The United States has not yet made a decision on which site to pursue,” a spokesperson told The Intercept. “A number of factors, including the history of the sites, will be part of our site selection process.”
Yet the plans submitted for the new embassy and made public by Israeli authorities clearly indicate that the project on the Allenby Barracks site is moving ahead.
Our title to this land is clear. Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, recently unearthed the rental contracts from Israeli state archives, which document how Britain signed lease agreements to rent this site from our family and others through 1948. But after Israel’s founding, the government took over that property and for several years the border police used it as a station. Since then, it has sat vacant.
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[
"I'm a Jewish woman. Most of my Jewish friends find this to be a disgusting violation of human rights. I wish more people would stand up for Palestine. People you don't like are people too. Especially when you dislike them for stupid reasons."
] |
>
Like the U.S. political establishment cares what Palestinians think, they never have in the past.
|
[
"I'm a Jewish woman. Most of my Jewish friends find this to be a disgusting violation of human rights. I wish more people would stand up for Palestine. People you don't like are people too. Especially when you dislike them for stupid reasons.",
">\n\nExcerpt:\n\nThe Biden administration is doubling down on its predecessor’s reckless decision to recognize Israel’s claims to Jerusalem as its capital, a break with nearly 70 years of policy. The State Department is advancing plans to erect an embassy building in Jerusalem partly on land stolen by Israel shortly after its establishment from Palestinian refugees, including American citizens.\nIn 2017, the Trump administration recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv in 2018. Since then, the embassy has been housed in the neighborhood of Arnona, in what had been the consulate building. In November, the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee published detailed blueprints provided by U.S. officials in 2021 for a diplomatic compound on a tract once known as the Allenby Barracks.\nThe majority of the Allenby Barracks site is owned by Palestinians, including parts of it by my family, whose roots in Jerusalem go back more than 1,000 years. My ancestors and many other Jerusalem families rented this land to Britain at the tail end of its rule over Palestine.\nWhile State Department officials have not confirmed these plans publicly, they have stated that the new embassy will be in Jerusalem — which the Biden administration has affirmed is recognized by Washington as Israel’s capital. “The United States has not yet made a decision on which site to pursue,” a spokesperson told The Intercept. “A number of factors, including the history of the sites, will be part of our site selection process.”\nYet the plans submitted for the new embassy and made public by Israeli authorities clearly indicate that the project on the Allenby Barracks site is moving ahead.\nOur title to this land is clear. Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, recently unearthed the rental contracts from Israeli state archives, which document how Britain signed lease agreements to rent this site from our family and others through 1948. But after Israel’s founding, the government took over that property and for several years the border police used it as a station. Since then, it has sat vacant."
] |
>
This year is the 75th since the nakba, meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic. The nakba refers to the imposition of Israel’s rule in 1948 over more than three-quarters of Palestine against the wishes of the majority-Palestinian inhabitants, hundreds of thousands of whom it drove out of their homes or forced to flee.
|
[
"I'm a Jewish woman. Most of my Jewish friends find this to be a disgusting violation of human rights. I wish more people would stand up for Palestine. People you don't like are people too. Especially when you dislike them for stupid reasons.",
">\n\nExcerpt:\n\nThe Biden administration is doubling down on its predecessor’s reckless decision to recognize Israel’s claims to Jerusalem as its capital, a break with nearly 70 years of policy. The State Department is advancing plans to erect an embassy building in Jerusalem partly on land stolen by Israel shortly after its establishment from Palestinian refugees, including American citizens.\nIn 2017, the Trump administration recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv in 2018. Since then, the embassy has been housed in the neighborhood of Arnona, in what had been the consulate building. In November, the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee published detailed blueprints provided by U.S. officials in 2021 for a diplomatic compound on a tract once known as the Allenby Barracks.\nThe majority of the Allenby Barracks site is owned by Palestinians, including parts of it by my family, whose roots in Jerusalem go back more than 1,000 years. My ancestors and many other Jerusalem families rented this land to Britain at the tail end of its rule over Palestine.\nWhile State Department officials have not confirmed these plans publicly, they have stated that the new embassy will be in Jerusalem — which the Biden administration has affirmed is recognized by Washington as Israel’s capital. “The United States has not yet made a decision on which site to pursue,” a spokesperson told The Intercept. “A number of factors, including the history of the sites, will be part of our site selection process.”\nYet the plans submitted for the new embassy and made public by Israeli authorities clearly indicate that the project on the Allenby Barracks site is moving ahead.\nOur title to this land is clear. Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, recently unearthed the rental contracts from Israeli state archives, which document how Britain signed lease agreements to rent this site from our family and others through 1948. But after Israel’s founding, the government took over that property and for several years the border police used it as a station. Since then, it has sat vacant.",
">\n\nLike the U.S. political establishment cares what Palestinians think, they never have in the past."
] |
>
|
[
"I'm a Jewish woman. Most of my Jewish friends find this to be a disgusting violation of human rights. I wish more people would stand up for Palestine. People you don't like are people too. Especially when you dislike them for stupid reasons.",
">\n\nExcerpt:\n\nThe Biden administration is doubling down on its predecessor’s reckless decision to recognize Israel’s claims to Jerusalem as its capital, a break with nearly 70 years of policy. The State Department is advancing plans to erect an embassy building in Jerusalem partly on land stolen by Israel shortly after its establishment from Palestinian refugees, including American citizens.\nIn 2017, the Trump administration recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv in 2018. Since then, the embassy has been housed in the neighborhood of Arnona, in what had been the consulate building. In November, the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee published detailed blueprints provided by U.S. officials in 2021 for a diplomatic compound on a tract once known as the Allenby Barracks.\nThe majority of the Allenby Barracks site is owned by Palestinians, including parts of it by my family, whose roots in Jerusalem go back more than 1,000 years. My ancestors and many other Jerusalem families rented this land to Britain at the tail end of its rule over Palestine.\nWhile State Department officials have not confirmed these plans publicly, they have stated that the new embassy will be in Jerusalem — which the Biden administration has affirmed is recognized by Washington as Israel’s capital. “The United States has not yet made a decision on which site to pursue,” a spokesperson told The Intercept. “A number of factors, including the history of the sites, will be part of our site selection process.”\nYet the plans submitted for the new embassy and made public by Israeli authorities clearly indicate that the project on the Allenby Barracks site is moving ahead.\nOur title to this land is clear. Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, recently unearthed the rental contracts from Israeli state archives, which document how Britain signed lease agreements to rent this site from our family and others through 1948. But after Israel’s founding, the government took over that property and for several years the border police used it as a station. Since then, it has sat vacant.",
">\n\nLike the U.S. political establishment cares what Palestinians think, they never have in the past.",
">\n\nThis year is the 75th since the nakba, meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic. The nakba refers to the imposition of Israel’s rule in 1948 over more than three-quarters of Palestine against the wishes of the majority-Palestinian inhabitants, hundreds of thousands of whom it drove out of their homes or forced to flee."
] |
The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)
And as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.
In response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.
This shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.
And lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.
|
[] |
>
Why would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association."
] |
>
Why would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?"
] |
>
Agreed - this is by design.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible."
] |
>
Because in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design."
] |
>
Fuck Florida
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway."
] |
>
yep.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida"
] |
>
The schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep."
] |
>
Florida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be."
] |
>
This is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up."
] |
>
Phase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs."
] |
>
If Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded."
] |
>
Cherry picking Florida is nice but I can tell you this is a problem nationwide and apparently nobody is acknowledging it anywhere. I guess we'll just let AI teach. Hell probably better since they won't push political bias.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.",
">\n\nIf Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?"
] |
>
Educators have been telling people there’s a teacher shortage for years. This has not been a secret. Teachers are blamed for every single issue in a child’s life. Plus, pay is generally bad and no politicians seem to care because teacher pay has always been a joke. I’ve been in public education for nearly 20 years and I love my job. I feel like I make a difference but I worry about the future of the profession. When I came out of college, there was a surplus of teachers. I moved out of state because I couldn’t find a job in my home state in the Midwest. I moved back to my state a few years back and even the most affluent districts are struggling to find staff for positions that normally had hundreds of applicants. Who would enter this profession to be attacked by politicians?
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.",
">\n\nIf Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?",
">\n\nCherry picking Florida is nice but I can tell you this is a problem nationwide and apparently nobody is acknowledging it anywhere. I guess we'll just let AI teach. Hell probably better since they won't push political bias."
] |
>
Florida leaders: It's only a problem if you're not us.
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.",
">\n\nIf Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?",
">\n\nCherry picking Florida is nice but I can tell you this is a problem nationwide and apparently nobody is acknowledging it anywhere. I guess we'll just let AI teach. Hell probably better since they won't push political bias.",
">\n\nEducators have been telling people there’s a teacher shortage for years. This has not been a secret. Teachers are blamed for every single issue in a child’s life. Plus, pay is generally bad and no politicians seem to care because teacher pay has always been a joke. I’ve been in public education for nearly 20 years and I love my job. I feel like I make a difference but I worry about the future of the profession. When I came out of college, there was a surplus of teachers. I moved out of state because I couldn’t find a job in my home state in the Midwest. I moved back to my state a few years back and even the most affluent districts are struggling to find staff for positions that normally had hundreds of applicants. Who would enter this profession to be attacked by politicians?"
] |
>
Soon the magas will have the electorate they want
|
[
"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.",
">\n\nIf Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?",
">\n\nCherry picking Florida is nice but I can tell you this is a problem nationwide and apparently nobody is acknowledging it anywhere. I guess we'll just let AI teach. Hell probably better since they won't push political bias.",
">\n\nEducators have been telling people there’s a teacher shortage for years. This has not been a secret. Teachers are blamed for every single issue in a child’s life. Plus, pay is generally bad and no politicians seem to care because teacher pay has always been a joke. I’ve been in public education for nearly 20 years and I love my job. I feel like I make a difference but I worry about the future of the profession. When I came out of college, there was a surplus of teachers. I moved out of state because I couldn’t find a job in my home state in the Midwest. I moved back to my state a few years back and even the most affluent districts are struggling to find staff for positions that normally had hundreds of applicants. Who would enter this profession to be attacked by politicians?",
">\n\nFlorida leaders: It's only a problem if you're not us."
] |
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